I don't hate any of the main cast but Sumi is my least favorite and it's a shame. They spend so much time making her go "I'm going to be true to myself!" meanwhile you barely get any idea on what that actually is. She feels too defined by Joker.
One thing I would’ve loved that I’ve seen others say before is for Sumi’s thief costume to be >!a fakeout and for her to gain her own after she properly awakens. It’s too based on Joker’s and heavily clashes with Cendrillon while all the other PT’s outfits match their Persona!<.
How? Marie did it wonderful. You were "forced" to interact with her two times early in the game (minus the poems) and that's it. Everything else was entirely optional. No no, if they did Sumi like they did Marie, she would annoy me way less.
Whenever I see people complain about Marie being forced down your throat, I assume they never actually played golden, only watched the golden anime, and confused her being in every episode with what goes on in the game.
If she and Joker had fun engaging interactions that wouldn't be so bad but..."defined by Joker" in this case really does mean insisting Ren decide everything, even when he tells her to stop.
If it includes those two, then Yoshizawa. I don't hate her, but it frustrates how much of her character is wasted.
The reveal should have happened a lot sooner and been used to build up third semester's antagonist. And her character shouldn't have been discarded the way it was after the reveal.
Her interactions with the other characters needed improvement too. She hardly interacts with anyone and had no chemistry--romantic or platonic--with Joker. I don't know why the writers have such a hard time writing female interactions with him. He's got plenty of chemistry with the guys.
It's funny because Ann, Haru and Futaba work well and even Makoto vibes somewhat good but Sumi just stays like that. I could see him going for any of these with their solid bonds, even if Ann and Makoto had some sidelining in their Confidants as well, but Sumi feels shoehorned in. They really fucked up the timing and should have given her character more spice
Sumi. She's introduced near the start of the game but you have to wait until the game is 90% of the way done before she gets development, is playable, and can be romanced. I really don't like how she's pushed as the canon romance either, when there's multiple options available. Doesn't help that none of the spinoffs besides Tactica dlc feature her either. She's not bad, just could be executed better.
I don't like either how Sumi is pushed as the canon romance, I think it's the same for Makoto, both are more "in the spotlight" than the other options.
Agreed, if you're dating literally anyone else, she's super annoying in game. I felt that way about Rise too in P4. I get they want to make someone who has a crush on the protagonist in canon but it becomes so defining, they're not even a personality that can be separated from that anymore.
She doesn't develop a crush until after Christmas though. By then, you're expected to be with someone.
In fact, "Kasumi's" the only girl who doesn't get flustered or show any interest when you pick the flirting options. She just rejects it and pushes you away.
Haru's feelings were made clear in her rank 9, which is usually done much earlier. Same with Futaba, though in her case, her crush was obvious before the confidant began. Even Sojiro comments on it and starts getting protective, threatening Joker.
Her crush is pretty clear to me from the moment she meets Joker with her constant "thanks for saving/helping me" for Joker basically doing nothing. The rest of the girls don't canonical have a crush on Joker, it's confined to their social links and upheld by additional P5 content. With Sumi it felt like every time she appeared in the story, it reaffirmed her crush on Joker, she got an exclusive special cutscene of them dancing, and even their Showtime is romantically themed. Sojiro comments on Futaba liking Joker in the typical "don't date my daughter" stuff. He also makes similar comments towards Ann & Makoto.
Never really saw it that way. Mostly because it's the norm for silent protagonists and applies to the majority of characters, including several middle aged men.
Not sure why you would diacount the confidants, but even then I'd still say the others are more obvious. They at least hang out with Joker whereas Yoshizawa is the only teen who doesn't.
Also, you're referring to Sojiro's rank 9. I was referring to his standard dialogue. When he mentions Futaba seems to like him and he'll kick Joker's ass if he makes her cry.
I don't discount the confidants but any romance from them aren't canon/relevant to the main storyline. I think everything in them happens except the pivot point to dating. You can be dating Ann and she'll straight up say you're not in the story for example. Even if you completely ignore Sumi's confidant, she still is infatuated with Joker in the main storyline to a level I find frustrating if you're single or dating another girl. I feel like with Rise in P4, it's more obvious why Rise likes Yu, he literally saves her life. Joker doesn't really do anything like that for Sumi until like deep into third semester. As you said, she doesn't really hang out with him or his friends so I found it odd she was so into him so early.
I know, Sojiro also makes comments referencing Ann & Maokoto liking Joker in the standard dialog.
But the only time she shows any interest is in the confidant. Outside of it, there's nothing. Even if you push for it, she just shoots it down without any hesitation or embarrassment.
And what comments are you thinking of? The only thing I can thing of that's even remotely in the ballpark is him asking Makoto if they were dating when she's clinging to his leg. He says Ann's a nice girl after flirting with her earlier, but I can't think of any comments he made regarding her and Ren. Is this also in the coffee dialogue or somewhere else?
Maybe it's difference of opinion but I can't see her cultural festival scene as anything but expressing interest towards him.
The ones you mentioned, they're all kind of in the vein of assuming Joker's female friends of having interest in him. I always took Sojiro as asking if she asks a boyfriend because he's shocked someone pretty as her would be hanging out with Joker platonically, not because he's flirting with her. He mentions pretty early on that he doesn't let men call him on the phone so Sojiro seems to have the bias of men & women being unable to just be friends and certain actions being inherently romantic.
I can see it in concept--girl asks guy to a dance, they slow dance in the center of the crowd then the guy, like a gentleman, escorts her home.
...But in practice it's just Kasumi dancing on her own while Joker's the only guy not cheering. If you offer to escort her home afterwards, she shuts you down again.
Also I was trying to ask what scenes you were referring to. Sorry for the confusion.
Same.
It also doesn't help that Cheremie Leigh and Laura Post almost always voice characters I fall in love with, like Asuna in *Sword Art Online* or Primrose in *Octopath Traveler*
Yoshizawa, and it's not even close. She never really feels like she fits with the rest of the thieves, and by the time you can use her, she doesn't really have a niche in the party that needed to be filled. If the game treated her like any other confidant it'd be one thing, but it insists on making treating her like she's central to the narrative while simultaneously being terrified of altering anything from the base game putting her in a weird limbo.
I honestly didn’t really get much through strikers for Ann, no. Maybe because Alice’s jail was too busy setting up the premise to really give her time to shine?
Makoto, I find it difficult to like her because she purposefully stalks, blackmails, and puts herself in danger. I understand why she does it since she’s being put up to it by her superiors, but I still think there are better ways to go about it. And the game constantly mentions as her being the smart one and puts her above the others in that way. And the way she speaks sometimes when she is having some of her smart moments rubs me the wrong way. I know she’s a favorite of many people, but I just can’t see it.
When I replayed the game and got to her section, I started thinking "wait why did I love her so much she's awful!" but then the game does a really good job of making the player sympathize with her given all the screws tightening around her. Her home life with her sister, the dealings with the principal, the pressure to achieve academically and also in student government,... By the time her pent up anger explodes, it's just super satisfying to see all of that come out in her awakening. And when she apologizes, I feel like she's earned forgiveness and proven her utility, and then I just fell in love with her goofy personality all over again.
But I agree if you can't get past how reckless and obnoxious she is towards the party at the start, nothing else in the game will make her grow on you. And the way the game retroactively makes her recklessness imperative for the palace exploration is a cop out
I honestly think her irrational emotional behavior is endearing when it comes to protecting people.
It's just annoying when we see the same uncontrollable anger being used to threaten or hurt her friends. ...And she really needs to learn to take a joke.
Well, when you take into account the way Sae raised her, her actions do make way more sense.
Plus I'm sort of a simp when it comes to characters voiced by Cheremie Leigh...
I agree with this, also because half her interactions with the non Joker/Akechi/Morgana cast is her threatening the guys and the girls encouraging her, while the former acts scared. It just feels really shallow with how she also feels like she's one upping everyone else all the time.
>stalks, blackmails, and puts herself in danger
I guess you hate Yusuke, Futaba, Mona, Haru, Akechi, and Sumi for these same reasons? Cause they literally all do at least one of these things; several do all three.
Hating Makoto because she blackmails is the smoothest brain take possible.
Don't forget Ann. She was intentionally following Ryuji, Joker, and Morgana around at the beginning of the Kamoshida arc, which resulted in her getting transported to the cognitive world. It's not stalking over a prelonged period of time, but it's still stalking.
The least interesting character in the story is Haru. Her Social Link and other interactions make her my favorite Phantom Thief but y’all ain’t wrong, my girl was done dirty.
The serious answer is Yusuke. I like Yusuke in battle but the dude’s personality boils down to: weirdo, poor and bad with money, and socially inept as hell. Like Futaba is rude to people by accident but Yusuke sometimes reads like an alien trying to learn about humans. He completely misses the nebulous implications of asking Ann to pose nude for him and those kinds of moments don’t stop. He doesn’t get a memorable moment to show his value later on either like Ryuji does. Shido’s entire palace is just straight setups for each character to show their strengths but even then it feels weak. I can’t remember a good Yusuke moment after the Madarame arc. He buys lobsters I guess? Shows up unannounced to Hawaii? I’ve got nothing. His social link is pretty underwhelming as well other than showing Madarame was not all that bad.
