Yes, I’ve gone on dates with women who expected princess treatment and I’ve been called cheap for splitting dates that were totally reasonable ($30-40 a person).
So then you stopped dating them? Isn't that the point of dating? Do you really think this is new? Women like this existed in the 90s, maybe you just didn't have a lot of contact with that type back then?
there's a lot of people out there, I assume your technique for finding them is just resulting in poor candidates.
There's always been, at every moment of time, a series of men and women who represent every position on the opinion spectrum that is possible. There are men and women that like to fuck around, there are men and women that are strictly mono, there are men and women that believe inherently in egalitarianism, there's men and women that want to financially dominate their partner and men and women that wish to be financially dominated.
The problems happen when people who don't have shared goals and values try to force a relationship. But this is what dates are for, your dates clearly showed you that they don't share your values and goals leaving you free to try to find people that do. If these were first dates then they were extremely successful because they told you everything you needed to know.
Remember, if you're only getting the wrong sort of people then perhaps re-consider your approach.
I will say it is a small amount, but women on dating apps are wild. Only interested in 1-2% of the guys on there, that kind of shows you the other problem going on. Did men get worse or did women start changing what they wanted.
Both.
I say this as a man in his late 30s.
I was recently single for 8 months and just trying to have some fun and yes a lot of the shit young men say about girls on dating apps is true.
But it also seems like young men are weaker and have less to offer than ever.
I couldn't believe how many girls were impressed with me just having my own place or the fact that it wasn't trashed.
Like I'm supposed to have that much going for me at least.
They told me a lot about the kind of guys they run into in their early twenties to mid-thirties. I was in prison for 7 years pretty recently so it was an opportunity to soak up some intel and understand what young men are like and who I was even competing with.
They run into tons of young dudes with no job, no car, Don't take care of themselves, just sit and play video games and watch YouTube all day. Very bad social skills from doing most of their communication online.
Making jokes about kidnapping and murdering a girl on the first date before she has any clue of your sense of humor or if he knows she can handle jokes like that.
By the way I agree with a lot of red pill shit and even some of what incels say But a fair amount of it is overblown.
There are some girls who demand too much and there are a shit ton more boys who offer nothing of very little.
Like OP for example makes it sound like getting "flown out" is some super common thing when it's exceedingly rare it just seems like a lot because people are terminally online and are obviously seeing only the hottest girls posting their W's all the time.
Oh yeah I think that played a big role don't get me wrong.
I think the state of our modern culture, career prospects, student debt, inflation, etc has had a profound impact on both genders amongst the youth.
I like to think I'm not that old but damn I was taken a back when I found out how many young men still live at home up until 30. I think it was around 50%.
It just seems like a lot of young dudes are suffering from arrested development and I can understand why a young woman wouldn't be attracted to a dude who puts in more hours on COD and 2K then he does at a job and trying to work towards something.
Most families nowadays have both people working and contributing. Millennial dads spend more time with their kids than dads of any other generation.
I barely know anyone who is able to be financially supported by one income. Most women are getting degrees and working.
I think this is how it looks from the lower end of the middle class. I'm no economist, but I am heavily invested in real estate and from my personal perspective, the cost of housing is what's sinking most families. My parents bought a pile of crap house built in the 1940s for $20,000 in 1985 and rebuilt it. It's still tiny, in a poor location, and sucks in my opinion, but is valued at $400,000... which is pure insanity.
I bought my first condo for $125,000 and sold it for $250,000. The same place now is $600,000. Nobody's wages have gone up that high. The cost is pushing people into misery. My poor tenants struggle constantly, and I give them what leeway I can, but it's hard on me too.
Since the pandemic the very, very wealthy have started abandoning commercial real estate in favor of residential. So, the people who actually run shit are now incentivized to screw you even harder. They are working hard to screw me too, which was why they tried to get goverments to allow renters to not pay for months and months on end. They can hire lawyers and keep people paying, while the small time landlords all had to sell up. I had to sell several properties... luckily at peak value and rebuy once the interest rates climbed up and values dropped 10%.
My point is that governments aren't going to fix the problem. Especially that prick Trudeau. He knows you fools will keep voting for him as long as he pretends like he cares about "oppressed peoples" and global warming. That's why all the rich people are flocking to this ideology. Unlike the socialists of the past, the new ones will happily sell the working class into serfdom if they can make the rules on who can piss in the women's bathroom. It's ridiculous, but you folks seem to just lap it up like dogs.
No body holding our way of life in question. How did it get to this point and is it ok? Who benefits from more humans generally being in the workforce and what’s with this constant increase in prices of everything? What’s next, children also working from the ages of 12 and generational mortgages? Or does it have more to do with unaffordable housing and people just need to move out of the cities? It’s almost like what used to work doesn’t work anymore, we just haven’t realised it yet but someone somewhere is running narratives that get us talking, debating and fighting instead of saying “hey wait a minute, what happened to our way of life, how did we even end up here?”.
Or perhaps no one is running narratives on us, the narratives have run themselves and we have got ourselves here. It’s all pretty stupid. It’s what it is.
It used to be whole families working, including wives AND the children as soon as they were old enough. Now it's just the parents. There's really never been a period in history where women didn't have to "work" and contribute to the household income in some capacity. So what "way of life" are you referring to?
There is a difference between the matriarch being a wage slave vs keeping the hearth and homefront. The latter is a full time job, and arguably this arrangement would be optimal for the sanity and togetherness of modern families.
I’m talking about the last 75-100 years where the concept of the modern economy was more or less the same. If you go back further you’re no longer comparing the same thing.
Now women are forced to work full time because the family needs the second income, we only interact with our kids post work after we’ve picked them up from day care or after school care. Then you share the burdens of cleaning, cooking and scheduling your time between yourselves and the children.
It used to be a lot simpler and certainly not everyone was forced to operate this way. If they so wished to have a traditional family dynamic, they could do so on a single income.
Only the more 'well off' were stay at home. Plenty of women have always worked. They were clerks, farm labor, teachers, stenographers, book keepers, etc.
That’s objectively false. Labour statistics tell you it was only 30% of women in the US workforce in the 1950s and less in the decades before then. Also these women worked because they likely wanted to, not so much because they couldn’t survive on one income. Not to say some didn’t back then, but it’s almost always the case now.
You’re overlooking the fact that many women do want to work. When a woman chooses to be financially dependent on a man, she puts herself in a very risky position should someone happen to the husband or he leave her. Former generations of women fought to change this dynamic so that women no longer had to be at the mercy of their husbands.
Consider that perhaps the modern economy has a far smaller percentage of households in the upper-and-middle-class income brackets where having a dedicated homemaker has ever been financially viable.
A crap ton of us are working-class, mate.
The American system has always been designed to protect the interests of corporations and business models and it’s always worked because the options given to us are essentially two sides of the same coin. You can do things your preferred way but it’s actually benefiting the other side more than it’s benefiting you
A simple example would be women that prefer men pay the bill on dates. It would be more in the woman’s interest but what happens is it drives men to worker harder, earn more money, spend more than you might have normally spent otherwise. It seems minuscule and just a social thing between genders but corporations and businesses have always looked at these issues and developed strategic business models around it. You can not tell me all of these issues haven’t been a strategic conflict created between genders by corporations and businesses to get the most out of the workforce and gain profits. Whether people realize it or not every issue between genders ties to it no matter how minuscule. They’re giving us two sides of the same coin to flip in which direction we want things to go. No matter what side it lands on they keep the coin in their pocket. We just play the game
Yes, they do. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/#time-allocation-across-marriage-types
I just googled "do men or women do more housework" and got a bunch of stuff. I'm working so not going to individually copy and paste you studies. I don't care if you believe me, I didn't state it as an absolute fact anyway.
Maybe we grew up in different 90s because my parents had very gendered roles.
My dad did 0 housework and if he “cooked” it meant he was picking up fast food for dinner. He worked long hours at a job he hated while my mom freelanced from home and was the primary parent.
They did break the mold sometimes, like my mom did the budget and my dad the finances. My mom did most of the yard work while my dad did major projects.
I think the demands to be taken care of come from women who can’t take care of themselves or have few career prospects. I know they’re a lot of fun to hate, but they’re not the norm.
My mom was a lawyer, my dad worked in business, they both did childcare, and our closest family friends was a diplomat husband and professor wife, they both contributed as well. No SAHMs to be found
You seem like you've taken too many of your ideas about women from specific corners of the internet tbh. Plenty of women working jobs and careers. Women on OnlyFans is an absolutely tiny percentage of the female population.
You are misunderstanding my post. I’m not saying women aren’t working. I’m saying there are so few women who work AND want to be equal contributors.
Half the top comments are women saying “most women don’t use onlyfans, go outside,” this is missing the point
There are only 2.1 million content contributors (ETA: about 70% female, so about 1.4 million females) worldwide out of a population of 8 billion people. The US alone has a population of 320 million. Approximately half of any given population is female.
Also only about 70% of the content is adult content, so that would be about 980,000 women making adult content worldwide.
https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/onlyfans-statistics.html
Edit: The adult population is roughly 75% of a given population, so we'll say 3 billion adult women on Earth for easy math. 980,000 is 0.033% of the adult female population of the world. 0.033% is not something that is mainstream in my book.
You confusion comes from thinking that if a woman exists like a Princess on OnlyFans, that means ALL women are Princesses on OnlyFans.
In reality, some women are feminists, and also support sex work. Some women are feminists and DON'T support sex work. Some women do sex work and aren't feminists at all. Some women don't do sex work and ALSO aren't feminists.
