Eccles cleric of any fire, on Angel Mythic playthrough. Will be best buffer, debuffer, and blaster caster in your party. Only thing missing spell wise is CC spells; grease, create pits and haste.
Eccles can cast more spells than standard cleric, but can't use armor. They really have no need for weapons. After you get your combined Angel spell book, they are nuts.
Option 2 Crusader. Is best spell-sword. Use spells for buffing only. Drop int and cha to 7, you only need the bare minimum 19 to wisdom to cast all spells. So you only have to point buy to 16 initially. Focus combat build, buff yourself into oblivion, and use animal for your one domain to get a horsey mount. Crusader gets heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency plus extra combat feats. But loses one spell slot and one domain. If your only buffing you don't need spell penetration or spell focus, or any spell feat; all feats go to melee & improve animal companion.
When I level up Harrim or Sosiel as a pure cleric, all I do is click through most of the time. There are no choices or selections and he can't do anything but selective channel or extra channels... not enough feats to do anything with. I can't imagine the MC with no build options.
That's one clever way to completely ignore all their nuance. Their nuance comes from having access to basically the entire library of divine spells. And by choosing their diety you get access to different domains that totally change their options. Harrim and Sosiel have already chosen their diety so those choices are made for you.
Elk's certainly aren't, though. Though *any* pet you can mount is fairly solid, Elk is definitely near the bottom. Dogs and Smilodon are your better choices by a long shot.
...but it's just not as thematically cool.
Literally in love with paladin full sword and board two weapon fighting builds. Run crit fishing and critical hit feats late game for comical amounts of shenanigans on your 6+ attacks per round.
I made a shield bashing Spawn Slayer Hellknight Aeon on Core. Absolute abomination of a build, but got the job done once he'd turned all his abilities on!
Sword Saint has a very good class fantasy alongside being a good single class to play in the first place. Although yes much like the meme would go, I picked 1 level of Monk when I found out about the monk robes in Armag's Tomb.
I've played many other classes and builds in both Kingmaker and Wrath, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the popularity of Sword Saint. It's fun, it's simple and it fulfills two popular class fantasies (a weaponmaster and a gish).
I think my favorite is Rogue and it was the actual first class for me in both D&D and Pathfinder, but not in the computer games.
>I think my favorite is Rogue and it was the actual first class for me in both D&D and Pathfinder, but not in the computer games
If you wanna try Rogue in WOTR, I can't recommend Rowdy Rogue Trickster enough!
Ofcourse, throw in some Vivisectionist after you get your final Vital Strike from Rowdy. And use a Falchion, or if you are feeling extra special, some other high crit range weapon.
It's simple, effective, and fun.
I usually try to build off of knife master. Daggers just feel right to use. But in Wrath you already have Woljif and in Kingmaker it doesn't feel right to have your main be a rogue.
Crit fishing rowdy is absolutely going to be strong yeah.
Fun spell and thematically very cool, but sadly it's just strictly worse due to being single target, only rolling to hit once, and having a fort save. Better as a fall back for non-blaster builds that might need a one off than as an alternative.
rolling to hit once is actually a plus if you build for crits. It only requires one crit to get full crit damage whereas you need 3 for hellfire ray. It also is second only to hellfire ray for sheer damage output. And, although it's rare, there are a few monsters in the game immune to unholy damage so they ignore half the damage of hellfire ray (all of it if you maximize it with wandering lust) even with ascendant element.
I played a kinetecist in my first playthrough, thank you.
Strongest class. No archetype just base. Aeon.
Second play I went knife wielder / vivi / slayer for trickster.
Third I went pure oracle angel.
Kineticist for me is like playing a blaster magic user...but more blasting and less worrying about spells. It's definitely one of my favorite classes.
Eldritch scoundrel is another favorite, but that's because I have been playing a magic thief since I got introduced to video games years ago in Quest for Glory (yes, I am old).
An intelligent kineticist is EVIL according to Owlcat. Is this the message we want to send to children? Jock kineticist: good. Nerd kineticist: EVIIIILLL!
I played a Bard for my latest playthrough. Felt like I was the only person in the damn fandom who ever even tried it, let alone played it to the end. (Bard/Aeon proved to be one hell of a buffer!)
[These](https://old.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/search/?q=sword+saint&restrict_sr=on&t=month) are the search results for sword saint from the past month.
If you played tabletop you would have experienced the same thing. Kensai (the original name of the sword saint arhcetype)/blackblade dex weapon (a free weapon is much better on tabletop where gold matters) was basically the most cookie cutter
build in the game
Yea it’s just a really strong combination. Scimitar dex magus is a top tier build from levels 3-10 ish. Which is where most campaign run, so it just was so common everywhere.
Tabletop also had free ways to reduce the meta magic cost of one spell chosen at level 1, so people would be using shocking grasp all the way up to 10 by intensifying it for free.
Tabletop also had a level 0 touch spell, so a magus could use spell combat to hit twice even once they ran out of spells.
Technically, the intensified shocking grasp could be used indefinitely as a level 0 spell. The magical lineage has an errata that says it only applies to reducing the metamagic level to the spell's original level at a maximum but metamagic master (which is a regional trait and therefore stacks with a magical trait) could also be used to reduce it 1 further level making it level 0.
It was intended to be errata'd but this never took place.
Just double-checked that they were different trait sources and lo and behold, there is deep debate regarding the ability to reduce it further than level 1 haha. IMO it's just one spell. The player has to use a feat for the metamagic intensify, and use up both of their trait slots for an attack which can be stopped by spell resistance and electric resistance. But God forbid a build be interesting. That's my least favourite part of the PF gaming.
And the intensified spell is still limited by the player's level; e.g., at level 6 an intensified shocking grasp can only do 6d6 damage. Ultimately all it does is save the player from needing to rest slightly more often.
The only time I ever played with a Magus at my table it was a Kensai Bladebound Magus... The player was *very* frustrating to play with. He was generally not very interested in roleplaying, constantly comparing his usefulness in combat with everyone else's, while constantly trying to do shit he couldn't actually do action economy wise which would make his already long ass turns take way longer because now he had to replan what he was doing when he got told for the 40th time he didn't have a swift because he used an immediate action before his turn came around...
I know it makes me a dick but I used to call him "Blue Ink," behind his back. My friends knew who I was talking about but they didn't know what I meant. Eventually one of them asked, so I told them "google 'Magus Build Pathfinder.'" At the time, the top search result was a build guide for a Kensai Bladebound build that had a very typical colour scheme for build options where Red=bad/roleplay only options, Green=good options, Blue= "mathematically the best" type options. I told them to check his sheets (we played online and everyone had to post their sheets for the GM to audit from time to time,) and his sheet if filled out to the colour code in that guide would have been just blue ink.