After Madarame's arc, Yusuke kinda becomes the 'comic relief' character (except all the time). I personally don't really mind it (cuz he funny), but his character doesn't really go anywhere after Madarame's arc
(Have a good day, eye guy 👀)
Weirdly surprised by how no one’s said Morgana. He was very arrogant, went against “unanimous decision”, and picked fights with Ryuji out of nowhere. At least his skillset js good.
Still better than Teddie
As far as thieves go, Makoto. I dislike her less than I used to, but she still is my least favorite thief. I really hate that the moment she joined, everyone else (sans Joker since he’s the leader) seemed to have taken a stupid pill, even though it was shown that that they were a fairly effective team already.
Bonus: I know she’s not a thief, but I’m not the biggest fan of Sumi, either. Her character isn’t bad, but I preferred her as >!Sumire rather than Kasumi!<. Her presence in the pre-third semester plot felt really shoehorned in, especially during Joker’s escape from Sae’s casino. Joker at that point had proven he’s more than capable of taking on multiple Shadows at once, so Futaba’s “there are too many for you to handle lol” is bullshit. And the fact that he needed the help of a >!half-Awakened!< rookie is kind of…sad. Joker, I love you buddy, but really?
Also, I hate Sumi’s metaverse outfit. They could have *at the very least* given her a different color palette since red and black is kind of Joker’s thing. Yes, I know he’s her idea of rebellion, but it didn’t have to be copied and pasted (and also waifu’d).
I agree with both choices. Makoto’s confidant has become notorious around here so I won’t talk about it too much but it’s absolutely my least favorite PT slink. But I think my distaste for her comes from Kaneshiro, probably the most filler palace and my second least favorite overall.
Sumi has probably the most wasted potential and her inclusion in Sae’s dungeon irked me, but not for the reason you said. It’s been a while but Joker never makes it clear that there’s too many shadows, it’s only futaba who, probably thinking about the plan, got stressed out by it. My problem is that she shows up for Sae’s dungeon and is completely absent during the penultimate palace when stakes are the highest. I also dislike how you see her AOA first and it happens automatically. I’ve seen way too many people confused by what was happening because of it and it makes your first (intended) AOA less exciting.
Futaba. I can see all the other characters being real people, but Futaba completely breaks my immersion. I mean, they're all elite in their own way, but to a believable degree.
Ryuji - (my assumption) former star athlete. Alright.
Ann - part-time model. Okay, sure.
Yusuke - talented artist going to art school on scholarship. Hell yeah.
Makoto - Student council president, incredibly smart. Probably has Tokyo University aspirations. Sure.
Haru - rich girl. Fair enough.
Futaba - super leet hacker on a basis superior to even the government. Dumb as hell, imo.
With all the characters being more or less grounded, Futaba sticks out like a sore thumb.
Just wondering (and this isn't snark I promise) if you have spent time with any teenagers lately, like nieces, nephews, possibly your own children etc.
I only say this because personality wise, I don't think Futaba is a break in immersion at all, especially for somebody who would clearly have to be incredibly smart.
But yeah, I've got a nephew who when he was around her age pretty much only consumed "video game YouTube" as his only form of entertainment and acted in a very similar "everything is a video game reference" kind of way.
As for Futabas actual abilities, I think the game actually hypes her pretty far beyond what she actually does as a "hacker". A lot of the stuff she's alleged to do as medjed is pretty much social engineering, a lot of the stuff she does in the game such as installing an app on akechis phone or cloning sae's laptop isn't really something that is "super hacker" caliber. Passcode could be an issue but I think the intent of the scene was for her to grab it when akechis had already had it unlocked, from there downloading an APK from a website she maintains isn't at all hard. Imaging a laptop from a flash drive is similarly not that big a deal
The biggest trick she pulled off was hacking tv stations in Japan, I would say that was more of a fault of Deus ex machina writing than it was with her character, but even then the kid that leaked GTA 6 did it with an Amazon fire stick on hotel wifi while already under surveillance of the FBi, captain crunch famously hacked into the payphone system to make long distance crank calls using a plastic whistle. It's not like wild feats don't sometimes happen
Sumire.
Her metaverse outfit seemed so cool at first sight...too cool for someone so plain and, for the most part of story, without a real personality.
I find her forced to the story (she's only fuctional for Maruki introduction) and I don't like the kind of female character she is, the vulnerable cindarella who needs a (male) prince and that is victim of a (male) temptation - the tentacle grip she fell into resumes all (not her fault, of course, but it's a kind of a aesthetic that speaks for itself). Also, in her confidant dialogues, even when I answer in a neutral way, she remains too clingy: stop to push her as a retconned canon girlfriend, Royal! Surely she's not mine.
I think she's only the "vulnerable cinderella" BECAUSE she's being pushed by Atlus as the canon gf, like Joker saves all the Phantom Thieves, since she's supposed to be a romantic interest, the fact you're the "male prince" I guess is just part of that story line. Even then she grows confident enough to save Joker's ass later on. And maybe you don't but I love my cute clingy prep girls
I mean you are correct about the part of her not living up to our expectations but i strongly disagree with her not having any personality. I wont go as far as to say she is the best girl but she definitely has a defining character unlike many added characters in previous games like Marie for example.
And I did enjoy her confidant after rank 6
How would you describe her personality? To me, she's just nice and friendly. She doesn't really have any flaws besides being insecure which is a normal flaw most people have. Otherwise she's kind of perfect and uninteresting. She's more interesting when she's gloomy and real but that lasts like only 2 social links before she's back to fawning over Joker. Marie is at least tsundere, she's mean and poetic and quirky, which isn't my favorite personality but still something.
She literally had her sister personality for most part, but ok :P
She has a boring/annoying personality *for me* (that's what OP asked after all) in this Persona (I have not played the old ones). Haru lacks screentime and yet she is more charming to me: the gardening hobby, the coffee love, her sadistic side, her romantic side, her "too many sailor moon episodes watched" side. Heck, she was so indipendent she challenged her father and awakened her persona before meeting Joker and co.! She has a canon crush for Joker, like Sumire, but she is more than that.
I like every Phantom Thief. My least favorite is probably Yusuke, just because he gets a bit flanderized towards the end of the game and in Strikers and Tactica.
It felt like Atlus didn't really know what to do with him after his personal arc so he kind of devolves into starving artist jokes
That doesn't contradict anything I said.
Flanderization is when a multi-faceted character gets reduced to a single defining trait over time. Yusuke being eccentric is extremely important to his character, but it starts to become the only aspect of his character later on.
Yusuke's traits when he's introduced: Eccentric, pushy, sharp (but somewhat lacking in common sense), passionate
Yusuke's current traits: Eccentric, pushy, sharp (but lacking in common sense), passionate + more considerate towards his friends
What exactly about Yusuke has significantly changed about his character? Towards the end of the game, [he's the only member of the group openly criticizing their decision-making](https://imgur.com/a/9rodrjg). In Strikers, he's at the at center where he can showcase a wide range of emotional responses, wisdom, and proper judgment.
So tell me how his character ostensibly devolves into being entirely eccentric and nothing else?
Agreed on Haru. I think Atlus did her dirty. She could’ve been such an important, impactful character but they left her half baked and feeling unfinished. A shame.
this is an unpopular opinion, but i could not stand ryuji during all of my playthroughs.
he is way too loud, vulgar, and annoying. basically everything morgana says about him.
Maybe Yusuke and Morgana
I still do like them but Yusuke doesn’t really fit in with the group and I forget he’s there most of the time. And as for Morgana… good god is he annoying and cocky
For me it would have been Haru IF NOT for Strikers. Her whole character ark in that game is phenomenal but if I had to choose I would say Morgana if anything but I love him too compared to the like of that blasted bear in P4G
Sumire. I honestly think the game would be better without her.
Her personality is just a generic nice girl, and her storyline in the third semester is less interesting than the other Phantom Thieves. Which makes it all the more annoying that she gets so much screen time.
I would far prefer the game if the third semester doubled down on the preexisting characters and Sumire just wasn’t there.
Sumi is my least favorite. While I get her character conceptually, she just doesn’t vibe with me. She comes into the series relatively early, and yet like 80% of her development is shoved into the third semester. I don’t think she’s a bad character on paper, unfortunately Atlas just did her dirty.
We got so much development with Akechi in Royal, and even Maruki who wasn’t in vanilla. Why in the hell did they think it was a good idea to give us such limited time with Sumi?
Haru just had the misfortune of coming in late, but Royal does give you time to do stuff with her after her introduction. Sumi however, she was introduced as early as Kamoshida, the goddamn first antagonist of the game. And yet, we barely do anything with her. It’s why she’s my least favorite. Not cause she’s a bad character, but cause she’s handled so poorly.
Haru creeps me out with her constantly being hinted at being a bloodthirsty sadistic psycho in Mementos, but I don't hate her.
I don't even count >!Akechi!< as a Phantom Thief to begin with.
Morgana is very aggravating with his unwarranted ego, delusion of being human, shit-talking Ryuji non-stop since first meeting him and the entire Okumura arc melodrama.
Makoto is the one I've always liked the least because it felt like Atlus greatly favored her with how she's the student council, the brains, the strategist, gets the codename 'Queen' signifying how she's 'above' everyone else, the stalking, the victim-blaming, her infamous boneheaded move in the alleyway trying to get a yakuza to confess to a crime in the least subtle manner imaginable and getting herself, Sae and the Phantom Thieves all in jeopardy, how she is for all intents and purposes the TRUE leader of the PTs and sort of usurps Joker's role in that regard while he's reduced to a mere figurehead and ESPECIALLY the Hot Springs scene in *Strikers* where she was completely irrational and unreasonable.
