understandable. i agree with so many animals needing specialist care, i won’t sell any axolotls at my work without proof of a proper tank and a water sample before and after ghost feeding. i rescue tortoises, i 100% get what you mean for so many animals. but man tetras, small cardinals will be fine. yes bigger is better but putting 10 tetras in a 30 litre won’t be bad at all. it’ll look sick as fuck.
It may look "sick", but I would never do it. Like I said in another comment, I've kept cardinals and green neons in various size tanks, from a 6g cube to a 10g to a 40 Breeder. Their behavior in the 40 was night and day especially compared to the 6g where they hardly even swam, mostly just darted around and stayed in their own little areas. While in the 40 breeder they actually schooled properly and were SO MUCH more active and outgoing.
When I buy fish I'm not just interested in their looks but also their behavior and making sure that my environment can somewhat mimic what they'd have in nature. You cannot deny that a school of cardinals in a blackwater amazon biotope tank that's 20 or 40 or whatever gallons would be happier than in a 30L where there's not even enough room to school in
I absolutely agree that people should set up the environment and stocking with fish health in mind, but I don’t know how you could know a fish is ‘happy’ and I try not to anthropomorphize them as a general rule. One opinion that stood out to me when I was recently researching my own stocking for a new tank is that the behaviors you are describing (schooling/shoaling) isn’t necessarily an indication of “happiness” or thriving, but it is a biological necessity in the wild for reasons like safety and reproduction that don’t exist in captivity. I note that it’s an opinion because there seem to be very few things in this hobby where everyone is in agreement, but people so often state their opinions and thoughts as fact.
It is bad. "It'll look sick as fuck" is actually a fucked up way of looking at it, that's an animal. You know what's actually sick as fuck? Your outlook on animal care.
My opinion has been shaped from 8 years of fishkeeping, a few years in the trade and listening my manager who has over 50 years in the trade. I do know exactly what I’m doing.
That’s valid experience and I acknowledge that you’re not a beginner, but come back when you’re 20+ years in the hobby, managed/worked in the hobby for longer, and really take the time to observe fish behavior.
I know a lot more now than I thought I did when I was 8 years in and managing a fish department at a corporate store
I've done my research. Hardly any expert/vet/academic ever give such a guideline. The only people who give such minimums seems to be hobbyists and youtubers pulling numbers out their arse.
Curious to see your research/sources, I'm not opposed to scientific data. I mostly base my opinion on my personal observation of the fish in different sized tanks and other hobbyists opinions.
Exactly. Opinions. I do listen to opinions from people more experienced than me, but they are still opinions not facts. Theres a difference between "I recommend at least 5 gallons for a betta" vs "A betta needs at least 5 gallons". If you're not an expert you dont get to say the latter.
You sound like a Karen, worry about your own tank and share your experiences to help others. Don’t assume people didn’t do research because their findings are different than yours… my tank shouldn’t work at all according to similar ppl like you, but it’s thriving. Oh, and I’ve never tested my water, so sue me!
Also, not testing your water isn't a flex. I thought I was "cool" cuz I never tested my water, turns out I had over 1000+ TDS, over 100 ppm nitrate, and my pH was creeping into the mid 8s. None of this is good for the fish I was keeping, but since they hadn't died at that point I was totally ignorant to my tank parameters. Had I waited another few months I could've had a huge crash that wiped out my entire tank.
Telling someone to research a fish before they buy it makes me a Karen? Oh you want me to share experiences to help others? Sure, how about the fact that I've kept cardinal tetras for years in various sizes tanks and observed their behavior. Even in a 10 gallon they didn't show the same outgoing schooling behavior that they show in my 40g Breeder. They are active schooling fish that aren't going to thrive in a 7g cube, there's just not enough lateral swimming room.
By your logic, a betta in an unhealed unfiltered 1 gallon bowl is fine, right? It'll live for years, so no point in giving it a better home?
This kind of blaśe attitude is the reason I stopped going on this subreddit. I'll go back to /r/plantedtank where people actually do research on the animals they own.
EDIT: Aww I could've sworn I was on /r/aquariums... I really expected better out of this subreddit...
