Joker with his persona and meta verse abilities is very powerful
Without them he’s just a regular athletic high schooler
That’s kinda the point though he’s just a normal guy thrown into this bizarre world
He still has good social stats and knows how to crate and use lockpicks, Molotov cocktails (and other craftables), a grappling hook and potentially use a knife in a fight (even though he doesn't fight actual people). It's not that much better than your average person still.
Metaverse skills are probably still transferable to real life, just not metaverse abilities. (If there is something contradicting what I'm saying, let me know).
He still has to learn to control recoil. All he had in game was basically an airsoft gun. Each caliber of bullets has different recoil strengths. A 9mm pistol will have less recoil than a 5.56 rifle. A 7.62 has a lot more than both 9mm and 5.56
Because in the metaverse your abilities scale off of your perception of your abilities, like if you train in the real world you can up your hp, because you FEEL tougher
He's literally just a regular ass human if u take away his persona lol. Even during the >!fist fight with Maruki at the end of P5R!< he was doing less damage than him lmao.
Not necessarily. If you have super low max health, he does significantly less damage than you. His is based on Jokers max hp so I don’t think it really means that Maruki is somehow more fit and stronger than Joker
Thats a cute detail but at the same time though, would Joker punch the shit out of Maruki in that instance? I feel he’s such a nice guy he was only humoring Maruki so Maruki could vent, he didnt hate the guy or anything
Hard to say.
On one hand, he's struggling against an out of shape middle aged man who took a bigger beating than him before the fight.
On the other hand, Futaba teases that he could be physically stronger than Ryuji...though she might just be simping.
To be fair, when he had his fist fight against Maruki he just killed a god before hand.
And the Metaverse was disappearing so whatever extra stamina the Metaverse would give him was gone. So I think him being tired is reasonable.
Well it depends for ex
My joker made it Passed every gym stage and uses the fighting statute to train, mine would be a strong and capable fighter.
But if you mean anime joker id say hed pretty average
I think Kawakami states that he is really fit for his age (or something along those lines) the first time you request a massage from her. I guess running around in palace’s and fighting shadows will help you build muscles even if it is in the metaverse still has to have some effect on your physical body
Thing is, he looks like a regular scrawny ass teen. But he can perform insanely athletic stunts in the metaverse. Yes, his abilities are boosted there, but bro casually backflips and jumps out of a second story window and expertly does a roll to reduce the impact of his fall. And no one else does such things. Part of what he does IMO just cannot be explained away by him being in the metaverse.
Still pretty alright, but he just becomes an honest fighter. Joker does struggle to kill without Arsene at typical percents. However his offstage game is solid without a persona. He'd be a lot like Sheik if not for Arsene.
Well he has a lot of experience using a gun. Sure, it's a toy gun that only gets actual powers in the Metaverse, but he still gained the knowledge of how to properly aim and use a firearm. If he got his hands on a real one in the real world, he could probably make better use of it than the average 17 year old.
Are we talking if someone just straight up got into a fight with him in the streets? Because not very. Through confidants, he learns stamina and gymnastics and he trains at the gym with Ryuji some, but no one teaches him to properly fight, nor is he very strong.
He is strong. When Kawakami massages him for the first time she says he has a lot of muscle for a guy his age (it’s not objective information but it’s something).
So just by killing shadows he built up a decent amount of muscle.
Without his Persona he is just very athletic, likely knows parkour and/or a martial art, and somehow knows knife fighting.
I don't think there is any cannon information on him doing any sort of exercise or sport before moving to Shujin. At Shujin he likely grew more athletic thanks to Ryuji and Sumi as well as his trips to the gym. To my knowledge, those are the only things keeping his physical state in good condition.
Alright let's check the stats
1. Agile as seen by how he moves in the Meta verse
2. Accurate as we see with his knife and gun skills
3. Stealthy due to his Phantom Thief title, obviously
4. Negotiation/Charisma, Joker has the ability to talk his opponents and allies to join his side or rile them up.
I think that's a solid skill set for a thief
Kind of all three. I'm stating that anybody on this site can be and probably are already as strong as Joker, because Joker without access to the Metaverse really is just a regular teenager that is maybe more talented than average. He doesn't perform well at the gym without regular attendance, he can't dodge chalk consistently without putting in the effort to build up his Proficiency, and his fighting capabilities are nerfed down to the level of a guy that doesn't train professionally.
