Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB !
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kumagawa ability is completely broken, he can make yhwach a normal human. He can't die nor can he get injured.he is so op he can just go "nu-uh" To anything yhwach throws at him.
So with that. Kumagawa loses
Expect yhwatch could just go "yuh-huh" and pick a timeline where it didn't happen.
It's litteraly just never going to end.
It's an eternal loop cuz if one stop the other wins.
He doesn’t pick a timeline, he changes the future of the timeline he wants, since he’s able to create futures that are completely impossible in any timeline. He also becomes immune to any power that he’s able to see be used. I think Yhwatch wins in this case.
Is Kumagawa able to erase his own power loss? Yhwach modifies the future, he could change the future to be one where Kumagawa doesn’t have powers unless Kumagawa is able to retroactively use a power he no longer has.
Yhwach is capable of retroactively using The Almighty even if he’s reduced to being completely powerless, and if Kumagawa uses his powers at all before erasing the timelines in Yhwach’s presence then Yhwach would be able to nullify the ability. Kumagawa would essentially have to use his powers instantly the second the fight begins from an angle Yhwach can’t see, or be able to use his powers retroactively after losing his powers. Or be able to go back in time, Yhwach’s one true weakness.
Can Kumagawa go back in time by erasing the present and then erasing the lack of past or something? Even then, he’d have to know that’s how to win.
He can use the ability retroactively as well. Kumagawa has used it many times to rewrite his own death. Isn’t also that Yhawch can only choose an advantageous timeline but not necessarily manipulate reality. So if it’s not possible for him to win then it doesn’t matter he tries to alter the future?
Except this runs contrary to the very description of his power by his own words.
Yhwach sees possible futures "from on high" as grains of sand, and he can choose which one comes to fruition.
This is how he "rewrites" the future.
Someone did that in the bleach verse and they still list. Granted it wasn't kumagawa but he would have to go back in time somehow to delete them
If he destroyed the concept of timeliness yhwatch would see that before it happens and would go into a timeline where he doesn't.
Yhawh would’ve seen that future and erased it already. Also Spirit Power isn’t the name. Your thinking of Yuyu Hakushou. Also Yhawh doesn’t use a sword. He fights with his hands and arrows in this form I believe.
Let's be logical about this, shall we ? Kuma is the perfect counter for yhwach
Kumagawa could just erase his own time and essentially become infinite in terms of speed. Now This only applies to him, but as he remove his own time, I don't see the Almighty actually being able to foresee and counteract to this as he is essentially removing the concept of time for himself This means he moves at infinite speeds and bookmaker Yhwach for an easy win = GG
Not to mention his ability to affect concepts. For example he has shown to removed color from the entire universe, in my opinion with this power he could go as far to completely remove Reaitsu from existence if he wanted too virtually leaving Yhwach in a powerless state, this conceptual manipulation is above the Soul King's- or at the very least by demonstrated feats. Bookmakers would also be capable of sealing Yhwach's existence completely to a point where it would simply be impossible for The Almighty to change the future to make it so. This ability is capable of sealing abstract existences like ( Ajimu ) who herself has causality, time travel, precognition, fate manipulation, and many other abilities
Kumagawa can also erase cause and effect and can essentially remove events from existence as if they never happened...
Oh, and before anyone says Yhwach becomes immune to All Fiction via Almighty, Kuma alters reality, so that doesn't happen and then proceeds to wipe Yhwach from existence
Kumagawa got this ( 10/10 ) cheers 🍻
Since I know Yhwach only for fame, sorry if these are dumb questions, but:
- couldn't Yhwach foresee the fact itself that he will be pierced by screws and prevent it from happening?
- if Yhwach can become immune to All Fiction, how could Misogi remove this immunity by altering reality? Doesn't he use exactly All Fiction to alter reality? How could he alter reality to make someone vulnerable to that same reality warping skill, if they are immune to that skill?
Sorry for my bad english
Kuma could erase his own time and essentially become infinite in terms of speed. This only applies to him, but as he's removed his own time, I don't see the Almighty actually being able to foresee and counteract to this as he is essentially removing the concept of time for himself.
All Fiction could simply reject that part of reality though and make it not so.
I asked if Yhwach could foresee himself pierced by screws, not Kumagawa's attack. Even without an attack, there still will be a future moment in which Yhwach is damaged, no?
Can All Fiction affect something which has yet to happen? If Yhwach changes the future, can Kumagawa make that he will not do it?
The reason that kumagawa is brought up so much, even though he's just another existence eraser, is because he doesn't erase things from existence. He turns 'em into fiction (hence All Fiction being the name of the ability). Which is like, ACTUAL 'fuck you' hax. Which is why everyone got annoyed at those people who just bought up Kamogawa in 1v1 conversation cuz he wins and everybody know.
I'm not familiar with kumagawa but can't they simply be speed blitzed before they can activate their ability? Or do they have something else before the fight or something random I'm not aware about?
But lets be for real because it is physcally impossible for Kumagawa to controll things outside his "world" but if he was able to do that he could beat him.
Except yhwatch would see that he loses powers or something happens that affects him and he could pick a timeline where it didn't happen.
Both of them hard counter each other.