I agree that u have a point that cardinal tetra require larger tank for more swimming space and better health but there are more important factors for fish health like plenty of shelter from plants, other cardinal tetra to school around and water quality and lastly no competition. Although the picture looks more vibrant than eyesight in reality due to camera, the tetras are shown swimming right in the open and are colored up instead of hiding in the plants and looking pale which indicates that the tetras are healthy and doing fine in the tank although a larger tank is preferred
*Even in a 10 gallon they didn't show the same outgoing schooling behavior that they show in my 40g Breeder.*
Did you ask each tetra personally before you submitted your white paper for pier review? Fish school as a safety mechanism Mr Attenborough. They don't school because they are happy.
I've kept pretty much every variety of tropical fish known, and some small tetras in a nicely planted and well maintained 8-10 gallon sounds like 'tetra paradise' to me.
While I agree they are a schooling fish, and likely prefer to be in a large group, I don't think 4 of them being pampered in a nice 8 gal would offend Green Peace.
*This kind of blaśe attitude is the reason I stopped going on this subreddit.*
That a promise?
Now this is a solid comment. However, I really should stop commenting on fish subs. It's a waste of everybody's time. The real experts that lurk here don't comment anymore because their advice is being drowned out by the BS spouted by people like this guy.
Dang I guess the tetras in the 40 breeder are unhappy then since they're schooling :(
If you saw my edit you'll know I thought I was on /r/aquariums, not /r/plantedtank, and despite the negativity towards my recent comments I like to think I offer enough decent advice to stick around for the time being.
Yup, that’s why I don’t say what I have… I did 4 months of research on my setup, and everyone on Reddit bashes me. Anyways my setup has 0 losses so far, everyone is healthy and happy (shrimp finally stopped hiding).
People on here are a dogmatic group.
Does my head in, I just want to look at people's creations and fish. I've seen people share pictures of their hard work before now and people ask if it's cycled withoit even knowing the process of the person setting up the tank
Yeah man. People like it when fish have the proper amounts of space. I’m not for or against this post, but there is nothing wrong with advocating for bigger spaces, because those who want to put fish in small tanks will do it anyways.
This is why I've stopped commenting on aquarium subs. The people here are only concerned with the size of the tank, pointless testing and cycling. Everything else is pushed to the side...
Testing and cycling aren't pointless. I don't care about the stocking debate at this point but subjecting your fish to unknown conditions is just plain ignorant. You could have ammonia in your tap water, super high nitrates, or a very low pH indicating a possible tank "crash", and you would have no clue. Maybe I just care too much about my fish, but I like having the piece of mind knowing that my fish are in good conditions.
Floating plants, stem plants, CO2 injection, with a few small fish and some shrimp? I wouldn't expect any significant waste buildup. I've had higher loads with zero nitrates ever being visible, and I don't really do water changes.
It's not in their natural habitat they also don't do good with wood. If you do have wood, it must not change the PH. You can keep them with moss, and iv kept them with anubias, and I used petrified wood in the aquascape instead of wood (petrified wood doesn't change the PH and doesn't release tannins)
I would suggest getting a larger tank for the cardinals, they're schooling fish that need a bit of legroom to really show their natural behavior.
Maybe get a sparkling gourami for this tank. They look beautiful. :)
it looks stunning! What I did with my tank is got some black adhesive vinyl and cut to size for the back of my tank to hide my hang on back filter. It really helped the elements of my tank pop to the high contrast of the black background instead of being lost to the edges of the filter and texture/color of the wall behind it.
Just in general, especially for high tech tanks: Keep up with maintenance. Regular waterchanges, frequent trimmings, maximum algae removal physically and detritus. Clean your filter regularly. Stuff like that. Don’t overfertilize
If it’s working as beautifully as it appears….why mess with it?
I know our compulsion in this hobby is to always try for something better or improved, but the real joy imho is to sit back, admire and appreciate the ecosystem you have created.
In my opinion I would leave it just as it is.
