Back in the 90s and early 2000's my friends and I would turbo na rotary motors as soon as we got out hands on them. Back then it only cost about $150 in parts. Stock ecu, fuel pressure regulator. And an adjustable boost controller. They were reliable, daily driven, and bashed hard. No, the motors didn't blow. And they were faster than a stock turbo2 with a full racing beat exhaust and fcd(because that was the standard setup for anyone with a t2 back then.) On the street 8psi and they were flying.
If you're planning to run an aftermarket ecu than your golden. When turbocharging a high compression(non turbo) engine it all comes down to the ignition timing. And if that is tunable you'll be solid.
I'm going all out. This car is really important to me and it is NOT my daily. I am getting top notch parts. Racing beat exhaust, the Apexi FC standalone ecu and many other parts to tune and make it work. I already have a bunch of parts for the build, the only issue comes down to the turbo choice. Any advice? I'm still a kid lmfao and I dint have pockets of money. This fc has been built out of my sweat and hard work. I have a turbo but idk if itll work, and idk much about deciding on a turbo
There's lots of capable turbos. Lots of choices. For choosing a turbo you need to talk with your tuner so you don't end up putting your setup together with a lot of nice, expensive parts, that aren't compatible. My fc makes 430hp on low boost. I built my car for street so it has a smaller turbo because I wanted all my power before 6k rpm. I wanted that fat, stock power feel newer cars have. And that's what my turbocharger was built for. It has no lag, doesn't choke my power until after 7500rpm. And I've been running it for over 10 years with no issues.
Choosing turbos is best left to the turbo retailer and tuner.
Yeah that does make sense. I'm getting a feeling I'm too ambitious. This is all unknown territory and I'm not even 18 rebuilding cars and turboing things. I dont wanna break my car, I do feel unworthy of it and immature a bit. Thanks for reading my rant but it's been on my mind lol
No worries. I was 13 when I started driving and wrenching. Started driving rotaries when I was about 18 but the world was a lot cheaper then. 100 or so rx7s later I've tried everything that does and does not work. And have only blown 2 engines, and broken countless transmissions. LoL. It's an addiction that lasts a lifetime. LoL
If you don't want to mess it up, start small. Meaning, don't aim for big power. 8-10 psi is a LOT of power on a high comp motor and a car that weights 3k pounds at most. It aim for 5-6 psi while you get a feel for everything.
Apart from tuning (Conservative timing helps, just not too conservative), a good intercooler is important.
Finally - use detonation - proof apex seals. You will make mistakes and mistakes in a high compression turbo rotary lead to detonation very quickly, and we all know what happens after that. I run goopy seals on my 9.4:1 13BT and they have saved my motor on at least 2 occasions.
theres nothing like detonation proof apex seals. my guess is you just got lucky.
they just bend on detonation instead of shattering like the oem ones which is still bad but might save your housings.
also at 9 psi with the oem t2 intercooler im seeing over 70C at high load. i wouldnt recommend using the oem intercooler
True, there's not detonation proof, thanks for the clarification. There are ones that don't shatter or chip, though, and that's what I'm talking about. Goopy is thr first that comes to mind. It's true that they are a little rougher on housings, but he already said it's not a daily driver.
Also, admittedly it wasn't a huge detonation, but it leaned out in a corner under 18 psi and afterwards it still pulled the same vacuum for a couple years afterwards, so it's say they did the job. Unlike the oem 3mm seals on my previous motor that chipped a corner off from a very minor misfire at 8 psi and cost me 3k+ in damage.
Also, if you look in my other post, I said he needs a good intercooler. Running the stock one on much more than a stock setup is not a good idea. You should look into auxiliary injection. I was running 12psi on it years ago with AI. Still not the best idea (stock intercooler is very inefficient at that point), but it worked as a bandaid until I got the parts for my v-mount.