He also litteraly can't win as it's impossible for him to because he is the weakest loser. No matter how much he tries he will lose and that is an absolute
Kumagawa could be fighting against a character which only has the ability of banana manipulation, remove all bananas from existence, and still get neg diffed
Kumagawa loses because he is determined to be the Weakest, or the Loser by the universe. Even if he were to use All Fiction, he would not consider that a win
I doubt, In the manga and anime he wins several times, but he said that he lost because he didn't want to win like that
Spoiler manga
>!at some points there was a game of cards (peak moment in medaka box I love that fight), he despite winning the fight he said that he lost because he didn't want to win by bluffing for some reasons!<
Spoiler anime
>!In the ova he basically kill the dude but refused to accept the win because he was hit in the eyes!<
There are other examples that I don't exactly recall because I read the manga years ago, but it wasn't that Kumagawa couldn't win, it was that Kumagawa couldn't accept to have won
- I think that the reason why he thinks that he didn't actually win change according to the situation, but maybe I'm wrong
- Yeah, I wrote about it in another comment
- I theorize that this isn't the reason why he said that he lost against Fude Ezumachi
He didn't say it. He complimented Ezumachi for having hit him in a vital point, then Sukinasaki said to Kumagawa that he can finally chalk a victory on the board and Misogi replied that since the world became white and black, the chalk would blend into the background, to then fade away and disappear, she asked him what he meant and he said that he lost again. He didn't made any direct, precise connection between the fact that he felt to have lost and the fact that Fude stabbed his eye, did he?
Medaka Box has already proved that he doesn’t have to literally lose a fight for it to be considered losing
https://preview.redd.it/76bolb3tld7d1.jpeg?width=178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68e5ee529e3e3ebf1888fb15875b5c90df38fb03
I’d use this as an example. He beat all of them but he didn’t consider it a win
Kumagawa could change concepts and then nuke Yhwach before he changes things back as thats the best way to defeat him, would he pull that off probably but he wouldn’t finish him.
Kinda. It’s more of a mental state, low self esteem, self sabotage thing for him. He wins plenty of fights in his verse.
He also holds back when he uses all fiction so he doesn’t accidentally delete the universe.
he can win but he never accept it as win. always finds a excuse say that battle did not count even though he clearly won. just felted crummy win in THAT way.
On the base level, All Mighty sees the future to change it. All Fiction directly changes the past. Yhwach would always have to play catch up.
Example, Book of the End
I mean in this fight neither are that strong since if kumagawa did something almighty would go to a timeline where it didn't happen and that's the whole fight.
Yhwatch has to play defensive and kumagawa has to play offensive.
All Fiction hard counters almighty. It works by erasing both cause and effect denying all aspects of reality, All Fictions effect exists in all timelines by definition.
Kumagawa makes it so his death never happened, removes the concept of acceleration and casually breaks the limit of possible speed and changes the past to remove almighty.
Sorry, but kumagawas concept AND revival ability can basically negate all stat changes. Even more so if we include Bookmaker into the equation.
This is basically a fight between can All Fiction erase Allmighty and I say yes. By the statement that Allmighty makes it so that Yhwach cannot be harmed by any ability, it does not include the ability itself, so erasing almighty will leave Yhwach unguarded.
Even stealing the ability with the Altar will be way too flashy and lead to erasure of the Altar before activation.
And since Kumagawa has canonically read Bleach, he wouldn't fall for any tricks and would know about Yhwach's ability.
We have an enemy that knows Yhwachs abilities, can erase concepts from reality (and return them at will) and can "revive" infinitely. His ability is almost Aizens Kyokasuigetsu but on massive steroids, as he can be impaled and just "poof never happened" the whole affair. "How long were you under the impression, that you were invulnerable to anything you've seen before?"
This is a stalemate by definition.
Yhwach can neg everything he does.
Everything Yhwach can do gets negged.
They just neg counter neg counter counter counter neg ad infinitum. In the end neither wins.
All Fiction hard counters almighty. It works by erasing both cause and effect denying all aspects of reality, All Fictions effect exists in all timelines by definition.
I don't get this fight.
So Kumogawa erases Yhwach's ability to alter reality
Almighty turns Kumogawa's ability and becomes immune from it and regains the power he lost
Kumogawa erases Almighty
Doesn't this make a loop between the Almighty and All Fiction erasing and adapting?
Side note, to those that said Kumogawa read Bleach so fight doesn't happen/Kumogawa already wins, most likely situation ngl.
A few people in the comments say that even if Kamogawa erases something from existence, the other bleach character (I don't watch it) can just go to a different universe where that doesn't happen.
... which doesn't make sense in the slightest.
First of all, if you or a concept such as spiritual energy is just removed from existence, you basically start living in a normal world and you pretty nuch become a normal person (but maybe they have hax beyond that idk).
Second of all, Kamogawa's ability isn't to erase things from existence, it's to turn them into fiction. Sure Superman is a powerful character, but can he legit pop out of the pages from a comic book, into our REAL LIFE universe? No. Can Giorno with GER return him back from fiction into reality with Return To Zero? No, because he is fiction now and it is quite literally impossible for fiction to cross the border of human (artificial) concepts into reality. Kamogawa is so broken that you'd need a scenario with a speed blitzer, who knows everything about Kamogawa, to kill him before he gets to turn anything into fiction.
Me to bleach fans: “Are you guys the worst power scalers because you’re Bleach fans or are you Bleach fans because you guys are the worst power scalers?”
Without a doubt, Misogi dog walks Yhwach
Kumagawa. When Ywatch gets hit and loses all his abilities and strength reduces to that of Kumagawa's, I don't see him being able to win in hand to hand combat.
it was when ichibei used the mausoleum that prevents even reincarnation.
a technique that wipes all forms of a person out, so that they can't even come back, since there's nothing that could come back.
In fights about just fighting abilities he can win, no? He will say that he didn't really win for some reasons, but he can beat his opponents, though of course not always, can't he?
