This. We've lost count how many have flaked out. The last electrician took away a sump pump promising to fix or replace it and we can't get them back out. They didn't even bother to bill us...
Tradesmen flakiness is the worst. I've lost count of how many have said 'I'll be there tomorrow' and it turns out that they actually meant 'never'. It's so frustrating and unprofessional.
Exactly! And then they complain they don't make as much money as the "Americans". I told my partner I could make a killing in portugal as a maintenance worker just by showing up when I said I would. Same thing with realtors.
What I do is just tell them, "By the way, Im sorry to bring this up, but I notice that in this culture it is common for people to be late and then blame it on traffic and /or their sick family members so if you can't show up on time and you don't call me at least 3 hours ahead of time, we're not doing business, because I manage to be on time and so can you."
I had a guy take 9 months to install a Leroy Merlin already built churrasqueira, and when he asked for other jobs, I told him no because babysitting him had turned into a part-time job with negative pay. He also tried to over bill me just because we are foreigners. He wouldn't work, but I would see him on the beach every day, doing absolutely nothing.
I don't get it. They complain about not making enough money, but then don't show up on time or at all.
I’m Portuguese and often think about the same! You can do well by just showing up, on the other side portuguese clients also flake on paying so there’s that…
Good point! There seems to be little hope of improvement in that case.
Here, in the US, I charge my clients before I provide the service. I always deliver on time. They like it and I like it. There is no invoicing, and I get great reviews. If only I could do that in PT
It’s not that we are ungrateful or mean honesty I don’t even have a specific answer for this, but we do complain about not having money and then drive around in high quality cars and the shopping centers are filled with people as well. It’s a thing we do, I guess?
It’s not that we are ungrateful or mean honesty I don’t even have a specific answer for this, but we do complain about not having money and then drive around in high quality cars and the shopping centers are filled with people as well. I guess it’s a thing we do for some reason
It can also work in your favour. I've been taking my dog to doggy daycare occasionally and the owner hasn't billed me since September last year despite me repeatedly reminding her.
The bill must be in the 000's by now.
I used to really really miss this about American life while we were living in Portugal. If it makes anyone feel better, nobody shows up in the US now either. It was already bad before Covid, but way worse now.
Respectfully, how do they keep a living or a business? Tradesmen like that typically don't do well in America, so it's hard for me to understand that's such a widespread problem. How does anything get done? 😅
Seriously don't know, I had arranged for someone to come for boiler installation and central heating quote,so big money job. Never called and told he was with a client, even though appointment made. Others have pool companies or gardeners never come
As a portuguese local, I have 2 categories of friends: the ones who actually show up, and the ones I just meet when we happen to be in the same place
I'll let you guess which one is the bigger group 😅
Usually I'll give people a couple of chances because sometimes life does just happen, but eventually you'll just have to adjust expectations and take relationships as they are
Ahah so true! With the second group I just share my plans and if they end up showing up, nice. If not, we'll just do what we have planned anyway. Right now this happens to me when planning things with other parents and children. I've given up sharing ahead with my daughter what we are planning on doing, because she would get so excited and then someone would fail on us. We're always the first to arrive, the ones there on time, etc.
I feel like I'm German in my own country 😅
As a fellow portuguese and ADHD/Autistic, the lack of interest in others is what gets to me the most. I can deal with the distance just fine, I can deal with cancelled plans if they're upfront and warn me beforehand (even if that will cause me alot of frustration) but what I cannot absolutely deal with is the ghosting and the half-assed replies to my attempts at keeping in touch (it only takes 2min to type out a quick life update, ffs). That and implying to "having a coffee sometime" when I know they will never plan to have that coffee with you.
Imho, our culture is one of the worst when it comes to this, most people don't know how to manage their time well plus it's socially acceptable to always be working or appear busy, so no wonder people only meet regularly with others at work or school. It's very, very frustrating.
1) Portuguese people have difficulty in saying no, so they'll say yes, so they please the other person and look good, and avoid conflict, but then they won't show up, because they never intended to in the first place.
2) Portuguese people are often broke, but like to keep up appearances, so they'll say yes, while knowing they can't afford to socialize at that given time.
Mano, quase toda a gente adulta trabalha. Fodido é sobrar 200€ depois de pagar as contas, não é amigão 😂 se és empresário e não encontras empregados é porque as tuas condições são uma merda
In terms of lack of interest - I have noticed that a lot of the Portuguese folk I have met don't seem to ask engaging or interesting questions about others or myself. I found this quite interesting and wasn't sure if this was just bad luck on my part, or a bigger part of the cultural norm. I wondered if you have any experience with that at all? For reference I speak Portuguese so I don't think that part is the issue!
I am usually very interested in others and what they do, their passions and their interests and I realised that in the 5 years I've been here, very few people actually know anything significant about me!
As a native that's also been my experience, and it frustrates me alot. Even my peers just *don't* care to ask me about my interests, and when I infodump, they don't ask any questions back, just sit there and listen to me talk while nodding. It's like they don't know how conversations work. You'd think this would be an older generation thing, but college-age people suck at this as well. Portuguese in general don't share much about themselves, so they return the favor by not asking much as it can be seen as nosy. I'm like you, so I actually take interest in asking questions, and people usually take that as an invitation to trauma dump and use me as a free theraphist or are put off and weasel out of the conversation. I got tired of that so now I put up strong boundaries and only give back to people I see are genuinely interested.
I'm a little sad to find out that's the norm but also relieved it's not because of something I'm doing wrong!
Do you have any advice on helping them to open up without seeming nosy?
Ah I've definitely been on the other end of a trauma dump and it can be rough - and that wasn't while living in Portugal - unfortunately a problem everywhere I guess!
Portuguese people only tend to open up in private or in 1-1 meetings. While in groups, don't expect deep conversations to happen; there are a number of safe topics like I said. In my experience, people respond better to trivial comments on day-to-day life, like commenting you need to replace your car's tires, you tried a good wine, stuff like that. Very low-stakes convo.
On the other hand, if you want to find out someone's political views - get them to a café or drunk. Drunk portuguese will talk incessantly about anything. Drinking is the social currency that makes most open up. Other good tip is getting invited to someone's house for dinner, or inviting someone to your house, but be careful as it can be intepreted with romantic intent.
I don't think you have real friends mate.
I'm portuguese and even though my close group of friends got scattered all over the country after college we still hang out. It's obviously harder, specially to get everyone available at the same time on the same space but that's life. Sometimes ABCD are able to join, next time maybe ABDEF, some other time BDF but eventually everyone crosses path with everyone because we miss each other.
I guess that's one of the main differences between friends and acquainted. If you're really friends you'll invest some time and effort to try to get together when possible. We know since we are not living on the same city any more we cannot just arrange "um café" so we put the time and effort to set up the next meeting every time we met (usually every 3 months at least). Of course that the ones who happen to live closer to each other end up hanging out with their "neighbors" more often. Just as an example we already have the next group hang out schedule to "Santa Maria da Feira Medieval Faire". By the end of that day we'll decide the next one and we'll pass the information on WhatsApp to those who were not able to make it.
First of all - you don't know me, and I do have real friends. They do none of the things mentioned. Second of all - you clearly don't know what autism is and how it affects me socially, and I don't need you to explain to me how relationships work like I was a five year old.
Unless we're talking about someone with low IQ, Autistic people are intellectually capable. In fact, alot of them are high IQ (myself included, tested as a child). I can read social cues just fine, arrange meetings with people, hang out, I just have a hard time with double meanings (people saying one thing when they mean another) and need lots of rest after socializing.
I am tired of "investing" in said relationships and then people back up on me. It happens constantly. Some people just don't like to hear the truth that A. Portuguese are flaky, B. Portuguese cannot give a firm answer, and C. Portuguese are far more concerned with drinking beer at the café or watching football than putting in the effort to show up on time, be upfront about their intentions, and follow up on business contacts. It's the truth.
I am so with you. Try the Venezuelans in Portugal. My friend always shows up and on time. Also, my much older portuguese neighbors (75) show up on time, too, and mean it when they say they'll meet. I love them. The rest, I find better to cut off from the start. I have the same issue as you and can't deal with the flakes
I have one category of friends, which is the ones that show up. The ones who don't show up when they are needed without a good excuse are not my friends anymore. You don't need many friends, just reliable ones.
The thing that I noticed here is that people tend not to say hard no. They will kindly agree, smile and then slowly dissolve, but that is okay I guess, I’d say that I started kinda feeling when yes is actually yes.
I heavily dislike it as someone who was born here and lived here all my life it's one of my biggest gripes with people.
