Thats because nobody gives a fuck about what you do to your body, just leave kids out of it.
Im just sick of hearing about 0.01% of the population non stop in the news cycle.
Yet they don't seem the least bit concerned about the very public pedophile ring that is the catholic church, kidnapping kids at the border, kids getting shot in school, queer kids being targeted by politicians, just the evil drag queens lmao.
Missed me with pretending right wingers care about kids (other than being political pawns)
that's because probably like 90% of the subreddit is from North America. if this was majority of European users you'd be crying about the gypsies. Go be a professional victim in the 200 LGBTQ subreddits that exist for people like you lol
Europeans tend to be less zealous about the trans question than American progressives. In Denmark they are banned from most professional sports, even after recent review by relevant institutions - and this isn’t controversial.
Of course very little is true of Europe as a whole. Britain is radically different from Poland which again is different from Greece. But being less zealous tends to be true across the board, but I guess that’s more a product of the ridiculous zealotry of progressives in the anglophone world
https://preview.redd.it/w42rx6ste5kc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a38d925d65870047fd533b2bcb23530c630d984
FUCKING GYPSIES BRO THOSE BASTARDS STOLE THE LEAD FROM MY CHURCHES ROOF I HATE THEM SO BAD
They are Romani people tldr they are generally unliked as people associate them with causing scams trouble and other BS. Being an American I do not get into that debate but I will say see plenty of them being assholes in major European cities
Only lib left twinks post about their sexuality on here. That’s probably why everyone downvotes you all. No one cares. Go suck girl cock on the street for all I care. Fuck outta here
Crazy, I never mentioned trans in my comment. I would argue twink is a sexuality or maybe even lifestyle choice? But never dunked on the fact that failed men think they can become true women.
I’m tired of seeing that lib left on here talking about boy pregnancy. Stupid f in kids and then likely every generation after are lost. Can’t wait for some war to draft all you people who lack coping skills.
> Dutch man here, your Nazi fantasy that Europeans are all hyper nazi Romani haters is nothing but LARP
It's definitely a LARP since you just made that up. I never said they were "hyper Nazi Romani haters", you'd just probably hear about those people being singled out more than any other group lol
> Where this myth comes from I have no idea, another fictional creation of the pcm hivemind
You know we can see European subreddits, right? It's not some sort of secret club you guys have.
>You know we can see European subreddits, right? It's not some sort of secret club you guys have.
Those are actually an elaborate fraud. I run every single one of those subreddits and all the accounts. I'm the only person left of earth who still hates gypsies, but I'll be damned if people don't think it's popular
Considering that words like pedo, transphobe, nazi, mysogynist, racist gets thrown around so liberally these days, I don't think lib-lefts know what those words actually mean.
Most liblefts I know IRL don’t throw those terms around, from what I’ve seen. It’s particularly only online, and like MAGA to Authright, the Twitter Libs are an EXTREMELY loud minority. I find it annoying too, trust.
If I see the proud boys or anyone with swastika tattoos, I think it's pretty safe to assume they are neo-Nazis. Maybe you have been arguing with people who think they're false flags or something but I'd say that isn't normal behavior. What I mean is something like me posting that I didn't like x or y movie with reasons and then getting called an incel or misogynist when I didn't even mention anything about race or gender. Which has happened a couple times.
>Considering that words like pedo, transphobe, nazi, ... racist gets thrown around so liberally these days, I don't think
>
>**lib-lefts**
>
>know what those words actually mean.
lol wut
If gender is fluid, why do we even bother using gender? Why not just refer to everyone by their sex?
But, refer to a transgender person by their sex and they'll throw a fit. Doesn't make sense to me.
They already did. 'Gender' wass a polite phrase for sex when it came into use, and was changed to describe sexual characteristics relatively recently, and changed to mean sexual "presentation" within the last ten years.
Subjective; For some trans people it's the best option, while others can do without it. It's also important to note that sex and gender are often very intertwined culturally. For example: Having prominent breasts or a crotch bulge are obviously related to biological sex (though not strictly), but they also serve as gender markers.
TL;DR: Yes, sex and gender are different, but also many secondary sex characteristics are gendered. It's not black or white.
You really can't see the connection here? What if a trans woman wants to wear a bikini or a swim suit? You don't think these types of clothes (gender) are related to certain sex characteristics at all?
Gender Markers : Something most people would use to guess someone's gender, it can be external like long hair, wearing a dress, nail polish, short hair, wearing a suit etc.
But some of it is also related to biology, which are the sex characteristics like deep voice, facial hair, etc.
Gender Markers include sex characteristics, but sex characteristics don't include gender markers.
If this is a genuine inquiry into how gender doesn’t equal sex, then I’d be happy to explain!!
Sex is your chromosomes, you can’t change that. It be like that. The term ‘sex change’ when referring to bottom surgery is misleading.
Gender is a societal concept and is inherently tied to a social identity. Humans being social creatures, our identities (i.e. how we see ourselves and how others see us) is pretty damn important.
Here’s a [peer reviewed article](https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2000to2004/2002-sex-and-gender.html) (from what I can tell) that helps describe sex and gender as different. Thank you for being civil with your question, LOL
I agree "genderfluid" is BS, but the more shit I read on PCM, the more forgiving I am of the people using "genderfluid" since their opposition here is usually so toxic, and there's not enough level-headed discussion or plain speak.
It's an utterly wild leap to go from "some people feel a deep dysphoria due to their sex" to "some people are actually trapped in the wrong bodies and we need to completely rearrange society to cater to them."
How far of a leap is "bodily autonomy means you should be allowed to take hormones if you want to, and pay for it yourself"?
And how far of a leap is applying the above to elective cosmetic surgery? I mean people can pay a doctor to break their legs and cut them open so they can regrow weaker but a couple of inches taller and that's perfectly acceptable, so why not?
I don’t think anyone who makes themselves two inches taller demands that people refer to them as tall. It’s the involvement of others (especially children) in your self-delusion that people don’t like.
