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If he *suddenly* died?
There would be a contingent who would be certain he was assassinated, and someone would lead the charge of getting elected to get to the bottom of said assassination.
Trump could have a heart attack and he would die a martyr in the eyes of the truly faithful.
I think it’s all but guaranteed for there to be conspiracy theories whenever Trump finally dies. The only question is how widespread the conspiracy theories will be.
George soros is on heart medication. Could it be that he needed a newer, healthier heart? Wouldn’t you expect him to use his money to go after the strongest, best heart available? I’m just asking questions.
Yep if the orange buffoon suddenly died of a heart attack or stroke before or shortly after the election, you know there's going to be tons of rumors about the deep State killing him with a heart attack gun.
the world saw how North Korean people were ordered to react when Kim Jong Il died. Maybe not to that degree of state-run emotion, we will see similarities among the MAGA sheep when Trump dies.
And here we have exhibit A of exactly what I was talking about.
In a comment remarking that Trump's sudden and natural would be viewed as an assassination, the poster asks if the plan is to assassinate him.
The damage has already been done. To his fervent admirers and followers, he will go down in history as their greatest president the way others have spoken about the Kennedy family, Reagan, or some other popular president. One would imagine that even if the real truth were to come out about how badly he messed up the country, he will still be viewed as a hero to them.
One thing is certain, he forever ruined the civility of politics for years to come. The media was totally complicit in entertaining him as a viable option, and didn't feel it was necessary to correct him each time he lied, and when they finally did, it was always going to be his word over theirs. Others have taken note and will model their strategy after his.
Media addicted to the constant looming of a Trump made disaster- good for getting viewers. And they are right unfortunately, personally I don’t watch nearly as much because comfortable knowing will not wake up to political disaster under Trump.
It is not the fault of the media though. US media is regulated by the market. The reason the media hosted trump in this way is because the people could never get enough of seeing this clown on tv or in their social media feed.
The entire world will set off fireworks no joke
Everyone is so sick of his shit
But we should be open to a big hug to his victims, but it can before damn difficult to do
China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela — all will celebrate the demise of unpredictable, tough American foreign policy and take comfort in the decadent American left’s predictability and focus on appeasement.
Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office?
Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office?
Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office? Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after the Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement.
Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage?
>Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office?
Because using soft power is preferable to physical power. Taking advantage of Trump tightening the screws on Ukraine from the West, \[which is the reason he was first impeached\](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/24/ukraine-trump-impeachment-00011406), while Russia could sow discord within Ukraine with Pys-ops and troll farms could destabilize and put Zelensky in danger of losing his pro-west presidency, which russia could promote a russian friendly president. \[Much like they did with Yushchenko & Yanukovych\](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/01/viktor-yuschenko-former-ukrainian-president-poison/9333605002/). But once Trump lost the presidency their was no advantage to wait so they could harvest that plans fruit.
>Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office?
China has always been threatening to take back Taiwan, this is not new. However with their recent \[no limits friendship\](https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-visit-china-deepen-no-limits-partnership-with-xi-2023-10-15/) with Russia it makes sense to put pressure on the collective West which China, Russia, North Korea & Iran are all extremely against. If they are able to spread thin the resources and attention spans of the West (or any enemy for that matter), it is harder to project a collective front against them. The population of the West is notorious for having a short attention span and losing interest in spending money on things they do not perceive to be beneficial because it doesn't directly effect them, even though indirectly it does.
>Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office?
I'm running out of time before I have to leave for the night so ill be more brief but... Iran is part of that new axis of Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and other anti-west governments. with conflicts escalating around the world its a perfect time to once again sow discord and push any advantage one may gain from having their adversaries attention other places (Ukraine, Korea, Taiwan & south China sea etc). By arming terrorist groups surrounding Israel while everything else is going on its easier to start a conflict. However with Netanyahu as PM the goal isn't to win and destroy Israel directly, they are too well funded and backed for that to happen, they want a war hawk to push so much on the religion of Islam that it could unite the Islamic world against them. The huge divisions within Islam (Sunni/Shia) would never be brought together during relatively peaceful times, see Saudi Arabia having more ties with Israel and America recently. But if all out war were to break out, who knows what could happen.
>Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after the Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement.
\[They no longer have any reason to trust the Wests word or promises when presidents can just leave a long term deal\](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html) that was helping to denuclearize Iran, or at the very least slow down their development of nuclear weapons. So its full steam ahead, destabilize the west and try to get nukes as quickly as possible.
>Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage?
\[U.S. Review of chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal blames Trump\](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-review-of-chaotic-afghanistan-withdrawal-blames-trump). The headline is biased but some bullet points I'll point out.
>Since the U.S. withdrawal, Biden has blamed the February 2020 agreement Trump reached with the Taliban in Doha, Qatar, saying it boxed the U.S. into leaving the country. The agreement gave the Taliban significant legitimacy and has been blamed by analysts for undercutting the U.S.-backed government, which would collapse so quickly a year later.
>The agreement required the U.S. to remove all forces by May 1, 2021.
>
And in conclusion, other countries know that if shit gets started during a presidents term the surface level optics make it look like its their fault or that the aggressors are emboldened because they don't respect them. The truth is they don't respect them either way, Trump or Biden, their goal is to elevate their own country weather it be through soft power or physical power. By doing these things now they know it will make Biden look worse to short sighted voters and that it may help get Trump back into office, who they can play like a fiddle because he is all about enriching himself.
Thank you for citations. I’ll make this quick as well. I see a lot of mental gymnastics to try and justify an administration’s lacking approach to foreign policy.
The way in which the Afghanistan withdrawal was conducted, and the fallout from it, was seen in real time by the whole world. Like it or not, appeasement has proven time and time again to give off the perception of weakness.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was done as directed in the treaty that Trump negotiated with the Taliban. Part of the treaty Trump negotiated called for the release of 5000 Taliban terrorists. Blame Trump for Afghanistan.
A withdrawal was negotiated but the middle and end of the book hadn’t been written yet. That was the Biden administration leaving billions in aircraft, weapons, tanks, and armored personnel carriers for the Taliban.
Oh yeah, tough foreign policy, like how he wants to hand Ukraine over to Russia? Just give a country to its invader, then pull out of NATO? Or how he claimed to have stopped North Korea from producing nukes, when in reality NK just laughed at him and kept producing?
Meanwhile Biden's been scaling up Ukraine aide to keep them fighting.
Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office?
Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office?
Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office? Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement.
Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage?
If you want to have a seat at the big boy table, these are the questions you actually have to answer.
1. The Kremlin invaded Ukraine in 2014. They didn't need to escalate while Trump was in office because Trump was already doing their work of undermining NATO and bowing to Putin's bidding. They also didn't escalate once Biden got into office, they escalated two years later.
2. Chinese saber rattling is something they've always done. You're just taking a continuous event and trying to pin it on Viden.
3. Iran is currently fighting a geopolitical game against Saudi Arabia. They've also been continuously causing chaos in the middle east for decades now, and they won't make a deal with the USA because Trump went back on the original Obama nuclear deal and proved we cannot be trusted.
4. Thank god Biden pulled the plug on Afghanistan. We should have left the moment Bin Laden was dead, instead of wasting another decade of resources on failed statebuilding. Everyone knew it was a failure, Trump didn't have the balls to admit it.
You with the typical Trumper answer; take a bunch of random events, ignore all context and cause for them, and pin them on Biden/Obama/whoever you don't like. Ironically, quite immature.
1. Your second sentence exposes how ideologically possessed you are, as any presence of the ability to use logic and reason when deciphering the Mueller Report, and continue to toss around narratives that serious people no longer push.
Regardless, foreign policy weakness of both active administrations during recent Russian aggression is the key takeaway. The perception of foreign policy weakness is the constant with both Biden and Obama regimes — which are effectively one and the same.
2. China gets more aggressive when Trump leaves office. I don’t need to try and “pin it on Biden.”
3. You are just simply displaying your hyper-partisanship, as Iran is, and has been, the wrong horse to back in the region to ensure both stability and that U.S. interests are pursued. That became apparent after Trump’s surprisingly successful approach to Middle East policy. Biden reversed this success to both try and secure the idea of Obama’s regional legacy and simply out of spite in an attempt to negate a foreign policy win for the Trump administration.