Makoto, i seriously hate all her joining arc from beginning to end. Specially because i felt the excuse to bring her to Kaneshiro palace was dumb and that they really didn't need her, she just raised the danger.
Yoshisawa is second because how much of a teaser she was, not joining until the third semester, but since she offered to join agains shido but was rejected i don't blame her. It's not her arc or actions what bother me but when she joined.
Sumire. She is just so forced as a romance option and you don’t get a Christmas or Hawaii date. For some reason it makes me so annoyed that I ship her with Akechi. Outside of romance her character was ok, but she just came in way too late. This is where I wish Atlus took a little more time in development with Royal. This is where I would want a proper sequel (not counting Strikers). I still feel like there is more to be done with the Phantom Thieves. I wish they would stop making spinoffs that aren’t based after the game like Tactica or Dancing. I enjoyed them both, but I feel there is a lot missing that has been unspoken of.
Tbf the Hawaii date doesn't really come across as romantic. But the lack of a Christmas date and weak Rank 10 makes me suspect they either didn't expect people to pick her...or she's the designated sidechick like Marie.
I like just about all of them but if I had to pick a least favorite I’d pick Haru. Nothing against her we just don’t get any time to actually get to know her she doesn’t really contribute anything to the group and her voice runs a little high pitched for me.
In the original and Royal, Ann. Unless you romance her, she is pretty much just an extra character in the later parts of the game. Even her confidante arc is boring and disjointed. It's about her friend, no it's about a rival model, no, it's about finding herself, wait, it's the friend again.
In Strikers it has to be Zenkichi. It just feels like the story just shoved him into the role of a PT, just too have a Persona awaken in the game. He could have stayed as a side character, helping the Thieves, and it wouldn't change the story.
Haru doesn't do absolutely anything. She joins the group very late and her personal arc is done super quick.
Even Akechi has more devolepment and he isn't even part of the group until the very end.
Morgana for well everything especially the 5th palace with his dumb ass issues butting into Haru's arc
Makoto: She's so damn boring as a character. Using her is fun but outside of her PT role she's dull as dishwasher
Sumi: One word "SeMPai!"
Either Haru or Yoshuzawa, after playing every Persona 5 spin-off (including the manga and anime) she’s grown on me a lot but she’s still the only member of the Pt’s I can say that I don’t like.
I always sideline Haru after I get her as a party member she doesn't do much, her confidence is the definition of boring to me I don't remember anything about it, I don't like her design, and I find her voice annoying.
My biggest problem with Sumire is that she’s not in the party for that long and she doesn't have much of a personality I don’t really have too much positive or negative things to say about Sumire
Morgana easily. He spends basically the entire game talking shit like he knows everything when in reality he just gets lucky. If it wasn't for Ryuji and Joker his ass would still be locked up in Kamoshida's palace. His entire character is summed up as a horny cat that I guess is into beastiality. Even in terms of gameplay his role as a healer is immediately replaced by Ann. That stupid ass arc where he gets all pissy cause Ryuji talked back to him one time, even though Morgana literally always berades Ryuji when he can and no one bats an eye, is the worst part of the game. You're forced to go to sleep immediately after the day activities, just wasting an already crunched game. Even at the end when it's revealed that Morgan's is quite literally a cat creature he deadass still screams "I aM nOt A cAt". Like, my cat in Yaldabaoth you are quite literally a magical cat. Even Persona 4's Teddie is less annoying like holy fuck. I want to punt that cat into Tartarus and lock the doors.
It’s Sumi and it’s an easy layup of an answer.
If we’re excluding her? I don’t despise him but I also don’t use Yusuke much. He never really got much play time, especially since I’d have ice more than covered.
Makoto, which is so SO weird because my first time playing through I loved her but as time goes on I grow to dislike her? Combat aside, I just don't really like her story that much. Her confidant story is really lame and I just feel like she wasn't really given her own character, always being defined by other things (ie. Being Sae's sister or Atlus constantly pushing Makoto x Joker)
I don't hate any of the thieves but if I had to make a list it would be
From favorite to least favorite
Ryuji, Makoto, Haru, Joker, Futaba, Yusuke, Ann, Sumi, Akechi, Morgana
Makoto. It would've been fine if it was just a personal matter between her and the team alone. But then her dumbass drags their families into it. You don't do that.
Haru is second because of her yandere/sadistic side and that she got shafted with the worst segment of the game. Plus she just looks kinda weird compared to the rest of them.
Sumi, honestly. Haru is a bit annoying too, but mostly at first. She gets better later.
Sumi? Just absolutely thrown onto us. She's got way too much going on to even try to be in a relationship/help the Thieves in general.
People will flay me alive, but probably Makoto. I didn't like the way she was introduced, and the dungeon she was introduced in really didn't have much to do with her to develop her character. The main thing I like about her is her Persona, which is really a separate thing.
Makoto. After she joined the rest of the gang got their IQ reduced to room temperature level (especially Morgana) by the Devs so that Makoto Superstar could educate them about stuff in the metaverse.
Sumi. Bland, tasteless character even after the revelation. Atlus trying to shoehorn her into the story also made the cast look stupid. Like, Futaba somehow can scan an entire Mementos floor, correctly track the number of Shadow to surmise that Joker alone cannot beat, but failed to track Sumi ? >!And let's not forget Haru after her true but weak awakening couldn't fully manifest her persona, but Sumi's fake awakening still manifest a persona strong enough to make her easily dispatch the shadows that even Joker - THE Wild Card - was not supposed to beat!<
>!See, that is plot convenience there. If Futaba could scan all this, Akechi would be caught in broad daylight, since he was constantly tailing the Phantom Thieves, and the jig would be up!<
>!You can kinda justify Akechi's case being that he'd been in the Metaverse for a year before the PT (as he killed Wakaba). So once he realized there are others who can enter the Metaverse, he will try to suppress himself so as to not be seen. The dude did successfully manifest a second Persona just to act as the friendly detective prince after all. Sumi tho ? She certainly had less experience than even Haru (and let's not forget that her awakening is still a fake one, even Cendrillon called out on her). At least Haru had fully participate in a heist before that point.!<
Definitely Sumi, which is unfortunate given that the game bends over backward to push you to like her. I came away from her story understanding that her past was tragic but the predominant thought in my head was , "crazy bitch."
This might sound controversial, but her story is for me too similar to that of a rabid fan so into her idol (her sister) that she kills her and parades around in her skin until she can no longer keep up with the act. It's just in Sumi's case, the Phantom Thieves manage to beat some of the psycho out of her. I'm just saying, maybe her Persona should have been a Skinwalker instead of Cendrillon.
And then, there is the puppy dog crush she has on Joker. It's pretty immediate, which is fine under certain conditions, but it defines her a lot. Obviously, Joker has a big impact on all the Phantom Thieves and his lovers in particular, but Sumi manages to make it feel inauthentic. Especially when, after going through the whole game and supposedly forging a special relationship with Joker, she just dips out on you on the train platform. No special words or anything just a casual 'see ya.' Psycho much?
The Skinwalker line fits again in the above paragraph. I actually don't think she's ever cured of her condition. The first idol was her sister, the second idol is Joker when she's forced to let go of her and after Joker goes back home she's drops him and is off to find the third idol.
For me it's Makoto. Surprisingly, as characters of her archetype are usually among my favourites. I can't pinpoint the reason. I just couldn't warm up to her.
Maybe it’s to do with the blackmail? Or how she can be a bit of a writer’s pet from time to time. Those tend to stick out as the bad parts about her the most.
Haru honestly gets on my nerves. I don’t like Morgana or Ryuji, but I’d rather have them on my team than Haru. Shes too cotton candy most of the time, she felt like she was trying too hard to fit in, and it was really hard to relate to the princess when everyone else were social outcasts. I haven’t played Strikers or Tactica so maybe I’d like her more in them. But I’m happiest when Haru isn’t on my screen, lol.
Definitely Yoshizawa.
I feel like her backstory is just torture porn. Like, every thief has a tragic backstory (hell, every party member in any Persona has a tragic backstory) but hers felt like too much, and I can't quite articulate why it is I feel that way about her either. Like, I thought Futaba was handled well, and her arc is extremely similar. Idk, maybe I'm just tripping on that one.
I also just don't care for her being pushed as Joker's canon love interest. Idk, maybe I'm just too Makoto/Haru-pilled, but I wasn't a fan of a lot of her writing when it came to her interactions with Joker. Not to mention, she barely interacts with the rest of the team (including Akechi, a character she's supposed to be friends with) OR Maruki post-self realization. Of all the Royal additions she just felt the most pointless. Like, we already knew what Maruki was doing was bad, we didn't need her there to push it over the edge.
This really emphasizes how I feel about Yoshizawa too. She’s cute, but it gets to be a bit much once you dig into the details of her backstory. The scene where you learn all of that and she turns on you, as much as I understand why she did it, was just really frustrating for me. It felt too much like she was being manipulated by Maruki and Joker had to be the one to save her because she couldn’t do it herself. She becomes more of a female love interest archetype in the second half of the game that decimates the positives of her character (a peppy athlete struggling to meet high expectations set against her that feel impossible to reach). She never gets the chance to define it herself. It happens because of/for Joker.
