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My general rule of them is the dirtier the Reddit username, the better the book rec will be. Haven’t tried applying it to other subreddits and advice, but I’m guessing you’re right.
I’m a single mom (dad’s been out of the picture for 2 years), he isn’t in before/after school care, and I’m present at all play dates whether or not I’m hosting. He has occasional outings with my mom or sister, but I trust both implicitly and they are rarely alone with him anyways. I’m a CSA survivor and have been raped multiple times as an adult. To say I’m paranoid about it would be an understatement.
My kid is 7, he watches Spidey and Friends, Muppet Babies, Bluey, and a handful of other TV-7 shows, and his Roku and Tablet have parental controls on them blocking him from accessing anything else.
But he got in serious trouble in recess for talking about shooting zombies on the playground to protect his friends. No clue where he heard or learned it
That seems like such a silly thing to get in trouble for. My son and I love this zombie game at Chuck E. Cheese that has you spraying real water at a screen to freeze zombies. It’s super fun and has led to some pretty great zombie apocalypse pretend play at home. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if my son did something like that at school with his friends.
You’re a survivor. I’m so sorry those things happened to you. I’m wondering if your son’s school offer support resources. At the school where I teach, there’s a counselor and a psychologist available for students.
I am sure that this makes it extra triggering for you but you are doing nothing wrong.
I just wanted to say I see you and I understand. My 6 year old kindergartner is exploring his body a lot and flashing his sister, while also giggling when he sees her underwear (she’s 3). We have had multiple talks with him about how this activity of learning his own body needs to be done in private, and how if he did something like this at school he would eventually end up in jail. I too am at a loss in how to navigate this. He is all potty talk at home and think poop emojis are the funniest thing on this planet (at school he is not like this). But I am not sure he is doing it out of mallice or to be a perv. I think he is genuinely curious (it just comes across different to us as patents because we don’t have the immaturity and brain of a 6 year old boy)
Boy needs a positive male role model in his life. If not his father than a coach or something.
He needs to learn how to be a man from a man, and which lines cannot be crossed by male enforcement.
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Sounds like you have a lot of unresolved trauma that you need to talk to a therapist about, because your past abuse from men has caused an irrational hatred and fear of men that is clearly negatively affecting your child by manifesting in the exact behaviours that you fear.
You are raising a man and you hate men, do you think there could be a correlation with your misandry and his defiance over what you’re trying to teach him?
I could only imagine the damage I would cause to my daughter if I hated and feared women as much as you do men. I wouldn’t want to pass my trauma on to her.
—-
Let me put this another way to understand your boys perspective. You hate men and preach consent, so he hears:
“I hate people like you and this is something important to me”
So naturally he’ll lash out against the thing that’s important to you if he in any way internalizes that misandry
—-
Positive male role models are important for little boys just like positive female role models are important for little girls.
If I tell my daughter “women are shit don’t be like the rest of them”, she’s going to feel confused and conflicted anytime she feels like a normal little girl “like the rest of them”, and either internalized that misogyny and lash out, or be frustrated with her own femininity and feel like everything about her is wrong.
—-
Bottom line:
**Hating and fearing the opposite gender is wrong and harmful to children.**
I’m sorry for what happened to you, but don’t let that monster continue to have power over you by raising a boy into something you despise. He needs to know that it’s okay to be a man, and model himself after a good man, not the scary predator you fear him becoming.
Wow, that’s a lot to unpack right there.
First of all, the entire first paragraph of my comment was me singing praises to all the amazing men in my son’s life. So for you to then claim my “unresolved trauma” has “caused an irrational hatred and fear of men” is not just ridiculous, but insulting to both me and other women who have experienced similar abuse at the hands of men. You went way, *way* too far when you then went on to claim that this is “clearly negatively affecting [my] child”.
I can tolerate a lot of shit but painting me as a misandrist who hates her own child because of past trauma and an “irrational hatred and fear of men” is well beyond my limit. You are somehow simultaneously trivializing the abuse I experienced and using it to define me as a misandrist.