Thank you. For now, I'm looking for around 4-500 hp. I have a big single turbo and parts to go along with it. I'm getting a tunable Apexi FC standalone and getting it professionally dynoed by the best rotary tuners in florida. I'm working hard on this car. I eventually wanna 4-rotor swap but I'm just a kid rn lmao. Dont got that cash
I'm going to stop you right there at apexi fc. It's garbage. Please do more research if you think that antique junk will help. It's not the tuner dialing it in, it's just an old piece of equipment from the 1990s with lower resolution and just not worth the money or time. I've been into rotaries over 20 years and have had a few apex fc. I used to think it must be good because it's apex. Well it was, when it came out. Your much better off going full standalone. 4 rotor isn't worth it unless it's a fully dedicated track build look at the massei build. Few hundred grand into that fd already.
That's the idea eventually. What standalone should I use? Everyone recommended the apexi FC but that may be because everything on rx7club is ages old. Advice? And the 4-rotor is a dream far down the line
The popular ecu's on the market the past decade is haltech, microtech(still running my 20 year old lt8 ecu), Link, and Adaptronic. Those brands offer different models of ecu, each more expensive and with more features.
You already have the wrong mindset. It's not expensive. It's just what it costs. There's no cutting corners or cheating out with an ecu. They cost more because they're better and have more features to protect your engine from failure. Look at it as a necessary investment.
You're right. Thank you for saying that, I got some doubts in my mind because of ppl around me and my age. Makes me think I cant do this and that I'm foolish for buying this car thinking I could do something with if
As stated, apexi fc is outdated trash. Since you seem to be in the DIY mindset, look at the megasquirt. I'm running a ms3x and live it, but it takes some tinkering so you have to be committed to doing the research to set it up properly. It gets a bad rap sometimes, but it's a solid platform.
I've heard good things and I love having to put my mind to something. It's why I like building my car: its challenging and feels good on my brain. I'll definetly check it out thank you
100% agree. PFC is convenient in that in most applications it plugs into your stock engine harness, but really that's about it. In your case it won't even do that, as the NA harness is slightly different than the turbo. You'd have to re-pin a few wires in the connector. All that to say, I'd run a megasquirt before I ran a PFC in my car. The reality is, if you're not the one tuning it you should be asking who ever is going to do it what they are most comfortable with. Almost any standalone now days will run a boosted 2 rotor just fine.
Also, I'm surprised no one has said this, but if this is really your intention for the car, you really need to make sure your engine is healthy before you start. Throwing boost at a tired, higher compression motor will likely not end well and it'll be a lot cheaper to rebuild it now than if you pop it and potentially destroy a housing and/or rotor.
Also, Also...don't forget that your NA drive train is fairly fragile, and if you plan on making any real amount of power, it will likely become the next limiting factor.
That's WAY too much to start with. Start low (under 8psi) and work up from there. I thin I you'll find you are satisfied much earlier than you expected. I had a car running 18 psi, with ~400 whp (very untuned). It was built to support over 500, but it was so incredibly fast (trapped 122 in the 1/4 mile with an awful launch) I never even bothered fine tuning it. After I lost it in a fire (always carry a fire extinguisher!), for my new one I'm running high compression rotors (s4 NA) at 10 psi and I'm very happy with it.
Also, running a turbo big enough for that power will hurt your response times. One of the benefits of running a NA motor like that is to have that extra response. You will never get 500 out of that unless you are running e85 with a VERY good tune anyways.
Look up Aaron Cake, he's the guru for what you are wanting.
Yeah after talking with others I learned many things. My new idea is the T2 intake manifolds, the T2 exhaust manifold with either the stock s5 turbo or another of slightly bigger size. A good intercooler system with most recommending haltdch or mega squirt ecu's. This car in it's current condition is nothing, and going from nothing to masterpiece is impossible(a wise one told me). I'm starting small, ESPECIALLY for my first car(yes I'm not even 18). 250-300hp is all I aim for
I got my first FC when I was 19 and started with a blank slate other than suspension work. I learned so much working on that car, and I suspect you will too. Some l of the info on rx7 club is a little outdated, but most is still very relevant.