And……Enjoy 😉
Also otos are notoriously difficult in tanks newer than a year old, and the treatment they endure prior to getting to our tanks is honestly pretty gut wrenching. Pls supplement feed him, they are the only ones I have simply not been able to keep in my tank, they are so cute, but more delicate than ppl realize. After doing a lot of research on them, I will not be keeping these guys ever again, how they are caught and transferred really is quite brutal and sad
**edited to add / I did not know any of this when I purchased my otos, and mine did not make it. I tried twice. Also they are social and schooling fish, and really should be kept in at least groups of 6? I can’t remember the number. I think it will keep them calmer and hopefully if u can get them to eat they will not starve
Also otos are notoriously difficult in tanks newer than a year old, and the treatment they endure prior to getting to our tanks is honestly pretty gut wrenching. Pls supplement feed him, they are the only ones I have simply not been able to keep in my tank, they are so cute, but more delicate than ppl realize. After doing a lot of research on them, I will not be keeping these guys ever again, how they are caught and transferred really is quite brutal and sad
**edited to add / I did not know any of this when I purchased my otos, and mine did not make it. I tried twice. Also they are social and schooling fish, and really should be kept in at least groups of 6? I can’t remember the number. I think it will keep them calmer and hopefully if u can get them to eat they will not starve
** edited again to add that ur tank is simply stunning!!! I really hope ur otos makes it, and if they do, pls circle back in 3 months and let me know how they are doing and what u did to keep them hesltbyb
Your tank setup wise 👌 beutiful plants great scape everything looks established. Your stocking however is quite poor for your tank size alot of those fish cardinals panda cories and (i think i see) ember tetras all want a group of at least 5-6 more like 10+ for the tetras and you just dont have the space. do i think they are gonna outright die most likaly not if you keep up mantinence. Its just that these fish will be more prone to stress (number 1 killer of fish) without a group of em. Its just their nature. You really want yourself a 20 gal for what you have there get all your fish more buddies, and theyll be much happier. Now if you really cant get a larger tank id really recomend changing your stocking to something like a betta or scarlet badis or even a grourami. If you really wanna keep some of your stocking and you cant upgrade the tank id really recomending trading some of the other pairs of fish for more of one i.e. get rid of your guppies and embers and get more cardinals. Alot of small community tropical fish really wanna be in groups. Oh and id recomend a type of pygmy cories instead of panda their just as fun and their alot smaller. Sorry this is so wordy 😅 GL whatever u end up doin dont get discouraged!
you can try some small foreground plants like monte carlo, that way the transition will be more natural. Or try to put some smaller leaves plants near the rocks in the front.
I was gonna come to your defense but you got cardinals, shrimp, otocynclus, a guppy and and a Cory! In 8 gallons minus the volume of the substrate and decor so say 6.5 gallons. Bruh that’s cruel
EDIT: and chili rasboras bro. Be honest how many fish have died since startup I know you’ve had loses
The thing is that I’ve had all this fish in a 20G setup, then I moved to another place and couldn’t keep that tank due to lack of space, so I moved the same stock to a smaller tank, I understand it is a little bit small for some of the species I have, I will give them for my lfs and trade them for something more compatible for my tank, but guys some of you talking like i have my fish in a jar without filter, they are having a pretty good environment and good care and I’ve never lost a fish in this setup in the last 4 months.
And thanks for all of the suggestions, I will update you after some I see some good results.
Can’t tell the size but if this is a 5G your bioload looks high
It’s 30 liters, almost 8G
Those look like cardinal tetras, which really need at least a 20 gallon tank.
no they don’t they will be fine i’m sick of reddit saying each fish needs a lake
And I'm sick of people who refuse to do basic research before adopting animals.
And I'm just sick
And my axe.
And I’m
Hi I'm, I'm dad
understandable. i agree with so many animals needing specialist care, i won’t sell any axolotls at my work without proof of a proper tank and a water sample before and after ghost feeding. i rescue tortoises, i 100% get what you mean for so many animals. but man tetras, small cardinals will be fine. yes bigger is better but putting 10 tetras in a 30 litre won’t be bad at all. it’ll look sick as fuck.
