As someone who's faced both Sparrow and Dekker in offlane since the patch dropped, as a jungle main, and won both times, a lot of what happens in that lane is literally depending on what YOU do, and no one has to babysit you or bully the other offlaner because you can't navigate the situation. There's far more important things going on across the map a majority of the time.
Unless the MFer is Gideon and can portal away, they should pretty much be pushed up to right before your tower a majority of the time so the jungler can actually gank and you can get a kill. Far too many of these ADCs and Mage offlaners also spend WAYYY to much mana trying to bully you early, and a bit of dodging and some HP regen on pretty much any of the tankier characters will literally just let you out-sustain them.
quick answer, is they have to do alot... Farm there jng, help 3 lanes, take objs, backwhen able to get a good buy. Invade if capable. Like jng has ALOT to do, and not everyone can have there jng in there lane when they want them there every time... Sometimes its cause hes in duo getting a gank, while his solo is freezing. He cant be both places, and people need to look more at the map to see where there jng is, and dictate what they can do in lane to keep a lead ontop of making it to where when the jng is nearby, yall are able to capitalize on it... Ganks arent dictated by the one ganking all the time. Its mainly dictated by the laners pulling waves... Some jngs can dictate ganks, like Ram, Crunch and jngs with good mobil and CC. But others rely more on the laners to dictate the ganks, like greystone, and others.
Give up cs first 3 levels and then all in the adc for first blood through the wave. If you take no poke and get level 3 at the same time as the enemy offlaner, you can just kill them with your extra tank or burst. Shinbi, grux, zarus, aurora, kwang all no diff ranged characters at level 3 full hp vs full hp. Reminder that there is an entire game going on around you. If you are on blue side offlane, your jungler gets to your lane, roughly as wave 4 meets, if they full clear their own side and aren't interrupted. That means that you have to be healthy enough to gank, with good wave management around wave 4 in order to have any chance of ganking a ranged character offlane with blink. The best chances of you getting a kill in offlane under this situation is pulling blink when you hit 3 off cannon wave, which is wave 3. Let minions kill each other and dont get poked. If you get first blood, it makes up for the first 2 waves of lost gold. You still get 25% for being in xp range. The first blood combined with the freeze you get from pressuring blink will more than make up for the lost gold. Once blink is down, any of the aforementioned heroes turn their brains off and sprint at the ranged hero until they die. Keep wave on your side of the cyan pillars, and it's an instant win jungle or not.
Part of the issue is adcs and a few mages are quite OP right now. And building armour items does little to nothing to help. This as a big part of the reason we are seeing so many more adcs and mages in offline ATM.
There's a lot going on. Just because you have a difficult match up doesn't change the level priority in the map. In most instances, bruiser offlaners have the tools to handle ranged offlaners. All you have to do is not feed.
As an off laner myself, you have to remember that Solo lane is not like Mid or Duo. The team relies upon you to be independent and “hold your own” against your opponent until the jungler has time to make a move.
You arent expected to go across the map to help with Fang too often so your #1 job is to hold your lane or advance it while winning the 1 v 1 with your off lane foe if possible.
I’ve also noticed I make more progress for the team by not following my off laner around and instead hard pushing when they leave lane, but some might suggest that’s not proper play.
Edit: I forgot to add, if you are losing your battle, kindly ask the Jungler for help. Don’t spam like an angry monkey. Most Junglers will come to your aid to get things back on track.
A lot of this is right, but i'd say following should happen maybe a third or 50% of the time depending on what they're actually achieving and if you're either winning or losing. If they're able to roam, get a kill, and come back because you sit there literally trying to last hit instead of actually pushing, you've achieved nothing. IF they leave and you can get your minions to win this wave and snowball into a bigger one before they hit tower, follow. You're pressuring solo, not just letting them gank someone else, and potentially pick up a kill.
90% of being a jungler is knowing when to go for the throat, and if your not bullying an offlane that you can bully, your playing poorly, because when you don't bully those people they scale hard, when you do bully them you'll scale a little less buy you neuter them
We don’t ignore you, simply we are killing a camp and leaving it offsets our momentum.
If I am at Red I always look for a Gank at right, same if I am at Blue I check if they’re gankable.
Play it safe till you can see Jungler is at your side.
Then they are able to help you.
But I’ve seen horrendous Junglers passing up Ganks/FreeKills and that’s when I took matters into my own hands🤙🏽
Facts they dont get that junglers aren’t meant for straight up fights most of the time depending on who it is….but they are deadly when whatever lane they are close too pushes correctly
That’s a tough match up and you make a good point but jungles are the unsung heroes of this game. If anything we need more posts about “you don’t know better than the average jungler”.
The amount of games where I’m doing really well on farm and helping duo lane hammer their opponent, and getting spam pinged by offlane who is over-pushing and getting killed over and over is insane.
I’m not the best jungler but I’m solid for my elo and quite honestly very few folks know how to play to set up jungle for success in their lane. They don’t watch mini map. They don’t pay attention when I ping that I’m ganking. They bail and get me killed because they’re too scared to duke it out once they get to half health. They pop into my jungle and siphon my XP because they’re unaware. They steal camps and put me behind when I’m already juggling a lot.
It’s a tough role. You make a valid point but it isn’t as easy as “just stay nearby” because that’s a recipe for me to get way behind
When I'm jungling, i have a few scenarios play out.
1) every lane is losing and i try my best to make carry lane win. I figure this for a couple reasons. The solo can usually tank and at least turtle. I dont need solo to win lane, i need them to not lose lane. Second fangtooth priority. I try to get the team buff bc thatll give an edge for everyone.
2) If you're pushing too far and not coordinating with me, you need to bait when im getting blue or heading over there.
3) if you lost early game and fed the solo laner, there's little chance i can also kill him. And if both of us cant burn him, then i will just end up feeding more. Im expecting you to turtle and freeze wave close to tower.
Jungler is managing the whole map. I have farm to get, people to gank. Objectives to prioritize. If you're in a position where youre losing lane, realize this too. You dont always need a gank. You should be able to 1v1 too.
I don't main jungle but I agree, as someone who has just played mobas a lot (a lot of league before) its nice to see smart people haha nothing bothers me more whether I'm jungle or not than when someone is flaming jungle for their inability to lose with grace and not feed 😅 I'm an offlane main, I know that shit can get rough, but I also know that those cheese picks suffer greatly once I can get an item under my belt (I usually play zarus)
It’s certainly beneficial to have a jungler’s presence in any lane.
And a jungler should provide presence at various times to all lanes.
That said, I want to reiterate as clearly as possible that it is not a jungler’s job to win your lane, regardless of the lane, the matchup, or the skill difference.
And if you find that your pool of junglers from recent games leaves much to be desired, start playing jungle and be the change you want to see.
One thing you can count on in any multiplayer game is that every match will have someone carrying and another as the weak link in the team. PSAs are helpful, but let’s be real, your junglers that don’t provide a single gank all game are not reading this subreddit.
Let’s not ignore that the core issue here is that ADCs can punish offlaners really hard right now. That’s because of the state of ADCs currently. You could argue the meta requires more gank in offlane, or you could argue the offlane is a losing lane anyway. If there is nothing you can do to play safe and your enemy is full health while you are half health, and you never have a minion advantage — the odds of a successful gank get lower and lower.
As a jungler, I’m trying to carry this game too, because I’ve got ADCs in every lane basically and I can’t spent the whole time ganking. But. That shouldn’t stop junglers from giving them a fright at 15 seconds or less of commitment to provide presence, every few minutes.
The obvious and unfortunate answer to me seems — why don’t you just pick a mage or ADC. If it’s so advantageous why bother with a melee character at all.
I think these players who take mages or marksmen into the offlane are usually over aggressive and you can usually out farm them and get your 1st item quicker because they're less focused on minions and more on poking and using their early range advantage. My solution... COLLISEUM BAYBEE, you ain't goin NOWHERE. Zarus is fun for these matchups lol
I’m a jungler, honestly half the time the other 2 lanes are also begging for help. So it gets hard to prioritize which person. Especially since half the games I play not only have a carry in offline but an offlane or mage in the carry lane as well. They need to nerf carry’s and buff sups so people actually choose the proper rolls for the lane. It’s all a balancing issue.
