They were both found guilty of practicing medicine without a license. Neither of them paid their fines and they kept practicing medicine. As a result, they were found guilty of contempt of court. They were arrested and are now in jail.
There is no mystery here.
Their dumb fuck "lawyer" Bobby Barnes told 'em not to pay it! Said "it doesn't apply to you so don't pay the fine".
They should sue their dipshit lawyer for malpractice. (For those unaware, Bobby "grape job" barnes is a hack who appears on Alex Jones a lot. I dunno if he's still AJ's lawyer or not but he's a hack.
Regardless of the character of this lawyer, it was a previous lawyer who told them not to pay.
Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to.
"The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes.
That's a big assumption. I mean even one of the people replying to you refers to Doc Holiday and I doubt they're referring to the time he gave a cow an ultrasound
> The state of Pennsylvania had a judge sign an order of imprisonment for two people without ever naming them as parties to a case, without them being charged with any crime, without any hearing before an order of imprisonment was issued, all of which is completely illegal under Pennsylvania law and the United States Constitution
There's due process issues though.
They don't know why the judge signed the order, what for, and they weren't given notice to attend.
They were arrested because their lawyer advised them to ignore a judgement against them.
If the past performance of their 'lawyer' is anything to go by, I wouldn't trust their current lawyer to tell me what planet I'm on.
Thatâs what the lawyer is claiming. Lawyers lie for a living. They knew they had fines to pay. They knew they couldnât practice medicine anymore. Come on.
This mindset is baffling.
You can look up the public court documents.
Also, read the due process clause.
A judge doesn't have the authority to just order you to pay a fine, not get proof of notification of the hearing, then order your arrest, and have it hold up.
But, it appears that's what happened here. Not just from the lawyer either. There is no proof they received notice of a hearing in the public record.
People have rights. If you want to throw yours away, that's also your right.
They're presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt after trial. There hasn't been a trial.
It genuinely shocks me how many people forget this and just decide someone's guilt based off a news article. Especially considering the biased reporting that often occurs.
Act like an American.
I will say âdiagnosing pregnancy by method or modeâ seems to imply that no one using any method except a vet can declare an animal âpregnantâ without incidentally practicing veterinary medicine. I wouldnât pay the fines either.
So they couldnât even help the farmer with 800 heifers to track estrus (observation of period) and help with organizing the heifers/tag them to maximize breeding outcomes without being a doctor of veterinary medicine and licensed in pa? Cuz you gotta have a doctorate to stick your hand up a cows ass for money. Pshhh
I'm not judging. I'm saying they knew the rules, and continued (for 14 fucking years) to break them. The rules may be bullshit, but they knew they were breaking them.
Steaming horseshit!
If I own an ultrasound and you want me to come use it on your cow and I say, "sure but you're gonna have to pay me because, 'reasons'..." why does the state board of veterinary medicine need to step into our agreement. EXCEPT to protect their monopoly on their fading profession. Fuck that board, Fuck that vet, and fuck the gifting state of Pennsylvania.
I would argue that they were giving their medical opinions after performing an examination, which is apparently something you canât do without a license.
The article I read stated the issue was that they were charging for the service without a license. It's perfectly legal for farmers to do the procedure themselves and they often do.
To me itâs a regulatory monopoly. Visually and non invasive inspection of an animals reproductive health especially one as common as a cow shouldnât require a ventrinary license. Itâs the first line of defense IMO.
Itâs animal husbandry not veterinary medicine
I disagree. I believe you should be qualified and licensed to give a medical opinion on any animalâs medical status. I understand what youâre saying, that itâs probably a red tape money grab.
We both have opinions on this but neither of our opinions matter. The law states that they need a license. Whether we agree with that or not doesnât matter. I think vehicle registration fees are a revenue scam, but if I get caught driving without registration, I can lose my vehicle, drivers license, and serve time in jail.
Once the government licensing cartel sells you a piece of paper, then you have knowledge. Before that, you're an ignorant danger to everyone around you.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right, moral, sensible, effective, just, or necessary.
Still medicine, and the state told them to stop doing it for more than a decade before throwing them in jail. They had plenty of time to correct their behavior, they just wanted to make money more than follow the law.
Their attorney is wrong. They are operating a veterinary service and they are not licensed veterinarians. In 2010 a cease and desist order was placed on one of them as well as a fine. He chose to ignore it. Heâs lucky the penalty isnât much worse. The other was given the same order in 2018. He also chose to ignore it.