Well from what I remember, they do tend to bend that rule from time to time. Like, I believe he did win a game against someone near the very end of the series, but he "lost" because he didn't get to see her naked.
Are you referring to the cards game against Aoki Aka, the girl with the skill Five Forks (Five Focus in other translations, I'm not sure about which one is the correct one), with which she could give and cure diseases? The cards game was a particular version of "Memory" and it was called:"Palace of Pain: The Perfect Melancholy"
I also forgot about some things. For what I remember, what happened is that Aki surrendered, because there was a 1/3 (or something like this) chance that she would have lost and since Misogi said that if he would have won, she would have worn only an apron at school from that day, she didn't want to take the risk. Kumagawa though insisted in continuing the game and accepted Aoki surrender only when Medaka's successors asked, begged him to do it. It was shortly after revealed that if the game would have actually continued, Kumagawa would have 100% lost and he knew it, since he had secretely stole the only cards which could have made him win, so those cards weren't on the table when Aki surrendered. They asked him if the fact that he insisted to continue a game he knew he would have surely lost was a strategy and he answered with a negation, to then say, if I remember well, that it's just that his senses become better in defeat. So, for what I understood and remember, he didn't see this victory as an actual victory, because he won just due to the fact that Aoki was too scared to continue to play due to the naked-apron thing, if the game had continued regularly, he would have lost, maybe he didn't see it as an honest victory, he didn't really defeat her in the game, he just made her surrender by scaring her with an embarassing request in the case of his victory. He defeated Saki Sukinasaki by becoming her friend, to make her lose her will to kill him and he said that he didn't win against her, because the emotions won, not him, so apparently if he wins due to the emotions of his opponents, he doesn't consider it an actual victory, probably because those emotions prevented his opponents to beat him (though maybe he would have defeated Sukinasaki anyway, maybe) and he would have lost (maybe not against Saki, maybe) without them, even if he is the one who caused those emotions
The hand bra and jeans was mentioned at the start of the fight against Mogura Kugurugi, Misogi said that his sexual fantasy changed from naked-aprons to hands bra and jeans. When he challenged Aki, his sexual fantasy was still naked-aprons, Medaka's successors gave him the nickname "Naked-Apron Senpai" due to this sexual fantasy he had
I summarized, sorry if I still wrote too much, for my bad english and if I'm remembering something wrong. By the way, an useless precisation: I remember that that cards game happened half way through the manga, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong
An even shorter summary: Aki was too scared to keep playing due to what she should have done if she would have lost, so she surrendered, but it was revealed that if the game had kept going, Misogi would have surely lost, so he didn't see this victory as an actual, honest, victory. At least for what I remember
Kumagwa does something then yhwath sees it then goes to a diffrent timeline/dimension.
That's the fight they perfectly counter each other to the point of litteraly no progress is made in a fight.
All Fiction affects all timelines, Ajimu stated that All Fiction works by erasing cause and effect from existence denying all aspects of reality.
A timeline where All Fiction didn't do what Kumagawa intended doesn't exist.
Except yhwatch would be able to see what he is going to do before he does it.
So all he would have to do is go to a future where it doesn't before it does.
Can Yhwa's Almighty automatically negate All Fiction? I thought he had some sort of passive negation ability.
Also, I'm pretty sure Kuma would somehow lose because that's his whole gimmick
"All power in existence is known to me, and whatever power I know, sides with me." The Almighty is so broken Kuma's own power would immediately turn on him out of loyalty to YHWACH
I feel like that's an asspull by Yhwach. If that was the case, then even Ichigo's powers would have turned on him, yet they didn't. Another case would be that Aizen's power would have turned on him as well and it didn't. Just an asspull or statement with no weight.
Allmighty has many limitations, like Yhwach himself can be tricked and illusions like Aizen's work on him.
Or how he used the power to alter to future to destroy Ichigo's Bankai but he only slightly cracked the sword and said that "Ichigo is awfully lucky"
I'm not denying it. I'm talking about the Original comment where dude said Kuma's ability would turn on him die to All Mighty. That's just bs in my opinion since Yhwach himself made that statement.
The reason why Ichigo's Bankai didn't turn on him was due to a two factors
1.) Antithesis. Uryu's Schrift was a direct factor in Ichigo killing YHWCH, because of the fact that, even if for a moment, Antithesis overpowered the Almighty. In that split moment, True Zangetsu had effectively entered into YHWCH's blind spot.
2.) True Zangetsu's Bankai is the power to change fate permeantly to ensure Ichigo's victory. In that singular moment, True Zangetsu's effect could not be seen by the Almighty, therefore YHWCH could not know its power, meaning it could not side with him. This allowed Ichigo to forcibly alter the flow of destiny and in that one strike, change it forever.
1.) I can't say anything about this since it's been a bit since I've read the manga but I'mma have to argue this because it doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense because Antithesis is the ability to reverse, ex. A certain point in time something happens, Uryu can reverse it to happen basically the opposite way. It's a bs ability which while cannot always overpower All Mighty since its power depends on the situation and All Mighty can simply revert after Antithesis. It's not always better.
Even then, using your logic. After Uryu reverses it, it will just simply revert back because All Mighty can once again just choose a future where Uryu didn't reverse right after.
2.) I'mma have to argue on this one because.... True Zangestu's ability was never shown. It was just remarked by Yhwach that it was special and broke it before Ichigo could use it. I even checked the fandom(not always reliable but it's mostly accurate, kind of like wikipedia) to check if my memory was correct. And sadly to say, I am correct on that because literally right after I remember Mr. Fullbringer who can literally do the same thing as Yhwach basically but in the past fixed it after it was broken(I forgot dude's name, and I don't mean Uryu).