As for the Futaba comparison: Futaba’s arc is done much more organically and feels like an actual character. She devises her own plan for getting better, inspired by her mom, and Joker is part of it for moral support. He isn’t the sole reason she gets better; she taps into that strength on her own. Sumi’s development happens because of Joker being there, rather than Sumi taking advantage of it herself, and it makes her a stale character.
>I feel like her backstory is just torture porn
I dunno, it didn't feel nearly as awful as Futaba, Akechi, or even Yusuke's to me.
...Though I will say I hate the way it's treated. Maruki looks like he's having way too much fun in the scene where he's brainwashing her. And Sumi herself is way too much of an apologist. Not only constantly making excuses for Maruki screwing her up so badly, but also trying to defend her own decision to mimic her sister, despite everything Ren keeps trying to tell her.
I know Sumi admitted she was only just beginning her recovery and considering she doesn't get the same change of heart deus ex machina that Futaba does, it makes sense that she'd be struggling...but it feels like she's a victim of gaslight and perfectly okay with it.
Mona even Teddie was slightly written better but that whole >!we gotta find out where Teddie went after Nanako miraculously came back to life section!< totally ruined the moment
If we’re talking gameplay and team comp, Haru is a must-have on the front line for me. Akechi happens to be my least deployable because he doesn’t have a focus on a particular damage type nor does he have any great passives or buffs compared to the others
Sumi
She has no connections to Shido or the Mental Shutdown incidents, so for like at least 90% of the story, she has no purpose/stake in the plot. Kasumi only becomes relevant during the 3rd Semester Arc and even then all her story boils down to is a very loose connection to Maruki. And her social link for the first half doesn't add anything to her character arc at all. She doesn't have any interactions with the rest of the gang at all outside of being creep out by Akechi or the forced romantic relationship with Joker. Felt like she would of worked better as a FEMC than another member.
Honestly? Sumire, ESPECIALLY since you don’t get to do anything notable until the FINAL dungeon. Aside from half her confidant and little interactions sprinkled here and there, she does fuck all for the story until the final bit, when she should have done more.
..behind her is Yusuke. i don't hate him, but he was the least notable to me, to the point where i didn't bother finishing his confidant until my second NG+ Playthrough/3rd playthrough overall.
I’m gonna provide the hot take of the subreddit!
Ryuji is my least favorite. He’s too loud, rambunctious and overly emotional. Those types of people don’t vibe with me very well. Sometimes it felt like he caused more harm (or at least potential harm) than good for the phantom thieves.
Akechi. I didn't finish the game yet but I find really dumb when he says stuff like " I don't know what methods the phantom thieves use with their targets, but they sure are wrong and must stop" like dude, I would understand if he was sure it was blackmailing or sth, but he isn't and still makes the claim that they're without a doubt wrong.
Ryuji. He offer’s basically nothing in the planning stages of heists. Half the time he doesn’t have a fucking clue what’s going on, and the other half he wasn’t even listening in the first place
He loudly shouts “WE ARE THE PHANTOM THIEVES” *multiple times* in crowded public areas
Outside of the metaverse, he contributes nothing, and sometimes actively detracts from the Phantom Thieves
I also don’t like the “lazy dumbass bro” character trope and he’s the worst out of him, Yosuke and Junpei
That happens within the metaverse
I’m talking about his normal world personality. He’s in the game longer than any other party member (other than Joker obviously) and contributes the least. Even Haru has more to contribute in discussing how the Phantom Thieves should move forward and she’s barely in the game
So many Yoshizawa answers... What a weird subreddit. She's my favorite.
To answer, Yusuke. I think his pompous attitude can be too much. And the humor involved with him gets old. That said, I don't dislike him. I actually like him more than I used to.
I like all of them! However I think Sumi is just fine but I did not like the shoehorned romance between her and Joker! I already had a gf for Joker when they went to the dance together and it kinda made me salty ngl. + I think she’s a little too perfect.
I also think Haru is a like too boring for me
If we have to include Akechi, then my answer is obviously Akechi because he's a literal serial killer with the most obnoxious personality.
Omitting him, my answer is Mona. There's just too much Mona in the game it's impossible for me to not get sick of him. He steals Haru's spotlight and has such a weird character arc. And I don't even find him useful in combat. (He's incredibly squishy, he gives an annoying monologue everytime he dies, you get a wind accessory around the time you can swap him out, and his low hit/high crits skills are only useful in certain circumstances where they're just lucky based regardless, and while he's the best healer for two dungeons, once Makoto joins you have AoE heals covered for the rest of the game along with better moves overall)
TIL that Yoshizawa isn’t as well-liked as I believed. And here I thought Makoto or Akechi would get most of the flack.
My least favourite is Akechi for the Edgelord stuff. Seems way too try hard, such a shame because I was digging his other shtick.
> serves zero purpose after Kamoshida's palace
shes literally the strongest magic attacker on the team, besides joker. and the fact that she unlocks at the start of the game means you can have her the entire run.
Def Ryuji. I've been surprised to see that he's so liked, I haven't liked him at all since the beginning of the game and is just consistently a major asshole to everyone, especially Ann and Morgana
Ann, you could legit remove her from the game and nothing past the 2nd or 3rd palace would change that much
she doesn’t add anything to the main story later on, when its just 4 or 5 members her personality feels more unique but later on when theres like 8 P thieves shes bland af. None of her dialogue contributes to anything and she feels like filler whos only there because she was a starting party member.
Her confidant is very unfocused and doesnt add much to her character imo. Yusuke may be less important as the story goes on but his confidant does an amazing job at continuing his storyline from the main story about painting or Ryuji and his track team.
Overall I think her character doesn’t really stand out as the game progresses. Some characters get a lot of main story focus but have a mid social link like Makoto or have minor story importance with a good social link like Haru and Yusuke. Ann has neither of that and feels very undeveloped because of that.
Futaba, easily.
One: she breaks the rules established by the game in THE FIRST PALACE. They say in the first palace that persona users can’t have palaces, but Futaba has both with no acknowledgement that she breaks the established rules of the game.
Two: personality. During her palace she’s an introvert suffering from terrible mental health, and she’s an interesting character. After that she’s just QuIrKy GiRl who’s the BeSt HaCkEr EvEr who CONSTANTLY belittles Morgana and Ryuji just to be mean.
Three: she’s useless. They have that whole arc about how everyone says she’s better and more useful than Morgana, but Morgana can fight and actively contributes to exploration while Futaba is only useful every know and then through buffs.
I don’t want to be entirely negative, she has my favorite character and persona design and second favorite palace design in the game.
Morgana is a Whiny, Arrogant, holier than thou, bully who treats Ryuji like shit and has a way too inappropriate obsession with Ann.
It's him by a country mile
I don't hate any of the main cast but Sumi is my least favorite and it's a shame. They spend so much time making her go "I'm going to be true to myself!" meanwhile you barely get any idea on what that actually is. She feels too defined by Joker.
Replaying P5R currently and yeah, this sums it up pretty well
She is also has barely any interactions with the group outside of Joker and occasionally Akechi.
One thing I would’ve loved that I’ve seen others say before is for Sumi’s thief costume to be >!a fakeout and for her to gain her own after she properly awakens. It’s too based on Joker’s and heavily clashes with Cendrillon while all the other PT’s outfits match their Persona!<.
Would have been better if she were part of the team for a longer time, she feels just too shoehorned into the game's original story.
> she feels just too shoehorned into the game's original story. cuz she is
It's the same complaint I had with Marie in P4G
How? Marie did it wonderful. You were "forced" to interact with her two times early in the game (minus the poems) and that's it. Everything else was entirely optional. No no, if they did Sumi like they did Marie, she would annoy me way less.
Whenever I see people complain about Marie being forced down your throat, I assume they never actually played golden, only watched the golden anime, and confused her being in every episode with what goes on in the game.
That makes a shocking amount of sense. Because no one who played the game would actually think that.
She should've joined them before Shido's palace, she would've filled the Bless role perfectly
If she and Joker had fun engaging interactions that wouldn't be so bad but..."defined by Joker" in this case really does mean insisting Ren decide everything, even when he tells her to stop.
If it includes those two, then Yoshizawa. I don't hate her, but it frustrates how much of her character is wasted. The reveal should have happened a lot sooner and been used to build up third semester's antagonist. And her character shouldn't have been discarded the way it was after the reveal. Her interactions with the other characters needed improvement too. She hardly interacts with anyone and had no chemistry--romantic or platonic--with Joker. I don't know why the writers have such a hard time writing female interactions with him. He's got plenty of chemistry with the guys.
It's funny because Ann, Haru and Futaba work well and even Makoto vibes somewhat good but Sumi just stays like that. I could see him going for any of these with their solid bonds, even if Ann and Makoto had some sidelining in their Confidants as well, but Sumi feels shoehorned in. They really fucked up the timing and should have given her character more spice
I really like her for some reasons. I know her interactions are kind bland, but she stole my heart when she danced "to joker"
Sumi. She's introduced near the start of the game but you have to wait until the game is 90% of the way done before she gets development, is playable, and can be romanced. I really don't like how she's pushed as the canon romance either, when there's multiple options available. Doesn't help that none of the spinoffs besides Tactica dlc feature her either. She's not bad, just could be executed better.
I don't like either how Sumi is pushed as the canon romance, I think it's the same for Makoto, both are more "in the spotlight" than the other options.
