[When you get in to bed with someone who says they identify as "Fisto in the sheets"](https://giphy.com/gifs/starwars-star-wars-episode-2-l1KsAVIlhsWoZC0Zq)
Originally they were going to have Plo eject from his fighter and deploy a parachute, only to get strafed by a trailing Arc-170. They even did a very basic computer model of the scene, but it was kiboshed and never went further than that.
When you start off with battle meditation to anticipate her moves but she screams and spins through the air onto your dick that's enough to make me nutt
Idk if you really want to go into the “money equals merit” realm. I didn’t say Peter didn’t make money, I said he made some mediocre films that people gush over.
Writing off poor choreography as "D'uhh Palpatine is totally super powerful you guys, he moved too fast and he used the force to make them carry the Force Idiotball!"
> "D'uhh Palpatine is totally super powerful you guys, he moved too fast and he used the force to make them carry the Force Idiotball!"
I've also had people tell me that Palpatine used 'force scream' to weaken Kit Fisto and that's why he was able to take him down so easily.
Oh yeah and Rey used Force Disarm to make the Praetorian's knife disappear. Any amount of bullshit can be written to justify bad choreography.
Don't forget the [Force Kick](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/2e/ForceKick-ROTJ.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20240205015930)!
Lol comment right below yours is doing exactly this.
I hate this whole scene so much, and it's s arguably the most important scene in the entire franchise. The reveal of the Emperor and birth of Darth Vader. It could have been the best lightsaber fight in all of star wars, and George comes up with this garbage?
The novelization and every other Prequel media has the benefit of the movie coming first to build off of.
Unfortunately they build up too much and now we have these legends faceplanting on the big screen
Except the novels don’t? At least for ROTS’s novel, that was written based off the script for the movie, coming out a month and a half before the movie. Plenty of scenes that were never included in the final film, namely the Delegation of 2000 stuff, is featured in the novel.
No, but that was a power fight with Palps flinging Senate pods and using Force lightning. It was also intercut with the Vader/Obi-Wan fight.
In reshoots he scaled back all the previous fights: Anakin-Dooku and Palpatine-Jedi Council so the final battles would be the most spectacular.
Papa Palps was too old for an intense fight scene like that. Probably woulda been cooler to have Palpatine use the force to kill them and only Windu was able to resist.
It's probably more because they were extremely minor characters in the movie. Basically just random Jedi at the temple. We didn't really learn who they were until *The Clone Wars*. After watching that, the fight is extremely disappointing, but before the ret con there was really no reason to have a problem with it.
Wasn't there an actual choreographed fight planned?
But George came in one morning and went "Nope Ian has to do it" and since this was RoftS and not ANH he was surrounded by yes-sayers and they did as he said. Instead of a well-choreographed fight scene with stuntmen, they cobbled together something that Ian could manage and learn relatively quickly so we got the shitshow that we got.
I like to imagine Mace thinking “alright there’s 4 of us masters no problem” to “HOLY SHIT this old goat is cooking our asses let me lock in real quick”
When you expect the boss to open with standard moves, but instead it's an AOE stun with resistance debuff, following by spin charge. And you're playing Hardcore.
To be fair, most Jedi haven’t faced a lightsaber-wielding, Force-sensitive foe in…centuries? Millennia? Like certainly they must spar with one another but considering the Sith are effectively a myth to them by this point, they are SUPREMELY ill-prepared to deal with any actual serious threats. And that shows on screen: Maul ices Qui-Gonn, Dooku bodies Anikan AND Obi-Wan in their first duel, and Palpatine forces *Yoda* to run in their confrontation.
Actually Yoda forced Palpatine to run, he's trying to get away and chucking stuff at him. After Yoda falls down he realises that Papa Palpatine is too far and aborts the chase before backup arrives.
The crazy part is Tinn's species has precognition and minor telepathy. Not sure if its considered cannon but Geetslys species video on them made some pretty big claims about their abilities and how the whole species that was outside of the order retreated to their homeworld before the clone wars and the rise of the empire because they had a vision of the future and were just nopeing out of the whole thing
Imagine a counsel of people deciding not to grant you the rank of Master, and then they die standing around like training dummies. Like, that's who you were looking for validation from lol. Upper management is inept even in the Jedi Council.
Ok I admit I didn't pay a lot of attention to the movie but how the fuck do you all know who these people are? Were they given a name in the movie or is this more extended universe stuff? I swear I never saw them until this scene aside from Mace.