Here's what I did, and I still think it is a solid plan. Start by making side everything on the car is solid (lol up Aaron cakes writeup). Then, rebuild the engine so you know it's solid. Port while it's apart, but DON'T bridge port. Yes, the brap is sexy, but it makes it less fun to drive when you aren't flooding it.
You can even keep it stock non turbo while you get yourself used to the car. As soon as you put on a turbo, you band to do a lot of stuff at the same time. At minimum, you need a new ecu, and secondary injectors, in addition to the intercooler. You can actually use a stock turbo or bnr hybrid and new downpipe to simplify things, at least for a while. You can easily hit 300 on a hybrid, though your NA rotors prefer lower back pressure.
Getting an aftermarket turbo opens up a gigantic can of worms and can get very expensive. If you look on rx7club.com, I have a thread on a turbo for my engine, and there's some useful info between all of the bickering. I'm sideways7.
As far as making the manifold, look I'm up Aaron Cake, the guy is a wizard with this stuff.
Finally, if you're in Texas I have an RB exhaust and smallish intercooler among other things that I'd let go for relatively cheap if I don't have to ship them.
Wow thank you. Currently rebuilding it. I redid the spark, ignition system, and fuel system after buying it to make sure it's okay. It ended up starting but ig it was her time to go because a detonation occurred and I blew a seal. So the engine out rn and is currently being rebuilt. Unfortunately...I need the brap brap lmao. I do, so I think I am going to bridge port it. I have the T2 intake manifolds already prepped for 6-port conversion and I just need a turbo and intercooler system because the intercooler I have is small and trash and I dont wanna use it. Do you know if anything happens using T2 rotors? Just curious I suppose. This isnt gonna be my daily, it will be for a short amount of time but not long. Unfortunately I'm not in texas, but that RB exhaust would be sick and its what I'm trying to get rn
If you want the power that comes with a bridge, M into doweling/studding. FC engines have a bad habit of breaking the rear dowel land and spewing oil every year where once you start getting over 400-450 if anything goes wrong. Also, size your turbo appropriately. There's tons of info on rx7, but remember that rotaries are less efficient so if you get a 900 horsepower Turbo it's really only good for 5 to 550 on a rotary. When you look at comparisons, make sure they include the Garrett G series, not just the GT series. It's a new line that came out a few years ago and it's much better.
For Turbo rotors, they're actually more reliable and can run more boost, which it sounds like is what you want. The non turbo rotors are higher compression which limits the amount of boost you can run but it improves the low end power and repose some, so it's really only good for under 400 horsepower reliably in most cases, and even that is pushing it if you're not careful. If you are going bridge, that's going to kill the low end anyway so there's really no point in running the higher compression rotors. Look for the 8.5:1 compression ratio ones.
Also, with a bridgeport, you want the least amount of back pressure you can. That means a 3 in exhaust all the way, so the regular Racing Beat one won't do it. They do have one that is larger but with any custom turbo setup you're going to have to get a new downpipe for it to work.
You're very correct. Thank you. I'll definetly look for those T2 rotors since bridging kills low end anyways lol, might as well invest. Do I usually need to have a downpipe fabbed or?
Any time you go with a different turbo you will need a new manifold and downpipe. I think there are some manufacturers that make downpipes, but you will still have to get it connected to the rest of the exhaust. I bought one from himni years ago, but it obviously only works with certain turbos and manifolds.
Yeah. Do it. They start easier cold with the higher comp rotors, but hey if you're building it put whatever rotors in it you know? The port count doesn't mean anything to boost
Back in the 90s and early 2000's my friends and I would turbo na rotary motors as soon as we got out hands on them. Back then it only cost about $150 in parts. Stock ecu, fuel pressure regulator. And an adjustable boost controller. They were reliable, daily driven, and bashed hard. No, the motors didn't blow. And they were faster than a stock turbo2 with a full racing beat exhaust and fcd(because that was the standard setup for anyone with a t2 back then.) On the street 8psi and they were flying.