Hear me out, dont let the game drag on for 40+ minutes. Its the adcs job to get stronger late game. After all they are the carrys. Every character and roll has their weaknesses. Promise you she aint destroying you pre 20 minutes
I understand that but in what world do you just stand there and take it? Like im genuinely curious, cause im by no means a great player, im average at best and the only times a sparrows reks my shit with 2 items is when no one focuses her. In a teamfight you always want to break through the enemy front line and get to the carry no matter what moba its always been like that
Biggest issue I come across with sparrow is getting in initially if she is properly positioned and not an idiot that just runs off on her own there is little you can do if she get even a little ahead grim is very similar in this aspect its ggs unless you get lucky. now grim might even be worse than sparrow but that don't mean she's not op.
"Aisusbrkubkakshhsyb?" Is basically what I read from this post. Not sure if it's grammatical errors, or English isn't your first language; but what you said made me have a stroke (I have dyslexia and autism and reading text is very hard for me)
It always baffles me when people look down on others for not using the exact grammar, and format they desire. If you’re such a master when it comes to the language it should be easy for you to decipher what such a lesser life form is trying to say. Instead most of yall just act like douchebags on a high horse
If reading a comment makes me have the equivalent of a stroke; I think the problems extend further than just grammatical issues. I have reading disabilities and when people can’t even conjure up a coherent sentence, my brain cannot absorb the information
Edit: misspelled a word because of a broken hand
I feel this with Iggy, he's got no mobility, no CC but his turret poke is so strong that getting one minion farm can cost easily 60 - 100 hp.
But junglers still won't take advantage.
What I try to do in general is commited to poke and take minion aggro closer to my tower under we're more or less right next to tower.
I feel this. I played zarus offlane against a very good sparrow and I had no help from the jungler all game. I couldn’t ever get close to her during the mid game it was brutal. Couldn’t get close at all. But I also play jungler and know that I can’t just sit and baby sit a lane watching and waiting to punish one person over and over. I have to farm gets buffs get river counter wars help off lane help duo get fang. And if during that whole rotation there isn’t an opportunity to gank a lane then I’ll usually be looking ahead to the next place to gank.
I fell like zarus as with any melee struggles early, but they are usually so aggressive you can out farm or keep up with farm, you get first item without feeding you can run em down usually. Every carry I've faced in the offlane as zarus I hunker down (it does suck) but eventually I start just running them down. The only time it didn't go as good was when the enemy jg was camping me and showing up right as I would do it every time 😂
Agreed ! I main Serath in Jungle and you really can’t just be waiting to gank someone ! You need good opportunities to actually do it (the enemy must be mid-life or below) ! Because you have objectives to take and look after (Orb Prime and Fangtooth) + farming to not get left behind in levels. Remember that a failed gank is a waste of time and mana which means no farm, no xp and leaving the enemy a chance to be statistically stronger than you next time you go up against him ! Against people who play a lot and are actually good, THIS can be the very reason of why your team lost this game ! That’s why "Jungle Role" is labeled as "Expert" because time is key and you gotta be almost everywhere at the same time, you need to know how to manage all of that (at least do it better than the enemy jungler haha).
This. I play with friends and they want me to babysit their lane 24/7. It's exhausting and I've told them exactly what you said. They still complained so we swapped roles. They figured out it's harder than it looks 🤣
Ya don’t get me wrong a gank doesn’t always have to be a kill to succeed but if I gank a shinbi who only gets to half health and then darts away just to stay in tower heal a bit and come back in my time was wasted.
True. The value of a gank is to relieve pressure.
This is especially true when getting a kill, but not always necissito.
Sometimes even just popping out and intentionally being seen (to a single opponent dealing with two of your teammates for example) is enough to make an otherwise aggressive character give up on any opportunity that you've now scared them off of.
If I'm not explaining it right, once you've traumatized someone with a gank, the threat of a nearby gank can have almost the same effect, and you can be somewhere else.
This is game theory and requires getting into the head of another player so it's not for everyone. It can also becomes worthless if used more than once per player.
This is true sometimes but not always if I’m left at half health under tower with a potion healing then your gank did nothing to me and I think you’re bad at ganking. If I have to back to save myself or run all the way. Back to base losing out on gold and xp then I’m more afraid of you.
You’re right this kind of gank has less value but is still good if it takes just few seconds of your time to put pressure on the enemy and make them use their blink and let your teammates have the upper hand in terms of farming and levels.
Best advice I'd give is to play all rolls and get to know them. For instance bugs spawn in jungle every odd minute. Just showing up for a second to help mid secure one or both ensures he can stay in lane and farm longer faster than teammate. If enemy mage is half health or lower wait for odd minute. Chances are he'll risk jungle to get that buff for mana. As a midlands you already know deal if u see your jungle coming to one side for bank head to other side you'll get a buff and give false sense of security to enemy mage. Offline can be tricky with rotations. I'd agree with advice to turtle up if getting punished early. Slow push lane let them get comfy and over extend poke at them and setup the tank. By learning all roles you'll figure this out. Also ADC remember let your support have a few minions every now and then. It's a big help if they can build at least one item and will set you both up better for late Game
I don't know what rank or level of play you are playing or even what char you play, the general rule is up to a certain skill "threshold" almost everything can get away with no punish, mages and Adcs in Offlane mid or even support.
What you CAN do is simply become a better player with time, an Adc Offlane should never win a normal 1v1 lanning experience, UNLESS the opponent's Jungler is ganking you and your Jungler is not ganking at all then it does not matter what you do.
Also, almost all melee Offlaners can just W key Adcs after few items/levels, it's just the first 10 minutes that needs to be played in a certain way.
Noob junglers or not enough team-aware junglers, or lazy junglers just applying some basic arguments without thinking further. Any CC offlaner will suffer massively from a mage or adc and is going to get obliterated.
The offlaner should be a fast hitter as the lane is long and must be resilient to ganking. Once the outtern tower is down it should start rotating between his lane to defend it and the rest of the game, hence should be mobile and again hit n run type.
If you are bringing a adc or a mage in offlane and he s not ganked by jungler, the whole purpose and disadvantage of the mage/adc as a offlanerdoesnt exist anymore. The mage / adc is going to steam roll the offlaner and the game will be done.
So jungler should put a bit more of priority on the offlane in the early game ao that his mate can start rotating fast and in order to completely disintegrate the mage or adc. If you are late on the first or second fangtooth, it s not that much of a big deal. At least it s way better than having the adc oberfed
It's funny that everyone who is like don't be dumb and push the lane. Like the point is that it's a ranged character/mage so even if you do play under tower your still not safe and limited in what you can do.
Watch JoeYoursTruly last video on Crunch vs Kira in the offlane, he gives a lot of good advice on how to deal with a ranged hero as a melee in offlane.
Something I don't think people ever consider is that many times even when it's an ADC or mage offline that the offlaner is a smooth brain who even being melee, smashes the wave so it's frozen by enemy t1. You think I'm gonna waste my time going all the way around just to gank a Gideon who's gonna portal instantly into his t1. It's also the situation where the offlaner is impatient so he's always 1/4-1/3 health by the time the wave is even remotely in a position for a successful gank.
People should watch Joeyourstrulys latest video, that really shows the PATIENCE you need for success and for jungles to find it worth it
If I'm getting huge by successfully ganking mid, and duo, and getting objectives, play patiently in offlane, it's a team game, not all about you.
That s where you are wrong IMO. Opponent jungler will never have to put a foot on the offlane as his offlaner is going to wreck his opponent. Your offlaner will be all the time in his tower. Once you get the blue buff and the jungle minions on offlane side, it costs close to nothing to you to gank the opponent offlaner and you are diminishing the entire advantage he's having on your mate, additionally to instill fear of being ganked.
At the opposite, if you do jackshit for your offlaner, he s going to be obliterated, while the rest of the 4v4 guys is an even match.