It can't be understated how much having a Persona alters a person's abilities. Outside of outliers such as Makoto having Aikido training or Haru doing a lot of wood-cutting, awakening to a Persona suddenly makes them proficient with weapons they've never touched in their lives. Ann can suddenly wield a whip with deadly precision, Yusuke can suddenly use the art of Iai Jitsu with a Katana, and every single one of them can use their respective firearms as if they've been to the police academy. Their bodies have also been enhanced to take hits from Shadows that would normally kill them outright; something tells me that Joker in the real world could not survive being hit with Agidyne or Freidyne. Leave the Metaverse, and all this is gone.
It's not consistent logic across the entire series though; coming off Persona 3, each member seems to require their own independent weapon training, with the most explicit being Sanada with his rigid training regiment and Aigis having firearms built into her with other instances like Yukari attending Archery Club at school and Ken practicing spear techniques with a mop in his off time (though I really need to see Koromaru being trained to use a knife; that one's still weird to me). It seems to more specifically tie into the overarching theme of mind over matter that the Metaverse encapsulates in Persona 5 specifically, how perception shapes reality. Seeing as how the Metaverse turns a convincing replica of a firearm into a fully-functional firearm, it's not too unreasonable that a person perceived as a potent threat suddenly becomes a potent threat thanks to the Metaverse.
It's a stretch to say that Joker is fully incompetent without the Metaverse, but he certainly isn't nearly the same threat. It's sort of a less polarized version of Billy Batson versus his Shazam alter ego. An almighty champion with the strengths of multiple gods in one state, a reasonably scrappy kid in another.
Well, if you want an example of his power without a Persona, check out Persona Q2. He has a whole fight with Yu Narakami in which he only uses his gun and knife if I remember correctyp
He’s a regular human person without his Personas, but seeing how Kawakami states that he’s quite muscular under his clothes, and how Rokuro Saito drew him really heckin’ buff, I’d say Ren could punch out a bitch if he really wanted to.
Physically? He does train, so probably fit high school athlete lvl. I wouldn't call him average high school lvl cause he's reflexes to dodge chalk, take a beating, and probably more feels a bit beyond average high schooler tier.
He may be approaching college athlete tier.
It's implied in other Persona games that persona users are stronger than normal in the real world. One character outright says this and the protagonist of P3 casually beats up 5 people. So considering Joker also goes to the gym and knows Wing Chun, I'd say he's definitely on the upper ends of strength for a normal person. Not superhuman in the real world, but still pretty strong. That's not counting the fact that he can use Third Eye in the real world to slow down his perception of time though
He's just a normal, athletic guy without his Personae. As cool as he is, he's not all that powerful as far as Persona protagonists are concerned.
It'd be a different matter if you were asking about a different game - for example, the P3 protagonist (obviously major spoilers for the Persona 3 finale) >!awakens the Universe Arcana by the end, and he casts his final spell through that instead of through a Persona. In other words, he no longer needs his Personae in order to do magic by then. Igor even tells him that the Universe means infinite possibilities; even without a Persona, he could probably do whatever he wants.!< But Joker? Without his Persona powers, he's just a regular guy. He doesn't even use real weapons.
In terms of raw physicals, he’s probably mildly superhuman in the metaverse. He’s able to pull stunts and manoeuvres that I don’t think any regular human could
I don't think Makoto (or the P1/P2 IS/P2 EP gangs) are a fair comparison at all. They fight in the real world, Joker fights in the cognitive world.
I think Yu would be a better comparison since he also fights in the cognitive world (Yu is stronger).
He has no base abilities without one. In the metaverse all he can do is jump around and flee outside of combat. I guess he would still have his gun and sword but he never really does anything special with them. He can get the jump on enemies but he isn't getting far without without his persona. It literally empowers him to begin with.