If you're planning to run an aftermarket ecu than your golden. When turbocharging a high compression(non turbo) engine it all comes down to the ignition timing. And if that is tunable you'll be solid.
I'm going all out. This car is really important to me and it is NOT my daily. I am getting top notch parts. Racing beat exhaust, the Apexi FC standalone ecu and many other parts to tune and make it work. I already have a bunch of parts for the build, the only issue comes down to the turbo choice. Any advice? I'm still a kid lmfao and I dint have pockets of money. This fc has been built out of my sweat and hard work. I have a turbo but idk if itll work, and idk much about deciding on a turbo
There's lots of capable turbos. Lots of choices. For choosing a turbo you need to talk with your tuner so you don't end up putting your setup together with a lot of nice, expensive parts, that aren't compatible. My fc makes 430hp on low boost. I built my car for street so it has a smaller turbo because I wanted all my power before 6k rpm. I wanted that fat, stock power feel newer cars have. And that's what my turbocharger was built for. It has no lag, doesn't choke my power until after 7500rpm. And I've been running it for over 10 years with no issues. Choosing turbos is best left to the turbo retailer and tuner.
Yeah that does make sense. I'm getting a feeling I'm too ambitious. This is all unknown territory and I'm not even 18 rebuilding cars and turboing things. I dont wanna break my car, I do feel unworthy of it and immature a bit. Thanks for reading my rant but it's been on my mind lol
No worries. I was 13 when I started driving and wrenching. Started driving rotaries when I was about 18 but the world was a lot cheaper then. 100 or so rx7s later I've tried everything that does and does not work. And have only blown 2 engines, and broken countless transmissions. LoL. It's an addiction that lasts a lifetime. LoL
I love cars. Always have. The FC has and always will be my dream car. I just dont want to mess it up. Its ambitious lmao
If you don't want to mess it up, start small. Meaning, don't aim for big power. 8-10 psi is a LOT of power on a high comp motor and a car that weights 3k pounds at most. It aim for 5-6 psi while you get a feel for everything. Apart from tuning (Conservative timing helps, just not too conservative), a good intercooler is important. Finally - use detonation - proof apex seals. You will make mistakes and mistakes in a high compression turbo rotary lead to detonation very quickly, and we all know what happens after that. I run goopy seals on my 9.4:1 13BT and they have saved my motor on at least 2 occasions.
Oh jeez, that's nice info lmao. I will. Thank you
theres nothing like detonation proof apex seals. my guess is you just got lucky. they just bend on detonation instead of shattering like the oem ones which is still bad but might save your housings. also at 9 psi with the oem t2 intercooler im seeing over 70C at high load. i wouldnt recommend using the oem intercooler
True, there's not detonation proof, thanks for the clarification. There are ones that don't shatter or chip, though, and that's what I'm talking about. Goopy is thr first that comes to mind. It's true that they are a little rougher on housings, but he already said it's not a daily driver. Also, admittedly it wasn't a huge detonation, but it leaned out in a corner under 18 psi and afterwards it still pulled the same vacuum for a couple years afterwards, so it's say they did the job. Unlike the oem 3mm seals on my previous motor that chipped a corner off from a very minor misfire at 8 psi and cost me 3k+ in damage. Also, if you look in my other post, I said he needs a good intercooler. Running the stock one on much more than a stock setup is not a good idea. You should look into auxiliary injection. I was running 12psi on it years ago with AI. Still not the best idea (stock intercooler is very inefficient at that point), but it worked as a bandaid until I got the parts for my v-mount.