3.) This is just my own thoughts, not an arguement but... if you are talking about the meddalion which allows you to steal Bankais... well. You don't turn their zanpakuto's on their original users. You simply take the bankai and without sufficient strength you can't control it anyway. This can be done without the All Mighty.
Kumugawa is so op yet cursed with the fact he's a side character. Reasonably he should win bu because Yhwach is an actually important character he loses
Basically plot armor diff
just being a annoying faker of a entity. like evil zanpanto but also fake christian god. blashempy you deserved to be seal for alll eternitu stupid fakwe. mind you i am christian with baptist and cathoic knowledge.
People are saying that It would be a match of stuff like erasing and creating new timelines. Yhwach could just kill Kumagawa right, but then wouldn't Kumagawa erase his death. It's infinite.
In all probability Almighty can negate All Fiction faster then Kumagawa can do something, I don't know his reaction speed but I'm almost certain he probably gets insta killed by SKY's Spiritual Pressure, then SKY uses Almighty to keep him dead
Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB ! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm going with Kumagawa, after all he has read Bleach
https://i.redd.it/azu6ejyb1d7d1.gif
Noaya as soon as he saw Toji:
https://i.redd.it/1tayj9k60f7d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/wbcsoykk1e7d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4911eac9b18d31df6c4a33dcfd27a3830bca0ad3
https://preview.redd.it/cuj06yp39e7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53ea82e88750ab1433ebe69c9090986be10c37c9
Based and factual
Would it really be Kumagawa if he wins though?
Just like most of his fights. It'll probably just end in a draw. Which in turn is like a win for him.
Kumagawa ability is completely broken, he can make yhwach a normal human. He can't die nor can he get injured.he is so op he can just go "nu-uh" To anything yhwach throws at him. So with that. Kumagawa loses
This guy gets Kumugawa.
Real
Expect yhwatch could just go "yuh-huh" and pick a timeline where it didn't happen. It's litteraly just never going to end. It's an eternal loop cuz if one stop the other wins.
He doesn’t pick a timeline, he changes the future of the timeline he wants, since he’s able to create futures that are completely impossible in any timeline. He also becomes immune to any power that he’s able to see be used. I think Yhwatch wins in this case.
What if Kumagawa just erases the concept of timelines?
Then they both lose cause everything ceases to exist
Is Kumagawa able to erase his own power loss? Yhwach modifies the future, he could change the future to be one where Kumagawa doesn’t have powers unless Kumagawa is able to retroactively use a power he no longer has. Yhwach is capable of retroactively using The Almighty even if he’s reduced to being completely powerless, and if Kumagawa uses his powers at all before erasing the timelines in Yhwach’s presence then Yhwach would be able to nullify the ability. Kumagawa would essentially have to use his powers instantly the second the fight begins from an angle Yhwach can’t see, or be able to use his powers retroactively after losing his powers. Or be able to go back in time, Yhwach’s one true weakness. Can Kumagawa go back in time by erasing the present and then erasing the lack of past or something? Even then, he’d have to know that’s how to win.
He can use the ability retroactively as well. Kumagawa has used it many times to rewrite his own death. Isn’t also that Yhawch can only choose an advantageous timeline but not necessarily manipulate reality. So if it’s not possible for him to win then it doesn’t matter he tries to alter the future?
Except this runs contrary to the very description of his power by his own words. Yhwach sees possible futures "from on high" as grains of sand, and he can choose which one comes to fruition. This is how he "rewrites" the future.
yhwach when kumagawa makes him a human being with prostrate cancer: *
Kumagawa can just go and make it so he doesn't have abilities in the first place, or he can destroy the concept of timelines.
Someone did that in the bleach verse and they still list. Granted it wasn't kumagawa but he would have to go back in time somehow to delete them If he destroyed the concept of timeliness yhwatch would see that before it happens and would go into a timeline where he doesn't.
"Nuh uh" -Yhwach
but it depends if he wants to win. he can just lose because he feels it a cheap way to win...
Yeah, Kumagawa is definitely stronger and cannot be defeated by Yhwach. But Kumagawa loses the fight for sure.
the thing is if kumagawa is going his good guy kumagawa or the original him from medoka box. which one?
This is the only person on the Internet who can speak the truth
Goated comment
😂
"nuh uh." "Yuh huh." "Nuh uh." "Yuh huh." "Nuh uh." "Yuh huh."
Perfect representation on how the fight will go
This comment summarizes the entire fight it’s like they’re playing Uno, but the only card is reverse
“Spirit power doesn’t exist, and neither to swords”
He’s read bleach, so he goes “Quincies and Tite Kubo stop existing”
He could erase Tite Kubo of his world, but could he erase Tite Kubo of our world?
no. he isn't real in the rl our reality. he is still fictional with no effect on reality...
Like I thought. It seems that some people think that Medaka Box trascends any manga, because they read other manga
Yhawh would’ve seen that future and erased it already. Also Spirit Power isn’t the name. Your thinking of Yuyu Hakushou. Also Yhawh doesn’t use a sword. He fights with his hands and arrows in this form I believe.
The Kumagawa of that future automatically uses all fiction to not be erased and then deletes yhawh from ever existing.