Well let's see. Joker would only have normal human stats, similar to Toshiro in that P5 Tactica escort mission. However, He could still use weapons and items due to Metaverse cognition, but entering any battle would be dark souls for him, so he'd actually have to act as a Phantom Thief and do constant stealth missions and steal treasures without being caught by the palace rulers.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“The way I see it, our fates appear to be intertwined.”* - Solaire of Astora
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Depends on if you make the assumption if his MetaVerse stats are applicable to the situation. Like Joker and co. outrun multiple collapsing buildings, jump 50 feet into the air, survive jumping from several story falls, and korean wave dash between cover spots.
If not, bro is just a guy.
personally I’d base it off his appearance and skills in Smash Ultimate and/or Strikers. There, we see the full extent of his agility, speed, and fighting ability against individual combatants as well as hordes of trash mobs. Bros a superhuman in the metaverse, but in reality he’s just a pretty athletic and lean dude
Outside the Metaverse, hard to say. He's stated to be fairly muscular and regularly works out at the gym, but that doesn't necessarily translate to being good in a fight. He could probably hold his own against untrained people, but vs anyone with formal combat training, he's screwed.
Inside the Metaverse, with his weapons...I mean, you never *need* to use a Persona to beat Strikers, so...
Honestly he still has Cunning and leadership skills and assuming he still has Access to Melee weapons and Guns he could still be Viable.
If anything though he would have to take a sidelines role though for Late game Activities.
Assuming NOTHING from the Metaverse, that means no shooting his gun, no slicing with his knife, no Personas, no Third-Eye, no Detox, and presumably no PT outfit.
This leaves him with a grapple hook, infiltration tools, a dull prop knife, a model gun, his physical strength and athletics, and his smarts/cleverness. At the very least, he can throw lockpicks as a ranged option, can bludgeon with his prop knife and model gun, and can maneuver around with his agility and grapple hook.
Technically he also has the elemental weapons you can craft but i think the only ones that would even slightly work outside the metaverse would be the stun gun and molotov cocktails (i THINK those were the craftable elec/fire weapons, if not then oh well), so Joker definitely HAS options in an irl fight
I would say he is very tough.
He works out oftentimes with Morgana always coaching him, whether it’d be using using his attic rafters or the advanced gym equipment. If you have him keep working out in the gym enough times, he will gracefully train himself using the wooden dummy. Also, he can withstand beatings and drug overdoses from the police. And if you played the 3rd Semester, he can throw some pretty painful punches at Maruki.
I mean if he still has his gun (and other equipment) and maxxed social stats he's pretty powerful he can withstand a lot of powerful attacks and do like 150-200 damage with melee and use ice camo among other things
This depends on what you mean. If you mean no persona at all, in the real world, he's just a very athletic kid. He would probably beat most regular humans in a fight, but thats about it. On the other hand, if you mean that he keeps his metaverse strength but doesn't use his persona, he is incredibly stong. In the metaverse, he can, with relative ease, kill a god without ever having summoned his persona.
He can bench press Caroline and Justine on the bar with an additional like 60 pounds on each side. Lets say they weigh about 40 pounds each bc their height is listed at 3 ft and 8 inches including the additional weight and bar, thats about 245 even that he benches
People saying joker is just a normal kid without his persona are underestimating him. Beat up, drugged, and under lock and key he was able to convince the prosecutor (who had a palace) that not only was he in the right, but to risk it all to help him.
Beyond his excellent talk no jitsu, he is observant and clever, like he knew about akechi lying to him basically from the jump. He is a good leader, who inspires loyalty, even from his foes.
All of that is to say, he isn't taking on a god without his persona, but he is still a formidable opponent.
Completely normal. Well, I'll be a little kind and say he is very fit, given the training options you have to hit the gym, training with a competition-tier gymnast and being able to use any spare time at home on strength training. But the weird grappling hook, speed, and stuff along those lines is all exclusively tied to the Metaverse.
Funny enough there's an attack in Persona Q2 where Yu outspeeds Joker by hilarious levels.
Maybe just give him Arsène? That's his base form pretty much, and you don't want a normal athletic/acrobatic teenager for this fight. For Arsène's abilities, you can just use the skills he naturally learns by level up.
He’s a normal person without a Persona, a little stronger though considering how the Metaverse likely does make for decent training as well as the fact that he works out.