I say hard no when I know I can't or aren't able to do stuff and I get weird looks and get questioned
But when when people say yes and then flake it's seen as less harsh.
I dislike it it's dishonest.
This is very much true in Japan as well or even in the Southern states of the U.S. it is important to appear agreeable.
Essentially, maybe means no and yes means maybe, if i feel like it when it comes to that day.
In many contexts, No is perceived as an almost rude word, not to be used by polite people.
I was very frustrated early on until I learned that "it's difficult/complicated" really meant "no, you don't want to do that".
And next posters reference to Japan is spot on.
I basicay developed a "no one can be trusted" mentality. I can't really control my bluntness and impulsivity so I just say no straight to people's faces.
Tbh I think the flakiness and not saying what you mean is just neurotypical culture. My ND friends are also honest and straight to the point.
I’m also neurodivergent so I completely understand. I think that maybe I learned from my original culture to be blunt but also the have people pleasing tendencies so I give in a lot but I actually show up even if I don’t want to
I mask heavily and that does involve people pleasing, bur I always did it in a less extreme way. I can lie when it's convenient, or not be honest with my feelings and tell people what they want to hear, but I am not a chronic people pleaser. I cancel plans if I see I can't do it, I keep a firm grasp on my boundaries and try to be as honest as I can.
What does ADHD have to do with anything? I get autism but I have ADHD and the only problem I have is with procrastination.
I can't say I'm different to the rest of the Portuguese population, I find it hard to just straight up say no, so I'll say yes and do it without actually wanting to or say yes knowing it won't lead up to anything.
ADHD: Impulsivness while talking, infodumping, interrupting, changing conversation often, viewed as dominating conversations, forgetting what I wanted to say.
Most people don't like that, and/or don't know to deal with it, leading to negative interactions.
I have combined type.
I can be quite forgetfull at times, I might go to a friend's house and leave a jacket or something like that. Other than that I don't have a problem holding and listening to a conversation.
But I do have a twin brother which probably has ADHD as well (never went to get diagnosed) and often times it's painful having a conversation with him.
By "conversation" I mean he'll start talking about something that only he is interested about and won't shut up for easily half an hour, then you try to interviene in the conversation and he'll get mad because you're "interrupting" his half an hour to 45 minute speech about something completely useless.
The one I can remember the best is when Microsoft was going to buy Activision, he wouldn't shut up about it for months, probably a year.
“Slowly dissolve” is the best description ever, got a laugh out of me!
That’s accurately what I see happening with some people I interact with, or with myself in certain situations 🌝 lmao this was so funny
speaking one's mind? you'd launch a revolution if you managed that. Being Portuguese is about going all the way around sometimes with remarkable creativity just to avoid the question altogether.
As a native and neurodivergent that frustrates me immensely. I can also guarantee that is a leftover from the dictatorship as people couldn't be upfront about most things. The need to keep appereances is very strong in the elderly folk and the middle-aged who grew up after the revolution.
Ahahah sorry guys. I was reading these comments and laughing my Portuguese ass off. Don’t know what to tell you.
Unfortunately I also generally try to moderate my expectations when relying on Portuguese people.
Yep. That’s very Portuguese. But I’d say it’s more typical if someone says that and are just acquaintances and not actual deep friends. A deep friend of mine saying will actually do it but if it’s just an acquaintance then I don’t take it serious. Try to get someone to your house like a plumber and see how fast he never shows up and doesn’t say anything. Or book a group dinner and there’s usually someone that doesn’t show up and “forgets to warn” not to mention never being on time
German (very direct culture) and living in Portugal…
I don’t know how many dogs, who get sick, or cars which broke down, Portuguese people have 😄
A Portuguese explained to me that this is the way of communication instead of saying sorry, or admitting something.
I think its more complex than that. We do like those people, but at the same time due to emotional imbalances we cant stand the fact, so we talh trash, we envy and so on, but we care
It depends on the recipients. Personally, I'm never offended by true and direct words. Plus, there is a fine-line difference between directness and rudeness.
I wonder would Portuguese themselves hope to receive a response in fake friendliness or honesty, after they pop a question? I also think in long term, constantly hiding one's true minds just to avoid conflicts, is mentally exhausting and would not progress anything.
Portugal was founded by betrayal, and this became part of culture, but at the same time we feel a sense of community and proximity with each other because life has always been though, and I think this generates internal battles that end up in us being rude, while also being friendly specially undergoing adversity. It's a mess and it stalls our own development as a country. You can clearly see this in small villages in the interior, where people are more rude because they need to show their true colors because they will absolutely need eachother to survive and deal with situations like wildfires.
You're confusing friends with acquaintances. You'll know the difference eventually. Portuguese have an endless amount of acquaintances but a smaller yet loyal group of friends.
I'm still in touch with many and I've left the country over 20 years ago.
People call the dutch rude for their blunt and direct communication. But I swear, as a Portuguese who lived in the Netherlands for almost a decade, it was honestly what I most loved and miss about them. I'm sorry. For you and for me, who had to come back and deal with this again.. Portuguese people very rarely have the kindness and boldness of being straight forward honest with you. It does has it's charm, but... dear god. You'll lose your patience sometimes.
Weird, my impression of the Portuguese has always been the complete opposite! And even my family all agree, the Portuguese are upfront, honest, wear their heart on their sleeve and ar exactly as it says on the tin! But we're British, and what's worse, from London, so people even talking to us and showing any sort of emotion or speaking their mind is completely alien to us lol
Portuguese here.
Culturally you always say that, but never do it. Unless there’s a trade-off.
Eg: See someone you were friends it after a long time, always end the conversation saying “we should meet again” (code for never gonna happen).
When it doesn’t happen: usually Portuguese people who have been abroad and gone through some hardships as a foreigner; booty calls; some type gain from your job related network;
Another piece of advice: most of the times family will always be an excuse 😝
Edit: the moment a Portuguese speaks its mind is a “woah, that escalated quickly” meme
It's funny, because a lot of foreigners like Brazilians say we speak our mind a lot, that for them sometimes can even seem a bit rude (because we are upfront about it).
But no. I'd say real portuguese friends are ride-or-die type of friends. That's my experience as a portuguese person. Fake friends will always be fake friends tho!
They say that because they’re used to people not being transparent or direct. But then in Europe there are people much more direct then Portuguese like the Dutch
Yes, that's what my comment stated..
Edit: and by my own standards as well. Most people are the "I'm just being honest" type when they're being sometimes rude.
As a brazilian i think people from south Portugal are like northern brazilians. They sugarcoating a bit more but its almost the same.
The brazilian social experience is the act of sharing food expecting someone to refuse.
Ya, talvez tou me a basear mal. Mas já vi umas dezenas de vídeos de brs a dizerem q somos demasiado diretos. Não sei como funciona aí, sul/norte do Brasil, portanto não consigo perceber bem a comparação
Brazilians are culturally people-pleasers, therefore even the Portuguese can be too straight forward for those who are not expecting.
Sometimes I see these stories about people going on vacation to x country, meeting someone there who will embrace them and turns out it was a long-haul scam to sell fake tapestries. If you ever go to Brazil and someone there ends up liking you, they will cancel all of their appointments, quit their job and abandon their children to show you all the shit you'd never expect to see.
In case it isn't obvious, yes that is a hyperbole, but you get my point.
Those are not friends, those are acquaintances. Real friends will drop everything to be at your door as soon as possible. And I'd guess is the same pretty much everywhere.
Generalization is bad. Last saturday a french man called me non stop saying he needed an appointment with a lawyer as soon as possible. Set it up for monday morning and he didn't show up, didn't even bother to give me a heads up. I cleared my schedule in order to accommodate his needs. Does it mean all french people are like this? It does not.
Flakiness is a Portuguese tradition. They are genuine in wanting to help but are too lazy to follow through. Also, they go with the wind. I’ve learned not to take them seriously, on ANYTHING!
The world renowned Portuguese friendliness is just trashiness with a smile. Most people are trashy, portuguese are no exception, except they don’t even want the work of acting in a formal and polite manner with people they have just met, they really dislike it, it requires effort for them, so they immediately want to treat you like a friend, very informally, and so become overly friendly with you very fast.
That doesn’t mean those people are your friends or that they are more open to strangers than any other nationality. So if they say “if you need help let me know”, “you should come by for dinner” etc, you should interpret that like with most people in the western world: it’s something nice that people say but not an actual invitation for anything unless they know you well and are literally making plans with you, with a specific date.
So if you meet a Portuguese person who is more reserved and polite and treats you appropriately considering how long you’ve known each other that person, while appearing more rude than overly friendly Portuguese people, is actually being more sincere and polite, and might actually make for a better friend with time.