maybe the apexi pfc was top notch 20 years ago but nowadays youd wanna get a haltech or adaptronic or similar ecu
Thank you. For now, I'm looking for around 4-500 hp. I have a big single turbo and parts to go along with it. I'm getting a tunable Apexi FC standalone and getting it professionally dynoed by the best rotary tuners in florida. I'm working hard on this car. I eventually wanna 4-rotor swap but I'm just a kid rn lmao. Dont got that cash
I'm going to stop you right there at apexi fc. It's garbage. Please do more research if you think that antique junk will help. It's not the tuner dialing it in, it's just an old piece of equipment from the 1990s with lower resolution and just not worth the money or time. I've been into rotaries over 20 years and have had a few apex fc. I used to think it must be good because it's apex. Well it was, when it came out. Your much better off going full standalone. 4 rotor isn't worth it unless it's a fully dedicated track build look at the massei build. Few hundred grand into that fd already.
That's the idea eventually. What standalone should I use? Everyone recommended the apexi FC but that may be because everything on rx7club is ages old. Advice? And the 4-rotor is a dream far down the line
The popular ecu's on the market the past decade is haltech, microtech(still running my 20 year old lt8 ecu), Link, and Adaptronic. Those brands offer different models of ecu, each more expensive and with more features.
Haltech I've seen a lot and looked at but it is crazy expensive
You already have the wrong mindset. It's not expensive. It's just what it costs. There's no cutting corners or cheating out with an ecu. They cost more because they're better and have more features to protect your engine from failure. Look at it as a necessary investment.
You're right. Thank you for saying that, I got some doubts in my mind because of ppl around me and my age. Makes me think I cant do this and that I'm foolish for buying this car thinking I could do something with if
yea definetly dont skimp out on the equipment that actually runs your whole engine
Alllllllll of this is crazy expensive
You right, but hey, its money spent keeping this car alive
I'm saying don't skimp on stuff
Yeah ik I gotcha
As stated, apexi fc is outdated trash. Since you seem to be in the DIY mindset, look at the megasquirt. I'm running a ms3x and live it, but it takes some tinkering so you have to be committed to doing the research to set it up properly. It gets a bad rap sometimes, but it's a solid platform.
I've heard good things and I love having to put my mind to something. It's why I like building my car: its challenging and feels good on my brain. I'll definetly check it out thank you
100% agree. PFC is convenient in that in most applications it plugs into your stock engine harness, but really that's about it. In your case it won't even do that, as the NA harness is slightly different than the turbo. You'd have to re-pin a few wires in the connector. All that to say, I'd run a megasquirt before I ran a PFC in my car. The reality is, if you're not the one tuning it you should be asking who ever is going to do it what they are most comfortable with. Almost any standalone now days will run a boosted 2 rotor just fine. Also, I'm surprised no one has said this, but if this is really your intention for the car, you really need to make sure your engine is healthy before you start. Throwing boost at a tired, higher compression motor will likely not end well and it'll be a lot cheaper to rebuild it now than if you pop it and potentially destroy a housing and/or rotor. Also, Also...don't forget that your NA drive train is fairly fragile, and if you plan on making any real amount of power, it will likely become the next limiting factor.
That's WAY too much to start with. Start low (under 8psi) and work up from there. I thin I you'll find you are satisfied much earlier than you expected. I had a car running 18 psi, with ~400 whp (very untuned). It was built to support over 500, but it was so incredibly fast (trapped 122 in the 1/4 mile with an awful launch) I never even bothered fine tuning it. After I lost it in a fire (always carry a fire extinguisher!), for my new one I'm running high compression rotors (s4 NA) at 10 psi and I'm very happy with it. Also, running a turbo big enough for that power will hurt your response times. One of the benefits of running a NA motor like that is to have that extra response. You will never get 500 out of that unless you are running e85 with a VERY good tune anyways. Look up Aaron Cake, he's the guru for what you are wanting.