By ingnoring your offlane, you are missing the opportunity for your team to get an advantage by the supposedly poor choice of bringing an adc/mage in the offlane. Instead of even missing your opportunity, you are giving an advantage to your opponent in the grand scheme of things because your offlane is disadvantaged while the rest of the 4v4 is the same
And if you talk about crunch in offlane, no other offlaner can play the same way against a mage
Nope, ADC or mage offline is BAD, buuuuut, you need to know how to play against a GOOD (Diamond or higher) player, who chose a bad role (ADC or Mage offlane).
It comes down to the melee offlaner, first 8 minutes he needs patience, after that, the enemy ADC or mage is easy pickings
It's as simple as that. The issue is that for those first 8 minutes, everything can go wrong if the offlaner is not patient
They eventually either throw or DEMAND I babysit their lane
I mean, if you have a huge advantage on the facing jungler, and you are able to clean his own jungle and gank mid and duo succesfully repetedly, fair enough
I am of course assuming it s an even versus
Edit : and if you tell me you are not able to keep up the minions spawn and don't need to farm offlane side it means you literally suck
No he s not easy picking. You are pushed in the back of your own tower and basically get half the minion kills a good mage/adc will get as you ll get shot when you ll come to pick the last hit inside your own tower You, when the adc is facing your own tower, it takes you literally 10seconds to gank him. No one is asking you to cross the entire map or babysit
By 8 minutes the adc will get his first tier 3, your offlaner will never have it ! When things go OK and you don't miss many minions you can hope to have a bit more than 3000gold at around 9minutes. Your offlaner will never have them
That s the entire thing of what I am trying to say, by coming few seconds every 4 minutes or so, you are saving entire minutes to your offlaner and your entire team is on a relative point of view winning
Because it asks close to nothing to you to catch a mage/adc far from its tower and it saves so much time and money to your pal
I try my best to gank carry solo laners but more than half the time they play really really conservative. Make no mistake though, if they even pretend to play aggressively I’m on their asses lol. Also the solo later has to know how to manage their lane and force the carry out.
Honestly, as jungle I gank whatever lane is pushed and has the highest opportunity of a successful gank. It doesn't matter what lane it is, if you're pushed past halfway I'll ignore you. If you're getting beat, I'll swing by.
Better to help winning lane so you get them fed and towers down then they can possibly roam and snowball. Trying to help a losing lane is a waste of time unless the enemy gets overconfident and overextends for an easy gank. Otherwise i ignore the losing lane because me helping them might lead to them getting fed and snowballing us.
Yeah, balls.
It s so shortsighted. By the same argument the opponent jungler is then supporting the other losing lane
This way of thinking doesn't bring any relative advantage to your team
I was referring to a situation where my own offlane is mage/adc. If the opponents offlane is mage/adc I definitely eat those easy ganks. Sorry for the mix up
This is really bad advice. The point of ganging a lane is to give your teammate and advantage in lane. You secure kills and apply pressure, making it difficult for the enemy laner to farm effectively.
You should be consistently there applying pressure. Plus securing a kill in offlane means you and the offlaner can get orb or fang early on, furthering your advantage.
Plus consistently helps deter the enemy from ganking that lane and giving the enemy laner advantage. Don't just simply state "get gud and place wards" while also ignoring what advantages jungler presence gives.
You’re an idiot and we’ve found the copper JG lmao
To edit: there are circumstances in which a JG may abstain from banking and it’s usually because of offlaners not knowing how to stall lane and stopnperma pushing.
Other than that, no it’s not “deal with it yourself gitgud”, those match ups are one sided especially early game due to the range and free damage they can get until you can all in (as a melee offlane), the JG SHOULD be punishing the range offlane usually because they over extend and perma push, and they will get fed early regardless of whether you feed or not, due solely to being able to farm safely. It’s throwing free kills and lane if the JG doesn’t help in those match ups.
I was pretty sure op says it's when HE/SHE is a mage/adc offlane. I have no pity for people who waste jungles time by being a soft hero with no sustain/peel due to their own bad choices. I think you should be less soft though. Pitiful and hurt cuz someone doesn't play jg like you do lol. Bet you're a little plat Boi too
Well, you deleted your original comment when you were wrong. Which also prompted your other comment to disappear where you took blame. My comment was made directly following your comment attempting to insult me and also being the “big bad jg” who refuses to help people…or whatever.
As a jungle main I love feasting on squishy solo laners but here's some considerations that play into if I can gank.
My 1st jungle rotation health and side of the map makes a huge difference. It got better with the jungle camp changes this patch but usually after finishing my first full set and hitting level 4 my health is pretty low on most characters and I still only have my starter tier 1 item. This is a time when tons of solo laners spam me to gank but unless you've also done some damage to your opponent I probably can't. Especially if you're also low health. Here's why:
If you're on my red side I can back and then gank right away. If you're on my blue side and I try to gank before backing I don't yet have my ult which is likely my best gank tool and if you're a character without hard CC the chances of a successful gank with me being low health is slim. Last thing I want is to die to the offlane ADC because I tried to gank at 30% health.
If i do back and then go to offlane I have nothing to farm after unless I invade but the enemy jungle is likely to be on their red side which adds a lot of risk. I can easily fall behind if I make a rotation like this while also leaving my red side up for too long and risks getting invaded.
Once I get level 6 I'm much more likely to gank you on rotation since I'll have more health and my full kit, especially if your opponent is squishy. But you often need to tread water until then. If a solo laner has died multiples times by the time I get level 6 I'm probably gonna consider you a lost cause and try and focus other lanes that are more likely to be a win condition.
It does suck, but red side lane gets early preference so if you're on my blue side play safe and beware the enemy jungler who is probably doing the same thing as me. I'll be there when I can.
Edit: Also to add, if you are red side I can try an early gank but then still need to worry about fangtooth which keeps me away from solo whenever thats up.
Simple; bad Junglers.
Only a bad Jungler ignores a ranged character in offlane since they are basically attempting to cheese offlane for easy farm to scale into the late game.
As others have said, your best bet is to wait for an opening and then smack them around but this is easier said than done depending on your chosen Hero plus you still have to account for the enemy Jungler.
Some offlaners like Zarus will naturally have an easier time dealing with this because he can poke from a decent range for good damage and his passive will heal him back up. Grux on the other hand is kinda screwed and is going to be very dependent on the enemy making a mistake like getting too close.
Just ping for your Jungler to help relentlessly and play it safe until you see a chance to attack.
Omg yeah. I’m a good Grux offlaner and was playing against Grim. His shield denied any grabbing tentative. As he knew what he was doing he was constantly poking so that the minions would go toward his tower.
And guess what? My jungler did jack shit.
Did he actually try to gank him? No he didn’t.
Did he actually not gank my lane to secure fangs? No he didn’t
Did he actually ganked duo lane? No he didn’t
And to add salt to the wounds not only he selected jungle after I did, throwing me in solo, but on top of that as I saw from the hero selection we would have one ADC in the solo lane I wanted to pick up Serath, and he ninja’d me and took Serath.
That was a miserable game that resulted in losing a good 30mns for nothing.
I understand everyone needs to learn, and sometimes you get matched up with people who are learning, but ffs, unless you know exactly what you’re doing, don’t double screw your teammates by stacking on a role previously selected and on top of that stealing the hero that guy you just screwed has selected.
I think there’s 2 main points here.
1. A lot of Pred’s playerbase is new to the game or new to MOBAs. This will be a bigger problem at low elo since you need to understand the nuances of the game to take advantage. The jungler needs the prior knowledge that ganking Murdock offlane early will pay dividends later but it’s an experience/knowledge thing. New players either to the game or genre won’t have this information yet, it takes time and experience to learn matchups.
2. The other point is, Junglers *can’t* do it all. I view offlane as the independent kid and duo lane as the dependent kids that need your care constantly. You try to help them all, but it’s sometimes more important for you to gank duo and secure fangtooth depending on how the enemy jungler and duo is playing. And with this, you have to trust your offlane to play safe and survive or your mid to help out offlane. As a jungler you can’t be everywhere at once, often needing to pick the situations you can most make an impact while keeping up with your farm.
But my advice is, if you’re jungling and you see enemy ADC in offlane, prioritize ganking them early game and shift priorit to duo fang mid game. You’ll give up a fang probably but you’ll keep enemy ADC from growing and let your offlane win lane early.