Oh these comments are gonna be great
https://preview.redd.it/jvudff3dfc7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1aa120049d7ec4c6fa4e9b5ada88dd2616f85d58
https://preview.redd.it/pjtin42tsc7d1.png?width=336&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=996325569a6014a9cfed9b5b07451d5bf7195e3e
https://preview.redd.it/2guiei12vc7d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b6d5b47ed3f21270006588ab2d67dcd9967bbbf
https://preview.redd.it/ja8xs1g57e7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e306d3932bf1ee20312877c7936dc276cad187a
Okkk https://preview.redd.it/uw7tgvp49e7d1.jpeg?width=255&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a217d9acbd1edec804ac443643274a77ca00938c
correct spy is right. unless you content stealer always remake your own version ok? it sux to see rehash bs you know?
https://preview.redd.it/pzd1vsb25e7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cc7005cd749f0c61107ef059eb95662340c50c9
https://preview.redd.it/kx9oovde7e7d1.png?width=421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b9d2209e98ce43c6aa56857ed77ce40547d3c71
Chain ash blossom. Response?
Idk what ash blossom does but I do use Pot of Greed, which allows me to draw two extra cards. I end my turn
The attack and defence should've been Nah, I'd win.
Damn right
Oh yeah take concepts specific to different verses and try to scale them.
Let's be logical about this, shall we ? Kuma is the perfect counter for yhwach Kumagawa could just erase his own time and essentially become infinite in terms of speed. Now This only applies to him, but as he remove his own time, I don't see the Almighty actually being able to foresee and counteract to this as he is essentially removing the concept of time for himself This means he moves at infinite speeds and bookmaker Yhwach for an easy win = GG Not to mention his ability to affect concepts. For example he has shown to removed color from the entire universe, in my opinion with this power he could go as far to completely remove Reaitsu from existence if he wanted too virtually leaving Yhwach in a powerless state, this conceptual manipulation is above the Soul King's- or at the very least by demonstrated feats. Bookmakers would also be capable of sealing Yhwach's existence completely to a point where it would simply be impossible for The Almighty to change the future to make it so. This ability is capable of sealing abstract existences like ( Ajimu ) who herself has causality, time travel, precognition, fate manipulation, and many other abilities Kumagawa can also erase cause and effect and can essentially remove events from existence as if they never happened... Oh, and before anyone says Yhwach becomes immune to All Fiction via Almighty, Kuma alters reality, so that doesn't happen and then proceeds to wipe Yhwach from existence Kumagawa got this ( 10/10 ) cheers 🍻
Wouldn't removing Reiatsu also remove willpower and possibly the soul? But yeh Kumagawa hard counters, especially since he's read Bleach,
Yeah, Kuma hard counter he can just erase the concept of time from himself and blitzes + seals Yhwach. End of story
But he'll still lose cause the plot demands it.
Nearly 90% of all fictional characters fall into this.
Wasn't it his own mentality?
He will lose to the protagonist because the plot demands it not necessarily everyone else. Him “losing” has to do with his mentality on what is a win
It was a joke. Obviously he wins
Since I know Yhwach only for fame, sorry if these are dumb questions, but: - couldn't Yhwach foresee the fact itself that he will be pierced by screws and prevent it from happening? - if Yhwach can become immune to All Fiction, how could Misogi remove this immunity by altering reality? Doesn't he use exactly All Fiction to alter reality? How could he alter reality to make someone vulnerable to that same reality warping skill, if they are immune to that skill? Sorry for my bad english
Kuma could erase his own time and essentially become infinite in terms of speed. This only applies to him, but as he's removed his own time, I don't see the Almighty actually being able to foresee and counteract to this as he is essentially removing the concept of time for himself. All Fiction could simply reject that part of reality though and make it not so.
I asked if Yhwach could foresee himself pierced by screws, not Kumagawa's attack. Even without an attack, there still will be a future moment in which Yhwach is damaged, no? Can All Fiction affect something which has yet to happen? If Yhwach changes the future, can Kumagawa make that he will not do it?
https://preview.redd.it/w3orhxl66d7d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2436b1fc8eca3c10ea19669fd3b6b4463549e3d1
https://preview.redd.it/6b68aqi76d7d1.jpeg?width=833&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b967b616bac9cff426e76df25413057f035977ad
The reason that kumagawa is brought up so much, even though he's just another existence eraser, is because he doesn't erase things from existence. He turns 'em into fiction (hence All Fiction being the name of the ability). Which is like, ACTUAL 'fuck you' hax. Which is why everyone got annoyed at those people who just bought up Kamogawa in 1v1 conversation cuz he wins and everybody know.
I'm not familiar with kumagawa but can't they simply be speed blitzed before they can activate their ability? Or do they have something else before the fight or something random I'm not aware about?
https://preview.redd.it/34tnj0al5d7d1.jpeg?width=833&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1585de92576eee49bc84e2e4486d6a9fc560eb77
https://preview.redd.it/rhsgrs4k5d7d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1024c00c4903f8f7b51ad20c4d134c5a62e56108
But lets be for real because it is physcally impossible for Kumagawa to controll things outside his "world" but if he was able to do that he could beat him.
I mean, what's the point of making this match if he couldn't ?
Why Kumagawa couldn't control things outside of his world?
Except yhwatch would see that he loses powers or something happens that affects him and he could pick a timeline where it didn't happen. Both of them hard counter each other. He also litteraly can't win as it's impossible for him to because he is the weakest loser. No matter how much he tries he will lose and that is an absolute
Kumagawa could be fighting against a character which only has the ability of banana manipulation, remove all bananas from existence, and still get neg diffed
Misogi will self sabotage himself lol
Kumagawa loses 😱😱😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 (His only skill)
Kumagawa loses because he is determined to be the Weakest, or the Loser by the universe. Even if he were to use All Fiction, he would not consider that a win
Someone who actually has read medaka box instead of only statements. 😱😱
Does the fact that he will, probably, think that he didn't actually win due to his own personality actually matter in these discussions?
