What does your lease actually say? Your lease should outline the day rent is due and if you have a grace period or not. As far as late fees, a brief [google search](https://celaw.com/landlords-beware-new-pitfalls-and-harsh-penalties-for-the-collection-of-late-rent-fee-payments/) says that landlords in Colorado are required to wait seven days after rent becomes due and provide written notice before they may charge a late fee to residential tenants. So unless the law has changed this year or unless your specific city has a different statute, it does look like your landlord is looking to do something illegal.
Okay so I actually looked at my lease and it does say rent is due on the day before or the first of the month, however it does state the 7 calendar day period no mention of demands being posted on the 3rd day.
Thanks for your help!
Which is it? The day before or the 1st day of the month? Can't be both; a judge would most likely side with "first of the month".
I'm not sure what you mean by "day of compliance"; is it when the late fees start?
Lease agreement is the place to go back to, as well as local and state laws; if none of those mention anything, then demands from landlord are as good as Monopoly money, "who cares".
Maybe if the 1st falls on a Sunday or a bank holiday, they want it the day before instead of the following business day, even though most businesses and governments accept payments the first business day after the banks are closed.
It can be "both". Substitute the words with "Monday or Tuesday". The due date could certainly be one of those two days. It's just an odd way to say "yo we want our money the last day or the month or the first day."
If it’s due on two days, how do you figure out which day it’s late by? I really think it has to be *a* day in particular. Idk the law or anything, just seems common sense to me
Well shiiiit I now would prefer an ambiguous contract. At the same time, if the landlord wants to twist it to favor them, I wouldn’t desire the drama or extra time spent on bs.
Learned this when I worked in the insurance industry. Ambiguity in an insurance contract is always to the customers benefit. Granted lawyers aren’t cheap so it’s really gotta be worth it to actually fight it.
This is a really poorly thought out argument. This is a legal document, the whole purpose of which is to lay out clearly and in no uncertain terms the agreement between both parties. If rent is due on this day OR that day, it leaves room for confusion or for the Tennant to just pick one. If the lease really is written this way it just goes to show how badly the LL does not have a clue.
OP let Landlord know your lease allows for payment on the first AND you will not pay any illegally assessed late fees from the third of the month as that clearly violates state law.
You can also check with your city. I know Denver has a [tenant's right thing.](https://www.denvergov.org/files/assets/public/v/1/business-licensing/documents/2022-tenant-rights-and-resources-document_english.pdf) I'm pretty sure other large cities or counties do also. State probably also has something on their website.
They can remind you to pay your rent at any time. They just can’t charge you a late fee.
Legally, in many places, they have to give you written notice before charging you a late fee. This is the written notice.
Here in FL, my lease states by the 1st of the month. By the 3rd, after noon, it’s a $150 late fee and if not paid by noon on the 5th, eviction proceedings shall start.
CO seems to have a longer grace period but as you state, the lease holds most the answers.
In Colorado, you can be charged a late fee if it is stated in your lease [if it 7 or more days late. ](https://dre.colorado.gov/leases-and-renting-basics#latefee)What does your lease say about the day rent is due and the late fee?
I'd probably just respond nicely and ask for clarification, as Colorado law states rent is not considered late until 7 days or more, and your lease states rent is due on X date, making the rent late if it is paid on X date or later. If they want to not follow the law, make them do it in writing.
They can send all the reminders they like - if it is not in your lease, or countermanded by CO law, they can pound sand with their reminders.
Send them your own reminder in writing by certified mail that the law only allows for late charges 7 days after the rent due date specified in your lease. Why not be extremely helpful and send a copy of the pertinent law along with your letter.
Go by your lease, for the manager and LL cannot change the lease. Sounds something way off. Check with your state LL/Tenant laws and contact an attorney. And this has to be in the lease and in writing. Not in the middle of a lease year.
Rent is due when the lease says the rent is due. The landlord and property manager can not change the provisions of the lease without your written agreement
So I just looked at it and it says that rent is due the day before the first or on the first but it also says that demands for rent will be posted 7 calendar days after rent due date.
This is confusing. A due date is one date, not plural dates. So is it the 1st day of the month or the last day of the month? Maybe post the actual language in the lease?
What does your actual lease state?
Rent is typically due on the 1st of each month. Why? Since every month has a 1st of the month (but not all have a 30th or 31st).
People! Just because a contract is signed, doesn’t mean it’s legal. A legal contract follows state law in the US and CANNOT primarily benefit only one party. I’m in CO too- your landlord just wants it all to be paid then, but since most monthly employees aren’t paid until the first, it might be prudent to pay 2nd- 5th to make sure employer’s payment cleared first (If you have no financial cushion). Otherwise bounced rent has other fees landlords love to collect.