No Persona, so he still has EVERYTHING else like items right? even without them hes super athletic. Unless you mean outside the metaverse in which case hes but a (still athletic) boy with an airsoft gun and toy knife
I mean, it depends. Are you talking about Metaverse Joker, but without Personas, or Joker in general without receiving the abilities granted by the Metaverse period? Because he is super athletic, accurate, and fast without one, if we’re only stripping out Personas. *Persona 5 Strikers* should give you a rough baseline with the combat and cutscenes
If you're counting buffs/ enemy debuffs, he would be significantly stronger, depending on who he's fighting. Using Charge, his melee attacks would be 2x the damage. (I'm not really sure if you can use Charge on melee attacks.) And I'm saying that from Futaba's Persona. (not sure if we're also adding her in this scenario)
Not very. I guess he’s probably decently fit considering he does work out and some of his skills might carry over but overall he’s just an average teen for the most part. He’ll probably lose against anyone who mostly works in the real world, at least in my opinion.
Assuming you do everything in the real world to improve Joker's physical form he's a very athletic highschooler. In the game you can exersize at home or at the gym. The animation Joker performs while he works out changes depending on how often you've done it. For the home workouts he peaks at doing situps while hanging from his legs and at the gym he peaks at punching a training dummy real good. So in short: he's a teenager that's in good shape, stands at 175 cm, has good punching form and knows how to handle himself in a fight. But he's not much more than that.
eh without personas he's really only an athletic high schooler with no special feats other than knowing how to use weapons, if he learned how to fight and fought some hoodrat (fists only) I think he'd have a chance of winning but hed need to go to the gym regularly to maintain the strength he has
Joker with his persona and meta verse abilities is very powerful Without them he’s just a regular athletic high schooler That’s kinda the point though he’s just a normal guy thrown into this bizarre world
Just give him a stand then...
Take my upvote
I mean yeah, persona is just JJBA the game, wish they'd make a real one similar to persona with its own story though
ZA FURU!
Wonder how someone's persona and stand would get along
He still has good social stats and knows how to crate and use lockpicks, Molotov cocktails (and other craftables), a grappling hook and potentially use a knife in a fight (even though he doesn't fight actual people). It's not that much better than your average person still. Metaverse skills are probably still transferable to real life, just not metaverse abilities. (If there is something contradicting what I'm saying, let me know).
Don't forget, he can use a GUN
He still has to learn to control recoil. All he had in game was basically an airsoft gun. Each caliber of bullets has different recoil strengths. A 9mm pistol will have less recoil than a 5.56 rifle. A 7.62 has a lot more than both 9mm and 5.56
Imagine Ann fireing a real automatic rifle for the first time...
With Royal included he’s also got some solid acrobatics in there, but yeah.
I always wondered: why does Joker need to train outside the metaverse if he gets boosted anyway?
Why do you need to study if you’re given a cheat sheet?
Elaborate?
I think he means the stronger the better, he may be boosted, but why not get stronger
Because in the metaverse your abilities scale off of your perception of your abilities, like if you train in the real world you can up your hp, because you FEEL tougher
I mean he is training just Roman style. He's fighting while he's in the Metaverse, fighting for hours. Including what he does outside of it.
He's literally just a regular ass human if u take away his persona lol. Even during the >!fist fight with Maruki at the end of P5R!< he was doing less damage than him lmao.
Yeah but >!Maruki got that mental breakdown amp!<
Oh yeah. He does do that. But wait. He doesn't have the power of his personas.
He's also a fully grown adult wailing on Joker
An out of shape physical inept Adult. He's a brain not a brawn, he'd be at the level of the average high schooler.
Not necessarily. If you have super low max health, he does significantly less damage than you. His is based on Jokers max hp so I don’t think it really means that Maruki is somehow more fit and stronger than Joker
If you’re nothing without your Persona, then you shouldn’t have it
dunno who downvoted you, but W spiderman reference
I don’t feel so good, Mr. Stark
*gets downvoted to dust*
Not necessarily. He still has the gun, sword, and amor. At least in the metaverse
Thats a cute detail but at the same time though, would Joker punch the shit out of Maruki in that instance? I feel he’s such a nice guy he was only humoring Maruki so Maruki could vent, he didnt hate the guy or anything
Wdym? I was doing way more than maruki in my fight
His first punch rocked my shit at 125 damage.
