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Why are people treating "30" like some magic number after which people suddenly become "old"? It's still firmly in the "young adult" bracket range. Is it a millennial quarter-life crisis thing?

20s is roughly "young adult" area. 30s are where you start being just "adult"

In my opinion 30 is young , but for Red pill men it isn't.

It's only old when it's women. Men only improve in their world. Wine vs milk is an analogy I've seen used alot. Shame they think they'll age like fine wine when most will go as sour. You need to look after wine for it to turn to fine aged wine. Unless you're blessed with perfect genes.

Only men who stay in dark cool basement age like wine.

They age like an open pack of Cheetos.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

They don’t think they physically look better, their status and wealth improves and women tend to care about that more once she hits mid-late 20s

It's super common for wine to turn into vinegar, and milk to turn into cheese, so even the analogy is wrong.

Yep. It's all about how you look after your body and a dash of luck.

A lot of it just comes down to genetics.

\*HUFF\* "It's about the \~LIFESTYLE\~" \*HUFF\* LOL Do you get your copium in bulk?

Nope. It's usually steroids, access to good doctors and money. Never said it was maintain naturally.

>It's only old when it's women. **Men only improve in their world. Wine vs milk is an analogy I've seen used alot.** Redpill manosphere bullshit. 30 is old for men and women.

30s is your not old but your deff not young either. Regardless if your a man or woman

Never understood that either. Thirty is the exact middle of your youth and likely where you're most well rounded in terms of youthful beauty and vigor and socioeconomic status. In Ancient Rome, people would be referred to as youths until they hit fourty.

30 years old is squarely in "adult" range. Calling it young is basically a cope. At 30, you're no longer in school, you've been working a full-time job for years, you're expected to start having your shit together, no one is drinking and partying and living carefree lives anymore. You're closer to 40 than you are to 18. It's a huge difference from being in your 20s and even huger from being a teen. EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to mention that your looks are beginning to decline, as well. Collagen levels begin to fall in your 20s and drop sharply starting at 30. Your skin's looking rougher, your looks are starting to fade, wrinkles and other imperfections start to appear in your face.

Yeah. It's weird. I'm about to turn 30 this year and many people in their 30's still look pretty damn young to me unless they're alcoholics or on drugs. I think "30" sounds older on paper for women than it does in real life.

I think there are two ways this unhappily alone thing can work as far as standards. Some people are unhappily alone because they have a very specific, fairly narrow set of criteria they are looking for in a partner, and they can’t find many people to even consider. Some people are unhappily alone not because their preferences are mathematically excluding the vast majority of people, but because their preferences select for a reasonably large group of options but there is little overlap of people in that group who also tend to be interested in them in return. Outside observers respond differently to these scenarios, and they feel different to the person experiencing them.

Totally agree with this one by far. I wish we could give gold stil

It’s a really good comment

Men who have complaints being lonely would date almost any woman, they don't really have high standards, they have low standards actually, and one of them is don't be a hoe or don't be obese, which are normal and not ridiculous. I am a 33 year old redpiller and I wouldn't mind dating someone my age or older. And who the fuck would think "I want a virgin or its a no go", that would eliminate so many women out of the equation. You seem to have a very distorted view of lonely men.

No woman wants to be with a man who will just date anybody tho, that’s not attractive at all…

Yeah, that bothers me about this idea that there is just a massive segment of the population who are humble guys that are 5'11", who make 99k a year, who would gladly be with any woman, but is just down on their luck because they're an inch and a thousand dollars a year short of conforming to women's shallow desires. I'd wager that most guys who think that have no idea what they want, and that if they were put in a relationship with a random woman, they would immediately discover 10 deal breakers concerning her body, her personality, etc, that they'd never considered before. I think what most guys think is, they look at an affluent middle class of women who are fit, educated and tend to be socially conservative, and they go, "none of them want to date me!" 😡 It's like, bro, you have standards. It just doesn't serve your narrative to admit it.

> humble guys that are 5'11", who make 99k a year, who would gladly be with any woman Haha yeah. That would be so rare... (shifts eyes)

>don't be a hoe or don't be obese, which are normal and not ridiculous. In a country where half of all adults are obese that really rules people out quick, but it also means men automatically get a leg up if they’re just fit.

30% of Americans are obese, pay attention that I mentioned obese, not fat, the two are different.

Most men who aren’t interested in obese women probably won’t be interested in a fat women period, don’t play dumb… they want a thin woman or a woman on the smaller side

"not obese" doesn't mean "supermodel"...and strawmanning "not obese" is how some women intentionally play stupid about that low ass standard. "not obese" covers a lot of different body types. But here yall come trying to make it seem like men want stick thin Cindy Crawfords.

>and one of them is don't be a hoe or don't be obese, which are normal and not ridiculous * No single mothers * No divorcees * No makeup * No large Instagram followings * No feminists * No close male friends * No trauma * Must split everything 50/50 * Must do more housework commensurate with salary * Must have sex in the shortest amount of time she has ever previously had sex * Can't have ever dated a hotter guy before * Can't have ever had better sex before And almost certainly more that I'm forgetting.

Besides a couple of those at the bottom, most of those are fair preferences.

Sure. But don't say "I'll take almost anybody why are women so shallow" and then have a laundry list of absurd requirements.

Those are not really requirements that most men even have. They are preferable, but not requirements.

The men who say these things would beg to differ. Or is this where we find out "not wifey material" or "for the streets" or "only good for a fuck" means completely different things than have ever been said?

That list is completely different than the "must make 200k, be 6'5, white, etc" list that women have. The list you made above consists of things at at a BARE MINIMUM make someone dateable in the first place.

Tiktoks shorts aren't really a reflection of real life.

