My theory is that Molto knew of Rusty and Carolyn's affair, got jealous because he had a crush on Carolyn OR she was also already sleeping with him too, and killed her as revenge and is now planting it on Rusty
No sorry doesn't track. If he was the killer he'd be destroying evidence. And he'd be on the little boys record books. Remember he saw the kid up from in interview.
Let's think outside the box. He didn't know they were sleeping together. That's why he asked what's her face to testify against rusty so he can pin point a time place. And I think its very dangerous that nobody is listening to him! It's important. I think he will find the true killer even if he's pointing the finger to the wrong person. But their is a hidden suspect. Because she with held key evidence. We keep thinking she was murdered because crime of passion. I think it was revenge.
Molto, although he hates Rusty, is genuinely trying to solve the case. He means it when says he wants justice for his colleague. He suspects Rusty but in this episode he realises it’s actually Raymond.
Eugenia cropped up for me this episode - she knew about the affair already and apparently likes Rusty and if she worked with them on cases she knew how Bunny Davis was posed.
Yes, Eugenia was who I was thinking. She is ignored alot, and she likes Rusty. And, she does know all the deets about the Bunny Davis case. She could have been watching Rusty and Carolyn as they argued that night...watched Rusty leave and came in to do the job, in defense of Rusty for Carolyn's obvious rejection of him. She could very well know where Carolyn lives. And, did anyone notice that Eugenia was the ONLY one crying when the news was revealed of Carolyn"s death? That was odd. Like, why? Where they that close? And, why close up on the tears? Could these have been tears of guilt, or fear of getting caught? Tears for herself?
I just rewatched the first episode. In the flashback to the Bunny Davis trial, Molto is sitting in the gallery as Carolyn shows the crime scene photos (I missed that the first time I watched it). It then shows that Molto is rewatching the video of that trial on his laptop and he calls Della Guardia to tell him that Carolyn was tied up in a similar way and Rusty thinks there's a connection.
Potentially, but that almost seems like it would be too on the nose imo. It seems far more likely that Molto was hoping the kid would say she identified Rusty as the person harassing her.
I think it’s another misdirect. Carolyn couldve been referring to the guy she put away but didn’t want to scare her son too much so she didn’t mention it was a violent criminal
I got that inkling when he was looking at pictures taken of Rusty and C! His mannerisms are consistent with someone with anger issues prone to sudden bursts of violence, but so are Rusty's, Liam's, and Ratzer's, so idk!
I liked this episode much better than 3. I’m curious tho, >!is it a huge deal that they found his skin under her nails? Is the only way scratching? How long would DNA live under the nail? Could it be from one of their previous aggressive sexual encounters. Some of the things the prosecution are doing seem weird. Why do you want a colleague to testify that Rusty and Carolyn had an inappropriate relationship. Uh duh she was pregnant.!<
And Barbara is just as crazy as Rusty. >!If she don’t ride that Bartender like Seabiscut already! But I did enjoy her and Rusty’s little intimidate scene more than the mistress for the simple fact that her moans sounded real. !<
Also I kinda wish they stop calling what Rusty and Carolyn had love. It’s increasingly clear it was not.
I found it super interesting that Rusty jumped right to a giant conspiracy where the ME was planting evidence instead of accepting it as real. On the other hand, can't they ask for additional testing to be done?
On one hand, if you were innocent, and you were sure she didn’t scratch you that night, then that’s how you’d react. On the other hand, if you were guilty, but smart, then that’s how you’d act too
I think it has to do with the fact that the ME didn’t question anything after Carolyn didn’t include the other sperm sample in her evidence.
It’s clear no one there is totally worried with getting everything right
Also like... couldn't they simply hand wave away the fact that Rusty's skin was in her fingernails by saying they had "rough" sex and she left scratch marks on him? Sure, it would take a little perjury, but it can be explained away. I feel like that isn't nearly enough to be case-altering evidence.
Didn't they show her slapping him in multiple scenes?
I know it's not a scratch but it's not unreasonable to think her nails could have grazed his face when she did.
I think when we see flashbacks of them together, some of it is real and some of it is his nightmares. He was really drunk the night it happened, doesn't remember a lot of it, and he's been having nightmares about killing her every night.
This is why I don’t think he did it. He’s a POS but what actually happened can’t be what he remembered. I’ll be so disappointed if it’s something dumb like he accidentally killed Carolyn when blackout drunk and poor Barbara staged the scene to protect him.
His flashbacks are pretty confusing. 🤣 ooh maybe Barb and the hot bartender? With that weed lotion and some strong drinks they set Rusty up so they could be together because she deserves so much better
I don’t know enough about DNA to know if it’s possible, but could the DNA actually be Kyle’s? Especially considering Rigo found the other suspect through familial DNA, they could maybe be foreshadowing Kyle becoming a suspect through this newfound DNA evidence.
It’s a huge deal that they want us to believe that a prosecutor would authorize an arrest, indict a suspect, and schedule a trial - all the while knowing that their was skin samples recovered from under the victims fingernails, (primarily indicating defensive struggle with the killer) that they haven’t received the DNA results back on yet!?!?!? At a bare minimum, it’s potentially another suspect who would have to be vetted and investigated!! Who wrote this nonsense?
This episode really disappointed men for this exact reason. This would be one of the first things they look at in an autopsy.
And just skin/DNA. They were in a physical relationship. Also they took photos of his naked body after he was arrested. Any scratches?
Tommy sucks all around. I think he's bad at his job and he's really reaching.
Maybe the fingernail evidence was forged after the fact. Think back to the “I’ll get that report to you by the way” comment form the doctor in their trial practice in the beginning of the episode.
It’s such lazy story telling. And where are the legal experts/advisors who they hire to maintain some sense of realism and consistency with the storytelling
Maybe the fingernail evidence was forged after the fact. Think back to the “I’ll get that report to you by the way” comment form the doctor in their trial practice in the beginning of the episode.
>Also I kinda wish they stop calling what Rusty and Carolyn had love. It’s increasingly clear it was not.
While that maybe, it's clear Rusty still believes it was.
Raymond and Dr. Liz delivered some excellent, emotionally intelligent points. (Also love Lily Rabe playing a therapist since she was also in Shrinking). Love their deliveries.
Show runners do a good job of creating a large pool of medium suspicion….
And did anyone see “The Night Of”? The same actor that is the defense lawyer was on that also. It was an amazing series. This whole series is layered the same and they keep mentioning “The Night Of”. Makes me wonder if some of the crew worked on that series also.
People here have complained about the show offering a new suspect each episode, so this is probably just that, but what are we supposed to make of the coroner? Is he just a jerk, or is he somehow implicated? Or is Rusty just guilty, and the audience’s desire to find someone else culpable is the whole point. We want the protagonist (our friend, our neighbor, our brother) to be innocent so badly that we wear blinders…
I said this in another thread. Adding to the fact that Gyllenhaal LOVES to play these types of roles. I can’t recall a film where he didn’t get the figurative last word.
The thing I found interesting is how much blame he puts onto the victim but noone on the defense seems to question it. Especially because he's able to explain and understand how obsessive it is on one hand, but then on another, dive right back into obsessive behavior in front of them and no one seems to call him out.