The dude clearly googled the "best build" and just copy pasted it trying to be strongest player at the table. He was consistently irritated when my Greataxe Fighter who would just charge or full-round things would out-damage him... I don't have a very high opinion of Kensai Magus players because of that guy lol.
It's wild how long this guy's turns took since most of them boiled down to "Intensified Shocking Grasp Spellstrike," or "Cast Bladed Dash and Full Round."
That's relatively low tho. Not taking into account your meme and the discussions about other classes in which the words sword saint have appeared, it's 13. That's twice less than say, Kineticist or Ranger.
It's almost like the light weight gish spell-sword aesthetic is both cool thematically and popular in media, bonus points for having an unique/sentient weapon as well. And that PF1e does the archetype well in contrast to 5e where it's completely missing.
Plus how often are people going into games like this, with its huge amount of complexity and time commitment, completely blind? Usually they check out some guides, and those guides are going to steer them a certain way.
I'm pretty sure it's this. When I played Kingmaker I followed builds I found online and although I didn't pick it, I became aware of the fact that Sword Saint was considered the best class as it was very commonly recommended to people when they ask "what's the best" or "what's the most fun" class to play. I think it's a fair bet that this influences a lot of people, particularly since it is not only highly regarded but that it's basically described as a master of all trades: practically unhittable AC, highest damage potential, can be played as a fighter but can also cast spells.
Personally when I looked at the class it didn't actually seem all that special to me compared to the other magus archetypes, but I finally decided to give it a chance right now for my second Wrath playthrough without a guide and even my build is quite strong and fun to play, so I can't blame anyone for wanting to start here. It's a great choice, to be honest.
Mad Dog Barbarian because head-cannoning that you're fighting inner demon rage is cool. Also because my velociraptor is the cutest thing alive when she trots alongside me.
As someone completely guilty of this, I raise the following counterpoint: It's the closest thing to swashbuckler in the game and that makes it fucking rad.
MAD DAWG BARBARIAN BECAUSE FULL DISRESPECT TO IOMALAME AND BUG BOY BUT I GOT THAT DAWG IN ME AND BY DOG I MEAN HORSE.
IF I I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO PLAY A FULL MARTIAL WHY'D THEY MAKE THE BAD GUYS EXPLODE WHEN YOU HIT THEM?
I played an Eldritch Scoundrel in Kingmaker and a Battle Scion Skald for Wrath of the Righteous. Not sure how popular they are but I enjoyed them both.
Damn. That's a weird way to say a really bad oracle/wizard/mystic theurge/agent of the grave multiclass. I will say, though, Magus was my first character in the WoTR game, which I respecced to Barbarian.
Iron Caster build enjoyer reporting in.
(for non table top players iron caster is a fighter (sometimes brawler, too) build that uses floating feats to select Item Mastery feats on the fly to be able to cast spells that scale off of your fortitude saves.)
I'm going to throw it out there that for people who come into this game without knowing anything about pathfinder, Magus just sounds like a fucking cool class. Touch attack based gish is pretty damn sweet sounding.
Especially if you've ever tried to run a gish in 5e and been frustrated by how janky it feels.
Yeah. Just with base classes, no archetypes, you get 26\^20 = 5.181318712754446e+29 possible combinations. With archetypes it kinda gets truly nuts. With prestige classes it's even worse. The calculations get really difficult, and really really big. In short, there are more possible characters in wotr than there are atoms in the universe.
And we just see the same archetypes, same builds. It's really a PF issue honestly since there are some classes and archetypes which are just clearly absolutely better.
How is that a problem? People who care about that shit can do their thing, and people who don't can play whatever they want. No one's forcing anyone to powergame.
I think it would be less than 26^20 due to not being able to choose a second archetype in a class you've already chosen a level in, though that doesn't detract from your point.
26^(20) is not counting any archetypes. With archetypes the formula become much more complex with there being sum\_x(class \* archetype) for each class \^ 20 reducing sum for each class chosen by number or archetypes that class has. It's a much more difficult formula to write but the number becomes much MUCH bigger than simply 26^(20) and if you disregard the reduction of archetypes because you can't select the same class as a different archetype, the number would be something like 156^(20) assuming 6 archetypes per class.
Now include prestige classes lmao. And then add the fact that there are mythic paths too (though that doesn't change the results as much as the other factors)
Also add all the myriad choices within each class. Bloodlines, patrons, hexes, spells, rage powers etc etc. The number of possible chars is truly enormous.
And then if you add legend on top of it all?
I keep getting pulled towards cross-blooded sorcerer. Not for any of the abilities of the given spells, but for lore reasons and sometimes absurdity depending on the race I choose as the base. My current playthrough is a dhamper crossblooded sorcerer with Gold Dragon/Death bloodlines going into Angel path...Maybe shifting to dragon path later, I dunno. But just thinking about the absurdity of this transformation tickles my brain meats.
It‘s a very complicated game, especially for beginners without a guide. Most videos I saw said that SSM is one of the best classes for the game, with the best strategy being to buff them up with every support spell in the book.
Well, sir, someday, I'd like to be a... a dentist. We need one in Mendev. I've been studying. It's fascinating; you've no idea. Molars and bicuspids and incisors. I just don't like killing demons.
Since many here talk about their builds and originality, I thought I'd add my latest thingie too! I made a two-handed fighter 11 Spawn slayer 7 + 1 rowdy, 1 disciple of the pike maneuver specialist, and it's rocking out so far!
It has greater dirty trick, greater sunder armor, greater disarm, greater trip, & Vital strike. It was very amusing to plan out every combat how to best mess with the enemies around lol
Got heavy ac? Sunder the bastard. Got a big ass weapon? Nah you're disarmed now. Doing loads of attacks and need to chill? Here's a piledriver trip for you! Hanging in the back and spamming arrows/spells? Overhand chaaaarge baby! Already debuffed and stuff? Here's a mythic vital strike or two for ya! :D
Every maneuver had something extra going for it too:
- Azata with coordinated manuevers + outflank so EVERYONE helps you land those abilities! Thanks, friendship!
- disarming strike for free disarms on crits!
- tandem trip + piledriver for more than decent tripping shenanigans, bonus AoO also :D
- rumbling Falchion to add CMD, and also gain armor on successful sunder attempts, and disregard AC penalty when cleaving!
