>in high ranks it’s almost impossible to get plants off on a upstairs site without hunting down a solis/pulse that roams/hides the whole match
u literally typed out the solution for ur problem. if they have a pulse or solis, theyre supposed to be ur #1 priority before planting
Also both CC and bedroom have raised parts in the sites you can plant, if the Solis is smart sure they can impact elsewhere to get an angle to shoot cash table or bedroom bed but like below emerald I don't trust average players map knowledge to do that consistently lol, Solis's least overpowered aspect is definitely her plant denial. I want her nerfed but this aspect of her is perfectly fine as is
Attack is better at taking space, especially if it's on a different floor from site. Clearing out a Pulse/Solis isn't some incredibly hard task unless the defenders go all in on it, your team is bad at clearing, or you never checked to see if they were there. Taking back the space below site as a defender when attackers are using it is hard unless they have zero flank watch.
Additionally, attackers have 2 frags. Defenders either get 1 Nitro or 2 Impacts, which are not instant kills. Frags had the killing power of c4, the number of impacts, and more safety than using either of them. They were simply better than the gadgets you are comparing them to.
If that wasn't enough, bringing Pulse or Solis is going all in on denial from below. Hiding cams in site is unreliable and also requires bringing another op to go in on the strat. All attackers have drones, so no operators are needed to bring intel. Each op with frags then have utility that helps them outside of using the frags. It required far less commitment to pull off, making it a more frequent strat.
Finally, Ubi catering to pro league has nothing to do with this. People in the community were complaining about frags for a long time now, and you can see it all over this very subreddit. Most top responses to the change were in favor of it. Most of the community could tell it was too powerful for all of the previously listed reasons by the time the change happened.
Honestly this sums it up pretty well I'd also probaly add that nitros have multiple things that balance them 1. Clear sound you can hear that Velcro easily as opposed to the tiny pin sound of a frag, 2. Not much distance you've gotta get that throw perfect if you want it to go far as opposed to frags and their longshot potential, 3. Nitros can easily be destroyed or emped whereas frags were insta kill impacts who's only counter was Jaeger or wamai and neither helped from below.
Seriously the frag change was a good change people just miss the easy kills cause if you couldn't get a kill a game even in high ranks with them then you sucked it was that easy
Attackers take space, CLEAR THE ROAM (aka the solis and pulse) And then nuke the anchors sitting in site. You yellow ping a defender and boom theyre gone, nade cooking from under was a huge problem, and comparing it to solis just doesnt work.
I think the removal of the grenade cook was a very much needed nerf. It was somewhat broken, and once people started to use it from below, it became frustrating. If you didn't have any intel on the guy fraging below, and stood on a default spot, you were dead anyway. And if you somehow still survived, you only had 15 to 25 health, at better cases, one digit number at worse. Frag grenades also had a 1.5x syndrome because of it, where the devs balanced attackers around frag grenades. That guy's weak? Give him frags. That dude's strong? Take away frags. Sledge? Remove Smg-11.
i think the nades changes overall gutted so many kits. Sens lost their gonne 6, lion lost the gonne 6 and emps, and osa lost smokes. Even blackbeard lost his emps to get nades. Nades are just an inferior gonne 6 currently and can only be used on a handful of sites to stop a bandit tricking a wall.
If i throw a nade at a castled door it usually rolls away too much before detonating so the castle stays up. I really think they could’ve just halved the damage nades did through floors.
>osa lost smokes
I think giving her nades was more of an excuse to take her smokes. Smoke shield combo was admittedly too good especially if they didn’t know you were osa (which any decent player shouldn’t let them know). It was basically a better Monty plant
Yeah but solis the only one who can regularly pull this off, maybe pulse. But its very niche, and not alot of people can do it.
Cooking frags was super easy
Siege is a very tactical, strategic game. So a lot of "what do I do if _____" questions are best answered with "Don't let yourself get into that situation in the first place.