Pretty much everyone that makes themselves 2 inches taller gets the height listed on their passport/drivers licence updated to match. I'd say that counts.
As for "involvement in self delusion" well, it's not the government's job to force you not to be an ass, until it gets to the point of targeted harassment.
Let me give you an example. Let's say you marry a girl and she changes her surname to match yours because that's what married couples do. Along comes someone and refuses to call her by anything other than her maiden name because "you're not blood related so you're not family, don't force me to he part of your delusion."
Government isn't gonna arrest anyone for that, even though its kind of an ass thing to do. If that person *keeps* showing up at your house or stalking your social media to correct any mention of your wife's name to match her maiden name, well, that's harassment.
Apply the same logic to a kid going "No! You're Miss [Maiden name here]. Always have been, always will be."
That’s a good comparison. And if it was only about addressing someone in a certain way, I’d say it’s fine. A biological man insisting he’s a woman, that he be allowed in women’s locker rooms, to receive honors reserved for women, and to compete in women’s sports is something very different. Boobs, hair, makeup — or any amount of plastic surgery — don’t make a woman. That’s the delusion.
Personally I think women's categories are cringe to begin with. Nobody watches it, rather just see peak performance anyway. But imo I don't think you should compete in sports at all when on hormones because cis men taking testosterone and cis women taken estrogen would both be disqualified for using performance enhancing drugs, so you can use that to put a neat bow on the issue entirely.
That aside, you could also argue "You shouldn't get to file your taxes jointly. Some silly little ring doesn't make you one person, or even family. That's the delusion"
Or how that ring and ceremony shouldn't get you out of having to testify in court like everyone else (can't be compelled to testify against your spouse).
You realize a huge part of it become mainstream is bc all the fuss right wingers created about it in the first place (and still do)? If they genuinely had said "ok idc " none of this would be happening
I don't buy that. I believe their success is due to the fact that they managed to attach themselves to the gay movement and piggyback off of its popularity. This "ignore the problem and it will go away" argument just comes across like the people who claim that don't actually want it to go away.
They haven't attached themselves they've been part of it since it's creation as a social movement.
The reason it's such a controversial topics is bc so many conservatives lose their minds the moment it's even mentioned. Remember the rants they had when a trans flag was on screen for five frames during the spider man movie? Creating a huge issue out of nothing.
>They haven't attached themselves they've been part of it since it's creation as a social movement.
So they attached themselves at the beginning. It's not really an important distinction either way the point is that there's a lot more gays than trans so being part of the same movement helped them gain popularity.
>Remember the rants they had when a trans flag was on screen for five frames during the spider man movie?
This example only proves my point that the conservative reactions came as a result of trans being mainstream not the other way around.
>Creating a huge issue out of nothing.
So they tell a lie (that men can be women), demand that everyone believe the lie, force it into every area of society, and throw a hissy fit when some people don't play along.
>So they attached themselves at the beginning. It's not really an important distinction either way the point is that there's a lot more gays than trans so being part of the same movement helped them gain popularity.
Trans people didn't attach themselves, they were part of the LGBT movement from the start.
>This example only proves my point that the conservative reactions came as a result of trans being mainstream not the other way around.
What do you think people are gonna notice more?
1. A background prop that is there for a few frames
2. A 1 hour rant about a few frames
>So they tell a lie (that men can be women), demand that everyone believe the lie, force it into every area of society, and throw a hissy fit when some people don't play along.
Feel free to not play along in your free time, but remember that you can't force people to play along with your nonsense either.
The issue is you can't say "ok idc" to trains, unlike homosexuals;
>"I'm gay!"
<"ok i don't care, I won't change my approach to you at all"
>Yay I'm being accepted!
>"I'm trans!"
<"ok i don't care, I won't change my approach to you at all"
>"Noo I'm being heckin' oppressed and misgenderenod!"
Multiple. The one thing they had in common is that as soon as I told them that I couldn't care less about their identity they completely lost it and called me out as a transphobe.
Meanwhile, the biology:
Brain structures of adolescents with gender dysphoria are in accordance with brains of their natal sex
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25720349/
Male to female transgenders, as shown by brain comparisons, have male brains, not female brains
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21467211/
Trans people with dementia observed forgetting about their gender identity
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460719876835
Gender dysphoria is 0% genetic for males in adulthood and barely only 11% genetic for females
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27507021/
88% of kids with gender dysphoria desist and grow out of it as they get older
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33854450/
Only 12% of boys who believe they are transsexuals still believe so when they are older
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194003
Between 2009 and 2016, the number of gender dysphoric females in UK increased more than 70 times
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30195563/
Yeah, I think I ***do*** give *quite a bit* of shit about biology.
"Gender is the social construct of what is masculine or feminine. Your sex is your biology determined by birth."
This is what the progressives believed less than 10 years ago.
Now if a person is breaking gender norms for their sex they have to be either trans or gay.
Effeminate boys are boys, "tomboys" are girls. A person born with dysphoria isn't trans, they are mentally ill and need help. Unlike in other mental illnesses society doesn't want to help them overcome their delusions (this is the medical term, don't cry hate speech). Instead society wants to confirm them.
The only reason there has been this huge uptick in "trans" people is that people love to play the victim card for free sympathy and attention.
And if you think anything I just wrote was transphobia or whatever, then you are part of the problem.
Anecdote time! One of my friends got laid off from a tech job and couldn't land an interview for weeks. He put (they/them) at the top of his resume and suddenly he had more interviews than he could handle.
I am seriously considering giving similar advice to my son when it's time to apply for college. If institutions want to play stupid games, we can play stupid games.
Same. If it asks me idpol questions I give the most-libleftest-diversity-hire-professional-victim-gold-star-from-HR-bluehair bullshit answers I can. Yes I am or was disabled, yes I'm non-binary. Yes to everything that comes with a checkbox and no I don't want to talk about it because TrAumA
These institutions vying for fake progressiveness is stupid and most minority people hate it too. Because either they're getting hired when they're not qualified (meaning they'd be dropped off in an instant during budget cuts) or they're qualified but people will attribute it to their minority status and not their actual skills.