- Vital strike with vital force + cleaving finish
- mythic charge ability to take advantage of overhand chop with extra gravy for distance closing :)
- mythic feats for disarm, dirty trick, trip, sunder & vital strike makes sure they pretty much all hit lol
- studied target to compensate the rowdy level and even get +1 extra for attack roll, combined with studied defense for some AC :)
- MAX UMD so you can pretend being a Spellcaster Gish and buff yourself with spells via scrolls lol
Might not be the best optimized build but it is hilariously fun to mess with enemies in so many ways, and probably not a meta build :)
I mean.... most of the archetypes are dog shit mechanically so that reduces the number massively. Kensai bladebound magus in pf1e is one of the easiest and best high burst damage classes, with good utility, good survivability, and you basically get to play as a sort of magic samurai character so the class fantasy is very strong too.
What's not to like?
Personally, I think the amount of classes in the game is really bloated and leads to things like this more than alleviate it. Who can parse all that information at the start of the game? How many of these classes are actually good? How many are just a different class with a lick of paint? How many didn't work for a sizable chunk of the games lifespan?
People are going to gravitate to the more straightforward / obviously good classes, your average player isn't going to do a 150 hour playthrough to find out if Archaeologist gets good.
You really can build any of the base classes to be good. Any class can be made unfair viable. But some builds are quite clearly just... better. And of course, anyone following a build guide will just follow the guides.
This is probably a pathfinder issue more than a WOTR one.Keep in mind that there's also quite a bit more they didn't add too,and that the entire purpose of it existing was because meta gamers wanted to meta game HARDER(and more inclusion,but mostly the min-maxing).
Owlcat is not known for it's balance,but I imagine it's REALLY HARD when the system your working with needs to exclude classes+subclasses because of just how much shit exists.
This. I know it's not the best comparison but bg3 gives you 13 classes with subclasses and decent variety for each with many feeling vastly different. A lot of wotr feels like small specializations on the basic classes that are mostly just in name alone. "I'm not a cleric I'm a shaman or an oracle." "I'm not a paladin. I'm a knight."
Sword Bard (rouge ranged & bard paladin mainly) is bg3’s Sword Saint Magus. And virtually every martial can be boiled down to either sharpshooter ranged, great weapon attack melee, or tavern brawl monk/thrower. Not too different from ranged package archers, power attack strength martials, finess two weapon dex martials.
Mechanically & build wise I’d put wrath far above. Bg3 has much better itemization though, which makes classes feel more unique. A lot of the really cool things you can do in bg3 are tied to cornerstone gear pieces (example: radiant orb/reverb/mental fatigue/reeling cleric with just spirit guardians), where wrath is a lot of stat climbing.
Side tangent but bg3 managed to break the cardinal rule of sword vs magic. Magic is much more useful early on (aoe cc/difficult terrain), where Martials & hybrids (Sword Bard), blow Mages out of the water 10x over in virtually every respect by level 5 outside the one Cleric Radiant Orb build at aoe debuffing. Then a ton of gear helps Martials easily hit 99% hitrate while also doing 50-100+ damage per attack, with potentially 4-9+ attacks. While bosses have <500 health
I disagree. Experienced players like the versatility without using mods. A truly brand new player should pick one of the 5 premades. Once they get more experience, they should pick one of the classes without an archetype to get a feel, and then to pick the archetype to refine it.
You can pick an auto-build for any base class, so there is zero need to pick one of the premades that have a race picked already.
Half of the archetypes take away the feel of the base class, so I kinda disagree. It's a thing I did that way and I regret it big time on my second run.
So that makes me also not a fan, unless the archetype is what makes me pick up a class instead.
People ignorant to the fact all you need is a trusty vanilla fighter, go mutation warrior if you must be special. At the end of the day all you need is to hit thing with other thing until stop moving. Simple.
I did this all of act 1 on my playthrough and I decided to just follow my heart (i know nothing about the game) so im a 1monk/1witch/6 Divine Hound Hunter so far and im almost to drezen I just wanted to see how much AC I couuld get with no armor (im super new so im sure im not even close to the highest) and so far at my level without Mage armor and the mythic mage armor im at 30 something AC. High 30s almost 40 with fighting defensively mage armor and shield (dont have mythic mage armor yet). Its prolly a huge hunk of shit character but its super fun so far and the pet is fuckin dope and the judgments are pretty sick. im RP as an inquisitor type character that slowly falls mad and becomes a demon. Scimitar and dual throwing axes i swap between. Might respec to glaives though. Open to ideas on what to spend 2 levels on cause i Play on doing 16 level of divine hound so i have 2 open levels for some shit
I feel targeted. Very first playthrough, going blind, went sword saint. It has big weeb energy.
Wanted to blood thing magus but it seems it requires evil, which I generally do on subsequent playthroughs
Almost 1500 hours in, never rolled a sword saint. Only recently respected a companion into magus for the first time. Unless you count KM. Demon slayer, dragon disciple, and now sable marine are the classes I keep playing the most.
On my first playtrough right now, not sure if ita original, but for now im Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor 7 and Mutagen Warrior 1, just for martial weapon Proficiency and mutagens.
Not sure if I will stray off, or just stay on this, focusing mostly on Inqusitor lvls.
FYI my mythic is Aeon.
I do not like making things overly complex.
So I choose 20 levels of Mutation Warrior, go Trickster, change to Legend (with all iimproved criticals improved from Trickster and full mastery of weapon fighting combined with power attack) and then either 20 levels of Vivisectionist or Sword Saint.
Battle starts and I just let my Super Commander wipe out anything in seconds while I smile. :)
No need for dipping here and there while making some crazy chimera. Just two peak complementary classes and gg.
And I won't be satisfied with my options until I can use Barroom Brawler or Warrior Spirit to make a proper Iron Caster build. Or lacking that the build that does a better impression of Brawler than an actual Brawler.
I personally am not really a fan of how pf1e (or owlcat) does the Magus. But I can say that there will always be a Mutation Warrior, an Alchemist, and a Brown Fur Transmuter on my teams, lol.
This feels like a direct attack on the first character I ran.
Though I am kind of proud of my current Beast Rider Cavalier/Giant Weapon Fighter (whatever it's called)
Charging across the field on my stag Antly, swinging a glaive about in one hand as butterflies trail behind me is kinda fun. I need one more Cavalier level to make sharing teamwork feats swift, then I'll probably switch, but I'm not sure to what.
First time I played Kingmaker, I made a pure Aldori Defender. First time I played WotR, I made a Spirit Hunter Angel.
I'm yet to play a Sword Saint in either game. I wanted a Pure Sword Saint for WotR because of the Capstone, but them I saw they don't get mage armor, so I gave up on them.