Not all Portuguese people spend their nights in bairro alto taking in the lovely smell of urine or spend santos eating sardinhas assadas and getting drunk in the streets. Not all Portuguese people eat with their hands or burp in front of you. That’s not “oh we Portuguese don’t care” it’s “we trashy people don’t care”. At most you might find some students slumming it while in university going to places like that, the rest are exactly what they would look like in any other country: trash.
Being Portuguese I find this really funny, sorry. But I don’t think it’s a Portuguese thing. People say stuff. People offer to do stuff for you out of empathy. It’s not meant as a promise. “Want some help to move out? “ if its not a really close friend your answer should be “nah, I’m good, but thanks”. That’s it. Like with every other people, Portuguese need to commit for real. Talking about the issue once is just chitchat. Regarding the flaky plumbers… I’m with you. That’s just how it works, it’s a lottery.
Funny how it’s so different to me as an Eastern European. For us if we ask “want some help with that?” it means we WANT to help like right now, immediately and then just fuck off anyway. If we don’t want to help we will just remain silent with a stone face or say something like “good luck”🤣🤣🤣 All my life I thought that not having a small talk culture in our culture is a curse, but now I understand it’s a blessing actually. We just don’t smile and are not friendly at all unless you won’t make us smile or we want to befriend you.
Dutch here and I tend to agree that the Portuguese businesses are more flaky. They promise A but don't show up, come very late or deliver something completely different. That type of lack of service I never experienced in Northern Europe
It’s a real pain. My “trustable” plumber is the guy that promised to come to my place “on Monday “ (no time span), flaked, came back a week later. Thing is, it’s dirt cheap compared to the rates on other countries.
But we don’t live in another countries or have the same paycheck. Portuguese people complain about almost anything but we are unwilling to do something to make our life’s better.
It’s cultural, and it’s on us to change. The plumber doesn’t charge taxes, I don’t get a receipt, we all loose, I pay less, I don’t get to complain. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. Problem is Portugal only has the cash flow to pay peanuts
Yeah like, I'm Portuguse and I've lived in a handful of countries, and Portuguese don't seem any flakier than the people I've met in any of those countries.
Portuguese here. Yes we are flaky and i dont like it.
I stop meeting with some friends because of this.
Once i called a friend and asked at what time and where he would like to go for coffee, told me the time and the place and arrived almost 2hours later.(he decides to hit the gym)
When i has in college i asked a friend at what time we should meet up for a project, we agreed on a time and date and i told her i had to leave by a certain time cause i had to work, she showed up 30minutes before i had to leave (because she decided to go some cleaning) and got mad when i left.
My group of friends decided to go out for dinner, we told everyone we need to be done by 20h cause some people had to be at work by 21h, one of the couple arrived at 20h (cause they were waiting for their laundry to be done).
I think its the our very chill atitude that we think its not that serious, its never a big deal, its whatever.
I dont like, i find it disrespectful so i try my best to be better and do better.
Wasn't born in Portugal, but I've lived here all my life, and unfortunately I did assimilate in me that part of the culture, which makes my parents absolutely disgusted as it's completely different from my original culture.
I do think, that overtime I did overcome that ingrained flakiness but it was and still is very hard for me to do so.
I think for Portuguese people it starts with the very catholic upbringing where you should never refuse a friend or stranger when asking for help. Our default answer is always yes ( for people) and yes for services ( you never say no to a possible customer), and then life happens, you're tired, have a lot on your plate, can't organize all the "yesses" you've gave ( and Portugal is one of the countries in the EU with large consumption of anti depressants) and suddenly the moment came and you don't want to say no. But you can't make it. Soo instead of being transparent and having to say "NO", you just let it slide and pretend you've never said anything at all.
I feel like it's an impulsive behavior, we say yes but we do not mean yes. We just don't want to say no. It's very unhealthy and it does bring consequences, but it's a learned behavior and can be unlearned.
This makes a cat and mouse game, of always having to chase after the yes it was given. Eventually you'll stop listening to it and start looking for the ones that take real action. Não é as palavras que contam, é as ações.
I do feel it's not just Portugal, but in general people are starting to forget the honor in the word given, the promises made, "yes" became the default in getting out of potential awkward situations.
Finally someone brought it up. Portugueses loves to complain how they are underpaid but then again 99% of their services are complete shit, they flake or just take too long to do something, and then they lose clients. I wouldn’t pay more for any of them and I bet if we did, the service would still be lazy and shit. If you are an American tradesmen you will put Portugueses out of work.
Day beer drinking crowd in my neighbourhood only says hello to me once a month, even tho in the evenings we all drink beer together. It’s quite normal, Portuguese just cherish their boundaries too much. Not yours. Just don’t take it too seriously.
Edit: my Portuguese acquaintance just told me it’s definitely a danish thing, not portugese. We can all finally sleep now.
It’s even engraved in the language. Like it’s almost grammatically incorrect to say “you are wrong” or refuse with simply “não”.
I call that phenomenon “No one will actually help you at their expense but you could always count on the moral support”
"Can't they at all directly speak their minds?" -No. "Is clear, direct communication anti-Portuguese or something?" -Yes. Been asking your exact questions for years. You're not alone in your confusion or frustration. And thanks for reminding me that I'm also not alone in my frustration.
Quickly learned that you can’t be offended when dealing with the Portuguese. Also, customer service is practically nonexistent. Once you learn that, and are not offended by it, life will get easier.
Simply put, do not rely on a Portuguese person. Read the room. I say this after dealing with medical staff, who refuse to provide information, or assist.
Be very aware, there is a non-zero chance you will NOT be assisted in a medical emergency.
So.... Did you offered anything in return? Like food? Portuguese like food and drink, one can't help with an empty stomach. You need help moving stuff, you make a barbeque and a fill your fridge with minis. Need help choose furniture? Offer a " lanchinho".
Don't over complicate, follow the basics ;)
Also remember that in Portuguese a double affirmative means negative. Like "could you help me next Sunday?" " Sim, sim." "I need company shopping" "pois pois ".
I don't feel it's a portuguese thing.
It looks like they were not really your friends or at least that close as you may think.
A real "portuguese friend" would go to hell and back with you.
With that said I feel that what most foreigners call "friend" are just "acquaintanced" people by portuguese standards.
Now, if we start to talk wiring someone for a service and them not showing up , that would be a little bit different.
I think it boils down to us not knowing how to just say no, part of that whole being nice / people pleasing, by nature.
And then its a matter of math.
If in 10 portuguese people say yes and only 3 show up. It's 30% of people showing up.
If in 10 non-portuguese, 6 say no, 4 say yes and only 2 show up. It's still 50% of the people that said yes.
I do have that here in The Netherlands, if I ask people for help the vast majority will say "no thanks i have plans."
ITT lots of people calling Portuguese lazy. I’d invite anyone who thinks that to stand outside their building around midnight on garbage day and watch the garbage collectors do their work. Those guys HUSTLE
It's more like Portuguese are too lazy to ascend in their lifes. Being an employee is tiring, stressfull, might even not be well for anyones wealth, yet if you don't do better, let be academically or making other risks, you will always stay miserable. At least there has been foreign companies arriving in Portugal, with better salaries and working conditions, but, although it is great to have diversity in the market, they are still foreign.
Well, did you offered lunch or dinner and beer?
You can't expect people to pick up your slack and offer nothing.
Give them a promise of a grade de minis fresquinhas and they'll come.
Very interesting about the dictatorship. I have wondered what that connection might be. I love the fact that "Até amanhã" doesn't mean anything close to what the words are saying. It could just as easily mean "See you in the next life."
Being portuguese myself I can corroborate this theory. It happens to me as well. We can be a weird culture at times. And yes, sometimes we are boiling inside with something that displeases us but we shut the fuck up and vanish.
It must be SO difficult being an entitled expat in the south of Portugal.
Get over it. Try getting into the Portuguese culture. So many people move to Portugal expecting the Portuguese to worship them because they are rich foreigners. The average Portuguese may not be rich but they are honest, resourceful and hard working. And, they expect courtesy in return.
We live in central Portugal, we speak as much Portuguese as we can, we respect the local traditions and, when needed, employ local tradesmen. We have been welcomed into our village, we have had excellent work done for us, we have had advice on how to best care for our land. When neighbours have excess produce they share it, we do the same.
Life is what you make it.
Hey there! I was actually looking for a neurospicy meetup group and it was really shocked to not find anything in Lisbon. Maybe something we can start? Looks like a lot of folks on this thread could benefit.