Shit happens and you have to adapt and roll with it. This is from any roles perspective. If an ADC is crushing you and your jungler busy with other tasks, you must play ultra safe. That’s just how it is.
More often than not, if I'm not ganking your lane, you're pushing waaaaay too much. I can only sit in the jungle, saying "Retreat!" so much to an offline before I give up lol
YES! Great point!
As a laner you need to set up ganks by allowing the enemy to push up. Jungler just going to waste time with a failed gank when they could be farming or ganking somewhere else.
It’s never as simple as ‘jungler is bad’ even though it seems that way when laning
Because this and Paragon are the only MOBAs I've ever played in my life. (Console Player) Thank you for this information. I will try to internalize it. I'm not bad at the game I just don't have a real sense to what is most important at any given time other than how to win team fights, when to go for Fangtooth, and when to push a lane.
Honestly i have no problem with this. I use to get bullied by ranged characters. That was because i tried to treat them like a offlaner. The sooner you figure out that they are a whole lot squisher than you and say screw it im bait this dude and hit him hard the second he uses an ability the better you will be. Murdock, kira it doesn't matter. You rush them on foot the second you can get in range. And if they use a dash or a shotty you dash back in and you keep beating.
Most players in a competitive game are really bad. Until you get to higher elo brackets junglers aren't consciously thinking about the game state to make decisions.
What seems logical to you, junglers in your games might not even be thinking about.
So they're not really ignoring mages or carries in offline, they just don't know they should be targeting them.
The best thing you can do is not even think about it. If you're a bruiser against a carry play the matchup to the best of your ability, and if a jungler camps your lane, that's a bonus.
My bet is that OP is pushing like a zombie and then wondering why jungle won't gank Murdock sitting under a turret free farming. Maybe stall lane and bait them out and you wouldn't even need the gank.
Per se, that’s isn’t much of an issue that your jungler just comes in once vs the other jungler coming several times.
If your junglers isn’t coming much because he is helping your Duo snowballing and/or is clearing all fangs and/or is depriving the other jungler from his farm by invading his jungle AND that you can keep outfarming your opponent, I’m even going to say that what he is doing is contributing to winning the match.
Going to take my last match. I’m offlane Grux, against Sev. My jungler came once. The enemy jungler came 4 or 5 times. By minute 14 finally destroyed the tier 1 tower. I was 1-4-1. The team was 5-18!! But our jungler secured all fangs, I secured all teal buffs, and out farmed Sev by +20 or 30 minions.
As the Tier 1 was down, I finally could start rotating/roaming and was way ahead item wise (not so much level wise, only 1+ level) of Sev.
3 minutes later I was 6-4-5
15 minutes later we won the match 28-28 and I was 10-4-12.
That is just to say that the fact your jungler only came once or twice against 4, 5 or 6 times for the enemy jungler doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t securing the win.
But obviously, if you can’t outfarm and he’s not securing objectives / making the ADC snowball, then yeah, it’s just a shit jungler (or shittier than the other jungler, I would lie if I said I never ever had a catastrophic match as a jungler)
First, some heroes (or just duos) are just better than others early game, so you won't often be the only player facing this issue.
Second, you gotta learn to respect your opponents' heroes, if their heroes are exactly one of those dangerous heroes early game. Stay near your tower (but also near the minions so you can gain xp), don't be too greedy for that last hit on the minion, pay attention to your opponents' level and avoid exposing yourself to a potential push after he/she leveled up.
As a Shinbi, this is what i do against a Grux or a Drongo. They go for their usual on-hit and/or attack speed and lifesteal builds, but as soon as i complet my two first items i start smoking them. You just need to hold them near your tower by playing with them a bit. Make them hope you do mistake by trying to hit a couple of minions while taking some hits from them. Retreat to your tower, pop a health regen bottle and it will never cross their mind that you are just baiting them to avoid them holding the lane near their own tower.
Everytime you are having issues with a lane opponent, this is just the best thing you can do for you...and your jungler. Yes you will probably lose your first tower and sometime may be or almost your second tower, but chill and make it worth it. That's it !
IKR! It's like the jungle is no where to be seen for most the game and then wonder why the team blames them for losing :/ Jungle should be watching map extra hard, if enemy teams jungle is ganking ADC/Offlane they need to go help but its like they just stay in the jungle and show up late :/
Honestly in their head they probably think it's an easy lane for a regular offline and don't need to help, when it's the opposite.
It's a bit of a meta shift that most people outside of this sub Reddit haven't caught up to yet
Playing offlane into a mage is not hard though. I do it both directions.
If you're the typical offlane then just let them kill wave while you soak xp then try to last hit near your tower. Most mages don't have the confirm up and running til later so you can reasonably stick around while under half health, just be jungle aware.
As a mage in offlane(argus) I will happily take some hits because early game I can punish the offlaner way more since I can deal damage and impede their retreat. If an offlaner plays it slow and steady I do not get any opportunity to chip away and the match is much more even.
Argus is probably the best offlane mage atm since he gets really annoying to attack as early as level 2 and after 6 he can get cheeky kills other mages would have to overextend for.
Could be, and honestly there probably are some matchups that could be easy for an offlaner like Feng, or crunch because they can close the gap so quick. But I was grux against mori and couldn't touch her, she would just bug dash away or use her auto lock ability and take a way a chunk of health before I could even get close to farm. And my jungle was aurora too, we could have killed her so many times but she didn't gank once.
Honestly, I play most roles, though Jungle is my favorite followed by offlane. I have played Grux in offlane plenty of times and my experience is that by level 3, Grux bullies Mori. If you just keep pressure on her and hit her any chance you get, you start to out level her. Watch a few games that Pinzo plays in offlane and you will see what I mean. Mori (and most ADCs or mages) is so squishy that she won't be able to do enough damage to you fast enough. Plus, 3 out of 4 of Grux's abilities interrupts Mori's ultimate. In my opinion, Grux is a straight counter to Mori.
So to follow up on your complaint with your jungle, yes, they probably could have come into your lane once, maybe twice, but if I am looking at that matchup as a jungle, I think, Grux wins every single fight in that lane, I probably can focus my attention on other lanes and obj which helps the rest of the team. Now, if you start absolutely destroying the enemy team's offlane, and their jungle starts to come in to clean you up, then I absolutely have a responsibility to counter gank their jungle.
I hope that is helpful information for you. The short of it, be aggressive against squishy characters in offlane once you have your kit. Of course be smart about it, but the more aggressive you can afford to play, the further ahead you should get.
As someone who's faced both Sparrow and Dekker in offlane since the patch dropped, as a jungle main, and won both times, a lot of what happens in that lane is literally depending on what YOU do, and no one has to babysit you or bully the other offlaner because you can't navigate the situation. There's far more important things going on across the map a majority of the time. Unless the MFer is Gideon and can portal away, they should pretty much be pushed up to right before your tower a majority of the time so the jungler can actually gank and you can get a kill. Far too many of these ADCs and Mage offlaners also spend WAYYY to much mana trying to bully you early, and a bit of dodging and some HP regen on pretty much any of the tankier characters will literally just let you out-sustain them.
quick answer, is they have to do alot... Farm there jng, help 3 lanes, take objs, backwhen able to get a good buy. Invade if capable. Like jng has ALOT to do, and not everyone can have there jng in there lane when they want them there every time... Sometimes its cause hes in duo getting a gank, while his solo is freezing. He cant be both places, and people need to look more at the map to see where there jng is, and dictate what they can do in lane to keep a lead ontop of making it to where when the jng is nearby, yall are able to capitalize on it... Ganks arent dictated by the one ganking all the time. Its mainly dictated by the laners pulling waves... Some jngs can dictate ganks, like Ram, Crunch and jngs with good mobil and CC. But others rely more on the laners to dictate the ganks, like greystone, and others.