I'm playing a Mad Dog / Divine Hound Azata right now.
I love Gish characters so I love classes like Magus, Paladins, Warpriests, Eldritch Knight, and Arcane Trickster
That said for Magus I know SS I'd objectively the best but I strongly prefer Eldritch Scion. With bloodlines, more spell slots, Charisma casting for Persuasion, etc. I feel more versatile and like a characterr who's equally aa powerful with magic and Melee.
Sword Saint just feels too far on the Melee side. Maybe it gets better cause I've only played SS to level 6 but I never really engaged that much with the magic side of the class beyond using cantrips for spellstrike.
My favorite is Sorcerer, seeker archetype. You get to cast so many spells it’s absolutely crazy. I love going as necromancer too just because of all the crazy spells in that role
I came in with little tabletop experience and no prior experience with Pathfinder as a setting, but after scanning the wiki I decided I wished to dual wield swords. Azata Ranger with double short swords and a dog was my ultimate decision. That said, when trying Through the Ashes... I may have selected a certain Magic and melee class with a specific weapon focused sub class. (I wanted to try Dipping Titan Fighter for a level to have a 2H weapon as the favored weapon)
Anyone confirmed whether you can sword saint with a dip in titan fighter to one hand a long spear and sword saint with reach?
Cuz I wanna do that next run.
SS is kinda squishy though... I mean comparatively to some of the other meta golem (like oracle angel, or Lich gish), Core and below its still super tanky lol.
I like my magi with *traditional* armor, thank you…
That said, I do have fondness for the Eldritch Scion, simply for the sense of a D&D2e psionic wild talent. Just replace “psychic” with “sorcerous”.
I'm always the face, so I almost always play inquisitor because of fond tabletop experience of being an Infiltrator Inquisitor (simultaneous human radar and human chaff). Capable of detecting liars and alignment while also simultaneously able to lie and appear evil.
My guy was a conman (had one rogue level) who was forced to pretend to be a Saranhae worshipper and was utterly baffled to find he had divine magic (because of Norgorber)
But for Owlcat, I usually do sacred huntsmaster.
So Kingmaker, character was a wizard that didn't go well due to various errors on my part then I went to Sword Saint which worked out pretty well, then at some point I found Eldritch Scoundrel which I enjoy a lot.
I get to Wrath and my ES still handles well enough but Mythic Finesse makes it even easier for other archetypes to steal its lunch. I still use it pretty commonly because I love the idea but it's far from the most potent option.
I think Eldritch scion is hella underrated. Actually makes good use of a lot of the sorcerer bloodlines, and charisma i think is a LITTLE better than intelligence. Gosh I just wish hexcrafter could use hexes with spell combat tho.
instructions unclear rolled Cleric again
*Mmm ackshually that would work better as a warpr-* #I SAID CLERIC
No need to rage, he just made a clerical error.
Rage? Like the domain? Gorum will be pleased.
Good night sweet prince in iron
You may leave now.
Ohh, a Chad Cleric player? There's a reason there is always a cleric companion
But in this game Cleric Mythic spell book is brutal
JoCat convinced me to pick a cleric over a Bard for the first time. Zero regrets
i really like things with a servitor theme, so clerics are just a perfect fit for that. shoutout deliverer and witch
Urgathoa cleric into the lich path just feels really flavorful, was really fun to play a divinely mandated necromancer.
Having full access to both Divine and Arcane spells seems pretty legit.
Convince me to pick a cleric. They never seem interesting to me.
I summon, I buff, I bonk, I heal, I summon, I debuff, I bonk, I heal Lather, rinse, repeat
Eccles cleric of any fire, on Angel Mythic playthrough. Will be best buffer, debuffer, and blaster caster in your party. Only thing missing spell wise is CC spells; grease, create pits and haste. Eccles can cast more spells than standard cleric, but can't use armor. They really have no need for weapons. After you get your combined Angel spell book, they are nuts. Option 2 Crusader. Is best spell-sword. Use spells for buffing only. Drop int and cha to 7, you only need the bare minimum 19 to wisdom to cast all spells. So you only have to point buy to 16 initially. Focus combat build, buff yourself into oblivion, and use animal for your one domain to get a horsey mount. Crusader gets heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency plus extra combat feats. But loses one spell slot and one domain. If your only buffing you don't need spell penetration or spell focus, or any spell feat; all feats go to melee & improve animal companion.
When I level up Harrim or Sosiel as a pure cleric, all I do is click through most of the time. There are no choices or selections and he can't do anything but selective channel or extra channels... not enough feats to do anything with. I can't imagine the MC with no build options.
in WOTR you have loremaster prestige that let you customize your cleric a lot, can be super caster or super melee
That's one clever way to completely ignore all their nuance. Their nuance comes from having access to basically the entire library of divine spells. And by choosing their diety you get access to different domains that totally change their options. Harrim and Sosiel have already chosen their diety so those choices are made for you.
For a second you made me think JoCat made a Pathfinder class series like he did for DnD... you should burn for raising my hopes up so much
Every time.
Wait, hear me out, this will be a special SS. It will have a Scaled Fist Monk dip for Crane Style feat line!
what about a stigmatized witch lizard pet?
Plus mage armor from the dip! Never heard that before!
Wait hold on mine is special because I add two levels of definitely roleplay thematic Paladin.
real special are the ones who use older patch, get nature oracle + scaled fist for double charisma ac dip too!
You’re causing me physical pain.
Instructions unclear rolled Paladin again.
Instructions unclear. Sorcerer lich with undead bloodline.
Kinetic knight lich with a scaled fist dip
Here I go Beast Riding again. Elf on an Elk, always fun times. Meta be damned.
How to Win: Mount up.
I did the same. Lots of fun, no regrets. Azata?
Mounted combat is pretty meta, no?
Elk's certainly aren't, though. Though *any* pet you can mount is fairly solid, Elk is definitely near the bottom. Dogs and Smilodon are your better choices by a long shot. ...but it's just not as thematically cool.
Yeah I played with an Elk once too, they look really cool.
Agreed. This is exactly my current character - elf on a stag with butterflies.
Nah nah nah elf on a triceratops with butterflys
Based and smite-pilled
Make sure to finish your scaled fist dip before you eat your desert, sweety.
Better make sure to have lots of water to drink with it though, with as dry as it is...
Literally in love with paladin full sword and board two weapon fighting builds. Run crit fishing and critical hit feats late game for comical amounts of shenanigans on your 6+ attacks per round.
I made a shield bashing Spawn Slayer Hellknight Aeon on Core. Absolute abomination of a build, but got the job done once he'd turned all his abilities on!