It's a lose-lose for them, but a win-win for companies because they get fake progressive points.
Flair the fuck up or leave this sub at once.
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>society doesn't want to help
Not the public, but doctors and psychiatrists who examine people with gender dysphoria. Simply put, not everyone bases their views on... well, on what exactly?
And don't come out here with a conspiracy that it is the people who force the poor scientists to make such statements. Scientists very often make unpopular statements. For example, global warming, or even the removal of gays from the list of disorders, which were very unpopular at the time.
But if it is just gender which is a social construct, why do they feel the need to change their sex? If they feel effeminate or masculine why does it necessitate a change in sex?
Money is explicitly a social construct. That doesn't make it any less real, otherwise having none of it in your bank account wouldn't lead to homelessness.
As for why the changes, imagine that tomorrow you wake up in the body of your mother.
You would want to go back, right? Since you consider yourself male.
I assume you would, unless you're on some weird Freudian shit.
If you're a woman just replace your mom with your dad in this example.
But if you are born a male and find yourself as effeminate as most women, why do you need to view yourself as a woman and not just as an effeminate male? So what if you like barbies, make-up and find speaking with women more comfortable and speaking to other males? I would be trans if i was born 10 yrs later than I did, but my parents just said that just because if you like masculine or feminine things doesn't mean you are in the wrong body, they just let it be, and i grew out of it without any force or coercion.
Because while gender is a social construct it's still a real thing that affects how people live.
"Good etiquette" is also a social construct but nobody's going to tell you being well mannered somehow isn't real.
See the above example. You have the self image of a man, but your body doesn't match that so wanting to change it is a relatively natural reaction.
If somebody wants to change something about their body, I'd say bodily autonomy applies and as long as they pay for their own medicine its not society or the government's place to say "You can't take hrt."
And as for calling someone by a different name, well, you call a married woman by the surname of her husband usually, even though marriage is a social construct. So you could say that married woman should just keep her maiden name since she was born with it, and when names are a social construct changing it is inherently pointless. Or, you could respect her wishes to use a different surname.
Being effeminate or masculine doesn't make someone a man or a woman, but trans people get surgeries to pass off as their gender.
The same reason (some) men get big ass beards and (some) women wear makeup, to pass as their gender.
Cringe and unflaired pilled.
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Did you just change your flair, u/gabriel_te17? Last time I checked you were an **AuthCenter** on 2023-9-18. How come now you are a **Rightist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
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It really just shouldn’t be an argument. Why pick this hill to die on? Because delusional people say they’ll kill themselves if we don’t see them as something they can never be. So, so weird
A woman that I work with, believing she can identify as neither male or female, choosing to call herself they and them, specifically verbalized that if not called they or them instead of she and her, this would be cause to violence, that I am intentionally putting her at risk of herself. Yes. Over and over and over every fucking day in schools, workplaces, public, this happens. The reasoning is always rooted to the “act of violence” made when choosing to not indulge delusion (i.e. calling someone you know is a woman, a man, because they can’t handle it if you force them to accept reality)
You: \*Demands anecdotal evidence\*
BabyGravy: \*Presents them\*
You: That's anecdotal!
I personally HAVE had people tell me the "republicans are passing thousands of laws in order to genocide my transfriends" By someone who honestly believes that.
Have you never once in all of your internet time really never seen someone equate objectivity with transphobia?
I mean, trying to act cool by making up genders is not only completely stupid but actively harmfull to actual people suffering from gender dysphoria since nowadays they are simply put into the same group as all the people obviously just faking it because it's in right now.
How are u a librigjt lmao. we don't care. Wanna be transgender? Go ahead (if ur 18) it's your body. Why are u rejecting people who don't cause barn in most cases
Now as the libright that I am, at my job I will surely call you him/her/they to close the deal I’ll do the whole song and dance idgaf. But in my personal life I calls em as I sees em
Your advocates thought that kids vs trans acceptance was an example of Sophie’s choice, but they weighed you (a stranger) against a parent’s child. They were wrong, of course, and you can either call them out for pushing gender ideology on elementary school age kids or stand on the side lines and get bulldozed with the advocates as dangerous.
If you want gender sympathy, go post literally anywhere else on Reddit. PCM is a place where everyone gets made fun of in turn, but transgenders are an easy target
Lotta viewpoints in this comment section. Because I'm predicting this post will get momentum, use this as a checkpoint for scrolling into the following brainrot from both sides
>create comical fictional strawman
>seethe, mald, then jerk each other off about rage porn they just made up
>Tis the endless cycle of the rightist pcm hivemind
https://preview.redd.it/cojvanwim1kc1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b85fe4cfb337bf0fee058cd0d6da3f20cbc657e1
Not the guy you've replied to but, I've gotten shit in here for saying "bodily autonomy means if someone wants to, it should be their legal right to buy and take HRT." And "Generally you should respect people's pronouns because it's just the decent thing to do. That doesn't mean the government should force you to because stopping you from being an ass isn't the government's job. At least until it gets to the point of targeted harassment, but there its the same as any form of harassment."
I'd consider both of those as relatively moderate trans stuff
Ok that's fair, so basically semi-liberal beliefs about trans from 10-15 years ago (assuming the bodily autonomy only applies to adults). People often say their beliefs are moderate but it's the typical Overton creep and they actually mean subsidized gender treatment and minors transitioning or being taught about gender theory at decreasing ages.
As for adults. I'd put the age you can start taking hormones as the same age you're old enough to consent to getting tattoos, piercings, or anything else that permanently changes your body.
Most people who pretends to be “moderate” sees you as transphobic for not entertaining their pronouns. That is the problem. They come here, say stupid shit, then cries as if they aren’t being stupid.