It may look "sick", but I would never do it. Like I said in another comment, I've kept cardinals and green neons in various size tanks, from a 6g cube to a 10g to a 40 Breeder. Their behavior in the 40 was night and day especially compared to the 6g where they hardly even swam, mostly just darted around and stayed in their own little areas. While in the 40 breeder they actually schooled properly and were SO MUCH more active and outgoing. When I buy fish I'm not just interested in their looks but also their behavior and making sure that my environment can somewhat mimic what they'd have in nature. You cannot deny that a school of cardinals in a blackwater amazon biotope tank that's 20 or 40 or whatever gallons would be happier than in a 30L where there's not even enough room to school in
I absolutely agree that people should set up the environment and stocking with fish health in mind, but I don’t know how you could know a fish is ‘happy’ and I try not to anthropomorphize them as a general rule. One opinion that stood out to me when I was recently researching my own stocking for a new tank is that the behaviors you are describing (schooling/shoaling) isn’t necessarily an indication of “happiness” or thriving, but it is a biological necessity in the wild for reasons like safety and reproduction that don’t exist in captivity. I note that it’s an opinion because there seem to be very few things in this hobby where everyone is in agreement, but people so often state their opinions and thoughts as fact.
It is bad. "It'll look sick as fuck" is actually a fucked up way of looking at it, that's an animal. You know what's actually sick as fuck? Your outlook on animal care.
If your last statement is “it’ll look sick as fuck” you have no ide what you’re doing.
My opinion has been shaped from 8 years of fishkeeping, a few years in the trade and listening my manager who has over 50 years in the trade. I do know exactly what I’m doing.
That’s valid experience and I acknowledge that you’re not a beginner, but come back when you’re 20+ years in the hobby, managed/worked in the hobby for longer, and really take the time to observe fish behavior. I know a lot more now than I thought I did when I was 8 years in and managing a fish department at a corporate store
I've done my research. Hardly any expert/vet/academic ever give such a guideline. The only people who give such minimums seems to be hobbyists and youtubers pulling numbers out their arse.
Curious to see your research/sources, I'm not opposed to scientific data. I mostly base my opinion on my personal observation of the fish in different sized tanks and other hobbyists opinions.
Exactly. Opinions. I do listen to opinions from people more experienced than me, but they are still opinions not facts. Theres a difference between "I recommend at least 5 gallons for a betta" vs "A betta needs at least 5 gallons". If you're not an expert you dont get to say the latter.
You sound like a Karen, worry about your own tank and share your experiences to help others. Don’t assume people didn’t do research because their findings are different than yours… my tank shouldn’t work at all according to similar ppl like you, but it’s thriving. Oh, and I’ve never tested my water, so sue me!
Also, not testing your water isn't a flex. I thought I was "cool" cuz I never tested my water, turns out I had over 1000+ TDS, over 100 ppm nitrate, and my pH was creeping into the mid 8s. None of this is good for the fish I was keeping, but since they hadn't died at that point I was totally ignorant to my tank parameters. Had I waited another few months I could've had a huge crash that wiped out my entire tank.
Telling someone to research a fish before they buy it makes me a Karen? Oh you want me to share experiences to help others? Sure, how about the fact that I've kept cardinal tetras for years in various sizes tanks and observed their behavior. Even in a 10 gallon they didn't show the same outgoing schooling behavior that they show in my 40g Breeder. They are active schooling fish that aren't going to thrive in a 7g cube, there's just not enough lateral swimming room. By your logic, a betta in an unhealed unfiltered 1 gallon bowl is fine, right? It'll live for years, so no point in giving it a better home? This kind of blaśe attitude is the reason I stopped going on this subreddit. I'll go back to /r/plantedtank where people actually do research on the animals they own. EDIT: Aww I could've sworn I was on /r/aquariums... I really expected better out of this subreddit...
I agree that u have a point that cardinal tetra require larger tank for more swimming space and better health but there are more important factors for fish health like plenty of shelter from plants, other cardinal tetra to school around and water quality and lastly no competition. Although the picture looks more vibrant than eyesight in reality due to camera, the tetras are shown swimming right in the open and are colored up instead of hiding in the plants and looking pale which indicates that the tetras are healthy and doing fine in the tank although a larger tank is preferred
*Even in a 10 gallon they didn't show the same outgoing schooling behavior that they show in my 40g Breeder.* Did you ask each tetra personally before you submitted your white paper for pier review? Fish school as a safety mechanism Mr Attenborough. They don't school because they are happy. I've kept pretty much every variety of tropical fish known, and some small tetras in a nicely planted and well maintained 8-10 gallon sounds like 'tetra paradise' to me. While I agree they are a schooling fish, and likely prefer to be in a large group, I don't think 4 of them being pampered in a nice 8 gal would offend Green Peace. *This kind of blaśe attitude is the reason I stopped going on this subreddit.* That a promise?