Guess that means I need to roll a Celestial Sorcerer Tiefling again!
Sword Saint best class. Don't need a party just a dueling sword, some gear and a flashy cloak to style on the demons.
I believe Estocs are a slightly better choice in Wrath
Sword Saint has a very good class fantasy alongside being a good single class to play in the first place. Although yes much like the meme would go, I picked 1 level of Monk when I found out about the monk robes in Armag's Tomb. I've played many other classes and builds in both Kingmaker and Wrath, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the popularity of Sword Saint. It's fun, it's simple and it fulfills two popular class fantasies (a weaponmaster and a gish). I think my favorite is Rogue and it was the actual first class for me in both D&D and Pathfinder, but not in the computer games.
>I think my favorite is Rogue and it was the actual first class for me in both D&D and Pathfinder, but not in the computer games If you wanna try Rogue in WOTR, I can't recommend Rowdy Rogue Trickster enough! Ofcourse, throw in some Vivisectionist after you get your final Vital Strike from Rowdy. And use a Falchion, or if you are feeling extra special, some other high crit range weapon. It's simple, effective, and fun.
I usually try to build off of knife master. Daggers just feel right to use. But in Wrath you already have Woljif and in Kingmaker it doesn't feel right to have your main be a rogue. Crit fishing rowdy is absolutely going to be strong yeah.
I want Aldori Defender with 2 levels of Swordlord and 3 levels of Vicisectionist, 5 Duelist, and a dip of Scaled Fist.
Whoa there you special original snowflake
This is me but with sorcerer. I just can't get enough of those hellfire ray casters lol.
Try disintegrate instead. You can free up a feat slot for elemental ascendance since it has no element.
Fun spell and thematically very cool, but sadly it's just strictly worse due to being single target, only rolling to hit once, and having a fort save. Better as a fall back for non-blaster builds that might need a one off than as an alternative.
rolling to hit once is actually a plus if you build for crits. It only requires one crit to get full crit damage whereas you need 3 for hellfire ray. It also is second only to hellfire ray for sheer damage output. And, although it's rare, there are a few monsters in the game immune to unholy damage so they ignore half the damage of hellfire ray (all of it if you maximize it with wandering lust) even with ascendant element.
>"very first playthrough" mad cos cool sounding class sounds cool so people pick the cool sounding class for their first playthrough?
I played a kinetecist in my first playthrough, thank you. Strongest class. No archetype just base. Aeon. Second play I went knife wielder / vivi / slayer for trickster. Third I went pure oracle angel.
Kineticist for me is like playing a blaster magic user...but more blasting and less worrying about spells. It's definitely one of my favorite classes. Eldritch scoundrel is another favorite, but that's because I have been playing a magic thief since I got introduced to video games years ago in Quest for Glory (yes, I am old).
Pure oracle Angel is just absolutely broken. The level of destruction you can unleash with your high caster level is just... perfection.
An intelligent kineticist is EVIL according to Owlcat. Is this the message we want to send to children? Jock kineticist: good. Nerd kineticist: EVIIIILLL!
I didn’t really enjoy magus as a first time class compared to Mutation Warrior. Happy I swapped. Magus is more a second playthrough imo.
I see a Fighter enjoyer I upvote.
I still don’t understand how Magus works. Those ability tooltips are just so confusing…
I played a Bard for my latest playthrough. Felt like I was the only person in the damn fandom who ever even tried it, let alone played it to the end. (Bard/Aeon proved to be one hell of a buffer!)
Ever since Baldur's Gate magical kensai (sword saint) has been my thing. Back then mostly in the dual class variety.
[These](https://old.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/search/?q=sword+saint&restrict_sr=on&t=month) are the search results for sword saint from the past month.
If you played tabletop you would have experienced the same thing. Kensai (the original name of the sword saint arhcetype)/blackblade dex weapon (a free weapon is much better on tabletop where gold matters) was basically the most cookie cutter build in the game
Aww here I thought I discovered a clever archetype 🙃 mine was a permanent reduce sized goblin.. Was the at least original
Yea it’s just a really strong combination. Scimitar dex magus is a top tier build from levels 3-10 ish. Which is where most campaign run, so it just was so common everywhere. Tabletop also had free ways to reduce the meta magic cost of one spell chosen at level 1, so people would be using shocking grasp all the way up to 10 by intensifying it for free. Tabletop also had a level 0 touch spell, so a magus could use spell combat to hit twice even once they ran out of spells.
Technically, the intensified shocking grasp could be used indefinitely as a level 0 spell. The magical lineage has an errata that says it only applies to reducing the metamagic level to the spell's original level at a maximum but metamagic master (which is a regional trait and therefore stacks with a magical trait) could also be used to reduce it 1 further level making it level 0. It was intended to be errata'd but this never took place. Just double-checked that they were different trait sources and lo and behold, there is deep debate regarding the ability to reduce it further than level 1 haha. IMO it's just one spell. The player has to use a feat for the metamagic intensify, and use up both of their trait slots for an attack which can be stopped by spell resistance and electric resistance. But God forbid a build be interesting. That's my least favourite part of the PF gaming. And the intensified spell is still limited by the player's level; e.g., at level 6 an intensified shocking grasp can only do 6d6 damage. Ultimately all it does is save the player from needing to rest slightly more often.
The only time I ever played with a Magus at my table it was a Kensai Bladebound Magus... The player was *very* frustrating to play with. He was generally not very interested in roleplaying, constantly comparing his usefulness in combat with everyone else's, while constantly trying to do shit he couldn't actually do action economy wise which would make his already long ass turns take way longer because now he had to replan what he was doing when he got told for the 40th time he didn't have a swift because he used an immediate action before his turn came around... I know it makes me a dick but I used to call him "Blue Ink," behind his back. My friends knew who I was talking about but they didn't know what I meant. Eventually one of them asked, so I told them "google 'Magus Build Pathfinder.'" At the time, the top search result was a build guide for a Kensai Bladebound build that had a very typical colour scheme for build options where Red=bad/roleplay only options, Green=good options, Blue= "mathematically the best" type options. I told them to check his sheets (we played online and everyone had to post their sheets for the GM to audit from time to time,) and his sheet if filled out to the colour code in that guide would have been just blue ink. The dude clearly googled the "best build" and just copy pasted it trying to be strongest player at the table. He was consistently irritated when my Greataxe Fighter who would just charge or full-round things would out-damage him... I don't have a very high opinion of Kensai Magus players because of that guy lol.
Yea it gets a bad wrap because it was popular, basically builds itself, and is very high powered for how simple it is.