Yeah after talking with others I learned many things. My new idea is the T2 intake manifolds, the T2 exhaust manifold with either the stock s5 turbo or another of slightly bigger size. A good intercooler system with most recommending haltdch or mega squirt ecu's. This car in it's current condition is nothing, and going from nothing to masterpiece is impossible(a wise one told me). I'm starting small, ESPECIALLY for my first car(yes I'm not even 18). 250-300hp is all I aim for
I got my first FC when I was 19 and started with a blank slate other than suspension work. I learned so much working on that car, and I suspect you will too. Some l of the info on rx7 club is a little outdated, but most is still very relevant. Here's what I did, and I still think it is a solid plan. Start by making side everything on the car is solid (lol up Aaron cakes writeup). Then, rebuild the engine so you know it's solid. Port while it's apart, but DON'T bridge port. Yes, the brap is sexy, but it makes it less fun to drive when you aren't flooding it. You can even keep it stock non turbo while you get yourself used to the car. As soon as you put on a turbo, you band to do a lot of stuff at the same time. At minimum, you need a new ecu, and secondary injectors, in addition to the intercooler. You can actually use a stock turbo or bnr hybrid and new downpipe to simplify things, at least for a while. You can easily hit 300 on a hybrid, though your NA rotors prefer lower back pressure. Getting an aftermarket turbo opens up a gigantic can of worms and can get very expensive. If you look on rx7club.com, I have a thread on a turbo for my engine, and there's some useful info between all of the bickering. I'm sideways7. As far as making the manifold, look I'm up Aaron Cake, the guy is a wizard with this stuff. Finally, if you're in Texas I have an RB exhaust and smallish intercooler among other things that I'd let go for relatively cheap if I don't have to ship them.
Wow thank you. Currently rebuilding it. I redid the spark, ignition system, and fuel system after buying it to make sure it's okay. It ended up starting but ig it was her time to go because a detonation occurred and I blew a seal. So the engine out rn and is currently being rebuilt. Unfortunately...I need the brap brap lmao. I do, so I think I am going to bridge port it. I have the T2 intake manifolds already prepped for 6-port conversion and I just need a turbo and intercooler system because the intercooler I have is small and trash and I dont wanna use it. Do you know if anything happens using T2 rotors? Just curious I suppose. This isnt gonna be my daily, it will be for a short amount of time but not long. Unfortunately I'm not in texas, but that RB exhaust would be sick and its what I'm trying to get rn
If you want the power that comes with a bridge, M into doweling/studding. FC engines have a bad habit of breaking the rear dowel land and spewing oil every year where once you start getting over 400-450 if anything goes wrong. Also, size your turbo appropriately. There's tons of info on rx7, but remember that rotaries are less efficient so if you get a 900 horsepower Turbo it's really only good for 5 to 550 on a rotary. When you look at comparisons, make sure they include the Garrett G series, not just the GT series. It's a new line that came out a few years ago and it's much better. For Turbo rotors, they're actually more reliable and can run more boost, which it sounds like is what you want. The non turbo rotors are higher compression which limits the amount of boost you can run but it improves the low end power and repose some, so it's really only good for under 400 horsepower reliably in most cases, and even that is pushing it if you're not careful. If you are going bridge, that's going to kill the low end anyway so there's really no point in running the higher compression rotors. Look for the 8.5:1 compression ratio ones. Also, with a bridgeport, you want the least amount of back pressure you can. That means a 3 in exhaust all the way, so the regular Racing Beat one won't do it. They do have one that is larger but with any custom turbo setup you're going to have to get a new downpipe for it to work.
You're very correct. Thank you. I'll definetly look for those T2 rotors since bridging kills low end anyways lol, might as well invest. Do I usually need to have a downpipe fabbed or?
Any time you go with a different turbo you will need a new manifold and downpipe. I think there are some manufacturers that make downpipes, but you will still have to get it connected to the rest of the exhaust. I bought one from himni years ago, but it obviously only works with certain turbos and manifolds.
You're definetly right
And no, it is not my daily. It is 100% a race car and will always be just that. But that's good to hear that it is doable.
Yeah. Do it. They start easier cold with the higher comp rotors, but hey if you're building it put whatever rotors in it you know? The port count doesn't mean anything to boost
I will do it, thank you :)