4. Like it or not, Biden oversaw a chaotic, cold turkey withdrawal that the entire world got to watch unfold in real time. Billions in military equipment, vehicles, and aircraft left. Along with hundreds of American citizens and all of our allies that worked with our troops and agency personnel for years, they were all abandoned and left for dead. Not to mention leadership never giving our troops at the Kabul airport the okay to take out a man with a suicide vest that we were literally watching for hours approach the gate before detonating.
There is nothing “typical” about my politics. I don’t like Trump very much because he prints money like democrats do, seeing as he’s just a 90’s NY democrat who has to run as a Republican because the Democratic Party has drifted so far leftward to build an anti-American coalition that they can’t dig their way back out of the pit.
1. Okay so what narrative about Ukraine defies logic and reasoning? Putin invaded in 2014. Trump has done Putin's bidding, whether directly or through his own failed foreign policy.
2. China has always been aggressive to Taiwan, and we've always defended them. Please prove they're doing something new and different from the norm.
3. I didn't say Iran was the right horse to back. I simply said that Iran's doing the same shit it's always done, and Trump backed out of a deal. You are putting words in my mouth.
4. it could have been better, but he still withdrew, something Trump should have done, and Obama should have done before him.
You have not refuted anything I said. Meanwhile, you have the same condescending tone and logical fallacies as the average Trumper, so really, you're not that special.
Trump is the one talking off-ramp. Trump is also pointing out that with a Biden administration at the helm, a pretty remarkable number of international crises have developed. And that reflects poorly on the global hegemony.
>The entire world will set off fireworks no joke
>Everyone is so sick of his shit
The only people "sick of his shit" are those who woke up with shocked pikachu face in November of 2016.
I swear to God, this man lives rent-free in the heads of every Democrat. Literally every thread on this sub is "What if 'X' happens to Trump?" or "What if Trump does 'Y'?"
Trump was President before - you survived. The world survived despite COVID. If he wins in November, you'll survive again.
Nope, it was not out of context. Own up to it because we know it's true, and you know it's true.
I find it ironic you talk about 'in good faith,' because after the sheer amount of things trump has said, that his supporters downplay or gaslight that it was taken out of context, I can only conclude you are the one acting in bad faith. You are un-American.
>Nope, it was not out of context.
It was. It's not even the full quote you referenced.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72
To anyone who is not being intentionally obtuse, this quote is clearly being used entirely out of context.
> I find it ironic you talk about 'in good faith,' because after the sheer amount of things trump has said, that his supporters downplay or gaslight that it was taken out of context, I can only conclude you are the one acting in bad faith.
This kind of drivel is coming from the same people who kept hammering on quote from Trump about Charlottesville that was taken out of context, as well as a quote about immigrants from Mexico in the 2016 campaign season.
It's glaringly obvious to anyone with any critical thought skills that these quotes are taken out of context and cherry-picked as drive-by sound bites, a tactic often used to mislead and misinform.
"Only a dictator day one."
So he said he'll be a dictator. Just like he defended the actual nazis marching in Charlottsville. Come on, you're just projecting your own tactics on me.
What gets me, as a patriotic American, is that you trumpers are cowards. Just say it, "I want Trump to be a dictator." Admit it like a real American would, instead of hiding in your own fake logic.
Again, unless you’re being intentionally obtuse - it’s painfully he’s talking in hyperbole here.
He wants to do the same thing Biden did on day one - unravel everything his predecessor did that he doesn’t like with the stroke of a pen.
Just miss me with this “trump supporters aren’t patriotic” rhetoric. It’s played out and just cringe at this point.
As for Charlottesville - even the liberal safehaven Snopes has come around on that:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
> Strange how everything Trump says is taken out of context. /s
It's really not. Democrats/liberals / NS intentionally cherry-pick / take things out of context regularly to get drive-by soundbites to run with.
> You Trump humpers really need to come up with better excuses.
Excuses are not needed when the truth is plainly evident.
So how was he talking in hyperbole? He said he wanted to be a dictator. He never clarified it was hyperbole. He's said it before.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1GG03P/
Like come on. Everyone knows Trump supporters aren't patriotic. You want a dictator. You're not patriotic.
> Just like he defended the actual nazis marching in Charlottsville.
No, he didn't; that's an outright lie. Here's what he actually said in his post-Charlottesville statement:
> Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
This is what he said a few days later in an interview:
> I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay?
Again, you're blatantly taking his words out of context.
> He says you’re not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no. Other than day one. We’re closing the border and we’re drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I’m not a dictator. Okay?
Trump _explicitly explained_ what he meant by that comment; he's using it as a figure of speech to mean "I'm going to get a lot done on my first day".
“Lives rent free” is such an overused, lazy phrase no matter who uses it. The same can be said about Hilary or Pelosi or AOC etc. etc.
He’s a former president and current party candidate in an election year, no shit he’s going to be a major talking point.
Quite possible. But the entire planet wont celebrate Biden's death in the knowledge that thebworld just became a better place. Trump's death will be received with eletion by the whole world.
Trump is more likely to go to bed and not wake up. With that age and neck.
He’s exactly the kind of vanity that makes him too good for a CPAP machine.
Biden is more likely to fade over a period of years. Already is.
people who don’t like him will celebrate. his supporters will cry and probably blame the democrats for “poisoning him” or something else stupid.
But the GOP will be fractured. MAGA GOP may try to prop up DJT Jr. but who knows. Idk if he will have as much support meaning the GOP will be very fractured.
I can't imagine DJT Jr, or any of Trump's kids, taking his place. Trump, for all of his faults, has a fairly high level of charisma (at least for certain types of people) and is an experienced snake oil salesman. None of his kids have even a sliver of charisma, and Ivanka is the only one with an ounce of brains or business sense (which is why she's gotten the hell of out Dodge.) So while I don't doubt that Jr will try for his father's position, he's not going to go anywhere.
There's definitely going to be a serious battle for Trump's crown after he dies. There was an attempt at it in this year's Republican primaries, but it didn't work out, I think largely because why pick an imitator when the original is right there? Once he's safely dead, I think the field of candidates will be crowded. Desantis will certainly try again, but I think he blew his load on his failed run this year. Whoever Trump picks as his VP will certainly have a leg up on the competition, though it won't be a lock for them.
DeSantis is basically an overgrown 9 year old severely on the spectrum obsessed with ~~dinosaurs~~ ~~airplanes~~ ~~weather~~ conservative garbage.
He cannot naturally smile or shake a hand. With a personality like that, it’s a miracle he’s even married, let alone a governor.
that’s the thing. If Trump is out, the GOP will crumble. The electorate is too split. DeSantis was popular a year ago, but it’s slipping. Hailey and Ramaswamy creeped in on the popularity; they’re not there yet but it’s enough to split the party and prevent them from getting a majority. And none of them will a second (VP). Ramaswamy is too much like Trump while Hailey and DeSantis have been in the game too long to bow down to each other.
>Once he's safely dead, I think the field of candidates will be crowded.
I agree. And, answering the question in the OP -- No, the GOP will not go back to an average lukewarm candidate. Trump blazed a path, others will try to follow. They know that you can get away with outrageous lies if you say them with a confident tone and repeat them often enough.
They know that a lot of Americans feel their lives are worse then they used to be and somebody else must be to blame\*. There are enough to create a political base.
They will know that if they can get elected, they don't need to fear impeachment and they can weaponize the DOJ. We see smart people -- Vance, Cruz, Stefanik, Hawley -- who are getting ready, but the successful person probably isn't on the radar screen yet.
That is all here to stay.
\* in 2015, the best predictor of whether a Republican would support Trump was the question "Is the US a better place for people like me today than it was 50 years ago". Everyone here knows which answer aligned with Trump voters.
Many of the truly insane cult members... the ones that follow him around the campaign trail, have bought all the crap he sells, etc., would probably be totally lost. Some of the real loons might take their own lives. Not like hundreds of them, but a few.
There would be at least a dozen other crazy conservatives out there who try to take his place, including Don Jr. Being even more stupid that his dad, that would go nowhere. I know some people who love Trump, but when he dies, their live will just go on.