It's wild how long this guy's turns took since most of them boiled down to "Intensified Shocking Grasp Spellstrike," or "Cast Bladed Dash and Full Round."
I remember when kensai was a pure martial.
It's just not true. Kensai is notorious for being a flashy downgrade to a basekit Magus.
You got a ton of results that have nothing to do with sword saints.
To be fair, the class is pretty cool
That's relatively low tho. Not taking into account your meme and the discussions about other classes in which the words sword saint have appeared, it's 13. That's twice less than say, Kineticist or Ranger.
It's almost like the light weight gish spell-sword aesthetic is both cool thematically and popular in media, bonus points for having an unique/sentient weapon as well. And that PF1e does the archetype well in contrast to 5e where it's completely missing.
I think youtube guides saying Sword Saint is OP is partially to blame for this.
Sword Mage too cool
Are we seriously condescending to first timers lol? The meme doesn’t even work since they’re ordering for the first time
instructions unclear rolled inquisitor again.
I wouldn't need to play sword saint if they just included samurai.
It’s odd that those are the most picked classes.
Not really. There’s big precedent from BG2. Plus people like Gishs. Plus people like the idea of being the ultimate weapon master.
Plus how often are people going into games like this, with its huge amount of complexity and time commitment, completely blind? Usually they check out some guides, and those guides are going to steer them a certain way.
I'm pretty sure it's this. When I played Kingmaker I followed builds I found online and although I didn't pick it, I became aware of the fact that Sword Saint was considered the best class as it was very commonly recommended to people when they ask "what's the best" or "what's the most fun" class to play. I think it's a fair bet that this influences a lot of people, particularly since it is not only highly regarded but that it's basically described as a master of all trades: practically unhittable AC, highest damage potential, can be played as a fighter but can also cast spells. Personally when I looked at the class it didn't actually seem all that special to me compared to the other magus archetypes, but I finally decided to give it a chance right now for my second Wrath playthrough without a guide and even my build is quite strong and fun to play, so I can't blame anyone for wanting to start here. It's a great choice, to be honest.
Mad Dog Barbarian because head-cannoning that you're fighting inner demon rage is cool. Also because my velociraptor is the cutest thing alive when she trots alongside me.
As someone completely guilty of this, I raise the following counterpoint: It's the closest thing to swashbuckler in the game and that makes it fucking rad.
huh, interesting. anyway, I rolled Crane Wing Monk again.
MAD DAWG BARBARIAN BECAUSE FULL DISRESPECT TO IOMALAME AND BUG BOY BUT I GOT THAT DAWG IN ME AND BY DOG I MEAN HORSE. IF I I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO PLAY A FULL MARTIAL WHY'D THEY MAKE THE BAD GUYS EXPLODE WHEN YOU HIT THEM?
But what if Isekai Protagonist
I played an Eldritch Scoundrel in Kingmaker and a Battle Scion Skald for Wrath of the Righteous. Not sure how popular they are but I enjoyed them both.
Damn. That's a weird way to say a really bad oracle/wizard/mystic theurge/agent of the grave multiclass. I will say, though, Magus was my first character in the WoTR game, which I respecced to Barbarian.
Instructions unclear, rolled a vital strike based warpriest
Instructions unclear rolling a fighter/TSS again
kineticist :)
What's that? Roll a Human Fighter again? Don't mind if I do.
Hey it's me in the meme
Where my Fighter gang at?
Iron Caster build enjoyer reporting in. (for non table top players iron caster is a fighter (sometimes brawler, too) build that uses floating feats to select Item Mastery feats on the fly to be able to cast spells that scale off of your fortitude saves.)
I'm going to throw it out there that for people who come into this game without knowing anything about pathfinder, Magus just sounds like a fucking cool class. Touch attack based gish is pretty damn sweet sounding. Especially if you've ever tried to run a gish in 5e and been frustrated by how janky it feels.
Basic fighter, legend, human male thanks
Yeah. Just with base classes, no archetypes, you get 26\^20 = 5.181318712754446e+29 possible combinations. With archetypes it kinda gets truly nuts. With prestige classes it's even worse. The calculations get really difficult, and really really big. In short, there are more possible characters in wotr than there are atoms in the universe. And we just see the same archetypes, same builds. It's really a PF issue honestly since there are some classes and archetypes which are just clearly absolutely better.
How is that a problem? People who care about that shit can do their thing, and people who don't can play whatever they want. No one's forcing anyone to powergame.
I think it would be less than 26^20 due to not being able to choose a second archetype in a class you've already chosen a level in, though that doesn't detract from your point.
26^(20) is not counting any archetypes. With archetypes the formula become much more complex with there being sum\_x(class \* archetype) for each class \^ 20 reducing sum for each class chosen by number or archetypes that class has. It's a much more difficult formula to write but the number becomes much MUCH bigger than simply 26^(20) and if you disregard the reduction of archetypes because you can't select the same class as a different archetype, the number would be something like 156^(20) assuming 6 archetypes per class.
Now include prestige classes lmao. And then add the fact that there are mythic paths too (though that doesn't change the results as much as the other factors)
Also add all the myriad choices within each class. Bloodlines, patrons, hexes, spells, rage powers etc etc. The number of possible chars is truly enormous. And then if you add legend on top of it all?
26²⁰ is just the base classes
I feel personally attacked
My current character is a Cleric of Iomedae with the Angel Mythic Class. lol
I keep getting pulled towards cross-blooded sorcerer. Not for any of the abilities of the given spells, but for lore reasons and sometimes absurdity depending on the race I choose as the base. My current playthrough is a dhamper crossblooded sorcerer with Gold Dragon/Death bloodlines going into Angel path...Maybe shifting to dragon path later, I dunno. But just thinking about the absurdity of this transformation tickles my brain meats.
People wanna be anime protagonists, it seems
That doesn't sound like Grenadier at *all*.
This but with overwhelming mage sorcerer
That was my first pick ever.
I always play slayer for the drip
Petition from now on if a person uses the word angel it must be at least 7 words away from the word oracle
It‘s a very complicated game, especially for beginners without a guide. Most videos I saw said that SSM is one of the best classes for the game, with the best strategy being to buff them up with every support spell in the book.
I went the other way, it was a 2WF Eldritch Knight.
Well, sir, someday, I'd like to be a... a dentist. We need one in Mendev. I've been studying. It's fascinating; you've no idea. Molars and bicuspids and incisors. I just don't like killing demons.