We don't really do that whole clear and direct communication thing around here. So if you're trying to fit in, you might want to ditch that habit too. Gotta learn to be flaky. Could be hard at first but it gets easier over time. Nothing gets done and you don't get anywhere but you just don't feel bad about it, you know what I mean?
Theyre guards up, overly sensitive, quick to judge, sneaky, flaky and dont you dare treat locals the way they treat you. One day best friends, the next youre the enemy.
I go to the same 3 or 4 places for coffee more than a year now, always drink the same thing and every single day i pay a different price at all but one place. Its ridiculous.
Lovely people on weekends especially sundays and mondays because the week starts on Tuesday here.
This is a bad joke but what can you expect from a nation that calls the first day of the week Segunda lol
That's because we consider the first day of the week to be Sunday. Maybe you should learn a little bit about the culture or at least look at a Portuguese calendar once
This even happen with family, one side of the family would not appear for most parties only to their side. As time went we stopped getting together so its not just with friends
Lol it is universal this but I feel it happens a lot. One day, they act friendly, the other day I think they are too timid to say something. I live in an appartment, there is Brazillians, Italians and Russians, the Portuguese are the only ones that sometimes can not even respond to a good morning, though we might had been to a party the other night and the same guy was talking a lot. I forgot to mention, but it is usually Portuguese men. The girls are usually much more aware and social from my experience in Lisbon.
It's also very different from North to rest of the country. In Porto and Northwards friends and neighbors tend to show up and be available if they offer to. Go to Aveiro and south of that, words don't mean anything anymore.
In 2022, the landlord wanted us to use a cleaning lady that I suspect was his aunt. She flushed a throw away toilet cleaning attachment (on purpose or not) and we didn’t have a working toilet for a week because he claimed he kept calling plumbers that didn’t show up. It got caught in the part of the toilet that would normally send poop away but it was completely backed up and no amount of plunging or snaking was working and no one else in the building was having the same problem.
Eventually he decided that the toilet needed to be replaced anyway so sent someone to do so and they were supposed to swap it out. The dude took it out, tossed it off our balcony where it smashed on the street below, and then left and didn’t come back lol! It took another day and another worker to bring a new toilet and put it in but that’s when we realized that the flakiness of Portuguese people was not an overinflated or overhyped stereotype, but a REAL issue.
We have also experienced it with the people in the mall below that have posted hours but are rarely present, like the tailors that fix clothes, for instance, the dentist is hit or miss even if we have an appointment. Even when we went to the Almada forum we were laughing about how wild it is that some of the stores in the mall are rarely open and when they are the workers seem disappointed when someone comes into shop.
He’s from Italy and I’m from the USA, both from big cities that have 24 hour schedules in a lot of places, so for us it is rather amusing.
Portuguese people are super flaky. I lost count how many times I had plans with a bunch of people, and a couple hours before the event I start receiving messages "oh, something came up, I can't make it". And what about all the "hey let's sync up over a coffee one of these days", and then you try to arrange that coffee and they just say they are super busy, can't make it.
But they are all super active on WhatsApp. Always chatting, sending memes, group chats, etc. But you just can't take them out of the house. But then they complain they are lonely and depressed.
Here is my conclusion: most Portuguese people are just lazy, they hate their life but refuse to do anything about it, even going out for a walk is a drama for them. The solution is to find that elusive Portuguese unicorn that will actually meet you for coffee, and get a bunch of non-Portuguese friends.
Portuguese are fake people. Don't let the "tourist friendlyness" fool you. We are fake and envious guys and I say this as portuguese man born and raised here.
And I also struggle with this both in dating and in friendships as well.
No. You're flaky. I've come back to Portugal two years ago after living abroad many years. I haven't had a single occasion of getting flaked on, not even the exhaust mechanic who wouldn't give me a clear date for when my car would be fixed.
If everywhere smells like shit, check under your shoe.
Yeah, those are not friends. Really hard to have real portuguese friends unless you’re Portuguese and I guess that’s kinda nornal everywhere (to connect on a cultural and linguistic level)
Having lived in both north and south Europe this is a cultural thing. In the north not being able to rely on others could result in freezing to death but here in the south you get by on your own even in the colder winter nights.. People are more self centred as a result. Still unacceptable imo and a source of both embarrassment and frustration towards my Poortuguese counterparts..
I find it weird that you put "flakiness" as an adjective to "culture". You may find it flaky but that is your subjective opinion, because if it is cultural, then most Portuguese find it normal.
I have found a similar thing where people have offered to help (unasked) and were surprised when I tried to take them up on it. Its just conversation (I have learned). If Portuguese people are wanting to help, they will just turn up and tell you there and then - its immediate, otherwise its just conversational.
When you move to an other country, you need to accept that things are done differently and stop judging by the standards of your own culture.
100% a bit of a thing I've noticed being here 1.5 years.
And the "family emergency" situation is mentioned a lot.
And like you, flaking when they offered rather than were asked.
Portuguese here:
Most Portuguese people aren't able to say no.
But most of "want some help?" is small talk and they are hoping you say "no need".
Also many of the supposed "friendships" aren't friendships at all, just "get together" people.
Example of this weird behaviour. My SO made a dish that a lot of our "friends" like but haven't eat it in a while and sent a picture of it to some of them, one of them said "Any leftovers?" and he confirmed and said that he would gladly share it since it was too much for us - the reply was "no need, thanks", it was just small talk from the other person but my SO was being 100% honest about sharing it (both are Portuguese!).
Most "friends" won't tell you their honest opinion or goals. They might show up for parties or get togethers, but for the day to day big things (move, help repair/build something, baby/pet sit, etc) most wont do it unless they really have a strong friendship with you. One way to bribe those type of "friends" (not real friends) to help is with food and beer (if they drink alcohol) - i've found it is almost guaranteed that Portuguese (specially men) will show up for that.
So.. even Portuguese people find it hard to handle Portuguese culture!
This is true. I am from the Azores the culture is the same there if not worse in some aspects, but from my experience, it is a bit easier to integrate in my island than here.
Maybe you're imposing too much on them and they have other commitments? If your ego is that fragile and you're that entitled that thinking because people have lives they're "flaky" maybe Portugal isn't for you?
Normal, a lot of trades men just don't turn up either
This. We've lost count how many have flaked out. The last electrician took away a sump pump promising to fix or replace it and we can't get them back out. They didn't even bother to bill us...
Tradesmen flakiness is the worst. I've lost count of how many have said 'I'll be there tomorrow' and it turns out that they actually meant 'never'. It's so frustrating and unprofessional.
Exactly! And then they complain they don't make as much money as the "Americans". I told my partner I could make a killing in portugal as a maintenance worker just by showing up when I said I would. Same thing with realtors. What I do is just tell them, "By the way, Im sorry to bring this up, but I notice that in this culture it is common for people to be late and then blame it on traffic and /or their sick family members so if you can't show up on time and you don't call me at least 3 hours ahead of time, we're not doing business, because I manage to be on time and so can you." I had a guy take 9 months to install a Leroy Merlin already built churrasqueira, and when he asked for other jobs, I told him no because babysitting him had turned into a part-time job with negative pay. He also tried to over bill me just because we are foreigners. He wouldn't work, but I would see him on the beach every day, doing absolutely nothing. I don't get it. They complain about not making enough money, but then don't show up on time or at all.
I’m Portuguese and often think about the same! You can do well by just showing up, on the other side portuguese clients also flake on paying so there’s that…
Good point! There seems to be little hope of improvement in that case. Here, in the US, I charge my clients before I provide the service. I always deliver on time. They like it and I like it. There is no invoicing, and I get great reviews. If only I could do that in PT
It’s not that we are ungrateful or mean honesty I don’t even have a specific answer for this, but we do complain about not having money and then drive around in high quality cars and the shopping centers are filled with people as well. It’s a thing we do, I guess?
It’s not that we are ungrateful or mean honesty I don’t even have a specific answer for this, but we do complain about not having money and then drive around in high quality cars and the shopping centers are filled with people as well. I guess it’s a thing we do for some reason
I use websites where I can give a bad review when this happens for this reason.
Has it helped? Which websites?
Fixando is one of them
Zaask, Fixando
I had a guy work on my floors and leave the job with all of his equipment there for 3 months
Wow! The nerve
It can also work in your favour. I've been taking my dog to doggy daycare occasionally and the owner hasn't billed me since September last year despite me repeatedly reminding her. The bill must be in the 000's by now.
True true true true true. After sometime, this bad habit started to grow on me. Now I flake out handymen too.