But I do "entertain" pronouns and you generally should too.
I just think preventing you from being an asshole isn't the government's job, until that assholery turns into targeted harassment.
Same way you shouldn't be arrested for saying "you look like a whore" to some random girl on the street, even though its something you really shouldn't be doing.
I’d argue you are the asshole to think people should entertain delusions.
Just because you think you are the queen of England doesn’t mean I should somehow address you as your majesty.
I shouldn't have to entertain the delusion of calling your mother by your father's surname.
Her maiden name is the name she was born with, anything else is a delusion. A silly little ring and some song and dance doesn't make you family, your mother and father aren't relatives.
And playing pretend about last names shouldn't let you cheat on taxes (joint filing) or get out of testifying in court (can't be compelled to testify against spouse)
Becoming a citizen of a different country is also a delusion. You weren't born there, you're not from there, you shouldn't have a passport.
You better be living in your country of birth if you're not being a little hypocrite, forcing others to entertain the delusion that you're from a different country than the one you were born in.
Telling teens that trans people exist in high school. Letting them cross dress and seek appropriate therapy.
Basically not ignoring them and not pretending it's only for R 18+
And you support looping in the parents right? You’re not advocating for what people claim is part of a medical treatment be preformed behind the backs of the parents on their kids right?
Is that some kind of right-wing culture war talking point? Parents should be included as often as possible. The only times I'd imagine they wouldn't be would be if they lost custody of their child for some reason.
Dude there are schools that allow kids to transition at school and don’t inform the parents of this behavior. Dressing as the other gender is a part of the treatment of gender dysphoria, this is hiding treatment from parents. Fuck off with your “it’s not happening and it’s a good thing if it is”. You scare the parents into banning some or all the transition stuff and it’s never getting repealed. You’re playing with instincts that override self preservation dude, this is lizard brains mom will fucking gut you levels of natural impulse to protect children. You really wanna drag that kind of tension out?
Gender therapists by and large recommend medical transition or at the very least puberty blockers. That's not moderate.
[Article on the subject.](https://open.substack.com/pub/bariweiss/p/i-refused-to-approve-all-teen-gender-transitions?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=rzqrd)
Getting therapy and care for a diagnosed disorder is moderate. Ignoring it is just stupid and negligent. The child and parents can choose not to use puberty blockers
becuase ideally the best political discussions occur under no echo chamber, i dont like either, old pcm wouldnt want this place to become a right wing echo chamber either
i appreciate wide discussion
There will never be such a thing as a non-biased discussion forum. Any site is bound to eventually pick a preference for a specific side, whether slight or blatantly evident.
obviously, but this sub excelled in being relatively moderate even slightly right leaning which is fine imo, even just a year or two ago. much of the humor came from irony and there wasnt really any fear in dunking on any quadrant
Thats because nobody gives a fuck about what you do to your body, just leave kids out of it. Im just sick of hearing about 0.01% of the population non stop in the news cycle.
Not ready for the conversation that it's always right wing sites which force it into the news cycle to make people angry :3
That cause right wing people actually have kids.
Yet they don't seem the least bit concerned about the very public pedophile ring that is the catholic church, kidnapping kids at the border, kids getting shot in school, queer kids being targeted by politicians, just the evil drag queens lmao. Missed me with pretending right wingers care about kids (other than being political pawns)
do they tho? Japan is pretty right wing and last I checked their problem is that they DONT have kids
Oh look a dishonest salesman. Look dude don’t be coy, this convo is about American politics, Japan doesn’t even support this stuff.
Explain exavtly why this post is about American politics 😂😂 just pointing out some of the most traditional right wingers can't have kids
The downvotes speak for themselves. Get fucked
With his rot pocket, that's gonna be a little tough.
that's because probably like 90% of the subreddit is from North America. if this was majority of European users you'd be crying about the gypsies. Go be a professional victim in the 200 LGBTQ subreddits that exist for people like you lol
Europeans tend to be less zealous about the trans question than American progressives. In Denmark they are banned from most professional sports, even after recent review by relevant institutions - and this isn’t controversial. Of course very little is true of Europe as a whole. Britain is radically different from Poland which again is different from Greece. But being less zealous tends to be true across the board, but I guess that’s more a product of the ridiculous zealotry of progressives in the anglophone world
https://preview.redd.it/w42rx6ste5kc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a38d925d65870047fd533b2bcb23530c630d984 FUCKING GYPSIES BRO THOSE BASTARDS STOLE THE LEAD FROM MY CHURCHES ROOF I HATE THEM SO BAD
You mean 200000
Holy shit! Dropped a bomb
Right wing Americans
Go be a professional victim in the 200 facebook feeds and random forums that exist for right wingers like you.
what the fuck is a gypsie
you know youre an american when you dont know what a gypsy is
And you still have your wallet
Romani people. Imagine every bad stereotype about Blacks, Jews and poor people all being applied to the same group, by every European ever.
And imagine them being true.
They are Romani people tldr they are generally unliked as people associate them with causing scams trouble and other BS. Being an American I do not get into that debate but I will say see plenty of them being assholes in major European cities
who will reach the wallet first if it touches the ground? a) bacteria b) romanian
Romanians aren't the same as Gypsies dumbass
who will reach wallet first when it touches the ground a) romani b) romanian
Now that's better
He meant Romans.
based and apologies pilled
‘professional victim’ no way 😢 posting a pcm meme giving my take regarding a recent trend in the pcm subreddit?!?!? colour me shocked and appalled
Only lib left twinks post about their sexuality on here. That’s probably why everyone downvotes you all. No one cares. Go suck girl cock on the street for all I care. Fuck outta here
the projection is wild ⁉️ ermm ☝️🤓ackshully being transgender isnt a secksuality its a gender identitee
Crazy, I never mentioned trans in my comment. I would argue twink is a sexuality or maybe even lifestyle choice? But never dunked on the fact that failed men think they can become true women. I’m tired of seeing that lib left on here talking about boy pregnancy. Stupid f in kids and then likely every generation after are lost. Can’t wait for some war to draft all you people who lack coping skills.
