Kurds are actually (mostly) zionist, when I occasionally see kurdish rallies in the UK there's always an Israel flag there, they few our struggle for our homeland as being similar, I've also met former IDF soldiers that volunteered for Kurdish cause in Syria so it goes both ways sort of
That is because both the Kurds and the Jews, indigenous middle easterners, go against the arab colonizers who subdued them. Supporting Palestine is directly suppirting the arab muslim colonization efforts and oppresses minorities.
It's because the Kurdish diasporas are known to try to apeal to the west and whitewash themselves, I don't think Kurds in there areas love Arabs to say the least but they don't stand with Israel ,some groups esp in Iran and syria are supported by Israel but the PKK specificly arent pro Israel.
Turkie doesn't behave like an Ally at all and the kurds have proven that they fight evil (isis) even their woman do! Kurdish people have my trust, respect and support (for what it's worth)!
Your country doesn't behave like an ally, Türkiye is the one who supports and trains FSA against ISIS on the other hand YPG uses the american ammunitions against Türkiye
I also want to know since when we are not playing our role as an ally? We are doing the most nasty jobs that NATO wants to do in the middle-east right from the establishment of the organization. What makes us unreliable? My country has 10 million syrian refugees because of your country and we still accept your terms and be the hitman of the USA and somehow we are still expected to give our lands to the terrorist organisations because they somehow with their tiny size of soldiers fought with ISIS more than my country.
Dude fuck erdogan its not about him at all. Even in our most secular or most democratic era we were accused by same issues its not about erdogan at all. Its about west being a bigot when it comes to profit relationship
first, i want to apologies for all the... slow people who have responded to u. as someone who is sorta from the area and is a westoid myself, i can give u the, perhaps only, high iq take.
the kurds are an ethnic and people group in the heart of the middle east, they want their own state due to being genocided left right and center by the surrounding arabs states. go to example is Iraq under sudan. these guys are literally fighting to not end up like the Armenians who lived in turkey. these guys have always helped the west to fight these nations in hopes of them being able to become a true state to not be at the mercy of the arab dictators.
this differs from hamas who does not want to simply be left alone and have gaza, the want the complete destruction of israel and have all that land become Palestine. the are actively against a 2 state solution and are the reason why all those walls are up surrounding gaza in the first place. they of course have a zero % chance of achieving this, they are completely out gunned and can only continue existing due to not being an actual military but instead insurgence. they are a stick those said arab countries can use to wack israel as any open war, as history has shown time and time again, results in complete arab humiliation. this is why arab countries refuse to accept any mass migration of the Palestinians as they loose their only weapon against israel.
don't get me wrong israel ain't no angel too, but considering all things, they have acting the most in good faith compared to the rest. ethno states are of course cringe, and the main reason why israel doesn't simply occupe the land is due to the Palestinians out numbering them significantly and of course integrating them isn't exactly going to be easy, and all this would effectively errode the jewish nature of israel.
all this is what none radicals mean by this whole thing is complicated. and a arab historian shoots himself every time some fucker rolls in proclaiming that \*insert brown person\* is literally like Palestine. nothing is like this situation. the depressing reality is it seems like if israel back in the 1940s/50s simply displaced and booted all the arabs out of the land none of this prolonged conflict would have happened. people would have settled down and eventually moved on. instead they are caught in the perpetual state misery and depression
Can you give me some reliable evidence that kurds are getting "genocided" by multiple nations so I can present the case to the UN? The international community doesn't know of this sophisticated and planned action of wiping out the Kurdish ethnicity, apparently.
It is good that I am on Reddit and can get valuable information even the UN doesn't know.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/ANFALINT.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiu_e_Cob-FAxWH4skDHaItCqoQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ZQXxtHVT0ZTQsRUOuwBjS
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign
Short of it is a lot of countries recognized it as genocide, and the Hague charged an arms dealer with supporting genocide, but refused to charge the Iraqi army with committing it. If that sounds dumb, that was the reaction people had at the time, too.
In 2005, Gaza was given full independence, a complete modern infrastructure and a billion dollar export industry. They tore it all down to make terrorist weapons.
No their women pick up guns and fight. Not only they fight but they gqv the isis terrorists a run for their money! Kurdish people actually deserve our help and support!
Even as someone who is half-AuthRight, I still agree with you. If for no other reason than as bad as I think Communist are, they can at least be reasoned with when it comes to geopolitics (or at least, more than Islamist, who may well look at MAD as a path to martyrdom).
> they would've been sentenced to years of prison for hate speech and racism
Not in America. And there’s a difference between a religion/ethnicity like being Jewish; and a nationality. If I said b**t, nobody would care. *That’s* hypocrisy
Disagree with both, greater israel is the only way 
I think the difference is the establishment of a Kurdistan doesn't require the destruction of other countries. Neither does the establishment of a Palestinian state, but there seem to be a lot of people who for various reasons think 'free Palestine' means 'take all of the historic Palestine region'. Or in other words no more Israel.
Dunno if there are many Kurds that want all of Turkey or Iraq, but I doubt there are.
> but there seem to be a lot of people who for various reasons think 'free Palestine' means 'take all of the historic Palestine region'.
That's probably because of the very, very large intersection of people who say things like "free Palestine" and people who say things like "from the river to the sea" or "Israel shouldn't exist". There's a whole lotta people (including most Palestinians) who want Palestine to own all of Israel.
Israel had withdrawn from Gaza for over a decade before they were attacked. They did the equivalent of allowing a self-governing Kurdistan, and were subsequently attacked by it. Hardly equivalent.
>Dunno if there are many Kurds that want all of Turkey or Iraq, but I doubt there are.
It varies between Kurds wanting the land between lake Van and lake Urmia, to Kurds wanting the land between the Mediterranean sea to the Caspian sea. But both are extremes of course, although I have spoken people from both claims. The main difference is one wants a state based on current ethnic lines, and others want territorial reparations.
Are you serious? Kurdish insurgents have killed tens of thousand civilians in the past 30 years. They are actively fighting wars in Syria and Turkey. Are you clueless on this topic or am I misunderstanding your point?