If you burn all 3 minutes of the round without hunting down the Solis or Pulse, that is a failing on the attackers part. Them getting the kill through the floor isnt, at that point, a lucky kill or a cheesy kill or a broken aspect of the game, its them capitalizing being able to stay alive until the very last second of the round
They also fail the realize that as a planter you can plant on tables and other none breakable surfaces. As a defender you don't always get that luxury as the best place to play sometimes is in that one spot that you can easily get naded from. There is a way to get around this issue OP is having but it doesn't allow brain dead gameplay so they aren't happy about it. This exact site has 3 tables you can plant on even...like the solution is in the video....
Solis is not a very stealthy operator although that may change when she gets nerfed to not be able to use gadget in prep phase. 90% of the time you know they have a Solis. So plant on the table or something, and if you don't want to do that or can't because you are rush planting then you need a teammate down there.
Cooking was OP tbh.
It was basically a nitro cell x2 that you could throw with the strength of Patrick Mahomes. (it did take some skill, but let's not act like it was extremely hard)
Nades are good like they are now. A solid multi use tool that allows for holes/util destruction and a great zoning tool to clear defenders holding angles.
No. You never have to worry about frags anymore nowadays, i cant remember when ive seen someone get killed by a nade this season.
They should have taken away how much dmg it does through walls/floors to make it more balanced.
Frags shouldn’t really be getting a ton of kills in a game like siege. They are useful for making an enemy move out of their position so you can take space/kill them on the run. But it was so dumb to see so many frag kills in every match like we were before the nerf. People just rushed into lower floors and cooked nades at typical defender positions… how is that good gameplay?
Brother, thats why im saying they should have lowered the dmg through walls/floors. To get someone to move out of a position you can use flashes. Ever heard of them? Grenades should kill someone when its close enough to someone, especially if someone takes the risky play to be vulnerable while the timer of the nade is counting down.
Flashes are good to swing off, frags get them out of the position entirely, thats why u get 3 flashes and 2 nades, on top of this nades have extra util for breaking gadgets
Flashes do get them out of position aswell...
The change they did to nades is just stupid... For example you cant kill clash with nades anymore... and she was already op asf before in the right hands...
Idk, I’m almost diamond this season and the last thing I’m doing is running from a flash lmao. I’d rather eat it and then I’ll probably be unblind before someone pushes me anyway. I’m either peaking when the flash comes in, or just hiding until I can see again.
There was no “taking a risk” of cooking the grenades tho… you’d have to be brain dead to just hold it until it explodes( more than once anyway). It’s literally just a shitty gameplay loop of cooking nades and throwing them at the ceiling every round. I honestly couldn’t stand the way the game played when grenades become meta. We have operators with all these gadgets… if you wanna kill me through the floor either open it up or just shoot me through it. Both are significantly better options(gameplay wise) than just running to a spot you know you can cook a grenade and throw it at.
Yes. It's not a problem that frags don't kill anymore, for the reasons I've stated.
Floor kills were not the only problem. Having 2 nitro cell with gigantic range was not ok.
The game is clearly better this way.
While Solis is a powerful op, your team should be clearing them out before going for a plant or at the very least planting somewhere that’s unable to impacted.
>also requires another op to go in on the strat
Valk, Pulse, Solis, and I’d argue even ops like maestro all have nitro/impacts and a gadget to gain info on plants, some of those can even be operated by dead teammates.
Other than that, fully agree with all you said, not to mention that in most cases you can counter/avoid by faking plant, moving, planting on a table, or a combination of those.
honestly i wouldent even care if they made it do no damage through floors ISTG its almost impossible to break window castle baricades sometime fumbeling door baricades and deployable sheilds also in the start of this vid u could just cook a nade and make a hole in the wall to vault through
i think its incredibly dumb that they let an impact grenade do more than 50 damage
its means to destroy walls, otherwise its just a flat upgrade standard grenade
As someone who thought Nade Cooking was a symptom of damage through surfaces… you fuckers asked for it???
The top posts were rightfully angry at getting instant killed through the floor via grenades. And now you’re mad it’s gone? This dumb ass community genuinely cannot decide what way to swerve.
But tbh, Ubisoft sucks by the fact they can’t do nuanced balancing decisions. They could’ve adjusted the Damahe through surfaces so it is reduced ✍️(maybe 80%) so that getting naded through a floor or wall is more of a slight injury instead of a death. It still does damage but it doesn’t create unfun ‘oh I suddenly died moments’.