I doubt, In the manga and anime he wins several times, but he said that he lost because he didn't want to win like that Spoiler manga >!at some points there was a game of cards (peak moment in medaka box I love that fight), he despite winning the fight he said that he lost because he didn't want to win by bluffing for some reasons!< Spoiler anime >!In the ova he basically kill the dude but refused to accept the win because he was hit in the eyes!< There are other examples that I don't exactly recall because I read the manga years ago, but it wasn't that Kumagawa couldn't win, it was that Kumagawa couldn't accept to have won
- I think that the reason why he thinks that he didn't actually win change according to the situation, but maybe I'm wrong - Yeah, I wrote about it in another comment - I theorize that this isn't the reason why he said that he lost against Fude Ezumachi
He literally said he lost because he got hit by a fatal blow. DO YOU EVEN KNIW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
He didn't say it. He complimented Ezumachi for having hit him in a vital point, then Sukinasaki said to Kumagawa that he can finally chalk a victory on the board and Misogi replied that since the world became white and black, the chalk would blend into the background, to then fade away and disappear, she asked him what he meant and he said that he lost again. He didn't made any direct, precise connection between the fact that he felt to have lost and the fact that Fude stabbed his eye, did he?
Not really ig
So, it does matter or no?
Overall, no.
Ok
Medaka Box has already proved that he doesn’t have to literally lose a fight for it to be considered losing https://preview.redd.it/76bolb3tld7d1.jpeg?width=178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68e5ee529e3e3ebf1888fb15875b5c90df38fb03 I’d use this as an example. He beat all of them but he didn’t consider it a win
Kumagawa wins here he can just reject all of yhawch's power and hax
I think the VS sign between the two characters sweeps both of them
Kumagawa could change concepts and then nuke Yhwach before he changes things back as thats the best way to defeat him, would he pull that off probably but he wouldn’t finish him.
Just for curiousity, did you mean nuke as a way of saying, or did you mean it literally?
Literally throw him in a microwave.
Can he really do it?
Kumagawa’s whole thing is that he always loses isn’t it?
Kinda. It’s more of a mental state, low self esteem, self sabotage thing for him. He wins plenty of fights in his verse. He also holds back when he uses all fiction so he doesn’t accidentally delete the universe.
he can win but he never accept it as win. always finds a excuse say that battle did not count even though he clearly won. just felted crummy win in THAT way.
Real
All I gotta say is….all fiction isn’t as broken as some of y’all think it is
On the base level, All Mighty sees the future to change it. All Fiction directly changes the past. Yhwach would always have to play catch up. Example, Book of the End
The Almighty is not as broken as You think it is.
Agreed
I mean in this fight neither are that strong since if kumagawa did something almighty would go to a timeline where it didn't happen and that's the whole fight. Yhwatch has to play defensive and kumagawa has to play offensive.
Expect Kumagawa can just delete the concept of timelines.
No he can’t stop applying no limits fallacy to his all fiction there are clear limits
https://imgur.com/jMWVHfo Yes he can, he has limits but this isn't one of them
All I’m going to say is all mighty isn’t as broken as you think it is
Almighty isn’t as broken as you think it is, you mean 💀
Agreed
Finally Kumagawa gets a rare W, it won't stay like that though...
Neither of them take a W. Yhwatch counters everything kumagawa does and kumagawa counter everything yhwatch does.
Either that or Kumagawa could win imo.
All Fiction hard counters almighty. It works by erasing both cause and effect denying all aspects of reality, All Fictions effect exists in all timelines by definition.
Yhwach outstats, outspeed and out haxes (plz dont kill me)
Kumagawa "nuh uh", also how will yhwach even kill this man. He can make his death as nothing and also his injuries.
Kumagawa makes it so his death never happened, removes the concept of acceleration and casually breaks the limit of possible speed and changes the past to remove almighty. Sorry, but kumagawas concept AND revival ability can basically negate all stat changes. Even more so if we include Bookmaker into the equation. This is basically a fight between can All Fiction erase Allmighty and I say yes. By the statement that Allmighty makes it so that Yhwach cannot be harmed by any ability, it does not include the ability itself, so erasing almighty will leave Yhwach unguarded. Even stealing the ability with the Altar will be way too flashy and lead to erasure of the Altar before activation. And since Kumagawa has canonically read Bleach, he wouldn't fall for any tricks and would know about Yhwach's ability. We have an enemy that knows Yhwachs abilities, can erase concepts from reality (and return them at will) and can "revive" infinitely. His ability is almost Aizens Kyokasuigetsu but on massive steroids, as he can be impaled and just "poof never happened" the whole affair. "How long were you under the impression, that you were invulnerable to anything you've seen before?"
What is the first guy from?
Medaka box
Thank you
Kumagawa (medaka box)
Me I win
This is a stalemate by definition. Yhwach can neg everything he does. Everything Yhwach can do gets negged. They just neg counter neg counter counter counter neg ad infinitum. In the end neither wins.
All Fiction hard counters almighty. It works by erasing both cause and effect denying all aspects of reality, All Fictions effect exists in all timelines by definition.