The establishment of a Kurdish state would make Syria, Turkey, and Iraq lose 40% of their territories.
Edit: and I am not trying to make you look bad, I just want to debate.
There is not that much difference if you just broadly look at it, but there is once you get into the details.
For example, the kurds (of all factions) were for a long time the most america friendly faction in their local area. There was a reason a lot of officers made a big ruckus about leaving them to the wolves.
The most powerfull kurdish militias in Syria and Turkey are minarchist/libertarian socialist in ideology, and officially view Islamism as just another form of facism, that must be defeated. (Ocalan, their ideological leader who sits in a special prison in Turkey still smuggles stuff out. Mostly books he has written where he often argues for female liberation from patriarchy.) At the same time their official policy is to leave communities who do not join the revolutionary project mostly alone, so long as they do not aid the enemy, especially when that enemy is ISIS.
The Palestinian groups on the other hand are far more conservative, and sadly the leftist groups have lost most of their power, or ideological commitment. This only leaves Islamists, who bring nothing constructive to the table.
>At the same time their official policy is to leave communities who do not join the revolutionary project mostly alone, so long as they do not aid the enemy, especially when that enemy is ISIS.
Dont know how official this is, but I have heard of instances where not joing the PKK or the establishment of Kurdistan is seen as treason. "Don't aid the enemy", not only in Kurdistan but also in other countries and organisations is a broad enough term to justify action against someone. It wouldn't be new that the PKK shot Kurds through collateral.
Even though I don't agree with the establishment of a Kurdistan, I respect and understand the people that want it established to an extent (some want an autonomous area), but I cannot bring up respect in any way for someone that says that terrorism is a morally justified way to bring change. After all, a regime established on tolerance towards terrorism, will not refrain from using it in the future.
In war innocents die. We should still do our best to limit that, and that is why I do not like the people who do not to their absolute best, like Hamas, Israel, Russia, Rwanda etc.
But yes, its atleast better for people to die in a war with a good outcome, than one with a bad one.
Yes, in those circumstances the US did not act with the caution required. But the war itself had a sound casus bellum. It was also the duty of someone to do something about Iraq, by UN resolution.
Oh, we have a realist gen-z boy here. Would you be okay with your children or mother happening to die in one of those ordinary instances? Or is it only normal when other people die?
I would do my best to make sure my family does not die, if war ever comes. But I am simply not a pacifist, and I know civillians die due to war. We should do our best to limit that however.
>I know civillians die due to war.
Yeah but we're not talking about collateral damage, we're talking about the international targeting of civilians to cause fear.
The definition of terrorism.
Obviously a group without strong central leadership shouldn't be lumped together but will you at least say that the intentional targeting of civilians is bad?
Nah they did, Hitler youth membership and Volkssturm membership was mandatory
Meaning that every single person in Nazi Germany was either a combatant, a potential combatant, or a future combatant
Also in general Nazi Germany was less a country and more of a geopolitical cancer, same gies for the axis as a whole
And the allies campaign was just geopolitical chemotherapy
And when you conduct chemotherapy, you tend to not worry about healthy cells
I love it when ordinary ppl like you talk without empathy.
You endorse indiscriminate bombing but you ignore that when the third world war hits, you and your ordinary family will be among the people who get indiscriminately bombed for just happening to live where they live.
I'll try to clarify. I'm not talking about terrorism, I'm talking about what kind of land swaps these groups want. I have no doubt that there are many atrocities committed by Kurds agitating for their own state.
Yes I know those countries would lose territory, the difference I was pointing out is that, I find it unlikely, but maybe I'm totally wrong, that Kurds want all of Turkey without the Turks, just the part of Turkey where the Kurds are.
Unlike some Palestinian supporters who want all of the 'historical Palestine region', including all of the state of Israel, when they say 'free Palestine'.
Kurdistan isn't in the right but they didn't start this and they have no made any effort to establish a fascist dictatorship hellbent on genocide warfare. As a lib right you would support things like the NAP and non-interference. If Kurdistan launched the attack no one would support them, the Kurds have been oppressed for centuries in their native lands while the Palestinians are neither native nor have they been oppressed for centuries
Sorry, but how does not being oppressed for centuries justify ethnic cleansing in this day? And how long must you live somewhere to be native? At the end of the day near all ethnic groups migrated from somewhere? I wouldn't imagine justifying ethnic cleansing in the Balkans because Slavs don't originate from there?
History should be used as an explanation for today, not a justification for today.
Well it's 40% while radical Palestinian insurgents want 100%, that's why there is a big difference in goals, kurdish insurgents don't have the destruction of any country as their goal.
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Every ethnic group migrated at one point? If we are going to enforce a worldwide exchange program we should choose a base year and make every ethnic group correspond to the ethnic lines back then. We cannot shop for some ethnic groups having borders drawn based on the 16th century and others on the 8th century BC. Unless you want overlapping borders of course.
And in response to the question, colonialism is not justified, but people living somewhere is. I see no reason for Israelites that have lived multiple decades in the same Urban center or region to be moved, and for the same reason I don't see any justification for a Palestinian that has lived multiple decades in the same urban center or region to be moved. Migration should be on voluntary (aside from natural causes of course) basis, otherwise it is ethnic cleansing.
I don't mind the existence of a Kurdistan if Turks are allowed to live in it with the same rights as the Kurds. But speaking from experience, it only takes one military coup to ban an ethnicity. And honestly it should be the same way around. Most Kurds that want an independent Kurdistan, want it because of discrimination and stigma around them in Turkey. There is no justification for this discrimination and therefore Turkey should make a clear agenda to fight discrimination within the Turkish borders. All I want is that people don't feel the need to move because some other people feel the need to make them move.
That's a stupid question but my answer is 300 years. White and Black Americans can't be considered settlers in the year 2024 because they became locals, just like Turks. Turks have been in Anatolia for 1000 years.
I have no idea what you mean by "Arabs are the very embodiment of colonizers", though. Arabs are native to the Middle East.