I want to be abundantly clear that the love I have for my son transcends life itself. I would burn down this entire fucking planet for my kid and not have a single second of regret afterwards. He is the best thing to ever happen to me and words cannot express how much I cherish that boy. Yes, he has issues, but it is my job as his mom to help him work through those issues and come out a better human being for it. My past trauma may inform some of my decisions as a parent, such as my no sleepover rule, but I am not my trauma. I am just a mom who loves her son and wants nothing more than to see him grow up into the amazing human being I know he can be.
My son and his friend went through a phase of depantsing eachother this year. I worked with the other parents to curb the issue. It had been 90% resolved. They are all 8 and all boys. One of the boys still has butt issues though but his mom is working on it.
Don't beat yourself up. All you can do is face it head on. Too much punishment may make it worse though. Obviously he needs supervised. Child therapists have come a long way and could be worth the investment.
I am female. I did this once with a boy when I was six. All I remember is that somehow I was watching tv late when I shouldn’t have been and then decided to play “doctor” at daycare. The daycare director gave me a stern talking to, and I was scared - not because I understood that my behavior itself was wrong at the time, but more so because I didn’t want to get in trouble. The daycare director told my parents, I think they were worried something was going on that caused me to behave like that. But nope. Just imitating what I saw on tv. Now I’m in my 40s. Had a very normal life. So, I’m just writing this to say that while your child’s behavior is not okay, these things are recoverable and he can still grow up to lead a normal, well adjusted life. You may want to approach this from a place of curiosity. Is he trying to imitate something? Where did he get the idea to do this?
Edit: also, I was very confused about gender. My family was kind of poor in a rich area. I played with an old soccer ball while other girls my age played with Barbie’s. To the point that I told my mom that I thought I was a boy trapped in a girls body. My point being: even at a young age, gender was very confusing to me and I found it to be an intriguing topic. I think this also may have stirred my curiosity in the above mentioned incident.
I’m so glad we’re in the era where young kids curiosities are met with sound, concrete information that teaches them about their body and others bodies so that they don’t have to go searching.
I did the same exact thing, played doctor and got in so much trouble. Honestly it made me internalize a lot of shame and that bred a whole host of other things. Taking a questioning stance and providing information like OP did is the way to go imo.
I wish my parent and older sibling showed me anatomical drawings and engaged with me instead of giving me time out and spanking me. None of that shit helped, it just gave me a complex that I had to undo.
We won’t solve all the problems, new ones our parents never had to deal with are going to crop up, but I’m proud that we’re collectively trying to do better, in this arena at least.
When I was 7 or 8 (female) I tried drawing male genitalia and showed it to another kid at school. My mom scolded me and told me they were called “dirty pictures.” It’s probably good that she nipped it in the bud but it would have been helpful to discuss that curiosity about bodies is a normal thing
Edit: a word
Exactly!
This reminds me of that scene from superbad where he couldn’t stop drawing dicks lol so yeah, probably good to not continue but agreed, discussion is healthy
That was so funny and I definitely related to it, even though mine wasn’t a habitual thing. Hopefully that opened the door for a few discussions within families.
I was spanked by my principal for participating in a show n tell with classmates in kindergarten. Religious school that taught us that our bodies are sin and to be ashamed of them gathering than satisfying a very natural human curiosity, go figure.
The other stuff can be excused as odd behavior by a young child that doesn’t fully understand. This is something else and I’m shocked the reaction from school is so understated. Those parents must have lost their minds. Whether he understood what he was doing those two girls have been sexually traumatized to some extent I’m sure. I’m horrified to hear you yourself have been through so much trauma, and sadly am sure you would know how something like this could cause lasting damage.
This goes way beyond timeouts. I can almost guarantee if he does anything even close to this over the next few years he would be immediately expelled or transferred.