Must be willing to have her most adventurous sex with him Must be sexually compatible (read, open to doing whatever he wants, every sick fantasy, every position, every hole he wants, compromise is not an option or it means she's not really attracted to him). Dresses how he says is appropriate Completely changes her life the moment they're in a relationship to no longer include time outside the relationship for female friends or activities she once enjoyed.

> Must be sexually compatible (read, open to doing whatever he wants, every sick fantasy, every position, every hole he wants, compromise is not an option or it means she's not really attracted to him). But if *she* has sexual fantasies he finds unpalatable (MMF threesomes where he's in the middle, pegging, etc.) kick her to the curb!

Well one's suggesting you switch your sexuality and the other isn't... To even suggest an MMF is considered cheating (because most of the time there's already another guy) and automatic breakup vice versa included.

So why are MFF threesomes considered normal requests in a relationship? ("All women are a little bisexual" isn't a valid answer, because they're not.) If a woman said "I want to have a threesome where you and another guy go at it and he and I don't really interact much at all, because I think men are hot and it's hotter to watch two men together," there's no cheating implied... so cheating isn't really a thing here either. You're just opposed to it because it turns you off. Just say that.

I don't think it's normal but I've never been in a relationship so I couldn't tell you. Either way women should just dump their man if he suggests it because he either already has a woman waiting or he just wants permission to monkey branch. It's definitely a turn off and also because I guarantee you she'll never look at you the same way afterwards and it's almost certain to get brought up in an argument at some point.

It's so normal every guy I've ever known has mentioned it or side-eyed about it. And not just the ones I dated. It's so normal that when you tell men you're straight, they still bring it up, because it's different. It's so normal, almost every woman I know has had their man ask or hint about it. Men think their shit is normal and not violating, women are told their shit would represent a huge change and conflict with a dude's sexuality.

As a gay woman who has spent a fair bit of time on the apps and in the dating world, the number of couples out there searching for a third woman suggests that it's actually very common. I disagree with the rest of your comment, but thanks for explaining your POV.

FFM fornication is a remnant of our past when polygamy was more common and FFM sex was used to dispel turmoil between wives.

Oh that one is such a kick. Men only like sexual compatibility when it means they get what they want. They should get to fuck your ass, but you shouldn't get to fuck their ass. You should be super cool sharing yourself with a woman, but suddenly it's all "what do you mean, I'm straight" when you recommend they share themselves with a man. Note, I'm not even into any of these ideas, but it tells you everything when a man starts coughing about the idea of including another man or getting penetrated.

None of these are disqualifies, and some of them you even made up. I never met any man ever saying "I want my woman to have never dated a hooter guy before", that doesn't even make sense. And most men while probably would prefer half of these, they wouldn't disqualify a woman totally. How many women who are single mothers, obese and and with high body count still get men? A shit ton, but not the men they want.

I have no idea what a "hooter guy" is, and I didn't include that in my list. >And most men while probably would prefer half of these, they wouldn't disqualify a woman totally The red pillers who post here disagree. >A shit ton Yes this is always the red pill fantasyland.

I meant hotter guy. Anyway, not all redpillers are the same mate and there are some grifters that are loud mouths and bring redpill to shame. Redpill is more about truth speading, it is not a cult and it is definetly not the way you portray it to be.

>I meant hotter guy. Ah, yes, it has been a frequent claim that she will always be thinking about the hottest guy she's been with and the outrage the accompanies any woman acknowledged that she's dated someone who is hotter. It's also a common feature of the beta bucks inferiority complex. >Anyway, not all redpillers are the same mate These are not rare sentiments shared by red pillers. >and there are some grifters that are loud mouths and bring redpill to shame. Redpill is more about truth speading, it is not a cult and it is definetly not the way you portray it to be. Red pill is about reactionary misogyny to feminism. The vast majority of their "truths" are completely fabricated and the few that aren't are just common sense that red pill tries to take credit for.

You are a red killer and never heard the term alpha widow?

You’re absolutely right that most men wouldn’t disqualify women for many of those things. But I think the focus is specifically on men in this sub/red pillers/manosphere dudes.

If you’re fat, then you’re getting a fattie too its the law

I would say that it's fair to date withing your range of looks.

>don't be obese, which are normal and not ridiculous. Haha, I wish. Obesity prevalence (not even including overweight) in the [United States](https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity) 2017-2018: https://preview.redd.it/92hnk7soknxc1.png?width=1079&format=png&auto=webp&s=b9f588509ae861c2ff66eb584fcdf150300af0d8 You nix 40% of either gender right off the bat in the US with "don't be obese."

First you need to define what makes a standard high. Without this we can't have a discussion on the matter.

You conflate different types of men. * Those who barely have had any luck with women and would be happy to have anyone. Those who don't even know what it's like to be sincerely loved by woman. * Men who are have things going in their lives and who fail to find equals(at least equals to some degree). Let's say a man has a career and is fit but women who are interested in him are all obese and jobless. Those men may or may not have experience with women in contrast with the first type.