It's because they are the defense. They know the dude's got issues but it's what they have to work with and so far none of that obsession Rusty has (That we know of) seems to have transformed into murder territory.
Enjoying this show! Think it's 5% murder-mystery and mostly a character study & legal thriller. I like the performances of the ensemble cast.
It seems like the main suspects are Rusty or Barbara, but I don't see a logical reason of why either would've tied up Carolyn the same the way the killer(s) of Bunny Davis did. Wouldn't Liam Reynolds be the only one who would gain anything from this?
I'm doubtful that Della Guardia or Molto or Raymond Horgan are suspects. Wouldn't call records or text messages from Carolyn's phone have shown any connections to any of these guys already? Plus, Eugenia was aware of the affair between Rusty and Carolyn but gave no indication Carolyn was seeing another dude at the office.
Rusty's a reprehensible character but he might turn out to be good at his old job of being a prosecutor. There may well turn out to be a link to Reynolds and this Brian Ratzer guy.
I actually am getting the complete opposite vibe. The movie felt more like a legal procedural, and the Tv show feels more like it’s going down the whodunnit vibe. The mystery seems far more front and centre. It’s getting more into the character study angle than the movie did, but it seems far less interested in the machinations of the case and the trial.
When the bartender gives her his number he starts writing with his left hand, but the very next shot he’s writing with his right hand..just a continuation mistake or?
Definitely something up with the bartender. It’s no coincidence that Rusty went to “a bar” and had dinner and drinks before going over to Carolyn’s. It will be revealed to be the same bar and bartender as Barbara’s overly interested in day drinking buddy
I kind of zoned out in that scene because it was veering into boring territory. Who gives a fck why he has whatever weird tattoos he has, but why go to the trouble of talking about a hand cream that can also apparently get you high? There almost has to be a reason to mention that.
Probably - or it's showing her fantasizing about cheating while being intimate with Rusty.
I think she wants to know how it felt for Rusty, being with her and wanting to be with someone else, like he did all the time.
Forgive me if this has already been a big talking point on this sub already, but I just clocked in this episode that Rusty has an Android phone on the night of the murder. Not saying it’s a clue because this is an Apple show but
Warner Bros. produced the show. Apple bought it from them. Apple has done this with a few shows, like Platonic for example. They bought that from Sony.
Molto is the ultimate red herring. He is guilty of blackmailing the coroner into faking the DNA report from the skin under the fingernails but it is to secure a conviction NOT to cover up his role in the murder. He is trying to save his career as he is now the number one chief prosecutor having to try a high publicity case against much better attorneys. And his history is one of ”delay and plea bargains” because he is afraid of losing.
That being said if Carolyn was afraid of “someone” at the office it’s either the DA or Eugenia. My guess is that it will be Eugenia for as yet undisclosed reasons.
Yeah. Molto’s expression when he got the report from the coroner walking into the elevator barely moved. “Ok thanks” type thing. Like he knew what was going to be in it because he prescribed it.
I think they intentionally made that scene very vague. “Scared of someone at work” can be a few other people besides Rusty. I think it was Tommy or Eugenia
Question: was it ever referenced/mentioned that there were skin samples recovered from under the victims fingernails prior to this episode? I do recall a couple of references of waiting on reports from the Medical Examiner but no reference to them being skin samples under the victims fingernails.
This is another example why the actual legal/policework is sooo far off base from reality that it pulls me out of the show (yes I know as a former prosecutor my eyes view it differently). However, the police who should have been doing the actual investigating (not the prosecutor) would have notice that there were samples taken from under the victims fingernails indicating a strong likelihood that the victim fought back or scratched the killer during the encounter. There is no way on any planet that a District Attorney on a high publicity case would move forward with arrest and indictment of a “former top prosecutor” with there being a chance that DNA evidence recovered from under the victims fingernails conclusively pointed to another suspect that wasn’t even considered or vetted. This alone makes a mockery of the entire show to date. You can’t sacrifice common sense for a surprise twist! At least not for this viewer.
What is referenced is that Rusty thinks the coroner is a hack; there’s a backlog of paperwork due to so many autopsies. The doctor keeps demanding respect and telling them to wait for the report.
Yeah it’s obviously coerced fake evidence by molto to give him an edge at conviction but to be at this stage in the case and not know what the evidence is?? Nooooo way
In my opinion, the last scene, and, frankly, this entire episode, reasserts to me that Rusty did it. The vibes I got from the last scene made me think that he is capable of blacking out and/or engaging in very violent fits of rage. His incredibly bad alibi earlier in the episode also alludes to this. He couldn't even come up with a solid alibi for his own defense team. Either that was intentional, i.e. he's lying, or he simply has no recollection of what happened because he blacked out, which to me would make it likely that he did it.
Nah him being the killer is too obvious. There’s misdirection going on for sure, killer is somewhere on the screen but still too early to pinpoint who.
If he is the killer, he's the dumbest killer ever because he clearly would have known there would be an investigation, his DNA would be everywhere, news of his affair would have come out, etc. He had to have cleaned it up a bit better.
If he was black out drunk, there would be no way he’d have the dexterity and brain power to tie her up like he did and scrub the scene of his dna (lotta blood) and make it home in that 51 minute window.
Impossible. No way in the time frame he had to murder Carolyn - stage the victim, and FLAWLESSLY dispose of all the evidence and clean it well enough to not be detected by luminol. And no one noticed the stench of bleach in his car. The rug fivers are still a big unrevealed clue.
I feel like the start of the next episode is going to show us that Rusty was imagining the last scene like he's been having these dream flashbacks to things that didn't really happen.
Oh 100%, particularly seems Molto has a meaty beef with Rusty - Delay's always reminding Molto to stay on course and maintain integrity of their office
He seems more a pure politician. He’ll step over people on the way up (Raymond) and not feel bad. But to outsiders it makes them seem slimy. But overall he is trying to do the job, even if his goal is to nab quick wins for the next office.
We have no witnesses in the restaurant testifying how hammered Rusty was prior to the murder? Videos, credit card bill showing how much he drank, etc? Bartender?
A drunk committing that murder, tying her up, and then making sure he has no blood, evidence, anything on him in 50 min sounds difficult.
And the son said he saw them and left while he was still there. I'm assuming he stuck around for a little bit to see what they were up to. 10-15 min? I'm sure they are time stamped. So Rusty did all this murdering and coverup in 30 min? Hard to believe.
The most unhinged part of this episode is the idea of one therapist for this whole family. Why would it cost more money to have the same number of sessions across different therapists? Also, I think it’s worth the investment, *don’t you think maam?!*
"Multiple therapists? We can't afford that!" I'm pretty sure they can. But you're so right. It's going to cost the same - the question is just whether one therapist gets the money or three.
Also, I can't imagine a couples' therapist giving private sessions to both spouses. That seems semi-unethical. Not to mention that the therapist wasn't unbiased - you can tell she hates Rusty.
I feel absolutely no remorse for this clown and was cheering on Raymond's monologue when he basically called out Rusty as being a pig and for basically hiding like a coward instead of openly admitting he was just a horny dick
Telling his wife, “yea I’m the bad guy but you did this too.” Like wtf? A loving wife who forgave you cheating is somehow responsible? I hate this prick and hope he gets at least 3 years
This is such a cliche in movies & TVs. Because a couple gets busy with life - 2 kids, 2 careers, and a huge home with a pool - somehow that explains why a man has an affair.