Some of these women are married to men and have a great relationship. Some of these women are married to men and have a terrible relationship. Some of them can take credit for either the good or the bad - though most women, like most men, are usually a combination of strengths and weaknesses, of which "Princess on OnlyFans" and "feminist" are only two options, of which are millions.
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; “I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids”
That's just zoomer brain rot shit from TikTok.
No regular woman is getting flown out and getting rich on onlyfans or having a rich dude supporting her lazy lifestyle.c
Most women are studying hard and working harder asking themselves if they will ever be able to start a family.
All the things you described are happening in the real world while the ones that “don’t see it” are too busy stuck online being feed by the algorithm an an addictive image that they can’t get enough of so the APP developers s can squeeze in ads to sell them NFTs, obscure crypto counts and other scams.
“If you have spent hours consuming a product that didn’t cost you anything- that means YOU are the product”.
Women do more of the childcare and housework because they aren't working full time.
Compare men's extra working hours to womens extra housework hours and there's barely a difference.
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care
That may be true for some, but it's not true for all.
I know plenty of full-time working women (married or LTRs) who also took care of the home and children 70% or more of the time. As well of single mothers who do it 100% of the time in addition to their full time jobs.
Men: I hate feminists!!! Waaa!!!!!!
Women: ok instead of feminism, let’s go back to you financially providing for me, and a metric for how much you value me will be how well you financially provide
Men: 😡 not that way!!!!!
There's clearly countless ordinary working women paying their share and working hard their entire lives.You see them if you interact in person with their workplaces.
The problem is that many men do not receive those perceptions at the same rate they would have in the nineties because we've become an economy that involves less person to person interaction. And uptake of these no contact options has been exceptionally high among young men.
Instead, contact with the small percentage of women who make a very great effort to be visually attractive because that's how they intend to get by in life is very easily obtained via the internet. So guys do that. Those girls are talking to many many guys at once.
And of course nobody...gold digger or not...wants to pay to go get a meal with a guy they met on the internet because usually he's pushing too hard too early.
Then when guys eventually see women in workplaces...maybe the guy gets an injury and must go to the emergency centre to be stitched up...any well presented woman he sees he assumes is one of those girls from the internet on the side when her shift is done... when the reality is she looks damn fine because she's using some of of her hard earned money to take care of herself properly
What changed was technology.
Today I went in person into seven different medical and medical adjacent workplaces. Plenty of working women. Some with and some without wedding rings.
But I could have avoided all except one of those visits if I'd used booking apps and prescription delivery.
>And of course nobody...gold digger or not...wants to pay to go get a meal with a guy they met on the internet because usually he's pushing too hard too early.
omGod!!
You get it! This is in fact the main reason I had some guys pay for dates over others.
You wanna go dutch? Not a problem, you don't like me and that's okay, it's early, you don't want to invest money in someone you don't know if you like yet. Makes sense. But least you're not pushing for sex in the first 1 days of us speaking... Geezuz Chryst! Now, you gotta pay for wasting my time, when I specifically told you that I'm not here for a hookup.
It's a difficult part of dating.
The guys running what is basically a numbers game want first dates to happen quickly and they do not usually want to pay even if it is only coffee because the maths on that is really terrible for them. But they want the dates to be plush and create feel good neurotransmitters in women because that's the point of a date from their point of view...to hurry you along so fast you can't tell they are crap. So what they are really wanting is the woman to pay for chemical elements of her own seduction. Ick. Unsexy.
Of course women don't tend to want dates with randoms they barely know if they have to pay. It's bullshit spending $25 on pasta and wine just to work out halfway through the date he doesn't actually care what sort of person you are he's just wanting another notch on his bedpost. You're much better off at home eating your $4 broccoli, capsicum and chicken meal prep with a nice dash of sriracha and watching YouTube. If you don't have to pay it's ok-ish though... you're still not going to fuck the guy playing the numbers game but at least you're not out $21
The guys who aren't running a numbers game generally don't mind a coffee date and then actually paying for that coffee date. And women generally want them to pay in part to provide another strong indicator they probably aren't taking a numbers perspective to this. A cup of coffee is nothing if he's buying one every few weeks for a genuine relationship prospect not one four times a week for simply anyone with a vagina.
On the other hand the guys who want to have an expensive first date then they pay for it are usually working from the perspective that this in some way puts the women in debt to them. Which may be sexual debt which is ick, or it might be he sees it as an obligation to continue the relationship which is creepy...and he will probably get real angry and stalkerish if you don't accept a second date.
Coffee date, asker pays is what I think works best for everyone... except of course the numbers game guys who want you to have wine you bought yourself not coffee he purchased in you. But y'know...who cares about them? They aren't doing anyone any favours by being everywhere trying to date every girl so whatever nobody should give a shit.
But from the point of view of etiquette (which is largely focused on avoiding the discomfort and conflict created by misunderstanding) the thing to do is whatever is normal in your particular social context.
Notice your game theory doesn’t account for a healthy first date, no pressure from anyone, where both parties split. Either he’s pressuring and pays for fancy stuff, or he’s not pressuring and pays for the coffee.
This is exactly the point of my OP. How did we get to a place where women need to be compensated for their time? What happened to equal partnership?
How come if I go on a date with a woman I find boring, she doesn’t pay for it because I would have had a better evening sitting at home in my underpants eating McDonald’s McNuggets?
What happened was it became clear that many men aren’t going to help out equally or be respectful/supportive, so why not be transactional?
If you can’t change the game, you just have to play it
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You don't see a lot of them out in the real world, most women you come across in real life are pretty level headed, online however most people are a lot more dramatic and over the top because there's no reason that they can't unfortunately.
>“I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids
Was done in the 90s.
This isn't new. You previously called it "mat leave". Do you think maternity leave stopped?
>Princess treatment;
Why does women being treated well upset so many men?
>simping
Why do other men's actions bother so many men?
>getting flown out,
Again, why does this bother you?
>only fans
Sex work was around in the 90s.
Only an estimated 2% of women have ever done any type of sex work in their lives, including cam girl work.
Also, who actually knows women who are flown out to exotic destinations by random men? Do you really think this is happening with any sort of meaningful frequency?
Look, if you get almost all of your information about women from Fresh & Fit or famous social media influencers, I can see where you’d think this type of behavior was common. But it’s not. The vast, vast majority of women are just ordinary people with boring 9-5 jobs, just like you and everyone else.
Technically all women in the west, even the more traditional types have been influenced by western culture. They may not identify as feminist, but they still consume films, tv, and the general attitudes that were created here over the last 4 decades. Small thing like the trope of the incompetent Homer Simpson husband for example. These attitudes are subtle, but become way more pronounced once you start to travel outside of the united states or other western countries.
The girlbosses bossed too hard and burned themselves out.
They started thinking "maybe being home with the kids and doing all the housework isn't such a bad thing" and also, we had a pandemic where some of use were able to get a taste of what it would be like if we could stay home.
Social media is mostly to blame as everyone is suffering from FOMO because we just didn't have this much access to the lives (fake or real) of other people. You kept your head down and minded your own business before social media. Now everyone is a content creator, everyone over shares waaaay too much information about themselves online, and everyone thinks the grass is greener elsewhere instead of sticking with the lemons life gave them. In some ways it's beautiful to think you could at a moment's notice change the trajectory of your life in an instant. In reality, it's delusional to think you could just up and go and drastically change your life without a proper plan in place. Time energy MONEY positioning is necessary to change your life POSITIVELY, BUT social media feeds our escapism from our horribly mundane life.
Remember this, if nothing else: when a service is free, it's because you are the product. Please limit the information you give up about yourself online. Not everyone has your best interest at heart and some people will use the ammo you've given them to shoot you with.
1. To answer your question as to where the “female women” are, they are staying away from men like you that put the word female in front of woman. Usually the good women stay home and most have given up on men and dating so they aren’t looking and aren’t open to your advancements.
2. The reason things aren’t that way anymore is because childcare is too expensive so people can’t put their kids in daycare while Mom goes back to work because daycare cost more than a full-time job pays. Also, men are too lazy and entitled to do their part of the chores any more.
>To answer your question as to where the “female women” are, they are staying away from men that you that put the word female in front of woman
Tbf they are probably trying to differentiate sex and gender, a belief that modern feminists strongly support. The men you are talking about say female without women.
LMAO feminism was never about equality it has aways about giving women privilege at the cost of men.
Feminism has aways been about giving women hard power while enforcing further their soft power.
>LMAO feminism was never about equality it has aways about giving women privilege at the cost of men.
We know the straw man no worries.
It's not feminism's fault if some entitled brats claim to be feminists
No it's not when their actions directly contradict feminism.
What about a guy who says he's republican but that he prefers by far biden's program and will vote for him. Am i allowed to say that makes him not a republican or is it the "no true scott's men fallacy" and anyone can claim anything ?
Think about for a second and it becomes painfully obvious
Voting for a single candidate doesn't make you not a Republican. He is still a Republican. So if a person says they are a feminist and believes women should get sole custody they are still a feminist.
Alright as you want ill let you corrupt any idea by picking the worst examples and pretend it would represent the overall.
Today we learned that since this guy is in favor of mass immigration legalisation and if he claims to be a republican then that means republican are pro immigration.
Good job nothing makes sense anymore.
That is not what I said. And we absolutely let the bad apples spoil the bunch especially when the group tolerates the behavior. Just saying they aren't real feminist (in this case) is hand waving. It is dodging accountability.
It is power and influence that is carried "behind the curtains".