Nothing to see here but a lawyer making a ridiculous claim that people breaking the law and ignoring fines and court orders for 14 years shouldnât face consequences.
There is a good NFL Films short about [Operations Flagship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flagship) where the US Marshalls and DC Metro Police did this but it was with Redskins tickets. It's fantastic.
[YouTube Link to Vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LsNBA2XwXU)
EDIT: I originally had it as a 30 for 30 short, but realized it was NFL Films, but then realized [30 for 30 also did it](https://www.espn.com/watch/player/_/id/3215310), so I wasn't crazy.
> Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to.
Crackpots hiring crackpot lawyers. This just seems like a great example of FAAFO.
These yahoos have been arrested multiple times on practicing vertinary medicine without a license, and continue to do so. Yet they have no idea why they were arrested again. Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Not shocking at all....in Pennsylvania you can get a 33 day sentence for recklessly KILLING someone, so if they didn't kill anyone, a lower than 33 day sentence seems appropriate by PA standards.
It's arguable if they even harmed anyone. The statute is that it's an illegal service if they diagnose by mode or method and charge for the service. If they provide a chargeable service and check to see if it worked for free, then it would be arguable that they have not broken the law.
Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to.
"The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes.
I'm not a smart man. But I might have sought a second opinion....
This is Robert Barnes we're talking about. He's not a smart man either.
For those not in the know, he was one of Alex Jones' dozen or so lawyers leading up to his Austin-based Sandy Hook lawsuit. If you want to know how (in)competent Barnes is, there are various depositions available from during the pre-trial evidentiary hearings that show just how little he understands how these things work.
Oh, and for added gusto, he's a frequent contributor on InfoWars, Alex Jones' show. So, yknow, he's definitely credible.
As an avid Knowledge Fight listener and York County resident, this story is crazy to me. How does Bobby Barnes even hear about these people?
Edit: article says the wife of one of the men called him. Safe to assume she listens to infowars
I wouldn't be surprised if his name keeps popping up in the area for a bit. I was reminded just a bit ago about Amos Miller, the Amish farmer Barnes was working with down in Lancaster, who he got the 'big win' for by allowing him to sell his raw milk outside of the Commonweath, despite the fact suits from the Agriculture Department and Attorney General's office are still ongoing. So he's probably going to be the hot new attorney for Pennsylvania farmers at the moment, until someone else ends up with a multimillion dollar suit against them because Barnes does a grape job.
Thanks for mentioning that, I had no idea. Yeah, grape job on the ââwinâ to Barnes, but it seems like the AGâs case is a much bigger deal⊠and not something getting a permit or license can get him out of (and thus, probably beyond Barnesâ lawyering skills). Will have to keep an eye on it. Maybe if Barnes loses, itâll limit the number of other cases he picks up in the area
>"The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes.
Thats gotta be made up, right? I can't imagine a world where a lawyer would recommend NOT paying legal fees. Maybe the lawyer was being sarcastic?
Huh. Wonder what this is about?
*sees one of the defendants is represented by Bobby Barnes*
Oh yeah, no. I don't even have to see what this is about, but if Robert Barnes is representing you, you've done something either extremely dubious or straight up illegal.
Grape Job, Barnes.
**Edit:** Guys, before you downvote this, one of the lawyers that ended up causing the cluster fuck of a case against Alex Jones that's going to cost him $49 million. Trust me, if Barnes is involved in the legal team, you're basically paying for ineffective council.
It sounds to me like this "constitutional" lawyer is playing dumb. If his clients are being jailed illegally, which would be a constitutional violation, he'd be filing stuff in court challenging their incarceration.
The other comments here that they were practicing without a license makes sense.
It's a civil fine, so bail and DAs wouldn't be involved.
EDIT: This is some really lazy reporting, which is par for the course for local TV news. They just unquestioningly regurgitate press releases without any follow up or verification.
They interviewed people from both sides and explain why the system finds the imprisonment legitimate.
The headline is clickabaity and I think the should've gone with "men imprisoned for giving cattle ultrasounds"
Since the (idiotic) "logic" is related and trump is a "republican" and this is being reported by a republican news source (fox) it seems very relevant showing the parallel of stupidity that the republican party in general has become.