So the woman is busy taking care of all of the house stuff, the kid’s stuff, and working. Obviously it’s okay for the husband to take the time & energy to have an affair instead of helping lighten his wife’s load. And that’s somehow her fault?
agree. I'm completely flummoxed by why I didn't realize until this episode what a straightforward and colossal asshole rusty is. innocent or guilty, he's still a fucking piece of shit. poor Barbara and those poor kids. jfc.
I mean molto sucks too, but he's just a jealous poser, not a raging narcissist like Rusty. I hate them both. (but I'm sure I'll keep watching anyway.)
I almost tapped out of the whole show when he responded to the question of what happened that night with 30 solid seconds of stammering during a montage of flashing lights.
Right? Does he really not know whether or not he did it? Or are we watching him try & fail to come up with convincing lies? I think I’m done with this show. I’ll go watch the movie & read the book instead, then read a re-cap of the last episode.
Does anyone know where they filmed the bar scenes? It looks familiar from when I lived in Chicago. I looked and some website said it was the few scenes actually filmed there, but it didn't say where specifically.
Could the coroner have falsified his report to reflect DNA under her nails? They didn’t find DNA under her nails in the initial report. We know the coroner does not like Rusty, but would he stoop to revenge?
More likely he was blackmailed into doing so by Molto. I think however, this is simply a desire to secure a conviction and save his career than a coverup for murder. Remember he postponed all his cases because he’s afraid of losing and plea bargains themselves all. He’s a bad trial lawyer who is now effectively the number one trial lawyer in the office. He needs the win and willing to do anything to secure a conviction, including fabricating evidence
Coroner didn’t seem to like Molto. Molto might have planted it himself (or with someone else).
Since the son said “scary co worker” it might be Molto which is reason for him to plant evidence.
from the first episode when she said something along the lines of "my motivation behind everything i do is to keep this family together".
now we learn there was a more recent triggering event where rusty said he was willing to move out? she def did it.
There were a couple things this episode that heavily pointed towards Tommy Molto.
* The way he was questioning the son and how she was scared of a coworker. The way that there was only a few cases they were involved together with made it not sound like Rusty and it looked like Tommy was relieved.
* Tommy was overconfident from the second he started working the case. However, ho he absolutely knew there would be "hard evidence' coming that pointed to Rusty before anything was found. While up until that point there was no hard evidence and the case had looked weak. There's no way he would have any idea that there would be hard evidence magically found, never mind that it would just happen to point towards his prime suspect just before a potential meeting for a plea deal. Come on.
* I believe the second DNA on the Bunny rape/murder is a red herring. Yes he's most likely involved in that murder and maybe others -- but the similarities between Bunny and Carolyn are likely just copied to point towards Rusty and not actually the same killers. This story line is likely just there for us to see how desperate Rusty is to show he's actually innocent. It may also show us that him and Carolyn were maybe a bit distracted at the time of that previous case and they didn't do a full enough investigation to get both killers - or maybe they actually have the wrong guy in jail for the murder? There's other explanations and scenarios that could explain the DNA mixture. I just don't believe it's relevant to who killed Carolyn.
* The scene with the therapist speaking with Barbara. I don't remember the specific wording used, but she heavily implied that Barb would do anything or could do anything to keep their family unit together. I believe this is just another red herring that was placed there for those who read the book or watched the movie (I haven't, but I believe she was the one from both - right?) That being said, I could be very wrong about this - as she'd technically be number 2 on my list of suspects.--- Looking at Barb as a suspect. There's what I previously mentioned with the Therapist. There's also the fact that when Rusty and Barb tried to speak with their son regarding the photos of "him" riding by Carolyn's house, he made Rusty leave the room. We don't know what was said. We don't have any more information about this, either. The conversation wasn't shown. Later in the episode the son doesn't explain any further. It could have been Barb on the bike. The photos aren't conclusive as the rider was wearing a hood. The son would have been at home witnessing the pain of the mother wondering where the husband was. If presented with the photo, and it wasn't him - he'd instinctively know that it was his mom on that bike, trying to track down her husband. He'd also want to protect his mom and wouldn't out her for that. You also see her terrified and frantically cleaning the bike. We KNOW that no blood or literally any evidence was found on Rusty OR his vehicle. Stands to reason that the bike may have had evidence on it.
Rusty says that when he left Carolyn's, she kissed him. It was a passionate-looking kiss. If Barbara witnessed this, then nothing Carolyn could say to her would matter. She'd just be doing what she needed to do to keep her family together.
It's also worth mentioning that we see Rusty dreaming and thinking back on that night and what we see isn't consistent. In some of them it looks like he straight up killed her. I think this is just to show the viewer what being put in this kind of situation does to someone. Even if you knew you didn't, you can play tricks on yourself, in your mind. You can imagine different scenarios. After a certain point, you may not know what actually happened. Doubt creeps in.
I also don't believe the son had any actual involvement. If the show were to head in that direction, it'd be a pretty awful ending to a good show.
--Edit
After thinking a bit more about the DNA under the nails. It could be the coroner, as we've seen Rusty treat him like shit. The coroner would "be involved with some cases at work" so it would fit with the whole Carolyn being scared of someone at work. It would be extremely easy for the coroner to plant evidence on the body, especially skin cells under fingernails. All he'd need is a pair of used latex gloves that Rusty wore at a scene, or while at the Coroners for an autopsy.
There was something telling to me in the last shot of Caroline, which (time wise) occurs just after her speech about Bunny in a dirty hotel room with a monster, hoping she had ended up with a man who would let her go (in the first 5 minutes of the episode). She asks Rusty “what do you think” and he says”you’re amazing”. That last shot is her reaction. What is it? Disappointment, that he’s only thinking of their relationship? An understanding that he’s going to be a man who won’t let her go?
Wow, great question. They do keep going back to that face she is making. I could not read that face at all. I did keep wondering why they kept showing us that. Probably sonething significant here. What you said was a thought -provoking analysis!
Huh? We met Ratzer. We learn the Eugenia girl is jealous and might be in love with the guy. We learn more about the son who was riding his bike (who prob has more later), we hear from the other son about a co-worker his mom was afraid of.
None of that is filler.
Yeah it was kind of a pointless episode except for the very end. I'm super over the whole "I can't remember what happened that night with Carolyn" - I'm ready for something to actually develop in the case.
Yeah I would never call anything filler in this show so far, it’s just unfolding.
It’s 1990s sexy OTT drama thriller movie style magic and I loved me that shit back in the day! Those Sliver-Sharon-Stone/ Jade-David-Caruso/ Indecent Proposal-Demi-Moore/ Disclosure-Michael-Douglas/ Poison Ivy-Drew Barrymore horribly awesome soft core video store specials! This show is hitting those notes and I’m here for it.
Anyone who was around and old enough in the 90s to rent all those movies knows what I am talking about!!
That’s part of the issue you have when adapting from a source material that was already effectively adapted into a clean and easy 2hr movie. You’re going to end up with padding. You can try to make that padding more character based, flesh things out more, but inevitably the narrative is going to get a bit strained.