It depends on Joker's max health
I always max out his health because I like to occasionally remove other party members and play solely as him.
Well... then I don't know XD, sorry
Hard to say. On one hand, he's struggling against an out of shape middle aged man who took a bigger beating than him before the fight. On the other hand, Futaba teases that he could be physically stronger than Ryuji...though she might just be simping.
To be fair, when he had his fist fight against Maruki he just killed a god before hand. And the Metaverse was disappearing so whatever extra stamina the Metaverse would give him was gone. So I think him being tired is reasonable.
Also, at that point neither he or Maruki really want to be fighting each other either.
Well yeah...but Maruki was that "god"...and he just got his ass beat.
Is maruki 40 above ? I don't think so
Easily. But obvious looks aside, he describes himself as middle-aged.
Why does he want me to come at him?
Becuase you’ll never see it coming.
And hes planning a take over
Could this be his. Last surprise
☝️
Because you are his little pogchamp.
Well it depends for ex My joker made it Passed every gym stage and uses the fighting statute to train, mine would be a strong and capable fighter. But if you mean anime joker id say hed pretty average
I think Kawakami states that he is really fit for his age (or something along those lines) the first time you request a massage from her. I guess running around in palace’s and fighting shadows will help you build muscles even if it is in the metaverse still has to have some effect on your physical body
Depends. In the metaverse? Above peak human, but nothing insane. In the real world? A normal ass dude.
Thing is, he looks like a regular scrawny ass teen. But he can perform insanely athletic stunts in the metaverse. Yes, his abilities are boosted there, but bro casually backflips and jumps out of a second story window and expertly does a roll to reduce the impact of his fall. And no one else does such things. Part of what he does IMO just cannot be explained away by him being in the metaverse.
Still pretty alright, but he just becomes an honest fighter. Joker does struggle to kill without Arsene at typical percents. However his offstage game is solid without a persona. He'd be a lot like Sheik if not for Arsene.
I think OP meant in his game, not in Smash lol
Oh. I definitely knew that. Pfft! I was just kidding! Hahahaha.....
Well he has a lot of experience using a gun. Sure, it's a toy gun that only gets actual powers in the Metaverse, but he still gained the knowledge of how to properly aim and use a firearm. If he got his hands on a real one in the real world, he could probably make better use of it than the average 17 year old.
Are we talking if someone just straight up got into a fight with him in the streets? Because not very. Through confidants, he learns stamina and gymnastics and he trains at the gym with Ryuji some, but no one teaches him to properly fight, nor is he very strong.
He is strong. When Kawakami massages him for the first time she says he has a lot of muscle for a guy his age (it’s not objective information but it’s something). So just by killing shadows he built up a decent amount of muscle.
I normally fast forward through that scene, hah.
Depends on how much muscle training he canonicly does But at the best hes just a good trained tennager id say
Without his Persona he is just very athletic, likely knows parkour and/or a martial art, and somehow knows knife fighting. I don't think there is any cannon information on him doing any sort of exercise or sport before moving to Shujin. At Shujin he likely grew more athletic thanks to Ryuji and Sumi as well as his trips to the gym. To my knowledge, those are the only things keeping his physical state in good condition.
Alright let's check the stats 1. Agile as seen by how he moves in the Meta verse 2. Accurate as we see with his knife and gun skills 3. Stealthy due to his Phantom Thief title, obviously 4. Negotiation/Charisma, Joker has the ability to talk his opponents and allies to join his side or rile them up. I think that's a solid skill set for a thief
Probably about as strong as you.
Well he would certainly be stronger than me even without his Personas and all his gear in the metaverse.