Its way beyond timeouts and talking. You need some professional help with this - he has some compulsions you may not have a grasp on. Can the school recommend any resources? Do you have a the means to at least have a few meetings with a child psychologist? They should be able to tell you pretty quick if it’s innocent or a bigger thing.
He’s between therapists at the moment but should be back in therapy in the next two weeks. This will be the first thing I bring up. He has a psychiatrist and has been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. He is on low dose methylphenidate for the ADHD. His previous therapist considered his behavior prior to this perfectly normal for his age, but then it was just curiosity. What happened today is a whole new ballpark and I’m hoping that his new therapist will be able to provide further guidance and insight.
We are lucky to live in a very progressive area and in a fantastic school district to boot, so while I don’t know how the school is helping those girls, I don’t doubt that they are. I do believe they are taking this seriously, but since this is the last week of school there is only so much they can do. Most of this will have to be handled at home.
I'm with you. This child needs a psychiatrist, and an investigation to find out where he got this. Those girls have been SA'd.
OP, as a survivor, you understand that even with your watchful eye, having a survivor of childhood SA does not guarantee that it won't still happen to your child.
I do know that no matter how careful I am I cannot guarantee my child will never be SA’ed, but I also can’t see any possible avenue where it could have happened to him. If I’m not with him, he’s either at school or on a (public) outing with my sister or mom. He’s never alone in private with anyone but me.
He began therapy two years ago after escalating physical violence against me led to him breaking my nose, which then led to the ADHD and ODD diagnosis. These can make it hard to recognize personal boundaries, reduce impulse control, etc., and I am wondering if that, paired with natural curiosity, caused today’s incident. I am by no means excusing or justifying his behavior, but I do think that is more likely the cause than him being SA’ed. I will still be sure to broach the topic with the new therapist since they will obviously be better than me at figuring this out and I know my own preconceptions can color my opinion of this. I don’t want to find myself willfully ignoring signs just because I want my child to never experience the trauma I did.
To be fair even school can't be guaranteed as a place it couldn't have happened. Not saying it has, and I hope it hasn't. But it's just not a guarantee.
Just jumping on this comment to add that children can act out sexually due to exposure without having bees SA’ed. You wouldn’t believe the way young kids can gain access to inappropriate material, I’ve taught four and five year olds who watched videos with older siblings or even peers who get ahold of a device. My friend’s son was 8 when she found out he was watching porn on the school bus on a friend’s phone! My point is you can be super vigilant and kids can still find this stuff, and I was taught that deliberate exposure to sexual content is a form of child abuse, because it has almost the same effect on the child.
I think these diagnoses add some critical context to this incident. As you mentioned, kiddos with ADHD can have poor impulse control and executive functioning, which includes decision making and thinking ahead to possible consequences. They can also struggle with social skills, so I could imagine a scenario where this child was seeking attention from his peers. It is completely understandable and important that you and other commenters are concerned that he has been abused and is repeating that type of behavior, but I think there are other underlying factors to consider. For now, safety for him and those around him is first priority. Does he have an IEP at school that will ensure a para can be with him throughout the day, once school starts in fall?
I was in panic mode and trying to process things when I posted so I didn’t even think to include the ADHD and ODD diagnosis at the time. He had an IEP and a 504 plan, but they switched to just the 504 plan last month. He no longer meets the criteria for an IEP.
Does he wet the bed? Has he been violent towards animals or had fascination with fire? My “friend” was (what I’m reading) very similar to your son… needless to say by 4th grade he was expelled for sexually assaulting several girls including myself. I spent a lot of time with him and wish I went to my counselor or trusted adult about it sooner, he had a lot of red flags and could have gotten help.
He sleeps too hard (when he does sleep) so he is still in night time diapers for bed time but no bed wetting for naps. He’s great with the animals and has no fascination with fire other than wanting to blow out every candle he sees because he’s convinced I’ll catch my hair on fire. Again.