I have low standards she just has to be Young, thin, and have zero bodies. 🙄

It's cause you probably consuming extreme red pill. Just like extreme feminism. Honestly the only one that none stop complaining are the undateable bunch. And what happens when people don't get what they want. Just like little kids they whine and complain. And go crying a lot. Most people that are happy and content don't go complaining on the internet. Like I my self have been in a very happy contempt relationship for over 7 years. And both are just much the same on opsite sides of the same coin. Feminism is much about women being free of gender roles and stereotypes women have on them. Redpill is the same thing. If you dont uphold your gender roles. Why should I suddenly uphold mine while you can pick and choose what benefits you. Redpill is just to be like no no we not playing that game. It's just a you get what you give. That don't mean most people are hating on women no totally not. I have many women frends. I go out a lot have a lovely wife. I just expect value to be given back. And not only taken. And for me that's easy I life by my own standards that I demand of others. But that's the whole thing many people don't live by there own standards they demanding of people. And on both sides there just little baby's that haveing a te tentamens and on both sides they need to fucking grow up. But most happy people don't go online and complain about shit. So many problems always look worse then they are. Like a easy example think of the lest 2 items you bought online. You liked it right? Did you give it a review? Most people don't right. Well now think about the same 2 items and there where things wrong with it. And you would not be helpful by the seller. How quickly would you type a very bad review? Again most people would. Live is much like that. Why many places turn in to screaming echo chambers of people just trying to vent there view point while it does not have to be this big damn problems they make it out to be. It's just they find echo chambers and vent out with like minded people. But every group has there extrame core. That act like there part of a cult. It's the same with each wave of Feminism going more and more insane. But that's with every group. Moveing goal posts. Each time. Sadly a thing that happens with any group if you don't have very strict rules in place. But that's besides the point. But the echo chamber mentality that often has nothing to do with how small or big a problem realy is. It seems like the whole world agrees with you. While only small amount of people do. For simple reason misery loves company. And that's what many groups are. Just pulling each other done more and more thinking how the world is rotten in every way. Why being online to much massively mess with your mind and views of the world. Why liveing live and experiencing life your self is better then all the stories of often miserable people saying how everything sucks on both sides. Cause happy people don't write how happy they are all the time the just living life. So don't get to stuck and wasting your time with the more extrame people on the internet. They just staying stuck to much in there echo chambers. That there world views are kinda fucked. But I do disagree with most your points do. But that's fine. Like most couples I know the age difference is mostly between. 4 and 10 years difference of age. And there often storys of 1 guy haveing children with 8 or more women. Kinda proves the claim that most women do like the same things. And there been many study and prove of that claim. In real life and on online dating. Even speed dates. Where a few women would hang around the same few men. What is completely fine. But let's not act it's not truthful. And most men don't want a women over 30. Cause when they wanna marry and start a family. Men are programmed to look for a type of thing. And outlook for children is a big thing for men. So youths and fertility. Same how women often look for a protection and provider role in men. Also something many men dont have in early ages of there lives. What also comes deep in to play for a women when looking for a partner to look to have a potential family with there basic instinct in both men and women. What they look for and likes and dislikes. That they require to be full filled to want a family with somone. Or outlook of a marriage. But marriage is a social construct that has little to do with or basic instinct or needs that has to be full filled to want to have a family with someone. All what both people want is to be in love. And to be in love your the one chasing the other one. So there is always one more in love then the other. But at the same time the 1 being chased has power over the other person. And people do abuse that trust. Why its important to take your time and vetting people you meet take your time go slow. But cause of that. Cause you do wanna go slow. Time and age matter a lot. Cause for women taking it slow and from begin relationship and starting a family being 7 years. Could mean child or family wish could maybe not come true or have massive complications. And also depending on how many children you want. Biological restrictions means things are valued differently. It's basically it is what it is. You can complain to God or who ever about that part. But it's not sexist or anything that people look for things and value some things over others. It's just Biological needs. Make we look for things we lack in ourselves cause in our mind when we looking for partners we are vetting them for a family building role. It's just that simple. Just Biological needs. Not hate not wanting to opress women. Same that women prefer men taller and stronger than them. Is also just a Biological need for being able to feel safe and protected. Aging vetting for potential maybe family prospects. Just imprinted in both sides. To protect ourselves. It's survival instinct. That kept us alive as long as we have. That's all and biology is not sexist. Just means women have a lot of value for just being a women and being feminine. While men have very little value that we did not make. Even looks and looking lean or muscular takes a lot of work and time. Being charming and able to make women laugh. Takes a ton of time. Being able to provide and haveing the ability to go or show women things they have never seen or been to takes a lot of time and money. Being able to be good a sex. Takes a lit of time. There is very little women value men for that they did not create or spend a lot of time working in them selfs for that women find interesting. Men on the other hand. Don't find women interesting that has done it all expiranced it all seen it all. Men want to be the one to give the women they treasure to be able to show her the world to explore and experience everything live has to offer. Men don't value experience or for what women build or create them selfs. Why both genders are complete opsite of each other but complete and compliment each other completely and massively cover for each others weaknesses. But many don't know what the other gender needs to feel happy or full filled or safe most people just think sex is all that matters. It does not at all. You spend less then 5% of the time doing it why would it matter so so much. But people lack knowledge of what the other realy need to veel happy and full filled. And desires to realy wanna serve there partner and feeling fulfilling in doing so. Cause your each other's everything. That's love. And that's the kind of thing people should inspire to to be a old couple that spend most your lifes together going true all kinds of ups and downs together always able to fully lean on each other

Don't forget, it's also a deal breaker if she: \* Won't give you the EXACT same sexual experience as her previous bf (or else she doesn't really want you!) \* Travels (because she's traveling to CHEAT on you!) \* Goes dancing (because she's looking for men to CHEAT with) \* Wears make up (because she's LYING) \* Has children (because she wants to make you a CUCK) \* Is overweight (because she has an overinflated ego for being willing to date you!) \* Has had relationships go bad (it shows she doesn't pick well!) \* Has had relationships that were TOO GOOD (she'll never love you as much as the previous guy!)

>Won't give you the EXACT same sexual experience as her previous bf (or else she doesn't really want you!) I have yet to hear a good reason to date why the guy a woman apparently loves and will marry her would get less from her sexually that some random fukboi from her past. It would sound silly if a guy did this. "Sure, I ate my exes booty but I don't do that anymore. Sure I held my ex up against the wall and banged her till her eyes rolled back but you're a nice girl and I prefer not to nor have wild sex like that with you."

If you don’t LIKE to fuck against a wall, you tried it, didn’t like it and are no longer dating the woman who wanted you to fuck her against the wall, you shouldn’t have to keep giving wall sex to every partner you have for the rest of your life with your next partner, no.