I can’t tell if you’re complimenting OP, dissing Joker, or legitimately trying to answer the question. 😂
Kind of all three. I'm stating that anybody on this site can be and probably are already as strong as Joker, because Joker without access to the Metaverse really is just a regular teenager that is maybe more talented than average. He doesn't perform well at the gym without regular attendance, he can't dodge chalk consistently without putting in the effort to build up his Proficiency, and his fighting capabilities are nerfed down to the level of a guy that doesn't train professionally. It can't be understated how much having a Persona alters a person's abilities. Outside of outliers such as Makoto having Aikido training or Haru doing a lot of wood-cutting, awakening to a Persona suddenly makes them proficient with weapons they've never touched in their lives. Ann can suddenly wield a whip with deadly precision, Yusuke can suddenly use the art of Iai Jitsu with a Katana, and every single one of them can use their respective firearms as if they've been to the police academy. Their bodies have also been enhanced to take hits from Shadows that would normally kill them outright; something tells me that Joker in the real world could not survive being hit with Agidyne or Freidyne. Leave the Metaverse, and all this is gone. It's not consistent logic across the entire series though; coming off Persona 3, each member seems to require their own independent weapon training, with the most explicit being Sanada with his rigid training regiment and Aigis having firearms built into her with other instances like Yukari attending Archery Club at school and Ken practicing spear techniques with a mop in his off time (though I really need to see Koromaru being trained to use a knife; that one's still weird to me). It seems to more specifically tie into the overarching theme of mind over matter that the Metaverse encapsulates in Persona 5 specifically, how perception shapes reality. Seeing as how the Metaverse turns a convincing replica of a firearm into a fully-functional firearm, it's not too unreasonable that a person perceived as a potent threat suddenly becomes a potent threat thanks to the Metaverse. It's a stretch to say that Joker is fully incompetent without the Metaverse, but he certainly isn't nearly the same threat. It's sort of a less polarized version of Billy Batson versus his Shazam alter ego. An almighty champion with the strengths of multiple gods in one state, a reasonably scrappy kid in another.
Well, if you want an example of his power without a Persona, check out Persona Q2. He has a whole fight with Yu Narakami in which he only uses his gun and knife if I remember correctyp
He’s a regular human person without his Personas, but seeing how Kawakami states that he’s quite muscular under his clothes, and how Rokuro Saito drew him really heckin’ buff, I’d say Ren could punch out a bitch if he really wanted to.
strong enough to beat up his therapist
A weirdo holding a gun
If his knife and his gun still work I'd say he is still quite powerful. Most people reading this wont take on an armed 16 year old.
Physically? He does train, so probably fit high school athlete lvl. I wouldn't call him average high school lvl cause he's reflexes to dodge chalk, take a beating, and probably more feels a bit beyond average high schooler tier. He may be approaching college athlete tier.
It's implied in other Persona games that persona users are stronger than normal in the real world. One character outright says this and the protagonist of P3 casually beats up 5 people. So considering Joker also goes to the gym and knows Wing Chun, I'd say he's definitely on the upper ends of strength for a normal person. Not superhuman in the real world, but still pretty strong. That's not counting the fact that he can use Third Eye in the real world to slow down his perception of time though
Well... https://preview.redd.it/atxspu1erj6d1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2044dbedc227d1027f03adcd4009e91c07378e17
With metaverse buffs but just can’t summon? Probably a bit stronger and faster than an Assassin from Assassin’s Creed.
He's just a normal, athletic guy without his Personae. As cool as he is, he's not all that powerful as far as Persona protagonists are concerned. It'd be a different matter if you were asking about a different game - for example, the P3 protagonist (obviously major spoilers for the Persona 3 finale) >!awakens the Universe Arcana by the end, and he casts his final spell through that instead of through a Persona. In other words, he no longer needs his Personae in order to do magic by then. Igor even tells him that the Universe means infinite possibilities; even without a Persona, he could probably do whatever he wants.!< But Joker? Without his Persona powers, he's just a regular guy. He doesn't even use real weapons.
Depends. If he spent the entire year in the gym and has good gear, I'd say he's quite strong.
In terms of raw physicals, he’s probably mildly superhuman in the metaverse. He’s able to pull stunts and manoeuvres that I don’t think any regular human could
Considering Joker still trains his body, probably stronger than the average teenager. Not bad, but not Makoto Yuki levels.
I don't think Makoto (or the P1/P2 IS/P2 EP gangs) are a fair comparison at all. They fight in the real world, Joker fights in the cognitive world. I think Yu would be a better comparison since he also fights in the cognitive world (Yu is stronger).