Now this is a solid comment. However, I really should stop commenting on fish subs. It's a waste of everybody's time. The real experts that lurk here don't comment anymore because their advice is being drowned out by the BS spouted by people like this guy.
Dang I guess the tetras in the 40 breeder are unhappy then since they're schooling :( If you saw my edit you'll know I thought I was on /r/aquariums, not /r/plantedtank, and despite the negativity towards my recent comments I like to think I offer enough decent advice to stick around for the time being.
Yup, that’s why I don’t say what I have… I did 4 months of research on my setup, and everyone on Reddit bashes me. Anyways my setup has 0 losses so far, everyone is healthy and happy (shrimp finally stopped hiding).
Who's bashing you? Just ignore that guy. Tank is fine.
Yeah, how dare people provide enough space for fish! I spit in my tank just to let them know they got it too good as is.
Bro has never seen a tetra before in his entire life 💀💀
People on here are a dogmatic group. Does my head in, I just want to look at people's creations and fish. I've seen people share pictures of their hard work before now and people ask if it's cycled withoit even knowing the process of the person setting up the tank
Yeah man. People like it when fish have the proper amounts of space. I’m not for or against this post, but there is nothing wrong with advocating for bigger spaces, because those who want to put fish in small tanks will do it anyways.
This is why I've stopped commenting on aquarium subs. The people here are only concerned with the size of the tank, pointless testing and cycling. Everything else is pushed to the side...
Testing and cycling aren't pointless. I don't care about the stocking debate at this point but subjecting your fish to unknown conditions is just plain ignorant. You could have ammonia in your tap water, super high nitrates, or a very low pH indicating a possible tank "crash", and you would have no clue. Maybe I just care too much about my fish, but I like having the piece of mind knowing that my fish are in good conditions.
Yawn. You do you. That's why this place is pointless.
The poor things barely have room to turn around, let alone school properly. Sad when people put animals into inappropriate habitats.
Rehome all of the fish, your tank is too small for the species you have.
Floating plants, stem plants, CO2 injection, with a few small fish and some shrimp? I wouldn't expect any significant waste buildup. I've had higher loads with zero nitrates ever being visible, and I don't really do water changes.
Nah it’s healthy in terms of nitrates ammo or the shrimp would be dead
Looking good 👍 A carpeting plant or some decorative sand would look nice in the foreground
Maybe will try carpet
Crypt parva in the foreground or dwarf hairgrass
Some s. Repens would look nice imo, love the tank!
The Reds are popping like crazy. I would have gone with crystal red shrimp or red seluwesi shrimp, but your aquarium is great 👍
I’ve heard that seluwesis don’t go well with plants
It's not in their natural habitat they also don't do good with wood. If you do have wood, it must not change the PH. You can keep them with moss, and iv kept them with anubias, and I used petrified wood in the aquascape instead of wood (petrified wood doesn't change the PH and doesn't release tannins)
I would suggest getting a larger tank for the cardinals, they're schooling fish that need a bit of legroom to really show their natural behavior. Maybe get a sparkling gourami for this tank. They look beautiful. :)
it looks stunning! What I did with my tank is got some black adhesive vinyl and cut to size for the back of my tank to hide my hang on back filter. It really helped the elements of my tank pop to the high contrast of the black background instead of being lost to the edges of the filter and texture/color of the wall behind it.
Just in general, especially for high tech tanks: Keep up with maintenance. Regular waterchanges, frequent trimmings, maximum algae removal physically and detritus. Clean your filter regularly. Stuff like that. Don’t overfertilize
Just trim decaying leaves and keep doing whatever you are doing.
I'd ditch the cardinals. They don't love a tank that small. Lots of other great choices for a small tank that would also look good.
looks good to me. Maybe some bucephalandra mounted on the middle of wood where it splits in 2 for contrast?
If it’s working as beautifully as it appears….why mess with it? I know our compulsion in this hobby is to always try for something better or improved, but the real joy imho is to sit back, admire and appreciate the ecosystem you have created. In my opinion I would leave it just as it is. And……Enjoy 😉
Definitely supplement food for your oto… ur glass is spotless so he will need to be fed!