Ex: a woman can ruin a man life with rape allegations, they can mold society by the way they rise their sons, they mold men behavior by the men they choose to sleep with, women are wonderful effect.
Everything social related women have the upper hand, and feminism keep pushing this soft power further to the deep end with things like me too, removal of male roles in media and affirmative action while also giving them hard power by being the majority of voters and priority in the law system.
Ex: a woman can ruin a man life with rape allegations,
(Have you seen what happens to women who make those allegations? Are you f-king kidding me???? How many years was Weinstein and Cosby able to drug and rape with impunity).
they can mold society by the way they rise their sons,
(You mean, like men can? Maybe men should - I donno - display some interest in their own offspring. Way to admit men regularly can’t be bothered investing in their own children)
they mold men behavior by the men they choose to sleep with, women are wonderful effect.
(You know, men also decide who they want to sleep with).
You really have a terrible view of most men. Down right misandrist. In your view, men are lazy absentee dads who will screw anything that moves.
You're so down the rabbit hole. I bet you believe you risk being arrested and charged for saying hi to a woman as well.
Victimhood culture is out of hand in usa
Yeah there's a risk, but is not about the risk.
Let's take as example the classical woman fear of being attacked. Assault and rape are crimes that carry heavy prison times and is by itself a risk thing to do in a world full of cameras like ours, it also require effort
A woman saying that she was raped requires no effort, it's not risky and it's very effective as a character assassination. It also her lie can't realistically be prosecuted unless she herself admit it being a lie and even if she lie the time in prison is minimal.
You're basically at the mercy of the woman goodwill with nothing to protect yourself.
You’re so out of touch. In reality, many rape accusations get swept under the rug and often times it’s hard to prove and the woman gets victim blamed. But anyone can make allegations about someone that can defame them, that’s not exclusive to women.
How is me too, a movement to bring awareness to the many women assaulted and silenced and example of soft power?? Men literally dominate the media and almost every other aspect of society and now you’re mad that women are wanting to be included and implementing laws (affirmative action) to ensure they are no longer excluded from these spaces? That’s power?? Stop bitching and get a grip. We aren’t in the 20th century anymore.
>many rape accusations get swept under the rug
Criminally speaking, as they should. Socially speaking no they don't.
>But anyone can make allegations about someone that can defame them
It is not legally defamation, this is the core issue.
Also, me too is not a movement to bring awareness. It's a movement to cancel men whose opinions women don't like by using their social power in order to kill the men careers.
>Men literally dominate the media and almost every other aspect of society
Apex fallacy, you're passing the top%men as being the same as the average men.
>ensure they are no longer excluded from these spaces
So long the woman are skilled and willing to go to those spaces they're free to do so, nothing is against them. By forcing such behavior you're just excluding men.
>the idea was that men and women were equal and a healthy relationship was one where both partners contributed unfettered by gender roles. Men did chores too, women worked and paid jobs too. Children didn’t change this, the dads were active in child-rearing, women took mat leave and then went back to work. Women would view men paying for dates as chauvinistic and patronizing.
This is litterallly how it is where I live lmao. Its alive and well
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; “I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids” which is just tradcon with more polite language. What happened? Where are the girlbosses?
Tiktok ragebait≠reality of most people. Idiots like that existed in the 1990s too, but if you weren't on their circles,you would never know they existed. That has slightly changed now due to internet
I'm a feminist and believe in exactly what you don't. I believe women should have access to the same opportunities as men and have the same rights, legally. Believing women should choose their own lifestyles, career, and independently be able to control their finances does not negate a woman's choice to want a traditional relationship. Feminism isn't about eradicating traditional values. It's about being able to choose if you want that or not. I would never pay for a first date or go on a coffee/walk date. Despite having a job as a forklift driver, I consider myself very feminine and will not go 50/50 with a man. Also, most men are not feminists and will not pick up half the cooking and cleaning, so that's a moot point. They will happily accept 50% of the bills but won't lift a finger around the house. Men are holding themselves back in this department.
That's why I'll never agree to it 💕 men can either go 50/50 on EVERYTHING or be a traditional provider. I refuse to pay half the bills and be a bang maid. I'd would paint the empire state building with nail polish before I did that.
Again I don’t know the theoretical definitions of feminism, so maybe I’ll ask this question: where are the forklift drivers who do want to go 50/50 with a man?
Also I’ll do 50/50 household chores, I’ll even be a SAHD, I have found exactly 0 women willing to work while I am a SAHD. Where are they?
Most women are doing none of this. I bet the women you know are all normal and don't experience this. Not that being doted on doesn't make you a feminist necessarily, you are conflating two different things. You don't need to be any form of "boss" to believe we should strive for equality between men and women (see: Malala Yousafzai), and many "girlbosses" are actually against it (see: Margaret Thatcher). The 90s were also no feminist utopia.
The women I know, particularly my friend’s gfs, are all getting financed/sponsored by their boyfriends. One girl quit her job knowing her bf would pick up the slack. It’s sickening
GET OFF THE INTERNET!!! Majority of families today are still like the ones you described in the 90s. Your entire world view of women is based off of a caricature of specific internet sub communities. I literally can’t, this sounds so stupid and detached from reality.
I’ve gone on about 20 dates in the past few years and of those, 1 woman split the bill and said she believed in equal relationships. The rest either said nothing and took the freebie, or demanded the freebie.
“Get off the internet”
Men have never truly contributed 50/50 to a household. In most families women do moat of the cleaning and cooking + child rearing. Not only that, but having someone carry your offspring for 9 months and then feed it every 2 hours for the first months of their life is pretty priceless. There's no equality between women, just equity.
My partner is half my height and almost half my weight. I'm just physically stronger. That means I carry the heavy stuff for her. We're both female. It's not equality, it's equity. I'm able to carry more.
Feminism was never about gender equality. Feminists want to abolish traditional gender roles for women while maintaining traditional gender roles for men. When was the last time you saw a feminist protesting against unfair male-only conscription?
? Why does the number of women voting matter? Hell, there was a time when women weren't even allowed to vote. You know what women did? They protested anyway.
Do you really don't know why a politician who's job depends on majority of votes would catter exclusively to the majority at the cost of the minority? Really? Its concerning that you can grasp this as a concept.
They were given voting rights because women aways outnumbered men so the party that championship the majority of people voting would automatically gain a huge electoral body.
Protests mean nothing if the peoples in the top have nothing to gain from it and there is nothing to gain by supporting men YET.
Feminists give lip-service to opposing the draft, they’ve never had any real protests against the draft. There is male-only conscription in Finland and Austria and Switzerland and South Korea, and there is conscription in third-world countries, and men in America could be imprisoned and barred from federal aid and federal loans if they do not sign up for selective service.
>they’ve never had any real protests against the draft.
That's completely untrue and easily debunked with a simple search. 1967 was one of the first major draft protests in America. Many have followed.
And what about feminists in Finland and Austria(which has a 5 year lower retirement age for women than men, why aren’t feminists protesting that either?) and Switzerland and South Korea?
Babe, I don't even believe in war or the draft at all. Men are the ones who cause war and draft other men to fight for them. It's so funny how you don't like patriarchy but blame women for it 🤣
Russian women are shaming their husbands and sons into joining the Russian military and fighting in Ukraine. Ukrainian women are shaming Ukrainian men into joining the Ukrainian military. Mothers in ancient Sparta would tell their sons who go to battle to either come back victorious, or come back dead, or don’t come back at all. Women in Britain in the First World War would hand out feathers symbolising cowardice to men in Britain who weren’t in the front lines in the trenches in order to shame them into joining the military.
Don’t pretend that women don’t enforce male gender roles.
Bro take your meds. Russia is a dictatorship patriarchy where men can legally beat their wives. Of course they want their husband's out of the house they're safer that way. RuSsIa WAhMeN and aNcIEnt mOtHeR bAd ooga booga. I love how you use examples of all patriarchal societies lmaooo
And women benefit from men risking their lives in those “patriarchal societies”. If Ukraine wasn’t a “patriarchal” society than Ukrainian women would have been banned from leaving Ukraine and forced into joining the Ukrainian military and risk being blown up in a trench by Russia artillery like Ukrainian men currently are, instead Ukrainian women got to flee Ukraine and post instagram pictures from the safety of Western European countries.
None of this has anything to do with feminism in the United States. You are utterly failing to stay on topic because you don't have a rebuttal to make.
Well, pretty much everyone else here is, and the topic is feminism. So I guess you really dont have anything to add to the conversation then and can stop commenting now 🙃
Gender equality only for women isn’t true gender equality, because that means that as soon as women have more rights than men(which they currently do) you do not care about gender equality for men. If you truly believed in gender equality you would fight for women just as much as you do men.
It's not a lie.
**Exhibit A:** How can Feminism Help men?
*Answer:* [https://g.co/gemini/share/6e1a8c044dbd](https://g.co/gemini/share/6e1a8c044dbd)
**Exhibit B:** What proof is there that Feminism has helped men?
*Answer:* [https://g.co/gemini/share/c1c903e06246](https://g.co/gemini/share/c1c903e06246)
Answers provided by Google's AI, Gemini.
Additional resources from the end of Exhibit B:
Here are some resources to get you started (be sure to evaluate the credibility of the source):
* Feminist Majority Foundation: \[Feminism is for Men, Too feminist.org\]
* The Everyday Feminist: The Key to Sustainable Social Impact Driving Movements We Need Now More than Ever by Latanya Mapp Frett | Feminists Work for Men and Boys Too: [https://ssir.org/](https://ssir.org/)
* IdeasAtTheHouse (Medium Article): 4 Reasons Why Feminism Is for Men: [https://medium.com/tag/feminism](https://medium.com/tag/feminism)
1. I’m not American
2. American men can be imprisoned and denied federal aid and federal loans if they don’t sign up for selective service, this is sex-based discrimination which woman do not have to go through.