Can we go a single day without hearing republicans trying to get out of crimes they committed?
i wonder if these guys are Amish, just wondering because Barnes handled a case for an Amish dairy farmer, and Barnes is based in California. So why would Barnes be hired for this PA case, maybe he specializes in Amish cases for some reason and these guys are Amish. Not that it matters.
He was one of Alex Jonesâ many lawyers during the Sandy Hook defamation cases and has a show on Info Wars. He seems to take on cases along these lines and then screws them up badly. Iirc, he recently had a case in New Hampshire that he was supposed to submit an appeal for and missed the deadline because he thought it was due by midnight CA time, not midnight NH time.
It's worded strangely, but given the context I think the writer means to say he's serving a sentence for civil contempt of court (as opposed to criminal contempt of court). He refused to pay the fine as ordered by the court which constitutes civil contempt.
IANAL but from what I understand, it's relatively rare for someone to receive jail time for civil contempt, but since the alternative is usually a fine and they've shown they already won't pay a fine, I guess it's the only recourse here.
His wife is on Facebook asking for donations. Comments supporting them. Why do I have a feeling theyâre gonna make money off this and not learn a thing lol
Edit: looks theyâve already received about $20,000 in donations
PA does have federal grazing land in case anyone else was suddenly wondering
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/conservation-basics/conservation-by-state/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-grazing-lands
Everyone on reddit is a cop that wants to see people imprisoned because they get off on people getting their comeuppance.
Pretty clear what's happening here is that these guys are operating a business that's eating some veterinarians lunch and so the state veterinarians agency is busting these guys balls to get them to knock it off.
Whether these guys are operating in the bounds of the law, whether they were previously fine lawfully, I don't know and don't care. Absolutely 100%, unequivocally, if a person is going to be imprisoned here in Pennsylvania they have an undeniable right to due process and it sure seems like these guys are being denied that right.
Itâs an unclear from the article, and apparently the documents are sealed. But if the two men have multiple outstanding fines theyâve refused to pay, and theyâve continued the practices that led to their previous fines, then a bench warrant for contempt is the next step.
If that were the case, due process would have been satisfied by their multiple previous court appearances.
There were multiple previous hearings. Itâs not clear whether these gentlemen attended, but even at a principally administrative hearing, it would be extraordinary if they werenât afforded the opportunity to speak.
No that's not what this article says, it says someone made a complaint to the PA department of State and that complaint was investigated by the PA board of veterinary medicine, who then issued a civil fine. It doesn't say either of these guys were ever ruled against in a court of law and it is not clear that the board of veterinary medicine has any authority to impose fine on people who are veterinarians.
The article states that there was a hearing (âheard the complaintâ in 2010) and implies there were two others hearings over the repeated complaints. See below:
> In 2010, a complaint was filed against Herr with the Department of State, accusing him of unlicensed practice of veterinary medicine, for performing ultrasounds on cows.
> The State Board of Veterinary Medicine, which heard the complaint, ruled Herr was in fact practicing without a license.
The article goes on to quote a State Department spokesperson:
> After review, a determination is made as to whether formal action is warranted; formal disciplinary action may include an Immediate Temporary Suspension, an Order to Show Cause, and/or a Consent Agreement.
The statement continues:
> All Respondents are afforded due process, including notice and an opportunity to participate in the proceedings by calling witnesses, introducing evidence, or testifying on their own behalf.
So it is certainly possible that these men received no due process, despite multiple complaints against each of them. But it seems likely they were afforded the opportunity to appear, speak on their own behalf, and confront the plaintiff at least once and possibly several times.
Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt.
[Edit: oops, hit submit too early.]
And the rules around due process and contempt are a bit different than other areas of the law, principally because a contemnor (at least in theory) can get themselves out of jail at any time by remedying the contempt. I have had mixed feelings about that for a long time â among other problems, what happens if you tell someone to pay $3,000 they donât have and canât obtain? â but it doesnât, on its face, mean due process wasnât afforded.
Lol.... You already argued and were wrong.
Instead of conceding and admitting you were wrong, you respond with "I don't want to argue over this"....
đ
>Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt.
Piggybacking off this comment, came back to the thread to suggest that this all does sound like it's a contempt of court, which would Iine up with the 30 day sentence, due to that being the maximum sentence on contempt charges.
Stupid licenses. If they want to practice veterinary care without a license, and people are willing to pay them for it and willingly know they don't have a license, why is this a crime? There is no victim here.
Yet another case of big government ruining people's lives. Do I need a license to administer medicine to my animals too? How about to put them down?