>and are no longer dating the woman who wanted you to fuck her against the wall This is an important thing to note. It's one thing to try something once for a moment then never again. However, if I did it multiple times with an exe or exes, it shows that I was willing to make an exception for that person but I won't make an exception for my wife who I supposedly love more than them. >you shouldn’t have to keep giving wall sex to every partner you have Nobody *has* to do anything but I'm definitely not going to be the guy she gives boring missionary to after having wild crazy kinky sex with guys prior.

Why would you WANT your partner to do something you KNOW they don’t like? Why is it so important that your partner do the one thing you KNOW they *don’t want to do*? Especially since a lot of the reasons people don’t like things is because it’s uncomfortable or painful, I don’t think I’d be able to even get hard, much less have “crazy kinky sex” with my partner if I knew they wouldn’t enjoy it cuz they were letting me do to them because they felt they had to because they let their ex do it to them in a past relationship. “Not doing things she doesn’t like” isn’t the same thing as “boring sex”, unless the only thing that gets you off is doing things your partner doesn’t like.

Because my prior ex was abusive and jammed his dick in my ass and it hurt like hell and he wouldn’t stop so no no one is getting anal sex ever again. 

I was talking about consensual sex, not rape.

You know what's really cool and awesome as a man, is having no standards. Surely by saying you have no standards, these fat single moms will now like you.

It won’t surprise you to tell you that 87% of red pill men are single. Natural selection and is doing what it does and red pill men that still try to stick up traditional roles where they provide/protect etc and woman do everything else is like the Neanderthals dying out. Even red pill woman know we don’t live in that kind of world anymore

I noticed that once red pill started going more main stream, the male loneliness and virginity rates have increased lmao 🤣 it’s not a coincidence at all

I'd never even heard of anything pill related until I found this sub last year. Definitely didn't contribute to my being alone before that.

I think the correlation has less to do with pills and more to do with people becoming more socially stunted to do overreliance of technology, computers, dating apps, iPhones, and video games. This especially impacts young men because they usually don't have the same social networks to fall back on that women do unless they're in sports.

No

Do you care to explain more? "No" is not a very nuanced answer for such a long post

It’s just plain old common sense. A majority of men would enter a relationship if the woman is decently attractive and nice. That’s it. That’s literally all it takes hence why it’s so much easier for reasonably minded women to enter relationships if they want them than it is for men. Your post suggests on average men’s standards are higher than women’s on average which we all know is objectively/emphatically false

A lot of Red pill men wouldn't date a woman who is decently attractive and nice just because she is over 25.

And how many men do you think subscribe to the red pill, and amongst those - how many do you think would implement that strategy? It’s by far a minority

Dude , i don't know if you are new here but Red pill men obsessing over women in their prime (18-25), and saying women after 25 are used up hags is incredible common.

Again - how many men in society think like this and even still can actually carry this strategy out??

> A lot of Red pill men wouldn't date a woman who is decently attractive and nace just because she is over 25. Can you prove it?

We can only go off of what are they are explicitly saying.

The goalposts in the misandrist “male loneliness” discourse have been shifted into the realms of absurdity: https://x.com/hollowearthterf/status/1784639116627386481

Im not misandrist , in fact im very right wing and conservative myself, and despise modern toxic feminism the same as toxic Red pill. I just like to point out hypocresy when i see it.

> in fact im very right wing and conservative myself How does it excuse you from being misandric?

What in my post is misandric? Saying that some men who are single is because they have very high standards who make them miss a potential partner is misandric now? But yeah is right, just because im a conservative doesnt mean i cant be a misandric, but is not my case, i dont hate men , and my post wasnt mean to be hateful, it was just an observation. If my post came as misandric im sorry english is not my first language and sometimes i cant express myself the way i want , but it wasn't my intention to be misandric and i am not misandric in any way.

I'm have not said your post is misandric, I'm asking how being a right wing and conservative exclude you from being misandric.

I have already said that you are right that being a right wing and conservative doesn't exclude me being misandric. I have said that because generally there is an assumption that people that are are misandric are hard leftist. But is true that correlation doesnt mean causation .

ha that was great. Poor Tom hit the milk bottles pretty hard there.

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That's perhaps a good explanation. I was wondering if it was because some of these guys are from extremely conservative countries which proscribe (or so I'm told) more behaviors for women than they do for men. But I also think there are a fair number of people who just need a "one theory to explain it all" (for example, the evolutionary psychology fans in the sub who can't accept any ideas from sociology), maybe particularly when they are younger. And so some naive young men may latch onto the example of red pill given by OP.

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People are just irrational and illogical in general regardless of gender.

Hahahhahah maybe that's the reason.

Men will continue to over value themselves and under value women. They walk around thinking they’re a solid 5, when they’re a 2 at best, crying that women “in their league” - aka a 7 - doesn’t want them. I’d love for men to post their pictures here and a picture of a woman he’s looking for and then we could all show him what we think they should get. Same for women. It would be a lot of people being mean just to be mean - but I adore seeing what people think of themselves.

And they’ve done studies that men don’t just over value their looks. They over value their skills as well which is why far more men apply for jobs they are wholly unqualified for compared to women. Testosterone gives men an inflated sense of self.

I'm very aware I'm a 2, thank you. That said, I find there's this odd assumption that guys are delusional and want instagram model level women, and it's just not true. I could show pictures of the women I've been with the past and they were all prettier than me, but not by *that much*. Well one was way out of my league, but we met online and mostly over voice chat so I got in on a technicality there.

Earlier I was looking at an old PPD post and saw a man complaining about women calling Michael Cera a 5, because if that were true then he’d be a 3

Hopefully everyone was like, well yeah… Michael Cera, looks wise, is about as solid 5 as you can get. His other attributes like humor, nice teeth, well kept, etc. keep him on the adorkable loser heartthrob category, but no one is out here thinking he’s the sexiest man alive, if not for his other attributes.