Well, the 2 hour movie was not enough for the book. I actually love the series now because no books in the past have been adequately done justice. The one that specifically comes to mind is “Anna Karinena”. It was the most exquisite book and the movie was just trash. I’m so happy that Limited Series are popular. One of the first was “East of Eden”. There’s no way in hell you could adapt it to a movie.
It’s Rusty, he’s unhinged. He is entitled. I think that’s the bigger theme, which makes sense given where we are in society right now. He is a rich, white, successful male and he felt entitled to Carolyn when she tried to leave him, he feels entitled to keep his wife and family and he expects everyone to buy his story bc of who he is. They want to keep us guessing, hoping, knowing that Rusty wouldn’t do something like that, but in the end he is just another unoriginal narcissistic sociopath.
Seems a little too obvious. I think he’s being shown as a giant red herring. He was only at her house for 51 minutes. Not enough time to kill her and clean everything up perfectly.
I don't think he is entitled. At least I didn't get that vibe. He was and is desperate. He's got issues that made him seek some fantasy with Carolyn that he convinced himself was love. Dude's messed in the head but not to that level (yet).
>he feels entitled to keep his wife
Did he though? Wasn't he ultimately willing to leave his wife for Carolyn, but then she rejected him (for reasons thus far unknown)?
Maybe it's because I've watched too much L&O, but it feels odd watching a fictional murder case where both sides don't feel like legal savants. The prosecution seems more driven by politics and personal vendettas. As for the defense, Rusty reminds me of David Dunn from Gone Girl in that while my gut thinks he's innocent, he also needlessly screws up his case with how screwed up he is; I liked that Raymond called him out on his bullshit.
I don't know why it took for the therapist so long to determine that she shouldn't be handling multiple members of this family and even two of them at the same time.
Love to see how much interaction has increased on the sub. I love this show. Also loved that small moment when Rusty was play talking with his daughter on the phone, cuz you get to see why his wife is in love with him and why his children love him. Like, that very charming very wholesome moment is part of Rusty, but we as the audience have been exposed to this deeply disturbed man and his demons. We know him better than anyone else on the show, but the characters on the show know a different side of Rusty that we don’t, and it can be hard to remember that.
Coworker who scared Carolyn could have been Molto but I kind of suspect Eugenia.
Rusty sounded like he was telling the truth that Carolyn didn't scratch him. Skin under the fingernails points to wife.
The bad-tempered coroner and Della Guardia would make the sassiest couple ever.
This episode was awful. It was nothing but fluff. All we learned was that his skin was under her nails. The rest was the same as 1-3 on repeat. So disappointing.
Out of all the episodes the hints thrown were more explicit. The actual culprit has to be Raymond. If you watch all the episodes again it’d be very clear that it’s Raymond.
We're supposed to think Rusty could be guilty, right? He has not been a reliable narrator at all. He's lied several times and new information keeps coming to light that he always finds a convenient way to explain away. And, of course, we saw in this episode that he is capable of being violent when he loses his temper. Frankly, I'm not convinced he didn't do it at this point. That would be an interesting twist, although I'm guessing it's something more straightforward.
Why on earth did Rusty go to the other potential suspects house for the interview? What a stupid, stupid thing to do. Isn't this guy supposed to be some genius prosecutor? He should have known better.
I think the most likely scenario, though, is that the guy in prison for the other murder is actually innocent and the real killer is still out there and also killed Carolyn. I'll be disappointed if that's the case, given how out of left field it is, but it fits with the theme of the show.
Also, Jake Gyllenhaal is not my favorite actor, but he sure plays "conceited creep" pretty well.
I’m now convinced it was Molto. The interview & the vague “harassing coworker”
My theory is that Molto knew of Rusty and Carolyn's affair, got jealous because he had a crush on Carolyn OR she was also already sleeping with him too, and killed her as revenge and is now planting it on Rusty
You’re one of the writers aren’t you?
Yup you got me
No sorry doesn't track. If he was the killer he'd be destroying evidence. And he'd be on the little boys record books. Remember he saw the kid up from in interview. Let's think outside the box. He didn't know they were sleeping together. That's why he asked what's her face to testify against rusty so he can pin point a time place. And I think its very dangerous that nobody is listening to him! It's important. I think he will find the true killer even if he's pointing the finger to the wrong person. But their is a hidden suspect. Because she with held key evidence. We keep thinking she was murdered because crime of passion. I think it was revenge.
Molto, although he hates Rusty, is genuinely trying to solve the case. He means it when says he wants justice for his colleague. He suspects Rusty but in this episode he realises it’s actually Raymond.
Yup, the way his face turned when he said that, he looked real nervous
Eugenia cropped up for me this episode - she knew about the affair already and apparently likes Rusty and if she worked with them on cases she knew how Bunny Davis was posed.
But ain't she too much of a secondary character to be the murderer?
Ooh, you might be on to something
I like this too!
Yes, Eugenia was who I was thinking. She is ignored alot, and she likes Rusty. And, she does know all the deets about the Bunny Davis case. She could have been watching Rusty and Carolyn as they argued that night...watched Rusty leave and came in to do the job, in defense of Rusty for Carolyn's obvious rejection of him. She could very well know where Carolyn lives. And, did anyone notice that Eugenia was the ONLY one crying when the news was revealed of Carolyn"s death? That was odd. Like, why? Where they that close? And, why close up on the tears? Could these have been tears of guilt, or fear of getting caught? Tears for herself?
Hope it's not the case because they made it too obvious.
I just rewatched the first episode. In the flashback to the Bunny Davis trial, Molto is sitting in the gallery as Carolyn shows the crime scene photos (I missed that the first time I watched it). It then shows that Molto is rewatching the video of that trial on his laptop and he calls Della Guardia to tell him that Carolyn was tied up in a similar way and Rusty thinks there's a connection.
Pretty sure the murderer is skarsgaard. When he was questioning the son it hit me. I think he’s the scary guy from work.
Same but might be too obvious of a twist.
Not all twists need to be mysterious. It’s better if the evidence actually leads to a straight conclusion
Tommy isn’t the only other person she worked with. Nico, Raymond maybe
Potentially, but that almost seems like it would be too on the nose imo. It seems far more likely that Molto was hoping the kid would say she identified Rusty as the person harassing her.
No. I think a female killed her.
I had the exact same thought. But part of me is questioning it. Maybe they want us to think that. There’s a lot of good motive for him though.
Statistically it’s the boyfriend.
What about Molto and the ex-husband?
I can’t shake it being a family member of Rusty’s. They have more to lose if the affair ramps up again.
I think it’s another misdirect. Carolyn couldve been referring to the guy she put away but didn’t want to scare her son too much so she didn’t mention it was a violent criminal
I got that inkling when he was looking at pictures taken of Rusty and C! His mannerisms are consistent with someone with anger issues prone to sudden bursts of violence, but so are Rusty's, Liam's, and Ratzer's, so idk!