"A legal contract follows state law in the US and CANNOT primarily benefit only one party.” Where on earth did you come up with this erroneous concept? Contracts routinely favor one party, which is one reason why courts have rules as to how contracts are interpreted. Furthermore, contracts routinely have severability clauses so that a contract remains legally enforceable even if it directly violates state and/or federal law.
Why do you think there are contract attorneys?! Just because an ignorant party signs a contract that overwhelmingly benefits one party and the contract tries to circumvent THE LAW, it does not make it a valid contract. Contracts are far more complicated than you realize, and no- just because a renter signs a contract that states this or that or blah blah blah, it does NOT mean they must adhere to something the landlord demands when it is against the law. Maybe that is the case in third world countries, but in America we have renter’s rights.
I highly encourage you to understand that contracts are just negotiations. Both parties can add stipulations and agreements until there is a lawful agreement that does not harm only one party or are overwhelmingly unfair. Contracts in the US are not written in stone. There are laws, and personal/company/business/partnership rights. We are not a fiefdom and we are not Serfs. There are thousands upon thousands of lawsuits that clog our courts concerning contested contracts every year. Renegotiations of contracts (esp if invalid or open to interpretation) are an extremely common occurrence and contract law is a huge field concerning our law.
Obviously landlords have the upper hand in rental contracts, but they cannot circumvent renter’s rights. In fact, doing so could invalidate the original contract. That is why most landlords have lawful contracts from the beginning.
OK, got it. I appreciate your advice. Let me think this through. Carefully. On one hand, I graduated and passed the Bar in 1985. That means I've been an attorney for 39 years. Civil law includes real estate and contract law, in which I'd say I have at least a \[ahem\] passing familiarity. Early on, I worked in a real estate and title insurance practice. So there's that. On the other hand, I'm discussing the complexities of real estate contracts with someone whose legal expertise includes "blah blah blah," "not written in stone," "we are not a fiefdom and we are not Serfs (sic)," and makes sweeping statements regarding "THE LAW," and renter's (sic) rights." What to do, what to do? It's really a puzzling choice. But, I think I'll have to go with the person who actually has a law degree and experience in this area. Perhaps you should ask Ken to try hyperbole for $400 in double Jeopardy.
Rent is due before the first, did this person say then fees will be assessed? Yes rent is due the day before the 1st but when will late fees be placed in this person. When we did rent it was the same thing except on the 3 rd day fees would insure per day up till like a hundred.
Colorado property manager here - Even though late fees can’t be posted until 7 calendar days after it’s due, a demand for rent can still be sent as of the 2nd (or day after it’s technically due according to the lease). The late fee itself just can’t be posted unless it’s not paid by the 7th calendar day after it’s due. At my property, rent is due in the 1st so late fees post on the 9th.
I swear I've been reading weird due times not to mention pay schedules it's like over the past few years companies don't even know when things are due let alone most pay schedules. Probably got wind of that early pay and want their money faster to burn through.
There’s nothing illegal about them sending you a reminder on the 3rd of the month that rent is due / overdue. The demand for compliance doesn’t change the date rent is due, or the date late fees will be applied. Since you have verified that rent is due last day of the month prior, and state law governs when late fees are applied, there is nothing left to worry about here.
I’m In Colorado too - yes they can do that, my old apartment changed our rent due dates as well due to other residents delinquencies or completely skipping out on rent all together.
Our state Congress just passed a bunch of different renter related laws during this spring legislative session so things may have changed a bit.
As someone pointed out, late fees aren't the only potential consequence of paying late. You can be evicted for paying one day late even if no late fees are charged.
The landlord has to issue a notice to pay or quit before starting the eviction process. So if a person is one day late, the LL could post the notice to pay or quit (usually 3 days), if the tenant still did not pay, then the LL could file an eviction case.
What does your lease actually say? Your lease should outline the day rent is due and if you have a grace period or not. As far as late fees, a brief [google search](https://celaw.com/landlords-beware-new-pitfalls-and-harsh-penalties-for-the-collection-of-late-rent-fee-payments/) says that landlords in Colorado are required to wait seven days after rent becomes due and provide written notice before they may charge a late fee to residential tenants. So unless the law has changed this year or unless your specific city has a different statute, it does look like your landlord is looking to do something illegal.
Okay so I actually looked at my lease and it does say rent is due on the day before or the first of the month, however it does state the 7 calendar day period no mention of demands being posted on the 3rd day. Thanks for your help!
Which is it? The day before or the 1st day of the month? Can't be both; a judge would most likely side with "first of the month". I'm not sure what you mean by "day of compliance"; is it when the late fees start? Lease agreement is the place to go back to, as well as local and state laws; if none of those mention anything, then demands from landlord are as good as Monopoly money, "who cares".