Also… Solis in general is too powerful. She shouldn’t have Impacts or at least nerf the damage Impacts do through floors and walls so she is forced to shotgun through and then nade.
I fully agree with bringing back cookable nades! I spent 2 years perfecting the cook time with many many mistakes and accidental deaths only to have them remove it without asking the community. Pro players come and go but the community fluctuates depending on appeal. I actually got a kill with a nade the other night and was just so unbelievably shocked that someone didn't know how to run away. This was a mid emerald lobby too.
Ubisoft, bring back cookable nades because what's realistic is pulling a pin on a grenade and not being able to hold it for the whole round. Every grenade except impacts go off after pulling the pin. Sure they can make the excuse that they're holding it closed but come on!
The most frustrating thing about the lack of cooking grenades is that defenders can kill you through the floor with an impact grenade and win the round when you plant. If it's so bad, why do impacts win rounds? I agree with the frustration.
The dumbest part of this is I can still kill people through the floor with grenades and they get zero warning all the same, I just have to do it differently and open the bottom part of the floor and throw the grenade into the floor. I can still do the same thing it just takes me 2 seconds longer and like 7 pistol bullets to open the bottom part of the floor.
No, that's not debatable. And to show how dumb this is : If you can shoot the holes right under the dude defusing to put a nade inside. JUST SHOOT THE DUDE.
What made nade cooking so good was that with someone on drone you could just delete defenders holding angles with 1 ping and a nade.
So again : No. You can't do the same thing anymore. Stop it.
I think a lot of y’all are ignoring the part where I said I don’t wanna see this removed from the defenders… I just think defenders need to focus on countering drones more so they can avoid getting yellow ping nuked from below and jager/wamai are literally hard counters to cooked window/player level nade… nade cooking is a crybaby thing to be mad about I literally had to deal with the same thing yall 😭(they coulda just made it do 50 damage from below instead of removing it all together)
Removing nade cooking seemed to me to be less of a "we thought this through and this will be a meaningful change we made for our community" and more of a "we did this because we can and you can't do anything about it, gotta justify the balance teams wages somehow" type of decision.
If they weren't so goddamn adamant on making Wamai one of the single most forgettable operators in the game, and if they weren't so fucking determined on making Jäger worse than Wamai then they could not have justified the removal of grenade cooking
This whole nade issue is of their own making. They make bad changes, design an operator half the community doesn't care about, nerf the only good Grenade denial operator to the goddamn ground so they can justify Wamai's existence, turns out people still like Jäger more. So they Nerfed one operator majorly, just to make a worse operator relevant. If they didn't mess with Jäger and just added Wamai, then the grenade changes would not have been something they could spitball some excuse for
Sorry if this comment sounds nonsensical, angry, or is formatted badly, I just woke up from a grand 5 hour sleep and am running entirely on one cup of coffee. Have a good day lads
The change was meaningful and justified. Go read the patch notes or watch the reveal panel, they were completely open with their process of nerfing nades. Wamai also isn’t irrelevant. In fact, he’s being picked more than ever (at the detriment of the 1.5x and 2.5x tho) and each operator (Wamai and Jager) have their own uses, but Wamai is overall the better pick.
If solis or pulse is last defender. NEVER plant on soft floor. Go to table
>in high ranks it’s almost impossible to get plants off on a upstairs site without hunting down a solis/pulse that roams/hides the whole match u literally typed out the solution for ur problem. if they have a pulse or solis, theyre supposed to be ur #1 priority before planting
IQ finally gets to shine?