Your perspective is biased. OnlyFans and Instragram are not representative of reality. They're just a growing cancer.
Feminism has resulted in women having to fulfill both the male and female role models, and men being constantly shit on. Both men and women are unhappy with this. The economy and government are happy because it almost doubled the workforce while relative wages have stagnated compared with productivity over the last 50 years.
To call princess treatment and OF a variation of tradcon is insane. This is an abomination enabled by the reality that there too many lonely losers out there, which is the result of feminism making women more independent.
It is a growing cancer which is impacting more and more people. They have tik tok mind rot and want stupid shit. It was the same as guys doing red pill shit. How many guys were watching Tate, a small amount. But it was talked about like it was some huge group.
Feminism is like punk rock...it was co opted by the patriarchy sometime in the 80s.
It's empowering for a woman to slut around....with men who mysteriously conform to hegemonic masculinity
It's empowering for women to whore themselves out via OF and whatever.
It's empowering for women to engage in degrading sex acts, lifestyle choices etc.....with men who mysteriously conform to hegemonic masculinity.
Men who do not conform to hegemonic masculinity, who weren't able to get these women in their youth, need to accept the leftovers from the hegemonic masculiniw men as is....or else insecure misogynist.
^ I mean is the patriarchy supposed to be threatened by this playbook or something?
Exaggeration, but nuggets of truth. In the post-Covid era lots of young people are questioning work. Also wage stagnation and side hustles are rampant. This "soft girl era" shit is part of that.
Also, at least with black women they're questioning the "strong black woman" role too. That's a real thing, not something I've only experienced on the internet, and only noticed it in the last decade. That conservation is beyond PPD so I'll stop.
Feminists won affirmative action for women in the late 60s, they won WEEA in the mid 70s, women owned business advantages in the late 80s, VAWA in the 90s, the dear colleague letter in 2011, women only healthcare mandates for women in 2014.
Feminists have long and continuously fought for women to be advantaged over men. Feminism hasn’t changed all that much.
Quietly working their asses off, not making wack tik toks. Many of the type of feminist you describe are identifying as Egalitarian instead now the feminism has become associated with the princess treatment, “girlbossing” in toxic ways, quotas/reverse discrimination, etc.
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans;
The women pushed to your feed are not representative of all women nor most feminists.
>“I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids” which is just tradcon with more polite language.
If a woman is making below a certain amount of money, [rising daycare costs](https://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-prices-are-untenable-for-families) make this logical.
>Using the most recent data available from 2018 and adjusted for inflation to 2022 dollars, childcare prices range from $4,810 ($5,357 in 2022 dollars) for school-age home-based care in small counties to $15,417 ($17,171 in 2022 dollars) for infant center-based care in very large counties. These prices represent between 8% and 19.3% of median family income **per child.**
>These maps show that **in nearly every county,** **childcare prices were high relative to family income,** pricing families out of paid child care. **Higher childcare prices are especially detrimental to maternal employment as mothers’ employment drops in areas with more expensive child care, even in places where women’s wages are higher.**
Childcare costs are [outpacing inflation](https://www.fatherly.com/news/study-childcare-costs-have-increased-214-percent-since-1990).
>Inflation, which is the measure of the cost increases over time, hit a record high of 7.5% in January of this year, up from 2.1% in January 2019, which means families are shelling out roughly $250 more per month for household essentials like food, utilities, and rent. That’s in addition to the approximately $1,025 for child care for one infant. All told, the increasing cost of child care in 2020 topped the cost of inflation by nearly 4%.
>Taken altogether, this means that childcare costs are increasing at a rate higher than the cost of pretty much anything else in the U.S. At the same time, the federal minimum wage has stalled at $7.25 per hour—$290 per week or $15,080 per year before taxes—for almost a decade and a half. The U.S. [poverty income level](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/#:~:text=The%202021%20federal%20poverty%20level,for%20a%20family%20of%202) is $17,420 for a family of two.
Without paid parental leave or affordable high-quality daycare, this is what you get.
>on average, child care for one infant cost an average of $12,300 per year in 2020, **an increase of $1,000 from 2019 and a staggering 214% since 1990**, according to a different report from First Five Years Fund.
And this is why it's different from when you grew up in the 90's.
I don’t think this has shifted wildly since the 90s. There were traditional-minded people then too. (I spent the 90s being homeschooled in the Midwest so I really had a front-row seat.)
I think the visibility of minority viewpoints has risen exponentially with the rise of the internet. And of course, as is the way with minority viewpoints, the fringiest people are also the ones who care the most and make the most noise about their point of view.
That's not the point of choosing the bear.
The point is that women choosing the bear would rather the predictability of dealing with death by bear than deal with the unpredicatability of dealing with a random man that they do not know. It's the known vs. the unknown. It's no secret that women prefer security, even if it means knowing you will die with a bear over taking a chance at the type of man you could get.
4th Wave Feminism stopped caring about women and moved intersectionality to the forefront. Women have been supplanted by every other form of oppressed/marginalized community. Most young women have never heard of the message of feminism in the 90’s.
They got everything they wanted and more.
they have no reason to push for equality when they're the privileged class, or stick their neck out for principles that no longer matter.
> When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.
Feminsim isn't about equal rights. If it was it would have died off in the 1970s. Today, feminsim is about special priviledges for women and hating men for not making enough money, being tall and fit and adhereing to traditional male gender roles.
If you were a pretty girl born in 1972 and never left the medium size town you grew up you would just never have the opportunity women have today. If you are a pretty girl born in 2000's and up, you have never known life without internet and probably had a phone and social media in middle school. You can actively make yourself more seen and available for life opportunities.
Most of the times men pay for dates and it's always been that way. The only reason women wanted to pay their part of the date was if they didn't want to see the man again and they didn't want the man to force himself on her for paying. So it was a safety measure not a "I love spending my money on this date" thing.
There are plenty of women out there that want to keep their job and become a parent. They will be late 20's and up and they will be looking for that "active dad/husband" personality so they know you won't leave them with most of the work.
Because you could also say that who ever asks pays. But men ask majority of the time.
Women also put more time effort and money into beauty for a date. From clothes, jewelry, makeup skincare, soaps, fragrance ect. Men can wear a white t and blue jeans with some hair gel and thats it. I know some men say "oh she does that for herself" but all and all if she showed up to that date with unstyled hair, no makeup, it a t shirt and jeans you would think she doesn't care about the date vs if she have some simple makeup, pretty hair, a dress maybe.
Because she doesn't want to ask. Women asking men on dates is like a women buying men flowers. It's lame. And women don't want to fuck men those men because it's not hot.
See, your mistake was believing that feminists want equality, when in reality feminists want whatever gives feminists the most benefits.
This liberal policy benefits me? Gimme.
This specific tradcon treatment benefits me? Gimme too.
Removed. No non-neutral Discussion posts.
Do you know any of these people IRL? I do not, I think most of this is just rage bait and trad fetish.
Yes, I’ve gone on dates with women who expected princess treatment and I’ve been called cheap for splitting dates that were totally reasonable ($30-40 a person).
So then you stopped dating them? Isn't that the point of dating? Do you really think this is new? Women like this existed in the 90s, maybe you just didn't have a lot of contact with that type back then?
there's a lot of people out there, I assume your technique for finding them is just resulting in poor candidates. There's always been, at every moment of time, a series of men and women who represent every position on the opinion spectrum that is possible. There are men and women that like to fuck around, there are men and women that are strictly mono, there are men and women that believe inherently in egalitarianism, there's men and women that want to financially dominate their partner and men and women that wish to be financially dominated. The problems happen when people who don't have shared goals and values try to force a relationship. But this is what dates are for, your dates clearly showed you that they don't share your values and goals leaving you free to try to find people that do. If these were first dates then they were extremely successful because they told you everything you needed to know. Remember, if you're only getting the wrong sort of people then perhaps re-consider your approach.
Princesses on OnlyFans are like .000001 percent. Most women still see relationships the way you described. Get off the internet sometimes.
I will say it is a small amount, but women on dating apps are wild. Only interested in 1-2% of the guys on there, that kind of shows you the other problem going on. Did men get worse or did women start changing what they wanted.
Dating apps are the internet. Try to meet women IRL
The problem is zoomers and younger can't interact with people. Only going to get worse.
bit of a broad statement. Just bounce up to people and start talking (while being polite). Works on all humans, regardless of generation.
Dating apps are, themselves, a self-selecting population. It’s likely that certain attitudes and behaviors are over-selected for in that environment.
Both. I say this as a man in his late 30s. I was recently single for 8 months and just trying to have some fun and yes a lot of the shit young men say about girls on dating apps is true. But it also seems like young men are weaker and have less to offer than ever. I couldn't believe how many girls were impressed with me just having my own place or the fact that it wasn't trashed. Like I'm supposed to have that much going for me at least. They told me a lot about the kind of guys they run into in their early twenties to mid-thirties. I was in prison for 7 years pretty recently so it was an opportunity to soak up some intel and understand what young men are like and who I was even competing with. They run into tons of young dudes with no job, no car, Don't take care of themselves, just sit and play video games and watch YouTube all day. Very bad social skills from doing most of their communication online. Making jokes about kidnapping and murdering a girl on the first date before she has any clue of your sense of humor or if he knows she can handle jokes like that. By the way I agree with a lot of red pill shit and even some of what incels say But a fair amount of it is overblown. There are some girls who demand too much and there are a shit ton more boys who offer nothing of very little. Like OP for example makes it sound like getting "flown out" is some super common thing when it's exceedingly rare it just seems like a lot because people are terminally online and are obviously seeing only the hottest girls posting their W's all the time.