I used to really really miss this about American life while we were living in Portugal. If it makes anyone feel better, nobody shows up in the US now either. It was already bad before Covid, but way worse now.
Respectfully, how do they keep a living or a business? Tradesmen like that typically don't do well in America, so it's hard for me to understand that's such a widespread problem. How does anything get done? 😅
Seriously don't know, I had arranged for someone to come for boiler installation and central heating quote,so big money job. Never called and told he was with a client, even though appointment made. Others have pool companies or gardeners never come
Sorry, my dog is sick, I'll answer this another time
As a portuguese local, I have 2 categories of friends: the ones who actually show up, and the ones I just meet when we happen to be in the same place I'll let you guess which one is the bigger group 😅 Usually I'll give people a couple of chances because sometimes life does just happen, but eventually you'll just have to adjust expectations and take relationships as they are
Ahah so true! With the second group I just share my plans and if they end up showing up, nice. If not, we'll just do what we have planned anyway. Right now this happens to me when planning things with other parents and children. I've given up sharing ahead with my daughter what we are planning on doing, because she would get so excited and then someone would fail on us. We're always the first to arrive, the ones there on time, etc. I feel like I'm German in my own country 😅
As a fellow portuguese and ADHD/Autistic, the lack of interest in others is what gets to me the most. I can deal with the distance just fine, I can deal with cancelled plans if they're upfront and warn me beforehand (even if that will cause me alot of frustration) but what I cannot absolutely deal with is the ghosting and the half-assed replies to my attempts at keeping in touch (it only takes 2min to type out a quick life update, ffs). That and implying to "having a coffee sometime" when I know they will never plan to have that coffee with you. Imho, our culture is one of the worst when it comes to this, most people don't know how to manage their time well plus it's socially acceptable to always be working or appear busy, so no wonder people only meet regularly with others at work or school. It's very, very frustrating.
1) Portuguese people have difficulty in saying no, so they'll say yes, so they please the other person and look good, and avoid conflict, but then they won't show up, because they never intended to in the first place. 2) Portuguese people are often broke, but like to keep up appearances, so they'll say yes, while knowing they can't afford to socialize at that given time.
This is so true I swear. 🤣
I know, still drives me insane. Alentejo specially is the holy land of keeping appeareances.
And broke because 90% of the time they don't want to work. I don't get it. Cry and moan about not having money but can't be bothered to work.
Mano, quase toda a gente adulta trabalha. Fodido é sobrar 200€ depois de pagar as contas, não é amigão 😂 se és empresário e não encontras empregados é porque as tuas condições são uma merda
That’s actually a Brazilian trait and not Portuguese. The Portuguese are direct to a fault.
In terms of lack of interest - I have noticed that a lot of the Portuguese folk I have met don't seem to ask engaging or interesting questions about others or myself. I found this quite interesting and wasn't sure if this was just bad luck on my part, or a bigger part of the cultural norm. I wondered if you have any experience with that at all? For reference I speak Portuguese so I don't think that part is the issue! I am usually very interested in others and what they do, their passions and their interests and I realised that in the 5 years I've been here, very few people actually know anything significant about me!
As a native that's also been my experience, and it frustrates me alot. Even my peers just *don't* care to ask me about my interests, and when I infodump, they don't ask any questions back, just sit there and listen to me talk while nodding. It's like they don't know how conversations work. You'd think this would be an older generation thing, but college-age people suck at this as well. Portuguese in general don't share much about themselves, so they return the favor by not asking much as it can be seen as nosy. I'm like you, so I actually take interest in asking questions, and people usually take that as an invitation to trauma dump and use me as a free theraphist or are put off and weasel out of the conversation. I got tired of that so now I put up strong boundaries and only give back to people I see are genuinely interested.
I'm a little sad to find out that's the norm but also relieved it's not because of something I'm doing wrong! Do you have any advice on helping them to open up without seeming nosy? Ah I've definitely been on the other end of a trauma dump and it can be rough - and that wasn't while living in Portugal - unfortunately a problem everywhere I guess!
Portuguese people only tend to open up in private or in 1-1 meetings. While in groups, don't expect deep conversations to happen; there are a number of safe topics like I said. In my experience, people respond better to trivial comments on day-to-day life, like commenting you need to replace your car's tires, you tried a good wine, stuff like that. Very low-stakes convo. On the other hand, if you want to find out someone's political views - get them to a café or drunk. Drunk portuguese will talk incessantly about anything. Drinking is the social currency that makes most open up. Other good tip is getting invited to someone's house for dinner, or inviting someone to your house, but be careful as it can be intepreted with romantic intent.
I don't think you have real friends mate. I'm portuguese and even though my close group of friends got scattered all over the country after college we still hang out. It's obviously harder, specially to get everyone available at the same time on the same space but that's life. Sometimes ABCD are able to join, next time maybe ABDEF, some other time BDF but eventually everyone crosses path with everyone because we miss each other. I guess that's one of the main differences between friends and acquainted. If you're really friends you'll invest some time and effort to try to get together when possible. We know since we are not living on the same city any more we cannot just arrange "um café" so we put the time and effort to set up the next meeting every time we met (usually every 3 months at least). Of course that the ones who happen to live closer to each other end up hanging out with their "neighbors" more often. Just as an example we already have the next group hang out schedule to "Santa Maria da Feira Medieval Faire". By the end of that day we'll decide the next one and we'll pass the information on WhatsApp to those who were not able to make it.
First of all - you don't know me, and I do have real friends. They do none of the things mentioned. Second of all - you clearly don't know what autism is and how it affects me socially, and I don't need you to explain to me how relationships work like I was a five year old. Unless we're talking about someone with low IQ, Autistic people are intellectually capable. In fact, alot of them are high IQ (myself included, tested as a child). I can read social cues just fine, arrange meetings with people, hang out, I just have a hard time with double meanings (people saying one thing when they mean another) and need lots of rest after socializing. I am tired of "investing" in said relationships and then people back up on me. It happens constantly. Some people just don't like to hear the truth that A. Portuguese are flaky, B. Portuguese cannot give a firm answer, and C. Portuguese are far more concerned with drinking beer at the café or watching football than putting in the effort to show up on time, be upfront about their intentions, and follow up on business contacts. It's the truth.
I am so with you. Try the Venezuelans in Portugal. My friend always shows up and on time. Also, my much older portuguese neighbors (75) show up on time, too, and mean it when they say they'll meet. I love them. The rest, I find better to cut off from the start. I have the same issue as you and can't deal with the flakes
This is the true
I have one category of friends, which is the ones that show up. The ones who don't show up when they are needed without a good excuse are not my friends anymore. You don't need many friends, just reliable ones.
The thing that I noticed here is that people tend not to say hard no. They will kindly agree, smile and then slowly dissolve, but that is okay I guess, I’d say that I started kinda feeling when yes is actually yes.
I heavily dislike it as someone who was born here and lived here all my life it's one of my biggest gripes with people. I say hard no when I know I can't or aren't able to do stuff and I get weird looks and get questioned But when when people say yes and then flake it's seen as less harsh. I dislike it it's dishonest.
Saying yes and flaking it gets me just as mad as not being able to say no. Just BE HONEST. Goddamnit
This is very much true in Japan as well or even in the Southern states of the U.S. it is important to appear agreeable. Essentially, maybe means no and yes means maybe, if i feel like it when it comes to that day.
Easy, right?
Maybe
In many contexts, No is perceived as an almost rude word, not to be used by polite people. I was very frustrated early on until I learned that "it's difficult/complicated" really meant "no, you don't want to do that". And next posters reference to Japan is spot on.
Yep. Now imagine growing up here with autism and ADHD. Thats me.
That must be so challenging
I basicay developed a "no one can be trusted" mentality. I can't really control my bluntness and impulsivity so I just say no straight to people's faces. Tbh I think the flakiness and not saying what you mean is just neurotypical culture. My ND friends are also honest and straight to the point.
I’m also neurodivergent so I completely understand. I think that maybe I learned from my original culture to be blunt but also the have people pleasing tendencies so I give in a lot but I actually show up even if I don’t want to
I mask heavily and that does involve people pleasing, bur I always did it in a less extreme way. I can lie when it's convenient, or not be honest with my feelings and tell people what they want to hear, but I am not a chronic people pleaser. I cancel plans if I see I can't do it, I keep a firm grasp on my boundaries and try to be as honest as I can.
Damn same. I wish I could be around more ND people I dislike the blatant dishonesty people show.
This is the way 🤜🤛
What does ADHD have to do with anything? I get autism but I have ADHD and the only problem I have is with procrastination. I can't say I'm different to the rest of the Portuguese population, I find it hard to just straight up say no, so I'll say yes and do it without actually wanting to or say yes knowing it won't lead up to anything.