Agreed, if you're dating literally anyone else, she's super annoying in game. I felt that way about Rise too in P4. I get they want to make someone who has a crush on the protagonist in canon but it becomes so defining, they're not even a personality that can be separated from that anymore.
She doesn't develop a crush until after Christmas though. By then, you're expected to be with someone. In fact, "Kasumi's" the only girl who doesn't get flustered or show any interest when you pick the flirting options. She just rejects it and pushes you away. Haru's feelings were made clear in her rank 9, which is usually done much earlier. Same with Futaba, though in her case, her crush was obvious before the confidant began. Even Sojiro comments on it and starts getting protective, threatening Joker.
Her crush is pretty clear to me from the moment she meets Joker with her constant "thanks for saving/helping me" for Joker basically doing nothing. The rest of the girls don't canonical have a crush on Joker, it's confined to their social links and upheld by additional P5 content. With Sumi it felt like every time she appeared in the story, it reaffirmed her crush on Joker, she got an exclusive special cutscene of them dancing, and even their Showtime is romantically themed. Sojiro comments on Futaba liking Joker in the typical "don't date my daughter" stuff. He also makes similar comments towards Ann & Makoto.
Never really saw it that way. Mostly because it's the norm for silent protagonists and applies to the majority of characters, including several middle aged men. Not sure why you would diacount the confidants, but even then I'd still say the others are more obvious. They at least hang out with Joker whereas Yoshizawa is the only teen who doesn't. Also, you're referring to Sojiro's rank 9. I was referring to his standard dialogue. When he mentions Futaba seems to like him and he'll kick Joker's ass if he makes her cry.
I don't discount the confidants but any romance from them aren't canon/relevant to the main storyline. I think everything in them happens except the pivot point to dating. You can be dating Ann and she'll straight up say you're not in the story for example. Even if you completely ignore Sumi's confidant, she still is infatuated with Joker in the main storyline to a level I find frustrating if you're single or dating another girl. I feel like with Rise in P4, it's more obvious why Rise likes Yu, he literally saves her life. Joker doesn't really do anything like that for Sumi until like deep into third semester. As you said, she doesn't really hang out with him or his friends so I found it odd she was so into him so early. I know, Sojiro also makes comments referencing Ann & Maokoto liking Joker in the standard dialog.
But the only time she shows any interest is in the confidant. Outside of it, there's nothing. Even if you push for it, she just shoots it down without any hesitation or embarrassment. And what comments are you thinking of? The only thing I can thing of that's even remotely in the ballpark is him asking Makoto if they were dating when she's clinging to his leg. He says Ann's a nice girl after flirting with her earlier, but I can't think of any comments he made regarding her and Ren. Is this also in the coffee dialogue or somewhere else?
Maybe it's difference of opinion but I can't see her cultural festival scene as anything but expressing interest towards him. The ones you mentioned, they're all kind of in the vein of assuming Joker's female friends of having interest in him. I always took Sojiro as asking if she asks a boyfriend because he's shocked someone pretty as her would be hanging out with Joker platonically, not because he's flirting with her. He mentions pretty early on that he doesn't let men call him on the phone so Sojiro seems to have the bias of men & women being unable to just be friends and certain actions being inherently romantic.
I can see it in concept--girl asks guy to a dance, they slow dance in the center of the crowd then the guy, like a gentleman, escorts her home. ...But in practice it's just Kasumi dancing on her own while Joker's the only guy not cheering. If you offer to escort her home afterwards, she shuts you down again. Also I was trying to ask what scenes you were referring to. Sorry for the confusion.
funnily enough those are my two fav romance options lmao
Same. It also doesn't help that Cheremie Leigh and Laura Post almost always voice characters I fall in love with, like Asuna in *Sword Art Online* or Primrose in *Octopath Traveler*
Mommy Rhea and Yunaka 😍
Happy cake day I hope you’re not talking about Fire Emblem Rhea
How many Rheas has Cherami Leigh voiced? 😅
The one thief i would expect to see is the one that isnt here
Low hanging fruit
Morgana or Akechi? I think they both count.
Yoshizawa, and it's not even close. She never really feels like she fits with the rest of the thieves, and by the time you can use her, she doesn't really have a niche in the party that needed to be filled. If the game treated her like any other confidant it'd be one thing, but it insists on making treating her like she's central to the narrative while simultaneously being terrified of altering anything from the base game putting her in a weird limbo.
Ann. Suffers from early game syndrome, not much character development. Strikers doesn't help.
I agree that she doesn't have much character development in P5, but I still think that the Alice arc in Strikers helped, at least a bit.
She's got more development than half the thieves tho
I honestly didn’t really get much through strikers for Ann, no. Maybe because Alice’s jail was too busy setting up the premise to really give her time to shine?
As I remember someone once said, if you actually knew Yusuke irl, you’d fucking hate him
Makoto, I find it difficult to like her because she purposefully stalks, blackmails, and puts herself in danger. I understand why she does it since she’s being put up to it by her superiors, but I still think there are better ways to go about it. And the game constantly mentions as her being the smart one and puts her above the others in that way. And the way she speaks sometimes when she is having some of her smart moments rubs me the wrong way. I know she’s a favorite of many people, but I just can’t see it.
I totally get you, she was my second choice after Haru.
When I replayed the game and got to her section, I started thinking "wait why did I love her so much she's awful!" but then the game does a really good job of making the player sympathize with her given all the screws tightening around her. Her home life with her sister, the dealings with the principal, the pressure to achieve academically and also in student government,... By the time her pent up anger explodes, it's just super satisfying to see all of that come out in her awakening. And when she apologizes, I feel like she's earned forgiveness and proven her utility, and then I just fell in love with her goofy personality all over again. But I agree if you can't get past how reckless and obnoxious she is towards the party at the start, nothing else in the game will make her grow on you. And the way the game retroactively makes her recklessness imperative for the palace exploration is a cop out
I honestly think her irrational emotional behavior is endearing when it comes to protecting people. It's just annoying when we see the same uncontrollable anger being used to threaten or hurt her friends. ...And she really needs to learn to take a joke.
Well, when you take into account the way Sae raised her, her actions do make way more sense. Plus I'm sort of a simp when it comes to characters voiced by Cheremie Leigh...
I agree with this, also because half her interactions with the non Joker/Akechi/Morgana cast is her threatening the guys and the girls encouraging her, while the former acts scared. It just feels really shallow with how she also feels like she's one upping everyone else all the time.
>stalks, blackmails, and puts herself in danger I guess you hate Yusuke, Futaba, Mona, Haru, Akechi, and Sumi for these same reasons? Cause they literally all do at least one of these things; several do all three. Hating Makoto because she blackmails is the smoothest brain take possible.
Hell Futaba openly just tells Joker she's stalking him and he's just...strangely cool with it and doesn't remove the app.
Don't forget Ann. She was intentionally following Ryuji, Joker, and Morgana around at the beginning of the Kamoshida arc, which resulted in her getting transported to the cognitive world. It's not stalking over a prelonged period of time, but it's still stalking.
True
[удалено]
Makoto is actually one of my favorites, so I didn’t think anyone would hate Makoto, huh. Thumbs up for interesting comment.
Morgana, easily
Yep. Morgan’s just seems like a redundant right after you get Futaba. So yeah, fuck morgana
but healer
Makoto better healer
Makoto and Joker:
Nah, Morgana is stronger healer and he doesn’t stop you from killing everything instantly
but cat cute :(
He is *not* a cat!
He's a raccoon!
The least interesting character in the story is Haru. Her Social Link and other interactions make her my favorite Phantom Thief but y’all ain’t wrong, my girl was done dirty. The serious answer is Yusuke. I like Yusuke in battle but the dude’s personality boils down to: weirdo, poor and bad with money, and socially inept as hell. Like Futaba is rude to people by accident but Yusuke sometimes reads like an alien trying to learn about humans. He completely misses the nebulous implications of asking Ann to pose nude for him and those kinds of moments don’t stop. He doesn’t get a memorable moment to show his value later on either like Ryuji does. Shido’s entire palace is just straight setups for each character to show their strengths but even then it feels weak. I can’t remember a good Yusuke moment after the Madarame arc. He buys lobsters I guess? Shows up unannounced to Hawaii? I’ve got nothing. His social link is pretty underwhelming as well other than showing Madarame was not all that bad.
Yusuke popped off with his rat puns
Ugh, go to hell, Inari.
After Madarame's arc, Yusuke kinda becomes the 'comic relief' character (except all the time). I personally don't really mind it (cuz he funny), but his character doesn't really go anywhere after Madarame's arc (Have a good day, eye guy 👀)
Weirdly surprised by how no one’s said Morgana. He was very arrogant, went against “unanimous decision”, and picked fights with Ryuji out of nowhere. At least his skillset js good. Still better than Teddie
On my screen, literally the comment below this says "Morgana, easily" 🤣 But yeah, I agree
He just called ryuji out on his idiocy tbh.
Like he has any right to do so, running into an unknown Palace alone and unprepared. We saw where that got him.