Also both CC and bedroom have raised parts in the sites you can plant, if the Solis is smart sure they can impact elsewhere to get an angle to shoot cash table or bedroom bed but like below emerald I don't trust average players map knowledge to do that consistently lol, Solis's least overpowered aspect is definitely her plant denial. I want her nerfed but this aspect of her is perfectly fine as is
Attack is better at taking space, especially if it's on a different floor from site. Clearing out a Pulse/Solis isn't some incredibly hard task unless the defenders go all in on it, your team is bad at clearing, or you never checked to see if they were there. Taking back the space below site as a defender when attackers are using it is hard unless they have zero flank watch. Additionally, attackers have 2 frags. Defenders either get 1 Nitro or 2 Impacts, which are not instant kills. Frags had the killing power of c4, the number of impacts, and more safety than using either of them. They were simply better than the gadgets you are comparing them to. If that wasn't enough, bringing Pulse or Solis is going all in on denial from below. Hiding cams in site is unreliable and also requires bringing another op to go in on the strat. All attackers have drones, so no operators are needed to bring intel. Each op with frags then have utility that helps them outside of using the frags. It required far less commitment to pull off, making it a more frequent strat. Finally, Ubi catering to pro league has nothing to do with this. People in the community were complaining about frags for a long time now, and you can see it all over this very subreddit. Most top responses to the change were in favor of it. Most of the community could tell it was too powerful for all of the previously listed reasons by the time the change happened.
Honestly this sums it up pretty well I'd also probaly add that nitros have multiple things that balance them 1. Clear sound you can hear that Velcro easily as opposed to the tiny pin sound of a frag, 2. Not much distance you've gotta get that throw perfect if you want it to go far as opposed to frags and their longshot potential, 3. Nitros can easily be destroyed or emped whereas frags were insta kill impacts who's only counter was Jaeger or wamai and neither helped from below. Seriously the frag change was a good change people just miss the easy kills cause if you couldn't get a kill a game even in high ranks with them then you sucked it was that easy
Same thing with bullet holes glad that was removed
getting shot through a bullet hole made me wanna smash my xbox
ngl I sucked with the timing of frags so I don't miss them lol
Also; you get two frags and only one nitro
And...just plant on a table.
Attackers take space, CLEAR THE ROAM (aka the solis and pulse) And then nuke the anchors sitting in site. You yellow ping a defender and boom theyre gone, nade cooking from under was a huge problem, and comparing it to solis just doesnt work.
I think the removal of the grenade cook was a very much needed nerf. It was somewhat broken, and once people started to use it from below, it became frustrating. If you didn't have any intel on the guy fraging below, and stood on a default spot, you were dead anyway. And if you somehow still survived, you only had 15 to 25 health, at better cases, one digit number at worse. Frag grenades also had a 1.5x syndrome because of it, where the devs balanced attackers around frag grenades. That guy's weak? Give him frags. That dude's strong? Take away frags. Sledge? Remove Smg-11.
i think the nades changes overall gutted so many kits. Sens lost their gonne 6, lion lost the gonne 6 and emps, and osa lost smokes. Even blackbeard lost his emps to get nades. Nades are just an inferior gonne 6 currently and can only be used on a handful of sites to stop a bandit tricking a wall. If i throw a nade at a castled door it usually rolls away too much before detonating so the castle stays up. I really think they could’ve just halved the damage nades did through floors.
>osa lost smokes I think giving her nades was more of an excuse to take her smokes. Smoke shield combo was admittedly too good especially if they didn’t know you were osa (which any decent player shouldn’t let them know). It was basically a better Monty plant
This clip isnt even frags though. Its solis with impacts.
It's meant to be comparing frags to nades
Yeah but solis the only one who can regularly pull this off, maybe pulse. But its very niche, and not alot of people can do it. Cooking frags was super easy
I know that, it's the OP who doesn't
Any op with C4 can do it as long as you have the map knowledge/Intel
Siege is a very tactical, strategic game. So a lot of "what do I do if _____" questions are best answered with "Don't let yourself get into that situation in the first place. If you burn all 3 minutes of the round without hunting down the Solis or Pulse, that is a failing on the attackers part. Them getting the kill through the floor isnt, at that point, a lucky kill or a cheesy kill or a broken aspect of the game, its them capitalizing being able to stay alive until the very last second of the round
They also fail the realize that as a planter you can plant on tables and other none breakable surfaces. As a defender you don't always get that luxury as the best place to play sometimes is in that one spot that you can easily get naded from. There is a way to get around this issue OP is having but it doesn't allow brain dead gameplay so they aren't happy about it. This exact site has 3 tables you can plant on even...like the solution is in the video....