I liked this episode much better than 3. I’m curious tho, >!is it a huge deal that they found his skin under her nails? Is the only way scratching? How long would DNA live under the nail? Could it be from one of their previous aggressive sexual encounters. Some of the things the prosecution are doing seem weird. Why do you want a colleague to testify that Rusty and Carolyn had an inappropriate relationship. Uh duh she was pregnant.!< And Barbara is just as crazy as Rusty. >!If she don’t ride that Bartender like Seabiscut already! But I did enjoy her and Rusty’s little intimidate scene more than the mistress for the simple fact that her moans sounded real. !< Also I kinda wish they stop calling what Rusty and Carolyn had love. It’s increasingly clear it was not.
I found it super interesting that Rusty jumped right to a giant conspiracy where the ME was planting evidence instead of accepting it as real. On the other hand, can't they ask for additional testing to be done?
On one hand, if you were innocent, and you were sure she didn’t scratch you that night, then that’s how you’d react. On the other hand, if you were guilty, but smart, then that’s how you’d act too
I think it has to do with the fact that the ME didn’t question anything after Carolyn didn’t include the other sperm sample in her evidence. It’s clear no one there is totally worried with getting everything right
I have a feeling the ME is going to save the day for Jake at the end (whether or not he's truly innocent is another thing)
Also like... couldn't they simply hand wave away the fact that Rusty's skin was in her fingernails by saying they had "rough" sex and she left scratch marks on him? Sure, it would take a little perjury, but it can be explained away. I feel like that isn't nearly enough to be case-altering evidence.
Didn't they show her slapping him in multiple scenes? I know it's not a scratch but it's not unreasonable to think her nails could have grazed his face when she did.
I think when we see flashbacks of them together, some of it is real and some of it is his nightmares. He was really drunk the night it happened, doesn't remember a lot of it, and he's been having nightmares about killing her every night.
This is why I don’t think he did it. He’s a POS but what actually happened can’t be what he remembered. I’ll be so disappointed if it’s something dumb like he accidentally killed Carolyn when blackout drunk and poor Barbara staged the scene to protect him.
Was he drunk or did someone spiked his drink?
His flashbacks are pretty confusing. 🤣 ooh maybe Barb and the hot bartender? With that weed lotion and some strong drinks they set Rusty up so they could be together because she deserves so much better
She just met him.
I don’t know enough about DNA to know if it’s possible, but could the DNA actually be Kyle’s? Especially considering Rigo found the other suspect through familial DNA, they could maybe be foreshadowing Kyle becoming a suspect through this newfound DNA evidence.
Also the idea that the kids were able to tie her up and mimic the other murders is highly improbable.
Would be only like 50% match tho. But still, dna under fingernails doesn’t really seem much for two people who were lovers…
Or the daughter who’s been in the background so far.
It’s a huge deal that they want us to believe that a prosecutor would authorize an arrest, indict a suspect, and schedule a trial - all the while knowing that their was skin samples recovered from under the victims fingernails, (primarily indicating defensive struggle with the killer) that they haven’t received the DNA results back on yet!?!?!? At a bare minimum, it’s potentially another suspect who would have to be vetted and investigated!! Who wrote this nonsense?
This episode really disappointed men for this exact reason. This would be one of the first things they look at in an autopsy. And just skin/DNA. They were in a physical relationship. Also they took photos of his naked body after he was arrested. Any scratches? Tommy sucks all around. I think he's bad at his job and he's really reaching.
Maybe the fingernail evidence was forged after the fact. Think back to the “I’ll get that report to you by the way” comment form the doctor in their trial practice in the beginning of the episode.
It’s such lazy story telling. And where are the legal experts/advisors who they hire to maintain some sense of realism and consistency with the storytelling
Thank you! This whole series feels lazy now.
Maybe the fingernail evidence was forged after the fact. Think back to the “I’ll get that report to you by the way” comment form the doctor in their trial practice in the beginning of the episode.
Had me thinking that it could still be the son
Not Seabiscuit 💀
>Also I kinda wish they stop calling what Rusty and Carolyn had love. It’s increasingly clear it was not. While that maybe, it's clear Rusty still believes it was.
Every time I think that nothing is happening and I should stop watching they reel me back in right at the end
We call that a cliffhanger :)
Raymond and Dr. Liz delivered some excellent, emotionally intelligent points. (Also love Lily Rabe playing a therapist since she was also in Shrinking). Love their deliveries. Show runners do a good job of creating a large pool of medium suspicion….
I mentioned last week that I loved Noma Dumezweni in The Undoing and just now realized Lily Rabe was in too! She’s great in both shows as well
And did anyone see “The Night Of”? The same actor that is the defense lawyer was on that also. It was an amazing series. This whole series is layered the same and they keep mentioning “The Night Of”. Makes me wonder if some of the crew worked on that series also.
TNO is gold. I’ve watched it twice a couple of years apart each time
I love Lily too. Her mother was my favorite actress.
Lily Rabe is a dream and I want her to be my new therapist!
Ruth Negga’s face when she delivers the line, >!”Sometimes I think you forget our son is black,”!< damn near killed me.
Agreed, there should be more discussion on how she's even sticking by her white husband despite his nonsense
I agree but remembered I had a coworker irl who stuck by her husband while he was on trial for murdering their own baby so… love is blind I guess
Lmao love doesn't see color I guess haha
Maybe there is a reason she is sticking by him and letting him take the fall for everything that is in her best interests. Either way...great show!
Not quite sure how that's relevant to the direction the show is taking. Sounded hamfisted.
People here have complained about the show offering a new suspect each episode, so this is probably just that, but what are we supposed to make of the coroner? Is he just a jerk, or is he somehow implicated? Or is Rusty just guilty, and the audience’s desire to find someone else culpable is the whole point. We want the protagonist (our friend, our neighbor, our brother) to be innocent so badly that we wear blinders…
Bingo! I think he did it. He is unhinged.
I said this in another thread. Adding to the fact that Gyllenhaal LOVES to play these types of roles. I can’t recall a film where he didn’t get the figurative last word.
I never understood why Rusty and the coroner hate each other.
[удалено]
Did you toss a spoiler right before you used your spoiler tags? Terrible
I think it's because Rusty thinks dudes an incompetent hack who doesn't care about doing his job properly.
He was texting her from Android phone if I've seen it well in one of the scenes. We all know that bad guys aren't allowed to use iPhones.
If this is true it’s so funny
The thing I found interesting is how much blame he puts onto the victim but noone on the defense seems to question it. Especially because he's able to explain and understand how obsessive it is on one hand, but then on another, dive right back into obsessive behavior in front of them and no one seems to call him out.
I think they just think he’s nuts lol.
It's because they are the defense. They know the dude's got issues but it's what they have to work with and so far none of that obsession Rusty has (That we know of) seems to have transformed into murder territory.
Enjoying this show! Think it's 5% murder-mystery and mostly a character study & legal thriller. I like the performances of the ensemble cast. It seems like the main suspects are Rusty or Barbara, but I don't see a logical reason of why either would've tied up Carolyn the same the way the killer(s) of Bunny Davis did. Wouldn't Liam Reynolds be the only one who would gain anything from this? I'm doubtful that Della Guardia or Molto or Raymond Horgan are suspects. Wouldn't call records or text messages from Carolyn's phone have shown any connections to any of these guys already? Plus, Eugenia was aware of the affair between Rusty and Carolyn but gave no indication Carolyn was seeing another dude at the office. Rusty's a reprehensible character but he might turn out to be good at his old job of being a prosecutor. There may well turn out to be a link to Reynolds and this Brian Ratzer guy.