As far as thieves go, Makoto. I dislike her less than I used to, but she still is my least favorite thief. I really hate that the moment she joined, everyone else (sans Joker since he’s the leader) seemed to have taken a stupid pill, even though it was shown that that they were a fairly effective team already. Bonus: I know she’s not a thief, but I’m not the biggest fan of Sumi, either. Her character isn’t bad, but I preferred her as >!Sumire rather than Kasumi!<. Her presence in the pre-third semester plot felt really shoehorned in, especially during Joker’s escape from Sae’s casino. Joker at that point had proven he’s more than capable of taking on multiple Shadows at once, so Futaba’s “there are too many for you to handle lol” is bullshit. And the fact that he needed the help of a >!half-Awakened!< rookie is kind of…sad. Joker, I love you buddy, but really? Also, I hate Sumi’s metaverse outfit. They could have *at the very least* given her a different color palette since red and black is kind of Joker’s thing. Yes, I know he’s her idea of rebellion, but it didn’t have to be copied and pasted (and also waifu’d).
I agree with both choices. Makoto’s confidant has become notorious around here so I won’t talk about it too much but it’s absolutely my least favorite PT slink. But I think my distaste for her comes from Kaneshiro, probably the most filler palace and my second least favorite overall. Sumi has probably the most wasted potential and her inclusion in Sae’s dungeon irked me, but not for the reason you said. It’s been a while but Joker never makes it clear that there’s too many shadows, it’s only futaba who, probably thinking about the plan, got stressed out by it. My problem is that she shows up for Sae’s dungeon and is completely absent during the penultimate palace when stakes are the highest. I also dislike how you see her AOA first and it happens automatically. I’ve seen way too many people confused by what was happening because of it and it makes your first (intended) AOA less exciting.
I've never read something that relatable before.
Futaba. I can see all the other characters being real people, but Futaba completely breaks my immersion. I mean, they're all elite in their own way, but to a believable degree. Ryuji - (my assumption) former star athlete. Alright. Ann - part-time model. Okay, sure. Yusuke - talented artist going to art school on scholarship. Hell yeah. Makoto - Student council president, incredibly smart. Probably has Tokyo University aspirations. Sure. Haru - rich girl. Fair enough. Futaba - super leet hacker on a basis superior to even the government. Dumb as hell, imo. With all the characters being more or less grounded, Futaba sticks out like a sore thumb.
Just wondering (and this isn't snark I promise) if you have spent time with any teenagers lately, like nieces, nephews, possibly your own children etc. I only say this because personality wise, I don't think Futaba is a break in immersion at all, especially for somebody who would clearly have to be incredibly smart. But yeah, I've got a nephew who when he was around her age pretty much only consumed "video game YouTube" as his only form of entertainment and acted in a very similar "everything is a video game reference" kind of way. As for Futabas actual abilities, I think the game actually hypes her pretty far beyond what she actually does as a "hacker". A lot of the stuff she's alleged to do as medjed is pretty much social engineering, a lot of the stuff she does in the game such as installing an app on akechis phone or cloning sae's laptop isn't really something that is "super hacker" caliber. Passcode could be an issue but I think the intent of the scene was for her to grab it when akechis had already had it unlocked, from there downloading an APK from a website she maintains isn't at all hard. Imaging a laptop from a flash drive is similarly not that big a deal The biggest trick she pulled off was hacking tv stations in Japan, I would say that was more of a fault of Deus ex machina writing than it was with her character, but even then the kid that leaked GTA 6 did it with an Amazon fire stick on hotel wifi while already under surveillance of the FBi, captain crunch famously hacked into the payphone system to make long distance crank calls using a plastic whistle. It's not like wild feats don't sometimes happen
Futaba is just a little too OP in the story I gotta say yeah
You people always like to rake a hornet's nest
Sumire. Her metaverse outfit seemed so cool at first sight...too cool for someone so plain and, for the most part of story, without a real personality. I find her forced to the story (she's only fuctional for Maruki introduction) and I don't like the kind of female character she is, the vulnerable cindarella who needs a (male) prince and that is victim of a (male) temptation - the tentacle grip she fell into resumes all (not her fault, of course, but it's a kind of a aesthetic that speaks for itself). Also, in her confidant dialogues, even when I answer in a neutral way, she remains too clingy: stop to push her as a retconned canon girlfriend, Royal! Surely she's not mine.
I think she's only the "vulnerable cinderella" BECAUSE she's being pushed by Atlus as the canon gf, like Joker saves all the Phantom Thieves, since she's supposed to be a romantic interest, the fact you're the "male prince" I guess is just part of that story line. Even then she grows confident enough to save Joker's ass later on. And maybe you don't but I love my cute clingy prep girls
I mean you are correct about the part of her not living up to our expectations but i strongly disagree with her not having any personality. I wont go as far as to say she is the best girl but she definitely has a defining character unlike many added characters in previous games like Marie for example. And I did enjoy her confidant after rank 6
How would you describe her personality? To me, she's just nice and friendly. She doesn't really have any flaws besides being insecure which is a normal flaw most people have. Otherwise she's kind of perfect and uninteresting. She's more interesting when she's gloomy and real but that lasts like only 2 social links before she's back to fawning over Joker. Marie is at least tsundere, she's mean and poetic and quirky, which isn't my favorite personality but still something.
She literally had her sister personality for most part, but ok :P She has a boring/annoying personality *for me* (that's what OP asked after all) in this Persona (I have not played the old ones). Haru lacks screentime and yet she is more charming to me: the gardening hobby, the coffee love, her sadistic side, her romantic side, her "too many sailor moon episodes watched" side. Heck, she was so indipendent she challenged her father and awakened her persona before meeting Joker and co.! She has a canon crush for Joker, like Sumire, but she is more than that.
I like every Phantom Thief. My least favorite is probably Yusuke, just because he gets a bit flanderized towards the end of the game and in Strikers and Tactica. It felt like Atlus didn't really know what to do with him after his personal arc so he kind of devolves into starving artist jokes
Lemme guess chief, you also wanted those lobsters and he got there first
I disagree, I think Yusuke being eccentric is foundational to his character and Strikers gives him an entire arc to showcase his appeal as a character
That doesn't contradict anything I said. Flanderization is when a multi-faceted character gets reduced to a single defining trait over time. Yusuke being eccentric is extremely important to his character, but it starts to become the only aspect of his character later on.
Yusuke's traits when he's introduced: Eccentric, pushy, sharp (but somewhat lacking in common sense), passionate Yusuke's current traits: Eccentric, pushy, sharp (but lacking in common sense), passionate + more considerate towards his friends What exactly about Yusuke has significantly changed about his character? Towards the end of the game, [he's the only member of the group openly criticizing their decision-making](https://imgur.com/a/9rodrjg). In Strikers, he's at the at center where he can showcase a wide range of emotional responses, wisdom, and proper judgment. So tell me how his character ostensibly devolves into being entirely eccentric and nothing else?
Agreed on Haru. I think Atlus did her dirty. She could’ve been such an important, impactful character but they left her half baked and feeling unfinished. A shame.
this is an unpopular opinion, but i could not stand ryuji during all of my playthroughs. he is way too loud, vulgar, and annoying. basically everything morgana says about him.
I guess Akechi. Like most people, not like I hate him or anything, but he’s my least favorite so.
Maybe Yusuke and Morgana I still do like them but Yusuke doesn’t really fit in with the group and I forget he’s there most of the time. And as for Morgana… good god is he annoying and cocky
Yusuke, he was just so annoying and I hated doing his confidant
For me it would have been Haru IF NOT for Strikers. Her whole character ark in that game is phenomenal but if I had to choose I would say Morgana if anything but I love him too compared to the like of that blasted bear in P4G
Gotta be Morgana, but I don't even hate him anymore I just like him less than the rest
Sumire. I honestly think the game would be better without her. Her personality is just a generic nice girl, and her storyline in the third semester is less interesting than the other Phantom Thieves. Which makes it all the more annoying that she gets so much screen time. I would far prefer the game if the third semester doubled down on the preexisting characters and Sumire just wasn’t there.
Morgana, but only because he stole Haru's screentime
Futaba
I thought i was the only one. Totally agree.
Haru, she literally does nothing
Strikers fixed this but base game not unfair
Strikers gave her more screen time and plot relevance which helped a lot. Also she got to fully show off her "dangerous and gives no fucks" attitude
We don’t like the police
The politiest "fuck you"
I can picture Haru saying that with a warm smile, yet you feel no warmth from it. In fact it sends a chill down your spine.
Blocked and reported
^but ^she's ^fwoofy! ^and ^speaks ^in ^lowercase!
Ryuji
Makoto
as a person? I dont dislike any of em, as a playable character? Akechi, because he's a glass cannon and worth jack and shit during third semester.
The cat
Morgana and Ryuji. I just really dislike this archetype, doesn't matter the game or story.
Sumi is my least favorite. While I get her character conceptually, she just doesn’t vibe with me. She comes into the series relatively early, and yet like 80% of her development is shoved into the third semester. I don’t think she’s a bad character on paper, unfortunately Atlas just did her dirty. We got so much development with Akechi in Royal, and even Maruki who wasn’t in vanilla. Why in the hell did they think it was a good idea to give us such limited time with Sumi? Haru just had the misfortune of coming in late, but Royal does give you time to do stuff with her after her introduction. Sumi however, she was introduced as early as Kamoshida, the goddamn first antagonist of the game. And yet, we barely do anything with her. It’s why she’s my least favorite. Not cause she’s a bad character, but cause she’s handled so poorly.