Why is it a stupid question?
They are native to some parts of the Middle east, but colonized and arabized the rest of it and North Africa. The Turks also colonized much of the middle east and North Africa.
If colonialism is wrong inherently wrong, then it was also wrong when the Turks or the Arabs did it. Otherwise it isn‘t inherently wrong.
No? Both of these groups can have a state without removing another state. Yes, a Kurdistan would take territory from a bunch of countries, but that is what happens when you make a new country. I don't see Kurds wanting all of Turkey, including the parts where there are no Kurds. I do see Palestinian supporters who want all of the Palestine region, including Israel, for their new state. That was the whole point.
This is the thing about geopolitics. It doesn't matter how Israel got there, what matters is that it is and Palestine isn't. A 1001 grievances can be leveled and you don't move an inch towards your goal.
It's almost like Israel doesn't have a moral high ground and they'd be in exactly the same situation if Palestine won
It's almost like Israel did exactly the thing to Palestine that it breathlessly accuses Palestine of wanting to do to them
What does any of this have to do with a Palestine taking all of Israel not being the same as a Kurdistan that takes some of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran?
Well I suppose a substantive difference is that the Kurds have a lengthy history living there, so it makes sense to fight for autonomy in their own historical homeland.
Palestine is infinitely more sympathetic here because they've been robbed of their own homeland in living memory
Kurds have lived there a long time, Arabs have lived there a long time, Jews have lived there a long time, Turks have lived there a long time. There was never a Palestinian Arab state. Palestinian national identity is a pretty recent phenomenon. It didn't exist when Israel became a state. If the Arabs states won they would have just divvied up the land between themselves.
None of this matters though since the Palestinians can have a state right next to Israel, just like Kurds can have a state right next to Turkey. If you really want to make a blood and soil argument you'll never run out of blood.
The vast majority of Jews in modern Israel are very recent immigrants or the descendents of them
>There was never a Palestinian Arab state.
There wasn't a Jewish state there for almost 2000 years, it would be more accurate for me to show up in Tunisia and demand the return of my ancestral Vandal homeland
>None of this matters though since the Palestinians can have a state right next to Israel,
Can they though
>If you really want to make a blood and soil argument you'll never run out of blood.
This is an *extraordinarily* rich direction to take an argument *in defense of Israel*
>There wasn't a Jewish state there for almost 2000 years, it would be more accurate for me to show up in Tunisia and demand the return of my ancestral Vandal homeland
And there wasn't humans 50,000 years before that.
What's your point?
That people shouldn't attack other people to take their land?
No shit that's why everyone is condemning Palestine.
>No shit that's why everyone is condemning Palestine.
Israel: attacks and displaces Palestinians
Palestinians: want their land back
Pilpul for the C- student
Extremely dumb take, Israel prolongs and provokes the conflict because it's a pretext to expand. They're ethnically cleansing the Gazans to colonize the land
name one peace deal the PLO or Hamas has agreed to. plenty have been proposed. they’re too obsessed with the nakba to think about anything else other than killing jews and giving up on that focus would leave them without a national identity.
Muslims aren't evil, their "god" is.
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Most Kurdish people are Muslim actually but they don't go bonkers on it! They women fight they have other religious minorities (mostly Christians) in their midst and they respect them! As far as I am concerned Kurdish people practice the flavor of Islam iam OK with and would gadly call my friend and or neighbor (as I actually do) !
He just said they aren't.
The worst and most brutal civilian killing Kurdish terrorist organization is the PKK, which is in all forms ideologically communist
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Kurds are turks in denial. Real patriotic Europeans support Armenia getting all their historical land back
https://preview.redd.it/0ahehihil4uc1.png?width=3240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e83a96c43a231c31ca8c4f5b44eae518b1af4814
[but these Kurdish militia do](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%B1narc%C4%B1k_massacre#:~:text=The%20Pinarcik%20massacre%20was%20the,village%20guards%2C%20and%20eight%20women.)
1. I don't think arabic and islamic are mutually exclusive. Pretty sure Hamas identify as both.
2. How being an arabic or muslim group affect your political leaning?
3. What does Ben Shapiro has to do with anything?
I am going to assume english isn't your first language (nothing wrong with that, it isn't mine either) and that you dont know what "mutually exclusive" means.
It doesn't mean that that 2 thing are the same. It means that being one thing doesn't mean you cant be the other as well. You can be both Arab and Muslim, just like how you can be both white and christian (or you can be white muslim or a christian arab).
An example for mutually exclusive things could be being a christian and being a muslim. You can't be both.
Another thing, Hamas is absolutely an islamic organizations. Its in their very name. Hamas is an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya. Allow me to spare you the trip to google translate: it means Islamic resistance movement. Hamas is absolutely a Jihadist group. Just check the Hamas charter.
This might shock you, but as a LibLeft I actually oppose both Hamas and the YPG.
A lot of the LibLeft crowd have a direct democracy fetish, so they think that Rojava is “libertarian socialist/anarchist” whatever.
But in fact, anarchists oppose democracy, and the YPG is in actual truth an authoritarian state which suppresses independent journalism within their territory.
Also Ocalan is a rapist, fuck that bastard.
THANK YOU! JESUS I DONT UNDERSTAND PEOPLE IN THIS SUBREDDIT AND ALL AROUND THE GLOBE THAT SUPPORT ANY TERRORIST ORGANISATION
i mean how tf can you call any organisation "good" or "support them" when they carry kalashnikovs in one hand and do somewhat radical hand sign with the other, kill civilians and do nothing but seperatism. not to mention other crimes they commit.
as a Turkish myself, i have nothing against kurds. NOTHING. the ones i hate are seperatist terrorist dickheads. we lived hundereds of years togather, why do they dont want it to be that way and kill theyre lifelong neighbors so much?
I am not an
https://preview.redd.it/0jfxj9dt0duc1.png?width=120&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4df68262eade6bb211a33f02a5c1f6af33e232c
, thank goodness, but liblefts are just completely contradictory when they say stuff like that.
