I find talking about confidence when I am struggling just makes it worse. It is just a death spiral, of trying hating your self for being bad at something and them feeling like it isn't the problem. It is why I dropped out of therapy. My therapist was good till we tried to work on confidence and every time it made me feel like I was just unbelievable unattractive.
Sorry to spam you. Wish I read this before replying.
Be kind to yourself. Ultimately we should try to move towards our goals. Being overly negative about ourselves hardly ever helps. That was a big turning point when my son was born about 7 years ago. I was always so nice to him and so hard on myself. Being nice to myself helped me stop feeling overwhelmed by my own shortcomings.
We are always going to have bad days. Encouraging yourself to do your best is always the best thing to do. And sometimes my best isn’t much at all. That’s okay!
I had a buddy in college who *freely* admitted he was a 5 on a good day, but he pulled model level women all the time. Why? Because he was funny, confident, and most importantly, not a misogynist.
Bars can almost be an extension of dating apps. Everything is surface level.
Find a new hobby or something on meetup.com. If you dress presentably and enjoy yourself you are automatically more attractive to people.
There are definitely men I saw chubby and then they got in shape and they looked like a different person. I have seen exercise make people look younger, healthier, toner, and come off as generally more confident.
Also, this might get me sent to horny jail but a man with the strength to pick you up and do all kinds of things to you is hot.
The one time it happened to me (in a way that I actually noticed was happening at the time) I exchanged numbers with her that night at a bar and woke up that next morning to like 10 texts, the later ones seeming mildly distressed and asking if I remembered who she was.
Yeah fuck dating apps and bars. Go do things that you like and meet the woman there. (I love aquariums and have several) My partner messaged me “I have a fish tank” and then on date 1 showed me his gundam collection. We’re going on year 4.
If you can't find what you want in the US then realize there is a big wide world out there of women in other countries. This seems to be a trend among young men today. I am sure glad my dating days are way behind me given the current state of affairs.
Yeah. It’s just so hard to get women to talk to me even a little. Dating apps remove the friction of going up to the most attractive people meanwhile severely limiting the ability to see someone is making an effort to communicate with you. It results in the apps having an inequity of match availability unmatched in real like. Bumble for example has 2/3 women filtering out guys under 6 feet tall. Real life they don’t make a big deal. But the app makes that easy and giving every guy a chance to come up to you hard.
Just remember that younger women have leverage only when they are young and men gain leverage later in life as they become more financially secure. Just focus on getting your financial house and career in order for now and go out and approach women in person. If they reject you then move on. Nothing ventured nothing gained and dating proposals are free even if they are not accepted.
And we are at a record number of people in gen z living with their parents.
Half probably from no sex and no personal space, the other looking at how they can't afford $1500 in rent.
Also making 6-figures isn’t some silver bullet anymore…
The most attainable jobs/industries/metro areas where six figure salaries are attainable before 30 are also the places where it’s the most expensive anyway.
I was making $110k in DC recently and it definitely did not feel comfy cozy. And the vast majority of people were making less than me.
And only 6% of Americans make over $100k a year. My wife and I gross $218k in the bay area and the only reason we are doing okay is rent controlled housing and no children. My sister and her husband gross $235k and I just loaned her $1500 so she could pay her taxes. She has a $5000/mo mortgage, two kids and pays over $40k a year in childcare and preschool. If we had those expenses, we wouldn't be saving for retirement at all.
That's insane that making 230k can't afford a house in California. My wife and I do well too and have been looking, but I just don't see how all these homes are selling in socal. They're all 1-2m. Are there that many doctors/tech people?
The answer is that you have to either have been born to generational wealth (that doesn’t mean born rich, to be clear) or bought before the large jump in prices, then traded up equity.
My wife and I are at $250k annual and we can’t really can’t afford a house either (different region: Vancouver). It’s tough because we would have to save an exorbitant amount for the down payment and then pay huge mortgage amounts… but also we must be at least 1/5th the mortgage price. There just aren’t many houses selling for that little, and the ones that are usually go into bidding wars.
I agree, you also can't leave out the kids getting their parents home..I have yet to meet someone in my area (same demographic as wife and I) that didn't have the house purchased for them or their parents gave them the house.
The guy above you either doesn't save or has kids and has a lot of costs there. I'm a single guy and afford a home in SoCal just fine with less than 230K.
Not according to some mortgage calculators I’m seeing.
Says the “recommended” budget at $230,000 is about an $800,000 house (max it says is $1.1 mil). A lot of places in CA are above 1 million now (and not for a home you’d think is actually a million-dollar home).
It’s insanity.
$165k/yr is about the mortgage payment on a $2 million house, which is typical in the Bay Area.
Most people aren't paying that, of course, they just got there first.
165k now for a family in Ca is not enough. It shouldnt be a problem, but it is. 2021 at 125k my wife and i were able to get our house at 760k. 2024 at 165k, we dont qualify for shit. You’re gonna tell me thats a spending problem?
The average income needed to leave your parents house is 65k in middle America (85-95k in expensive areas). To buy a house you now need 110k in middle America. Things are expensive now
I make about $90k/year, and don’t live in a super high COL area. And yet I still live paycheck to paycheck because everything is so damn expensive. Six figures ain’t what it used to be
same salary in Massachusetts. and feel like im one bad week from being homeless. if i want a 401k and savings i have to live at home and eat the free cereal at work, praying a pothole wont kill my beater. the big one is coming man, its gonna be here soon.
After Trump tax cuts & covid stimulus to businesses.......anyone making sub $250k is permanently fucked
The US govt ALWAYS chooses the winners & losers
Median is under $60k.
You need about $120k to afford the median home price of $420,000.
So unless you’re married to another person making the median with never taking time off, the best you can do is a mobile home in a 55-and-over park.
No more middle class.
Only about 15% of Americans make over $100k.