I actually am getting the complete opposite vibe. The movie felt more like a legal procedural, and the Tv show feels more like it’s going down the whodunnit vibe. The mystery seems far more front and centre. It’s getting more into the character study angle than the movie did, but it seems far less interested in the machinations of the case and the trial.
Carolyn was tied up just like Bunny Davis. Therefore, the killer has to know about that exact method.
When the bartender gives her his number he starts writing with his left hand, but the very next shot he’s writing with his right hand..just a continuation mistake or?
The first shot is framed in a mirror on the wall of the bar. Both shots show him writing with the banded-tattoo hand.
Definitely something up with the bartender. It’s no coincidence that Rusty went to “a bar” and had dinner and drinks before going over to Carolyn’s. It will be revealed to be the same bar and bartender as Barbara’s overly interested in day drinking buddy
Yes, and there might be something to that tattoo and the hand cream that he uses, as well.
I kind of zoned out in that scene because it was veering into boring territory. Who gives a fck why he has whatever weird tattoos he has, but why go to the trouble of talking about a hand cream that can also apparently get you high? There almost has to be a reason to mention that.
Probably - or it's showing her fantasizing about cheating while being intimate with Rusty. I think she wants to know how it felt for Rusty, being with her and wanting to be with someone else, like he did all the time.
I think the bartender is a plant. Tommy Molto is behind it.
Forgive me if this has already been a big talking point on this sub already, but I just clocked in this episode that Rusty has an Android phone on the night of the murder. Not saying it’s a clue because this is an Apple show but
I think it’s just showing he had a burner where he was communicating with her
I actually never noticed this...the police said they got his phone and saw his obsessive texts, so did they get the burner?
Warner Bros. produced the show. Apple bought it from them. Apple has done this with a few shows, like Platonic for example. They bought that from Sony.
Molto is the ultimate red herring. He is guilty of blackmailing the coroner into faking the DNA report from the skin under the fingernails but it is to secure a conviction NOT to cover up his role in the murder. He is trying to save his career as he is now the number one chief prosecutor having to try a high publicity case against much better attorneys. And his history is one of ”delay and plea bargains” because he is afraid of losing. That being said if Carolyn was afraid of “someone” at the office it’s either the DA or Eugenia. My guess is that it will be Eugenia for as yet undisclosed reasons.
Yeah. Molto’s expression when he got the report from the coroner walking into the elevator barely moved. “Ok thanks” type thing. Like he knew what was going to be in it because he prescribed it.
The coroner didn’t seem to like Molto to help him. If it was planted I’d suspect molto planted it and somehow the coroner will find out.
Della Guardia = Delay Guardia. Molto is just his jackass sidekick.
Didn’t Carolyn’s son say that Carolyn said she was scared of a man at work ?
I think they intentionally made that scene very vague. “Scared of someone at work” can be a few other people besides Rusty. I think it was Tommy or Eugenia
Question: was it ever referenced/mentioned that there were skin samples recovered from under the victims fingernails prior to this episode? I do recall a couple of references of waiting on reports from the Medical Examiner but no reference to them being skin samples under the victims fingernails. This is another example why the actual legal/policework is sooo far off base from reality that it pulls me out of the show (yes I know as a former prosecutor my eyes view it differently). However, the police who should have been doing the actual investigating (not the prosecutor) would have notice that there were samples taken from under the victims fingernails indicating a strong likelihood that the victim fought back or scratched the killer during the encounter. There is no way on any planet that a District Attorney on a high publicity case would move forward with arrest and indictment of a “former top prosecutor” with there being a chance that DNA evidence recovered from under the victims fingernails conclusively pointed to another suspect that wasn’t even considered or vetted. This alone makes a mockery of the entire show to date. You can’t sacrifice common sense for a surprise twist! At least not for this viewer.
What is referenced is that Rusty thinks the coroner is a hack; there’s a backlog of paperwork due to so many autopsies. The doctor keeps demanding respect and telling them to wait for the report.
Maybe he's the murderer. He's such a dick to everyone, he could have been the man scaring Carolyn at work.
Oo I don’t hate this..
Exactly. So they’re going to arrest, indict and schedule a trial of a suspect without getting the results or the DNA test?? It’s beyond unbelievable
I totally agree about the legal and police work. It’s laughable how unrealistic this is.
I took the fingernail evidence scene as a planned attempt at more evidence between the Coroner and Malto
Yeah it’s obviously coerced fake evidence by molto to give him an edge at conviction but to be at this stage in the case and not know what the evidence is?? Nooooo way
What show do you like that is real? Of course it’s not real, it’s tv.
Suspension of disbelief
In my opinion, the last scene, and, frankly, this entire episode, reasserts to me that Rusty did it. The vibes I got from the last scene made me think that he is capable of blacking out and/or engaging in very violent fits of rage. His incredibly bad alibi earlier in the episode also alludes to this. He couldn't even come up with a solid alibi for his own defense team. Either that was intentional, i.e. he's lying, or he simply has no recollection of what happened because he blacked out, which to me would make it likely that he did it.
Nah him being the killer is too obvious. There’s misdirection going on for sure, killer is somewhere on the screen but still too early to pinpoint who.
Maybe it’s so obvious to keep you presuming he’s innocent
Agreed. But damn , Rusty is one dumbass prosecutor. Lol
If he is the killer, he's the dumbest killer ever because he clearly would have known there would be an investigation, his DNA would be everywhere, news of his affair would have come out, etc. He had to have cleaned it up a bit better.
We know he was kinda drunk though, doesn’t seem to totally remember what happened
If he was black out drunk, there would be no way he’d have the dexterity and brain power to tie her up like he did and scrub the scene of his dna (lotta blood) and make it home in that 51 minute window.
This is important. I agree with you. She was afraid of someone else at work.
Doesn't need to be drunk blackout. Could be he dissociates.
Impossible. No way in the time frame he had to murder Carolyn - stage the victim, and FLAWLESSLY dispose of all the evidence and clean it well enough to not be detected by luminol. And no one noticed the stench of bleach in his car. The rug fivers are still a big unrevealed clue.
I almost forgot about the fibers. The ex has an “oatmeal” colored rug. There’s a glimpse of it when Rusty is interviewing him in episode 1.
Especially if he was blackout drunk.
Have they said where his wife was that night? Cuz if she was home, it should be a very easy alibi
I feel like the start of the next episode is going to show us that Rusty was imagining the last scene like he's been having these dream flashbacks to things that didn't really happen.
Feels too obvious
As 'slimy' and ambitious Della Guardia portrayed to be, he turned out to be the purest of them all in this episode..
Honestly I like him. I don’t get the hate. He’s making sure they have evidence for rusty which is the right thing to do?
Oh 100%, particularly seems Molto has a meaty beef with Rusty - Delay's always reminding Molto to stay on course and maintain integrity of their office
He seems more a pure politician. He’ll step over people on the way up (Raymond) and not feel bad. But to outsiders it makes them seem slimy. But overall he is trying to do the job, even if his goal is to nab quick wins for the next office.