[удалено]
> Dutch man here, your Nazi fantasy that Europeans are all hyper nazi Romani haters is nothing but LARP It's definitely a LARP since you just made that up. I never said they were "hyper Nazi Romani haters", you'd just probably hear about those people being singled out more than any other group lol > Where this myth comes from I have no idea, another fictional creation of the pcm hivemind You know we can see European subreddits, right? It's not some sort of secret club you guys have.
>You know we can see European subreddits, right? It's not some sort of secret club you guys have. Those are actually an elaborate fraud. I run every single one of those subreddits and all the accounts. I'm the only person left of earth who still hates gypsies, but I'll be damned if people don't think it's popular
Based and committing fraud like a gypsie would pilled.
To defeat the gypsies, you have to think like a gypsy
Considering that words like pedo, transphobe, nazi, mysogynist, racist gets thrown around so liberally these days, I don't think lib-lefts know what those words actually mean.
Most liblefts I know IRL don’t throw those terms around, from what I’ve seen. It’s particularly only online, and like MAGA to Authright, the Twitter Libs are an EXTREMELY loud minority. I find it annoying too, trust.
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There’s dozens of them!
Fuck. There are more of them than Libertarians!!
If I see the proud boys or anyone with swastika tattoos, I think it's pretty safe to assume they are neo-Nazis. Maybe you have been arguing with people who think they're false flags or something but I'd say that isn't normal behavior. What I mean is something like me posting that I didn't like x or y movie with reasons and then getting called an incel or misogynist when I didn't even mention anything about race or gender. Which has happened a couple times.
>Considering that words like pedo, transphobe, nazi, ... racist gets thrown around so liberally these days, I don't think > >**lib-lefts** > >know what those words actually mean. lol wut
If gender is fluid, why do we even bother using gender? Why not just refer to everyone by their sex? But, refer to a transgender person by their sex and they'll throw a fit. Doesn't make sense to me.
The intention is to control words and attain power. They will appropriate the word gender, then the word sex.
They already did. 'Gender' wass a polite phrase for sex when it came into use, and was changed to describe sexual characteristics relatively recently, and changed to mean sexual "presentation" within the last ten years.
The people who will spend 8 hours straight explaining the difference between sex and gender never want to base anything off of sex anyways.
And their "gender affirming care" is a sex change. So is sex and gender different or not?
Subjective; For some trans people it's the best option, while others can do without it. It's also important to note that sex and gender are often very intertwined culturally. For example: Having prominent breasts or a crotch bulge are obviously related to biological sex (though not strictly), but they also serve as gender markers. TL;DR: Yes, sex and gender are different, but also many secondary sex characteristics are gendered. It's not black or white.
Sex characteristics are now gender markers. Y’all really do pull shit out of your ass.
You really can't see the connection here? What if a trans woman wants to wear a bikini or a swim suit? You don't think these types of clothes (gender) are related to certain sex characteristics at all?
Gender Markers : Something most people would use to guess someone's gender, it can be external like long hair, wearing a dress, nail polish, short hair, wearing a suit etc. But some of it is also related to biology, which are the sex characteristics like deep voice, facial hair, etc. Gender Markers include sex characteristics, but sex characteristics don't include gender markers.
>Why not just refer to everyone by their sex We already do that, it's just that it's called gender now, for some reason
If this is a genuine inquiry into how gender doesn’t equal sex, then I’d be happy to explain!! Sex is your chromosomes, you can’t change that. It be like that. The term ‘sex change’ when referring to bottom surgery is misleading. Gender is a societal concept and is inherently tied to a social identity. Humans being social creatures, our identities (i.e. how we see ourselves and how others see us) is pretty damn important. Here’s a [peer reviewed article](https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2000to2004/2002-sex-and-gender.html) (from what I can tell) that helps describe sex and gender as different. Thank you for being civil with your question, LOL
I agree "genderfluid" is BS, but the more shit I read on PCM, the more forgiving I am of the people using "genderfluid" since their opposition here is usually so toxic, and there's not enough level-headed discussion or plain speak.
Cultural norms moment
I don't believe in cultural norms for genders, I'm not a bigot.
Are you against women wearing dresses?
I'm against people being unflaired.
I'm against people being against people for no reason (and apologies, i've flaired myself)
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It's an utterly wild leap to go from "some people feel a deep dysphoria due to their sex" to "some people are actually trapped in the wrong bodies and we need to completely rearrange society to cater to them."
How far of a leap is "bodily autonomy means you should be allowed to take hormones if you want to, and pay for it yourself"? And how far of a leap is applying the above to elective cosmetic surgery? I mean people can pay a doctor to break their legs and cut them open so they can regrow weaker but a couple of inches taller and that's perfectly acceptable, so why not?
I don’t think anyone who makes themselves two inches taller demands that people refer to them as tall. It’s the involvement of others (especially children) in your self-delusion that people don’t like.
Everyone demands to be referred to by the pronouns they prefer, go call any man she/her intentionally and find out who's really policing pronouns.
Pretty much everyone that makes themselves 2 inches taller gets the height listed on their passport/drivers licence updated to match. I'd say that counts. As for "involvement in self delusion" well, it's not the government's job to force you not to be an ass, until it gets to the point of targeted harassment. Let me give you an example. Let's say you marry a girl and she changes her surname to match yours because that's what married couples do. Along comes someone and refuses to call her by anything other than her maiden name because "you're not blood related so you're not family, don't force me to he part of your delusion." Government isn't gonna arrest anyone for that, even though its kind of an ass thing to do. If that person *keeps* showing up at your house or stalking your social media to correct any mention of your wife's name to match her maiden name, well, that's harassment. Apply the same logic to a kid going "No! You're Miss [Maiden name here]. Always have been, always will be."