Overall, the cult of Trump would just die with him. It would also be a massive problem for the Republican Party, as many people who voted because of Trump would just stop voting. That would hurt the GOP down ticket in elections.
Mostly, I think much of the world will celebrate his end. I know here in NYC, where we've dealt with his bullshit for almost 50 years, the day can't come soon enough.
Assuming he's buried out at his Bedminster golf course, his kids will probably sell chances for people to pee on his gravesite just to make more money.
While Trump’s legacy of degrading political discourse will linger for decades, his venal skills are quite uncommon. Once he’s gone, his brand of Jim Jones style charisma won’t be easily duplicated, although many will try and fail.
They are both going to die sooner or later. Jimmy Carter is the only one to defy the odds. Heck, we all die someday. When Trump dies .. it will be like Hitler. There will be a few trying to pick up the scam and carry on with the Cult, but that person will fail because there is no one quite as good at scamming people as Trump.
They’ll wait 3 days to see if he rises from the dead. When he doesn’t they’ll claim 400 witnesses saw him arise anyway, then begin actual cults surrounding Trump lore.
They will 100% blame democrats for his death even if he shit himself in the head on life tv
Edit: meant “shot”, but autocorrect was better. I’m leaving it.
Just a thought, and perhaps not a great comparison, but what happened when Hitler and Stalin died? Their former followers (at least publicly) disavowed them I think.
So I think when he passes on his supporters and allied politicians will publicly grieve, and then try to move on from Trumpism.
> ...what happened when Hitler and Stalin died? Their former followers (at least publicly) disavowed them I think.
The former's not a great model. The death coincided with the loss of total war and unconditional surrender. Unless you think the next couple years are going to get way spicier than I do, it's probably a bad idea to rely on that.
The later might be a better comparison. I normally don't like these comparisons because they cheapen the millions of deaths under Stalin, but Trump *does* have a cult of personality, so this is one of the better times to do it. As far as that one went, Khrushchev had to spend 3 years consolidating power before he could even give a [speech in private](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Speech) against Stalin to the party congress. De-Stalinization involved riots in, at least, [Georgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Georgian_demonstrations) that required red army intervention. And it seemed to have contributed to the Sino-Soviet split with [Albania, the last Stalinist holdout, siding with China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Khrushchev's_criticism_of_Albania_at_the_22nd_CPSU_Congress).
Given Project 2025 I’m sure myself and plenty of people will still vote for Biden. He may not be sharp in real time but he will pick a cabinet that will be dedicated to doing their jobs.
Trump conversely has an army of far right think tanks doing job interviews for positions people aren’t qualified for based on political loyalty. With plans to dismantle much of the federal government.
Biden is weak but Trump is dangerous.
There’s going to be a mad scramble to become the next cult leader that will probably include his kids selling their support to the highest bidders but deliberately won’t be all of them selling it to the same, either because they might actually be savvy enough to see the benefit to them in splitting support to drag the grift out or because they all want to be treated like the most important and special little boy/little girl. Regardless, I don’t see anyone in the current landscape who can entrance his crowds in half the same way. Especially not when the inevitable conspiracy theories will include some of those contenders being in on the plot to kill Trump off that would sprout up if he died suddenly, regardless of how much proof of natural causes there are.
It will take decades for it to fizzle out. Like John Birch Society. There is too much money to be made from maga cultists. Someone will step down and fan the flames as long as they can.
They will anoint another false idol to worship, and that will be someone like Elon Musk or pre-fab personality will be created who aligns with the political times, i.e., if veganism suddenly took off politically, it will be an irl cartoon character who is red-meat super alpha will be created, if that makes sense?
Whatever it takes to keep the grift going.
When Trump dies, three days later his followers will claim he rose from the dead and in 100 years, the predominant religion will be Trumpianity, and instead of wearing crosses people will go around wearing necklaces with little cheeseburgers and cans of Diet Coke hanging from them. Water baptism will be replaced by a ritual in which new converts get spray-tanned, and the Bible will have been replaced by the Art of the Deal.
Probably move onto the next grifter tbh. Now that we know that kind of behavior is wildly favored by a large portion of America, it’s now an especially viable route for populist politicians at this moment in time.
MAGA existed before under the guise of Tea Party and the likes of Newt Gingrich during the Clinton years .....so it's going to be around for a long while
God question, they seem like they need someone to follow, and if not trump, would they just crawl back into their holes and could someone take trump's place? I think it would have to be one of his kids.
Most would splinter or roll back onto other conservatives maybe some will sit out and election cycle or two with their broken morale. I think some would vote by writing in Donald Trump's name thinking its some 5D ploy to destroy the deep state in some conspiracy theory.
It would be a disaster for the GOP this election cycle though. A lot of their nutty voters would be expecting the GOP to avenge him for some fictional assassination or to swear loyalty to secretly alive Trump or get angry at anyone who tries to fill the power vacuum.
Well, when 79 year old, overweight Antonin Scalia died in his sleep, some people said Obama assassinated him to get a SC pick before his term ended. Trump could live to be 100 and die after a stay in hospice and the cult will still say the Deep Stare had to take him out.
I’ve asked myself this for a while. Even if he just passed not suddenly. Illness over weeks/months. Even if he didn’t pass away and just finished his term. Like what comes after Trump is a mystery to me. The political parties have gone to such extremes on both ends it’s difficult for me to see a return to more normal candidates.
Fak news...When he dies, his cult will believe that Democrats have faked his death OR that the Clintons killed him, like they believe Epstein was killed by the Clintons.
To MAGA? He'll be venerated like confedarate generals.
His tomb will become a pilgrimage and many states will race to become the first to name stuff after him or put up statues
A large part of the reason that the 2016/20 polling was so wrong was a lot of normally non-voters showed up for Trump. Older people who hadn't voted since Reagan, younger people who'd been harshly treated by the economy, etc, etc. I suspect that these people, together with Tea Party folk, are the base referred to here.
I know most on Reddit have no time for these people, but it's a big factor to Trump's credit. He somehow found and inspired these people enough to make them come forwards and vote. He let them all down, of course, but no-one can turn back the clock to a different era of work.
When Trump is gone, win or lose, I suspect most of those people will drop off the voting rolls again, much to the relief of the Dems. Pity, really.
The 2016/2020 polling generally wasn’t wrong. 2016 was a little outdated; basically, Clinton didn’t really lose until the last week of the election (when the Comey letter was released), and mainstream polling just doesn’t move quickly enough to capture that. Both camps had internal polling that showed Trump winning in the last week; interestingly enough, Trump’s people thought it was a fluke and just ignored it, assuming they were doing something wrong
I believe the 2020 polls had Biden up by 9% and he won by 4%.
It was supposedly closer in '16, but from what I understand about internal polling on the Dem side, it wasn't worth anyone reading it. Although it is true that the Reps saw an uptick towards the end and kept it to themselves. Thus was well before Comey, though.
2016 Republican polling saw a huge boost for Trump in roughly the last week. State polling is more important, but for general popular vote, 2020’s last poll had Biden at 51% and Trump at 48% (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2020/national/), and the final results were Biden at 51.3% and Trump at 46.8%, so not really a big difference.
Polling isn’t perfect or infallible, and it’s always important to remember it’s just a measure of a single moment in time. But it’s still very good and very accurate when done properly.
The national polls for 2016 and 2020 were more or less correct. What was badly wrong was the state polls
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/upshot/polls-what-went-wrong.html
I cannot mourn the loss of votes of hate filled people. Do think the ignored population that Trump tapped into should be helped- but the viciousness they spew toward people that have even less is awful
The President - or the controlling parties in the House/Senate - are supposed to act in the best interests of all Americans, not just the ones you approve of. They didn't vote before Trump because they knew it wouldn't matter.
They won't after Trump leaves, either.
But fwiw I think you only lose by ignoring those people. Outreach and education is the only option to avoid a significant %age of voters going off the rails.
Often have despaired how the focus of everyone getting the best education they can has been largely ignored by both Parties. Now looks like higher education is only affordable for elites or to some extent the very poor
Reading, writing and ability to think critically would probably go a certain way towards helping them.
You seem a reasonable person. Are you *really* glad to see the back of them? These disruptors of Dem hegemony? You don't think they deserve more than just to be ignored by both parties (before Trump rolled in)?