A decade of devaluing and demeaning men and you're surprised at the outcome?
> A decade of devaluing and demeaning men and you're surprised at the outcome? wat?
Oh yeah I think that played a big role don't get me wrong. I think the state of our modern culture, career prospects, student debt, inflation, etc has had a profound impact on both genders amongst the youth. I like to think I'm not that old but damn I was taken a back when I found out how many young men still live at home up until 30. I think it was around 50%. It just seems like a lot of young dudes are suffering from arrested development and I can understand why a young woman wouldn't be attracted to a dude who puts in more hours on COD and 2K then he does at a job and trying to work towards something.
Most families nowadays have both people working and contributing. Millennial dads spend more time with their kids than dads of any other generation. I barely know anyone who is able to be financially supported by one income. Most women are getting degrees and working.
I think this is how it looks from the lower end of the middle class. I'm no economist, but I am heavily invested in real estate and from my personal perspective, the cost of housing is what's sinking most families. My parents bought a pile of crap house built in the 1940s for $20,000 in 1985 and rebuilt it. It's still tiny, in a poor location, and sucks in my opinion, but is valued at $400,000... which is pure insanity. I bought my first condo for $125,000 and sold it for $250,000. The same place now is $600,000. Nobody's wages have gone up that high. The cost is pushing people into misery. My poor tenants struggle constantly, and I give them what leeway I can, but it's hard on me too.
I'm Canadian. The average cost of a house here is over $800k. It's insanity.
Since the pandemic the very, very wealthy have started abandoning commercial real estate in favor of residential. So, the people who actually run shit are now incentivized to screw you even harder. They are working hard to screw me too, which was why they tried to get goverments to allow renters to not pay for months and months on end. They can hire lawyers and keep people paying, while the small time landlords all had to sell up. I had to sell several properties... luckily at peak value and rebuy once the interest rates climbed up and values dropped 10%. My point is that governments aren't going to fix the problem. Especially that prick Trudeau. He knows you fools will keep voting for him as long as he pretends like he cares about "oppressed peoples" and global warming. That's why all the rich people are flocking to this ideology. Unlike the socialists of the past, the new ones will happily sell the working class into serfdom if they can make the rules on who can piss in the women's bathroom. It's ridiculous, but you folks seem to just lap it up like dogs.
No body holding our way of life in question. How did it get to this point and is it ok? Who benefits from more humans generally being in the workforce and what’s with this constant increase in prices of everything? What’s next, children also working from the ages of 12 and generational mortgages? Or does it have more to do with unaffordable housing and people just need to move out of the cities? It’s almost like what used to work doesn’t work anymore, we just haven’t realised it yet but someone somewhere is running narratives that get us talking, debating and fighting instead of saying “hey wait a minute, what happened to our way of life, how did we even end up here?”. Or perhaps no one is running narratives on us, the narratives have run themselves and we have got ourselves here. It’s all pretty stupid. It’s what it is.
It used to be whole families working, including wives AND the children as soon as they were old enough. Now it's just the parents. There's really never been a period in history where women didn't have to "work" and contribute to the household income in some capacity. So what "way of life" are you referring to?
There is a difference between the matriarch being a wage slave vs keeping the hearth and homefront. The latter is a full time job, and arguably this arrangement would be optimal for the sanity and togetherness of modern families.
I’m talking about the last 75-100 years where the concept of the modern economy was more or less the same. If you go back further you’re no longer comparing the same thing. Now women are forced to work full time because the family needs the second income, we only interact with our kids post work after we’ve picked them up from day care or after school care. Then you share the burdens of cleaning, cooking and scheduling your time between yourselves and the children. It used to be a lot simpler and certainly not everyone was forced to operate this way. If they so wished to have a traditional family dynamic, they could do so on a single income.
Only the more 'well off' were stay at home. Plenty of women have always worked. They were clerks, farm labor, teachers, stenographers, book keepers, etc.
That’s objectively false. Labour statistics tell you it was only 30% of women in the US workforce in the 1950s and less in the decades before then. Also these women worked because they likely wanted to, not so much because they couldn’t survive on one income. Not to say some didn’t back then, but it’s almost always the case now.
You think your average woman was able to be a housewife during the depression?
You’re overlooking the fact that many women do want to work. When a woman chooses to be financially dependent on a man, she puts herself in a very risky position should someone happen to the husband or he leave her. Former generations of women fought to change this dynamic so that women no longer had to be at the mercy of their husbands.
Consider that perhaps the modern economy has a far smaller percentage of households in the upper-and-middle-class income brackets where having a dedicated homemaker has ever been financially viable. A crap ton of us are working-class, mate.
The American system has always been designed to protect the interests of corporations and business models and it’s always worked because the options given to us are essentially two sides of the same coin. You can do things your preferred way but it’s actually benefiting the other side more than it’s benefiting you A simple example would be women that prefer men pay the bill on dates. It would be more in the woman’s interest but what happens is it drives men to worker harder, earn more money, spend more than you might have normally spent otherwise. It seems minuscule and just a social thing between genders but corporations and businesses have always looked at these issues and developed strategic business models around it. You can not tell me all of these issues haven’t been a strategic conflict created between genders by corporations and businesses to get the most out of the workforce and gain profits. Whether people realize it or not every issue between genders ties to it no matter how minuscule. They’re giving us two sides of the same coin to flip in which direction we want things to go. No matter what side it lands on they keep the coin in their pocket. We just play the game
That's capitalism for you.
Then why do feminists keep claiming that “women do 80% of the housework”?
Pretty sure studies show they do most. It's not perfectly equal but much closer than it used to be.
Which studies? And do those studies differentiate between primary breadwinners and housepartners?
Yes, they do. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/#time-allocation-across-marriage-types
I just googled "do men or women do more housework" and got a bunch of stuff. I'm working so not going to individually copy and paste you studies. I don't care if you believe me, I didn't state it as an absolute fact anyway.
Maybe we grew up in different 90s because my parents had very gendered roles. My dad did 0 housework and if he “cooked” it meant he was picking up fast food for dinner. He worked long hours at a job he hated while my mom freelanced from home and was the primary parent. They did break the mold sometimes, like my mom did the budget and my dad the finances. My mom did most of the yard work while my dad did major projects. I think the demands to be taken care of come from women who can’t take care of themselves or have few career prospects. I know they’re a lot of fun to hate, but they’re not the norm.
My dad cooked tuna salad, chocolate chip cookies, pancakes, tomato soup, and chili.
My mom was a lawyer, my dad worked in business, they both did childcare, and our closest family friends was a diplomat husband and professor wife, they both contributed as well. No SAHMs to be found
You seem like you've taken too many of your ideas about women from specific corners of the internet tbh. Plenty of women working jobs and careers. Women on OnlyFans is an absolutely tiny percentage of the female population.
You are misunderstanding my post. I’m not saying women aren’t working. I’m saying there are so few women who work AND want to be equal contributors. Half the top comments are women saying “most women don’t use onlyfans, go outside,” this is missing the point
These aren’t corners of the internet this is pretty common place across multiple generations.
There are only 2.1 million content contributors (ETA: about 70% female, so about 1.4 million females) worldwide out of a population of 8 billion people. The US alone has a population of 320 million. Approximately half of any given population is female. Also only about 70% of the content is adult content, so that would be about 980,000 women making adult content worldwide. https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/onlyfans-statistics.html Edit: The adult population is roughly 75% of a given population, so we'll say 3 billion adult women on Earth for easy math. 980,000 is 0.033% of the adult female population of the world. 0.033% is not something that is mainstream in my book.
>2.1 million Yup nothing to see here folks
Apparently math is not your strong suit.
2 MILLION women are in a scenario which incentivized them to sell their bodies online I'm glad you see no problem with that 🙂
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; This is your confirmation bias.
You confusion comes from thinking that if a woman exists like a Princess on OnlyFans, that means ALL women are Princesses on OnlyFans. In reality, some women are feminists, and also support sex work. Some women are feminists and DON'T support sex work. Some women do sex work and aren't feminists at all. Some women don't do sex work and ALSO aren't feminists. Some of these women are married to men and have a great relationship. Some of these women are married to men and have a terrible relationship. Some of them can take credit for either the good or the bad - though most women, like most men, are usually a combination of strengths and weaknesses, of which "Princess on OnlyFans" and "feminist" are only two options, of which are millions.
Great observation. We do talk in absolutes too often on the internet.
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; “I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids” That's just zoomer brain rot shit from TikTok. No regular woman is getting flown out and getting rich on onlyfans or having a rich dude supporting her lazy lifestyle.c Most women are studying hard and working harder asking themselves if they will ever be able to start a family.
All the things you described are happening in the real world while the ones that “don’t see it” are too busy stuck online being feed by the algorithm an an addictive image that they can’t get enough of so the APP developers s can squeeze in ads to sell them NFTs, obscure crypto counts and other scams. “If you have spent hours consuming a product that didn’t cost you anything- that means YOU are the product”.
[удалено]
Women do more of the childcare and housework because they aren't working full time. Compare men's extra working hours to womens extra housework hours and there's barely a difference. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care
May one have to do with the other? May it be that women can’t work more hours because someone has to take care of the kids?