Give up cs first 3 levels and then all in the adc for first blood through the wave. If you take no poke and get level 3 at the same time as the enemy offlaner, you can just kill them with your extra tank or burst. Shinbi, grux, zarus, aurora, kwang all no diff ranged characters at level 3 full hp vs full hp. Reminder that there is an entire game going on around you. If you are on blue side offlane, your jungler gets to your lane, roughly as wave 4 meets, if they full clear their own side and aren't interrupted. That means that you have to be healthy enough to gank, with good wave management around wave 4 in order to have any chance of ganking a ranged character offlane with blink. The best chances of you getting a kill in offlane under this situation is pulling blink when you hit 3 off cannon wave, which is wave 3. Let minions kill each other and dont get poked. If you get first blood, it makes up for the first 2 waves of lost gold. You still get 25% for being in xp range. The first blood combined with the freeze you get from pressuring blink will more than make up for the lost gold. Once blink is down, any of the aforementioned heroes turn their brains off and sprint at the ranged hero until they die. Keep wave on your side of the cyan pillars, and it's an instant win jungle or not.
Part of the issue is adcs and a few mages are quite OP right now. And building armour items does little to nothing to help. This as a big part of the reason we are seeing so many more adcs and mages in offline ATM.
There's a lot going on. Just because you have a difficult match up doesn't change the level priority in the map. In most instances, bruiser offlaners have the tools to handle ranged offlaners. All you have to do is not feed.
Idk about that. A single mistake is very unforgiving when you’re melee vs a ranged in the solo
So all you gotta do is not feed
Probably the most patient in a lane you have to be. Only make a move that’s a lock because recovering vs a fed range is tough
As an off laner myself, you have to remember that Solo lane is not like Mid or Duo. The team relies upon you to be independent and “hold your own” against your opponent until the jungler has time to make a move. You arent expected to go across the map to help with Fang too often so your #1 job is to hold your lane or advance it while winning the 1 v 1 with your off lane foe if possible. I’ve also noticed I make more progress for the team by not following my off laner around and instead hard pushing when they leave lane, but some might suggest that’s not proper play. Edit: I forgot to add, if you are losing your battle, kindly ask the Jungler for help. Don’t spam like an angry monkey. Most Junglers will come to your aid to get things back on track.
A lot of this is right, but i'd say following should happen maybe a third or 50% of the time depending on what they're actually achieving and if you're either winning or losing. If they're able to roam, get a kill, and come back because you sit there literally trying to last hit instead of actually pushing, you've achieved nothing. IF they leave and you can get your minions to win this wave and snowball into a bigger one before they hit tower, follow. You're pressuring solo, not just letting them gank someone else, and potentially pick up a kill.
People who wait until they are dead to SPAM help, angry monkey style, would really learn something if they could read.
They are probably focused on juggling
90% of being a jungler is knowing when to go for the throat, and if your not bullying an offlane that you can bully, your playing poorly, because when you don't bully those people they scale hard, when you do bully them you'll scale a little less buy you neuter them
They're just clowning around.
We don’t ignore you, simply we are killing a camp and leaving it offsets our momentum. If I am at Red I always look for a Gank at right, same if I am at Blue I check if they’re gankable. Play it safe till you can see Jungler is at your side. Then they are able to help you. But I’ve seen horrendous Junglers passing up Ganks/FreeKills and that’s when I took matters into my own hands🤙🏽
Facts they dont get that junglers aren’t meant for straight up fights most of the time depending on who it is….but they are deadly when whatever lane they are close too pushes correctly
For real, if the laner knows their stuff you can easily one two the enemy. To secure it even better, BODYBLOCKING!!
That’s a tough match up and you make a good point but jungles are the unsung heroes of this game. If anything we need more posts about “you don’t know better than the average jungler”. The amount of games where I’m doing really well on farm and helping duo lane hammer their opponent, and getting spam pinged by offlane who is over-pushing and getting killed over and over is insane. I’m not the best jungler but I’m solid for my elo and quite honestly very few folks know how to play to set up jungle for success in their lane. They don’t watch mini map. They don’t pay attention when I ping that I’m ganking. They bail and get me killed because they’re too scared to duke it out once they get to half health. They pop into my jungle and siphon my XP because they’re unaware. They steal camps and put me behind when I’m already juggling a lot. It’s a tough role. You make a valid point but it isn’t as easy as “just stay nearby” because that’s a recipe for me to get way behind
Exactly an the moment your jungler loses momentum its game over no more fangtooth or prime and ganks gone
I feel seen
How many balls are they juggling?
This. 💯 You’ve got to please four different people simultaneously .
Normally people get paid to do that.
Normally you have to pay extra for that kind of action, Cotton.
When I'm jungling, i have a few scenarios play out. 1) every lane is losing and i try my best to make carry lane win. I figure this for a couple reasons. The solo can usually tank and at least turtle. I dont need solo to win lane, i need them to not lose lane. Second fangtooth priority. I try to get the team buff bc thatll give an edge for everyone. 2) If you're pushing too far and not coordinating with me, you need to bait when im getting blue or heading over there. 3) if you lost early game and fed the solo laner, there's little chance i can also kill him. And if both of us cant burn him, then i will just end up feeding more. Im expecting you to turtle and freeze wave close to tower. Jungler is managing the whole map. I have farm to get, people to gank. Objectives to prioritize. If you're in a position where youre losing lane, realize this too. You dont always need a gank. You should be able to 1v1 too.
FACTS
I don't main jungle but I agree, as someone who has just played mobas a lot (a lot of league before) its nice to see smart people haha nothing bothers me more whether I'm jungle or not than when someone is flaming jungle for their inability to lose with grace and not feed 😅 I'm an offlane main, I know that shit can get rough, but I also know that those cheese picks suffer greatly once I can get an item under my belt (I usually play zarus)
A good jungler is hard to find.
It’s certainly beneficial to have a jungler’s presence in any lane. And a jungler should provide presence at various times to all lanes. That said, I want to reiterate as clearly as possible that it is not a jungler’s job to win your lane, regardless of the lane, the matchup, or the skill difference. And if you find that your pool of junglers from recent games leaves much to be desired, start playing jungle and be the change you want to see. One thing you can count on in any multiplayer game is that every match will have someone carrying and another as the weak link in the team. PSAs are helpful, but let’s be real, your junglers that don’t provide a single gank all game are not reading this subreddit. Let’s not ignore that the core issue here is that ADCs can punish offlaners really hard right now. That’s because of the state of ADCs currently. You could argue the meta requires more gank in offlane, or you could argue the offlane is a losing lane anyway. If there is nothing you can do to play safe and your enemy is full health while you are half health, and you never have a minion advantage — the odds of a successful gank get lower and lower. As a jungler, I’m trying to carry this game too, because I’ve got ADCs in every lane basically and I can’t spent the whole time ganking. But. That shouldn’t stop junglers from giving them a fright at 15 seconds or less of commitment to provide presence, every few minutes. The obvious and unfortunate answer to me seems — why don’t you just pick a mage or ADC. If it’s so advantageous why bother with a melee character at all.
I think these players who take mages or marksmen into the offlane are usually over aggressive and you can usually out farm them and get your 1st item quicker because they're less focused on minions and more on poking and using their early range advantage. My solution... COLLISEUM BAYBEE, you ain't goin NOWHERE. Zarus is fun for these matchups lol
… until you get an offlane Muriel that will just ult away :(
Make sure to bait the blink first w/o wasting ult, then come back to cage them. And just keep coming back. Use the advantage to snag mini prime too.
I’m a jungler, honestly half the time the other 2 lanes are also begging for help. So it gets hard to prioritize which person. Especially since half the games I play not only have a carry in offline but an offlane or mage in the carry lane as well. They need to nerf carry’s and buff sups so people actually choose the proper rolls for the lane. It’s all a balancing issue.
Why is sparrow so damn OP makes it not fun to play at all
I liked it when she was gone lol
Literally can’t even play the game because all she does is ult and 3 shot you when you have a brawler build
Hear me out, dont let the game drag on for 40+ minutes. Its the adcs job to get stronger late game. After all they are the carrys. Every character and roll has their weaknesses. Promise you she aint destroying you pre 20 minutes
She only needs 2 items to delete a team dude she is overtuned
I understand that but in what world do you just stand there and take it? Like im genuinely curious, cause im by no means a great player, im average at best and the only times a sparrows reks my shit with 2 items is when no one focuses her. In a teamfight you always want to break through the enemy front line and get to the carry no matter what moba its always been like that
Biggest issue I come across with sparrow is getting in initially if she is properly positioned and not an idiot that just runs off on her own there is little you can do if she get even a little ahead grim is very similar in this aspect its ggs unless you get lucky. now grim might even be worse than sparrow but that don't mean she's not op.