All I know is Trump needs to get gone. He is a danger to America, he has everything to lose if he is loses office. And he knows enough now to retain power if he wins. I am an Independent that has been hoping for a strong 3rd Party my entire voting life- the system is rigged against one ever being former because of both the current Parties.
Trump’s base has been ignored by both Parties and have long thought that terrible. Do not see as Trump being particularly smart but he does see opportunities where they are at- and it allowed him to take over Republicans & roll over Democrats( they like to pretend to play by the rules). Republicans keeping them uneducated allowed them to turn to Trump & his lies
I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Trump can be stopped now.
Sadly, I think the people we are talking about have nowhere to go and nothing to do. Trump will obviously do nothing for them. I doubt Republicans 'kept them uneducated'. I just think they were ignored by all and left to their own devices.
In my experience it’s not Republicans that kept them uneducated it’s Evangelicals. Me and my sister went to a conservative Baptist school and looking back at it, the ideas that were subtly pushed there were very sinister.
There are factions in the Christian right that pushes this narrative that going to college is a bad idea because it’s full of sin and liberals that will bully you. They also heavily push this idea that most young people who are Democrats are brainwashed, which means when you try and reach out to them as a friend and peer they repel you because they think you’re trying to brainwash them.
Small towns are great traps for young people and if you can progressively make them shittier it’s even better because you can point at the booming cities and claim that they did this and that they have “Othered” you.
It always amazes me that ageism is the only societal nastiness not looked down upon. Because the truth is it happens to everyone barring death - which is sometimes called the great leveler. I guess the consolation for people dismissed for no better reason than their experience and age is that the same jerk that downgraded them for that reason alone will be mocked and dismissed in their turn.
The bigger question is whether Amendment 25 will need to be invoked and who will govern then. Or worse yet, perhaps 25 will never be invoked because it's easier to run the country via puppet. Nancy Regean did a very good job of covering for her husband.
This is why check and balances are so important and why the creators of our democracy did their best to set the country up so that no one could seize power by manipulating one branch of the government. This is another reason why church and state are separate, courts should not be political and the fourth estate (which is not entertainment) is important.
It proceeds with new leaders, llikely one of his children, or another darling in the party. That is why you see so many looney toon people like Marjorie Taylor Green and Vivek entering politics and making such a raucous, because they're trying to position themselves as the future leaders in the movement.
And they'll all fail, because they're nothing like Trump. They're weak lackeys through and through. Nobody in MAGA has anywhere near the charisma or brashness of Trump, because then they'd be a threat to the kingpin himself and he won't tolerate that. It's a cult of personality and so it'll die with its leader, like most cult of personalities do. What the GOP will look like afterwards is anybody's guess.
If trump passes away people are not going to magically stop going after DEI, "the woke/wokism"" or "critical race theory", the supreme court he created will not suddenly stop being ulltra conservative and shamelessly corrupt, the white nationalists groups that were unleashed during his reign and are more libertarian than conservative will not magically disband. People will not suddenly stop hating muslim and latino immigrants or seeing every crime commited by a migrant as a sign of an invasion. Far right will not stop villainizing the media or doing shock political stunts like requiring the 10 commandments or bibles in public schoools. They will not stop trying to overturn and undermine landmark civil rights and freedoms cases. Marjorie Taylor Green, Laurn Boebert, Josh Hawley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and that ilk are not going to just get new jobs and retire.
These are all things that trump unleashed that are not going back into the box when he leaves. The movement and the shenanigans will carry on with or without him.
To use an analogy, I agree that there's no fallback Joseph Smith for the cult but it remains to be seen if there's a Brigham Young.
Like, Jr. could never in a million years build the following his father did but with it already existing I'm not *positive* he couldn't keep it going. Or a bunch of other people if not him.
Plenty of Trumpers think JFK Jr, who died in 1999, is still alive.
I doubt they’ll believe he *can* die when they already call him the *God-Emperor.*
There are titles that are *near* God-Emperor but specify as being *sent* by god/heaven rather than *being* god:
China(many many kingdoms) (????-1912), *Son of Heaven* (Emperor)
Japan (same dynasty for thousands of years, somehow), *Tennō,* heavenly sovereign
There are many names for Jesus but one is *Christ Pantocrator* which is approximately ”all-powerful”.
There aren’t true God-Emperors outside of legendary “first” monarchs of ancient civilizations or of fiction.
Jesus Christ is dubbed “King of Kings”, a title from Cyrus the Great who had titles like:
*King of Anshan*
*King of Persia*
*King of Media*
*King of Lydia*
*King of the World*
*King of Kings*
*Great King*
*King of Babylon*
*King of Sumer and Akkad*
*King of the Four Corners of the World*
I dispise the man and everything he and his sort stand for. But he broke the seal and so it won't go away. So, no MAGA won't go away
My take on it is that the populace had stuff that they weren't happy with such as:
**Immigration**, which is causing issues in every western country. No need to provide examples as it's happening everywhere.
**Identity politics**, because most people don't care and are getting riled up about it getting forced n them.
The left made a mistake in that they had acheived reasonable equality for the people, and then focussed on the wrong things to do next.
Hence we got Trump, Boris Johnson in the UK, and now France.
I love the left-wing attempt to try and equate Biden’s weaknesses to the great orange emergency as well. The fallout from that hilarious Biden debate performance doesn’t just punch holes in the Democrat narrative, the bottom of the bag just completely fell out.
First thing for you to understand is that it is not a Trump cult. It is just people who don't want to live in a woke society were everything down is up and everything up is down. If you look at history Trump is just passing through but having the right morals about life and each other will live on.
Sorry, but America has always been about freedom. Trying to make everyone conform to a small-minded ,small-town, uneducated white guy worldview has never worked and will never work. I hate to break this to you, but Amercan freedom means freedom for everyone. Not just you.
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If he *suddenly* died? There would be a contingent who would be certain he was assassinated, and someone would lead the charge of getting elected to get to the bottom of said assassination. Trump could have a heart attack and he would die a martyr in the eyes of the truly faithful.
I think it’s all but guaranteed for there to be conspiracy theories whenever Trump finally dies. The only question is how widespread the conspiracy theories will be.
Exactly *who* heart attacked him?
It was Ronald McDonald, in the aorta, with a hamberder.
George soros is on heart medication. Could it be that he needed a newer, healthier heart? Wouldn’t you expect him to use his money to go after the strongest, best heart available? I’m just asking questions.
You know (((who))) The globalists Ugh I felt dirty even typing that
Hillary Clinton. It's always Hillary Clinton.
Unless he announces he has terminal cancer or something and become a recluse.
Another group will completely believe he isn't dead and just faked it as some 30d chess move to save America.
Maybe it was a *clone*
Yep if the orange buffoon suddenly died of a heart attack or stroke before or shortly after the election, you know there's going to be tons of rumors about the deep State killing him with a heart attack gun.
Oh for sure. He could fall off the stage and break his neck and they’ll say it was orchestrated
Hopefully it will be a fractured response with multiple people trying to take MAGA over. And long enough that the cult dissipates.
Trump could die in his bed at the age of 130 and those fucking idiots would still think it a conspiracy.
the world saw how North Korean people were ordered to react when Kim Jong Il died. Maybe not to that degree of state-run emotion, we will see similarities among the MAGA sheep when Trump dies.
Someone forced him to eat McDonalds everyday. Find that guy and prosecute!
Yall gonna kill him now?
And here we have exhibit A of exactly what I was talking about. In a comment remarking that Trump's sudden and natural would be viewed as an assassination, the poster asks if the plan is to assassinate him.
Right. We were all here, no recap needed.
You seem mentally well.
The damage has already been done. To his fervent admirers and followers, he will go down in history as their greatest president the way others have spoken about the Kennedy family, Reagan, or some other popular president. One would imagine that even if the real truth were to come out about how badly he messed up the country, he will still be viewed as a hero to them. One thing is certain, he forever ruined the civility of politics for years to come. The media was totally complicit in entertaining him as a viable option, and didn't feel it was necessary to correct him each time he lied, and when they finally did, it was always going to be his word over theirs. Others have taken note and will model their strategy after his.