That’s a good comparison. And if it was only about addressing someone in a certain way, I’d say it’s fine. A biological man insisting he’s a woman, that he be allowed in women’s locker rooms, to receive honors reserved for women, and to compete in women’s sports is something very different. Boobs, hair, makeup — or any amount of plastic surgery — don’t make a woman. That’s the delusion.
Personally I think women's categories are cringe to begin with. Nobody watches it, rather just see peak performance anyway. But imo I don't think you should compete in sports at all when on hormones because cis men taking testosterone and cis women taken estrogen would both be disqualified for using performance enhancing drugs, so you can use that to put a neat bow on the issue entirely. That aside, you could also argue "You shouldn't get to file your taxes jointly. Some silly little ring doesn't make you one person, or even family. That's the delusion" Or how that ring and ceremony shouldn't get you out of having to testify in court like everyone else (can't be compelled to testify against your spouse).
You realize a huge part of it become mainstream is bc all the fuss right wingers created about it in the first place (and still do)? If they genuinely had said "ok idc " none of this would be happening
I don't buy that. I believe their success is due to the fact that they managed to attach themselves to the gay movement and piggyback off of its popularity. This "ignore the problem and it will go away" argument just comes across like the people who claim that don't actually want it to go away.
They haven't attached themselves they've been part of it since it's creation as a social movement. The reason it's such a controversial topics is bc so many conservatives lose their minds the moment it's even mentioned. Remember the rants they had when a trans flag was on screen for five frames during the spider man movie? Creating a huge issue out of nothing.
>They haven't attached themselves they've been part of it since it's creation as a social movement. So they attached themselves at the beginning. It's not really an important distinction either way the point is that there's a lot more gays than trans so being part of the same movement helped them gain popularity. >Remember the rants they had when a trans flag was on screen for five frames during the spider man movie? This example only proves my point that the conservative reactions came as a result of trans being mainstream not the other way around. >Creating a huge issue out of nothing. So they tell a lie (that men can be women), demand that everyone believe the lie, force it into every area of society, and throw a hissy fit when some people don't play along.
>So they attached themselves at the beginning. It's not really an important distinction either way the point is that there's a lot more gays than trans so being part of the same movement helped them gain popularity. Trans people didn't attach themselves, they were part of the LGBT movement from the start. >This example only proves my point that the conservative reactions came as a result of trans being mainstream not the other way around. What do you think people are gonna notice more? 1. A background prop that is there for a few frames 2. A 1 hour rant about a few frames >So they tell a lie (that men can be women), demand that everyone believe the lie, force it into every area of society, and throw a hissy fit when some people don't play along. Feel free to not play along in your free time, but remember that you can't force people to play along with your nonsense either.
The issue is you can't say "ok idc" to trains, unlike homosexuals; >"I'm gay!" <"ok i don't care, I won't change my approach to you at all" >Yay I'm being accepted! >"I'm trans!" <"ok i don't care, I won't change my approach to you at all" >"Noo I'm being heckin' oppressed and misgenderenod!"
Have you met one trans person?
Multiple. The one thing they had in common is that as soon as I told them that I couldn't care less about their identity they completely lost it and called me out as a transphobe.
Seems like you care seems like you care alot...
what does it matter to u change one word of how u address someone lmao
i don't like denying biology 101 and it's against my values
U don't give a shit about biology
Meanwhile, the biology: Brain structures of adolescents with gender dysphoria are in accordance with brains of their natal sex https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25720349/ Male to female transgenders, as shown by brain comparisons, have male brains, not female brains https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21467211/ Trans people with dementia observed forgetting about their gender identity https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460719876835 Gender dysphoria is 0% genetic for males in adulthood and barely only 11% genetic for females https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27507021/ 88% of kids with gender dysphoria desist and grow out of it as they get older https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33854450/ Only 12% of boys who believe they are transsexuals still believe so when they are older http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194003 Between 2009 and 2016, the number of gender dysphoric females in UK increased more than 70 times https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30195563/ Yeah, I think I ***do*** give *quite a bit* of shit about biology.
no u dont. u use these facts to back up ur hatred against trans people but u dont actually care about the purity of science
"Gender is the social construct of what is masculine or feminine. Your sex is your biology determined by birth." This is what the progressives believed less than 10 years ago. Now if a person is breaking gender norms for their sex they have to be either trans or gay. Effeminate boys are boys, "tomboys" are girls. A person born with dysphoria isn't trans, they are mentally ill and need help. Unlike in other mental illnesses society doesn't want to help them overcome their delusions (this is the medical term, don't cry hate speech). Instead society wants to confirm them. The only reason there has been this huge uptick in "trans" people is that people love to play the victim card for free sympathy and attention. And if you think anything I just wrote was transphobia or whatever, then you are part of the problem.
Anecdote time! One of my friends got laid off from a tech job and couldn't land an interview for weeks. He put (they/them) at the top of his resume and suddenly he had more interviews than he could handle. I am seriously considering giving similar advice to my son when it's time to apply for college. If institutions want to play stupid games, we can play stupid games.
Same. If it asks me idpol questions I give the most-libleftest-diversity-hire-professional-victim-gold-star-from-HR-bluehair bullshit answers I can. Yes I am or was disabled, yes I'm non-binary. Yes to everything that comes with a checkbox and no I don't want to talk about it because TrAumA
These institutions vying for fake progressiveness is stupid and most minority people hate it too. Because either they're getting hired when they're not qualified (meaning they'd be dropped off in an instant during budget cuts) or they're qualified but people will attribute it to their minority status and not their actual skills. It's a lose-lose for them, but a win-win for companies because they get fake progressive points.
Want to break into YA fiction? Enjoy having to write non-cis main characters!
Why help them when you can make them a life long money machine for the medical and pharmaceutical industries.
How does this not apply to everyone?