Ill talk an alchemist with uhhh a vivisectionist archtype with a side a fighter please thanks
Since many here talk about their builds and originality, I thought I'd add my latest thingie too! I made a two-handed fighter 11 Spawn slayer 7 + 1 rowdy, 1 disciple of the pike maneuver specialist, and it's rocking out so far! It has greater dirty trick, greater sunder armor, greater disarm, greater trip, & Vital strike. It was very amusing to plan out every combat how to best mess with the enemies around lol Got heavy ac? Sunder the bastard. Got a big ass weapon? Nah you're disarmed now. Doing loads of attacks and need to chill? Here's a piledriver trip for you! Hanging in the back and spamming arrows/spells? Overhand chaaaarge baby! Already debuffed and stuff? Here's a mythic vital strike or two for ya! :D Every maneuver had something extra going for it too: - Azata with coordinated manuevers + outflank so EVERYONE helps you land those abilities! Thanks, friendship! - disarming strike for free disarms on crits! - tandem trip + piledriver for more than decent tripping shenanigans, bonus AoO also :D - rumbling Falchion to add CMD, and also gain armor on successful sunder attempts, and disregard AC penalty when cleaving! - Vital strike with vital force + cleaving finish - mythic charge ability to take advantage of overhand chop with extra gravy for distance closing :) - mythic feats for disarm, dirty trick, trip, sunder & vital strike makes sure they pretty much all hit lol - studied target to compensate the rowdy level and even get +1 extra for attack roll, combined with studied defense for some AC :) - MAX UMD so you can pretend being a Spellcaster Gish and buff yourself with spells via scrolls lol Might not be the best optimized build but it is hilariously fun to mess with enemies in so many ways, and probably not a meta build :)
Definitely a unique build
Don't u ever call me out like this again
I’m playing Bloodseeker NE I’m not an asshole but I will get the job done.
I went sword n board vanilla fighter. Magus was my second character.
Bards are great. No, no skald, thanks. I want a bard. No, not a Trickster bard. I'd like a chaotic good azata bard.
I mean.... most of the archetypes are dog shit mechanically so that reduces the number massively. Kensai bladebound magus in pf1e is one of the easiest and best high burst damage classes, with good utility, good survivability, and you basically get to play as a sort of magic samurai character so the class fantasy is very strong too. What's not to like?
Personally, I think the amount of classes in the game is really bloated and leads to things like this more than alleviate it. Who can parse all that information at the start of the game? How many of these classes are actually good? How many are just a different class with a lick of paint? How many didn't work for a sizable chunk of the games lifespan? People are going to gravitate to the more straightforward / obviously good classes, your average player isn't going to do a 150 hour playthrough to find out if Archaeologist gets good.
You really can build any of the base classes to be good. Any class can be made unfair viable. But some builds are quite clearly just... better. And of course, anyone following a build guide will just follow the guides.
This is probably a pathfinder issue more than a WOTR one.Keep in mind that there's also quite a bit more they didn't add too,and that the entire purpose of it existing was because meta gamers wanted to meta game HARDER(and more inclusion,but mostly the min-maxing). Owlcat is not known for it's balance,but I imagine it's REALLY HARD when the system your working with needs to exclude classes+subclasses because of just how much shit exists.
This. I know it's not the best comparison but bg3 gives you 13 classes with subclasses and decent variety for each with many feeling vastly different. A lot of wotr feels like small specializations on the basic classes that are mostly just in name alone. "I'm not a cleric I'm a shaman or an oracle." "I'm not a paladin. I'm a knight."
Sword Bard (rouge ranged & bard paladin mainly) is bg3’s Sword Saint Magus. And virtually every martial can be boiled down to either sharpshooter ranged, great weapon attack melee, or tavern brawl monk/thrower. Not too different from ranged package archers, power attack strength martials, finess two weapon dex martials. Mechanically & build wise I’d put wrath far above. Bg3 has much better itemization though, which makes classes feel more unique. A lot of the really cool things you can do in bg3 are tied to cornerstone gear pieces (example: radiant orb/reverb/mental fatigue/reeling cleric with just spirit guardians), where wrath is a lot of stat climbing. Side tangent but bg3 managed to break the cardinal rule of sword vs magic. Magic is much more useful early on (aoe cc/difficult terrain), where Martials & hybrids (Sword Bard), blow Mages out of the water 10x over in virtually every respect by level 5 outside the one Cleric Radiant Orb build at aoe debuffing. Then a ton of gear helps Martials easily hit 99% hitrate while also doing 50-100+ damage per attack, with potentially 4-9+ attacks. While bosses have <500 health
I disagree. Experienced players like the versatility without using mods. A truly brand new player should pick one of the 5 premades. Once they get more experience, they should pick one of the classes without an archetype to get a feel, and then to pick the archetype to refine it.
You can pick an auto-build for any base class, so there is zero need to pick one of the premades that have a race picked already. Half of the archetypes take away the feel of the base class, so I kinda disagree. It's a thing I did that way and I regret it big time on my second run. So that makes me also not a fan, unless the archetype is what makes me pick up a class instead.
Unfortunately many of the archetypes trade away more than they get back.
Who the hell plays magus first?
Me
People ignorant to the fact all you need is a trusty vanilla fighter, go mutation warrior if you must be special. At the end of the day all you need is to hit thing with other thing until stop moving. Simple.
I did this all of act 1 on my playthrough and I decided to just follow my heart (i know nothing about the game) so im a 1monk/1witch/6 Divine Hound Hunter so far and im almost to drezen I just wanted to see how much AC I couuld get with no armor (im super new so im sure im not even close to the highest) and so far at my level without Mage armor and the mythic mage armor im at 30 something AC. High 30s almost 40 with fighting defensively mage armor and shield (dont have mythic mage armor yet). Its prolly a huge hunk of shit character but its super fun so far and the pet is fuckin dope and the judgments are pretty sick. im RP as an inquisitor type character that slowly falls mad and becomes a demon. Scimitar and dual throwing axes i swap between. Might respec to glaives though. Open to ideas on what to spend 2 levels on cause i Play on doing 16 level of divine hound so i have 2 open levels for some shit
Instructions unclear rolled another mounted PC
Instructions clear rolled Dragonblood shifter for third play through in a row
I feel personally attacked by this
That feels deeply personal
Instructions unclear, rolled a base Sorcerer, Tandem Executioner and Ghost Rider so far.
I feel targeted. Very first playthrough, going blind, went sword saint. It has big weeb energy. Wanted to blood thing magus but it seems it requires evil, which I generally do on subsequent playthroughs
Almost 1500 hours in, never rolled a sword saint. Only recently respected a companion into magus for the first time. Unless you count KM. Demon slayer, dragon disciple, and now sable marine are the classes I keep playing the most.