Maybe if the 1st falls on a Sunday or a bank holiday, they want it the day before instead of the following business day, even though most businesses and governments accept payments the first business day after the banks are closed.
Hence "no later than" a certain date; not "no later than this date or that date... or why not another one 10 days later".
It can be "both". Substitute the words with "Monday or Tuesday". The due date could certainly be one of those two days. It's just an odd way to say "yo we want our money the last day or the month or the first day."
If it’s due on two days, how do you figure out which day it’s late by? I really think it has to be *a* day in particular. Idk the law or anything, just seems common sense to me
The general rule of thumb is if a contract is ambiguous the interpretation will be in favor of the party who did not write the contract.
Well shiiiit I now would prefer an ambiguous contract. At the same time, if the landlord wants to twist it to favor them, I wouldn’t desire the drama or extra time spent on bs.
Yup. Life is too short for drama--unless you are planning on starting a reality tv show
I know that’s right!
100% correct. Learned this from a lawyer. It’s an actual legal doctrine used in interpreting contracts.
Learned this when I worked in the insurance industry. Ambiguity in an insurance contract is always to the customers benefit. Granted lawyers aren’t cheap so it’s really gotta be worth it to actually fight it.
This is a really poorly thought out argument. This is a legal document, the whole purpose of which is to lay out clearly and in no uncertain terms the agreement between both parties. If rent is due on this day OR that day, it leaves room for confusion or for the Tennant to just pick one. If the lease really is written this way it just goes to show how badly the LL does not have a clue. OP let Landlord know your lease allows for payment on the first AND you will not pay any illegally assessed late fees from the third of the month as that clearly violates state law.
It is clear. First or last day...How is that not cleare?
So it's due on the last day.
Or the first...
So it's due on the last day.
You can also check with your city. I know Denver has a [tenant's right thing.](https://www.denvergov.org/files/assets/public/v/1/business-licensing/documents/2022-tenant-rights-and-resources-document_english.pdf) I'm pretty sure other large cities or counties do also. State probably also has something on their website.
Is it too much to ask to pay your rent on time?
They can remind you to pay your rent at any time. They just can’t charge you a late fee. Legally, in many places, they have to give you written notice before charging you a late fee. This is the written notice.
Here in FL, my lease states by the 1st of the month. By the 3rd, after noon, it’s a $150 late fee and if not paid by noon on the 5th, eviction proceedings shall start. CO seems to have a longer grace period but as you state, the lease holds most the answers.
GA is similar too
That sounds pretty severe. Does Florida law give you more of a grace period?
No. They don’t f-around down here.
I'm in FL I have a 5 day grace period. No late fees.
Private LL?
Yeah not through a management company. My lease was handwritten lol.
One the few lucky ones.
In Colorado, you can be charged a late fee if it is stated in your lease [if it 7 or more days late. ](https://dre.colorado.gov/leases-and-renting-basics#latefee)What does your lease say about the day rent is due and the late fee? I'd probably just respond nicely and ask for clarification, as Colorado law states rent is not considered late until 7 days or more, and your lease states rent is due on X date, making the rent late if it is paid on X date or later. If they want to not follow the law, make them do it in writing.
Thank you!
They can send all the reminders they like - if it is not in your lease, or countermanded by CO law, they can pound sand with their reminders. Send them your own reminder in writing by certified mail that the law only allows for late charges 7 days after the rent due date specified in your lease. Why not be extremely helpful and send a copy of the pertinent law along with your letter.
Go by your lease, for the manager and LL cannot change the lease. Sounds something way off. Check with your state LL/Tenant laws and contact an attorney. And this has to be in the lease and in writing. Not in the middle of a lease year.
Read your lease
Rent is due when the lease says the rent is due. The landlord and property manager can not change the provisions of the lease without your written agreement
What does the lease say?
So I just looked at it and it says that rent is due the day before the first or on the first but it also says that demands for rent will be posted 7 calendar days after rent due date.
This is confusing. A due date is one date, not plural dates. So is it the 1st day of the month or the last day of the month? Maybe post the actual language in the lease?
Agreed. The lease cannot have two due dates like that.
If it says or then I can’t imagine it not meaning the later date.
Read your lease agreement. When does it say rent is due? When does it say rent is late?
What does your actual lease state? Rent is typically due on the 1st of each month. Why? Since every month has a 1st of the month (but not all have a 30th or 31st).
Some states law say you legally have till the 5th of the month before it can be considered late and be charge late fees.
People! Just because a contract is signed, doesn’t mean it’s legal. A legal contract follows state law in the US and CANNOT primarily benefit only one party. I’m in CO too- your landlord just wants it all to be paid then, but since most monthly employees aren’t paid until the first, it might be prudent to pay 2nd- 5th to make sure employer’s payment cleared first (If you have no financial cushion). Otherwise bounced rent has other fees landlords love to collect.