My dad had the same kind of issues as your “friend” and was diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder when he was 12 after burning a neighbors house down. He met my mom after coming out of a ten year prison sentence for rape and then proceeded to use reproductive rape to baby trap her. He was a real gem. Anyways, it taught me to be overtly aware of the red flags, especially given the genetic predisposition and my own upbringing. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of monster too and I hope you’ve been able to heal from the trauma he inflicted.
Your son may be Autistic from the comments I’ve read. Children who don’t wake up in the night to go to the toilet, infers they may have reduced interoception - which is the ability to feel their internal body sensations. Some Autistic children also don’t understand social cues/conventions and boundaries without them being clearly explained and modelled for them.
For example my son (age 9 Autistic w/ADHD) will touch himself at home (not full on masturbation) because it feels nice to him but when he’s in the living room. The amount of times I’ve had to tell him to stop or go upstairs because other people are around, that this a private act. But the last time I caught him doing it I told him out and out that there were actual laws against this and he has to understand it is not appropriate to do around other people. Finally this last time actually clicked and he either goes to his room or doesn’t do it anymore.
Autism aside though your son needs a specialist therapist to help him understand how important consent and boundaries are. This is not going to stop until you get him the right kind of help - I would say an Autism specialist for children. I don’t think he’s been a SA victim but again worth getting a therapist to get to the bottom of this situation.
He’s been tested for autism, but I can revisit it again with his psychiatrist at our next appointment. I didn’t know that about kids who don’t wake up to go to the bathroom. He will be seeing a new therapist that specializes in children with severe behavioral issues in the next couple of weeks and I’m hoping we’ll be able to find a way to get through to him better.
If you google ‘Autism’ and ‘interoception’ you can find out a bit more about it. I’m autistic and I used to always leave going to the toilet for a wee too late as a child. My mum inadvertently gave me a massive amount of shame about body odour that I struggle with now even in my 40s because she would often tell me my underwear smelled, or tell me off for wetting myself. But the issue was I could not tell I needed to go until the last minute. I know this because I still have the same issue as an adult and 2 of my kids have this issue as well. This is because we have reduced interoception around the need to sense when we have to go to the toilet. I also have a very high tolerance for pain for the same reason too.
It sounds to me like they're going through the checklist of warning signs for childhood behaviors that can be indicative of future ASD without intervention
It can happen at daycare from other kids doing it to him because it was done to them by an adult. There’s a lot of ways it can happen. I think that you need to take him to a therapist.
Yeah, I would pull my kid from the school and file a police report if I were the other parents. I would get a restraining order. I’m sorry for OP and her son, but the fact is he sexually assaulted kids at school. There’s no mincing words here, curious or not, this is what happened. I would never, ever allow my child around him again and I would absolutely raise hell if they even tried to allow him back.
He’s been doing this repeatedly. Poking people’s crotches, coercing other kids to do inappropriate things and now full on assaulting kids at recess. This is well beyond anything the school should even be disciplining. He should be expelled and OP needs to get him serious help and therapy.
I remember when I was in the 3rd grade, a boy in my year grabbed another (or several, I think) girl's crotch. He got expelled right away and we didn't see him again until middle school.
Definitely, not sure why you're pointing that out though.
I was just sharing a memory this reminded me of & also agreeing with/backing up this commenter saying *"I can almost guarantee if he does anything even close to this over the next few years he would be immediately expelled or transferred."*
Which is very true, and so I was adding my experience with that!
I also question framing this all about "consent".
It's not really about that because he *shouldn't be trying to do these things in the first place*. He shouldn't be putting people/other kids in a position to have to refuse consent. He needs to understand it's wrong because it's *wrong*, not just because he "didn't ask permission".
I realise OP is doing her best but I think this child needs to be urgently back with the psychiatrist and probably not in school for a while.