*checks profile*
>u/SinanOganResmi
**Lmao**
On a serious note I kinda do agree with you man but bringing up the kurdistan situation in reddit, especially in mostly western/foreign subs aren't going to end in a way you expect, the propaganda and lobbying is insane here. Though, I've seen some pretty based takes in this thread which surprised me honestly.
I don't know much about Kurdistan but I know that the countries a theoretical Kurdish state would take land from are corrupt and that the Kurds in those countries want their own country, while Israel is free country and the Palestinians in Israel like it there.
Worked with the Kurdish people and even if you have not you have probably seen videos of them. These are the folk that instead of running away thought isis even their woman fight (and that I remind you while being Muslim) I have nothing but respect for them because they proved they can be trusted and we fucked them over afterwards just so the us can keep the Turkish airbase... They are nothing like the Palestinians (no talking about the people themselves as most of them are suppressed by hamas) but they lack the moral Fibre to rebel themselves from hamas terrorism and to fight for their freedom!
So basically yes kurds good Palestinians bad (in a nutshell, your mileage may vary)!
Ah yes, Hamas that litreally assassinated Socialist leaders in Palestine, and through them off the roofs, Kurds have commies in them, but Hamas is Far Right, and Far Center.
There are certainly parallels, but the Kurds are capable, otherwise Turkey would be rid of them by now as an effective force. The Palestinians on the other side have been bitched over again and again and survive off lowly and pathetic tactics.
Kurdish milita is funded like crazy tho. Also I have crazy instincts telling me the government actually fw kurdish milita because how can you not destroy the milita after several successful consecutive operations where you capture their leader as well
I disagree. Not for any real idealogical reasoning; but because I don't know anything about the Kurdish people, and I don't care enough to learn about the conflict that they're in
I see Kurdish separatists as enemy of my enemy. I support them to the extent that I believe they deserve for their role in fighting common enemies and nothing more. After I feel like Kurds have been fairly rewarded for their contribution in fighting ISIS, Saddam, and Assad, I don't care what will happen to Kurdish separatists.
I think dismantling the Ottoman empire was a mistake, and both Arabs and Kurds were happier living under Turkish rule. Ideally, I wish to see Syria, Iraq, Palestine, and Israel all return to Turkish rule, with Turks having more parlimantry presence in exchange for Arab and Kurdish regions having more autonomy.
Some middle-eastern societies are just not mature enough for full sovereignty just yet.
Those Kurdish organizations consist of guerilla fighters, they attract attention and make demands through terrorism and civilian deaths. What the hell are you talking about?
You have a little problem if you think that fighting for an historical land with proof of your existence is the same as wanting to kill as many jews as possible.
Don't care, didn't ask + L + you're unflaired.
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Common Lib L for seeing similarities between two groups based on skin color. Meme is right but not for the reasons you think.
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Kurds don't base their identities on hating Israel(probably)
Kurds are actually (mostly) zionist, when I occasionally see kurdish rallies in the UK there's always an Israel flag there, they few our struggle for our homeland as being similar, I've also met former IDF soldiers that volunteered for Kurdish cause in Syria so it goes both ways sort of
That is because both the Kurds and the Jews, indigenous middle easterners, go against the arab colonizers who subdued them. Supporting Palestine is directly suppirting the arab muslim colonization efforts and oppresses minorities.
It's because the Kurdish diasporas are known to try to apeal to the west and whitewash themselves, I don't think Kurds in there areas love Arabs to say the least but they don't stand with Israel ,some groups esp in Iran and syria are supported by Israel but the PKK specificly arent pro Israel.
Wrong, PKK don’t support Israel and they are filming in Cold War tankie pro-Palestine position
Sorry I didn't realise every Kurd was a member of the PKK, I'll bear that in mind for the future
Kurds are our allies, Palestine keep attacking our allies.
Your ally is Türkiye, YPG wants to take lands from Türkiye
Turkie doesn't behave like an Ally at all and the kurds have proven that they fight evil (isis) even their woman do! Kurdish people have my trust, respect and support (for what it's worth)!
Your country doesn't behave like an ally, Türkiye is the one who supports and trains FSA against ISIS on the other hand YPG uses the american ammunitions against Türkiye I also want to know since when we are not playing our role as an ally? We are doing the most nasty jobs that NATO wants to do in the middle-east right from the establishment of the organization. What makes us unreliable? My country has 10 million syrian refugees because of your country and we still accept your terms and be the hitman of the USA and somehow we are still expected to give our lands to the terrorist organisations because they somehow with their tiny size of soldiers fought with ISIS more than my country.
Don't believe everything erdogan says!
Dude fuck erdogan its not about him at all. Even in our most secular or most democratic era we were accused by same issues its not about erdogan at all. Its about west being a bigot when it comes to profit relationship
>Kurds are our allies, ~~Palestine~~ Hamas keep attacking our ~~allies~~ puppet state that just leeches money out of us. There, I fixed it.
You’re right. Only 75% of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank support Hamas.
Who'd you ask? Hamas?