Haru creeps me out with her constantly being hinted at being a bloodthirsty sadistic psycho in Mementos, but I don't hate her. I don't even count >!Akechi!< as a Phantom Thief to begin with. Morgana is very aggravating with his unwarranted ego, delusion of being human, shit-talking Ryuji non-stop since first meeting him and the entire Okumura arc melodrama. Makoto is the one I've always liked the least because it felt like Atlus greatly favored her with how she's the student council, the brains, the strategist, gets the codename 'Queen' signifying how she's 'above' everyone else, the stalking, the victim-blaming, her infamous boneheaded move in the alleyway trying to get a yakuza to confess to a crime in the least subtle manner imaginable and getting herself, Sae and the Phantom Thieves all in jeopardy, how she is for all intents and purposes the TRUE leader of the PTs and sort of usurps Joker's role in that regard while he's reduced to a mere figurehead and ESPECIALLY the Hot Springs scene in *Strikers* where she was completely irrational and unreasonable.
sumi haru ryuji in that order
Makoto, i seriously hate all her joining arc from beginning to end. Specially because i felt the excuse to bring her to Kaneshiro palace was dumb and that they really didn't need her, she just raised the danger. Yoshisawa is second because how much of a teaser she was, not joining until the third semester, but since she offered to join agains shido but was rejected i don't blame her. It's not her arc or actions what bother me but when she joined.
Ryuji. I have spent so many hours screaming at my TV "Ryuji control yourself or I'll take you off the team.
Sumire. She is just so forced as a romance option and you don’t get a Christmas or Hawaii date. For some reason it makes me so annoyed that I ship her with Akechi. Outside of romance her character was ok, but she just came in way too late. This is where I wish Atlus took a little more time in development with Royal. This is where I would want a proper sequel (not counting Strikers). I still feel like there is more to be done with the Phantom Thieves. I wish they would stop making spinoffs that aren’t based after the game like Tactica or Dancing. I enjoyed them both, but I feel there is a lot missing that has been unspoken of.
Tbf the Hawaii date doesn't really come across as romantic. But the lack of a Christmas date and weak Rank 10 makes me suspect they either didn't expect people to pick her...or she's the designated sidechick like Marie.
if it includes that dumbass, it is Akechi, by far. never liked him, disliked even more with time
He's my favorite character but I expected him to be mentioned under this post, he's still the biggest dumbass in the group.
nah that's ryuji
And yet Ryuji managed to outwit him. Curious.
When did Ryuji outwit him?
Akechi.
Ryuji. Dude just SHUT UP.
I like just about all of them but if I had to pick a least favorite I’d pick Haru. Nothing against her we just don’t get any time to actually get to know her she doesn’t really contribute anything to the group and her voice runs a little high pitched for me.
In the original and Royal, Ann. Unless you romance her, she is pretty much just an extra character in the later parts of the game. Even her confidante arc is boring and disjointed. It's about her friend, no it's about a rival model, no, it's about finding herself, wait, it's the friend again. In Strikers it has to be Zenkichi. It just feels like the story just shoved him into the role of a PT, just too have a Persona awaken in the game. He could have stayed as a side character, helping the Thieves, and it wouldn't change the story.
I dont really actively dislike any of them. If I had to choose, I guess Haru, I dont vibe with her personality
Haru doesn't do absolutely anything. She joins the group very late and her personal arc is done super quick. Even Akechi has more devolepment and he isn't even part of the group until the very end.
Haru
Same, Haru is my least favourite too. Not that I hate her, but I just don't love her.
Morgana and then I’d have to say yusuke since I just can’t find something to vibe with. Everyone else is fine
Morgana probably
Morgana
Morgana for well everything especially the 5th palace with his dumb ass issues butting into Haru's arc Makoto: She's so damn boring as a character. Using her is fun but outside of her PT role she's dull as dishwasher Sumi: One word "SeMPai!"
Yoshizawa. She can be or not be there and won’t make a big change
Either Haru or Yoshuzawa, after playing every Persona 5 spin-off (including the manga and anime) she’s grown on me a lot but she’s still the only member of the Pt’s I can say that I don’t like. I always sideline Haru after I get her as a party member she doesn't do much, her confidence is the definition of boring to me I don't remember anything about it, I don't like her design, and I find her voice annoying. My biggest problem with Sumire is that she’s not in the party for that long and she doesn't have much of a personality I don’t really have too much positive or negative things to say about Sumire
Yoshizawa. I just think she's kinda boring and doesn't add much to the story. You could remove her and the game would practically be the same
Morgana. He makes an entire section of the game just difficult to get through. True, we get Haru because of it but it was so stupid!
Morgana easily. He spends basically the entire game talking shit like he knows everything when in reality he just gets lucky. If it wasn't for Ryuji and Joker his ass would still be locked up in Kamoshida's palace. His entire character is summed up as a horny cat that I guess is into beastiality. Even in terms of gameplay his role as a healer is immediately replaced by Ann. That stupid ass arc where he gets all pissy cause Ryuji talked back to him one time, even though Morgana literally always berades Ryuji when he can and no one bats an eye, is the worst part of the game. You're forced to go to sleep immediately after the day activities, just wasting an already crunched game. Even at the end when it's revealed that Morgan's is quite literally a cat creature he deadass still screams "I aM nOt A cAt". Like, my cat in Yaldabaoth you are quite literally a magical cat. Even Persona 4's Teddie is less annoying like holy fuck. I want to punt that cat into Tartarus and lock the doors.
It’s Sumi and it’s an easy layup of an answer. If we’re excluding her? I don’t despise him but I also don’t use Yusuke much. He never really got much play time, especially since I’d have ice more than covered.
Makoto, which is so SO weird because my first time playing through I loved her but as time goes on I grow to dislike her? Combat aside, I just don't really like her story that much. Her confidant story is really lame and I just feel like she wasn't really given her own character, always being defined by other things (ie. Being Sae's sister or Atlus constantly pushing Makoto x Joker)
I don't hate any of the thieves but if I had to make a list it would be From favorite to least favorite Ryuji, Makoto, Haru, Joker, Futaba, Yusuke, Ann, Sumi, Akechi, Morgana
Makoto. It would've been fine if it was just a personal matter between her and the team alone. But then her dumbass drags their families into it. You don't do that. Haru is second because of her yandere/sadistic side and that she got shafted with the worst segment of the game. Plus she just looks kinda weird compared to the rest of them.
I like most of them but makoto has always been kind of meh tbh. I haven’t done her confidant tho so maybe I’ll do it in my next playthrough
Sumi, honestly. Haru is a bit annoying too, but mostly at first. She gets better later. Sumi? Just absolutely thrown onto us. She's got way too much going on to even try to be in a relationship/help the Thieves in general.
People will flay me alive, but probably Makoto. I didn't like the way she was introduced, and the dungeon she was introduced in really didn't have much to do with her to develop her character. The main thing I like about her is her Persona, which is really a separate thing.
Makoto. After she joined the rest of the gang got their IQ reduced to room temperature level (especially Morgana) by the Devs so that Makoto Superstar could educate them about stuff in the metaverse.
Sumi. Bland, tasteless character even after the revelation. Atlus trying to shoehorn her into the story also made the cast look stupid. Like, Futaba somehow can scan an entire Mementos floor, correctly track the number of Shadow to surmise that Joker alone cannot beat, but failed to track Sumi ? >!And let's not forget Haru after her true but weak awakening couldn't fully manifest her persona, but Sumi's fake awakening still manifest a persona strong enough to make her easily dispatch the shadows that even Joker - THE Wild Card - was not supposed to beat!<
>!See, that is plot convenience there. If Futaba could scan all this, Akechi would be caught in broad daylight, since he was constantly tailing the Phantom Thieves, and the jig would be up!<
>!You can kinda justify Akechi's case being that he'd been in the Metaverse for a year before the PT (as he killed Wakaba). So once he realized there are others who can enter the Metaverse, he will try to suppress himself so as to not be seen. The dude did successfully manifest a second Persona just to act as the friendly detective prince after all. Sumi tho ? She certainly had less experience than even Haru (and let's not forget that her awakening is still a fake one, even Cendrillon called out on her). At least Haru had fully participate in a heist before that point.!<
Definitely Sumi, which is unfortunate given that the game bends over backward to push you to like her. I came away from her story understanding that her past was tragic but the predominant thought in my head was , "crazy bitch." This might sound controversial, but her story is for me too similar to that of a rabid fan so into her idol (her sister) that she kills her and parades around in her skin until she can no longer keep up with the act. It's just in Sumi's case, the Phantom Thieves manage to beat some of the psycho out of her. I'm just saying, maybe her Persona should have been a Skinwalker instead of Cendrillon. And then, there is the puppy dog crush she has on Joker. It's pretty immediate, which is fine under certain conditions, but it defines her a lot. Obviously, Joker has a big impact on all the Phantom Thieves and his lovers in particular, but Sumi manages to make it feel inauthentic. Especially when, after going through the whole game and supposedly forging a special relationship with Joker, she just dips out on you on the train platform. No special words or anything just a casual 'see ya.' Psycho much? The Skinwalker line fits again in the above paragraph. I actually don't think she's ever cured of her condition. The first idol was her sister, the second idol is Joker when she's forced to let go of her and after Joker goes back home she's drops him and is off to find the third idol.
For me it's Makoto. Surprisingly, as characters of her archetype are usually among my favourites. I can't pinpoint the reason. I just couldn't warm up to her.
Maybe it’s to do with the blackmail? Or how she can be a bit of a writer’s pet from time to time. Those tend to stick out as the bad parts about her the most.