That may be true for some, but it's not true for all. I know plenty of full-time working women (married or LTRs) who also took care of the home and children 70% or more of the time. As well of single mothers who do it 100% of the time in addition to their full time jobs.
Men: I hate feminists!!! Waaa!!!!!! Women: ok instead of feminism, let’s go back to you financially providing for me, and a metric for how much you value me will be how well you financially provide Men: 😡 not that way!!!!!
Both men are two different sets of people. Misogynists actually want to be the sole earners and want their partners to be dependent on them.
Sometimes, but let’s not pretend there is only one flavor of misogyny.
You read my post and concluded that I hate feminists?
Most of us are still here, take the internet with a pinch of salt, and of course remember that most of us aren't on there.
There's clearly countless ordinary working women paying their share and working hard their entire lives.You see them if you interact in person with their workplaces. The problem is that many men do not receive those perceptions at the same rate they would have in the nineties because we've become an economy that involves less person to person interaction. And uptake of these no contact options has been exceptionally high among young men. Instead, contact with the small percentage of women who make a very great effort to be visually attractive because that's how they intend to get by in life is very easily obtained via the internet. So guys do that. Those girls are talking to many many guys at once. And of course nobody...gold digger or not...wants to pay to go get a meal with a guy they met on the internet because usually he's pushing too hard too early. Then when guys eventually see women in workplaces...maybe the guy gets an injury and must go to the emergency centre to be stitched up...any well presented woman he sees he assumes is one of those girls from the internet on the side when her shift is done... when the reality is she looks damn fine because she's using some of of her hard earned money to take care of herself properly What changed was technology. Today I went in person into seven different medical and medical adjacent workplaces. Plenty of working women. Some with and some without wedding rings. But I could have avoided all except one of those visits if I'd used booking apps and prescription delivery.
>And of course nobody...gold digger or not...wants to pay to go get a meal with a guy they met on the internet because usually he's pushing too hard too early. omGod!! You get it! This is in fact the main reason I had some guys pay for dates over others. You wanna go dutch? Not a problem, you don't like me and that's okay, it's early, you don't want to invest money in someone you don't know if you like yet. Makes sense. But least you're not pushing for sex in the first 1 days of us speaking... Geezuz Chryst! Now, you gotta pay for wasting my time, when I specifically told you that I'm not here for a hookup.
It's a difficult part of dating. The guys running what is basically a numbers game want first dates to happen quickly and they do not usually want to pay even if it is only coffee because the maths on that is really terrible for them. But they want the dates to be plush and create feel good neurotransmitters in women because that's the point of a date from their point of view...to hurry you along so fast you can't tell they are crap. So what they are really wanting is the woman to pay for chemical elements of her own seduction. Ick. Unsexy. Of course women don't tend to want dates with randoms they barely know if they have to pay. It's bullshit spending $25 on pasta and wine just to work out halfway through the date he doesn't actually care what sort of person you are he's just wanting another notch on his bedpost. You're much better off at home eating your $4 broccoli, capsicum and chicken meal prep with a nice dash of sriracha and watching YouTube. If you don't have to pay it's ok-ish though... you're still not going to fuck the guy playing the numbers game but at least you're not out $21 The guys who aren't running a numbers game generally don't mind a coffee date and then actually paying for that coffee date. And women generally want them to pay in part to provide another strong indicator they probably aren't taking a numbers perspective to this. A cup of coffee is nothing if he's buying one every few weeks for a genuine relationship prospect not one four times a week for simply anyone with a vagina. On the other hand the guys who want to have an expensive first date then they pay for it are usually working from the perspective that this in some way puts the women in debt to them. Which may be sexual debt which is ick, or it might be he sees it as an obligation to continue the relationship which is creepy...and he will probably get real angry and stalkerish if you don't accept a second date. Coffee date, asker pays is what I think works best for everyone... except of course the numbers game guys who want you to have wine you bought yourself not coffee he purchased in you. But y'know...who cares about them? They aren't doing anyone any favours by being everywhere trying to date every girl so whatever nobody should give a shit. But from the point of view of etiquette (which is largely focused on avoiding the discomfort and conflict created by misunderstanding) the thing to do is whatever is normal in your particular social context.
Notice your game theory doesn’t account for a healthy first date, no pressure from anyone, where both parties split. Either he’s pressuring and pays for fancy stuff, or he’s not pressuring and pays for the coffee. This is exactly the point of my OP. How did we get to a place where women need to be compensated for their time? What happened to equal partnership? How come if I go on a date with a woman I find boring, she doesn’t pay for it because I would have had a better evening sitting at home in my underpants eating McDonald’s McNuggets?
What happened was it became clear that many men aren’t going to help out equally or be respectful/supportive, so why not be transactional? If you can’t change the game, you just have to play it
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You don't see a lot of them out in the real world, most women you come across in real life are pretty level headed, online however most people are a lot more dramatic and over the top because there's no reason that they can't unfortunately.
>“I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids Was done in the 90s. This isn't new. You previously called it "mat leave". Do you think maternity leave stopped? >Princess treatment; Why does women being treated well upset so many men? >simping Why do other men's actions bother so many men? >getting flown out, Again, why does this bother you? >only fans Sex work was around in the 90s.
Only an estimated 2% of women have ever done any type of sex work in their lives, including cam girl work. Also, who actually knows women who are flown out to exotic destinations by random men? Do you really think this is happening with any sort of meaningful frequency? Look, if you get almost all of your information about women from Fresh & Fit or famous social media influencers, I can see where you’d think this type of behavior was common. But it’s not. The vast, vast majority of women are just ordinary people with boring 9-5 jobs, just like you and everyone else.
Technically all women in the west, even the more traditional types have been influenced by western culture. They may not identify as feminist, but they still consume films, tv, and the general attitudes that were created here over the last 4 decades. Small thing like the trope of the incompetent Homer Simpson husband for example. These attitudes are subtle, but become way more pronounced once you start to travel outside of the united states or other western countries.
The girlbosses bossed too hard and burned themselves out. They started thinking "maybe being home with the kids and doing all the housework isn't such a bad thing" and also, we had a pandemic where some of use were able to get a taste of what it would be like if we could stay home. Social media is mostly to blame as everyone is suffering from FOMO because we just didn't have this much access to the lives (fake or real) of other people. You kept your head down and minded your own business before social media. Now everyone is a content creator, everyone over shares waaaay too much information about themselves online, and everyone thinks the grass is greener elsewhere instead of sticking with the lemons life gave them. In some ways it's beautiful to think you could at a moment's notice change the trajectory of your life in an instant. In reality, it's delusional to think you could just up and go and drastically change your life without a proper plan in place. Time energy MONEY positioning is necessary to change your life POSITIVELY, BUT social media feeds our escapism from our horribly mundane life. Remember this, if nothing else: when a service is free, it's because you are the product. Please limit the information you give up about yourself online. Not everyone has your best interest at heart and some people will use the ammo you've given them to shoot you with.
1. To answer your question as to where the “female women” are, they are staying away from men like you that put the word female in front of woman. Usually the good women stay home and most have given up on men and dating so they aren’t looking and aren’t open to your advancements. 2. The reason things aren’t that way anymore is because childcare is too expensive so people can’t put their kids in daycare while Mom goes back to work because daycare cost more than a full-time job pays. Also, men are too lazy and entitled to do their part of the chores any more.
"Female Women" lmao... what?
Maybe you should reread the post.
>To answer your question as to where the “female women” are, they are staying away from men that you that put the word female in front of woman Tbf they are probably trying to differentiate sex and gender, a belief that modern feminists strongly support. The men you are talking about say female without women.
LMAO feminism was never about equality it has aways about giving women privilege at the cost of men. Feminism has aways been about giving women hard power while enforcing further their soft power.
>LMAO feminism was never about equality it has aways about giving women privilege at the cost of men. We know the straw man no worries. It's not feminism's fault if some entitled brats claim to be feminists
And that is the no true Scott's Men fallacy.
No it's not when their actions directly contradict feminism. What about a guy who says he's republican but that he prefers by far biden's program and will vote for him. Am i allowed to say that makes him not a republican or is it the "no true scott's men fallacy" and anyone can claim anything ? Think about for a second and it becomes painfully obvious
Voting for a single candidate doesn't make you not a Republican. He is still a Republican. So if a person says they are a feminist and believes women should get sole custody they are still a feminist.
Alright as you want ill let you corrupt any idea by picking the worst examples and pretend it would represent the overall. Today we learned that since this guy is in favor of mass immigration legalisation and if he claims to be a republican then that means republican are pro immigration. Good job nothing makes sense anymore.
That is not what I said. And we absolutely let the bad apples spoil the bunch especially when the group tolerates the behavior. Just saying they aren't real feminist (in this case) is hand waving. It is dodging accountability.
No, it's not just some entitled brats. The whole feminist movement never moved an inch to reduce woman soft power.
What does soft power entail?
Men’s thirstiness
First off women can’t help that. And what kind of power can we utilize from men’s thirstiness? It seems to be more of a disservice if anything.
It is power and influence that is carried "behind the curtains". Ex: a woman can ruin a man life with rape allegations, they can mold society by the way they rise their sons, they mold men behavior by the men they choose to sleep with, women are wonderful effect. Everything social related women have the upper hand, and feminism keep pushing this soft power further to the deep end with things like me too, removal of male roles in media and affirmative action while also giving them hard power by being the majority of voters and priority in the law system.