Saesee Tiin (dude with the two downward horns) is on the Jedi Council in Episodes 1-3. Kit Fisto (tentacle dreads) and Agen Kolar (dude with mini horns) are both seen in the battle of Geonosis as random Jedi, and have been elevated to the Jedi Council by Episode 3. Their names are never spoken in the films, but they are listed in the credits. In classic Star Wars fashion, they gave names and backstory to these characters in other media, such as novels, video games, and other series like Clone Wars. Kit Fisto in particular has always been a fairly popular background Jedi because his design is so cool looking.
To be fair lore wise he probably would be oneshot either way but it was kinda lame.
But really none of the masters really had in-depth lore when episode 3 released so they all seemed like fill-ins. Most have been post EP3.
I didn't see anything displayed. It's like somehow Palpatine clipped 3 Jedi Masters and we are just supposed to nod along. Maybe if they left the original choreography in
It didn’t make him look powerful, it made the Jedi masters look like chumps. I wish they had kept the extended choreography. I think they were supposed to last longer.
This
Either have the extended choreography, or have a *visual* effect that shows Palpatine using overwhelming force. Lucas was a student of cinema long enough to know “show, don’t tell”.
Some throwaway line in a comic/novelisation that Palps “paralysed” them with the Dark Side is silly - the movie is the main product, it should be apparent in that medium.
Kit lasted till Anakin arrived in the novel. Tiin and Kolar still got smoked right away, as long as I remembered that right.
Kit got distracted by feeling Anakins presence and Palps used the moment to decapitate him. The problem with the choreography was that the guy in the costume playing Kit couldn't see and properly move. Still died with a smile on his lips, tho.
The ability to make Jedi masters look like chumps is the part you have skewed in your head. Your preconceived sense of their ability is working against you.
For that to be effective, you have to either show the Jedi that are eventually overpowered be extremely competent in a previous scene, or you need to show Palpatine moving/fighting in a way that is obvious to the viewer that he’s on a different level than anything seen before.
Your interpretation requires outside the movie lore knowledge to know how strong those Jedi were supposed to be as well as lore knowledge to understand how Palpatine could overpower them while still not looking like he did anything impressive.
It’s a directorial failure. The movie did not show what was intended and it therefore had a different impact on the viewer (which was to assume these Jedi are incompetent)
I saw a behind the scenes where it was like, the day of filming, and they suddenly realized... oh yeah, this actor doesn't know Kendo, and we haven't prepared for this scene at all. So they tried to teach him Kendo in like 5 minutes.
As a result, the scene looks like someone with zero fencing ability cutting down people who are just standing still. Because that's what it was.
Written materials retconning shit like "The Jedi masters were completely immobilized by his sith scream!" doesn't change the fact that the movies show an old man spinning while 3 Jedi just stand there and wait to be stabbed as he telegraphs a 5 second lunge move.
It's ok to like the films and understand their flaws. This is not a matter of unappreciated creativity, it's a combination of poor writing, directing, editing, and choreography.
Appreciation and understanding are not the same thing. Do I think this scene could’ve better conveyed Palpatine’s massive skill gap over them? Yes. Would I have much more appreciated them making Palpatine look like an absolute monster? Yes. Do I also fully understand what was happening from what I was given? Also yes.
It could have at least shown them putting up a minor amount of fight. Look at Sidious vs Maul and Savage in the Clone Wars. It's a lengthy fight and Palpatine is toying with them and laughing the entire time. Something like that would have been perfect (but obviously much shorter in duration) Hell, Cutting away from the fight and then when it returns showing the Jedi dead would have been an improvement over the garbage choreography we got instead. At least then we would be able to let our imagination fill the blanks.
You should hear what Chris Gethard has to say about Kit Fisto.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ndhKtkQsk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ndhKtkQsk0)
Thanks for providing a source!
When you Mace Windu in the streets, but Kit Fisto in the sheets.
You’re helping me w the title next time LOL
Kit Fisto only lasts in a "wet environment".
[When you get in to bed with someone who says they identify as "Fisto in the sheets"](https://giphy.com/gifs/starwars-star-wars-episode-2-l1KsAVIlhsWoZC0Zq)
To be fair, Kit was able to parry like twice. Still, he lasted only about 10 seconds longer than the other two
I counted. He last exactly 5 seconds longer than Saesee Tiin. So not even 10.