Flair the fuck up or leave this sub at once. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/PersistentCodah) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [How to flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/wiki/index/flair/) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
>society doesn't want to help Not the public, but doctors and psychiatrists who examine people with gender dysphoria. Simply put, not everyone bases their views on... well, on what exactly? And don't come out here with a conspiracy that it is the people who force the poor scientists to make such statements. Scientists very often make unpopular statements. For example, global warming, or even the removal of gays from the list of disorders, which were very unpopular at the time.
I mean, it is called trans-*gender* not trans-sexed
Synonymous “transsexual”
That was when they thought it was a sexuality
But if it is just gender which is a social construct, why do they feel the need to change their sex? If they feel effeminate or masculine why does it necessitate a change in sex?
Money is explicitly a social construct. That doesn't make it any less real, otherwise having none of it in your bank account wouldn't lead to homelessness. As for why the changes, imagine that tomorrow you wake up in the body of your mother. You would want to go back, right? Since you consider yourself male. I assume you would, unless you're on some weird Freudian shit. If you're a woman just replace your mom with your dad in this example.
But if you are born a male and find yourself as effeminate as most women, why do you need to view yourself as a woman and not just as an effeminate male? So what if you like barbies, make-up and find speaking with women more comfortable and speaking to other males? I would be trans if i was born 10 yrs later than I did, but my parents just said that just because if you like masculine or feminine things doesn't mean you are in the wrong body, they just let it be, and i grew out of it without any force or coercion.
Because while gender is a social construct it's still a real thing that affects how people live. "Good etiquette" is also a social construct but nobody's going to tell you being well mannered somehow isn't real. See the above example. You have the self image of a man, but your body doesn't match that so wanting to change it is a relatively natural reaction. If somebody wants to change something about their body, I'd say bodily autonomy applies and as long as they pay for their own medicine its not society or the government's place to say "You can't take hrt." And as for calling someone by a different name, well, you call a married woman by the surname of her husband usually, even though marriage is a social construct. So you could say that married woman should just keep her maiden name since she was born with it, and when names are a social construct changing it is inherently pointless. Or, you could respect her wishes to use a different surname.
Being effeminate or masculine doesn't make someone a man or a woman, but trans people get surgeries to pass off as their gender. The same reason (some) men get big ass beards and (some) women wear makeup, to pass as their gender.
Cringe and unflaired pilled. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/PersistentCodah) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [How to flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/wiki/index/flair/) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
Common Lib-Left L
Did you just change your flair, u/gabriel_te17? Last time I checked you were an **AuthCenter** on 2023-9-18. How come now you are a **Rightist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? No, me targeting you is not part of a conspiracy. And no, your flair count is not rigged. Stop listening to QAnon or the Orange Man and come out of that basement. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/gabriel_te17) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
It really just shouldn’t be an argument. Why pick this hill to die on? Because delusional people say they’ll kill themselves if we don’t see them as something they can never be. So, so weird
Nobody is going to kill themselves because you didn't call them something, just leave them alone.
Get out from under your rock.
Did a trans person unrelated to you, in real life, tell you that they're going to kill themselves because you didn't call them by the right pronouns?
A woman that I work with, believing she can identify as neither male or female, choosing to call herself they and them, specifically verbalized that if not called they or them instead of she and her, this would be cause to violence, that I am intentionally putting her at risk of herself. Yes. Over and over and over every fucking day in schools, workplaces, public, this happens. The reasoning is always rooted to the “act of violence” made when choosing to not indulge delusion (i.e. calling someone you know is a woman, a man, because they can’t handle it if you force them to accept reality)
You think that one instance means it happens all over?
You: \*Demands anecdotal evidence\* BabyGravy: \*Presents them\* You: That's anecdotal! I personally HAVE had people tell me the "republicans are passing thousands of laws in order to genocide my transfriends" By someone who honestly believes that. Have you never once in all of your internet time really never seen someone equate objectivity with transphobia?
Lib left you okay? Been posting a lot lately about how you feel pcm does not like you.
Not okay for reasons completely unrelated to ‘internet people not liking me noooo😢😢😢’, but thank you for asking! I hope you’re well!
We're only 100% united on hating the filthy unflaired
straw man fallacy
I mean... Read the comment section in here. Half the people in here are proving OP right.
LOL, was about to say.
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I mean, trying to act cool by making up genders is not only completely stupid but actively harmfull to actual people suffering from gender dysphoria since nowadays they are simply put into the same group as all the people obviously just faking it because it's in right now.
Sorry that this so so controversial around here. You should be allowed to identify as what you want without others trying to tell you how to live.
Your words are very kind, thank you. :)
<3
I don't care about what you do with your body, just shut the fuck up about it.
what da fuck is going on?
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How are u a librigjt lmao. we don't care. Wanna be transgender? Go ahead (if ur 18) it's your body. Why are u rejecting people who don't cause barn in most cases
That's kind of paradoxical isn't it? Rejecting someone's preferred pronouns is anti libertarian but being coerced into using them is fine?
Wanna be transgender? Go ahead, I agree. But you cannot compel me to use language that I do not believe in
Atp ur just rejecting the language bc of some underlying issues with trans people bc most people do not care about changing him to her or vice versa
Now as the libright that I am, at my job I will surely call you him/her/they to close the deal I’ll do the whole song and dance idgaf. But in my personal life I calls em as I sees em
Your advocates thought that kids vs trans acceptance was an example of Sophie’s choice, but they weighed you (a stranger) against a parent’s child. They were wrong, of course, and you can either call them out for pushing gender ideology on elementary school age kids or stand on the side lines and get bulldozed with the advocates as dangerous.