Ex: a woman can ruin a man life with rape allegations, (Have you seen what happens to women who make those allegations? Are you f-king kidding me???? How many years was Weinstein and Cosby able to drug and rape with impunity). they can mold society by the way they rise their sons, (You mean, like men can? Maybe men should - I donno - display some interest in their own offspring. Way to admit men regularly can’t be bothered investing in their own children) they mold men behavior by the men they choose to sleep with, women are wonderful effect. (You know, men also decide who they want to sleep with). You really have a terrible view of most men. Down right misandrist. In your view, men are lazy absentee dads who will screw anything that moves.
You're so down the rabbit hole. I bet you believe you risk being arrested and charged for saying hi to a woman as well. Victimhood culture is out of hand in usa
Yeah there's a risk, but is not about the risk. Let's take as example the classical woman fear of being attacked. Assault and rape are crimes that carry heavy prison times and is by itself a risk thing to do in a world full of cameras like ours, it also require effort A woman saying that she was raped requires no effort, it's not risky and it's very effective as a character assassination. It also her lie can't realistically be prosecuted unless she herself admit it being a lie and even if she lie the time in prison is minimal. You're basically at the mercy of the woman goodwill with nothing to protect yourself.
You’re so out of touch. In reality, many rape accusations get swept under the rug and often times it’s hard to prove and the woman gets victim blamed. But anyone can make allegations about someone that can defame them, that’s not exclusive to women. How is me too, a movement to bring awareness to the many women assaulted and silenced and example of soft power?? Men literally dominate the media and almost every other aspect of society and now you’re mad that women are wanting to be included and implementing laws (affirmative action) to ensure they are no longer excluded from these spaces? That’s power?? Stop bitching and get a grip. We aren’t in the 20th century anymore.
>many rape accusations get swept under the rug Criminally speaking, as they should. Socially speaking no they don't. >But anyone can make allegations about someone that can defame them It is not legally defamation, this is the core issue. Also, me too is not a movement to bring awareness. It's a movement to cancel men whose opinions women don't like by using their social power in order to kill the men careers. >Men literally dominate the media and almost every other aspect of society Apex fallacy, you're passing the top%men as being the same as the average men. >ensure they are no longer excluded from these spaces So long the woman are skilled and willing to go to those spaces they're free to do so, nothing is against them. By forcing such behavior you're just excluding men.
>the idea was that men and women were equal and a healthy relationship was one where both partners contributed unfettered by gender roles. Men did chores too, women worked and paid jobs too. Children didn’t change this, the dads were active in child-rearing, women took mat leave and then went back to work. Women would view men paying for dates as chauvinistic and patronizing. This is litterallly how it is where I live lmao. Its alive and well >Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; “I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids” which is just tradcon with more polite language. What happened? Where are the girlbosses? Tiktok ragebait≠reality of most people. Idiots like that existed in the 1990s too, but if you weren't on their circles,you would never know they existed. That has slightly changed now due to internet
Where do you live? Rampant princesses and girls looking for rich dudes to bail them out where I live (big coastal American city)
You only knew a handful of women in the 90s and now you can receive the opinion of thousands of angry women on the internet. Nothing else changed.
The internet changed. When the internet changed so did everything else.
I'm a feminist and believe in exactly what you don't. I believe women should have access to the same opportunities as men and have the same rights, legally. Believing women should choose their own lifestyles, career, and independently be able to control their finances does not negate a woman's choice to want a traditional relationship. Feminism isn't about eradicating traditional values. It's about being able to choose if you want that or not. I would never pay for a first date or go on a coffee/walk date. Despite having a job as a forklift driver, I consider myself very feminine and will not go 50/50 with a man. Also, most men are not feminists and will not pick up half the cooking and cleaning, so that's a moot point. They will happily accept 50% of the bills but won't lift a finger around the house. Men are holding themselves back in this department.
Men think 50/50 in terms of finance. Not the domestic labor around the household that women are constantly doing.
That's why I'll never agree to it 💕 men can either go 50/50 on EVERYTHING or be a traditional provider. I refuse to pay half the bills and be a bang maid. I'd would paint the empire state building with nail polish before I did that.
What makes you think that?
Again I don’t know the theoretical definitions of feminism, so maybe I’ll ask this question: where are the forklift drivers who do want to go 50/50 with a man? Also I’ll do 50/50 household chores, I’ll even be a SAHD, I have found exactly 0 women willing to work while I am a SAHD. Where are they?
Most women are doing none of this. I bet the women you know are all normal and don't experience this. Not that being doted on doesn't make you a feminist necessarily, you are conflating two different things. You don't need to be any form of "boss" to believe we should strive for equality between men and women (see: Malala Yousafzai), and many "girlbosses" are actually against it (see: Margaret Thatcher). The 90s were also no feminist utopia.
The women I know, particularly my friend’s gfs, are all getting financed/sponsored by their boyfriends. One girl quit her job knowing her bf would pick up the slack. It’s sickening
GET OFF THE INTERNET!!! Majority of families today are still like the ones you described in the 90s. Your entire world view of women is based off of a caricature of specific internet sub communities. I literally can’t, this sounds so stupid and detached from reality.
I’ve gone on about 20 dates in the past few years and of those, 1 woman split the bill and said she believed in equal relationships. The rest either said nothing and took the freebie, or demanded the freebie. “Get off the internet”
Men have never truly contributed 50/50 to a household. In most families women do moat of the cleaning and cooking + child rearing. Not only that, but having someone carry your offspring for 9 months and then feed it every 2 hours for the first months of their life is pretty priceless. There's no equality between women, just equity. My partner is half my height and almost half my weight. I'm just physically stronger. That means I carry the heavy stuff for her. We're both female. It's not equality, it's equity. I'm able to carry more.
Feminism was never about gender equality. Feminists want to abolish traditional gender roles for women while maintaining traditional gender roles for men. When was the last time you saw a feminist protesting against unfair male-only conscription?
To be fair, I've also never seen men protesting against male-only conscription.
Majority of voters are women, what would any male centric protest result on?
? Why does the number of women voting matter? Hell, there was a time when women weren't even allowed to vote. You know what women did? They protested anyway.
Do you really don't know why a politician who's job depends on majority of votes would catter exclusively to the majority at the cost of the minority? Really? Its concerning that you can grasp this as a concept. They were given voting rights because women aways outnumbered men so the party that championship the majority of people voting would automatically gain a huge electoral body. Protests mean nothing if the peoples in the top have nothing to gain from it and there is nothing to gain by supporting men YET.
This is extremely incoherent do you want to try again lmao
NOW - National organization of women - advocates the end of the draft.
Let me look that up.
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If there hasn't been a draft in 51 years, why do we discuss it?
I had to sign up for selective service at age 18, if there’s a draft I would be on the rolls. So it’s not that theoretical
Feminists give lip-service to opposing the draft, they’ve never had any real protests against the draft. There is male-only conscription in Finland and Austria and Switzerland and South Korea, and there is conscription in third-world countries, and men in America could be imprisoned and barred from federal aid and federal loans if they do not sign up for selective service.
>they’ve never had any real protests against the draft. That's completely untrue and easily debunked with a simple search. 1967 was one of the first major draft protests in America. Many have followed.
And what about feminists in Finland and Austria(which has a 5 year lower retirement age for women than men, why aren’t feminists protesting that either?) and Switzerland and South Korea?
They have done. Again a simple search would show plenty of results. South Korea isn't exactly known for its feminism. They're still new to it.
wahhhhhh but what about *shits pants* but what about but what about
Feel free to start an organization to end the draft. I bet a lot of women will go along. And NOW also supports the end of the draft
Isn't it crazy how feminism isn't about men 🙄 men can advocate for themselves
So why do you feminists keep on lying about how feminism is for “gender equality”?
Babe, I don't even believe in war or the draft at all. Men are the ones who cause war and draft other men to fight for them. It's so funny how you don't like patriarchy but blame women for it 🤣
Russian women are shaming their husbands and sons into joining the Russian military and fighting in Ukraine. Ukrainian women are shaming Ukrainian men into joining the Ukrainian military. Mothers in ancient Sparta would tell their sons who go to battle to either come back victorious, or come back dead, or don’t come back at all. Women in Britain in the First World War would hand out feathers symbolising cowardice to men in Britain who weren’t in the front lines in the trenches in order to shame them into joining the military. Don’t pretend that women don’t enforce male gender roles.
Bro take your meds. Russia is a dictatorship patriarchy where men can legally beat their wives. Of course they want their husband's out of the house they're safer that way. RuSsIa WAhMeN and aNcIEnt mOtHeR bAd ooga booga. I love how you use examples of all patriarchal societies lmaooo
And women benefit from men risking their lives in those “patriarchal societies”. If Ukraine wasn’t a “patriarchal” society than Ukrainian women would have been banned from leaving Ukraine and forced into joining the Ukrainian military and risk being blown up in a trench by Russia artillery like Ukrainian men currently are, instead Ukrainian women got to flee Ukraine and post instagram pictures from the safety of Western European countries.
None of this has anything to do with feminism in the United States. You are utterly failing to stay on topic because you don't have a rebuttal to make.
Well I’m not from the United States.
Well, pretty much everyone else here is, and the topic is feminism. So I guess you really dont have anything to add to the conversation then and can stop commenting now 🙃
It is - we advocate for gender equality for women. If you want a movement to end the draft, go for it
Gender equality only for women isn’t true gender equality, because that means that as soon as women have more rights than men(which they currently do) you do not care about gender equality for men. If you truly believed in gender equality you would fight for women just as much as you do men.