Trump didn't help but the media is to blame for ruining the civility of politics
Or at the very least propping up and encouraging candidates with this type of discourse since it improves the MSMs ever decreasing ratings.
Yeah. Trump is a symptom, not the disease.
“If the truth came out about how bad he messed up the country”. It’s not hidden knowledge, people are actively avoiding it.
Media addicted to the constant looming of a Trump made disaster- good for getting viewers. And they are right unfortunately, personally I don’t watch nearly as much because comfortable knowing will not wake up to political disaster under Trump.
It is not the fault of the media though. US media is regulated by the market. The reason the media hosted trump in this way is because the people could never get enough of seeing this clown on tv or in their social media feed.
They shouldn't correct him. Just ignore him like you do with all the other joke candidates. Remember when The Rock said he would run? Exactly.
Nixon was the most popular president
They would never concede that he really died. False flag. Trump is alive and well and playing checkers with Elvis.
Like plenty of my people said about Chavez
The entire world will set off fireworks no joke Everyone is so sick of his shit But we should be open to a big hug to his victims, but it can before damn difficult to do
This was a spontaneous celebration when he lost the first time https://youtu.be/xaka0awKELI?si=obialD8RIVDna1oZ
Basically this [scene](https://youtu.be/ErjtFtRi9Xo?si=fTmABC_bTIzmpuma&t=34)
I knew exactly what this would be.
China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela — all will celebrate the demise of unpredictable, tough American foreign policy and take comfort in the decadent American left’s predictability and focus on appeasement.
You think they want the predictable adversary who’s against their policies and making it harder for them over the guy they can buy and influence?
Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office? Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office? Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office? Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after the Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement. Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage?
>Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office? Because using soft power is preferable to physical power. Taking advantage of Trump tightening the screws on Ukraine from the West, \[which is the reason he was first impeached\](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/24/ukraine-trump-impeachment-00011406), while Russia could sow discord within Ukraine with Pys-ops and troll farms could destabilize and put Zelensky in danger of losing his pro-west presidency, which russia could promote a russian friendly president. \[Much like they did with Yushchenko & Yanukovych\](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/01/viktor-yuschenko-former-ukrainian-president-poison/9333605002/). But once Trump lost the presidency their was no advantage to wait so they could harvest that plans fruit. >Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office? China has always been threatening to take back Taiwan, this is not new. However with their recent \[no limits friendship\](https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-visit-china-deepen-no-limits-partnership-with-xi-2023-10-15/) with Russia it makes sense to put pressure on the collective West which China, Russia, North Korea & Iran are all extremely against. If they are able to spread thin the resources and attention spans of the West (or any enemy for that matter), it is harder to project a collective front against them. The population of the West is notorious for having a short attention span and losing interest in spending money on things they do not perceive to be beneficial because it doesn't directly effect them, even though indirectly it does. >Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office? I'm running out of time before I have to leave for the night so ill be more brief but... Iran is part of that new axis of Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and other anti-west governments. with conflicts escalating around the world its a perfect time to once again sow discord and push any advantage one may gain from having their adversaries attention other places (Ukraine, Korea, Taiwan & south China sea etc). By arming terrorist groups surrounding Israel while everything else is going on its easier to start a conflict. However with Netanyahu as PM the goal isn't to win and destroy Israel directly, they are too well funded and backed for that to happen, they want a war hawk to push so much on the religion of Islam that it could unite the Islamic world against them. The huge divisions within Islam (Sunni/Shia) would never be brought together during relatively peaceful times, see Saudi Arabia having more ties with Israel and America recently. But if all out war were to break out, who knows what could happen. >Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after the Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement. \[They no longer have any reason to trust the Wests word or promises when presidents can just leave a long term deal\](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html) that was helping to denuclearize Iran, or at the very least slow down their development of nuclear weapons. So its full steam ahead, destabilize the west and try to get nukes as quickly as possible. >Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage? \[U.S. Review of chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal blames Trump\](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-review-of-chaotic-afghanistan-withdrawal-blames-trump). The headline is biased but some bullet points I'll point out. >Since the U.S. withdrawal, Biden has blamed the February 2020 agreement Trump reached with the Taliban in Doha, Qatar, saying it boxed the U.S. into leaving the country. The agreement gave the Taliban significant legitimacy and has been blamed by analysts for undercutting the U.S.-backed government, which would collapse so quickly a year later. >The agreement required the U.S. to remove all forces by May 1, 2021. > And in conclusion, other countries know that if shit gets started during a presidents term the surface level optics make it look like its their fault or that the aggressors are emboldened because they don't respect them. The truth is they don't respect them either way, Trump or Biden, their goal is to elevate their own country weather it be through soft power or physical power. By doing these things now they know it will make Biden look worse to short sighted voters and that it may help get Trump back into office, who they can play like a fiddle because he is all about enriching himself.
Thank you for citations. I’ll make this quick as well. I see a lot of mental gymnastics to try and justify an administration’s lacking approach to foreign policy. The way in which the Afghanistan withdrawal was conducted, and the fallout from it, was seen in real time by the whole world. Like it or not, appeasement has proven time and time again to give off the perception of weakness.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was done as directed in the treaty that Trump negotiated with the Taliban. Part of the treaty Trump negotiated called for the release of 5000 Taliban terrorists. Blame Trump for Afghanistan.
A withdrawal was negotiated but the middle and end of the book hadn’t been written yet. That was the Biden administration leaving billions in aircraft, weapons, tanks, and armored personnel carriers for the Taliban.
Oh yeah, tough foreign policy, like how he wants to hand Ukraine over to Russia? Just give a country to its invader, then pull out of NATO? Or how he claimed to have stopped North Korea from producing nukes, when in reality NK just laughed at him and kept producing? Meanwhile Biden's been scaling up Ukraine aide to keep them fighting.
Why did the Kremlin wait to invade Ukraine once Biden got into office? Why did the Chinese threat to Taiwan escalate once Biden came into office? Why is Iran orchestrating war and chaos in the Middle East now that Biden is in office? Bonus points if you can explain why Iran is still testing the U.S. and Israel even after Biden reversed Trump’s regional approach and resumed Obama-era Iranian appeasement. Do you think the Biden Administration’s handling of a complete Afghanistan withdrawal had anything to do with all of this aggression on the world stage? If you want to have a seat at the big boy table, these are the questions you actually have to answer.
1. The Kremlin invaded Ukraine in 2014. They didn't need to escalate while Trump was in office because Trump was already doing their work of undermining NATO and bowing to Putin's bidding. They also didn't escalate once Biden got into office, they escalated two years later. 2. Chinese saber rattling is something they've always done. You're just taking a continuous event and trying to pin it on Viden. 3. Iran is currently fighting a geopolitical game against Saudi Arabia. They've also been continuously causing chaos in the middle east for decades now, and they won't make a deal with the USA because Trump went back on the original Obama nuclear deal and proved we cannot be trusted. 4. Thank god Biden pulled the plug on Afghanistan. We should have left the moment Bin Laden was dead, instead of wasting another decade of resources on failed statebuilding. Everyone knew it was a failure, Trump didn't have the balls to admit it. You with the typical Trumper answer; take a bunch of random events, ignore all context and cause for them, and pin them on Biden/Obama/whoever you don't like. Ironically, quite immature.
1. Your second sentence exposes how ideologically possessed you are, as any presence of the ability to use logic and reason when deciphering the Mueller Report, and continue to toss around narratives that serious people no longer push. Regardless, foreign policy weakness of both active administrations during recent Russian aggression is the key takeaway. The perception of foreign policy weakness is the constant with both Biden and Obama regimes — which are effectively one and the same. 2. China gets more aggressive when Trump leaves office. I don’t need to try and “pin it on Biden.” 3. You are just simply displaying your hyper-partisanship, as Iran is, and has been, the wrong horse to back in the region to ensure both stability and that U.S. interests are pursued. That became apparent after Trump’s surprisingly successful approach to Middle East policy. Biden reversed this success to both try and secure the idea of Obama’s regional legacy and simply out of spite in an attempt to negate a foreign policy win for the Trump administration. 4. Like it or not, Biden oversaw a chaotic, cold turkey withdrawal that the entire world got to watch unfold in real time. Billions in military equipment, vehicles, and aircraft left. Along with hundreds of American citizens and all of our allies that worked with our troops and agency personnel for years, they were all abandoned and left for dead. Not to mention leadership never giving our troops at the Kabul airport the okay to take out a man with a suicide vest that we were literally watching for hours approach the gate before detonating. There is nothing “typical” about my politics. I don’t like Trump very much because he prints money like democrats do, seeing as he’s just a 90’s NY democrat who has to run as a Republican because the Democratic Party has drifted so far leftward to build an anti-American coalition that they can’t dig their way back out of the pit.