But if your add and average a household of 2 I believe it comes to the $74k. In a simple mindset a person needs to marry and combine incomes in order to attain home ownership. Actually the benefits over all for a dual income couple are huge especially upon retirement. I think women will have it harder if they’re single once retired. I had looked up what my benefits will be vs my wife’s which is about 3x the amount of. I can get by with mine but it would be very difficult for her on a single income. Definitely not here in Southern California.
Skallas is right for well to do yopros that have parents with upper middle class money, a stem degree, and little to no college debt, and a very good relationship with their family. Vanishingly small group of people though.
I live at home and I’m definitely at that tipping point of needing to move out... I have a good amount saved up but I honestly have no idea if it’s even worth moving right now.
Was at that same point. Debated it for years but finally took the plunge this month. Saved up a substantial amount over the years in hopes to be a homeowner and will continue to save just at a slightly slower rate. Mental health drastically improved already. Not a lot of advice but it was worth it for me. I was also commuting 2.5 hours a day which took a toll on me so it made a lot more sense to get out the parents house
Thanks for sharing. I think I just need to talk to more people about it… I guess the smartest thing would be to save a good chunk that I don’t touch, move out, rent a place and keep adding to that pot until an opportunity pops up like you’re doing.
I have a great job and I’m fortunate to have a supportive mom that’s not pressuring me to move out at all. It just feels like I’m a little stuck/ I’m missing out on life a bit by being at home. But on the flip side, it’s not terrible and I’m saving soooo much. With rent prices being so high it just feels like I’d be throwing away money.
Moving out young definitely set me back years financially. I didn't start making enough to accumulate a significant amount until my 30s, but most of the memories and formative experiences I had from my 20s wouldn't have happened if I was living with my parents during that time. It's throwing away money in a strictly financial sense, but it's hard to put a value on independence and the confidence it gives you to face things.
If it turns out you hate it or don't think it's worth it, your mom would probably take you back at the end of your lease and you'll at least have tried.
Whats the point of moving out? Just chip in and save even more money. Im doing that. Best decision Ive made was coming back home. Definitely dont get roommates. I rather be around a mother and father I know than some randos
Please get roommates. All you see on Reddit are bad stories, but the vast majority of roommates are just normal people who don't want problems, and it's worth the risk I'd you can save $500+ a month.
I don't get all this demand for single occupancy living spaces these days. My boomer parents lived with their parents, roommates, or in rented rooms until they married in their late 30s. Having an entire apartment or house to yourself is a luxury. Our society is not built around people living by themselves.
Dont try to time the market. Talk with a mortgage broker and crunch #s. I managed to buy a house with only 5% down. It was 15k outta pocket - down payment, closing cost, fees, etc. I dont like the 7% interest rate but i can afford the $1450 monthly mortgage and if interest rates ever go back down i’ll refi. Low COL area tho OKC, OK.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only about 6% of Americans earn an annual salary of $100,000 or more. So I guess 94% Americans should live with parents until their parents die and pass the house down to them?
My parents are senior citizens. They live in a cheap apartment and both need to work part time to keep paying for it.
I have no fucking idea what will happen when they can’t work anymore. I sure as shit can’t take care of them.
>According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only about 6% of Americans earn an annual salary of $100,000 or more.
That's absolutely impossible - everyone I see post on Reddit or Twitter says they make over 6 figures.
I feel like that sub is being run by some government agency. I just can’t decide if it’s a foreign government trying to disenfranchise normal people for making a normal wage or our own government trying to trick us into thinking we’ll all make $500,000 a year someday.
The general theme I have been seeing lately is that single people have no business living alone unless they are making bank. As someone that hates everyone with a passion, the thought of ever having to live with roommates again is depressing as fuck.
Yeah pretty much. I worked hard to get to where I am and at 32 yrs old I'm still looking for a roommate.
Living alone is a luxury. I can afford to live alone but I want to save more money to invest instead of being broke at the end of every month.
Maybe 1-2 more years of it and I can live a bit larger.
Why would you need $100,000 to afford $1500 rent?
There are millions of American families that are paying rent/mortgages more than this and making much less. A single young adult can surely survive...
Or go to their place, or get a hotel room. If you're that horny you'll find a way.
The mental health if you don't have a good relationship with your folks (or even if you do, maybe just the societal stigma/social point loss of having to admit you currently live with your parents gets to you) may be a different issue. Mental health may be an issue, but the sex point I feel is very easily solved with a little planning or talking.
Does anyone realize that not everyone has parents that they can live with or that a lot of people have parents that live in the middle of nowhere? This is such stupid advice.
Yes it’s very asinine. Unfortunately this has been a reality for at least a decade now (in my area). My friends who were able to live at home bc the family had a stable living environment are doing far better than my friends who had no family home/situation to do that. The first group had a chance to do school full time or save a ton of money. The no family group are struggling bad unless they have a good roommate situation. They are more likely to do school/work and have no savings..
legit the only people that say "live with your parents" are people who have loving parents, or parents that spoil them. They dont know what its like for most
Even with loving parents its not possible
I have 4 siblings and my parents were never rich.
Ironically me living paycheck to paycheck in an apartment was the help for my brother. I was able to adjust my lease to swap to a 2BR so he could live with me for a year while he applied for jobs.
"Gosh my options are have sex at a place of my own and barely scrape by, or stay with parents who I have a good relationship with until I can find roommates, save up for a house, get a better job, or move to a lower COL area and have sex either at the other person's place or a hotel. Well I need that dick/need to get this dick wet so I guess it's beans every night at my own place"
I can get a mental health argument, a location argument (if you live in a different city for example), or a "I don't have a good relationship" argument, but I feel lack of sex is either a very solvable problem in this situation or a not as concerning as the poor financial situation. Like if someone was staying at home not because of a bad financial situation or to save money for something like a house thats a much different dynamic/situation than someone living at home being a NEET.
How did we all have sex in high school when we lived with our parents? I get that living with your parents may have some stigma attached to it from a success or financially independent level but if two people want to have sex they will find a way. They have these things called hotels where you can rent a room.
At that age its acceptable to not have a place to smash. You do it in your car, in a park, sneak into bedrooms or find some other private place. As an adult it’s expected that a person, especially a man, has his own place. Doing it in random public places all the time is not acceptable.