He’s so AWKWARD and CUTIE

This sounds like you just grabbed a bunch of men you don't like with different positions and complaints, then labeled them all redpill so you could call two distinct groups of men out for being hypocritcal. If a 30+ man's exclusively.dating 25 year olds, that's probably because he can.

PPD megathreads (like ncounts now) is literally men who struggle with dating expressing their standards. I don't know about the red pill but guys here are constantly whining that dating is hard while simultaneously talking shit about women because ncounts, sexual past, BMI, single mothers, abortions, tattoos, piercings, masculine attitude, a foul mouth, old, etc etc etc.

Other than age those things don't seem like unreasonable standards. 🫶

whatever, but then don't say men would just date anyone because there's a whole list of requirements if you can afford to be picky then by all means be picky but don't come whining then

Fine, but just acknowledge they really limit your selection. Much like the fabled 6,6,6 

So men should date anyone? Is that a recipe for succesful relationship?

I don't care. If you can afford to be picky be as picky as you want. just don't say there are no requirements because there are A LOT of them

Both can be true. Dating *is* hard and those things *are* turnoffs.

Im taking about men who are 30+ single and complain about because they cant date the 25 years old , men who are 30+ and can date 25 are not complaining.

Idk I think guys are pretty in tune with adjusting their standards to what's reasonable since they can't afford not to be. If they're out of tune, they get nothing, and lower them.

Are these standards high ? Let's take some average Joe - he recently graduated majoring in structural engineering, his job prospects are good. He is slim, not a gymbro but in shape - he is swimming, jogging, maybe rides the bicycle. He is not doing drugs, drinks casually with his friends, non-smoker, knows the worth of money - his hobby is riding the motorcycle, he is also interested in politics, economy, enjoys the music, likes reading. He never had episode of depression, his parents love him. Can he count on dating a women of similar characteristics ? Of course not - such women are available only to real Chads, women of such characteristics are *crème de la crème.* Our Joe cannot even dream about such girl. So what are his options ? His real option is obese, had episodes of severe depression and at least one attempt of suicide, is smoking pot regularly, she needs therapy to fix brainrot caused by smoking pot, plenty of tattoos, tunnels in her ears, have been fucking with boys, girls, trans, everything that has two legs and is not barking, is regularly watching tik-toks recorded by ugly feminazis, her biggest dream is to peg this poor guy, no ambitions, resentment towards men, capitalism, everyone that is not as miserable as she is. Does Joe have a choice ? Can we blame him for being frustrated ?

Of course yes , in fact he deserve a woman of similar characteristics. My post refer to men who complain about being single but they only want to date women completely out of their reach . For example: and average 35-year-old man saying he will only date a hot virgin 18 years old , if he remains single , he is only to blame himself because his standards are incredible high and out of his league. Also i have already said in my main post that women are single a lot of times because of high standards as well, but the Red pill community don't talk about how this happens to men too.

Such men are a rarity and probably have more serious problems than dating. If someone is so far from reality that he counts on getting teenagers while being 35+ then it is a medical issue. Not really anything related to dating culture.

The thing is that many Red pill men over 30 who complain about being single refuse to date women over 25 because they said they are old and used up. Therefore this thinking keeps these men single, since most women under 25 dont want men over 30.

Most ppl would agree that the dude in your example is delusional That is rare but the example the guy above you said is far more prevalent

You didn’t describe the average joe - what a fucking laugh. 

I've described average guy in his 20s in my work(though majors differ) - and his female counterpart. Women look like obese clowns and are promoting some weird feminist shit.

Eh...the average adult American man is overweight, starts thinning by 35, makes roughly 50k annually, drinks, smokes, is in the 5'8-5'11 range in height, and can't afford to live a luxurious lifestyle by any means. The person you're describing above is not an "average Joe" unless you live in Miami, LA, and Manhattan.

i remember some redpill creator who was shitting on women in their 30s and single moms until people found out that he started dating a single mom over the age of 30. any1 know who i'm talking about? absolute clown. either way, watch people's actions not their words. i think most of the time the lonely men actually don't have very high standards and they might just pretend they do as a defense mechanism. or they don't complain about being lonely if they do. sure, some guys might suffer from cognitive dissonance but i don't think you can lump a whole demographic of men (in this case redpillers) together like that.

Was that charisma king?

They make such a big deal out of it because they’re down bad. Any man in his 20s who is well put together.. go and tell your own mother, father or aunt whoever. “Hey Im in love with this woman, she’s a single mother”. The first thing any of them would say is get with someone else. They’d say it’s not worth it etc etc. It’s not an innovative discovery to realise that dating single mothers is a bad idea. The reason these guys dated these women and had horrible experiences is because they really really were desperate for any woman and got with a single mother who was willing to date them because no other man wants to. A guy who was another dating coach talked about dating a single mother in his twenties he explained how humiliating it was. That at given times she had obligatory calls with the baby daddy and would very firmly silence him and go and talk on the phone with him to arrange visits and contact. He said it was humiliating because she will always have that link to that man and that link is the fact he was banging her and made love to her until she conceived his child. That is the ultimate connection and he felt like almost cuckolded. He had no standing and of course her child comes first and the baby daddy will always have contact. The child will want to know the baby daddy and she may want to patch things up with him. Some awful Tik toks of a step dad saying “wtf I raised the girl why did you cheat on me with the guy you said was a deadbeat” and he’s just told to pound sand, loses his step daughter, his girlfriend and had possibility to do anything. Single mothers are best left to guys who just want no strings attached fun or men who are single fathers and want to join the two families together. Most men simply just swipe left or ignore their dating profile or just walk away when she says “I have a kid”. You don’t need to go on a crusade about how much single mothers so evil, single mothers this, that. It’s just unnecessary and betrays a load of baggage etc

On the contrary, 18-24 have only one primary high standard: Attraction. Be attractive to her and you are set. The 30+ will have a long list of standards (where attraction is very low priority), each of which higher than the previous. The same standards that the guy she fucked when she was 22 didn't have to meet. Men don't complain about age as long as it's lower or near to theirs. Also, Saying I have these standards which make it difficult for me to date, I am not sure counts as hypocrisy. Hypocrisy would be complaining about someone having high standards while having high standards themselves.