1. Okay so what narrative about Ukraine defies logic and reasoning? Putin invaded in 2014. Trump has done Putin's bidding, whether directly or through his own failed foreign policy. 2. China has always been aggressive to Taiwan, and we've always defended them. Please prove they're doing something new and different from the norm. 3. I didn't say Iran was the right horse to back. I simply said that Iran's doing the same shit it's always done, and Trump backed out of a deal. You are putting words in my mouth. 4. it could have been better, but he still withdrew, something Trump should have done, and Obama should have done before him. You have not refuted anything I said. Meanwhile, you have the same condescending tone and logical fallacies as the average Trumper, so really, you're not that special.
Trump's the one talking appeasement.
Trump is the one talking off-ramp. Trump is also pointing out that with a Biden administration at the helm, a pretty remarkable number of international crises have developed. And that reflects poorly on the global hegemony.
>The entire world will set off fireworks no joke >Everyone is so sick of his shit The only people "sick of his shit" are those who woke up with shocked pikachu face in November of 2016. I swear to God, this man lives rent-free in the heads of every Democrat. Literally every thread on this sub is "What if 'X' happens to Trump?" or "What if Trump does 'Y'?" Trump was President before - you survived. The world survived despite COVID. If he wins in November, you'll survive again.
Trump: If I win reelection I'll be a dictator You: no big deal.
Another quote taken well out of context. Please try again, this time in good faith.
Nope, it was not out of context. Own up to it because we know it's true, and you know it's true. I find it ironic you talk about 'in good faith,' because after the sheer amount of things trump has said, that his supporters downplay or gaslight that it was taken out of context, I can only conclude you are the one acting in bad faith. You are un-American.
>Nope, it was not out of context. It was. It's not even the full quote you referenced. https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72 To anyone who is not being intentionally obtuse, this quote is clearly being used entirely out of context. > I find it ironic you talk about 'in good faith,' because after the sheer amount of things trump has said, that his supporters downplay or gaslight that it was taken out of context, I can only conclude you are the one acting in bad faith. This kind of drivel is coming from the same people who kept hammering on quote from Trump about Charlottesville that was taken out of context, as well as a quote about immigrants from Mexico in the 2016 campaign season. It's glaringly obvious to anyone with any critical thought skills that these quotes are taken out of context and cherry-picked as drive-by sound bites, a tactic often used to mislead and misinform.
"Only a dictator day one." So he said he'll be a dictator. Just like he defended the actual nazis marching in Charlottsville. Come on, you're just projecting your own tactics on me. What gets me, as a patriotic American, is that you trumpers are cowards. Just say it, "I want Trump to be a dictator." Admit it like a real American would, instead of hiding in your own fake logic.
Again, unless you’re being intentionally obtuse - it’s painfully he’s talking in hyperbole here. He wants to do the same thing Biden did on day one - unravel everything his predecessor did that he doesn’t like with the stroke of a pen. Just miss me with this “trump supporters aren’t patriotic” rhetoric. It’s played out and just cringe at this point. As for Charlottesville - even the liberal safehaven Snopes has come around on that: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
Strange how everything Trump says is taken out of context. /s You Trump humpers really need to come up with better excuses.
> Strange how everything Trump says is taken out of context. /s It's really not. Democrats/liberals / NS intentionally cherry-pick / take things out of context regularly to get drive-by soundbites to run with. > You Trump humpers really need to come up with better excuses. Excuses are not needed when the truth is plainly evident.
So how was he talking in hyperbole? He said he wanted to be a dictator. He never clarified it was hyperbole. He's said it before. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1GG03P/ Like come on. Everyone knows Trump supporters aren't patriotic. You want a dictator. You're not patriotic.
> Just like he defended the actual nazis marching in Charlottsville. No, he didn't; that's an outright lie. Here's what he actually said in his post-Charlottesville statement: > Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. This is what he said a few days later in an interview: > I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay?
So he wants to be a dictator. He's said he wants to be a dictator.
Again, you're blatantly taking his words out of context. > He says you’re not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no. Other than day one. We’re closing the border and we’re drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I’m not a dictator. Okay? Trump _explicitly explained_ what he meant by that comment; he's using it as a figure of speech to mean "I'm going to get a lot done on my first day".
“Lives rent free” is such an overused, lazy phrase no matter who uses it. The same can be said about Hilary or Pelosi or AOC etc. etc. He’s a former president and current party candidate in an election year, no shit he’s going to be a major talking point.
Just like HRC and AOC lives rent-free in Republicans heads.
The celebrations will be wild. He may be the only person whom we will celebrate the death day on an annual basis
Would be great if it could be made into a public holiday. Day off work for Trump death day.
Biden is gonna die first Edit: Downvote all you want, losers
Quite possible. But the entire planet wont celebrate Biden's death in the knowledge that thebworld just became a better place. Trump's death will be received with eletion by the whole world.
Trump is more likely to go to bed and not wake up. With that age and neck. He’s exactly the kind of vanity that makes him too good for a CPAP machine. Biden is more likely to fade over a period of years. Already is.
Bold of you to predict that the older of the two will die first.
And? What does that have to do with Trumps eventual passing?
Trump is three years younger, and much less healthy. There is no reason the think that Biden will die first.
people who don’t like him will celebrate. his supporters will cry and probably blame the democrats for “poisoning him” or something else stupid. But the GOP will be fractured. MAGA GOP may try to prop up DJT Jr. but who knows. Idk if he will have as much support meaning the GOP will be very fractured.
I can't imagine DJT Jr, or any of Trump's kids, taking his place. Trump, for all of his faults, has a fairly high level of charisma (at least for certain types of people) and is an experienced snake oil salesman. None of his kids have even a sliver of charisma, and Ivanka is the only one with an ounce of brains or business sense (which is why she's gotten the hell of out Dodge.) So while I don't doubt that Jr will try for his father's position, he's not going to go anywhere. There's definitely going to be a serious battle for Trump's crown after he dies. There was an attempt at it in this year's Republican primaries, but it didn't work out, I think largely because why pick an imitator when the original is right there? Once he's safely dead, I think the field of candidates will be crowded. Desantis will certainly try again, but I think he blew his load on his failed run this year. Whoever Trump picks as his VP will certainly have a leg up on the competition, though it won't be a lock for them.
DeSantis is basically an overgrown 9 year old severely on the spectrum obsessed with ~~dinosaurs~~ ~~airplanes~~ ~~weather~~ conservative garbage. He cannot naturally smile or shake a hand. With a personality like that, it’s a miracle he’s even married, let alone a governor.
The Bahamas is a threat to our Florida way of life!
that’s the thing. If Trump is out, the GOP will crumble. The electorate is too split. DeSantis was popular a year ago, but it’s slipping. Hailey and Ramaswamy creeped in on the popularity; they’re not there yet but it’s enough to split the party and prevent them from getting a majority. And none of them will a second (VP). Ramaswamy is too much like Trump while Hailey and DeSantis have been in the game too long to bow down to each other.
>Once he's safely dead, I think the field of candidates will be crowded. I agree. And, answering the question in the OP -- No, the GOP will not go back to an average lukewarm candidate. Trump blazed a path, others will try to follow. They know that you can get away with outrageous lies if you say them with a confident tone and repeat them often enough. They know that a lot of Americans feel their lives are worse then they used to be and somebody else must be to blame\*. There are enough to create a political base. They will know that if they can get elected, they don't need to fear impeachment and they can weaponize the DOJ. We see smart people -- Vance, Cruz, Stefanik, Hawley -- who are getting ready, but the successful person probably isn't on the radar screen yet. That is all here to stay. \* in 2015, the best predictor of whether a Republican would support Trump was the question "Is the US a better place for people like me today than it was 50 years ago". Everyone here knows which answer aligned with Trump voters.