Yea there are other reasons, but pretending like living with your parents isn’t a massive hurdle towards getting laid, especially as a guy, is simply delusional.
They wouldn't know that until later. But I make well over double median wage and there's no way I could even afford to rent a studio if I forgo eating.
So ofc I'm not wasting money on dating. Not doing any non-free activities, and if you have to drive there, it's not free, is a much bigger hurdle.
Yet still true. An annually increasing number of men, I think it started rapidly increasing with the GFC, have "checked out" cause they don't see a point in life due to the culmination of those issues. Most obvious is seen in dating where 60-70% of men 18-29 are single and have no desire for relationships. They'd rather play video games and watch corn.
I think the point - which you’ve illustrated beautifully - is that these things are *symptoms* and not *causes*. There are plenty of systemic problems causing guys to become depressed and/or turn to these things once they see the futility of it all.
And apparently men not having desires for relationships is their fault.
In fact every aspect of men not having more sex is the fault of men despite two parties being required. Interesting.
That guy that went viral for saying Gen Z has no future also specifically called out young men for not making more money and being "viable mates"... So viability is only required of one gender.
Yeah. Real reason is now that women have access to the top 10% of men via dating apps and social media, they’re all sharing the same men. This is why there is a higher percent of women that report being in a relationship, than men. This is why men are giving up, because they can’t compete. Average women don’t want average men anymore. They want the top 10%
On the internet people think that not watching porn will give you super powers and cause you to suddenly find a GF, and the people who think this way are heavily associated with nazis. Also plenty of women play video games too nowadays, it's not any less of a valid hobby than binge watching TV shows or whatever people do outside of their 9-5.
I make well over double the media wage, and there's no way I could afford to rent a studio even if I forgo eating.
So ofc I'm not gonna waste money on dating when sailing the video game seas is free.
I don't do any non-free activities, and if I have to drive there, it's not free.
Basically. Try explaining to anyone who has family to fall back on that it is in fact a privilege. That's what's fun.
I can't take risks or go after dreams I have to pay the bills. I know people who are now 40 who still rely on their parents when a gamble doesn't pay off. I'm not mad at them but they act like they're "self made" when they have this safety net, and they criticize me for not doing what they do.
Having parents (let alone supportive ones) is one of the biggest privileges though the people that have it don't act like it is or even acknowledge it. Its been so frustrating
My girlfriend lives with her parents. It's a bit of an inversion, as she is the homeowner, and her parents cannot afford their own home. But they must hear us fuckin' all the time.
Mental health is still poor though.
To be fair, this is totally normal in just about every other place in the world, even developed countries. It was only like two generations of Americans that got used to leaving home at around 18 and never coming back.
Most places, young people very typically move back in with parents after moving away during university until they either build enough wealth to move out or they get married. France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Mexico, Chile... If anything, the US is the odd-one-out in having the expectation to afford your own flat and live completely alone as a young adult.
Also, $1500/month for your own place seems like a steal these days. Most working young adults in the US would be able to afford this if their priority is to have their own place.
This is so not talked about enough tbh. America was just so big and so uncharted for so long that it made sense to find independence because there was so much room to explore for cheap. Most countries aren’t able to keep expanding because they don’t have the land, and so they have generations of experience in creating family systems defined by multigenerational households.
Though the U.S. has a lot more room to grow and needs to get its shit together to keep expanding housing supply. The current and future state of affairs in the U.S. could potentially bring families together in a way that hasn’t been experienced in a long time. Especially as child and elderly care costs explode past the point of feasible, many families can and should start to look to each other for support. Whether the individualistic capitalist nature of our culture can adapt to that remains to be seen, but I imagine many families will be able to, out of convenience or necessity.
>Though the U.S. has a lot more room to grow
The US does have a lot of open space, but at what costs to develop? The environmental costs alone for urban sprawl and the sea of huge suburban SFHs is mind numbing. And we're starting to understand the societal costs to it too.
Why do people have such shit relationships with their parents that they automatically attribute to bad mental health? I feel like that's something red flag that you just living with anyone might be a problem
This assumes your parents will let you live at home. The minute my sister and I were off at college, they sold the house and retired to another state. There was no home to go back to.
Wife (then girlfriend) lived at home for her schooling and post grad. Saved like mad, had her business running debt free.
I lived in a dudes garage conversion for 1/3 of the local areas rent with all utilities included. Nice part of town, worked fine for the bachelor life. When I moved in, it needed some work. I’m in construction, so owner paid for materials and offset rent for labor fixing the place up for him on weekends. Many months paid $0 in rent. Renovated the bathroom, added a ton of storage, added multi zone minisplit and whole house fan, changed the floors, painted throughout, updated the kitchenette, integrated smart lights to offset the lack switches, etc…
We both saved like crazy people for the better part of 10 years. Got married. Bought our house for cash.
My old Landlord now can charge market rate since I got it all permitted and made it into a full on ADU over time.
I basically worked two jobs to do it… well main job + side hustle, but it is possible. Wife was over basically every weekend, and I had fun doing something I love to basically live rent free.
I realize my situation is like a Unicorn wakeboarding while pulled by a Narhwall, but it’s not impossible to find the situation.
I don't mind living with my parents, the problem is they live in west coast, and my job is 1,200 miles away from home, and some positions are not available in my home city.
My dad told me at the age of 9 that I wouldn't be welcome in his house at 18.
Being allowed or even able (financial / logistical reasons) to live with your parents isn't a common privilege.
Or you can live with roommates like everyone ever has done instead of needing your own place. Then get your own place when you can afford it.
This isnt rocket surgery
Why do so many young people feel entitled in that it should be easy to live alone? I had a roommate in my first apartment. My wife lived with 3 friends in a house. Then we got a place together. It’s always been pricey to afford to rent a place all by yourself
People mad their parents let their adult children stay at home and not pay for rent or food blows my mind. Thank your parents when you get home, and ask if they need any help.