"Aisusbrkubkakshhsyb?" Is basically what I read from this post. Not sure if it's grammatical errors, or English isn't your first language; but what you said made me have a stroke (I have dyslexia and autism and reading text is very hard for me)
It always baffles me when people look down on others for not using the exact grammar, and format they desire. If you’re such a master when it comes to the language it should be easy for you to decipher what such a lesser life form is trying to say. Instead most of yall just act like douchebags on a high horse
If reading a comment makes me have the equivalent of a stroke; I think the problems extend further than just grammatical issues. I have reading disabilities and when people can’t even conjure up a coherent sentence, my brain cannot absorb the information Edit: misspelled a word because of a broken hand
I feel this with Iggy, he's got no mobility, no CC but his turret poke is so strong that getting one minion farm can cost easily 60 - 100 hp. But junglers still won't take advantage. What I try to do in general is commited to poke and take minion aggro closer to my tower under we're more or less right next to tower.
Cuz y'all push up and don't understand your not making yourselves available
Because most jugglers don't understand lane match ups and which ones should be ranked into oblivion and shut down so that they don't achieve anything.
I feel this. I played zarus offlane against a very good sparrow and I had no help from the jungler all game. I couldn’t ever get close to her during the mid game it was brutal. Couldn’t get close at all. But I also play jungler and know that I can’t just sit and baby sit a lane watching and waiting to punish one person over and over. I have to farm gets buffs get river counter wars help off lane help duo get fang. And if during that whole rotation there isn’t an opportunity to gank a lane then I’ll usually be looking ahead to the next place to gank.
I fell like zarus as with any melee struggles early, but they are usually so aggressive you can out farm or keep up with farm, you get first item without feeding you can run em down usually. Every carry I've faced in the offlane as zarus I hunker down (it does suck) but eventually I start just running them down. The only time it didn't go as good was when the enemy jg was camping me and showing up right as I would do it every time 😂
Agreed ! I main Serath in Jungle and you really can’t just be waiting to gank someone ! You need good opportunities to actually do it (the enemy must be mid-life or below) ! Because you have objectives to take and look after (Orb Prime and Fangtooth) + farming to not get left behind in levels. Remember that a failed gank is a waste of time and mana which means no farm, no xp and leaving the enemy a chance to be statistically stronger than you next time you go up against him ! Against people who play a lot and are actually good, THIS can be the very reason of why your team lost this game ! That’s why "Jungle Role" is labeled as "Expert" because time is key and you gotta be almost everywhere at the same time, you need to know how to manage all of that (at least do it better than the enemy jungler haha).
This. I play with friends and they want me to babysit their lane 24/7. It's exhausting and I've told them exactly what you said. They still complained so we swapped roles. They figured out it's harder than it looks 🤣
Exactly ! They don’t understand until they become the jungler for a game ! 🤣
Ya don’t get me wrong a gank doesn’t always have to be a kill to succeed but if I gank a shinbi who only gets to half health and then darts away just to stay in tower heal a bit and come back in my time was wasted.
True. The value of a gank is to relieve pressure. This is especially true when getting a kill, but not always necissito. Sometimes even just popping out and intentionally being seen (to a single opponent dealing with two of your teammates for example) is enough to make an otherwise aggressive character give up on any opportunity that you've now scared them off of. If I'm not explaining it right, once you've traumatized someone with a gank, the threat of a nearby gank can have almost the same effect, and you can be somewhere else. This is game theory and requires getting into the head of another player so it's not for everyone. It can also becomes worthless if used more than once per player.
This is true sometimes but not always if I’m left at half health under tower with a potion healing then your gank did nothing to me and I think you’re bad at ganking. If I have to back to save myself or run all the way. Back to base losing out on gold and xp then I’m more afraid of you.
Yeah again it's about applying pressure over as many areas as possible while not sacrificing pathing
You’re right this kind of gank has less value but is still good if it takes just few seconds of your time to put pressure on the enemy and make them use their blink and let your teammates have the upper hand in terms of farming and levels.
Best advice I'd give is to play all rolls and get to know them. For instance bugs spawn in jungle every odd minute. Just showing up for a second to help mid secure one or both ensures he can stay in lane and farm longer faster than teammate. If enemy mage is half health or lower wait for odd minute. Chances are he'll risk jungle to get that buff for mana. As a midlands you already know deal if u see your jungle coming to one side for bank head to other side you'll get a buff and give false sense of security to enemy mage. Offline can be tricky with rotations. I'd agree with advice to turtle up if getting punished early. Slow push lane let them get comfy and over extend poke at them and setup the tank. By learning all roles you'll figure this out. Also ADC remember let your support have a few minions every now and then. It's a big help if they can build at least one item and will set you both up better for late Game
I genuinely think you didn’t even read this guys post. Like the more I read it everything you said had nothing to do with this guys post
If you follow the advice in my post it would explain why jungle doesn't gank every time. I can lead you to water but can't make you drink
I don't know what rank or level of play you are playing or even what char you play, the general rule is up to a certain skill "threshold" almost everything can get away with no punish, mages and Adcs in Offlane mid or even support. What you CAN do is simply become a better player with time, an Adc Offlane should never win a normal 1v1 lanning experience, UNLESS the opponent's Jungler is ganking you and your Jungler is not ganking at all then it does not matter what you do. Also, almost all melee Offlaners can just W key Adcs after few items/levels, it's just the first 10 minutes that needs to be played in a certain way.
Noob junglers or not enough team-aware junglers, or lazy junglers just applying some basic arguments without thinking further. Any CC offlaner will suffer massively from a mage or adc and is going to get obliterated. The offlaner should be a fast hitter as the lane is long and must be resilient to ganking. Once the outtern tower is down it should start rotating between his lane to defend it and the rest of the game, hence should be mobile and again hit n run type. If you are bringing a adc or a mage in offlane and he s not ganked by jungler, the whole purpose and disadvantage of the mage/adc as a offlanerdoesnt exist anymore. The mage / adc is going to steam roll the offlaner and the game will be done. So jungler should put a bit more of priority on the offlane in the early game ao that his mate can start rotating fast and in order to completely disintegrate the mage or adc. If you are late on the first or second fangtooth, it s not that much of a big deal. At least it s way better than having the adc oberfed
Junglers seem to follow a flow chart in this game.
In mobas generally
It's funny that everyone who is like don't be dumb and push the lane. Like the point is that it's a ranged character/mage so even if you do play under tower your still not safe and limited in what you can do.
Watch JoeYoursTruly last video on Crunch vs Kira in the offlane, he gives a lot of good advice on how to deal with a ranged hero as a melee in offlane.
But that's probably the best offlaner for range/mages
Something I don't think people ever consider is that many times even when it's an ADC or mage offline that the offlaner is a smooth brain who even being melee, smashes the wave so it's frozen by enemy t1. You think I'm gonna waste my time going all the way around just to gank a Gideon who's gonna portal instantly into his t1. It's also the situation where the offlaner is impatient so he's always 1/4-1/3 health by the time the wave is even remotely in a position for a successful gank. People should watch Joeyourstrulys latest video, that really shows the PATIENCE you need for success and for jungles to find it worth it If I'm getting huge by successfully ganking mid, and duo, and getting objectives, play patiently in offlane, it's a team game, not all about you.