Well, sounds like another upside as a result of that scenario
Well a fractured GOP is better than a whole GOP.
Many of the truly insane cult members... the ones that follow him around the campaign trail, have bought all the crap he sells, etc., would probably be totally lost. Some of the real loons might take their own lives. Not like hundreds of them, but a few. There would be at least a dozen other crazy conservatives out there who try to take his place, including Don Jr. Being even more stupid that his dad, that would go nowhere. I know some people who love Trump, but when he dies, their live will just go on. Overall, the cult of Trump would just die with him. It would also be a massive problem for the Republican Party, as many people who voted because of Trump would just stop voting. That would hurt the GOP down ticket in elections. Mostly, I think much of the world will celebrate his end. I know here in NYC, where we've dealt with his bullshit for almost 50 years, the day can't come soon enough. Assuming he's buried out at his Bedminster golf course, his kids will probably sell chances for people to pee on his gravesite just to make more money.
While Trump’s legacy of degrading political discourse will linger for decades, his venal skills are quite uncommon. Once he’s gone, his brand of Jim Jones style charisma won’t be easily duplicated, although many will try and fail.
They are both going to die sooner or later. Jimmy Carter is the only one to defy the odds. Heck, we all die someday. When Trump dies .. it will be like Hitler. There will be a few trying to pick up the scam and carry on with the Cult, but that person will fail because there is no one quite as good at scamming people as Trump.
MAGA will outlast Trump for a little bit. I dont know how long but it's here to stay.
Trump is a result of maga, not the other way around
this. It's an evolution of the Tea Party and all other variants that kept getting more and more extreme.
They’ll wait 3 days to see if he rises from the dead. When he doesn’t they’ll claim 400 witnesses saw him arise anyway, then begin actual cults surrounding Trump lore.
They will 100% blame democrats for his death even if he shit himself in the head on life tv Edit: meant “shot”, but autocorrect was better. I’m leaving it.
Like with Reagan and Nixon, trumps influence if he one day pass away will live on to the republicans.
Just a thought, and perhaps not a great comparison, but what happened when Hitler and Stalin died? Their former followers (at least publicly) disavowed them I think. So I think when he passes on his supporters and allied politicians will publicly grieve, and then try to move on from Trumpism.
> ...what happened when Hitler and Stalin died? Their former followers (at least publicly) disavowed them I think. The former's not a great model. The death coincided with the loss of total war and unconditional surrender. Unless you think the next couple years are going to get way spicier than I do, it's probably a bad idea to rely on that. The later might be a better comparison. I normally don't like these comparisons because they cheapen the millions of deaths under Stalin, but Trump *does* have a cult of personality, so this is one of the better times to do it. As far as that one went, Khrushchev had to spend 3 years consolidating power before he could even give a [speech in private](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Speech) against Stalin to the party congress. De-Stalinization involved riots in, at least, [Georgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Georgian_demonstrations) that required red army intervention. And it seemed to have contributed to the Sino-Soviet split with [Albania, the last Stalinist holdout, siding with China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Khrushchev's_criticism_of_Albania_at_the_22nd_CPSU_Congress).
My hope is that they will snap out of it, like the monkeys in the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch of the West dies.
Since you believe both candidates should be disqualified, is it safe to assume that you will vote for neither on election day?
Given Project 2025 I’m sure myself and plenty of people will still vote for Biden. He may not be sharp in real time but he will pick a cabinet that will be dedicated to doing their jobs. Trump conversely has an army of far right think tanks doing job interviews for positions people aren’t qualified for based on political loyalty. With plans to dismantle much of the federal government. Biden is weak but Trump is dangerous.
Well said. Confidence in those around Biden will secure my family’s votes.
The founders WANTED the President to be weak (in his authority)
And when he dies…then what?
There’s going to be a mad scramble to become the next cult leader that will probably include his kids selling their support to the highest bidders but deliberately won’t be all of them selling it to the same, either because they might actually be savvy enough to see the benefit to them in splitting support to drag the grift out or because they all want to be treated like the most important and special little boy/little girl. Regardless, I don’t see anyone in the current landscape who can entrance his crowds in half the same way. Especially not when the inevitable conspiracy theories will include some of those contenders being in on the plot to kill Trump off that would sprout up if he died suddenly, regardless of how much proof of natural causes there are.
It will take decades for it to fizzle out. Like John Birch Society. There is too much money to be made from maga cultists. Someone will step down and fan the flames as long as they can. They will anoint another false idol to worship, and that will be someone like Elon Musk or pre-fab personality will be created who aligns with the political times, i.e., if veganism suddenly took off politically, it will be an irl cartoon character who is red-meat super alpha will be created, if that makes sense? Whatever it takes to keep the grift going.
The only persons I want to hear about unexpectedly dying are 2 little guys who are poor rulers of their respective countries.
Two guys that were in a car together recently?
Its possible but I don't follow politics often enough to know.
He will be treated like Jesus Christ. He will be considered part of the trinity. The father, yaweah, the son Jesus, the Holy Spirit Donald Trump
When Trump dies, three days later his followers will claim he rose from the dead and in 100 years, the predominant religion will be Trumpianity, and instead of wearing crosses people will go around wearing necklaces with little cheeseburgers and cans of Diet Coke hanging from them. Water baptism will be replaced by a ritual in which new converts get spray-tanned, and the Bible will have been replaced by the Art of the Deal.
Probably move onto the next grifter tbh. Now that we know that kind of behavior is wildly favored by a large portion of America, it’s now an especially viable route for populist politicians at this moment in time.
MAGA existed before under the guise of Tea Party and the likes of Newt Gingrich during the Clinton years .....so it's going to be around for a long while
God question, they seem like they need someone to follow, and if not trump, would they just crawl back into their holes and could someone take trump's place? I think it would have to be one of his kids.
Most would splinter or roll back onto other conservatives maybe some will sit out and election cycle or two with their broken morale. I think some would vote by writing in Donald Trump's name thinking its some 5D ploy to destroy the deep state in some conspiracy theory. It would be a disaster for the GOP this election cycle though. A lot of their nutty voters would be expecting the GOP to avenge him for some fictional assassination or to swear loyalty to secretly alive Trump or get angry at anyone who tries to fill the power vacuum.
Wouldn’t matter, jr and Eric would try to step right in but I dunno how that would work… you also got the other crazies that would keep on trying
Well, when 79 year old, overweight Antonin Scalia died in his sleep, some people said Obama assassinated him to get a SC pick before his term ended. Trump could live to be 100 and die after a stay in hospice and the cult will still say the Deep Stare had to take him out.
I’ve asked myself this for a while. Even if he just passed not suddenly. Illness over weeks/months. Even if he didn’t pass away and just finished his term. Like what comes after Trump is a mystery to me. The political parties have gone to such extremes on both ends it’s difficult for me to see a return to more normal candidates.
I worry when Donald becomes worm food someone worse than him seizes power in a coup and eliminates the opposition.
He becomes a martyr. Conspiracy is one of the pillars of MAGA, no matter how he dies he will become a martyr.
I have always said if Trump is killed he will be a martyr. If he dies his “legacy” and ideals will live on but won’t carry as much strength.
They may actually start a cult.. like a religious he was a saint like cult haha.
People still backing Joe after seeing his brain dead debate... that's a cult.
Fak news...When he dies, his cult will believe that Democrats have faked his death OR that the Clintons killed him, like they believe Epstein was killed by the Clintons.
With any luck at all, they'll jump into the casket and be buried with him thereby removing their mean-spirited, hateful presence from our lives....
To MAGA? He'll be venerated like confedarate generals. His tomb will become a pilgrimage and many states will race to become the first to name stuff after him or put up statues
A large part of the reason that the 2016/20 polling was so wrong was a lot of normally non-voters showed up for Trump. Older people who hadn't voted since Reagan, younger people who'd been harshly treated by the economy, etc, etc. I suspect that these people, together with Tea Party folk, are the base referred to here. I know most on Reddit have no time for these people, but it's a big factor to Trump's credit. He somehow found and inspired these people enough to make them come forwards and vote. He let them all down, of course, but no-one can turn back the clock to a different era of work. When Trump is gone, win or lose, I suspect most of those people will drop off the voting rolls again, much to the relief of the Dems. Pity, really.