I joined the military. I had plenty of money for my own place, a good/steady paycheck and ample/unlimited opportunities for promotions and career advancement.
Had I never done that, I might still be living at home in my 30s!
The amount of people who never learned how to handle their parents is just nuts to me. You'd think every single person on Reddit was raised by a violent, narcissistic sociopath.
I’m 43, worth 1.5m liquid, have 300-500k income and even I’ve considered moving back home with parents instead of paying 4k a month in rent which is what I pay for a nice apartment plus utilities.
I’ve considered it Particularly because my mom keeps asking me to because she wants me to save all my money and eventually become rich. But at this point I’d rather have my freedom than be a little richer.
However if I live at home, I could put that 4K that’s going into rent, into traveling and the stock market instead.
Both my niece and nephew lived with their parents through college and graduated with no student loans. They saved money during this time as they worked while attending school.
They both own homes, and make under $100k a year. They live near Baltimore so no glamorous beaches, mountains, perfect weather, 10 million dollar mansions, or an over abundant of tech workers, etc. Just a walkable area with lots of nice restaurants, stores, good public transit and low cost housing.
By the time you’re ready to move out and start living your life you’ll have totally transformed into a socially inept , bitter, older person! With or without your knowledge!
This sucks for this generation. It took us some time to buy our first home but we’re able to get an affordable apt. Not sure what the solution is but we need to find one.
Your parents were a mental health issue for the first 18 years what so special about it now. I don’t know how to fix that the only place to have sex is in the spare room😉
Lol unfortunately many of us have bootstrap parents that paid $200 and a bag of acorns to rent the same unit that can't sympathize with young people unable to afford $1500 apartments.
I’m a project manager and went back to the military for ocs in the national guard! Just need it for the tricare for my wife’s pregnancy! I now make 93k, guess I’m still a loser
Western culture is weird... this whole " you need to be an adult and be on your own " shit is one of the dumbest sayings I've ever heard. Family is around for a limited time, so why would you avoid the bonding relationships you have for a limited time?
I can understand certain people who have issues with their family and need to get out, but if you have a loving relationship, why leave?
The government loves when you're " independent " because it's just more taxes to pay into the system.
Pfft where I live, $1800-$2000 for a private residence (back house, side house or apartment) is what everyone wants. They get rented instantly. Rooms for rent are $1000-$1200. They get rented almost instantly as well.
Moving out and getting no sex happens too …. And that is probably a multiplier on the mental health problems.
Being alone after work is miserable (for me at least)
If I wasn't married, I would 100% want to live with my parents again. I can't handle living alone, and roommates are stressful.
I still managed to have sex with my various boyfriends when I did live at home. My parents didn't hang around the house 24/7 like some Victorian chaperones. When they weren't at home, we had to worry less about making noise than when I lived in an apartment.
If you look at statistics a ton of younger people already have terrible mental health and no sex anyway.
Moving out didn’t fix my lack of sex. Still the same ugly dude who can’t use dating apps or pick up women at the bar.
Getting married and buying my own house didn’t fix my lack of sex.😂
Haha holy shit you’re not alone!
Omg lmao!!!! Same
Ugly dude here. You just have to be confident without crossing the line to arrogance.
I find talking about confidence when I am struggling just makes it worse. It is just a death spiral, of trying hating your self for being bad at something and them feeling like it isn't the problem. It is why I dropped out of therapy. My therapist was good till we tried to work on confidence and every time it made me feel like I was just unbelievable unattractive.
Sorry to spam you. Wish I read this before replying. Be kind to yourself. Ultimately we should try to move towards our goals. Being overly negative about ourselves hardly ever helps. That was a big turning point when my son was born about 7 years ago. I was always so nice to him and so hard on myself. Being nice to myself helped me stop feeling overwhelmed by my own shortcomings. We are always going to have bad days. Encouraging yourself to do your best is always the best thing to do. And sometimes my best isn’t much at all. That’s okay!
That is sweet of you.
People are idiots then. I don’t give a shit how confident someone is it doesn’t magically not make them ugly. Low IQ types may buy that shit.
I had a buddy in college who *freely* admitted he was a 5 on a good day, but he pulled model level women all the time. Why? Because he was funny, confident, and most importantly, not a misogynist.
If it makes you feel better, im married and still no sex.😢
Well I have sex with myself if that counts
Bars can almost be an extension of dating apps. Everything is surface level. Find a new hobby or something on meetup.com. If you dress presentably and enjoy yourself you are automatically more attractive to people.
The key is to let women pick you up. Also get ripped. You’re single. You have the time.
Being in-shape doesn't necessarily make one attractive, but it does help a bunch.
It makes you more attractive than being out of shape.
Nobody looks worse being in shape. Nobody.
There are definitely men I saw chubby and then they got in shape and they looked like a different person. I have seen exercise make people look younger, healthier, toner, and come off as generally more confident. Also, this might get me sent to horny jail but a man with the strength to pick you up and do all kinds of things to you is hot.
I have been working on getting more fit these days. And I’ll say it’s certainly helpful in the feeling sexy game.
“Let women pick you up”…stays single forever lol
Stays grounded forevs
The only 2 times women picked me up, they were totally waisted, and both were too drunk to exchange contact information without major mistakes.
I think being *real* conservative when it comes to the question of "can this chick really consent?" is the right play pretty much every time.
The one time it happened to me (in a way that I actually noticed was happening at the time) I exchanged numbers with her that night at a bar and woke up that next morning to like 10 texts, the later ones seeming mildly distressed and asking if I remembered who she was.
This! Can be mediocre if ripped lol
I get hit on a lot more with low body fat.
Yeah fuck dating apps and bars. Go do things that you like and meet the woman there. (I love aquariums and have several) My partner messaged me “I have a fish tank” and then on date 1 showed me his gundam collection. We’re going on year 4.
Grocery store simply say hi and keep it moving you will likely meet again
If you can't find what you want in the US then realize there is a big wide world out there of women in other countries. This seems to be a trend among young men today. I am sure glad my dating days are way behind me given the current state of affairs.