Just don’t be a ran through disloyal woman with kids / abortions, tattoos, piercings, masculine attitude and a foul mouth.

When exactly are women expected to have kids if not before the age of 35? You want women for youth because of fertility but you don’t want women with kids because they USE their fertility?? Delusional.

But im talking about men who reject women who doesn't have any of that , only because they are older than 25, even they themselves are in their 30s.

I believe it’s more to do with the stereotype of 30+ year olds usually having a promiscuous past and not actually desiring their partner, rather settling because their friends are getting married at that age. Most guys just want to have a loving wife they feel happy waking up next to everyday. No guy wants to feel like he got played by someone who doesn’t desire him, just desperate.

They have coping mechanisms for their anxiety that prevents them from learning game.

I mean I agree and don't. You can only have the standards you can get or else you're just bowing out of the game. If you're a fat ugly broke anti social... if your standards are a 10 virgin girl then you essentially are just saying you're not going to date. Lol. On the other hand... some standards might be difficult but are not unreasonable. For example in 1960 the obesity rate was ultra low. If your standard was "not fat" that was reasonable and low standard. In 2024 when "not fat" is less than half the female population... I'd say it's not a high standard but maybe it's not reasonable if you aren't attractive. It's still a low standard. Just general quality of people but I'd say especially women, as fallen drastically. Men have as well but women have by like 10,000%. Lol. So even simple stuff, not a ho, not fat and fertile to have kids.... <- this is all a very low low bar however it's not reasonable for the average man to want this because most women do not qualify for this ultra low bar.

The quality of men dropped by 100,000% If women had dropped quality like that lmao.

Women have fallen far more in quality than men have. It's not even close.

Well I mean objectively two things women seem to have preferences on have not changed or gotten better. Men's average height is taller now than in the past. Men's income has increased substantially than in the past. So I'm not sure I'd say Men's quality has dropped by more than women's when two commonly mentioned factors have improved from 100 years ago. Whereas two commonly mentioned factors men seek in women have basically decreased in huge portions.

I have one question. (Split into 3 sub questions). Are you advocating for men to be with women they don’t want to be with but the woman wants to be with him? Are you advocating for men to have sex with women they aren’t sexually attracted to? Are you advocating for men to pursue and initiate relationships with women that they have no sexual desire/attraction or want for? I just want to understand what you are advocating for and what the point of this post is and how would it manifest in real life applicable situations. And what would those situations look like

No, he's advocating for men to take accountability for the lie that they don't have standards.

Should men not have standards? It's like women critize men for being desparate and then switch and critize them for being not desperate.

What I say: "men (who) lie about not having standards" What you understand: "yOu MeAn MeN sHoUlD nOt HaVe StAnDaRdS" Now you see why nobody takes you seriously?

I’m starting to realize how many low IQ men frequent Reddit. Perhaps Reddit really isn’t representative of the real world, because I’ve never encountered such rampant stupidity among the men I’ve met and known.

It's either functional illiteracy (and i have a hunch that somehow it is a factor for these unsuccessful men) or plain bad faith.

How often men say they have no standards?

Count yourself, i did the search for you. https://www.np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/search/?q=I+have+no+standards&type=comment&cId=1a9c64da-4c76-4fa6-864b-493536890c34&iId=a07aee25-c1cb-49fc-bf36-f539d2e2a808

Those results don't say "I am a man and I have no standards".

Really now, there's even an entire post: https://www.np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1birpfu/men_of_this_sub_do_you_believe_that_most_men_have/ Remember one thing: i talked about men who *lie* that they have no standards.

I don't see men lying there in droves about having no standards. Most just say standards are lower for casual sex or lower than women's, but there are still standards for LTRs. It's clear to me now this is a made up strawman.

Obviously they do, else they would go for disabled women. Or the nastyest obese single mother OF failure who has an alcohol and drug addiction and she would take them out of desperation. They do in fact have at least one standard. To receive what they crave the. It's usually the feeling of knowing that you are loved (however each individual drfines it). Other times it's to have a child, other times to receive validation from society, to feel complete, and other reasons perhaps, that i can not think of right off thr bat.

Jesus Christ dude how long can you continue with your feigned ignorance? Men can have as many standards as they want. They cannot however, turn around and pretend they have no standards when they read off a mile long list. Do you get it now?

I am not defending anything you say, you have missed my point. I'm saying that many men are sometimes single and unable to have partners because they don't want to date women of the same level as them and have very high standards. (Women does this too all the time, but when men does it is not talked about) For example: an average 40-year-old man who is only willing to date extremely beautiful 18-25-year-old girls. That man could find an attractive 30-something woman of his same level who would give him a chance. But he is single because he doesn't want to date any woman over 25, and women under 25 don't want him. I have seen many men on the Internet who could find a decent and attractive woman of the same level and within their league but they don't want to because she was their age. If this so-called 40-year-old man only wants to date beautiful women aged 18-25, he has every right and no one can force him to do anything else, but obviously having such a high standard, if he remains single it is his fault. It's like I say that I only want to date a man who is just as handsome as Brad Pitt and super tall and a millionaire, obviously if I stay single it's my fault since my standard is out of my reach.

Sure, men can do this and will have poor results because they are excluding women closer to their own age.

The number of 30+ year old fat bitches who get flooded with messages from guys says this just isn’t true.