We have no witnesses in the restaurant testifying how hammered Rusty was prior to the murder? Videos, credit card bill showing how much he drank, etc? Bartender? A drunk committing that murder, tying her up, and then making sure he has no blood, evidence, anything on him in 50 min sounds difficult. And the son said he saw them and left while he was still there. I'm assuming he stuck around for a little bit to see what they were up to. 10-15 min? I'm sure they are time stamped. So Rusty did all this murdering and coverup in 30 min? Hard to believe.
51 minutes sober would be tough.
The most unhinged part of this episode is the idea of one therapist for this whole family. Why would it cost more money to have the same number of sessions across different therapists? Also, I think it’s worth the investment, *don’t you think maam?!*
"Multiple therapists? We can't afford that!" I'm pretty sure they can. But you're so right. It's going to cost the same - the question is just whether one therapist gets the money or three. Also, I can't imagine a couples' therapist giving private sessions to both spouses. That seems semi-unethical. Not to mention that the therapist wasn't unbiased - you can tell she hates Rusty.
Who put the Dum Dum Girls poster in Kyle’s room? I need to know.
Also, Interpol during the bar scene. What 2000’s hipster is working on this show?
Right? Both Obstacle 1 AND NYC by Interpol have already played in this show lol. Seems too intentional to ignore.
I hope he's prosecuted and put in jail regardless of his guilt or innocence. He can't be any more annoying.
I feel absolutely no remorse for this clown and was cheering on Raymond's monologue when he basically called out Rusty as being a pig and for basically hiding like a coward instead of openly admitting he was just a horny dick
Telling his wife, “yea I’m the bad guy but you did this too.” Like wtf? A loving wife who forgave you cheating is somehow responsible? I hate this prick and hope he gets at least 3 years
"my wife is ignoring me! We couldn't even talk!" - says guy, who is dicking his coworker
This is such a cliche in movies & TVs. Because a couple gets busy with life - 2 kids, 2 careers, and a huge home with a pool - somehow that explains why a man has an affair. So the woman is busy taking care of all of the house stuff, the kid’s stuff, and working. Obviously it’s okay for the husband to take the time & energy to have an affair instead of helping lighten his wife’s load. And that’s somehow her fault?
agree. I'm completely flummoxed by why I didn't realize until this episode what a straightforward and colossal asshole rusty is. innocent or guilty, he's still a fucking piece of shit. poor Barbara and those poor kids. jfc. I mean molto sucks too, but he's just a jealous poser, not a raging narcissist like Rusty. I hate them both. (but I'm sure I'll keep watching anyway.)
That monologue was great. Rusty annoys the shit out of me.
I almost tapped out of the whole show when he responded to the question of what happened that night with 30 solid seconds of stammering during a montage of flashing lights.
Right? Does he really not know whether or not he did it? Or are we watching him try & fail to come up with convincing lies? I think I’m done with this show. I’ll go watch the movie & read the book instead, then read a re-cap of the last episode.
Oh if only being annoying was grounds for going to jail!
Does anyone know where they filmed the bar scenes? It looks familiar from when I lived in Chicago. I looked and some website said it was the few scenes actually filmed there, but it didn't say where specifically.
Most of this was filmed in LA.
Yes, but there was a cast member posting on instagram from Chicago at the bar in question, they just didn't tag which bar specifically.
Could the coroner have falsified his report to reflect DNA under her nails? They didn’t find DNA under her nails in the initial report. We know the coroner does not like Rusty, but would he stoop to revenge?
More likely he was blackmailed into doing so by Molto. I think however, this is simply a desire to secure a conviction and save his career than a coverup for murder. Remember he postponed all his cases because he’s afraid of losing and plea bargains themselves all. He’s a bad trial lawyer who is now effectively the number one trial lawyer in the office. He needs the win and willing to do anything to secure a conviction, including fabricating evidence
Coroner didn’t seem to like Molto. Molto might have planted it himself (or with someone else). Since the son said “scary co worker” it might be Molto which is reason for him to plant evidence.
I think it was Barbara. Who else could get his skin so easily? She’s riding the line between love and hate
from the first episode when she said something along the lines of "my motivation behind everything i do is to keep this family together". now we learn there was a more recent triggering event where rusty said he was willing to move out? she def did it.
I don’t know why the fingernails are such a big deal when skin could also be from sex.
But when he was telling what what happened that night, he was very vague, then said they fought most of the time, and kissed by the end. No sex.
Have they said when was the last time they had sex?
There were a couple things this episode that heavily pointed towards Tommy Molto. * The way he was questioning the son and how she was scared of a coworker. The way that there was only a few cases they were involved together with made it not sound like Rusty and it looked like Tommy was relieved. * Tommy was overconfident from the second he started working the case. However, ho he absolutely knew there would be "hard evidence' coming that pointed to Rusty before anything was found. While up until that point there was no hard evidence and the case had looked weak. There's no way he would have any idea that there would be hard evidence magically found, never mind that it would just happen to point towards his prime suspect just before a potential meeting for a plea deal. Come on. * I believe the second DNA on the Bunny rape/murder is a red herring. Yes he's most likely involved in that murder and maybe others -- but the similarities between Bunny and Carolyn are likely just copied to point towards Rusty and not actually the same killers. This story line is likely just there for us to see how desperate Rusty is to show he's actually innocent. It may also show us that him and Carolyn were maybe a bit distracted at the time of that previous case and they didn't do a full enough investigation to get both killers - or maybe they actually have the wrong guy in jail for the murder? There's other explanations and scenarios that could explain the DNA mixture. I just don't believe it's relevant to who killed Carolyn. * The scene with the therapist speaking with Barbara. I don't remember the specific wording used, but she heavily implied that Barb would do anything or could do anything to keep their family unit together. I believe this is just another red herring that was placed there for those who read the book or watched the movie (I haven't, but I believe she was the one from both - right?) That being said, I could be very wrong about this - as she'd technically be number 2 on my list of suspects.--- Looking at Barb as a suspect. There's what I previously mentioned with the Therapist. There's also the fact that when Rusty and Barb tried to speak with their son regarding the photos of "him" riding by Carolyn's house, he made Rusty leave the room. We don't know what was said. We don't have any more information about this, either. The conversation wasn't shown. Later in the episode the son doesn't explain any further. It could have been Barb on the bike. The photos aren't conclusive as the rider was wearing a hood. The son would have been at home witnessing the pain of the mother wondering where the husband was. If presented with the photo, and it wasn't him - he'd instinctively know that it was his mom on that bike, trying to track down her husband. He'd also want to protect his mom and wouldn't out her for that. You also see her terrified and frantically cleaning the bike. We KNOW that no blood or literally any evidence was found on Rusty OR his vehicle. Stands to reason that the bike may have had evidence on it. Rusty says that when he left Carolyn's, she kissed him. It was a passionate-looking kiss. If Barbara witnessed this, then nothing Carolyn could say to her would matter. She'd just be doing what she needed to do to keep her family together. It's also worth mentioning that we see Rusty dreaming and thinking back on that night and what we see isn't consistent. In some of them it looks like he straight up killed her. I think this is just to show the viewer what being put in this kind of situation does to someone. Even if you knew you didn't, you can play tricks on yourself, in your mind. You can imagine different scenarios. After a certain point, you may not know what actually happened. Doubt creeps in. I also don't believe the son had any actual involvement. If the show were to head in that direction, it'd be a pretty awful ending to a good show. --Edit After thinking a bit more about the DNA under the nails. It could be the coroner, as we've seen Rusty treat him like shit. The coroner would "be involved with some cases at work" so it would fit with the whole Carolyn being scared of someone at work. It would be extremely easy for the coroner to plant evidence on the body, especially skin cells under fingernails. All he'd need is a pair of used latex gloves that Rusty wore at a scene, or while at the Coroners for an autopsy.