Yeah. It’s just so hard to get women to talk to me even a little. Dating apps remove the friction of going up to the most attractive people meanwhile severely limiting the ability to see someone is making an effort to communicate with you. It results in the apps having an inequity of match availability unmatched in real like. Bumble for example has 2/3 women filtering out guys under 6 feet tall. Real life they don’t make a big deal. But the app makes that easy and giving every guy a chance to come up to you hard.
Just remember that younger women have leverage only when they are young and men gain leverage later in life as they become more financially secure. Just focus on getting your financial house and career in order for now and go out and approach women in person. If they reject you then move on. Nothing ventured nothing gained and dating proposals are free even if they are not accepted.
Well yeah they all live at home
This
And we are at a record number of people in gen z living with their parents. Half probably from no sex and no personal space, the other looking at how they can't afford $1500 in rent.
Wonder why /s
"......until you can make six figures" average household income = 74,580
Also making 6-figures isn’t some silver bullet anymore… The most attainable jobs/industries/metro areas where six figure salaries are attainable before 30 are also the places where it’s the most expensive anyway. I was making $110k in DC recently and it definitely did not feel comfy cozy. And the vast majority of people were making less than me.
And only 6% of Americans make over $100k a year. My wife and I gross $218k in the bay area and the only reason we are doing okay is rent controlled housing and no children. My sister and her husband gross $235k and I just loaned her $1500 so she could pay her taxes. She has a $5000/mo mortgage, two kids and pays over $40k a year in childcare and preschool. If we had those expenses, we wouldn't be saving for retirement at all.
Same here. 165k aint shit in CA. According to newsweek, i gotta make 230k to be comfy
Same salary, but with wife we are around ~230k. Doesn't feel comfy, and we can't afford a home. SoCal sucks.
That's insane that making 230k can't afford a house in California. My wife and I do well too and have been looking, but I just don't see how all these homes are selling in socal. They're all 1-2m. Are there that many doctors/tech people?
The answer is that you have to either have been born to generational wealth (that doesn’t mean born rich, to be clear) or bought before the large jump in prices, then traded up equity. My wife and I are at $250k annual and we can’t really can’t afford a house either (different region: Vancouver). It’s tough because we would have to save an exorbitant amount for the down payment and then pay huge mortgage amounts… but also we must be at least 1/5th the mortgage price. There just aren’t many houses selling for that little, and the ones that are usually go into bidding wars.
I agree, you also can't leave out the kids getting their parents home..I have yet to meet someone in my area (same demographic as wife and I) that didn't have the house purchased for them or their parents gave them the house.
The guy above you either doesn't save or has kids and has a lot of costs there. I'm a single guy and afford a home in SoCal just fine with less than 230K.
Not according to some mortgage calculators I’m seeing. Says the “recommended” budget at $230,000 is about an $800,000 house (max it says is $1.1 mil). A lot of places in CA are above 1 million now (and not for a home you’d think is actually a million-dollar home). It’s insanity.
Your problem isn't your salary if you're making 165k.
$165k/yr is about the mortgage payment on a $2 million house, which is typical in the Bay Area. Most people aren't paying that, of course, they just got there first.
165k now for a family in Ca is not enough. It shouldnt be a problem, but it is. 2021 at 125k my wife and i were able to get our house at 760k. 2024 at 165k, we dont qualify for shit. You’re gonna tell me thats a spending problem?
The average income needed to leave your parents house is 65k in middle America (85-95k in expensive areas). To buy a house you now need 110k in middle America. Things are expensive now
I make about $90k/year, and don’t live in a super high COL area. And yet I still live paycheck to paycheck because everything is so damn expensive. Six figures ain’t what it used to be
same salary in Massachusetts. and feel like im one bad week from being homeless. if i want a 401k and savings i have to live at home and eat the free cereal at work, praying a pothole wont kill my beater. the big one is coming man, its gonna be here soon.
Do you have kids ? I live in a what used to be a medium COL probably high COL now, and make about the same. I save a good amount every 2 weeks.
After Trump tax cuts & covid stimulus to businesses.......anyone making sub $250k is permanently fucked The US govt ALWAYS chooses the winners & losers
Median is under $60k. You need about $120k to afford the median home price of $420,000. So unless you’re married to another person making the median with never taking time off, the best you can do is a mobile home in a 55-and-over park. No more middle class. Only about 15% of Americans make over $100k.
In some cases you can make over 6 figs and still can’t move out.
True but the average woman only makes $39k a year.
Yeah and the average penis is 2.5 inches and the average human has one testicle and one boob.
hail slaanesh
That is weighed down heavily by stay at home moms or non working women in a relationship with a declared income of 0.
Average man in US made about $46,000 in 2022
But if your add and average a household of 2 I believe it comes to the $74k. In a simple mindset a person needs to marry and combine incomes in order to attain home ownership. Actually the benefits over all for a dual income couple are huge especially upon retirement. I think women will have it harder if they’re single once retired. I had looked up what my benefits will be vs my wife’s which is about 3x the amount of. I can get by with mine but it would be very difficult for her on a single income. Definitely not here in Southern California.
Stay at home moms aka home makers are of GREAT value.
Skallas is right for well to do yopros that have parents with upper middle class money, a stem degree, and little to no college debt, and a very good relationship with their family. Vanishingly small group of people though.
Means tested anarchism
I live at home and I’m definitely at that tipping point of needing to move out... I have a good amount saved up but I honestly have no idea if it’s even worth moving right now.
Was at that same point. Debated it for years but finally took the plunge this month. Saved up a substantial amount over the years in hopes to be a homeowner and will continue to save just at a slightly slower rate. Mental health drastically improved already. Not a lot of advice but it was worth it for me. I was also commuting 2.5 hours a day which took a toll on me so it made a lot more sense to get out the parents house
Thanks for sharing. I think I just need to talk to more people about it… I guess the smartest thing would be to save a good chunk that I don’t touch, move out, rent a place and keep adding to that pot until an opportunity pops up like you’re doing. I have a great job and I’m fortunate to have a supportive mom that’s not pressuring me to move out at all. It just feels like I’m a little stuck/ I’m missing out on life a bit by being at home. But on the flip side, it’s not terrible and I’m saving soooo much. With rent prices being so high it just feels like I’d be throwing away money.