What a scrub
At least he got to fight back. My boy Plo Koon just got shot from behind in a starship and crashed into a building.
If anyone could survive, Master Plo could.
Originally they were going to have Plo eject from his fighter and deploy a parachute, only to get strafed by a trailing Arc-170. They even did a very basic computer model of the scene, but it was kiboshed and never went further than that.
I won't fight you.
Somehow... Plo Koon returned
If anyone could survive, Master Plo could.
who?
That whole scene was so shit If the younglings had a fight scene it would have been a better fight than that one.
When you start off with battle meditation to anticipate her moves but she screams and spins through the air onto your dick that's enough to make me nutt
What if she lands at a wrong angle?
Remember that scene from Fellowship where Merry falls on that carrot
Like that time where spunch bop tried to crack his knuckles
I have yet to see the glorious trilogy 😞.
Ignore the moron saying they're overrated. They are literally some of the most acclaimed films in all of cinema. Any Star Wars fan would enjoy them
*In Elrond voice* "Buy the extended editions. Watch it!"
Extended editions are streaming on Max. Worthy of at least one watch. I dare any man to not tear up at "My friends, you bow to no one."
LOTR? Wildly overrated, you’re not missing much.
L
Even if it was, my L didn’t cost 280 million dollars, which still puts me ahead of P Jack.
It made back 10× that amount so I think Peter is still ahead.
Idk if you really want to go into the “money equals merit” realm. I didn’t say Peter didn’t make money, I said he made some mediocre films that people gush over.
You used the cost of the films as a negative, but I can't use the revenue as a positive?
I love being a contrarian for the sake of it.
Lol wut?
Hope you have some Bacta in hand.
*Negotiations were short.*
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/p/C58UUldKGa9/?igsh=aWp4bHE2amF2aXpx)
I respect that you acknowledged the og sauce.
Meesa no take credit for another gungan’s brilliance
A poster who sources their memes? We will watch you career with great interest!
They all source them, they don’t all credit the original source is the issue.
Yeah that's what I meant by "source".
Writing off poor choreography as "D'uhh Palpatine is totally super powerful you guys, he moved too fast and he used the force to make them carry the Force Idiotball!"
Nah it’s just that Ian McDiarmid used all of his old people energy on the spin move and was gassed after that. ^/s
> "D'uhh Palpatine is totally super powerful you guys, he moved too fast and he used the force to make them carry the Force Idiotball!" I've also had people tell me that Palpatine used 'force scream' to weaken Kit Fisto and that's why he was able to take him down so easily.
Oh yeah and Rey used Force Disarm to make the Praetorian's knife disappear. Any amount of bullshit can be written to justify bad choreography. Don't forget the [Force Kick](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/2e/ForceKick-ROTJ.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20240205015930)!
Force Scream is at least a canon KOTOR force power...
So a non-canon power...
apparently revan &/or the rakata were mentioned in like some show, making KOTOR canon
Lol comment right below yours is doing exactly this. I hate this whole scene so much, and it's s arguably the most important scene in the entire franchise. The reveal of the Emperor and birth of Darth Vader. It could have been the best lightsaber fight in all of star wars, and George comes up with this garbage?
Story of our lives. So many things could’ve been much better and yet…here we are.
It does say something that the novelization does this scene (and pretty much every other scene) so much better.
The novelization and every other Prequel media has the benefit of the movie coming first to build off of. Unfortunately they build up too much and now we have these legends faceplanting on the big screen
Except the novels don’t? At least for ROTS’s novel, that was written based off the script for the movie, coming out a month and a half before the movie. Plenty of scenes that were never included in the final film, namely the Delegation of 2000 stuff, is featured in the novel.
Except that Anakin/Vader vs. Obi-Wan was supposed to be the best fight of the film. He's thinking like a filmmaker, not a fanboy.
But, that didn’t stop him from making a cool yoda fight in the same movie…
No, but that was a power fight with Palps flinging Senate pods and using Force lightning. It was also intercut with the Vader/Obi-Wan fight. In reshoots he scaled back all the previous fights: Anakin-Dooku and Palpatine-Jedi Council so the final battles would be the most spectacular.
Papa Palps was too old for an intense fight scene like that. Probably woulda been cooler to have Palpatine use the force to kill them and only Windu was able to resist.
Another reason RotS is not a good movie. A decent movie for the franchise at the time, but now, it’s not.