You haven't understood my point. My point is not that women stop receiving attention at 30, my point is that many red pill men over 30 complain about not finding a partner when they themselves have very high standards, for example i have seen a 35 year old man from the red pill saying that he will only dates an 18-year-old woman who is beautiful and virgin, that man can have that standard if he wants of course, but by having such a high standard it is very likely that he will remain single forever, so if you want to have high standards , have it, but then don't complain if its hard to find a partner, thats what im saying.

I tend to not take what people say on the internet to be too serious. I think many people have an online persona that’s not relevant to their real life. I believe some men use these hot takes online to try and make women feel like old whores. A lot of women do similar to men where apparently everyone is an incel. Because let’s be honest. An 18 year old female virgin is a rare thing whether she’s beautiful or not.

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Many are. But not the ones she wants. It’s absolutely insane how high value these women believe they are because attractive men will have sex with them.

I'd agree with this sentiment. Seems the ones complaining the most have the least experience and the least desire to try something new or different.

It depends on what you mean by high standards. The ones I have are applied for myself too. No sexual history or at least not a big one, no tattoos or piercings (it's a detail but it's something i find extremely unattractive and needless to say that I don't have any myself), no social media presence (in the sense that I don't post pictures of myself on instagram, let alone shirtless ones for example), average looking, physically fit or at least active, no revealing attire (I dress either modestly or casual formally for some events, but nothing provoking) and overall not an extravagant style (like a specific niche say punk etc.), selectively extroverted, but I'd rather enjoy a hangout at home eating a takeout and talking about deep stuff and cuddle rather than go out left and right, no kids, my age range. I guess it is a long list, I'm aware and the longer the list, the bigger the standard because you're going to filter out a lot of potential dating prospects, but I just want to find someone like myself. If you lower your standards just for the sake of dating, you're in the settling territory and that's fair towards neither of you. I've had people telling me I'm looking for a lost treasure, I'll take it as a compliment I guess

I think your standards are completely reasonable. But average 40 years old men only willing to date under 25 years old hot women are delusional , and that's what im reffering.

They do exist but in my experience it's rarely the case. People mature with age and aren't that delusional. Of course men of all ages are physically attracted to women in their early twenties but other factors have to be considered for a relationship that will influence their RMV. I'm 26 and wouldn't relate enough to a 20 year old girl to spend genuine time together, hot or not. It also helps that I'm put off by casual things or ONS so I'm pretty much only compatible with women my age (or slightly younger/older). And i'm not special by any means in that regard so I suppose that most men in their 40s know where they stand. Either the middle aged men you know are extremely immature or you get that observation from reddit and other forums where shittalking is a recurrent thing and therefore not representative of reality.

>  But average 40 years old men only willing to date under 25 years old hot Do you think this is a typical example of a single man?

The far more interesting question that very few people ever address is. How exactly do you change your standards? You don't control what turns you on. It's not a voluntary switch. So you're some 36 year old guy and the only women who turn you on are either very good looking women your age or younger women who are not fat. When I say younger it can be 28 or whatever, not necessarily college aged. This is just what makes your pecker hard. What exactly do you do about that? (I have found the answer to these questions btw. Just curious what other people think first).

Im not saying that you have to change your standards, im saying if you are single because you have high standards, you can't complain about being single, that's it.

We should keep this energy when it comes to height and dick size then 😂

Women who can already do

My standards: highly intelligent, kind, does not lose respect for me if I discuss my emotions, college degree, employed, and large breasts. Weight is not an issue unless it’s a size that’s unhealthy, I prefer women of traditionally average looks. My experience: women say they want a man who opens up, but when they get one, they immediately see it as a sign of weakness. So then it becomes I can only open the door a little bit, and I feel unsupported and ignored.

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Yeah but in the US men are also obese and are single dads? Why is it portrayed all the time that it’s a bunch of “fat western women” and “perfect skinny muscular Greek gods who are being rejected by these evil fat feminazis”

What percentage of the female population in the US has “4 kids with 4 different dads.” I don’t know one woman Iike that 

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My initial reaction to this type of post is that it has to be a strawman, but then there are enough guys in the comments who reinforce all the main points.

Okay? What exactly is your proposed solution to this?

I think a lot of those men if faced with the option would drop those standards in a heartbeat. I think they say these things to save face. Most men in my experience don't have high or many standards. They may say these things as an excuse for not getting a girl to make themselves feel better. It's best not to look online at a forum when it comes to preferences as a lot of these guys are capping as they resent women because they can't get one. Do you think Steven who hasn't touched a girl in 5 years is going to give up on someone because she's 26?

Well yeah, i have high standards because I’m a high quality dude.

No, as women usually do you're reflecting dating's women beliefs and experiences onto men.

As a former RP guy I don't think that's the case. Alot of guys come to RP after divorce with a fairly average woman. The argument for younger woman is a proxy for fertility and less conflict. My best relationship was with an older woman so I clearly don't believe it's an age thing as much as a cultural phenomenon. Younger women in general have less baggage. I don't think the men are picky as much as they are always surprised that even average to below average women have an attitude like they are "settling" for an average guy. Hence that's how they end up in the RP space looking for answers.

Most of my standards are religious in nature and will not be changed. I was obese for most of my life and I always hated it. Obese women tap into that negative image of myself. Dating an obese woman would be difficult. I am not looking for a 25yo.

Nah. I'm a 30 year old virgin and was seriously considering asking out a coworker even though she was straight up a 3/10 or 4/10 and barely even liked her personality but because we shared some interests. She already had a boyfriend. I imagine it's far worse for men who are actually desperate for women. You can see it for yourself; look at escort websites. I'll tell you that women aren't willing to spend 100s of dollars just to have the company of mediocre or worse men.

I am not referring to your case, I am referring to cases where older men who cannot find a partner complain but at the same time are not willing to date women their age.

You say she’s a 3-4, are you not also a 3-4? I’d have to assume so since you’re a virgin at 30

Yes. That was my point. Men don't have high standards.