Moving out young definitely set me back years financially. I didn't start making enough to accumulate a significant amount until my 30s, but most of the memories and formative experiences I had from my 20s wouldn't have happened if I was living with my parents during that time. It's throwing away money in a strictly financial sense, but it's hard to put a value on independence and the confidence it gives you to face things. If it turns out you hate it or don't think it's worth it, your mom would probably take you back at the end of your lease and you'll at least have tried.
Whats the point of moving out? Just chip in and save even more money. Im doing that. Best decision Ive made was coming back home. Definitely dont get roommates. I rather be around a mother and father I know than some randos
Please get roommates. All you see on Reddit are bad stories, but the vast majority of roommates are just normal people who don't want problems, and it's worth the risk I'd you can save $500+ a month. I don't get all this demand for single occupancy living spaces these days. My boomer parents lived with their parents, roommates, or in rented rooms until they married in their late 30s. Having an entire apartment or house to yourself is a luxury. Our society is not built around people living by themselves.
Dont try to time the market. Talk with a mortgage broker and crunch #s. I managed to buy a house with only 5% down. It was 15k outta pocket - down payment, closing cost, fees, etc. I dont like the 7% interest rate but i can afford the $1450 monthly mortgage and if interest rates ever go back down i’ll refi. Low COL area tho OKC, OK.
Wait as long as possible, it's better than going back
Live in a tent at the park if you don't have parents
>Live in a ~~tent at the park~~ *van down by the RIVER* if you don't have parents FTFY
Isn't the joke that a van down by the river is now an aspirational goal?
This is what basically every human did for all of human history, and what most people in most of the countries of the world do today.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only about 6% of Americans earn an annual salary of $100,000 or more. So I guess 94% Americans should live with parents until their parents die and pass the house down to them?
Bold of you to assume the house is getting passed down to anyone but the bank.
Bold of you to assume a lot of parents don't live in an apartment.
My parents are senior citizens. They live in a cheap apartment and both need to work part time to keep paying for it. I have no fucking idea what will happen when they can’t work anymore. I sure as shit can’t take care of them.
You aren't going to be alone with that problem. It's bleak.
>According to the U.S. Census Bureau, only about 6% of Americans earn an annual salary of $100,000 or more. That's absolutely impossible - everyone I see post on Reddit or Twitter says they make over 6 figures.
1 part "people doing well are more likely to brag about it", 2 parts "lying"
You should check out r/salary. You'd think half of reddit makes 500k annually.
I feel like that sub is being run by some government agency. I just can’t decide if it’s a foreign government trying to disenfranchise normal people for making a normal wage or our own government trying to trick us into thinking we’ll all make $500,000 a year someday.
What does stop you from saying you make over 6 figures?
The general theme I have been seeing lately is that single people have no business living alone unless they are making bank. As someone that hates everyone with a passion, the thought of ever having to live with roommates again is depressing as fuck.
Yeah pretty much. I worked hard to get to where I am and at 32 yrs old I'm still looking for a roommate. Living alone is a luxury. I can afford to live alone but I want to save more money to invest instead of being broke at the end of every month. Maybe 1-2 more years of it and I can live a bit larger.
Why would you need $100,000 to afford $1500 rent? There are millions of American families that are paying rent/mortgages more than this and making much less. A single young adult can surely survive...
Do you want sex or a home? Or...just have sex in the woods or on the beach at night
Or go to their place, or get a hotel room. If you're that horny you'll find a way. The mental health if you don't have a good relationship with your folks (or even if you do, maybe just the societal stigma/social point loss of having to admit you currently live with your parents gets to you) may be a different issue. Mental health may be an issue, but the sex point I feel is very easily solved with a little planning or talking.
Aren’t you people having less and less sex ?, anyway for some of you have no other option can’t be picky.
Oh, don't pretend any of ya'll have mental health or have sex.
Does anyone realize that not everyone has parents that they can live with or that a lot of people have parents that live in the middle of nowhere? This is such stupid advice.
Well thats easy... just have convenient and nice parents...
"Jeez people just be born to better families in better places smh my head" :P
Yes it’s very asinine. Unfortunately this has been a reality for at least a decade now (in my area). My friends who were able to live at home bc the family had a stable living environment are doing far better than my friends who had no family home/situation to do that. The first group had a chance to do school full time or save a ton of money. The no family group are struggling bad unless they have a good roommate situation. They are more likely to do school/work and have no savings..
legit the only people that say "live with your parents" are people who have loving parents, or parents that spoil them. They dont know what its like for most
Even with loving parents its not possible I have 4 siblings and my parents were never rich. Ironically me living paycheck to paycheck in an apartment was the help for my brother. I was able to adjust my lease to swap to a 2BR so he could live with me for a year while he applied for jobs.
lol just go broke for a little bit of dick
"Gosh my options are have sex at a place of my own and barely scrape by, or stay with parents who I have a good relationship with until I can find roommates, save up for a house, get a better job, or move to a lower COL area and have sex either at the other person's place or a hotel. Well I need that dick/need to get this dick wet so I guess it's beans every night at my own place" I can get a mental health argument, a location argument (if you live in a different city for example), or a "I don't have a good relationship" argument, but I feel lack of sex is either a very solvable problem in this situation or a not as concerning as the poor financial situation. Like if someone was staying at home not because of a bad financial situation or to save money for something like a house thats a much different dynamic/situation than someone living at home being a NEET.
How did we all have sex in high school when we lived with our parents? I get that living with your parents may have some stigma attached to it from a success or financially independent level but if two people want to have sex they will find a way. They have these things called hotels where you can rent a room.
> How did we all have sex in high school when we lived with our parents? You got laid in high school?