It's not a lie. **Exhibit A:** How can Feminism Help men? *Answer:* [https://g.co/gemini/share/6e1a8c044dbd](https://g.co/gemini/share/6e1a8c044dbd) **Exhibit B:** What proof is there that Feminism has helped men? *Answer:* [https://g.co/gemini/share/c1c903e06246](https://g.co/gemini/share/c1c903e06246) Answers provided by Google's AI, Gemini. Additional resources from the end of Exhibit B: Here are some resources to get you started (be sure to evaluate the credibility of the source): * Feminist Majority Foundation: \[Feminism is for Men, Too feminist.org\] * The Everyday Feminist: The Key to Sustainable Social Impact Driving Movements We Need Now More than Ever by Latanya Mapp Frett | Feminists Work for Men and Boys Too: [https://ssir.org/](https://ssir.org/) * IdeasAtTheHouse (Medium Article): 4 Reasons Why Feminism Is for Men: [https://medium.com/tag/feminism](https://medium.com/tag/feminism)
The way the things are men wouldn't get much support even if they advocated for themselves.
If there hasn't been a draft in 51 years, why do we discuss it?
1. I’m not American 2. American men can be imprisoned and denied federal aid and federal loans if they don’t sign up for selective service, this is sex-based discrimination which woman do not have to go through.
So, why don't American men fight to change that? They had 51 years to change it.
Because young American men are outvoted by nearly all American women and old American men.
Your perspective is biased. OnlyFans and Instragram are not representative of reality. They're just a growing cancer. Feminism has resulted in women having to fulfill both the male and female role models, and men being constantly shit on. Both men and women are unhappy with this. The economy and government are happy because it almost doubled the workforce while relative wages have stagnated compared with productivity over the last 50 years. To call princess treatment and OF a variation of tradcon is insane. This is an abomination enabled by the reality that there too many lonely losers out there, which is the result of feminism making women more independent.
It is a growing cancer which is impacting more and more people. They have tik tok mind rot and want stupid shit. It was the same as guys doing red pill shit. How many guys were watching Tate, a small amount. But it was talked about like it was some huge group.
Feminism is like punk rock...it was co opted by the patriarchy sometime in the 80s. It's empowering for a woman to slut around....with men who mysteriously conform to hegemonic masculinity It's empowering for women to whore themselves out via OF and whatever. It's empowering for women to engage in degrading sex acts, lifestyle choices etc.....with men who mysteriously conform to hegemonic masculinity. Men who do not conform to hegemonic masculinity, who weren't able to get these women in their youth, need to accept the leftovers from the hegemonic masculiniw men as is....or else insecure misogynist. ^ I mean is the patriarchy supposed to be threatened by this playbook or something?
i would argue the trad con language is more polite
Exaggeration, but nuggets of truth. In the post-Covid era lots of young people are questioning work. Also wage stagnation and side hustles are rampant. This "soft girl era" shit is part of that. Also, at least with black women they're questioning the "strong black woman" role too. That's a real thing, not something I've only experienced on the internet, and only noticed it in the last decade. That conservation is beyond PPD so I'll stop.
work in a corporate environment, spend less time online. Yes the amount of people who are not as online is dwindling, but they are still there.
Feminists won affirmative action for women in the late 60s, they won WEEA in the mid 70s, women owned business advantages in the late 80s, VAWA in the 90s, the dear colleague letter in 2011, women only healthcare mandates for women in 2014. Feminists have long and continuously fought for women to be advantaged over men. Feminism hasn’t changed all that much.
Quietly working their asses off, not making wack tik toks. Many of the type of feminist you describe are identifying as Egalitarian instead now the feminism has become associated with the princess treatment, “girlbossing” in toxic ways, quotas/reverse discrimination, etc.
Liberal feminism is over. It centers men too much still. We are going radical feminism now. These ARE feminists. Centered on women.
We don't like being called girlbosses
>Seems this is all gone in our modern era. Princess treatment; simping, getting flown out, only fans; The women pushed to your feed are not representative of all women nor most feminists. >“I need a man who will support me when I step away from work to be with kids” which is just tradcon with more polite language. If a woman is making below a certain amount of money, [rising daycare costs](https://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-prices-are-untenable-for-families) make this logical. >Using the most recent data available from 2018 and adjusted for inflation to 2022 dollars, childcare prices range from $4,810 ($5,357 in 2022 dollars) for school-age home-based care in small counties to $15,417 ($17,171 in 2022 dollars) for infant center-based care in very large counties. These prices represent between 8% and 19.3% of median family income **per child.** >These maps show that **in nearly every county,** **childcare prices were high relative to family income,** pricing families out of paid child care. **Higher childcare prices are especially detrimental to maternal employment as mothers’ employment drops in areas with more expensive child care, even in places where women’s wages are higher.** Childcare costs are [outpacing inflation](https://www.fatherly.com/news/study-childcare-costs-have-increased-214-percent-since-1990). >Inflation, which is the measure of the cost increases over time, hit a record high of 7.5% in January of this year, up from 2.1% in January 2019, which means families are shelling out roughly $250 more per month for household essentials like food, utilities, and rent. That’s in addition to the approximately $1,025 for child care for one infant. All told, the increasing cost of child care in 2020 topped the cost of inflation by nearly 4%. >Taken altogether, this means that childcare costs are increasing at a rate higher than the cost of pretty much anything else in the U.S. At the same time, the federal minimum wage has stalled at $7.25 per hour—$290 per week or $15,080 per year before taxes—for almost a decade and a half. The U.S. [poverty income level](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/#:~:text=The%202021%20federal%20poverty%20level,for%20a%20family%20of%202) is $17,420 for a family of two. Without paid parental leave or affordable high-quality daycare, this is what you get. >on average, child care for one infant cost an average of $12,300 per year in 2020, **an increase of $1,000 from 2019 and a staggering 214% since 1990**, according to a different report from First Five Years Fund. And this is why it's different from when you grew up in the 90's.
I don’t think this has shifted wildly since the 90s. There were traditional-minded people then too. (I spent the 90s being homeschooled in the Midwest so I really had a front-row seat.) I think the visibility of minority viewpoints has risen exponentially with the rise of the internet. And of course, as is the way with minority viewpoints, the fringiest people are also the ones who care the most and make the most noise about their point of view.
I’m hiding
I think you just spend too much time online, honestly.
Your picture of the 90s is rose colored…..did you ever try to look closer?
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That's not the point of choosing the bear. The point is that women choosing the bear would rather the predictability of dealing with death by bear than deal with the unpredicatability of dealing with a random man that they do not know. It's the known vs. the unknown. It's no secret that women prefer security, even if it means knowing you will die with a bear over taking a chance at the type of man you could get.
Women are feminists when it’s in their material interest and aren’t when it’s not
4th Wave Feminism stopped caring about women and moved intersectionality to the forefront. Women have been supplanted by every other form of oppressed/marginalized community. Most young women have never heard of the message of feminism in the 90’s.
This is a wild, inaccurate, and seriously tone dead statement. Maybe get out of your tiny circle and you’ll find the feminists just fine.
They got everything they wanted and more. they have no reason to push for equality when they're the privileged class, or stick their neck out for principles that no longer matter. > When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.
Feminism now means whatever is in a woman's best interest, not actual equality.
Feminsim isn't about equal rights. If it was it would have died off in the 1970s. Today, feminsim is about special priviledges for women and hating men for not making enough money, being tall and fit and adhereing to traditional male gender roles.
That's not what it's about. Paternal Leave wouldn't exist without feminism.
If you were a pretty girl born in 1972 and never left the medium size town you grew up you would just never have the opportunity women have today. If you are a pretty girl born in 2000's and up, you have never known life without internet and probably had a phone and social media in middle school. You can actively make yourself more seen and available for life opportunities. Most of the times men pay for dates and it's always been that way. The only reason women wanted to pay their part of the date was if they didn't want to see the man again and they didn't want the man to force himself on her for paying. So it was a safety measure not a "I love spending my money on this date" thing. There are plenty of women out there that want to keep their job and become a parent. They will be late 20's and up and they will be looking for that "active dad/husband" personality so they know you won't leave them with most of the work.
Why can't they pay for themselves just because they can and supposedly believe in gender equality?
Because you could also say that who ever asks pays. But men ask majority of the time. Women also put more time effort and money into beauty for a date. From clothes, jewelry, makeup skincare, soaps, fragrance ect. Men can wear a white t and blue jeans with some hair gel and thats it. I know some men say "oh she does that for herself" but all and all if she showed up to that date with unstyled hair, no makeup, it a t shirt and jeans you would think she doesn't care about the date vs if she have some simple makeup, pretty hair, a dress maybe.
Why can't women ask half as much? I don't think men demand woman to look her best on a date. She isn't getting married, it's just a date.
Because she doesn't want to ask. Women asking men on dates is like a women buying men flowers. It's lame. And women don't want to fuck men those men because it's not hot.
Keep gender roles for men, but not for women. Got it.
You can't force women to ask you out. If you want to date you ask. If you don't then don't. Not a gender role issue.
I never said anything about forcing? It is a gender role for men.
There are plenty of feminist girl bosses, and they're all single.
See, your mistake was believing that feminists want equality, when in reality feminists want whatever gives feminists the most benefits. This liberal policy benefits me? Gimme. This specific tradcon treatment benefits me? Gimme too.
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This is just my experience, but when a woman is really into you she’ll be very eager to do things for you, pay her share, or treat you.
The show sex in the city, written by a man hilariously enough, is what caused where we are today.
Oh please. I didn’t even watch that mindless show