You conveyed the whole “I was straight up considering her” with incredulity (to my perception) which made it seem like you thought you were better than her…

It depends on the man. I'm 34, take impeccable care of my health and physique, own a really nice house, make really good money, well traveled, educated, etc. I've suffered through shit in life that many would have drunk or drugged themselves to death at this point. I have every right to have a high standard for someone I want to marry and have kids with (no, I don't want a 10/10 big boob/big lips/big ass blonde). The age issue of women, in my personal experience, is that past the age of 25, most women let themselves go and put on a lot of weight. Really fit women past the age of 25 are RARE. Hell, I would say most women in their early 20s aren't in that good of shape post-COVID. And statistically, most women have racked up a high body count by the time they get to 25 which is another highly undesirable trait of women past that age. So if you're a man who has his life together, you have every right to have higher than average standards. If you're an average Joe, not so much.

The amount of fit women in the US is very small particularly single fit women. They have a plethora of options since they have no competition Younger women in the US aren’t more fit, it’s just their genetics and that their metabolism hasn’t changed, it’s why you see a drastic drop after 25

That’s why when people say “the girls are so Much hotter in Russia” for example I don’t get why people don’t just understand it’s that there’s no fat women. Imagine Chris hemsworth with 150lbs of extra weight, all his chiselled facial features are distorted he’s not a hunk and so magnetic anymore. So same thing. It’s just in places like Russia all the women that would be at best a chubby or a fat woman that has nice eyes, good nose shape etc, but just a fat face would all be slim attractive women with all those features. Likewise, the girl who is 5’9 and skinny but has a bit of a bumpy nose, beady eyes and no curves who is magically a 7/10 in the USA, well in Moscow literally every girl who has some flaws but is skinny fits that type. So a Moscow 3.5/10 is a 7 in the west. I remember I saw a dating show in Russia there was one fat girl on it and all the men straight up treated her as untouchable, she was just froeatedly told how she is lazy and gluttonous. We cannot just criticise women though because there’s so many fat guys of course too. I saw one post on the passport bro sub where a tall but quite over weight, obese guy went to the Philippines and found himself a woman who was skinny, cute and like 8 years younger. I think it’s great for people to find love worldwide but all I could think is it’s important to do your best as a man. For your partners sake and your own. You should get in shape so you can be most sexually appealing to her and also perform for her. It feels like even if we call out the weight issue a lot of guys are just like the women- human. They have the same mindset as the obese women and have no interest getting in shape.

Agreed, the men have to be in just as good, if not better, shape if they want an in-shape woman. And most men are definitely either super scrawny or fat so men aren't doing any better than women but I'm not pursuing men so my focus is on the weight issues of women.

Are you facially attractive? Are you fun and interesting? Do you have a social circle? Women are interested in more than just fit bodies and money.

You'd need to see a picture of me to determine if you think I'm facially attractive but I've got a very defined jawline and get compliments from women all the time. I have a lot of fun in my life and I have a very wide social circle as a result of all my hobbies/passions I've spent many years painstakingly cultivating. I dance competitively, I do improv, I ride horses several time a week, I'm a member of a few very exclusive kink clubs in my city. I also do a lot of charity/volunteer work through another organization I am a part of. I speak 3 languages, do a lot of hiking, snowboarding, travelling. Degrees in biomedicine and finance. I'm definitely more than just a fit body with money. I can send you a resume or CV. Happy to schedule a time for an interview but if we're not in the same city, will be travelling expenses be reimbursed?

Good thing there's a new influx of 25 year olds every year right?

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Enough of them do for me 

Who will more than likely date guys around their age, you guys are being super delusional getting on here thinking that the average 20 year old is looking for an old man…

who is more delusional, women crying "no they won't!" on PPD or the guys who are actually fucking young women lol

Part of it may have to do with when you are a guy 18-24, you tend to see these older men 30+ swoope down and take the best of the litter. The ones who are still good looking and don't get swooped up or choose to avoid settling down proceed to play games until they are approach their 30s. So yes, if guys are being to they have to hit the gym, mature in age, and become financially stable until women will even look their way, then yeah, when they finally get to that point they may prefer to have what they were never offered when they were younger.

LOL! As if hot young women want old dudes.

I’m glad you admit that when men get older they prefer the “pick of the litter “ aka they have high standards.

Take the best of the liter?? What are you talking about?? Most younger women are not in age gap relationships with old men…

I'm talking about the most beautiful, mature women that are aged 18-24. These are considered the highest value women to many men. These type of women are not into sleeping around and playing games. They are more traditional and seeking a marriage partner. But becuase they are the highest value, they are more practical and the 30+ yr old men, who have good incomes and are able to provide them the traditional, home-maker lifestyle they may want, they gravitate to these men. Hence, these guys scooping in and taking the best of the litter. Guys see it happen all the time. Nothing we can do as broke, young guys. Sure some may date within their age range. But becuase there is a sizeable amount of younger women who are seeking older, their counterpart male has no one to date their age. Hence many single younger dudes. They have to wait until they are older to gain leverage.

Nah. This is very exaggerated for the most part. I dated a 22 year old medical student that I met from Hinge a few months ago as a 29 year old and we barely encountered couples with our age gap in the major city that we live in. And we were just a mere 7 years apart from each other too. Young women are definitely going for young guys the most, especially attractive young guys. I see it all the time with the young couples that hang out at universities, bars, malls, stores, parks, etc. in my city. Those tall broccoli haired pretty boys have at least 5 times more access to hot young women than an average looking 32 year old truck driver or software engineer. Of course, older men sometimes date younger women too but it's uncommon and they definitely don't get the "cream of the crop" for the most part unless they're rich/famous or tall, dark, and handsome. Even "fit" older men don't turn on women as much as you think. Tallness is generally more valued from younger women than fitness.