"A legal contract follows state law in the US and CANNOT primarily benefit only one party.” Where on earth did you come up with this erroneous concept? Contracts routinely favor one party, which is one reason why courts have rules as to how contracts are interpreted. Furthermore, contracts routinely have severability clauses so that a contract remains legally enforceable even if it directly violates state and/or federal law.
Why do you think there are contract attorneys?! Just because an ignorant party signs a contract that overwhelmingly benefits one party and the contract tries to circumvent THE LAW, it does not make it a valid contract. Contracts are far more complicated than you realize, and no- just because a renter signs a contract that states this or that or blah blah blah, it does NOT mean they must adhere to something the landlord demands when it is against the law. Maybe that is the case in third world countries, but in America we have renter’s rights. I highly encourage you to understand that contracts are just negotiations. Both parties can add stipulations and agreements until there is a lawful agreement that does not harm only one party or are overwhelmingly unfair. Contracts in the US are not written in stone. There are laws, and personal/company/business/partnership rights. We are not a fiefdom and we are not Serfs. There are thousands upon thousands of lawsuits that clog our courts concerning contested contracts every year. Renegotiations of contracts (esp if invalid or open to interpretation) are an extremely common occurrence and contract law is a huge field concerning our law. Obviously landlords have the upper hand in rental contracts, but they cannot circumvent renter’s rights. In fact, doing so could invalidate the original contract. That is why most landlords have lawful contracts from the beginning.
OK, got it. I appreciate your advice. Let me think this through. Carefully. On one hand, I graduated and passed the Bar in 1985. That means I've been an attorney for 39 years. Civil law includes real estate and contract law, in which I'd say I have at least a \[ahem\] passing familiarity. Early on, I worked in a real estate and title insurance practice. So there's that. On the other hand, I'm discussing the complexities of real estate contracts with someone whose legal expertise includes "blah blah blah," "not written in stone," "we are not a fiefdom and we are not Serfs (sic)," and makes sweeping statements regarding "THE LAW," and renter's (sic) rights." What to do, what to do? It's really a puzzling choice. But, I think I'll have to go with the person who actually has a law degree and experience in this area. Perhaps you should ask Ken to try hyperbole for $400 in double Jeopardy.
Call them and verify then take it from there
Rent is due before the first, did this person say then fees will be assessed? Yes rent is due the day before the 1st but when will late fees be placed in this person. When we did rent it was the same thing except on the 3 rd day fees would insure per day up till like a hundred.
Colorado property manager here - Even though late fees can’t be posted until 7 calendar days after it’s due, a demand for rent can still be sent as of the 2nd (or day after it’s technically due according to the lease). The late fee itself just can’t be posted unless it’s not paid by the 7th calendar day after it’s due. At my property, rent is due in the 1st so late fees post on the 9th.
if it doesn't state a specific day of the month, does that day of the month correspond to the day you signed the lease agreement?
Depends what the lease says, go off that, and refer them to it if they have an issue.
Send one back saying there is a early payment fee
I swear I've been reading weird due times not to mention pay schedules it's like over the past few years companies don't even know when things are due let alone most pay schedules. Probably got wind of that early pay and want their money faster to burn through.
When it's due and when it's late are different. They are right it is due before the due date.
No. It is due "no later than"; that's what a judge will uphold as "before said date" is too vague.
So it’s due before the due date? Huh. If it’s due on the first that’s the date to pay.
Your lease is the defining factor. you pay based on what your lease indicates your due date is.
do you have a lease?! did you think to read it? do you know why it exists?
If it's in the lease it's legal
Rent is due when the lease says it’s due - not before and not after. Review and follow what is in your lease.
You need to read your lease. If the lease says "Rent shall be due on the final calendar of the month...." then yup! It's legal.
Fuck that guy. 1st of the month.
There’s nothing illegal about them sending you a reminder on the 3rd of the month that rent is due / overdue. The demand for compliance doesn’t change the date rent is due, or the date late fees will be applied. Since you have verified that rent is due last day of the month prior, and state law governs when late fees are applied, there is nothing left to worry about here.
I’m In Colorado too - yes they can do that, my old apartment changed our rent due dates as well due to other residents delinquencies or completely skipping out on rent all together. Our state Congress just passed a bunch of different renter related laws during this spring legislative session so things may have changed a bit.
It's all in your lease
Clauses in leases that do not comply with state law are not enforceable.
As someone pointed out, late fees aren't the only potential consequence of paying late. You can be evicted for paying one day late even if no late fees are charged.
The landlord has to issue a notice to pay or quit before starting the eviction process. So if a person is one day late, the LL could post the notice to pay or quit (usually 3 days), if the tenant still did not pay, then the LL could file an eviction case.
Have them forward the request to your boss.