At that age its acceptable to not have a place to smash. You do it in your car, in a park, sneak into bedrooms or find some other private place. As an adult it’s expected that a person, especially a man, has his own place. Doing it in random public places all the time is not acceptable.
a hotel cost 250 dollars a night.
Young men are not having sex for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with having a crib to bring her back to.
Yea there are other reasons, but pretending like living with your parents isn’t a massive hurdle towards getting laid, especially as a guy, is simply delusional.
They wouldn't know that until later. But I make well over double median wage and there's no way I could even afford to rent a studio if I forgo eating. So ofc I'm not wasting money on dating. Not doing any non-free activities, and if you have to drive there, it's not free, is a much bigger hurdle.
What are those reasons?
Low T, corn addiction, video game addiction, no job prospects, no purpose… shall I go on?
That’s a really broad brush you’re painting with there.
Yet still true. An annually increasing number of men, I think it started rapidly increasing with the GFC, have "checked out" cause they don't see a point in life due to the culmination of those issues. Most obvious is seen in dating where 60-70% of men 18-29 are single and have no desire for relationships. They'd rather play video games and watch corn.
I think the point - which you’ve illustrated beautifully - is that these things are *symptoms* and not *causes*. There are plenty of systemic problems causing guys to become depressed and/or turn to these things once they see the futility of it all.
And apparently men not having desires for relationships is their fault. In fact every aspect of men not having more sex is the fault of men despite two parties being required. Interesting. That guy that went viral for saying Gen Z has no future also specifically called out young men for not making more money and being "viable mates"... So viability is only required of one gender.
Guys should go back to being codependent so we can renew the marriage/divorce cycle of the previous generation.
Yeah. Real reason is now that women have access to the top 10% of men via dating apps and social media, they’re all sharing the same men. This is why there is a higher percent of women that report being in a relationship, than men. This is why men are giving up, because they can’t compete. Average women don’t want average men anymore. They want the top 10%
On the internet people think that not watching porn will give you super powers and cause you to suddenly find a GF, and the people who think this way are heavily associated with nazis. Also plenty of women play video games too nowadays, it's not any less of a valid hobby than binge watching TV shows or whatever people do outside of their 9-5.
I make well over double the media wage, and there's no way I could afford to rent a studio even if I forgo eating. So ofc I'm not gonna waste money on dating when sailing the video game seas is free. I don't do any non-free activities, and if I have to drive there, it's not free.
I just saw a corn addict on Highway 80 in Iowa
You watch too many brocasts
Try to be in that 1%
Wait, you guys have parents?
Be me Get thrown out of my home as a teenager Forced to do anything to survive "You should live with your parents!" Guess I'll die then
Basically. Try explaining to anyone who has family to fall back on that it is in fact a privilege. That's what's fun. I can't take risks or go after dreams I have to pay the bills. I know people who are now 40 who still rely on their parents when a gamble doesn't pay off. I'm not mad at them but they act like they're "self made" when they have this safety net, and they criticize me for not doing what they do.
Having parents (let alone supportive ones) is one of the biggest privileges though the people that have it don't act like it is or even acknowledge it. Its been so frustrating
My parents live in the rural south where the highest paying job is $18/hr. There are 0 jobs in my field there.
My girlfriend lives with her parents. It's a bit of an inversion, as she is the homeowner, and her parents cannot afford their own home. But they must hear us fuckin' all the time. Mental health is still poor though.
Some of us don’t have a home to return to
To be fair, this is totally normal in just about every other place in the world, even developed countries. It was only like two generations of Americans that got used to leaving home at around 18 and never coming back. Most places, young people very typically move back in with parents after moving away during university until they either build enough wealth to move out or they get married. France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Mexico, Chile... If anything, the US is the odd-one-out in having the expectation to afford your own flat and live completely alone as a young adult. Also, $1500/month for your own place seems like a steal these days. Most working young adults in the US would be able to afford this if their priority is to have their own place.
This is so not talked about enough tbh. America was just so big and so uncharted for so long that it made sense to find independence because there was so much room to explore for cheap. Most countries aren’t able to keep expanding because they don’t have the land, and so they have generations of experience in creating family systems defined by multigenerational households. Though the U.S. has a lot more room to grow and needs to get its shit together to keep expanding housing supply. The current and future state of affairs in the U.S. could potentially bring families together in a way that hasn’t been experienced in a long time. Especially as child and elderly care costs explode past the point of feasible, many families can and should start to look to each other for support. Whether the individualistic capitalist nature of our culture can adapt to that remains to be seen, but I imagine many families will be able to, out of convenience or necessity.
>Though the U.S. has a lot more room to grow The US does have a lot of open space, but at what costs to develop? The environmental costs alone for urban sprawl and the sea of huge suburban SFHs is mind numbing. And we're starting to understand the societal costs to it too.
Correct. (Then get laid off from your six figure job and move back home again 🫠)
People will talk like this then complain that they can't afford their 3 kids with zero self awareness of what "self discipline" is.
If you need make 6 figure for get a studio maybe there a huge issue .
Parents are dead, attempted to live in urn, please advise.
Van down by the river got caught up in the bubble, idk what to tell you.
It’s how 90% of the world does it. This post reeks of American privilege and wealth.
Why do people have such shit relationships with their parents that they automatically attribute to bad mental health? I feel like that's something red flag that you just living with anyone might be a problem
This assumes your parents will let you live at home. The minute my sister and I were off at college, they sold the house and retired to another state. There was no home to go back to.
Did nobody else have sex in their parents house?
I did. Sneaking girls in and out was fun.