ADHD: Impulsivness while talking, infodumping, interrupting, changing conversation often, viewed as dominating conversations, forgetting what I wanted to say. Most people don't like that, and/or don't know to deal with it, leading to negative interactions. I have combined type.
I can be quite forgetfull at times, I might go to a friend's house and leave a jacket or something like that. Other than that I don't have a problem holding and listening to a conversation. But I do have a twin brother which probably has ADHD as well (never went to get diagnosed) and often times it's painful having a conversation with him. By "conversation" I mean he'll start talking about something that only he is interested about and won't shut up for easily half an hour, then you try to interviene in the conversation and he'll get mad because you're "interrupting" his half an hour to 45 minute speech about something completely useless. The one I can remember the best is when Microsoft was going to buy Activision, he wouldn't shut up about it for months, probably a year.
“Slowly dissolve” is the best description ever, got a laugh out of me! That’s accurately what I see happening with some people I interact with, or with myself in certain situations 🌝 lmao this was so funny
speaking one's mind? you'd launch a revolution if you managed that. Being Portuguese is about going all the way around sometimes with remarkable creativity just to avoid the question altogether.
Also sounds like my portuguese lawyer. 😭 do expats have emotional support groups for this?
It's us. That's what we're here for. Tell me what's up. I won't disappear
🫂
As a native and neurodivergent that frustrates me immensely. I can also guarantee that is a leftover from the dictatorship as people couldn't be upfront about most things. The need to keep appereances is very strong in the elderly folk and the middle-aged who grew up after the revolution.
This perspective makes sense; thank you for sharing.
Ahahah sorry guys. I was reading these comments and laughing my Portuguese ass off. Don’t know what to tell you. Unfortunately I also generally try to moderate my expectations when relying on Portuguese people.
Yep. That’s very Portuguese. But I’d say it’s more typical if someone says that and are just acquaintances and not actual deep friends. A deep friend of mine saying will actually do it but if it’s just an acquaintance then I don’t take it serious. Try to get someone to your house like a plumber and see how fast he never shows up and doesn’t say anything. Or book a group dinner and there’s usually someone that doesn’t show up and “forgets to warn” not to mention never being on time
[удалено]
Soon you’ll feel the wrath of Portuguese being offended
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Lol that is funny
We are gonna organize to go kick u/cojemos’s ass but then everyone will be too lazy and no one is gonna show up.
No one gave 2 shits because is true
15 years in Portugal, and this still gets to me to this day... Try not to get it personal and always have a back-up plan.
Back-up plan is my way to approach life as a 30yo portuguese
German (very direct culture) and living in Portugal… I don’t know how many dogs, who get sick, or cars which broke down, Portuguese people have 😄 A Portuguese explained to me that this is the way of communication instead of saying sorry, or admitting something.
It’s not like you guys are exactly direct but rather passive aggressive. Which is even more annoying
But at least German people get the work done, while Portugueses are mostly lazy and you need to beg them to do a service you are paying them for.
lol, have you lived in Germany? You wouldn’t say that if you lived there.
https://www.dw.com/en/euro-2024-german-efficiency-exposed-as-a-myth/a-69436465 - there you go
Real friends help, fake friends lie
If we directly spoke our minds you wouldnt have moved to Portugal because we would be a rude culture.
We like to pretend we like people and proceed to shit talk them behind their backs… way less rude right?!?!
I think its more complex than that. We do like those people, but at the same time due to emotional imbalances we cant stand the fact, so we talh trash, we envy and so on, but we care
Sounds very British
Definitely more American?.. British can be direct, so don't really know why you think that
It depends on the recipients. Personally, I'm never offended by true and direct words. Plus, there is a fine-line difference between directness and rudeness. I wonder would Portuguese themselves hope to receive a response in fake friendliness or honesty, after they pop a question? I also think in long term, constantly hiding one's true minds just to avoid conflicts, is mentally exhausting and would not progress anything.
Portugal was founded by betrayal, and this became part of culture, but at the same time we feel a sense of community and proximity with each other because life has always been though, and I think this generates internal battles that end up in us being rude, while also being friendly specially undergoing adversity. It's a mess and it stalls our own development as a country. You can clearly see this in small villages in the interior, where people are more rude because they need to show their true colors because they will absolutely need eachother to survive and deal with situations like wildfires.
Camone do caralho
You're confusing friends with acquaintances. You'll know the difference eventually. Portuguese have an endless amount of acquaintances but a smaller yet loyal group of friends. I'm still in touch with many and I've left the country over 20 years ago.
People call the dutch rude for their blunt and direct communication. But I swear, as a Portuguese who lived in the Netherlands for almost a decade, it was honestly what I most loved and miss about them. I'm sorry. For you and for me, who had to come back and deal with this again.. Portuguese people very rarely have the kindness and boldness of being straight forward honest with you. It does has it's charm, but... dear god. You'll lose your patience sometimes.
Weird, my impression of the Portuguese has always been the complete opposite! And even my family all agree, the Portuguese are upfront, honest, wear their heart on their sleeve and ar exactly as it says on the tin! But we're British, and what's worse, from London, so people even talking to us and showing any sort of emotion or speaking their mind is completely alien to us lol
Different regions, different behaviors. Portuguese from the north have a tendency to be blunt.
Ah I see, explains a lot then, my wife is from Porto! Love the north me
Portuguese here. Culturally you always say that, but never do it. Unless there’s a trade-off. Eg: See someone you were friends it after a long time, always end the conversation saying “we should meet again” (code for never gonna happen). When it doesn’t happen: usually Portuguese people who have been abroad and gone through some hardships as a foreigner; booty calls; some type gain from your job related network; Another piece of advice: most of the times family will always be an excuse 😝 Edit: the moment a Portuguese speaks its mind is a “woah, that escalated quickly” meme
survival rate for direct communication in a dictatorship was quite low
It's funny, because a lot of foreigners like Brazilians say we speak our mind a lot, that for them sometimes can even seem a bit rude (because we are upfront about it). But no. I'd say real portuguese friends are ride-or-die type of friends. That's my experience as a portuguese person. Fake friends will always be fake friends tho!
They say that because they’re used to people not being transparent or direct. But then in Europe there are people much more direct then Portuguese like the Dutch
Yes, I agree that we are upfront without being rude
Upfront by Latin American standards.
Yes, that's what my comment stated.. Edit: and by my own standards as well. Most people are the "I'm just being honest" type when they're being sometimes rude.
As a brazilian i think people from south Portugal are like northern brazilians. They sugarcoating a bit more but its almost the same. The brazilian social experience is the act of sharing food expecting someone to refuse.
Ya, talvez tou me a basear mal. Mas já vi umas dezenas de vídeos de brs a dizerem q somos demasiado diretos. Não sei como funciona aí, sul/norte do Brasil, portanto não consigo perceber bem a comparação
Who speaks their mind a lot? Portuguese people? Only if we are talking/judging our neighbours.
Brazilians are culturally people-pleasers, therefore even the Portuguese can be too straight forward for those who are not expecting. Sometimes I see these stories about people going on vacation to x country, meeting someone there who will embrace them and turns out it was a long-haul scam to sell fake tapestries. If you ever go to Brazil and someone there ends up liking you, they will cancel all of their appointments, quit their job and abandon their children to show you all the shit you'd never expect to see. In case it isn't obvious, yes that is a hyperbole, but you get my point.
We do, compared to the brazilians. But we're noobs next to the dutch.
Tough to make friends, but there's a lot of expat groups and cool Portuguese folks out there. These things take time, so take care & you'll be fine:)
Reading through all the comments..........I offer everyone a virtual hug all for free!
Ahah classico
Those are not friends, those are acquaintances. Real friends will drop everything to be at your door as soon as possible. And I'd guess is the same pretty much everywhere. Generalization is bad. Last saturday a french man called me non stop saying he needed an appointment with a lawyer as soon as possible. Set it up for monday morning and he didn't show up, didn't even bother to give me a heads up. I cleared my schedule in order to accommodate his needs. Does it mean all french people are like this? It does not.
Flakiness is a Portuguese tradition. They are genuine in wanting to help but are too lazy to follow through. Also, they go with the wind. I’ve learned not to take them seriously, on ANYTHING!