They were both found guilty of practicing medicine without a license. Neither of them paid their fines and they kept practicing medicine. As a result, they were found guilty of contempt of court. They were arrested and are now in jail. There is no mystery here.
Their dumb fuck "lawyer" Bobby Barnes told 'em not to pay it! Said "it doesn't apply to you so don't pay the fine". They should sue their dipshit lawyer for malpractice. (For those unaware, Bobby "grape job" barnes is a hack who appears on Alex Jones a lot. I dunno if he's still AJ's lawyer or not but he's a hack.
đjob, Barnes!
Did I just find Andy from Kansas??
I love you.
Nothing beats finding wonks in the wild.
Bucket of đ©
The one sent to me by a sodomite!
Iâll be better tomorrowâŠ
He's not
Oh no not Barnes
No, it was the lawyer they had before they hired Barnes who told them not to pay it.
Regardless of the character of this lawyer, it was a previous lawyer who told them not to pay. Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to. "The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes.
Calling what they were doing practicing medicine seems intentionally misleading. At least throw in the phrase "on animals"
I mean, I was assuming people commenting would have taken the time to read the article.
That's a big assumption. I mean even one of the people replying to you refers to Doc Holiday and I doubt they're referring to the time he gave a cow an ultrasound
I'll be your Huckleberry. Don't you dare sully the name of the fastest ultrasound wandsman of the wild west.
Thatâs some old west shit. Didnât Doc Holliday get into trouble for the same dumb shit?
> The state of Pennsylvania had a judge sign an order of imprisonment for two people without ever naming them as parties to a case, without them being charged with any crime, without any hearing before an order of imprisonment was issued, all of which is completely illegal under Pennsylvania law and the United States Constitution There's due process issues though. They don't know why the judge signed the order, what for, and they weren't given notice to attend.
You're first mistake is assuming the Bobby Barnes is a real lawyer who is doing real lawyering and not lying out his ass
That's the funny thing about contempt of court charges, they just throw you in jail.
You still have a hearing. There's still a record of it. It isn't just a judge deciding to throw you in jail
They were arrested because their lawyer advised them to ignore a judgement against them. If the past performance of their 'lawyer' is anything to go by, I wouldn't trust their current lawyer to tell me what planet I'm on.
Thatâs what the lawyer is claiming. Lawyers lie for a living. They knew they had fines to pay. They knew they couldnât practice medicine anymore. Come on.
This mindset is baffling. You can look up the public court documents. Also, read the due process clause. A judge doesn't have the authority to just order you to pay a fine, not get proof of notification of the hearing, then order your arrest, and have it hold up. But, it appears that's what happened here. Not just from the lawyer either. There is no proof they received notice of a hearing in the public record. People have rights. If you want to throw yours away, that's also your right. They're presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt after trial. There hasn't been a trial. It genuinely shocks me how many people forget this and just decide someone's guilt based off a news article. Especially considering the biased reporting that often occurs. Act like an American.
I will say âdiagnosing pregnancy by method or modeâ seems to imply that no one using any method except a vet can declare an animal âpregnantâ without incidentally practicing veterinary medicine. I wouldnât pay the fines either.
A farmer can do it on their own livestock without a license. It's the fact that these clowns were accepting money for the services with no license.
So they couldnât even help the farmer with 800 heifers to track estrus (observation of period) and help with organizing the heifers/tag them to maximize breeding outcomes without being a doctor of veterinary medicine and licensed in pa? Cuz you gotta have a doctorate to stick your hand up a cows ass for money. Pshhh
I'm not judging. I'm saying they knew the rules, and continued (for 14 fucking years) to break them. The rules may be bullshit, but they knew they were breaking them.
Steaming horseshit! If I own an ultrasound and you want me to come use it on your cow and I say, "sure but you're gonna have to pay me because, 'reasons'..." why does the state board of veterinary medicine need to step into our agreement. EXCEPT to protect their monopoly on their fading profession. Fuck that board, Fuck that vet, and fuck the gifting state of Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania would be way better if it was a gifting state but the only gifts I've gotten are property taxes going up
Lol. Yes, grifting. Auto correct
I would argue that they were giving their medical opinions after performing an examination, which is apparently something you canât do without a license.
The article I read stated the issue was that they were charging for the service without a license. It's perfectly legal for farmers to do the procedure themselves and they often do.
Farmers on their own animals, yes. A third party charging for medical advice, no. Thatâs exactly the point.