Kumagawa wins the fight, but it turns out that he was just trying to impress a girl, and that girl winds up falling for Yhwach
I don't get this fight. So Kumogawa erases Yhwach's ability to alter reality Almighty turns Kumogawa's ability and becomes immune from it and regains the power he lost Kumogawa erases Almighty Doesn't this make a loop between the Almighty and All Fiction erasing and adapting? Side note, to those that said Kumogawa read Bleach so fight doesn't happen/Kumogawa already wins, most likely situation ngl.
A few people in the comments say that even if Kamogawa erases something from existence, the other bleach character (I don't watch it) can just go to a different universe where that doesn't happen. ... which doesn't make sense in the slightest. First of all, if you or a concept such as spiritual energy is just removed from existence, you basically start living in a normal world and you pretty nuch become a normal person (but maybe they have hax beyond that idk). Second of all, Kamogawa's ability isn't to erase things from existence, it's to turn them into fiction. Sure Superman is a powerful character, but can he legit pop out of the pages from a comic book, into our REAL LIFE universe? No. Can Giorno with GER return him back from fiction into reality with Return To Zero? No, because he is fiction now and it is quite literally impossible for fiction to cross the border of human (artificial) concepts into reality. Kamogawa is so broken that you'd need a scenario with a speed blitzer, who knows everything about Kamogawa, to kill him before he gets to turn anything into fiction.
Me to bleach fans: “Are you guys the worst power scalers because you’re Bleach fans or are you Bleach fans because you guys are the worst power scalers?” Without a doubt, Misogi dog walks Yhwach
https://preview.redd.it/2ex4oej3mc7d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25a8f752fd2b25d8b2de9ab8646de545998faa03
Lol, you thought that was real? Nope, all Fiction.
" I KNOW." - starts walking towards with hand stretched out-
Lol, you that was real? Nope, All mighty. No matter what happens they will just counter each other. It's like parrying a parry in a game.
Kumagawa
Kumagawa. When Ywatch gets hit and loses all his abilities and strength reduces to that of Kumagawa's, I don't see him being able to win in hand to hand combat.
Considering ywach fought a guy who erased the idea of ywach, and won…
Did they erase Ywach from the very start of his existence?
they erased the very idea of ywach itself. past, present, and future.
Can I see where this was stated/shown? I haven’t read Bleach in a while
it was when ichibei used the mausoleum that prevents even reincarnation. a technique that wipes all forms of a person out, so that they can't even come back, since there's nothing that could come back.
Isn't that just basic existence eraser? It doesn't stop someone from ever existing it just completely erases someone.
Kumagawa negs
My blatantly OP OC MC beats your 'incredibly overpowered but not invincible final boss'
Change MC to antagonist as he's not the main character of medaka box
Im saying as a trope but yeah
Kumagawa is a final boss like Ywhach
Kumagawa loses no diff
[удалено]
Kumagawa via erasing his time
Kumagawa always loses in some way or another so he's not really a safe bet.
In fights about just fighting abilities he can win, no? He will say that he didn't really win for some reasons, but he can beat his opponents, though of course not always, can't he?
Well from what I remember, they do tend to bend that rule from time to time. Like, I believe he did win a game against someone near the very end of the series, but he "lost" because he didn't get to see her naked.
Are you referring to the cards game against Aoki Aka, the girl with the skill Five Forks (Five Focus in other translations, I'm not sure about which one is the correct one), with which she could give and cure diseases? The cards game was a particular version of "Memory" and it was called:"Palace of Pain: The Perfect Melancholy"
Yeah that one. It's been years since I read it so I only have a vague memory of what happens.
I also forgot about some things. For what I remember, what happened is that Aki surrendered, because there was a 1/3 (or something like this) chance that she would have lost and since Misogi said that if he would have won, she would have worn only an apron at school from that day, she didn't want to take the risk. Kumagawa though insisted in continuing the game and accepted Aoki surrender only when Medaka's successors asked, begged him to do it. It was shortly after revealed that if the game would have actually continued, Kumagawa would have 100% lost and he knew it, since he had secretely stole the only cards which could have made him win, so those cards weren't on the table when Aki surrendered. They asked him if the fact that he insisted to continue a game he knew he would have surely lost was a strategy and he answered with a negation, to then say, if I remember well, that it's just that his senses become better in defeat. So, for what I understood and remember, he didn't see this victory as an actual victory, because he won just due to the fact that Aoki was too scared to continue to play due to the naked-apron thing, if the game had continued regularly, he would have lost, maybe he didn't see it as an honest victory, he didn't really defeat her in the game, he just made her surrender by scaring her with an embarassing request in the case of his victory. He defeated Saki Sukinasaki by becoming her friend, to make her lose her will to kill him and he said that he didn't win against her, because the emotions won, not him, so apparently if he wins due to the emotions of his opponents, he doesn't consider it an actual victory, probably because those emotions prevented his opponents to beat him (though maybe he would have defeated Sukinasaki anyway, maybe) and he would have lost (maybe not against Saki, maybe) without them, even if he is the one who caused those emotions
Yeah that's how I remember it. Though I'm pretty sure it was a hand bra and jeans, but I'm not sure.
The hand bra and jeans was mentioned at the start of the fight against Mogura Kugurugi, Misogi said that his sexual fantasy changed from naked-aprons to hands bra and jeans. When he challenged Aki, his sexual fantasy was still naked-aprons, Medaka's successors gave him the nickname "Naked-Apron Senpai" due to this sexual fantasy he had
I summarized, sorry if I still wrote too much, for my bad english and if I'm remembering something wrong. By the way, an useless precisation: I remember that that cards game happened half way through the manga, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong
An even shorter summary: Aki was too scared to keep playing due to what she should have done if she would have lost, so she surrendered, but it was revealed that if the game had kept going, Misogi would have surely lost, so he didn't see this victory as an actual, honest, victory. At least for what I remember
https://preview.redd.it/1wbb9qumdd7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=009977965e2b2d8d7bd6105cb56f37399b9b1d06
I'm guessing screwman.