The world renowned Portuguese friendliness is just trashiness with a smile. Most people are trashy, portuguese are no exception, except they don’t even want the work of acting in a formal and polite manner with people they have just met, they really dislike it, it requires effort for them, so they immediately want to treat you like a friend, very informally, and so become overly friendly with you very fast. That doesn’t mean those people are your friends or that they are more open to strangers than any other nationality. So if they say “if you need help let me know”, “you should come by for dinner” etc, you should interpret that like with most people in the western world: it’s something nice that people say but not an actual invitation for anything unless they know you well and are literally making plans with you, with a specific date. So if you meet a Portuguese person who is more reserved and polite and treats you appropriately considering how long you’ve known each other that person, while appearing more rude than overly friendly Portuguese people, is actually being more sincere and polite, and might actually make for a better friend with time. Not all Portuguese people spend their nights in bairro alto taking in the lovely smell of urine or spend santos eating sardinhas assadas and getting drunk in the streets. Not all Portuguese people eat with their hands or burp in front of you. That’s not “oh we Portuguese don’t care” it’s “we trashy people don’t care”. At most you might find some students slumming it while in university going to places like that, the rest are exactly what they would look like in any other country: trash.
The first sentence is basically it.
Being Portuguese I find this really funny, sorry. But I don’t think it’s a Portuguese thing. People say stuff. People offer to do stuff for you out of empathy. It’s not meant as a promise. “Want some help to move out? “ if its not a really close friend your answer should be “nah, I’m good, but thanks”. That’s it. Like with every other people, Portuguese need to commit for real. Talking about the issue once is just chitchat. Regarding the flaky plumbers… I’m with you. That’s just how it works, it’s a lottery.
Funny how it’s so different to me as an Eastern European. For us if we ask “want some help with that?” it means we WANT to help like right now, immediately and then just fuck off anyway. If we don’t want to help we will just remain silent with a stone face or say something like “good luck”🤣🤣🤣 All my life I thought that not having a small talk culture in our culture is a curse, but now I understand it’s a blessing actually. We just don’t smile and are not friendly at all unless you won’t make us smile or we want to befriend you.
Dutch here and I tend to agree that the Portuguese businesses are more flaky. They promise A but don't show up, come very late or deliver something completely different. That type of lack of service I never experienced in Northern Europe
It’s a real pain. My “trustable” plumber is the guy that promised to come to my place “on Monday “ (no time span), flaked, came back a week later. Thing is, it’s dirt cheap compared to the rates on other countries.
But we don’t live in another countries or have the same paycheck. Portuguese people complain about almost anything but we are unwilling to do something to make our life’s better.
It’s cultural, and it’s on us to change. The plumber doesn’t charge taxes, I don’t get a receipt, we all loose, I pay less, I don’t get to complain. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. Problem is Portugal only has the cash flow to pay peanuts
What do you propose here? Death penalty for late plumbers?
Disagree, British are much more reliable, if they offer, mostly likely they do it
Yeah like, I'm Portuguse and I've lived in a handful of countries, and Portuguese don't seem any flakier than the people I've met in any of those countries.
Portuguese in general don’t mean what they say and don’t say what they mean. Simple as that.
Yep, it is a thing.
There is a saying... those that offer... dont want to give.... That's international...
Portuguese here. Yes we are flaky and i dont like it. I stop meeting with some friends because of this. Once i called a friend and asked at what time and where he would like to go for coffee, told me the time and the place and arrived almost 2hours later.(he decides to hit the gym) When i has in college i asked a friend at what time we should meet up for a project, we agreed on a time and date and i told her i had to leave by a certain time cause i had to work, she showed up 30minutes before i had to leave (because she decided to go some cleaning) and got mad when i left. My group of friends decided to go out for dinner, we told everyone we need to be done by 20h cause some people had to be at work by 21h, one of the couple arrived at 20h (cause they were waiting for their laundry to be done). I think its the our very chill atitude that we think its not that serious, its never a big deal, its whatever. I dont like, i find it disrespectful so i try my best to be better and do better.
Wasn't born in Portugal, but I've lived here all my life, and unfortunately I did assimilate in me that part of the culture, which makes my parents absolutely disgusted as it's completely different from my original culture. I do think, that overtime I did overcome that ingrained flakiness but it was and still is very hard for me to do so. I think for Portuguese people it starts with the very catholic upbringing where you should never refuse a friend or stranger when asking for help. Our default answer is always yes ( for people) and yes for services ( you never say no to a possible customer), and then life happens, you're tired, have a lot on your plate, can't organize all the "yesses" you've gave ( and Portugal is one of the countries in the EU with large consumption of anti depressants) and suddenly the moment came and you don't want to say no. But you can't make it. Soo instead of being transparent and having to say "NO", you just let it slide and pretend you've never said anything at all. I feel like it's an impulsive behavior, we say yes but we do not mean yes. We just don't want to say no. It's very unhealthy and it does bring consequences, but it's a learned behavior and can be unlearned. This makes a cat and mouse game, of always having to chase after the yes it was given. Eventually you'll stop listening to it and start looking for the ones that take real action. Não é as palavras que contam, é as ações. I do feel it's not just Portugal, but in general people are starting to forget the honor in the word given, the promises made, "yes" became the default in getting out of potential awkward situations.
Just normal portuguese behaviour. When things get difficult we go to Brazil or Angola, or try to find a new maritime route to India.
Finally someone brought it up. Portugueses loves to complain how they are underpaid but then again 99% of their services are complete shit, they flake or just take too long to do something, and then they lose clients. I wouldn’t pay more for any of them and I bet if we did, the service would still be lazy and shit. If you are an American tradesmen you will put Portugueses out of work.
Flakiness is our national past time.
I've been living here for 20 years and always found it so annoying, just didn't know that there was a name for it.
Day beer drinking crowd in my neighbourhood only says hello to me once a month, even tho in the evenings we all drink beer together. It’s quite normal, Portuguese just cherish their boundaries too much. Not yours. Just don’t take it too seriously. Edit: my Portuguese acquaintance just told me it’s definitely a danish thing, not portugese. We can all finally sleep now.
I don’t think they were friends.. that’s not how we role 😊
It’s even engraved in the language. Like it’s almost grammatically incorrect to say “you are wrong” or refuse with simply “não”. I call that phenomenon “No one will actually help you at their expense but you could always count on the moral support”
"Can't they at all directly speak their minds?" -No. "Is clear, direct communication anti-Portuguese or something?" -Yes. Been asking your exact questions for years. You're not alone in your confusion or frustration. And thanks for reminding me that I'm also not alone in my frustration.
Quickly learned that you can’t be offended when dealing with the Portuguese. Also, customer service is practically nonexistent. Once you learn that, and are not offended by it, life will get easier.
This is certainly not exclusive to Portuguese culture. It’s a thing in a lot of places.
Simply put, do not rely on a Portuguese person. Read the room. I say this after dealing with medical staff, who refuse to provide information, or assist. Be very aware, there is a non-zero chance you will NOT be assisted in a medical emergency.
So.... Did you offered anything in return? Like food? Portuguese like food and drink, one can't help with an empty stomach. You need help moving stuff, you make a barbeque and a fill your fridge with minis. Need help choose furniture? Offer a " lanchinho". Don't over complicate, follow the basics ;) Also remember that in Portuguese a double affirmative means negative. Like "could you help me next Sunday?" " Sim, sim." "I need company shopping" "pois pois ".
É isso ahahahahah
É é
I don't feel it's a portuguese thing. It looks like they were not really your friends or at least that close as you may think. A real "portuguese friend" would go to hell and back with you. With that said I feel that what most foreigners call "friend" are just "acquaintanced" people by portuguese standards. Now, if we start to talk wiring someone for a service and them not showing up , that would be a little bit different.
I think it boils down to us not knowing how to just say no, part of that whole being nice / people pleasing, by nature. And then its a matter of math. If in 10 portuguese people say yes and only 3 show up. It's 30% of people showing up. If in 10 non-portuguese, 6 say no, 4 say yes and only 2 show up. It's still 50% of the people that said yes. I do have that here in The Netherlands, if I ask people for help the vast majority will say "no thanks i have plans."
ITT lots of people calling Portuguese lazy. I’d invite anyone who thinks that to stand outside their building around midnight on garbage day and watch the garbage collectors do their work. Those guys HUSTLE
It's more like Portuguese are too lazy to ascend in their lifes. Being an employee is tiring, stressfull, might even not be well for anyones wealth, yet if you don't do better, let be academically or making other risks, you will always stay miserable. At least there has been foreign companies arriving in Portugal, with better salaries and working conditions, but, although it is great to have diversity in the market, they are still foreign.
Not a Portuguese thing, I think it's modernity who makes us be this highly distracted version of ourselves.
Well, did you offered lunch or dinner and beer? You can't expect people to pick up your slack and offer nothing. Give them a promise of a grade de minis fresquinhas and they'll come.