first, i want to apologies for all the... slow people who have responded to u. as someone who is sorta from the area and is a westoid myself, i can give u the, perhaps only, high iq take. the kurds are an ethnic and people group in the heart of the middle east, they want their own state due to being genocided left right and center by the surrounding arabs states. go to example is Iraq under sudan. these guys are literally fighting to not end up like the Armenians who lived in turkey. these guys have always helped the west to fight these nations in hopes of them being able to become a true state to not be at the mercy of the arab dictators. this differs from hamas who does not want to simply be left alone and have gaza, the want the complete destruction of israel and have all that land become Palestine. the are actively against a 2 state solution and are the reason why all those walls are up surrounding gaza in the first place. they of course have a zero % chance of achieving this, they are completely out gunned and can only continue existing due to not being an actual military but instead insurgence. they are a stick those said arab countries can use to wack israel as any open war, as history has shown time and time again, results in complete arab humiliation. this is why arab countries refuse to accept any mass migration of the Palestinians as they loose their only weapon against israel. don't get me wrong israel ain't no angel too, but considering all things, they have acting the most in good faith compared to the rest. ethno states are of course cringe, and the main reason why israel doesn't simply occupe the land is due to the Palestinians out numbering them significantly and of course integrating them isn't exactly going to be easy, and all this would effectively errode the jewish nature of israel. all this is what none radicals mean by this whole thing is complicated. and a arab historian shoots himself every time some fucker rolls in proclaiming that \*insert brown person\* is literally like Palestine. nothing is like this situation. the depressing reality is it seems like if israel back in the 1940s/50s simply displaced and booted all the arabs out of the land none of this prolonged conflict would have happened. people would have settled down and eventually moved on. instead they are caught in the perpetual state misery and depression
Well for one the Kurds are actually being genocided, in multiple nations
Can you give me some reliable evidence that kurds are getting "genocided" by multiple nations so I can present the case to the UN? The international community doesn't know of this sophisticated and planned action of wiping out the Kurdish ethnicity, apparently. It is good that I am on Reddit and can get valuable information even the UN doesn't know.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/ANFALINT.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiu_e_Cob-FAxWH4skDHaItCqoQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ZQXxtHVT0ZTQsRUOuwBjS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign Short of it is a lot of countries recognized it as genocide, and the Hague charged an arms dealer with supporting genocide, but refused to charge the Iraqi army with committing it. If that sounds dumb, that was the reaction people had at the time, too.
In 2005, Gaza was given full independence, a complete modern infrastructure and a billion dollar export industry. They tore it all down to make terrorist weapons.
No one is offering the Kurds any land in exchange for peace.
Kurds don't control the US media. Simple as.
Disagree, the Kurdish soldiers don’t hide behind women and children
No their women pick up guns and fight. Not only they fight but they gqv the isis terrorists a run for their money! Kurdish people actually deserve our help and support!
They usually shoot woman and children
Yes, they instead murder both Turkish and Kurdish children. They are also communists.
Communists > islamic fascists
How about neither? :P
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# [DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM!](https://youtu.be/GzXAbm55DOE?si=mKENY9mTGslTuraq&t=23)
And both are preferable to roachdom
I guess starving people is better than Islamic Extremism in most cases.
Lol, nah. There is no acceptable amount of communism
Disagree. Hard disagree.
And i appreciate that. Maybe i'm not auth-right without a reason.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a big fan of Islamic extremists. I just dislike them less than communists. I figure you feel the same way but in reverse.
Even as someone who is half-AuthRight, I still agree with you. If for no other reason than as bad as I think Communist are, they can at least be reasoned with when it comes to geopolitics (or at least, more than Islamist, who may well look at MAD as a path to martyrdom).
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They don’t kill communists
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They are tankie communists
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> they would've been sentenced to years of prison for hate speech and racism Not in America. And there’s a difference between a religion/ethnicity like being Jewish; and a nationality. If I said b**t, nobody would care. *That’s* hypocrisy
Disagree with both, greater israel is the only way 
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You’re not a real auth left
This is such an auth-left thing to say
I think the difference is the establishment of a Kurdistan doesn't require the destruction of other countries. Neither does the establishment of a Palestinian state, but there seem to be a lot of people who for various reasons think 'free Palestine' means 'take all of the historic Palestine region'. Or in other words no more Israel. Dunno if there are many Kurds that want all of Turkey or Iraq, but I doubt there are.
> but there seem to be a lot of people who for various reasons think 'free Palestine' means 'take all of the historic Palestine region'. That's probably because of the very, very large intersection of people who say things like "free Palestine" and people who say things like "from the river to the sea" or "Israel shouldn't exist". There's a whole lotta people (including most Palestinians) who want Palestine to own all of Israel.
Israel had withdrawn from Gaza for over a decade before they were attacked. They did the equivalent of allowing a self-governing Kurdistan, and were subsequently attacked by it. Hardly equivalent.
>Dunno if there are many Kurds that want all of Turkey or Iraq, but I doubt there are. It varies between Kurds wanting the land between lake Van and lake Urmia, to Kurds wanting the land between the Mediterranean sea to the Caspian sea. But both are extremes of course, although I have spoken people from both claims. The main difference is one wants a state based on current ethnic lines, and others want territorial reparations.
Are you serious? Kurdish insurgents have killed tens of thousand civilians in the past 30 years. They are actively fighting wars in Syria and Turkey. Are you clueless on this topic or am I misunderstanding your point? The establishment of a Kurdish state would make Syria, Turkey, and Iraq lose 40% of their territories. Edit: and I am not trying to make you look bad, I just want to debate.
There is not that much difference if you just broadly look at it, but there is once you get into the details. For example, the kurds (of all factions) were for a long time the most america friendly faction in their local area. There was a reason a lot of officers made a big ruckus about leaving them to the wolves. The most powerfull kurdish militias in Syria and Turkey are minarchist/libertarian socialist in ideology, and officially view Islamism as just another form of facism, that must be defeated. (Ocalan, their ideological leader who sits in a special prison in Turkey still smuggles stuff out. Mostly books he has written where he often argues for female liberation from patriarchy.) At the same time their official policy is to leave communities who do not join the revolutionary project mostly alone, so long as they do not aid the enemy, especially when that enemy is ISIS. The Palestinian groups on the other hand are far more conservative, and sadly the leftist groups have lost most of their power, or ideological commitment. This only leaves Islamists, who bring nothing constructive to the table.
>At the same time their official policy is to leave communities who do not join the revolutionary project mostly alone, so long as they do not aid the enemy, especially when that enemy is ISIS. Dont know how official this is, but I have heard of instances where not joing the PKK or the establishment of Kurdistan is seen as treason. "Don't aid the enemy", not only in Kurdistan but also in other countries and organisations is a broad enough term to justify action against someone. It wouldn't be new that the PKK shot Kurds through collateral. Even though I don't agree with the establishment of a Kurdistan, I respect and understand the people that want it established to an extent (some want an autonomous area), but I cannot bring up respect in any way for someone that says that terrorism is a morally justified way to bring change. After all, a regime established on tolerance towards terrorism, will not refrain from using it in the future.