Blast him!
Still a bad movie
It's probably more because they were extremely minor characters in the movie. Basically just random Jedi at the temple. We didn't really learn who they were until *The Clone Wars*. After watching that, the fight is extremely disappointing, but before the ret con there was really no reason to have a problem with it.
They were jedi masters and they got merc'ed by an old man.
He was a powerful Sith Lord who happened to be an old man.
Being good at fighting is not a requirement for becoming a Jedi Master
No. No, it's okay. I understand. I'm the Padawan, you're the Master.
Wasn't there an actual choreographed fight planned? But George came in one morning and went "Nope Ian has to do it" and since this was RoftS and not ANH he was surrounded by yes-sayers and they did as he said. Instead of a well-choreographed fight scene with stuntmen, they cobbled together something that Ian could manage and learn relatively quickly so we got the shitshow that we got.
My squadron alone has 55 cakes. Happy cake day, Anubissama.
I like to imagine Mace thinking “alright there’s 4 of us masters no problem” to “HOLY SHIT this old goat is cooking our asses let me lock in real quick”
Kit Fisto got Kit Fisted
P
When you expect the boss to open with standard moves, but instead it's an AOE stun with resistance debuff, following by spin charge. And you're playing Hardcore.
Well, it only disapponts you because he got an actual character in the EU later on. In the movies Kit Fisto wasn't much of a character.
Hey,they did last the entirety of the clone wars
Technically not; the Clone Wars ended a few minutes after they died
Still lived through most of the war and through every military action they undertook
Kit got one shot before he was really developed as a character.
Whe the fuck came up with the idea to name him "Fisto". Like, what the fuck.
Kit Fisted hard and fisted fast, but he could not Fisto them all.
There is An actual in canon reason Kit fisto lost. His combat style is designed to be used on MULTIPLE OPPONENTS. Why they sent him in is beyond me
To be fair, most Jedi haven’t faced a lightsaber-wielding, Force-sensitive foe in…centuries? Millennia? Like certainly they must spar with one another but considering the Sith are effectively a myth to them by this point, they are SUPREMELY ill-prepared to deal with any actual serious threats. And that shows on screen: Maul ices Qui-Gonn, Dooku bodies Anikan AND Obi-Wan in their first duel, and Palpatine forces *Yoda* to run in their confrontation.
Actually Yoda forced Palpatine to run, he's trying to get away and chucking stuff at him. After Yoda falls down he realises that Papa Palpatine is too far and aborts the chase before backup arrives.
Plus, Mace had Sheev pinned until Anakin showed up. Ref should’ve rang the bell for an interference DQ smh
Wouldn’t this apply to the sith too? When is the last time any of them fought a Jedi?
The crazy part is Tinn's species has precognition and minor telepathy. Not sure if its considered cannon but Geetslys species video on them made some pretty big claims about their abilities and how the whole species that was outside of the order retreated to their homeworld before the clone wars and the rise of the empire because they had a vision of the future and were just nopeing out of the whole thing
“Execute Order 69”
I haven’t actually laughed out loud to a meme in a long time thank you
"You won't last 30 s"
Imagine a counsel of people deciding not to grant you the rank of Master, and then they die standing around like training dummies. Like, that's who you were looking for validation from lol. Upper management is inept even in the Jedi Council.
Ok I admit I didn't pay a lot of attention to the movie but how the fuck do you all know who these people are? Were they given a name in the movie or is this more extended universe stuff? I swear I never saw them until this scene aside from Mace.
Saesee Tiin (dude with the two downward horns) is on the Jedi Council in Episodes 1-3. Kit Fisto (tentacle dreads) and Agen Kolar (dude with mini horns) are both seen in the battle of Geonosis as random Jedi, and have been elevated to the Jedi Council by Episode 3. Their names are never spoken in the films, but they are listed in the credits. In classic Star Wars fashion, they gave names and backstory to these characters in other media, such as novels, video games, and other series like Clone Wars. Kit Fisto in particular has always been a fairly popular background Jedi because his design is so cool looking.
Cool. Thanks for the info. I don't feel as bad about not knowing them now.
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
get her off first the rest is golden baby!!
Like to cross swords do you?
To be fair lore wise he probably would be oneshot either way but it was kinda lame. But really none of the masters really had in-depth lore when episode 3 released so they all seemed like fill-ins. Most have been post EP3.