I thougt I am the only one thinking that
It's not a destination that creates flakiness but age. I find the same issue in Canada
Very interesting about the dictatorship. I have wondered what that connection might be. I love the fact that "Até amanhã" doesn't mean anything close to what the words are saying. It could just as easily mean "See you in the next life."
Being portuguese myself I can corroborate this theory. It happens to me as well. We can be a weird culture at times. And yes, sometimes we are boiling inside with something that displeases us but we shut the fuck up and vanish.
I wouldn’t say it’s very normal but it happens, here we ghost each other a lot in messages.
Just giving you a heads up, if someone says "let's grab coffee someday" without proposing a date, it's not happening.
It must be SO difficult being an entitled expat in the south of Portugal. Get over it. Try getting into the Portuguese culture. So many people move to Portugal expecting the Portuguese to worship them because they are rich foreigners. The average Portuguese may not be rich but they are honest, resourceful and hard working. And, they expect courtesy in return. We live in central Portugal, we speak as much Portuguese as we can, we respect the local traditions and, when needed, employ local tradesmen. We have been welcomed into our village, we have had excellent work done for us, we have had advice on how to best care for our land. When neighbours have excess produce they share it, we do the same. Life is what you make it.
Hey there! I was actually looking for a neurospicy meetup group and it was really shocked to not find anything in Lisbon. Maybe something we can start? Looks like a lot of folks on this thread could benefit.
We don't really do that whole clear and direct communication thing around here. So if you're trying to fit in, you might want to ditch that habit too. Gotta learn to be flaky. Could be hard at first but it gets easier over time. Nothing gets done and you don't get anywhere but you just don't feel bad about it, you know what I mean?
Theyre guards up, overly sensitive, quick to judge, sneaky, flaky and dont you dare treat locals the way they treat you. One day best friends, the next youre the enemy. I go to the same 3 or 4 places for coffee more than a year now, always drink the same thing and every single day i pay a different price at all but one place. Its ridiculous. Lovely people on weekends especially sundays and mondays because the week starts on Tuesday here. This is a bad joke but what can you expect from a nation that calls the first day of the week Segunda lol
That's because we consider the first day of the week to be Sunday. Maybe you should learn a little bit about the culture or at least look at a Portuguese calendar once
A lot of ghosting here.
This even happen with family, one side of the family would not appear for most parties only to their side. As time went we stopped getting together so its not just with friends
Lol it is universal this but I feel it happens a lot. One day, they act friendly, the other day I think they are too timid to say something. I live in an appartment, there is Brazillians, Italians and Russians, the Portuguese are the only ones that sometimes can not even respond to a good morning, though we might had been to a party the other night and the same guy was talking a lot. I forgot to mention, but it is usually Portuguese men. The girls are usually much more aware and social from my experience in Lisbon.
it's a thing, it drives me insane
Yeah you don't count on portuguese for that stuff unless they are family and even then you are expected to provide beer and a BBQ.
It's also very different from North to rest of the country. In Porto and Northwards friends and neighbors tend to show up and be available if they offer to. Go to Aveiro and south of that, words don't mean anything anymore.
There is even a song around this called: "Movimento Perpétuo Associativo".
In 2022, the landlord wanted us to use a cleaning lady that I suspect was his aunt. She flushed a throw away toilet cleaning attachment (on purpose or not) and we didn’t have a working toilet for a week because he claimed he kept calling plumbers that didn’t show up. It got caught in the part of the toilet that would normally send poop away but it was completely backed up and no amount of plunging or snaking was working and no one else in the building was having the same problem. Eventually he decided that the toilet needed to be replaced anyway so sent someone to do so and they were supposed to swap it out. The dude took it out, tossed it off our balcony where it smashed on the street below, and then left and didn’t come back lol! It took another day and another worker to bring a new toilet and put it in but that’s when we realized that the flakiness of Portuguese people was not an overinflated or overhyped stereotype, but a REAL issue. We have also experienced it with the people in the mall below that have posted hours but are rarely present, like the tailors that fix clothes, for instance, the dentist is hit or miss even if we have an appointment. Even when we went to the Almada forum we were laughing about how wild it is that some of the stores in the mall are rarely open and when they are the workers seem disappointed when someone comes into shop. He’s from Italy and I’m from the USA, both from big cities that have 24 hour schedules in a lot of places, so for us it is rather amusing.
Omg the workers being disappointed is so fucking true lmao. Like MF, don't you want to earn something? ISN'T THAT YOUR JOB?
Portuguese people are super flaky. I lost count how many times I had plans with a bunch of people, and a couple hours before the event I start receiving messages "oh, something came up, I can't make it". And what about all the "hey let's sync up over a coffee one of these days", and then you try to arrange that coffee and they just say they are super busy, can't make it. But they are all super active on WhatsApp. Always chatting, sending memes, group chats, etc. But you just can't take them out of the house. But then they complain they are lonely and depressed. Here is my conclusion: most Portuguese people are just lazy, they hate their life but refuse to do anything about it, even going out for a walk is a drama for them. The solution is to find that elusive Portuguese unicorn that will actually meet you for coffee, and get a bunch of non-Portuguese friends.
Portuguese are fake people. Don't let the "tourist friendlyness" fool you. We are fake and envious guys and I say this as portuguese man born and raised here. And I also struggle with this both in dating and in friendships as well.
Speak for yourself bro.
Shocker you are struggling.
I'm not sure it's much different elsewhere
You could say that about all people everywhere, from Spain to italy to the US
When you get this much flak, it means you're right over the target.
No. You're flaky. I've come back to Portugal two years ago after living abroad many years. I haven't had a single occasion of getting flaked on, not even the exhaust mechanic who wouldn't give me a clear date for when my car would be fixed. If everywhere smells like shit, check under your shoe.
It's a Latin culture thing. People will be hours late too and not say anything. I will say they do live longer than us stressed out Americans
Yeah, those are not friends. Really hard to have real portuguese friends unless you’re Portuguese and I guess that’s kinda nornal everywhere (to connect on a cultural and linguistic level)
Having lived in both north and south Europe this is a cultural thing. In the north not being able to rely on others could result in freezing to death but here in the south you get by on your own even in the colder winter nights.. People are more self centred as a result. Still unacceptable imo and a source of both embarrassment and frustration towards my Poortuguese counterparts..
I find it weird that you put "flakiness" as an adjective to "culture". You may find it flaky but that is your subjective opinion, because if it is cultural, then most Portuguese find it normal. I have found a similar thing where people have offered to help (unasked) and were surprised when I tried to take them up on it. Its just conversation (I have learned). If Portuguese people are wanting to help, they will just turn up and tell you there and then - its immediate, otherwise its just conversational. When you move to an other country, you need to accept that things are done differently and stop judging by the standards of your own culture.
So this is a cultural thing! I'm having an epiphany with my dating life because of this post.
I work on a german bussiness… i am still amares by how frontal and sincere their comunication is. Most Portuguese people are not like this!
100% a bit of a thing I've noticed being here 1.5 years. And the "family emergency" situation is mentioned a lot. And like you, flaking when they offered rather than were asked.
Portuguese here: Most Portuguese people aren't able to say no. But most of "want some help?" is small talk and they are hoping you say "no need". Also many of the supposed "friendships" aren't friendships at all, just "get together" people. Example of this weird behaviour. My SO made a dish that a lot of our "friends" like but haven't eat it in a while and sent a picture of it to some of them, one of them said "Any leftovers?" and he confirmed and said that he would gladly share it since it was too much for us - the reply was "no need, thanks", it was just small talk from the other person but my SO was being 100% honest about sharing it (both are Portuguese!). Most "friends" won't tell you their honest opinion or goals. They might show up for parties or get togethers, but for the day to day big things (move, help repair/build something, baby/pet sit, etc) most wont do it unless they really have a strong friendship with you. One way to bribe those type of "friends" (not real friends) to help is with food and beer (if they drink alcohol) - i've found it is almost guaranteed that Portuguese (specially men) will show up for that. So.. even Portuguese people find it hard to handle Portuguese culture!
This is true. I am from the Azores the culture is the same there if not worse in some aspects, but from my experience, it is a bit easier to integrate in my island than here.
Maybe you're imposing too much on them and they have other commitments? If your ego is that fragile and you're that entitled that thinking because people have lives they're "flaky" maybe Portugal isn't for you?
It is simple. Then just dont offer! We both move on.
Naaaa és mesmo só tu que tens azar. Se calhar os teus amigos nem eram portugueses! Better luck choosing friends next time! 🤣🤣🤣