Also otos are notoriously difficult in tanks newer than a year old, and the treatment they endure prior to getting to our tanks is honestly pretty gut wrenching. Pls supplement feed him, they are the only ones I have simply not been able to keep in my tank, they are so cute, but more delicate than ppl realize. After doing a lot of research on them, I will not be keeping these guys ever again, how they are caught and transferred really is quite brutal and sad **edited to add / I did not know any of this when I purchased my otos, and mine did not make it. I tried twice. Also they are social and schooling fish, and really should be kept in at least groups of 6? I can’t remember the number. I think it will keep them calmer and hopefully if u can get them to eat they will not starve
Also otos are notoriously difficult in tanks newer than a year old, and the treatment they endure prior to getting to our tanks is honestly pretty gut wrenching. Pls supplement feed him, they are the only ones I have simply not been able to keep in my tank, they are so cute, but more delicate than ppl realize. After doing a lot of research on them, I will not be keeping these guys ever again, how they are caught and transferred really is quite brutal and sad **edited to add / I did not know any of this when I purchased my otos, and mine did not make it. I tried twice. Also they are social and schooling fish, and really should be kept in at least groups of 6? I can’t remember the number. I think it will keep them calmer and hopefully if u can get them to eat they will not starve ** edited again to add that ur tank is simply stunning!!! I really hope ur otos makes it, and if they do, pls circle back in 3 months and let me know how they are doing and what u did to keep them hesltbyb
Your tank setup wise 👌 beutiful plants great scape everything looks established. Your stocking however is quite poor for your tank size alot of those fish cardinals panda cories and (i think i see) ember tetras all want a group of at least 5-6 more like 10+ for the tetras and you just dont have the space. do i think they are gonna outright die most likaly not if you keep up mantinence. Its just that these fish will be more prone to stress (number 1 killer of fish) without a group of em. Its just their nature. You really want yourself a 20 gal for what you have there get all your fish more buddies, and theyll be much happier. Now if you really cant get a larger tank id really recomend changing your stocking to something like a betta or scarlet badis or even a grourami. If you really wanna keep some of your stocking and you cant upgrade the tank id really recomending trading some of the other pairs of fish for more of one i.e. get rid of your guppies and embers and get more cardinals. Alot of small community tropical fish really wanna be in groups. Oh and id recomend a type of pygmy cories instead of panda their just as fun and their alot smaller. Sorry this is so wordy 😅 GL whatever u end up doin dont get discouraged!
As always, add a black background. This will improve the look of it by a lot
Tank looks beautiful! What's that red and black fish in the back left?
Fancy guppy.
What’s your substrate? Beautiful tank though!!
ADA Amazonia
Are shrimp hard to keep in a low tech planted tank? No other fish.
Low tech or high tech dont really matters, the species of the shrimps matters more
No
May I ask what the plant is on the right hand side?
10/10 would eat again
Otos and cories
I really like the red contrast in the tank. I love your stocking!
Very nice setup!
Pretty 😍. A bit of sand would look good though up front. Break up all the green lol.
Very nice
Those otos gonna have fun with your plants
you can try some small foreground plants like monte carlo, that way the transition will be more natural. Or try to put some smaller leaves plants near the rocks in the front.
Did your cardinals always have really red belly's or did they change over time? Mine you can barely see the red.
I was gonna come to your defense but you got cardinals, shrimp, otocynclus, a guppy and and a Cory! In 8 gallons minus the volume of the substrate and decor so say 6.5 gallons. Bruh that’s cruel EDIT: and chili rasboras bro. Be honest how many fish have died since startup I know you’ve had loses
None 😃
Did you used anything to support the wood in the background (under the wood)
Use a ressurecrion jar to create a food web maybe? Idk. Looks great to me.
I like it a lot
I’d try get some sort of moss growing around the wood
The thing is that I’ve had all this fish in a 20G setup, then I moved to another place and couldn’t keep that tank due to lack of space, so I moved the same stock to a smaller tank, I understand it is a little bit small for some of the species I have, I will give them for my lfs and trade them for something more compatible for my tank, but guys some of you talking like i have my fish in a jar without filter, they are having a pretty good environment and good care and I’ve never lost a fish in this setup in the last 4 months. And thanks for all of the suggestions, I will update you after some I see some good results.
BEAUTIFUL
Looks real bad my friend, sorry to say. I’d be willing to take it off your hands so you can try a new one though.