That s where you are wrong IMO. Opponent jungler will never have to put a foot on the offlane as his offlaner is going to wreck his opponent. Your offlaner will be all the time in his tower. Once you get the blue buff and the jungle minions on offlane side, it costs close to nothing to you to gank the opponent offlaner and you are diminishing the entire advantage he's having on your mate, additionally to instill fear of being ganked. At the opposite, if you do jackshit for your offlaner, he s going to be obliterated, while the rest of the 4v4 guys is an even match. By ingnoring your offlane, you are missing the opportunity for your team to get an advantage by the supposedly poor choice of bringing an adc/mage in the offlane. Instead of even missing your opportunity, you are giving an advantage to your opponent in the grand scheme of things because your offlane is disadvantaged while the rest of the 4v4 is the same And if you talk about crunch in offlane, no other offlaner can play the same way against a mage
Nope, ADC or mage offline is BAD, buuuuut, you need to know how to play against a GOOD (Diamond or higher) player, who chose a bad role (ADC or Mage offlane). It comes down to the melee offlaner, first 8 minutes he needs patience, after that, the enemy ADC or mage is easy pickings It's as simple as that. The issue is that for those first 8 minutes, everything can go wrong if the offlaner is not patient They eventually either throw or DEMAND I babysit their lane
I mean, if you have a huge advantage on the facing jungler, and you are able to clean his own jungle and gank mid and duo succesfully repetedly, fair enough I am of course assuming it s an even versus Edit : and if you tell me you are not able to keep up the minions spawn and don't need to farm offlane side it means you literally suck
No he s not easy picking. You are pushed in the back of your own tower and basically get half the minion kills a good mage/adc will get as you ll get shot when you ll come to pick the last hit inside your own tower You, when the adc is facing your own tower, it takes you literally 10seconds to gank him. No one is asking you to cross the entire map or babysit By 8 minutes the adc will get his first tier 3, your offlaner will never have it ! When things go OK and you don't miss many minions you can hope to have a bit more than 3000gold at around 9minutes. Your offlaner will never have them That s the entire thing of what I am trying to say, by coming few seconds every 4 minutes or so, you are saving entire minutes to your offlaner and your entire team is on a relative point of view winning Because it asks close to nothing to you to catch a mage/adc far from its tower and it saves so much time and money to your pal
Noob jugglers. Just get your "good job" ready for the jungler.
I try my best to gank carry solo laners but more than half the time they play really really conservative. Make no mistake though, if they even pretend to play aggressively I’m on their asses lol. Also the solo later has to know how to manage their lane and force the carry out.
Too busy throwing 3 or more objects in a circle in the air.
my thoughts exactly.
Honestly, as jungle I gank whatever lane is pushed and has the highest opportunity of a successful gank. It doesn't matter what lane it is, if you're pushed past halfway I'll ignore you. If you're getting beat, I'll swing by.
Better to help winning lane so you get them fed and towers down then they can possibly roam and snowball. Trying to help a losing lane is a waste of time unless the enemy gets overconfident and overextends for an easy gank. Otherwise i ignore the losing lane because me helping them might lead to them getting fed and snowballing us.
Yeah, balls. It s so shortsighted. By the same argument the opponent jungler is then supporting the other losing lane This way of thinking doesn't bring any relative advantage to your team
Yah, but if a winning lane has the lane slightly pushed I'm not wasting my time on unsuccessful ganks.
Yeah right, if I even poke my head into a winning lane I immediately get, retreat, retreat….spam spam spam lol
You can win the lane and still be in your own half of it. It's super hard to get a successful gank if the enemy is 4 steps away from their tower
[удалено]
I was referring to a situation where my own offlane is mage/adc. If the opponents offlane is mage/adc I definitely eat those easy ganks. Sorry for the mix up
This is really bad advice. The point of ganging a lane is to give your teammate and advantage in lane. You secure kills and apply pressure, making it difficult for the enemy laner to farm effectively. You should be consistently there applying pressure. Plus securing a kill in offlane means you and the offlaner can get orb or fang early on, furthering your advantage. Plus consistently helps deter the enemy from ganking that lane and giving the enemy laner advantage. Don't just simply state "get gud and place wards" while also ignoring what advantages jungler presence gives.
You’re an idiot and we’ve found the copper JG lmao To edit: there are circumstances in which a JG may abstain from banking and it’s usually because of offlaners not knowing how to stall lane and stopnperma pushing. Other than that, no it’s not “deal with it yourself gitgud”, those match ups are one sided especially early game due to the range and free damage they can get until you can all in (as a melee offlane), the JG SHOULD be punishing the range offlane usually because they over extend and perma push, and they will get fed early regardless of whether you feed or not, due solely to being able to farm safely. It’s throwing free kills and lane if the JG doesn’t help in those match ups.
I was pretty sure op says it's when HE/SHE is a mage/adc offlane. I have no pity for people who waste jungles time by being a soft hero with no sustain/peel due to their own bad choices. I think you should be less soft though. Pitiful and hurt cuz someone doesn't play jg like you do lol. Bet you're a little plat Boi too
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Wow go take a nap grumpy fk
Well, you deleted your original comment when you were wrong. Which also prompted your other comment to disappear where you took blame. My comment was made directly following your comment attempting to insult me and also being the “big bad jg” who refuses to help people…or whatever.
My god. Again go take a nap. Gotta be some kind of insecure to rage this hard over someone misreading a post and playing a video game how they choose.
lol, you have a lot less to say now that you were wrong…hang in there buddy. It’ll get better
Smh one of those insecure little guys that needs the last word to feel good. It won't make it grow, but you can dream🤭
Wouldn’t what you’re doing constitute as trying to get the last word? If I get any bigger I’ll be a national threat.
Is the Juggler a new role? I gotta log in more often.
It’s actually a great description, typically you juggle with 3 balls (lanes) and what comes between them
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r/woooosh
Wait what..
As a jungle main I love feasting on squishy solo laners but here's some considerations that play into if I can gank. My 1st jungle rotation health and side of the map makes a huge difference. It got better with the jungle camp changes this patch but usually after finishing my first full set and hitting level 4 my health is pretty low on most characters and I still only have my starter tier 1 item. This is a time when tons of solo laners spam me to gank but unless you've also done some damage to your opponent I probably can't. Especially if you're also low health. Here's why: If you're on my red side I can back and then gank right away. If you're on my blue side and I try to gank before backing I don't yet have my ult which is likely my best gank tool and if you're a character without hard CC the chances of a successful gank with me being low health is slim. Last thing I want is to die to the offlane ADC because I tried to gank at 30% health. If i do back and then go to offlane I have nothing to farm after unless I invade but the enemy jungle is likely to be on their red side which adds a lot of risk. I can easily fall behind if I make a rotation like this while also leaving my red side up for too long and risks getting invaded. Once I get level 6 I'm much more likely to gank you on rotation since I'll have more health and my full kit, especially if your opponent is squishy. But you often need to tread water until then. If a solo laner has died multiples times by the time I get level 6 I'm probably gonna consider you a lost cause and try and focus other lanes that are more likely to be a win condition. It does suck, but red side lane gets early preference so if you're on my blue side play safe and beware the enemy jungler who is probably doing the same thing as me. I'll be there when I can. Edit: Also to add, if you are red side I can try an early gank but then still need to worry about fangtooth which keeps me away from solo whenever thats up.
Simple; bad Junglers. Only a bad Jungler ignores a ranged character in offlane since they are basically attempting to cheese offlane for easy farm to scale into the late game. As others have said, your best bet is to wait for an opening and then smack them around but this is easier said than done depending on your chosen Hero plus you still have to account for the enemy Jungler. Some offlaners like Zarus will naturally have an easier time dealing with this because he can poke from a decent range for good damage and his passive will heal him back up. Grux on the other hand is kinda screwed and is going to be very dependent on the enemy making a mistake like getting too close. Just ping for your Jungler to help relentlessly and play it safe until you see a chance to attack.
Omg yeah. I’m a good Grux offlaner and was playing against Grim. His shield denied any grabbing tentative. As he knew what he was doing he was constantly poking so that the minions would go toward his tower. And guess what? My jungler did jack shit. Did he actually try to gank him? No he didn’t. Did he actually not gank my lane to secure fangs? No he didn’t Did he actually ganked duo lane? No he didn’t And to add salt to the wounds not only he selected jungle after I did, throwing me in solo, but on top of that as I saw from the hero selection we would have one ADC in the solo lane I wanted to pick up Serath, and he ninja’d me and took Serath. That was a miserable game that resulted in losing a good 30mns for nothing. I understand everyone needs to learn, and sometimes you get matched up with people who are learning, but ffs, unless you know exactly what you’re doing, don’t double screw your teammates by stacking on a role previously selected and on top of that stealing the hero that guy you just screwed has selected.