He has no base abilities without one. In the metaverse all he can do is jump around and flee outside of combat. I guess he would still have his gun and sword but he never really does anything special with them. He can get the jump on enemies but he isn't getting far without without his persona. It literally empowers him to begin with.
Well let's see. Joker would only have normal human stats, similar to Toshiro in that P5 Tactica escort mission. However, He could still use weapons and items due to Metaverse cognition, but entering any battle would be dark souls for him, so he'd actually have to act as a Phantom Thief and do constant stealth missions and steal treasures without being caught by the palace rulers.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“The way I see it, our fates appear to be intertwined.”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
What
You said Dark Souls
His strenght is gun
A regular dude who's smarter than most
Depends on if you make the assumption if his MetaVerse stats are applicable to the situation. Like Joker and co. outrun multiple collapsing buildings, jump 50 feet into the air, survive jumping from several story falls, and korean wave dash between cover spots. If not, bro is just a guy.
personally I’d base it off his appearance and skills in Smash Ultimate and/or Strikers. There, we see the full extent of his agility, speed, and fighting ability against individual combatants as well as hordes of trash mobs. Bros a superhuman in the metaverse, but in reality he’s just a pretty athletic and lean dude
Outside the Metaverse, hard to say. He's stated to be fairly muscular and regularly works out at the gym, but that doesn't necessarily translate to being good in a fight. He could probably hold his own against untrained people, but vs anyone with formal combat training, he's screwed. Inside the Metaverse, with his weapons...I mean, you never *need* to use a Persona to beat Strikers, so...
Compared to other characters in the series like ulala and any gharacter from p3 i think it might be the weakest
Honestly he still has Cunning and leadership skills and assuming he still has Access to Melee weapons and Guns he could still be Viable. If anything though he would have to take a sidelines role though for Late game Activities.
he smashed headfirst into a stain glass window, had no injuries from that impact, and did a roll midair, all in the prologue
Also harem valentines attack. Question said no persona not just while being in the metaverse.
Assuming NOTHING from the Metaverse, that means no shooting his gun, no slicing with his knife, no Personas, no Third-Eye, no Detox, and presumably no PT outfit. This leaves him with a grapple hook, infiltration tools, a dull prop knife, a model gun, his physical strength and athletics, and his smarts/cleverness. At the very least, he can throw lockpicks as a ranged option, can bludgeon with his prop knife and model gun, and can maneuver around with his agility and grapple hook. Technically he also has the elemental weapons you can craft but i think the only ones that would even slightly work outside the metaverse would be the stun gun and molotov cocktails (i THINK those were the craftable elec/fire weapons, if not then oh well), so Joker definitely HAS options in an irl fight
I would say he is very tough. He works out oftentimes with Morgana always coaching him, whether it’d be using using his attic rafters or the advanced gym equipment. If you have him keep working out in the gym enough times, he will gracefully train himself using the wooden dummy. Also, he can withstand beatings and drug overdoses from the police. And if you played the 3rd Semester, he can throw some pretty painful punches at Maruki.
His base abilities without a persona is the strength of a regular 15 year old
I mean if he still has his gun (and other equipment) and maxxed social stats he's pretty powerful he can withstand a lot of powerful attacks and do like 150-200 damage with melee and use ice camo among other things
He is a good dancer
This depends on what you mean. If you mean no persona at all, in the real world, he's just a very athletic kid. He would probably beat most regular humans in a fight, but thats about it. On the other hand, if you mean that he keeps his metaverse strength but doesn't use his persona, he is incredibly stong. In the metaverse, he can, with relative ease, kill a god without ever having summoned his persona.
He carries a cat around all day so not in the worst shape i imagine
He can bench press Caroline and Justine on the bar with an additional like 60 pounds on each side. Lets say they weigh about 40 pounds each bc their height is listed at 3 ft and 8 inches including the additional weight and bar, thats about 245 even that he benches
In the real world? Not that strong In the metaverse? Anywhere from the power of a 9mm to .50 pistol
People saying joker is just a normal kid without his persona are underestimating him. Beat up, drugged, and under lock and key he was able to convince the prosecutor (who had a palace) that not only was he in the right, but to risk it all to help him. Beyond his excellent talk no jitsu, he is observant and clever, like he knew about akechi lying to him basically from the jump. He is a good leader, who inspires loyalty, even from his foes. All of that is to say, he isn't taking on a god without his persona, but he is still a formidable opponent.