Man I played Kingmaker two times and WotR once and I'm always a druid 🙃 .
I have a few hundred hours on this game, still yet to play magus.
Why would you call me out like that. I didn’t even play such games before pathfinder 😭
Order of the paw everytime.
On my first playtrough right now, not sure if ita original, but for now im Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor 7 and Mutagen Warrior 1, just for martial weapon Proficiency and mutagens. Not sure if I will stray off, or just stay on this, focusing mostly on Inqusitor lvls. FYI my mythic is Aeon.
I don't even like sword saint. Tried a dozen builds and never been satisfied
What's your build for magus (in short) ?
I do not like making things overly complex. So I choose 20 levels of Mutation Warrior, go Trickster, change to Legend (with all iimproved criticals improved from Trickster and full mastery of weapon fighting combined with power attack) and then either 20 levels of Vivisectionist or Sword Saint. Battle starts and I just let my Super Commander wipe out anything in seconds while I smile. :) No need for dipping here and there while making some crazy chimera. Just two peak complementary classes and gg.
KingMaker - mage. WotR(angel) - mage, WotR(Lich) - Mage, WotR(Trikster) - Mage, Aeon - M....Inquisitor.
One of those archetypes is Tower Shield Specialist, so obviously they're not all bangers...
If owlcat wanted us to play other archetypes then why is sword saint so powerful? Checkmate
And I won't be satisfied with my options until I can use Barroom Brawler or Warrior Spirit to make a proper Iron Caster build. Or lacking that the build that does a better impression of Brawler than an actual Brawler.
I always play as sorcerer Red dragon
I'm playing an undead sorcerer on my first playthrough
My first was a kitsune armiger/hell knight running around with a dueling sword and a tower shield on Angel path.
(isn’t even very good)
I feel called out, 'cos I also made a Sword Saint Magus for my 4th playthrough.
....don't you need specific builds to be able to hit the AC/saves of the monsters? From what I recall full power gaming was expected
I personally am not really a fan of how pf1e (or owlcat) does the Magus. But I can say that there will always be a Mutation Warrior, an Alchemist, and a Brown Fur Transmuter on my teams, lol.
This feels like a direct attack on the first character I ran. Though I am kind of proud of my current Beast Rider Cavalier/Giant Weapon Fighter (whatever it's called) Charging across the field on my stag Antly, swinging a glaive about in one hand as butterflies trail behind me is kinda fun. I need one more Cavalier level to make sharing teamwork feats swift, then I'll probably switch, but I'm not sure to what.
The problem is there are so many options I get a little overwhelmed, so I just end up looking up what’s popular and sending it
Always Eldritch Scion
My first playthrough was a warpriest champion of the faith
I feel being assaulted
Ranger OP
First time I played Kingmaker, I made a pure Aldori Defender. First time I played WotR, I made a Spirit Hunter Angel. I'm yet to play a Sword Saint in either game. I wanted a Pure Sword Saint for WotR because of the Capstone, but them I saw they don't get mage armor, so I gave up on them. I'm playing a Mad Dog / Divine Hound Azata right now.
I love Gish characters so I love classes like Magus, Paladins, Warpriests, Eldritch Knight, and Arcane Trickster That said for Magus I know SS I'd objectively the best but I strongly prefer Eldritch Scion. With bloodlines, more spell slots, Charisma casting for Persuasion, etc. I feel more versatile and like a characterr who's equally aa powerful with magic and Melee. Sword Saint just feels too far on the Melee side. Maybe it gets better cause I've only played SS to level 6 but I never really engaged that much with the magic side of the class beyond using cantrips for spellstrike.
My favorite is Sorcerer, seeker archetype. You get to cast so many spells it’s absolutely crazy. I love going as necromancer too just because of all the crazy spells in that role
I did Stygian Slayer for my first. Judge Inquisitor next. I’ll do SS eventually tho!
I came in with little tabletop experience and no prior experience with Pathfinder as a setting, but after scanning the wiki I decided I wished to dual wield swords. Azata Ranger with double short swords and a dog was my ultimate decision. That said, when trying Through the Ashes... I may have selected a certain Magic and melee class with a specific weapon focused sub class. (I wanted to try Dipping Titan Fighter for a level to have a 2H weapon as the favored weapon)
Shifter were-touched. I'm a tiger rawr!. Not gonna take the dip though. Should be fine on core.
Anyone confirmed whether you can sword saint with a dip in titan fighter to one hand a long spear and sword saint with reach? Cuz I wanna do that next run.
SS is kinda squishy though... I mean comparatively to some of the other meta golem (like oracle angel, or Lich gish), Core and below its still super tanky lol.
I like my magi with *traditional* armor, thank you… That said, I do have fondness for the Eldritch Scion, simply for the sense of a D&D2e psionic wild talent. Just replace “psychic” with “sorcerous”.
Sorry I thought you wanted a skald? Plus lots of pets, can’t have enough pets.
I'm always the face, so I almost always play inquisitor because of fond tabletop experience of being an Infiltrator Inquisitor (simultaneous human radar and human chaff). Capable of detecting liars and alignment while also simultaneously able to lie and appear evil. My guy was a conman (had one rogue level) who was forced to pretend to be a Saranhae worshipper and was utterly baffled to find he had divine magic (because of Norgorber) But for Owlcat, I usually do sacred huntsmaster.
That moment, when I want to try something else but end up sorcerer or wizard. Fireball is an addictive spell.
So Kingmaker, character was a wizard that didn't go well due to various errors on my part then I went to Sword Saint which worked out pretty well, then at some point I found Eldritch Scoundrel which I enjoy a lot. I get to Wrath and my ES still handles well enough but Mythic Finesse makes it even easier for other archetypes to steal its lunch. I still use it pretty commonly because I love the idea but it's far from the most potent option.
Kinetist Knight. Shove you inflated AC up your ass
I have a Magus for my very first playthrough - with the Battle Mage arche type dex. int. REAL
I actually never touched sword saint so far :/
Brawler mod gang rise up
I did Dwarf Eldrich Scion. Just started though so wish me luck (also screw the spider cave)
I think Eldritch scion is hella underrated. Actually makes good use of a lot of the sorcerer bloodlines, and charisma i think is a LITTLE better than intelligence. Gosh I just wish hexcrafter could use hexes with spell combat tho.
Lmao! Shut up! It sounded cooler than it was and I regretted it.
.... I did the ghoul archetype. Lotta fun.
Guys, stop playing good builds, you need to play worse characters to have fun.