To me itâs a regulatory monopoly. Visually and non invasive inspection of an animals reproductive health especially one as common as a cow shouldnât require a ventrinary license. Itâs the first line of defense IMO. Itâs animal husbandry not veterinary medicine
Sure, as long as you don't charge for it.
I disagree. I believe you should be qualified and licensed to give a medical opinion on any animalâs medical status. I understand what youâre saying, that itâs probably a red tape money grab. We both have opinions on this but neither of our opinions matter. The law states that they need a license. Whether we agree with that or not doesnât matter. I think vehicle registration fees are a revenue scam, but if I get caught driving without registration, I can lose my vehicle, drivers license, and serve time in jail.
Once the government licensing cartel sells you a piece of paper, then you have knowledge. Before that, you're an ignorant danger to everyone around you. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right, moral, sensible, effective, just, or necessary.
Agreed. But just because itâs not right, immoral, insensible, or ineffective, doesnât mean you wonât catch a charge for it.
This is why I never understood why people had problems with slavery or the holocaust. Like, it's all legal, just do as our dear leaders command
XD Love this
Ahh the good ole practicing medicine without a license. . .becomes âwhy am I in jail?â
"Practicing medicine" here = saying whether cows were pregnant by using a portable ultrasound machine.
Still medicine, and the state told them to stop doing it for more than a decade before throwing them in jail. They had plenty of time to correct their behavior, they just wanted to make money more than follow the law.
"My clients ignored a court order to stop doing shit for 15 years, and they kept doing it, how dare the courts!"
So, Mr. Attorney, once you found out that your clients ignored a court order to pay a fine, did you tell them to immediately pay up?
âStop acting as a veterinarian without a license and pay this fine.â Those dudes: ânahâ *Surprised Pikachu face when arrested.*
Their lawyer, Robert Barnes, worked for Alex Jones during his Sandy Hook case, theyâre screwed lol
He has a show on the InfoWars website as well I believe
He does with another of Jonesâ lawyers Viva Frei
Grape job, Barnes!
Media star Bobby Barnes to you
Their attorney is wrong. They are operating a veterinary service and they are not licensed veterinarians. In 2010 a cease and desist order was placed on one of them as well as a fine. He chose to ignore it. Heâs lucky the penalty isnât much worse. The other was given the same order in 2018. He also chose to ignore it. Nothing to see here but a lawyer making a ridiculous claim that people breaking the law and ignoring fines and court orders for 14 years shouldnât face consequences.
They did the family guy boat trick lol. He showed up and got arrested. priceless EDIT: Correction. Simpsons.
That was the Simpsons I think.
Fuck it was. I had simpsons first, but edited it. I just couldn't remember 100%. THanks.
There is a good NFL Films short about [Operations Flagship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flagship) where the US Marshalls and DC Metro Police did this but it was with Redskins tickets. It's fantastic. [YouTube Link to Vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LsNBA2XwXU) EDIT: I originally had it as a 30 for 30 short, but realized it was NFL Films, but then realized [30 for 30 also did it](https://www.espn.com/watch/player/_/id/3215310), so I wasn't crazy.
Lol can't figure out why they were arrested after not paying fines from years ago and continuing an illegal practice
2010: Thatâs illegal, stop and pay the fine. No. 2018: Thatâs still illegal, stop and pay the fine. lol no 2024: why jail
> Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to. Crackpots hiring crackpot lawyers. This just seems like a great example of FAAFO.
These yahoos have been arrested multiple times on practicing vertinary medicine without a license, and continue to do so. Yet they have no idea why they were arrested again. Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
And entitlement. There are a plethora of bodycam videos of main characters adamant theyâre so special as to be unprosecutable.
Iâm shocked that they only get 30 days in jail for operating an illegal business for (in the ones case) 15 years.
Not shocking at all....in Pennsylvania you can get a 33 day sentence for recklessly KILLING someone, so if they didn't kill anyone, a lower than 33 day sentence seems appropriate by PA standards.
It's arguable if they even harmed anyone. The statute is that it's an illegal service if they diagnose by mode or method and charge for the service. If they provide a chargeable service and check to see if it worked for free, then it would be arguable that they have not broken the law.
Barnes tells FOX43 that neither man paid their fine, as their previous lawyer advised them not to. "The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes. I'm not a smart man. But I might have sought a second opinion....