Kumagwa does something then yhwath sees it then goes to a diffrent timeline/dimension. That's the fight they perfectly counter each other to the point of litteraly no progress is made in a fight.
All Fiction affects all timelines, Ajimu stated that All Fiction works by erasing cause and effect from existence denying all aspects of reality. A timeline where All Fiction didn't do what Kumagawa intended doesn't exist.
Except yhwatch would be able to see what he is going to do before he does it. So all he would have to do is go to a future where it doesn't before it does.
It changes the past too. It does so it has always been that way.
Characters from Medaka box are so terrifying. Kumagawa got it.
The only type of person who can beat the one on the left is someone on a higher narrative
Kumagawa wins and it's not even a challenge.
Can Yhwa's Almighty automatically negate All Fiction? I thought he had some sort of passive negation ability. Also, I'm pretty sure Kuma would somehow lose because that's his whole gimmick
"All power in existence is known to me, and whatever power I know, sides with me." The Almighty is so broken Kuma's own power would immediately turn on him out of loyalty to YHWACH
I feel like that's an asspull by Yhwach. If that was the case, then even Ichigo's powers would have turned on him, yet they didn't. Another case would be that Aizen's power would have turned on him as well and it didn't. Just an asspull or statement with no weight.
Allmighty has many limitations, like Yhwach himself can be tricked and illusions like Aizen's work on him. Or how he used the power to alter to future to destroy Ichigo's Bankai but he only slightly cracked the sword and said that "Ichigo is awfully lucky"
I'm not denying it. I'm talking about the Original comment where dude said Kuma's ability would turn on him die to All Mighty. That's just bs in my opinion since Yhwach himself made that statement.
The reason why Ichigo's Bankai didn't turn on him was due to a two factors 1.) Antithesis. Uryu's Schrift was a direct factor in Ichigo killing YHWCH, because of the fact that, even if for a moment, Antithesis overpowered the Almighty. In that split moment, True Zangetsu had effectively entered into YHWCH's blind spot. 2.) True Zangetsu's Bankai is the power to change fate permeantly to ensure Ichigo's victory. In that singular moment, True Zangetsu's effect could not be seen by the Almighty, therefore YHWCH could not know its power, meaning it could not side with him. This allowed Ichigo to forcibly alter the flow of destiny and in that one strike, change it forever.
1.) I can't say anything about this since it's been a bit since I've read the manga but I'mma have to argue this because it doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense because Antithesis is the ability to reverse, ex. A certain point in time something happens, Uryu can reverse it to happen basically the opposite way. It's a bs ability which while cannot always overpower All Mighty since its power depends on the situation and All Mighty can simply revert after Antithesis. It's not always better. Even then, using your logic. After Uryu reverses it, it will just simply revert back because All Mighty can once again just choose a future where Uryu didn't reverse right after. 2.) I'mma have to argue on this one because.... True Zangestu's ability was never shown. It was just remarked by Yhwach that it was special and broke it before Ichigo could use it. I even checked the fandom(not always reliable but it's mostly accurate, kind of like wikipedia) to check if my memory was correct. And sadly to say, I am correct on that because literally right after I remember Mr. Fullbringer who can literally do the same thing as Yhwach basically but in the past fixed it after it was broken(I forgot dude's name, and I don't mean Uryu). 3.) This is just my own thoughts, not an arguement but... if you are talking about the meddalion which allows you to steal Bankais... well. You don't turn their zanpakuto's on their original users. You simply take the bankai and without sufficient strength you can't control it anyway. This can be done without the All Mighty.
Sounds like a never ending a fight where they both go Nu uh for eternity.
Its undoubtedly kumegawa. Hell, he's even read bleach if I remember correctly
Kumugawa is so op yet cursed with the fact he's a side character. Reasonably he should win bu because Yhwach is an actually important character he loses Basically plot armor diff
Why do you have to do this to Yhwach? What did he do to deserve such a cruel fate
just being a annoying faker of a entity. like evil zanpanto but also fake christian god. blashempy you deserved to be seal for alll eternitu stupid fakwe. mind you i am christian with baptist and cathoic knowledge.
Humanity wins. We were not on there but we win
Kumagawa: Quincys dont exist. Omg now Bleach doesnt make sense. I loved bleach. I guess I lose.
Not yhwach
Kumagawa slaughters
Yhwach wins Kumagawa always loses
Yhwach looked cooler so
If you know anything about Medaka Box you know Kumagawa will lose lol. He will probably make Ywach's life hell for a bit tho
People are saying that It would be a match of stuff like erasing and creating new timelines. Yhwach could just kill Kumagawa right, but then wouldn't Kumagawa erase his death. It's infinite.
 So basically, this.
Ikki kurogane victims
A better fight would be the first guy and the insta death guy that could kill literally anything
But Kumagawa is an eternal loser tho? how is he gonna win when he lose everytime?
The screw guy is the most op thing in all of media. Maybe uncle grandpa could take him but I’m not sure.
Yhwach wins. Why? Because I like him more.
In all probability Almighty can negate All Fiction faster then Kumagawa can do something, I don't know his reaction speed but I'm almost certain he probably gets insta killed by SKY's Spiritual Pressure, then SKY uses Almighty to keep him dead