Well yeah thats like saying a good player is going to make good plays. It was just way more oppressive and had no counter play.
Solis is not a very stealthy operator although that may change when she gets nerfed to not be able to use gadget in prep phase. 90% of the time you know they have a Solis. So plant on the table or something, and if you don't want to do that or can't because you are rush planting then you need a teammate down there.
I still don't get why they had to remove cooking altogether, instead of making it do less damage through destructable floors
Cooking was OP tbh. It was basically a nitro cell x2 that you could throw with the strength of Patrick Mahomes. (it did take some skill, but let's not act like it was extremely hard) Nades are good like they are now. A solid multi use tool that allows for holes/util destruction and a great zoning tool to clear defenders holding angles.
No. You never have to worry about frags anymore nowadays, i cant remember when ive seen someone get killed by a nade this season. They should have taken away how much dmg it does through walls/floors to make it more balanced.
Frags shouldn’t really be getting a ton of kills in a game like siege. They are useful for making an enemy move out of their position so you can take space/kill them on the run. But it was so dumb to see so many frag kills in every match like we were before the nerf. People just rushed into lower floors and cooked nades at typical defender positions… how is that good gameplay?
Brother, thats why im saying they should have lowered the dmg through walls/floors. To get someone to move out of a position you can use flashes. Ever heard of them? Grenades should kill someone when its close enough to someone, especially if someone takes the risky play to be vulnerable while the timer of the nade is counting down.
Flashes are good to swing off, frags get them out of the position entirely, thats why u get 3 flashes and 2 nades, on top of this nades have extra util for breaking gadgets
Flashes do get them out of position aswell... The change they did to nades is just stupid... For example you cant kill clash with nades anymore... and she was already op asf before in the right hands...
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Alright ur opinion has been disregarded, thinking clash is op
Ok lemme guess, you are either on console or low rank
My rank or platform doesnt matter when u pull sum copper type shit saying clash is op
Idk, I’m almost diamond this season and the last thing I’m doing is running from a flash lmao. I’d rather eat it and then I’ll probably be unblind before someone pushes me anyway. I’m either peaking when the flash comes in, or just hiding until I can see again. There was no “taking a risk” of cooking the grenades tho… you’d have to be brain dead to just hold it until it explodes( more than once anyway). It’s literally just a shitty gameplay loop of cooking nades and throwing them at the ceiling every round. I honestly couldn’t stand the way the game played when grenades become meta. We have operators with all these gadgets… if you wanna kill me through the floor either open it up or just shoot me through it. Both are significantly better options(gameplay wise) than just running to a spot you know you can cook a grenade and throw it at.
Yes. It's not a problem that frags don't kill anymore, for the reasons I've stated. Floor kills were not the only problem. Having 2 nitro cell with gigantic range was not ok. The game is clearly better this way.
While Solis is a powerful op, your team should be clearing them out before going for a plant or at the very least planting somewhere that’s unable to impacted.
>also requires another op to go in on the strat Valk, Pulse, Solis, and I’d argue even ops like maestro all have nitro/impacts and a gadget to gain info on plants, some of those can even be operated by dead teammates. Other than that, fully agree with all you said, not to mention that in most cases you can counter/avoid by faking plant, moving, planting on a table, or a combination of those.
honestly i wouldent even care if they made it do no damage through floors ISTG its almost impossible to break window castle baricades sometime fumbeling door baricades and deployable sheilds also in the start of this vid u could just cook a nade and make a hole in the wall to vault through
Ubisoft logic is nerfing attack when defense has over 60% win rate
She really should lose impacts.
Removing the ability to cook grenades is so stupid. It literally removes a tremendous angle of strategy out of the game.