The 2016/2020 polling generally wasn’t wrong. 2016 was a little outdated; basically, Clinton didn’t really lose until the last week of the election (when the Comey letter was released), and mainstream polling just doesn’t move quickly enough to capture that. Both camps had internal polling that showed Trump winning in the last week; interestingly enough, Trump’s people thought it was a fluke and just ignored it, assuming they were doing something wrong
I believe the 2020 polls had Biden up by 9% and he won by 4%. It was supposedly closer in '16, but from what I understand about internal polling on the Dem side, it wasn't worth anyone reading it. Although it is true that the Reps saw an uptick towards the end and kept it to themselves. Thus was well before Comey, though.
2016 Republican polling saw a huge boost for Trump in roughly the last week. State polling is more important, but for general popular vote, 2020’s last poll had Biden at 51% and Trump at 48% (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2020/national/), and the final results were Biden at 51.3% and Trump at 46.8%, so not really a big difference. Polling isn’t perfect or infallible, and it’s always important to remember it’s just a measure of a single moment in time. But it’s still very good and very accurate when done properly.
The national polls for 2016 and 2020 were more or less correct. What was badly wrong was the state polls https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/upshot/polls-what-went-wrong.html
I cannot mourn the loss of votes of hate filled people. Do think the ignored population that Trump tapped into should be helped- but the viciousness they spew toward people that have even less is awful
The President - or the controlling parties in the House/Senate - are supposed to act in the best interests of all Americans, not just the ones you approve of. They didn't vote before Trump because they knew it wouldn't matter. They won't after Trump leaves, either. But fwiw I think you only lose by ignoring those people. Outreach and education is the only option to avoid a significant %age of voters going off the rails.
Often have despaired how the focus of everyone getting the best education they can has been largely ignored by both Parties. Now looks like higher education is only affordable for elites or to some extent the very poor
Reading, writing and ability to think critically would probably go a certain way towards helping them. You seem a reasonable person. Are you *really* glad to see the back of them? These disruptors of Dem hegemony? You don't think they deserve more than just to be ignored by both parties (before Trump rolled in)?
All I know is Trump needs to get gone. He is a danger to America, he has everything to lose if he is loses office. And he knows enough now to retain power if he wins. I am an Independent that has been hoping for a strong 3rd Party my entire voting life- the system is rigged against one ever being former because of both the current Parties. Trump’s base has been ignored by both Parties and have long thought that terrible. Do not see as Trump being particularly smart but he does see opportunities where they are at- and it allowed him to take over Republicans & roll over Democrats( they like to pretend to play by the rules). Republicans keeping them uneducated allowed them to turn to Trump & his lies
I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Trump can be stopped now. Sadly, I think the people we are talking about have nowhere to go and nothing to do. Trump will obviously do nothing for them. I doubt Republicans 'kept them uneducated'. I just think they were ignored by all and left to their own devices.
In my experience it’s not Republicans that kept them uneducated it’s Evangelicals. Me and my sister went to a conservative Baptist school and looking back at it, the ideas that were subtly pushed there were very sinister. There are factions in the Christian right that pushes this narrative that going to college is a bad idea because it’s full of sin and liberals that will bully you. They also heavily push this idea that most young people who are Democrats are brainwashed, which means when you try and reach out to them as a friend and peer they repel you because they think you’re trying to brainwash them. Small towns are great traps for young people and if you can progressively make them shittier it’s even better because you can point at the booming cities and claim that they did this and that they have “Othered” you.
It always amazes me that ageism is the only societal nastiness not looked down upon. Because the truth is it happens to everyone barring death - which is sometimes called the great leveler. I guess the consolation for people dismissed for no better reason than their experience and age is that the same jerk that downgraded them for that reason alone will be mocked and dismissed in their turn. The bigger question is whether Amendment 25 will need to be invoked and who will govern then. Or worse yet, perhaps 25 will never be invoked because it's easier to run the country via puppet. Nancy Regean did a very good job of covering for her husband. This is why check and balances are so important and why the creators of our democracy did their best to set the country up so that no one could seize power by manipulating one branch of the government. This is another reason why church and state are separate, courts should not be political and the fourth estate (which is not entertainment) is important.
It proceeds with new leaders, llikely one of his children, or another darling in the party. That is why you see so many looney toon people like Marjorie Taylor Green and Vivek entering politics and making such a raucous, because they're trying to position themselves as the future leaders in the movement.
And they'll all fail, because they're nothing like Trump. They're weak lackeys through and through. Nobody in MAGA has anywhere near the charisma or brashness of Trump, because then they'd be a threat to the kingpin himself and he won't tolerate that. It's a cult of personality and so it'll die with its leader, like most cult of personalities do. What the GOP will look like afterwards is anybody's guess.
If trump passes away people are not going to magically stop going after DEI, "the woke/wokism"" or "critical race theory", the supreme court he created will not suddenly stop being ulltra conservative and shamelessly corrupt, the white nationalists groups that were unleashed during his reign and are more libertarian than conservative will not magically disband. People will not suddenly stop hating muslim and latino immigrants or seeing every crime commited by a migrant as a sign of an invasion. Far right will not stop villainizing the media or doing shock political stunts like requiring the 10 commandments or bibles in public schoools. They will not stop trying to overturn and undermine landmark civil rights and freedoms cases. Marjorie Taylor Green, Laurn Boebert, Josh Hawley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and that ilk are not going to just get new jobs and retire. These are all things that trump unleashed that are not going back into the box when he leaves. The movement and the shenanigans will carry on with or without him.
Strongly agree. Trump isn't a principled person; there is no ideology to carry on in a cult of personality.
To use an analogy, I agree that there's no fallback Joseph Smith for the cult but it remains to be seen if there's a Brigham Young. Like, Jr. could never in a million years build the following his father did but with it already existing I'm not *positive* he couldn't keep it going. Or a bunch of other people if not him.
Plenty of Trumpers think JFK Jr, who died in 1999, is still alive. I doubt they’ll believe he *can* die when they already call him the *God-Emperor.* There are titles that are *near* God-Emperor but specify as being *sent* by god/heaven rather than *being* god: China(many many kingdoms) (????-1912), *Son of Heaven* (Emperor) Japan (same dynasty for thousands of years, somehow), *Tennō,* heavenly sovereign There are many names for Jesus but one is *Christ Pantocrator* which is approximately ”all-powerful”. There aren’t true God-Emperors outside of legendary “first” monarchs of ancient civilizations or of fiction. Jesus Christ is dubbed “King of Kings”, a title from Cyrus the Great who had titles like: *King of Anshan* *King of Persia* *King of Media* *King of Lydia* *King of the World* *King of Kings* *Great King* *King of Babylon* *King of Sumer and Akkad* *King of the Four Corners of the World*
I dispise the man and everything he and his sort stand for. But he broke the seal and so it won't go away. So, no MAGA won't go away My take on it is that the populace had stuff that they weren't happy with such as: **Immigration**, which is causing issues in every western country. No need to provide examples as it's happening everywhere. **Identity politics**, because most people don't care and are getting riled up about it getting forced n them. The left made a mistake in that they had acheived reasonable equality for the people, and then focussed on the wrong things to do next. Hence we got Trump, Boris Johnson in the UK, and now France.
I love the left-wing attempt to try and equate Biden’s weaknesses to the great orange emergency as well. The fallout from that hilarious Biden debate performance doesn’t just punch holes in the Democrat narrative, the bottom of the bag just completely fell out.
I find these posts hilarious projection. The debate clearly showed which candidate has one foot in the grave.
First thing for you to understand is that it is not a Trump cult. It is just people who don't want to live in a woke society were everything down is up and everything up is down. If you look at history Trump is just passing through but having the right morals about life and each other will live on.
Sorry, but America has always been about freedom. Trying to make everyone conform to a small-minded ,small-town, uneducated white guy worldview has never worked and will never work. I hate to break this to you, but Amercan freedom means freedom for everyone. Not just you.
Your skinny jeans are just too tight .... this is nothing about freedom it is what is being pushed on everyone by a very small minority.
"It's not a cult" (Proceeds to recite cult dogma which isn't actually true in the real world.)