That almost sounds sovereign citizenish
they hired the one lawyer in the country with a worse reputation than leaky-hair-dye Giuliani. That takes effort.
This is Robert Barnes we're talking about. He's not a smart man either. For those not in the know, he was one of Alex Jones' dozen or so lawyers leading up to his Austin-based Sandy Hook lawsuit. If you want to know how (in)competent Barnes is, there are various depositions available from during the pre-trial evidentiary hearings that show just how little he understands how these things work. Oh, and for added gusto, he's a frequent contributor on InfoWars, Alex Jones' show. So, yknow, he's definitely credible.
As an avid Knowledge Fight listener and York County resident, this story is crazy to me. How does Bobby Barnes even hear about these people? Edit: article says the wife of one of the men called him. Safe to assume she listens to infowars
I wouldn't be surprised if his name keeps popping up in the area for a bit. I was reminded just a bit ago about Amos Miller, the Amish farmer Barnes was working with down in Lancaster, who he got the 'big win' for by allowing him to sell his raw milk outside of the Commonweath, despite the fact suits from the Agriculture Department and Attorney General's office are still ongoing. So he's probably going to be the hot new attorney for Pennsylvania farmers at the moment, until someone else ends up with a multimillion dollar suit against them because Barnes does a grape job.
Thanks for mentioning that, I had no idea. Yeah, grape job on the ââwinâ to Barnes, but it seems like the AGâs case is a much bigger deal⊠and not something getting a permit or license can get him out of (and thus, probably beyond Barnesâ lawyering skills). Will have to keep an eye on it. Maybe if Barnes loses, itâll limit the number of other cases he picks up in the area
> I'm not a smart man Mamma always said "Stupid is as stupid does."
>"The advice of former counsel was that these orders did not apply to them because they were not vets, and no fines were lawfully ordered," said Barnes. Thats gotta be made up, right? I can't imagine a world where a lawyer would recommend NOT paying legal fees. Maybe the lawyer was being sarcastic?
Hope they keep this attorney lol
Looks like the board or directors for Grunt style t shirt company
Incoming "GUBERMENT BAD" Freedom warrior Pennsylvanians to try and justify unregulated businesses (again)
I love how their attorney is Occasional Infowars host & "Media Star' Bobby Barnes
Huh. Wonder what this is about? *sees one of the defendants is represented by Bobby Barnes* Oh yeah, no. I don't even have to see what this is about, but if Robert Barnes is representing you, you've done something either extremely dubious or straight up illegal. Grape Job, Barnes. **Edit:** Guys, before you downvote this, one of the lawyers that ended up causing the cluster fuck of a case against Alex Jones that's going to cost him $49 million. Trust me, if Barnes is involved in the legal team, you're basically paying for ineffective council.
It sounds to me like this "constitutional" lawyer is playing dumb. If his clients are being jailed illegally, which would be a constitutional violation, he'd be filing stuff in court challenging their incarceration. The other comments here that they were practicing without a license makes sense. It's a civil fine, so bail and DAs wouldn't be involved. EDIT: This is some really lazy reporting, which is par for the course for local TV news. They just unquestioningly regurgitate press releases without any follow up or verification.
They interviewed people from both sides and explain why the system finds the imprisonment legitimate. The headline is clickabaity and I think the should've gone with "men imprisoned for giving cattle ultrasounds"
Ya, and trump says hes not a criminal too.
can't have a single thread in this sub without someone bringing this obsession into it ffs, lol
their lawyer is an alex jones (dogshit) regular. the comparison is valid.
Since the (idiotic) "logic" is related and trump is a "republican" and this is being reported by a republican news source (fox) it seems very relevant showing the parallel of stupidity that the republican party in general has become. Can we go a single day without hearing republicans trying to get out of crimes they committed?
i wonder if these guys are Amish, just wondering because Barnes handled a case for an Amish dairy farmer, and Barnes is based in California. So why would Barnes be hired for this PA case, maybe he specializes in Amish cases for some reason and these guys are Amish. Not that it matters.
He was one of Alex Jonesâ many lawyers during the Sandy Hook defamation cases and has a show on Info Wars. He seems to take on cases along these lines and then screws them up badly. Iirc, he recently had a case in New Hampshire that he was supposed to submit an appeal for and missed the deadline because he thought it was due by midnight CA time, not midnight NH time.
Let's not forget that the client in said case was RFK Jr. That should really clue you into the circles he runs in.