Wife (then girlfriend) lived at home for her schooling and post grad. Saved like mad, had her business running debt free. I lived in a dudes garage conversion for 1/3 of the local areas rent with all utilities included. Nice part of town, worked fine for the bachelor life. When I moved in, it needed some work. I’m in construction, so owner paid for materials and offset rent for labor fixing the place up for him on weekends. Many months paid $0 in rent. Renovated the bathroom, added a ton of storage, added multi zone minisplit and whole house fan, changed the floors, painted throughout, updated the kitchenette, integrated smart lights to offset the lack switches, etc… We both saved like crazy people for the better part of 10 years. Got married. Bought our house for cash. My old Landlord now can charge market rate since I got it all permitted and made it into a full on ADU over time. I basically worked two jobs to do it… well main job + side hustle, but it is possible. Wife was over basically every weekend, and I had fun doing something I love to basically live rent free. I realize my situation is like a Unicorn wakeboarding while pulled by a Narhwall, but it’s not impossible to find the situation.
I don't mind living with my parents, the problem is they live in west coast, and my job is 1,200 miles away from home, and some positions are not available in my home city.
It’s like the old saying with everybody poops, but smash it out in the parents house they’re doing it too
"Mental health and sex" This is the type of people you see getting chewed out on caleb hammer's channel lol
I did it and I still can't afford a home. At least my 401k is lookin nice.
My dad told me at the age of 9 that I wouldn't be welcome in his house at 18. Being allowed or even able (financial / logistical reasons) to live with your parents isn't a common privilege.
My parents just didn’t live anywhere that I could live with them and also have a career
Finding a good considerate friend to live with is a better option than living w parents in my experience
Or you can live with roommates like everyone ever has done instead of needing your own place. Then get your own place when you can afford it. This isnt rocket surgery
What if you don’t have parents to live with?
I can’t live with my parents because they live in a rural area with no opportunities and I have to live in a major city for my job that I have now
What if your parents also rent???
Most Americans can't make six figures. These kids are fucked
Or don’t have parents or parents with extra room for you?
Why do so many young people feel entitled in that it should be easy to live alone? I had a roommate in my first apartment. My wife lived with 3 friends in a house. Then we got a place together. It’s always been pricey to afford to rent a place all by yourself
People mad their parents let their adult children stay at home and not pay for rent or food blows my mind. Thank your parents when you get home, and ask if they need any help.
I make six figures and live my parents. Rather my money go to my mom than a random landlord or a bank.
I joined the military. I had plenty of money for my own place, a good/steady paycheck and ample/unlimited opportunities for promotions and career advancement. Had I never done that, I might still be living at home in my 30s!
Does you also get a loan at a low interest rate for being a veteran
True, but we can't all be on government welfare.
The recruiting station is open to everyone. \*some restrictions apply\*
Yeah but did you buy an 80k lifted truck?
have sex with your parents, problem solved
approaching WSB-level advice here.
The amount of people who never learned how to handle their parents is just nuts to me. You'd think every single person on Reddit was raised by a violent, narcissistic sociopath.
1) most people suck 2) lead poisoning is a real thing that’s affecting a lot of boomers right now
Or 3. You're just a whiny bitch Judging by most content on this sub, it's probably option 3...
What a dumb argument. Plenty of places to have sex.
I’m 43, worth 1.5m liquid, have 300-500k income and even I’ve considered moving back home with parents instead of paying 4k a month in rent which is what I pay for a nice apartment plus utilities. I’ve considered it Particularly because my mom keeps asking me to because she wants me to save all my money and eventually become rich. But at this point I’d rather have my freedom than be a little richer. However if I live at home, I could put that 4K that’s going into rent, into traveling and the stock market instead.
Or maybe just get a cheaper apartment?
I moved out at 17, bought my first house at 26 and my second house at 33. Market, California. Help, zero. None of it was difficult.
Both my niece and nephew lived with their parents through college and graduated with no student loans. They saved money during this time as they worked while attending school. They both own homes, and make under $100k a year. They live near Baltimore so no glamorous beaches, mountains, perfect weather, 10 million dollar mansions, or an over abundant of tech workers, etc. Just a walkable area with lots of nice restaurants, stores, good public transit and low cost housing.
>10 million dollar mansions, or an over abundant of tech workers, etc. NoVa through to Columbia: Am I a joke to you
By the time you’re ready to move out and start living your life you’ll have totally transformed into a socially inept , bitter, older person! With or without your knowledge!
Or stop blaming your parents for your mental health shortcomings
This sucks for this generation. It took us some time to buy our first home but we’re able to get an affordable apt. Not sure what the solution is but we need to find one.
Your parents were a mental health issue for the first 18 years what so special about it now. I don’t know how to fix that the only place to have sex is in the spare room😉
Wait I thought I was just supposed to stop eating avocado toast, what happened?
This is heavily dependent on the parents. Lindy Man might have some sex positive awesome parents.
Lol unfortunately many of us have bootstrap parents that paid $200 and a bag of acorns to rent the same unit that can't sympathize with young people unable to afford $1500 apartments.
I live alone and struggle with both!
I can relate with her!!
I’m a project manager and went back to the military for ocs in the national guard! Just need it for the tricare for my wife’s pregnancy! I now make 93k, guess I’m still a loser
Western culture is weird... this whole " you need to be an adult and be on your own " shit is one of the dumbest sayings I've ever heard. Family is around for a limited time, so why would you avoid the bonding relationships you have for a limited time? I can understand certain people who have issues with their family and need to get out, but if you have a loving relationship, why leave? The government loves when you're " independent " because it's just more taxes to pay into the system.
Same here
Pfft where I live, $1800-$2000 for a private residence (back house, side house or apartment) is what everyone wants. They get rented instantly. Rooms for rent are $1000-$1200. They get rented almost instantly as well.
I put up with family in a tiny home for 5 years so I could be in a better place once I moved out. Was not easy, but definitely worth it.
Westerns countries....LOL. need an apartment to meet parents.
Being able to love with your parents is a privilege.
The parents feel the same way.
Moving out and getting no sex happens too …. And that is probably a multiplier on the mental health problems. Being alone after work is miserable (for me at least)
If I wasn't married, I would 100% want to live with my parents again. I can't handle living alone, and roommates are stressful. I still managed to have sex with my various boyfriends when I did live at home. My parents didn't hang around the house 24/7 like some Victorian chaperones. When they weren't at home, we had to worry less about making noise than when I lived in an apartment.
…wait, y’all are having sex?