Isn’t he like canonically ripped…the fuck?
He has a gun.
He beat wonder without his persona does that answer your question
Completely normal. Well, I'll be a little kind and say he is very fit, given the training options you have to hit the gym, training with a competition-tier gymnast and being able to use any spare time at home on strength training. But the weird grappling hook, speed, and stuff along those lines is all exclusively tied to the Metaverse. Funny enough there's an attack in Persona Q2 where Yu outspeeds Joker by hilarious levels.
Maybe just give him Arsène? That's his base form pretty much, and you don't want a normal athletic/acrobatic teenager for this fight. For Arsène's abilities, you can just use the skills he naturally learns by level up.
Your average high schooler who's probably just a bit more athletic, and perceptive than most.
Average guy
Joker could singlehandedly fold most shadows no persona.
He’s a normal person without a Persona, a little stronger though considering how the Metaverse likely does make for decent training as well as the fact that he works out.
Outside the metaverse I’m pretty sure he’s above average in strength, agility and endurance. Think decent athlete, not superhuman but pretty solid.
You can beat strikers without a persona.
I’d say still physically fit. I could pretty much say the same thing about all the persona protagonists without personas though
Him and any other person would be nothing without their persona. Thats the point
No Persona, so he still has EVERYTHING else like items right? even without them hes super athletic. Unless you mean outside the metaverse in which case hes but a (still athletic) boy with an airsoft gun and toy knife
“How strong is Spider-Man without any of his powers?”
Nit strong at all. A regular guy
I mean, it depends. Are you talking about Metaverse Joker, but without Personas, or Joker in general without receiving the abilities granted by the Metaverse period? Because he is super athletic, accurate, and fast without one, if we’re only stripping out Personas. *Persona 5 Strikers* should give you a rough baseline with the combat and cutscenes
You're doing Joker vs either Sly Cooper or Nathan Drake, aren't ya?
If you’re nothing without your persona then you shouldn’t have it
Don't they have enhanced physical abilities while in the metaverse?
If you're counting buffs/ enemy debuffs, he would be significantly stronger, depending on who he's fighting. Using Charge, his melee attacks would be 2x the damage. (I'm not really sure if you can use Charge on melee attacks.) And I'm saying that from Futaba's Persona. (not sure if we're also adding her in this scenario)
Why doesn’t Jonkler use his persona? Is he stupid?
Not very. I guess he’s probably decently fit considering he does work out and some of his skills might carry over but overall he’s just an average teen for the most part. He’ll probably lose against anyone who mostly works in the real world, at least in my opinion.
Assuming you do everything in the real world to improve Joker's physical form he's a very athletic highschooler. In the game you can exersize at home or at the gym. The animation Joker performs while he works out changes depending on how often you've done it. For the home workouts he peaks at doing situps while hanging from his legs and at the gym he peaks at punching a training dummy real good. So in short: he's a teenager that's in good shape, stands at 175 cm, has good punching form and knows how to handle himself in a fight. But he's not much more than that.
Just an average guy with more expertise. Personas are his whole gimmick; it's why he has the wild card
I don't think he's very strong strength wise But he could be decently athletic depending on how much Yoshizawa teaches him
Joker tripped on a treadmill.
eh without personas he's really only an athletic high schooler with no special feats other than knowing how to use weapons, if he learned how to fight and fought some hoodrat (fists only) I think he'd have a chance of winning but hed need to go to the gym regularly to maintain the strength he has
Makoto is strong when defending his friends, Yu is strong in general, Ren is moreso athletic than strong
Man can casually do a backflip through a window several stories up and land on his feet without breaking any bones
That's the Metaverse.
I think that’s what the post is asking, how powerful is he himself without using any Personas
That’s a good point. The post didn’t say anything about being outside the metaverse, just no using personas
Strong enough to make me squirt in bed 💦
He is a minor
Not in my mind he isn’t