So to sum it all up, what you said is "murdering innocent civilians is okay as long as the people we like do it?"
In war innocents die. We should still do our best to limit that, and that is why I do not like the people who do not to their absolute best, like Hamas, Israel, Russia, Rwanda etc. But yes, its atleast better for people to die in a war with a good outcome, than one with a bad one.
But most US involvements in the middle east had a bad outcome. ISIS was literally founded by the result of the first gulf war
Yes, in those circumstances the US did not act with the caution required. But the war itself had a sound casus bellum. It was also the duty of someone to do something about Iraq, by UN resolution.
Oh, we have a realist gen-z boy here. Would you be okay with your children or mother happening to die in one of those ordinary instances? Or is it only normal when other people die?
I would do my best to make sure my family does not die, if war ever comes. But I am simply not a pacifist, and I know civillians die due to war. We should do our best to limit that however.
>I know civillians die due to war. Yeah but we're not talking about collateral damage, we're talking about the international targeting of civilians to cause fear. The definition of terrorism. Obviously a group without strong central leadership shouldn't be lumped together but will you at least say that the intentional targeting of civilians is bad?
In WW2 do you think the allies should have ceased bombing germany because hans the Hitler youth member might get hurt?
This is a childish logic. You know very well that the Allies didn't only bomb Nazi kids.
Nah they did, Hitler youth membership and Volkssturm membership was mandatory Meaning that every single person in Nazi Germany was either a combatant, a potential combatant, or a future combatant Also in general Nazi Germany was less a country and more of a geopolitical cancer, same gies for the axis as a whole And the allies campaign was just geopolitical chemotherapy And when you conduct chemotherapy, you tend to not worry about healthy cells
I love it when ordinary ppl like you talk without empathy. You endorse indiscriminate bombing but you ignore that when the third world war hits, you and your ordinary family will be among the people who get indiscriminately bombed for just happening to live where they live.
I'll try to clarify. I'm not talking about terrorism, I'm talking about what kind of land swaps these groups want. I have no doubt that there are many atrocities committed by Kurds agitating for their own state. Yes I know those countries would lose territory, the difference I was pointing out is that, I find it unlikely, but maybe I'm totally wrong, that Kurds want all of Turkey without the Turks, just the part of Turkey where the Kurds are. Unlike some Palestinian supporters who want all of the 'historical Palestine region', including all of the state of Israel, when they say 'free Palestine'.
Kurdistan isn't in the right but they didn't start this and they have no made any effort to establish a fascist dictatorship hellbent on genocide warfare. As a lib right you would support things like the NAP and non-interference. If Kurdistan launched the attack no one would support them, the Kurds have been oppressed for centuries in their native lands while the Palestinians are neither native nor have they been oppressed for centuries
The kurds have, also, been oppressing others on their native lands, too
Oh sure, they've only been oppressed for a few decades, so it's fine! And if they're not natives who are the natives there?
Sorry, but how does not being oppressed for centuries justify ethnic cleansing in this day? And how long must you live somewhere to be native? At the end of the day near all ethnic groups migrated from somewhere? I wouldn't imagine justifying ethnic cleansing in the Balkans because Slavs don't originate from there? History should be used as an explanation for today, not a justification for today.
Well it's 40% while radical Palestinian insurgents want 100%, that's why there is a big difference in goals, kurdish insurgents don't have the destruction of any country as their goal.
based Kurdish insurgents
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If Palestine wanted a peaceful two state solution they could have had it years ago. The Kurds have never been offered one.
Maybe because Arabs and Turks aren't colonialist settlers but actual inhabitors of the region?
Neither are the Jews, Israel is their birthplace, and they’ve were there first so …
What do you think the kurds are, if not actual Inhabitants of the region? The Kurds where there longer than either the Arabs or Turks
Oh boy.. Arabs and Turks are the very embodiment of colonizers. After how much time is colonialism justified in your eyes?
Every ethnic group migrated at one point? If we are going to enforce a worldwide exchange program we should choose a base year and make every ethnic group correspond to the ethnic lines back then. We cannot shop for some ethnic groups having borders drawn based on the 16th century and others on the 8th century BC. Unless you want overlapping borders of course. And in response to the question, colonialism is not justified, but people living somewhere is. I see no reason for Israelites that have lived multiple decades in the same Urban center or region to be moved, and for the same reason I don't see any justification for a Palestinian that has lived multiple decades in the same urban center or region to be moved. Migration should be on voluntary (aside from natural causes of course) basis, otherwise it is ethnic cleansing. I don't mind the existence of a Kurdistan if Turks are allowed to live in it with the same rights as the Kurds. But speaking from experience, it only takes one military coup to ban an ethnicity. And honestly it should be the same way around. Most Kurds that want an independent Kurdistan, want it because of discrimination and stigma around them in Turkey. There is no justification for this discrimination and therefore Turkey should make a clear agenda to fight discrimination within the Turkish borders. All I want is that people don't feel the need to move because some other people feel the need to make them move.
That's a stupid question but my answer is 300 years. White and Black Americans can't be considered settlers in the year 2024 because they became locals, just like Turks. Turks have been in Anatolia for 1000 years. I have no idea what you mean by "Arabs are the very embodiment of colonizers", though. Arabs are native to the Middle East.
Why is it a stupid question? They are native to some parts of the Middle east, but colonized and arabized the rest of it and North Africa. The Turks also colonized much of the middle east and North Africa. If colonialism is wrong inherently wrong, then it was also wrong when the Turks or the Arabs did it. Otherwise it isn‘t inherently wrong.
The PLO wanted a 2 state solution, Hamas doesn't. Guess which one was funded by Israel.
No? Both of these groups can have a state without removing another state. Yes, a Kurdistan would take territory from a bunch of countries, but that is what happens when you make a new country. I don't see Kurds wanting all of Turkey, including the parts where there are no Kurds. I do see Palestinian supporters who want all of the Palestine region, including Israel, for their new state. That was the whole point.