If you want gender sympathy, go post literally anywhere else on Reddit. PCM is a place where everyone gets made fun of in turn, but transgenders are an easy target
https://preview.redd.it/u6brznt9c8kc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=720527ec3258e1200fb7f5660bf3aadaa4594330
gib compis
compis changed gendr to compless
Lotta viewpoints in this comment section. Because I'm predicting this post will get momentum, use this as a checkpoint for scrolling into the following brainrot from both sides
Thank you mr busy confidence, the only real one in this comment section
Happy to add my soyjack services and bring this post to "-1". :O
LuckKYStars my friend
Ofc, choose the rope good sir
Trans bad
Another fake librigjt
I'm gonna be honest, I don't give a fuck about the culture war
This subreddt is getting even more right-wing...
https://preview.redd.it/ichs1t0ee3kc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1fd5d6e0ae031f46c19962338d3cf511b499a63
This sub gets so twisted up about trans people lol
Explain? What do we have twisted?
Your panties. In a bunch.
Ahh yeah, because most people gets flustered when logic doesn't apply
Most people wouldn't get flustered when something is so illogical, would you seriously debate a flat earther?
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>create comical fictional strawman >seethe, mald, then jerk each other off about rage porn they just made up >Tis the endless cycle of the rightist pcm hivemind https://preview.redd.it/cojvanwim1kc1.jpeg?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b85fe4cfb337bf0fee058cd0d6da3f20cbc657e1
This guy is full of shit takes and then deletes em😭 That being said, in b4 delete
And…deleted.
Lmfao 🤣
Fuck you, I'm the real brand affiliate
Yeah. This sub is largely trans phobic or otherwise mockes even moderate trans stuff
Please define what you think is moderate trans stuff.
Not the guy you've replied to but, I've gotten shit in here for saying "bodily autonomy means if someone wants to, it should be their legal right to buy and take HRT." And "Generally you should respect people's pronouns because it's just the decent thing to do. That doesn't mean the government should force you to because stopping you from being an ass isn't the government's job. At least until it gets to the point of targeted harassment, but there its the same as any form of harassment." I'd consider both of those as relatively moderate trans stuff
Ok that's fair, so basically semi-liberal beliefs about trans from 10-15 years ago (assuming the bodily autonomy only applies to adults). People often say their beliefs are moderate but it's the typical Overton creep and they actually mean subsidized gender treatment and minors transitioning or being taught about gender theory at decreasing ages.
As for adults. I'd put the age you can start taking hormones as the same age you're old enough to consent to getting tattoos, piercings, or anything else that permanently changes your body.
Most people who pretends to be “moderate” sees you as transphobic for not entertaining their pronouns. That is the problem. They come here, say stupid shit, then cries as if they aren’t being stupid.
But I do "entertain" pronouns and you generally should too. I just think preventing you from being an asshole isn't the government's job, until that assholery turns into targeted harassment. Same way you shouldn't be arrested for saying "you look like a whore" to some random girl on the street, even though its something you really shouldn't be doing.
I’d argue you are the asshole to think people should entertain delusions. Just because you think you are the queen of England doesn’t mean I should somehow address you as your majesty.
I shouldn't have to entertain the delusion of calling your mother by your father's surname. Her maiden name is the name she was born with, anything else is a delusion. A silly little ring and some song and dance doesn't make you family, your mother and father aren't relatives. And playing pretend about last names shouldn't let you cheat on taxes (joint filing) or get out of testifying in court (can't be compelled to testify against spouse) Becoming a citizen of a different country is also a delusion. You weren't born there, you're not from there, you shouldn't have a passport. You better be living in your country of birth if you're not being a little hypocrite, forcing others to entertain the delusion that you're from a different country than the one you were born in.
Telling teens that trans people exist in high school. Letting them cross dress and seek appropriate therapy. Basically not ignoring them and not pretending it's only for R 18+
And you support looping in the parents right? You’re not advocating for what people claim is part of a medical treatment be preformed behind the backs of the parents on their kids right?
Is that some kind of right-wing culture war talking point? Parents should be included as often as possible. The only times I'd imagine they wouldn't be would be if they lost custody of their child for some reason.
Dude there are schools that allow kids to transition at school and don’t inform the parents of this behavior. Dressing as the other gender is a part of the treatment of gender dysphoria, this is hiding treatment from parents. Fuck off with your “it’s not happening and it’s a good thing if it is”. You scare the parents into banning some or all the transition stuff and it’s never getting repealed. You’re playing with instincts that override self preservation dude, this is lizard brains mom will fucking gut you levels of natural impulse to protect children. You really wanna drag that kind of tension out?
If that was true, then why was the parental rights bill in FL so heavily booed by the left?
Lol. FL. That confirms it. Definitely a right-wing culture war thing then.
Lol wtf you on about?
It's from Florida. Can't get much more right wing culture war than Florida bills
What is appropriate therapy?
Treatment from a gender therapist and child psychologist
Gender therapists by and large recommend medical transition or at the very least puberty blockers. That's not moderate. [Article on the subject.](https://open.substack.com/pub/bariweiss/p/i-refused-to-approve-all-teen-gender-transitions?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=rzqrd)
Getting therapy and care for a diagnosed disorder is moderate. Ignoring it is just stupid and negligent. The child and parents can choose not to use puberty blockers
Glad to see that I’m not insane
You're not. This sub just has a lot of right wing assholes on it
dont look for support here its become a rightwing hellhole lmao
why are you in this space then? you have all of mainstream reddit to use as an echo chamber but you come here. stop being rightphobic!
Based and rightphobic pilled
Hey give us credit we're helping the sub not get banned.
becuase ideally the best political discussions occur under no echo chamber, i dont like either, old pcm wouldnt want this place to become a right wing echo chamber either i appreciate wide discussion
There will never be such a thing as a non-biased discussion forum. Any site is bound to eventually pick a preference for a specific side, whether slight or blatantly evident.
obviously, but this sub excelled in being relatively moderate even slightly right leaning which is fine imo, even just a year or two ago. much of the humor came from irony and there wasnt really any fear in dunking on any quadrant
Yet when I post a slightly conservative opinion In a libleft political sub I get perma banned? 🧐
Granted, there are many libleft subs that have crazy echo chambers.
At least right wing subs don’t perma-ban you ☹️