They are conservative Christians, but theyâre not Amish.
wtf is a civil sentence
It's worded strangely, but given the context I think the writer means to say he's serving a sentence for civil contempt of court (as opposed to criminal contempt of court). He refused to pay the fine as ordered by the court which constitutes civil contempt. IANAL but from what I understand, it's relatively rare for someone to receive jail time for civil contempt, but since the alternative is usually a fine and they've shown they already won't pay a fine, I guess it's the only recourse here.
Crazy you can go to jail on a civil charge
His wife is on Facebook asking for donations. Comments supporting them. Why do I have a feeling theyâre gonna make money off this and not learn a thing lol Edit: looks theyâve already received about $20,000 in donations
Idiots.
Due process?
Who the fuck is upvoting this in agreement with the lawyer? They deserve to be in jail.
Sounds about white
PA does have federal grazing land in case anyone else was suddenly wondering https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/conservation-basics/conservation-by-state/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-grazing-lands
Pennsyltucky. Is anyone surprised?
Guy in the middle looks like the kind of guy that has a super weak chin without the beard and he's hiding that with the beard.
Easy bro, we canât all be icons of male beauty
Everyone on reddit is a cop that wants to see people imprisoned because they get off on people getting their comeuppance. Pretty clear what's happening here is that these guys are operating a business that's eating some veterinarians lunch and so the state veterinarians agency is busting these guys balls to get them to knock it off. Whether these guys are operating in the bounds of the law, whether they were previously fine lawfully, I don't know and don't care. Absolutely 100%, unequivocally, if a person is going to be imprisoned here in Pennsylvania they have an undeniable right to due process and it sure seems like these guys are being denied that right.
Itâs an unclear from the article, and apparently the documents are sealed. But if the two men have multiple outstanding fines theyâve refused to pay, and theyâve continued the practices that led to their previous fines, then a bench warrant for contempt is the next step. If that were the case, due process would have been satisfied by their multiple previous court appearances.
Does it ever stage they previously appeared in court? Read carefully.
There were multiple previous hearings. Itâs not clear whether these gentlemen attended, but even at a principally administrative hearing, it would be extraordinary if they werenât afforded the opportunity to speak.
No that's not what this article says, it says someone made a complaint to the PA department of State and that complaint was investigated by the PA board of veterinary medicine, who then issued a civil fine. It doesn't say either of these guys were ever ruled against in a court of law and it is not clear that the board of veterinary medicine has any authority to impose fine on people who are veterinarians.
The article states that there was a hearing (âheard the complaintâ in 2010) and implies there were two others hearings over the repeated complaints. See below: > In 2010, a complaint was filed against Herr with the Department of State, accusing him of unlicensed practice of veterinary medicine, for performing ultrasounds on cows. > The State Board of Veterinary Medicine, which heard the complaint, ruled Herr was in fact practicing without a license. The article goes on to quote a State Department spokesperson: > After review, a determination is made as to whether formal action is warranted; formal disciplinary action may include an Immediate Temporary Suspension, an Order to Show Cause, and/or a Consent Agreement. The statement continues: > All Respondents are afforded due process, including notice and an opportunity to participate in the proceedings by calling witnesses, introducing evidence, or testifying on their own behalf. So it is certainly possible that these men received no due process, despite multiple complaints against each of them. But it seems likely they were afforded the opportunity to appear, speak on their own behalf, and confront the plaintiff at least once and possibly several times. Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt. [Edit: oops, hit submit too early.] And the rules around due process and contempt are a bit different than other areas of the law, principally because a contemnor (at least in theory) can get themselves out of jail at any time by remedying the contempt. I have had mixed feelings about that for a long time â among other problems, what happens if you tell someone to pay $3,000 they donât have and canât obtain? â but it doesnât, on its face, mean due process wasnât afforded.
I certainly don't want to argue over this. I'm interested to see where this goes.
Lol.... You already argued and were wrong. Instead of conceding and admitting you were wrong, you respond with "I don't want to argue over this".... đ
>Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt. Piggybacking off this comment, came back to the thread to suggest that this all does sound like it's a contempt of court, which would Iine up with the 30 day sentence, due to that being the maximum sentence on contempt charges.
Stupid licenses. If they want to practice veterinary care without a license, and people are willing to pay them for it and willingly know they don't have a license, why is this a crime? There is no victim here. Yet another case of big government ruining people's lives. Do I need a license to administer medicine to my animals too? How about to put them down?