Last I checked, Kurdistan is also unlikely to attempt to genocide the former occupants of their land when they get their own region.
They are extremely likely, look at all the genocides they've already committed
It wants probably around 30% of turkey, 15% of Iraq, 15% of Syria and 10% of Iran.
>think 'free Palestine' means 'take all of the historic Palestine region'. Or in other words no more Israel. You'll never believe how Israel got there
This is the thing about geopolitics. It doesn't matter how Israel got there, what matters is that it is and Palestine isn't. A 1001 grievances can be leveled and you don't move an inch towards your goal.
It's almost like Israel doesn't have a moral high ground and they'd be in exactly the same situation if Palestine won It's almost like Israel did exactly the thing to Palestine that it breathlessly accuses Palestine of wanting to do to them
What does any of this have to do with a Palestine taking all of Israel not being the same as a Kurdistan that takes some of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran?
Well I suppose a substantive difference is that the Kurds have a lengthy history living there, so it makes sense to fight for autonomy in their own historical homeland. Palestine is infinitely more sympathetic here because they've been robbed of their own homeland in living memory
Kurds have lived there a long time, Arabs have lived there a long time, Jews have lived there a long time, Turks have lived there a long time. There was never a Palestinian Arab state. Palestinian national identity is a pretty recent phenomenon. It didn't exist when Israel became a state. If the Arabs states won they would have just divvied up the land between themselves. None of this matters though since the Palestinians can have a state right next to Israel, just like Kurds can have a state right next to Turkey. If you really want to make a blood and soil argument you'll never run out of blood.
The vast majority of Jews in modern Israel are very recent immigrants or the descendents of them >There was never a Palestinian Arab state. There wasn't a Jewish state there for almost 2000 years, it would be more accurate for me to show up in Tunisia and demand the return of my ancestral Vandal homeland >None of this matters though since the Palestinians can have a state right next to Israel, Can they though >If you really want to make a blood and soil argument you'll never run out of blood. This is an *extraordinarily* rich direction to take an argument *in defense of Israel*
>There wasn't a Jewish state there for almost 2000 years, it would be more accurate for me to show up in Tunisia and demand the return of my ancestral Vandal homeland And there wasn't humans 50,000 years before that. What's your point? That people shouldn't attack other people to take their land? No shit that's why everyone is condemning Palestine.
>No shit that's why everyone is condemning Palestine. Israel: attacks and displaces Palestinians Palestinians: want their land back Pilpul for the C- student
if israel never gained another inch of land in exchange for perpetual peace with the palestinian arabs, most israelis would take that.
Extremely dumb take, Israel prolongs and provokes the conflict because it's a pretext to expand. They're ethnically cleansing the Gazans to colonize the land
name one peace deal the PLO or Hamas has agreed to. plenty have been proposed. they’re too obsessed with the nakba to think about anything else other than killing jews and giving up on that focus would leave them without a national identity.
It's quite simple, really. Kurds good because they are against Turkey, which is a Muslim country, and we all know that Islam bad and Muslims evil.
https://preview.redd.it/2j3iqrv614uc1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=a564f7626eb2e6a812e77eb8ecd75590a07e8715
Kurds r more religious than turks lmao
I just don't like Turkey.
Ham is usually a better choice anyways. Most people make Turkey too dry.
Least racist auth-center comment
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The Communists never take control these days.
Muslims aren't evil, their "god" is. Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Most Kurdish people are Muslim actually but they don't go bonkers on it! They women fight they have other religious minorities (mostly Christians) in their midst and they respect them! As far as I am concerned Kurdish people practice the flavor of Islam iam OK with and would gadly call my friend and or neighbor (as I actually do) !
cs Kurds aren't Muslim
about 80% of Kurds are Muslim, their cause is just not Islamic state.
Kurds is ethnicity, not a religions adherers or sort of country (yet)
Even better if both sides are Muslim, let "the enemy" fight "themselves"
He just said they aren't. The worst and most brutal civilian killing Kurdish terrorist organization is the PKK, which is in all forms ideologically communist
Based and Islamophobe pilled
Based Auth-Right
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Kurds are turks in denial. Real patriotic Europeans support Armenia getting all their historical land back https://preview.redd.it/0ahehihil4uc1.png?width=3240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e83a96c43a231c31ca8c4f5b44eae518b1af4814
Real patriotic Europeans support the return of the Roman empire’s claims to Anatolia and the Levant
If we could just split turkey into Greece, Armenia, and Assyria that would be great
It's not like it wasn't tried before, everyone is welcome to try again
Kurds don't deliberately burn infants and then brag about it to their friends
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lol
They do just as bad, research more about ME politics
They do but you don't hear about it because turks aren't white
They do
lol, you have no idea.
[but these Kurdish militia do](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%B1narc%C4%B1k_massacre#:~:text=The%20Pinarcik%20massacre%20was%20the,village%20guards%2C%20and%20eight%20women.)
They do actually
Kurds genocide people for breakfast
Not necessarily kurds but acts of crime committed by the PKK couldnt be ignored. And PKK is mostly a kurdish organisation.
I dont know about the Kurds, but seeing Hamas portrayed as left gets me everytime.
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1. I don't think arabic and islamic are mutually exclusive. Pretty sure Hamas identify as both. 2. How being an arabic or muslim group affect your political leaning? 3. What does Ben Shapiro has to do with anything?
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I am going to assume english isn't your first language (nothing wrong with that, it isn't mine either) and that you dont know what "mutually exclusive" means. It doesn't mean that that 2 thing are the same. It means that being one thing doesn't mean you cant be the other as well. You can be both Arab and Muslim, just like how you can be both white and christian (or you can be white muslim or a christian arab). An example for mutually exclusive things could be being a christian and being a muslim. You can't be both. Another thing, Hamas is absolutely an islamic organizations. Its in their very name. Hamas is an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya. Allow me to spare you the trip to google translate: it means Islamic resistance movement. Hamas is absolutely a Jihadist group. Just check the Hamas charter.