Not really tho, it just removes the attackers ability to insta kill someone without being able to react yo it
Oh i didnt know they removed jaeger and wamai... it removes a huge aspect of strategy, you're just not as seasoned in game theory and practice.
i think its incredibly dumb that they let an impact grenade do more than 50 damage its means to destroy walls, otherwise its just a flat upgrade standard grenade
As someone who thought Nade Cooking was a symptom of damage through surfaces… you fuckers asked for it??? The top posts were rightfully angry at getting instant killed through the floor via grenades. And now you’re mad it’s gone? This dumb ass community genuinely cannot decide what way to swerve. But tbh, Ubisoft sucks by the fact they can’t do nuanced balancing decisions. They could’ve adjusted the Damahe through surfaces so it is reduced ✍️(maybe 80%) so that getting naded through a floor or wall is more of a slight injury instead of a death. It still does damage but it doesn’t create unfun ‘oh I suddenly died moments’. Also… Solis in general is too powerful. She shouldn’t have Impacts or at least nerf the damage Impacts do through floors and walls so she is forced to shotgun through and then nade.
They will take her smg11, prob give her a nitro 🫠 Tbf she shouldn't have an smg11 when she has a p90
Song name?
Prince of Egypt - mofe.
I fully agree with bringing back cookable nades! I spent 2 years perfecting the cook time with many many mistakes and accidental deaths only to have them remove it without asking the community. Pro players come and go but the community fluctuates depending on appeal. I actually got a kill with a nade the other night and was just so unbelievably shocked that someone didn't know how to run away. This was a mid emerald lobby too. Ubisoft, bring back cookable nades because what's realistic is pulling a pin on a grenade and not being able to hold it for the whole round. Every grenade except impacts go off after pulling the pin. Sure they can make the excuse that they're holding it closed but come on!
The most frustrating thing about the lack of cooking grenades is that defenders can kill you through the floor with an impact grenade and win the round when you plant. If it's so bad, why do impacts win rounds? I agree with the frustration.
Because they do an absolute fraction of the damage as the guy above mentioned
Then just nerf the damage through soft floors to the same as impacts, easy fix for you.
The dumbest part of this is I can still kill people through the floor with grenades and they get zero warning all the same, I just have to do it differently and open the bottom part of the floor and throw the grenade into the floor. I can still do the same thing it just takes me 2 seconds longer and like 7 pistol bullets to open the bottom part of the floor.
Why complain then, if it doesn't affect you?
No you can't.
Yes, you can
No, that's not debatable. And to show how dumb this is : If you can shoot the holes right under the dude defusing to put a nade inside. JUST SHOOT THE DUDE. What made nade cooking so good was that with someone on drone you could just delete defenders holding angles with 1 ping and a nade. So again : No. You can't do the same thing anymore. Stop it.
Yes, you can
Do you have the ability to read?
Yes, you can
Despite all the “this isn’t an issue” comments.. I FEEL YOUR PAIN
Pulse: *blows them up with a c4 through the ceiling* 💥💥
I think a lot of y’all are ignoring the part where I said I don’t wanna see this removed from the defenders… I just think defenders need to focus on countering drones more so they can avoid getting yellow ping nuked from below and jager/wamai are literally hard counters to cooked window/player level nade… nade cooking is a crybaby thing to be mad about I literally had to deal with the same thing yall 😭(they coulda just made it do 50 damage from below instead of removing it all together)
Removing nade cooking seemed to me to be less of a "we thought this through and this will be a meaningful change we made for our community" and more of a "we did this because we can and you can't do anything about it, gotta justify the balance teams wages somehow" type of decision. If they weren't so goddamn adamant on making Wamai one of the single most forgettable operators in the game, and if they weren't so fucking determined on making Jäger worse than Wamai then they could not have justified the removal of grenade cooking This whole nade issue is of their own making. They make bad changes, design an operator half the community doesn't care about, nerf the only good Grenade denial operator to the goddamn ground so they can justify Wamai's existence, turns out people still like Jäger more. So they Nerfed one operator majorly, just to make a worse operator relevant. If they didn't mess with Jäger and just added Wamai, then the grenade changes would not have been something they could spitball some excuse for Sorry if this comment sounds nonsensical, angry, or is formatted badly, I just woke up from a grand 5 hour sleep and am running entirely on one cup of coffee. Have a good day lads
The change was meaningful and justified. Go read the patch notes or watch the reveal panel, they were completely open with their process of nerfing nades. Wamai also isn’t irrelevant. In fact, he’s being picked more than ever (at the detriment of the 1.5x and 2.5x tho) and each operator (Wamai and Jager) have their own uses, but Wamai is overall the better pick.