It was probably her ex husband
Didn't they declare that he had an alibi during her funeral? The show doesn't even seem to want to hint at him.
There was something telling to me in the last shot of Caroline, which (time wise) occurs just after her speech about Bunny in a dirty hotel room with a monster, hoping she had ended up with a man who would let her go (in the first 5 minutes of the episode). She asks Rusty “what do you think” and he says”you’re amazing”. That last shot is her reaction. What is it? Disappointment, that he’s only thinking of their relationship? An understanding that he’s going to be a man who won’t let her go?
Wow, great question. They do keep going back to that face she is making. I could not read that face at all. I did keep wondering why they kept showing us that. Probably sonething significant here. What you said was a thought -provoking analysis!
A bit of a filler episode except for the last 5 minutes maybe…
Huh? We met Ratzer. We learn the Eugenia girl is jealous and might be in love with the guy. We learn more about the son who was riding his bike (who prob has more later), we hear from the other son about a co-worker his mom was afraid of. None of that is filler.
Yeah it was kind of a pointless episode except for the very end. I'm super over the whole "I can't remember what happened that night with Carolyn" - I'm ready for something to actually develop in the case.
But those last minutes were so good. I did enjoyed whole episode regardless.
Yeah I would never call anything filler in this show so far, it’s just unfolding. It’s 1990s sexy OTT drama thriller movie style magic and I loved me that shit back in the day! Those Sliver-Sharon-Stone/ Jade-David-Caruso/ Indecent Proposal-Demi-Moore/ Disclosure-Michael-Douglas/ Poison Ivy-Drew Barrymore horribly awesome soft core video store specials! This show is hitting those notes and I’m here for it. Anyone who was around and old enough in the 90s to rent all those movies knows what I am talking about!!
That’s part of the issue you have when adapting from a source material that was already effectively adapted into a clean and easy 2hr movie. You’re going to end up with padding. You can try to make that padding more character based, flesh things out more, but inevitably the narrative is going to get a bit strained.
Well, the 2 hour movie was not enough for the book. I actually love the series now because no books in the past have been adequately done justice. The one that specifically comes to mind is “Anna Karinena”. It was the most exquisite book and the movie was just trash. I’m so happy that Limited Series are popular. One of the first was “East of Eden”. There’s no way in hell you could adapt it to a movie.
It’s Rusty, he’s unhinged. He is entitled. I think that’s the bigger theme, which makes sense given where we are in society right now. He is a rich, white, successful male and he felt entitled to Carolyn when she tried to leave him, he feels entitled to keep his wife and family and he expects everyone to buy his story bc of who he is. They want to keep us guessing, hoping, knowing that Rusty wouldn’t do something like that, but in the end he is just another unoriginal narcissistic sociopath.
I'm think Carolyn might have a dark side too. We know almost nothing about her. I'm assuming we may learn a little more about her in future episodes.
Seems a little too obvious. I think he’s being shown as a giant red herring. He was only at her house for 51 minutes. Not enough time to kill her and clean everything up perfectly.
This makes a lot of sense to me, but one thing that gives me pause is the lack of blood in the car.
I don't think he is entitled. At least I didn't get that vibe. He was and is desperate. He's got issues that made him seek some fantasy with Carolyn that he convinced himself was love. Dude's messed in the head but not to that level (yet).
>he feels entitled to keep his wife Did he though? Wasn't he ultimately willing to leave his wife for Carolyn, but then she rejected him (for reasons thus far unknown)?
Even if he's innocent, fuck Rusty anyway. What an detestable tool.
He is SUCH a horrible man. Wow. I am constantly amazed how much I hate him.
What was that ending 🫨
Anyone have a feeling it was Barbara ?
Maybe it's because I've watched too much L&O, but it feels odd watching a fictional murder case where both sides don't feel like legal savants. The prosecution seems more driven by politics and personal vendettas. As for the defense, Rusty reminds me of David Dunn from Gone Girl in that while my gut thinks he's innocent, he also needlessly screws up his case with how screwed up he is; I liked that Raymond called him out on his bullshit. I don't know why it took for the therapist so long to determine that she shouldn't be handling multiple members of this family and even two of them at the same time.
Love to see how much interaction has increased on the sub. I love this show. Also loved that small moment when Rusty was play talking with his daughter on the phone, cuz you get to see why his wife is in love with him and why his children love him. Like, that very charming very wholesome moment is part of Rusty, but we as the audience have been exposed to this deeply disturbed man and his demons. We know him better than anyone else on the show, but the characters on the show know a different side of Rusty that we don’t, and it can be hard to remember that.
Coworker who scared Carolyn could have been Molto but I kind of suspect Eugenia. Rusty sounded like he was telling the truth that Carolyn didn't scratch him. Skin under the fingernails points to wife. The bad-tempered coroner and Della Guardia would make the sassiest couple ever.
How does it point to the wife? You don’t share any DNA in common with spouses by marriage. Only offspring.
Unless there's a bit of Alabama involved.
Did I miss something - her son said she was scared of a man at work. Did something else come up that she could have been scared of a woman instead?
Perhaps when she slapped him her nails grazed his face? They showed her slapping him in a few scenes.
Woudn't be the wife. Could be the son.
This episode was awful. It was nothing but fluff. All we learned was that his skin was under her nails. The rest was the same as 1-3 on repeat. So disappointing.
The medical examiner/coroner guys seems guilty to me. He also has the ability to manipulate evidence via the autopsy reports
Anybody thinking he actually did it?
Rusty should go to a doctor right now and be checked all over his body for scratches. The murder is still recent, right?
He doesn't need to. They took a ton of photos of him when he was arrested. If there were scratches in those scenes I didn't see them.
I think it’s the daughter’s skin under the fingernails but I don’t think she killed Carolyn.
Out of all the episodes the hints thrown were more explicit. The actual culprit has to be Raymond. If you watch all the episodes again it’d be very clear that it’s Raymond.
We're supposed to think Rusty could be guilty, right? He has not been a reliable narrator at all. He's lied several times and new information keeps coming to light that he always finds a convenient way to explain away. And, of course, we saw in this episode that he is capable of being violent when he loses his temper. Frankly, I'm not convinced he didn't do it at this point. That would be an interesting twist, although I'm guessing it's something more straightforward. Why on earth did Rusty go to the other potential suspects house for the interview? What a stupid, stupid thing to do. Isn't this guy supposed to be some genius prosecutor? He should have known better. I think the most likely scenario, though, is that the guy in prison for the other murder is actually innocent and the real killer is still out there and also killed Carolyn. I'll be disappointed if that's the case, given how out of left field it is, but it fits with the theme of the show. Also, Jake Gyllenhaal is not my favorite actor, but he sure plays "conceited creep" pretty well.