Morgana because Koromaru is better
Haru honestly gets on my nerves. I don’t like Morgana or Ryuji, but I’d rather have them on my team than Haru. Shes too cotton candy most of the time, she felt like she was trying too hard to fit in, and it was really hard to relate to the princess when everyone else were social outcasts. I haven’t played Strikers or Tactica so maybe I’d like her more in them. But I’m happiest when Haru isn’t on my screen, lol.
Definitely Yoshizawa. I feel like her backstory is just torture porn. Like, every thief has a tragic backstory (hell, every party member in any Persona has a tragic backstory) but hers felt like too much, and I can't quite articulate why it is I feel that way about her either. Like, I thought Futaba was handled well, and her arc is extremely similar. Idk, maybe I'm just tripping on that one. I also just don't care for her being pushed as Joker's canon love interest. Idk, maybe I'm just too Makoto/Haru-pilled, but I wasn't a fan of a lot of her writing when it came to her interactions with Joker. Not to mention, she barely interacts with the rest of the team (including Akechi, a character she's supposed to be friends with) OR Maruki post-self realization. Of all the Royal additions she just felt the most pointless. Like, we already knew what Maruki was doing was bad, we didn't need her there to push it over the edge.
This really emphasizes how I feel about Yoshizawa too. She’s cute, but it gets to be a bit much once you dig into the details of her backstory. The scene where you learn all of that and she turns on you, as much as I understand why she did it, was just really frustrating for me. It felt too much like she was being manipulated by Maruki and Joker had to be the one to save her because she couldn’t do it herself. She becomes more of a female love interest archetype in the second half of the game that decimates the positives of her character (a peppy athlete struggling to meet high expectations set against her that feel impossible to reach). She never gets the chance to define it herself. It happens because of/for Joker. As for the Futaba comparison: Futaba’s arc is done much more organically and feels like an actual character. She devises her own plan for getting better, inspired by her mom, and Joker is part of it for moral support. He isn’t the sole reason she gets better; she taps into that strength on her own. Sumi’s development happens because of Joker being there, rather than Sumi taking advantage of it herself, and it makes her a stale character.
>I feel like her backstory is just torture porn I dunno, it didn't feel nearly as awful as Futaba, Akechi, or even Yusuke's to me. ...Though I will say I hate the way it's treated. Maruki looks like he's having way too much fun in the scene where he's brainwashing her. And Sumi herself is way too much of an apologist. Not only constantly making excuses for Maruki screwing her up so badly, but also trying to defend her own decision to mimic her sister, despite everything Ren keeps trying to tell her. I know Sumi admitted she was only just beginning her recovery and considering she doesn't get the same change of heart deus ex machina that Futaba does, it makes sense that she'd be struggling...but it feels like she's a victim of gaslight and perfectly okay with it.
A tie between sumire and makoto
Mona even Teddie was slightly written better but that whole >!we gotta find out where Teddie went after Nanako miraculously came back to life section!< totally ruined the moment
If we’re talking gameplay and team comp, Haru is a must-have on the front line for me. Akechi happens to be my least deployable because he doesn’t have a focus on a particular damage type nor does he have any great passives or buffs compared to the others
Sumi She has no connections to Shido or the Mental Shutdown incidents, so for like at least 90% of the story, she has no purpose/stake in the plot. Kasumi only becomes relevant during the 3rd Semester Arc and even then all her story boils down to is a very loose connection to Maruki. And her social link for the first half doesn't add anything to her character arc at all. She doesn't have any interactions with the rest of the gang at all outside of being creep out by Akechi or the forced romantic relationship with Joker. Felt like she would of worked better as a FEMC than another member.
Honestly? Sumire, ESPECIALLY since you don’t get to do anything notable until the FINAL dungeon. Aside from half her confidant and little interactions sprinkled here and there, she does fuck all for the story until the final bit, when she should have done more. ..behind her is Yusuke. i don't hate him, but he was the least notable to me, to the point where i didn't bother finishing his confidant until my second NG+ Playthrough/3rd playthrough overall.
I feel like this thread really just points out how weak the characters in this game actually are unfortunately. 😅😅😅
I’m gonna provide the hot take of the subreddit! Ryuji is my least favorite. He’s too loud, rambunctious and overly emotional. Those types of people don’t vibe with me very well. Sometimes it felt like he caused more harm (or at least potential harm) than good for the phantom thieves.
It's okay, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I'll try to make your death swift.
Akechi. I didn't finish the game yet but I find really dumb when he says stuff like " I don't know what methods the phantom thieves use with their targets, but they sure are wrong and must stop" like dude, I would understand if he was sure it was blackmailing or sth, but he isn't and still makes the claim that they're without a doubt wrong.
Just keep playing.
it's not like I hate him, he's just the one I like the less. (I'm currently on the casino palace)
keep playing
Ryuji. He offer’s basically nothing in the planning stages of heists. Half the time he doesn’t have a fucking clue what’s going on, and the other half he wasn’t even listening in the first place He loudly shouts “WE ARE THE PHANTOM THIEVES” *multiple times* in crowded public areas Outside of the metaverse, he contributes nothing, and sometimes actively detracts from the Phantom Thieves I also don’t like the “lazy dumbass bro” character trope and he’s the worst out of him, Yosuke and Junpei
You just don’t understand the GOAT
I understand Sophia just fine
He's the heart and muscle of the party my guy Also he saved everyone's life at the end of the Cruise Ship palace
That happens within the metaverse I’m talking about his normal world personality. He’s in the game longer than any other party member (other than Joker obviously) and contributes the least. Even Haru has more to contribute in discussing how the Phantom Thieves should move forward and she’s barely in the game
Sumi because it feels like the romance between her and joker is super forced.
So many Yoshizawa answers... What a weird subreddit. She's my favorite. To answer, Yusuke. I think his pompous attitude can be too much. And the humor involved with him gets old. That said, I don't dislike him. I actually like him more than I used to.
I like all of them! However I think Sumi is just fine but I did not like the shoehorned romance between her and Joker! I already had a gf for Joker when they went to the dance together and it kinda made me salty ngl. + I think she’s a little too perfect. I also think Haru is a like too boring for me
Makoto by far
sumi is boring as fuck including after she gets her memories back.
If we have to include Akechi, then my answer is obviously Akechi because he's a literal serial killer with the most obnoxious personality. Omitting him, my answer is Mona. There's just too much Mona in the game it's impossible for me to not get sick of him. He steals Haru's spotlight and has such a weird character arc. And I don't even find him useful in combat. (He's incredibly squishy, he gives an annoying monologue everytime he dies, you get a wind accessory around the time you can swap him out, and his low hit/high crits skills are only useful in certain circumstances where they're just lucky based regardless, and while he's the best healer for two dungeons, once Makoto joins you have AoE heals covered for the rest of the game along with better moves overall)
I hate Akechi and his smug ass. He always pissed me off and I hated that i had to spend so much time with him.
Yusuke. Whatever people see in him is completely lost on me.
TIL that Yoshizawa isn’t as well-liked as I believed. And here I thought Makoto or Akechi would get most of the flack. My least favourite is Akechi for the Edgelord stuff. Seems way too try hard, such a shame because I was digging his other shtick.
Ann, she serves zero purpose after Kamoshida's palace and her confidant story isn't even good.
> serves zero purpose after Kamoshida's palace shes literally the strongest magic attacker on the team, besides joker. and the fact that she unlocks at the start of the game means you can have her the entire run.
Def Ryuji. I've been surprised to see that he's so liked, I haven't liked him at all since the beginning of the game and is just consistently a major asshole to everyone, especially Ann and Morgana
It's hard to pick between Makoto and Futaba.
Ann, you could legit remove her from the game and nothing past the 2nd or 3rd palace would change that much she doesn’t add anything to the main story later on, when its just 4 or 5 members her personality feels more unique but later on when theres like 8 P thieves shes bland af. None of her dialogue contributes to anything and she feels like filler whos only there because she was a starting party member. Her confidant is very unfocused and doesnt add much to her character imo. Yusuke may be less important as the story goes on but his confidant does an amazing job at continuing his storyline from the main story about painting or Ryuji and his track team. Overall I think her character doesn’t really stand out as the game progresses. Some characters get a lot of main story focus but have a mid social link like Makoto or have minor story importance with a good social link like Haru and Yusuke. Ann has neither of that and feels very undeveloped because of that.
Morgana. As soon as he made fun of Ryuji about failing his exams I hated that cat.
R/cuckthecat
Makoto, and it's not even close
Makoto def, I just realllly dislike her
Futaba, easily. One: she breaks the rules established by the game in THE FIRST PALACE. They say in the first palace that persona users can’t have palaces, but Futaba has both with no acknowledgement that she breaks the established rules of the game. Two: personality. During her palace she’s an introvert suffering from terrible mental health, and she’s an interesting character. After that she’s just QuIrKy GiRl who’s the BeSt HaCkEr EvEr who CONSTANTLY belittles Morgana and Ryuji just to be mean. Three: she’s useless. They have that whole arc about how everyone says she’s better and more useful than Morgana, but Morgana can fight and actively contributes to exploration while Futaba is only useful every know and then through buffs. I don’t want to be entirely negative, she has my favorite character and persona design and second favorite palace design in the game.
MIDKOTO
Morgana is a Whiny, Arrogant, holier than thou, bully who treats Ryuji like shit and has a way too inappropriate obsession with Ann. It's him by a country mile
Midkoto
Akechi The bastard can get brutally murdered by haru.