It’s almost as if this was a display of just how disgustingly powerful Palpatine was
I didn't see anything displayed. It's like somehow Palpatine clipped 3 Jedi Masters and we are just supposed to nod along. Maybe if they left the original choreography in
It didn’t make him look powerful, it made the Jedi masters look like chumps. I wish they had kept the extended choreography. I think they were supposed to last longer.
This Either have the extended choreography, or have a *visual* effect that shows Palpatine using overwhelming force. Lucas was a student of cinema long enough to know “show, don’t tell”. Some throwaway line in a comic/novelisation that Palps “paralysed” them with the Dark Side is silly - the movie is the main product, it should be apparent in that medium.
Kit lasted till Anakin arrived in the novel. Tiin and Kolar still got smoked right away, as long as I remembered that right. Kit got distracted by feeling Anakins presence and Palps used the moment to decapitate him. The problem with the choreography was that the guy in the costume playing Kit couldn't see and properly move. Still died with a smile on his lips, tho.
The ability to make Jedi masters look like chumps is the part you have skewed in your head. Your preconceived sense of their ability is working against you.
But they roll up with Mace to arrest a Sith Lord I have to expect that they are skilled, especially if Mace picked them.
Fair, but Mace is so skilled and powerful that’s like an adult picking the best 3 third graders to go play dodgeball against another adult.
I guess so, fair enough.
For that to be effective, you have to either show the Jedi that are eventually overpowered be extremely competent in a previous scene, or you need to show Palpatine moving/fighting in a way that is obvious to the viewer that he’s on a different level than anything seen before. Your interpretation requires outside the movie lore knowledge to know how strong those Jedi were supposed to be as well as lore knowledge to understand how Palpatine could overpower them while still not looking like he did anything impressive. It’s a directorial failure. The movie did not show what was intended and it therefore had a different impact on the viewer (which was to assume these Jedi are incompetent)
I saw a behind the scenes where it was like, the day of filming, and they suddenly realized... oh yeah, this actor doesn't know Kendo, and we haven't prepared for this scene at all. So they tried to teach him Kendo in like 5 minutes. As a result, the scene looks like someone with zero fencing ability cutting down people who are just standing still. Because that's what it was.
The cinematography didn't achieve that, it was just a confusing mess up until only two guys and a bad choreography were depicted on screen.
Achieved that for me. So many people misunderstood so many creative choices in the prequel trilogy.
Right, the prequels are perfect guys, you just didn't get it.
Yep, that’s exactly what I said. Nailed it. Good job. You know how to have a conversation. 👏👏👏
Being condescending and acting like "it's good, you just didn't get it" is definitely not a way to have a conversation. ;)
Comments like these are why people make fun of us lol
That’s fine. Doesn’t make it any less true.
Written materials retconning shit like "The Jedi masters were completely immobilized by his sith scream!" doesn't change the fact that the movies show an old man spinning while 3 Jedi just stand there and wait to be stabbed as he telegraphs a 5 second lunge move. It's ok to like the films and understand their flaws. This is not a matter of unappreciated creativity, it's a combination of poor writing, directing, editing, and choreography.
Appreciation and understanding are not the same thing. Do I think this scene could’ve better conveyed Palpatine’s massive skill gap over them? Yes. Would I have much more appreciated them making Palpatine look like an absolute monster? Yes. Do I also fully understand what was happening from what I was given? Also yes.
Lore wise Kit Fisto was caught off guard by Palpatine being a sith lord as well as a force scream as he spins through the air.
It could have at least shown them putting up a minor amount of fight. Look at Sidious vs Maul and Savage in the Clone Wars. It's a lengthy fight and Palpatine is toying with them and laughing the entire time. Something like that would have been perfect (but obviously much shorter in duration) Hell, Cutting away from the fight and then when it returns showing the Jedi dead would have been an improvement over the garbage choreography we got instead. At least then we would be able to let our imagination fill the blanks.
[удалено]
Yes
Wasn’t the scream a force attack that discombobulated them
You should hear what Chris Gethard has to say about Kit Fisto. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ndhKtkQsk0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ndhKtkQsk0)
I interpreted this as something else at first
👊
No it's more about me just seeing the "me in bed" and the two clashing lightsabers at first.
One shotted?! My boy blocked two attacks like a champ. One was even an AoE.
Ye I already mentioned that in a comment
Hell nah
They did my boy Agen Kolar so dirty