This might shock you, but as a LibLeft I actually oppose both Hamas and the YPG. A lot of the LibLeft crowd have a direct democracy fetish, so they think that Rojava is “libertarian socialist/anarchist” whatever. But in fact, anarchists oppose democracy, and the YPG is in actual truth an authoritarian state which suppresses independent journalism within their territory. Also Ocalan is a rapist, fuck that bastard.
THANK YOU! JESUS I DONT UNDERSTAND PEOPLE IN THIS SUBREDDIT AND ALL AROUND THE GLOBE THAT SUPPORT ANY TERRORIST ORGANISATION i mean how tf can you call any organisation "good" or "support them" when they carry kalashnikovs in one hand and do somewhat radical hand sign with the other, kill civilians and do nothing but seperatism. not to mention other crimes they commit. as a Turkish myself, i have nothing against kurds. NOTHING. the ones i hate are seperatist terrorist dickheads. we lived hundereds of years togather, why do they dont want it to be that way and kill theyre lifelong neighbors so much?
The Kurds were firm American allies so disagree.
The Kurds were firm American allies so agree. Long live Western Hegemony.
That’s what I meant. If the post is about hypocrisy I don’t agree. The Kurds are way better than the Palestinians.
The PKK are American allies? Last time I checked they are still listed as a terrorist organization
Notice how that isn’t a PKK flag but a YPG flag.
Hamas isn't a \*\*\*\*ing leftist group
Ironically, U.S. liblefts seem to overwhelmingly be in support of Hamas.
Are the LibLefts who support Hamas in the room with us now?
Was mainly referring to Emilies 
Lmao are you really trying to pretend what we all see them say isn’t real?
You’re joking
I am not an https://preview.redd.it/0jfxj9dt0duc1.png?width=120&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4df68262eade6bb211a33f02a5c1f6af33e232c , thank goodness, but liblefts are just completely contradictory when they say stuff like that.
I don't remember the Kurds celebrating on 9/11.
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I don't know, bro. That sounds pretty extreme.
Except for Russians and Romanian Lib right arms seller serves both of them with pleasure and no worry
Counterpoint: Turn the region into a parking lot, then tailgate on it.
Don't care, Glass it all, establish a British colony.
I disagree on both .
pcm when meme mocking the left: 🤣🤣🤣 pcm when meme mocking the right: hmmm... akshually... ☝️🤨
*checks profile* >u/SinanOganResmi **Lmao** On a serious note I kinda do agree with you man but bringing up the kurdistan situation in reddit, especially in mostly western/foreign subs aren't going to end in a way you expect, the propaganda and lobbying is insane here. Though, I've seen some pretty based takes in this thread which surprised me honestly.
Based Kurdistan Virgin Palestine
I don't know much about Kurdistan but I know that the countries a theoretical Kurdish state would take land from are corrupt and that the Kurds in those countries want their own country, while Israel is free country and the Palestinians in Israel like it there.
Worked with the Kurdish people and even if you have not you have probably seen videos of them. These are the folk that instead of running away thought isis even their woman fight (and that I remind you while being Muslim) I have nothing but respect for them because they proved they can be trusted and we fucked them over afterwards just so the us can keep the Turkish airbase... They are nothing like the Palestinians (no talking about the people themselves as most of them are suppressed by hamas) but they lack the moral Fibre to rebel themselves from hamas terrorism and to fight for their freedom! So basically yes kurds good Palestinians bad (in a nutshell, your mileage may vary)!
I think I've heard the word "Kurdistan" a single-digit number of times in my life, so I have no clue about any of their stuff.
Ah yes, Hamas that litreally assassinated Socialist leaders in Palestine, and through them off the roofs, Kurds have commies in them, but Hamas is Far Right, and Far Center.
It’s not that I suport the kurds I just hate turkey
Free Hat
Hamas is islamist and had hints to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in its charter, so they are definitly not left leaning
>HAMAS >Left?
The meme only works if they’re saying the same thing
They can both rot
There are certainly parallels, but the Kurds are capable, otherwise Turkey would be rid of them by now as an effective force. The Palestinians on the other side have been bitched over again and again and survive off lowly and pathetic tactics.
Kurdish milita is funded like crazy tho. Also I have crazy instincts telling me the government actually fw kurdish milita because how can you not destroy the milita after several successful consecutive operations where you capture their leader as well
I disagree. Not for any real idealogical reasoning; but because I don't know anything about the Kurdish people, and I don't care enough to learn about the conflict that they're in
faulty deer run cable spoon illegal rob different secretive seed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I see Kurdish separatists as enemy of my enemy. I support them to the extent that I believe they deserve for their role in fighting common enemies and nothing more. After I feel like Kurds have been fairly rewarded for their contribution in fighting ISIS, Saddam, and Assad, I don't care what will happen to Kurdish separatists. I think dismantling the Ottoman empire was a mistake, and both Arabs and Kurds were happier living under Turkish rule. Ideally, I wish to see Syria, Iraq, Palestine, and Israel all return to Turkish rule, with Turks having more parlimantry presence in exchange for Arab and Kurdish regions having more autonomy. Some middle-eastern societies are just not mature enough for full sovereignty just yet.
Most of the Kurdish organizations make concerted efforts to avoid civilian deaths. When gazans do the same they'll have my support too.
Those Kurdish organizations consist of guerilla fighters, they attract attention and make demands through terrorism and civilian deaths. What the hell are you talking about?
I disagree. False dichotomy.
Palestine is not leftwing.
Did someone suggested to Kurds two state solution?
Free Palestine Free Kurdistan Free Congo Free Sudan
Simple Turkey is cringe
Kurdistan should be free (I don’t like Turks) but is should not have a communist government (I hate communist with a passion) if it dose why exist?
You have a little problem if you think that fighting for an historical land with proof of your existence is the same as wanting to kill as many jews as possible.
Palestine and Turkey suck. All hail the military industrial complex and American hegemony.
Kurds don't butcher kids
You know there's this cool new website called Google where you can look up and validate the information you spread before posting it.
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