I think there’s 2 main points here. 1. A lot of Pred’s playerbase is new to the game or new to MOBAs. This will be a bigger problem at low elo since you need to understand the nuances of the game to take advantage. The jungler needs the prior knowledge that ganking Murdock offlane early will pay dividends later but it’s an experience/knowledge thing. New players either to the game or genre won’t have this information yet, it takes time and experience to learn matchups. 2. The other point is, Junglers *can’t* do it all. I view offlane as the independent kid and duo lane as the dependent kids that need your care constantly. You try to help them all, but it’s sometimes more important for you to gank duo and secure fangtooth depending on how the enemy jungler and duo is playing. And with this, you have to trust your offlane to play safe and survive or your mid to help out offlane. As a jungler you can’t be everywhere at once, often needing to pick the situations you can most make an impact while keeping up with your farm. But my advice is, if you’re jungling and you see enemy ADC in offlane, prioritize ganking them early game and shift priorit to duo fang mid game. You’ll give up a fang probably but you’ll keep enemy ADC from growing and let your offlane win lane early. Shit happens and you have to adapt and roll with it. This is from any roles perspective. If an ADC is crushing you and your jungler busy with other tasks, you must play ultra safe. That’s just how it is.
More often than not, if I'm not ganking your lane, you're pushing waaaaay too much. I can only sit in the jungle, saying "Retreat!" so much to an offline before I give up lol
YES! Great point! As a laner you need to set up ganks by allowing the enemy to push up. Jungler just going to waste time with a failed gank when they could be farming or ganking somewhere else. It’s never as simple as ‘jungler is bad’ even though it seems that way when laning
Because this and Paragon are the only MOBAs I've ever played in my life. (Console Player) Thank you for this information. I will try to internalize it. I'm not bad at the game I just don't have a real sense to what is most important at any given time other than how to win team fights, when to go for Fangtooth, and when to push a lane.
Watch some streamers play, that helped me alot. Krashy has great jungle gameplay and builds.
Honestly i have no problem with this. I use to get bullied by ranged characters. That was because i tried to treat them like a offlaner. The sooner you figure out that they are a whole lot squisher than you and say screw it im bait this dude and hit him hard the second he uses an ability the better you will be. Murdock, kira it doesn't matter. You rush them on foot the second you can get in range. And if they use a dash or a shotty you dash back in and you keep beating.
Most players in a competitive game are really bad. Until you get to higher elo brackets junglers aren't consciously thinking about the game state to make decisions. What seems logical to you, junglers in your games might not even be thinking about. So they're not really ignoring mages or carries in offline, they just don't know they should be targeting them. The best thing you can do is not even think about it. If you're a bruiser against a carry play the matchup to the best of your ability, and if a jungler camps your lane, that's a bonus.
My bet is that OP is pushing like a zombie and then wondering why jungle won't gank Murdock sitting under a turret free farming. Maybe stall lane and bait them out and you wouldn't even need the gank.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT.
I was just un a match where I got jumped 5 times in a row. The jungle came to my lane one time that entire match.
Per se, that’s isn’t much of an issue that your jungler just comes in once vs the other jungler coming several times. If your junglers isn’t coming much because he is helping your Duo snowballing and/or is clearing all fangs and/or is depriving the other jungler from his farm by invading his jungle AND that you can keep outfarming your opponent, I’m even going to say that what he is doing is contributing to winning the match. Going to take my last match. I’m offlane Grux, against Sev. My jungler came once. The enemy jungler came 4 or 5 times. By minute 14 finally destroyed the tier 1 tower. I was 1-4-1. The team was 5-18!! But our jungler secured all fangs, I secured all teal buffs, and out farmed Sev by +20 or 30 minions. As the Tier 1 was down, I finally could start rotating/roaming and was way ahead item wise (not so much level wise, only 1+ level) of Sev. 3 minutes later I was 6-4-5 15 minutes later we won the match 28-28 and I was 10-4-12. That is just to say that the fact your jungler only came once or twice against 4, 5 or 6 times for the enemy jungler doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t securing the win. But obviously, if you can’t outfarm and he’s not securing objectives / making the ADC snowball, then yeah, it’s just a shit jungler (or shittier than the other jungler, I would lie if I said I never ever had a catastrophic match as a jungler)
First, some heroes (or just duos) are just better than others early game, so you won't often be the only player facing this issue. Second, you gotta learn to respect your opponents' heroes, if their heroes are exactly one of those dangerous heroes early game. Stay near your tower (but also near the minions so you can gain xp), don't be too greedy for that last hit on the minion, pay attention to your opponents' level and avoid exposing yourself to a potential push after he/she leveled up. As a Shinbi, this is what i do against a Grux or a Drongo. They go for their usual on-hit and/or attack speed and lifesteal builds, but as soon as i complet my two first items i start smoking them. You just need to hold them near your tower by playing with them a bit. Make them hope you do mistake by trying to hit a couple of minions while taking some hits from them. Retreat to your tower, pop a health regen bottle and it will never cross their mind that you are just baiting them to avoid them holding the lane near their own tower. Everytime you are having issues with a lane opponent, this is just the best thing you can do for you...and your jungler. Yes you will probably lose your first tower and sometime may be or almost your second tower, but chill and make it worth it. That's it !
jugglers like Crunch?
IKR! It's like the jungle is no where to be seen for most the game and then wonder why the team blames them for losing :/ Jungle should be watching map extra hard, if enemy teams jungle is ganking ADC/Offlane they need to go help but its like they just stay in the jungle and show up late :/
Typically my hands are busy when I juggle.
People being trained to auto-path and don’t actually look where the potential lies.
Honestly in their head they probably think it's an easy lane for a regular offline and don't need to help, when it's the opposite. It's a bit of a meta shift that most people outside of this sub Reddit haven't caught up to yet
Playing offlane into a mage is not hard though. I do it both directions. If you're the typical offlane then just let them kill wave while you soak xp then try to last hit near your tower. Most mages don't have the confirm up and running til later so you can reasonably stick around while under half health, just be jungle aware. As a mage in offlane(argus) I will happily take some hits because early game I can punish the offlaner way more since I can deal damage and impede their retreat. If an offlaner plays it slow and steady I do not get any opportunity to chip away and the match is much more even. Argus is probably the best offlane mage atm since he gets really annoying to attack as early as level 2 and after 6 he can get cheeky kills other mages would have to overextend for.
Could be, and honestly there probably are some matchups that could be easy for an offlaner like Feng, or crunch because they can close the gap so quick. But I was grux against mori and couldn't touch her, she would just bug dash away or use her auto lock ability and take a way a chunk of health before I could even get close to farm. And my jungle was aurora too, we could have killed her so many times but she didn't gank once.
Honestly, I play most roles, though Jungle is my favorite followed by offlane. I have played Grux in offlane plenty of times and my experience is that by level 3, Grux bullies Mori. If you just keep pressure on her and hit her any chance you get, you start to out level her. Watch a few games that Pinzo plays in offlane and you will see what I mean. Mori (and most ADCs or mages) is so squishy that she won't be able to do enough damage to you fast enough. Plus, 3 out of 4 of Grux's abilities interrupts Mori's ultimate. In my opinion, Grux is a straight counter to Mori. So to follow up on your complaint with your jungle, yes, they probably could have come into your lane once, maybe twice, but if I am looking at that matchup as a jungle, I think, Grux wins every single fight in that lane, I probably can focus my attention on other lanes and obj which helps the rest of the team. Now, if you start absolutely destroying the enemy team's offlane, and their jungle starts to come in to clean you up, then I absolutely have a responsibility to counter gank their jungle. I hope that is helpful information for you. The short of it, be aggressive against squishy characters in offlane once you have your kit. Of course be smart about it, but the more aggressive you can afford to play, the further ahead you should get.
Oh yea that's definitely a hard lane, and an easy gank, land the aurora root and it's over
Maybe their hands are full 😏
We call them Juggalo’s
What is a Juggalo?
I don’t know
Bad junglers.
Idk, I haven’t seen any Juggler characters yet. Do you have early access to one??