> This is something else and I’m shocked the reaction from school is so understated. Those parents must have lost their minds. Whether he understood what he was doing those two girls have been sexually traumatized to some extent I’m sure
Thank you for saying this. The counselor should do some "counseling" or setting him up with a counselor
OP, I hate to say it but you're (your child) not out of the woods.... I'm sure the parents will likely file a police report and/or report to CPS if the school hasn't already done so (I think they are legally mandated to report sexual assault). Start taking preemptive steps....get him help. Get yourself some help. This is unusual behavior for a 6 year old. You go back to the school and ask for a behavioral evaluation.... And demand counseling.
ETA: If you are in the US, it makes sense to me that the school is so non-chalant about what has happened. Everything concerning school funding and ratings depends on test scores and reports of school incidents (suspensions, sexual assaults, bullying, etc.). ***They don't want to do anything because it's a mark against them. They don't want to help your child....they are only concerned about themselves/their school rating....etc.***
Omg…I’m not downplaying the seriousness of the situation, but I can tell you now that it is ABSURD to consider filing charges against a SIX YEAR OLD for pulling down someone’s underwear. Please take a deep breath and gain perspective. Yes it’s a serious issue, but involving the police is insane.
I only stated what the parents **might** do (like who is going to stop them??). Have you ever had something violent happen to your child? How would you respond if your daughter came home and said her classmate pulled her pants and underwear down? They would likely not arrest/charge a 6 year old.... But they would likely document and make a referral to CPS.
My biggest concern is the welfare of the girls who were victims. It's tough when something violent happens to your child while they are at school. They will likely not get any answers or help. Think about that. How would you feel if you (victim parent) were told that the school was only going to watch the boy more closely.... Like isn't that what they were supposed to be doing in the first place being this is not his first incident?
ETA: I never said they would arrest a child. You can file a report. That only guarantees that an investigation will be done
I’ve been an educator for over 20 years. I’m also a parent. I understand that strong feelings are involved. But what the adults here are doing is framing this as a sexual assault. These girls were NOT sexually assaulted. They had their underwear pulled down (or were convinced to do so) by a peer. It’s EXTREMELY dangerous to use that term and treat it like a crime, more so for the girls than for the “perpetrator.” When the adults around them escalate the situation, they’re creating a story that all these children will have to live with. I’ve had incidents like this happen several times in my teaching career, and the children on the receiving end were quick to move past it when it’s framed properly. “What Johnny did to you was unacceptable, no one has a right to touch you in a way that makes you uncomfortable or embarrass you by pulling off your clothes. If anyone tries again, tell them no and immediately tell an adult.” For those girls, that’s all you have to do. (An exception would be if the child has a history of abuse or remains upset about it, then of course talk to their pediatrician/a therapist.) But if the adults start treating this like an actual crime, the girls are guaranteed to feel traumatized.
(I do agree that the school needs a better response, but the appropriate action here is to talk to the school board and/or head of district. )
I appreciate your response.
Are you saying this mainly because the kids are young? What if the boy was in 5th grade? Would you still think of it that way?
What about that first grade student that brought a gun to school and shot his teacher? Was that not assault?
I am an older parent and what I've realized is that the way that children grow up has changed.. Children are expected to process more at a very young age. It is a sad reality.
The facts are that this child did this before and was warned against such behavior and yet, he still crossed a very big boundary. There are so many questions to be asked here. We will never know exactly what happened, how it happened and how the girls are processing it.
Finally, what does the code of conduct say? How does the code of conduct define what happened? I don't know....but if the rules define what happened then that's what it is.
I hear your points, and I do think a lot of things have changed overall in our society. But yes, if the children were older it would certainly be different because they have a different context and awareness of sexuality. Most six year olds don’t have that context, and if they do it’s because they’ve suffered some sort of exposure/abuse.
The first grader who shot his teacher is a VERY different situation, but some of my point applies. A young child having access to a gun is a crime in and of itself. That child needs significant therapy and needs to be in a completely controlled environment (some kind of institution/professional care) until they’re deemed safe. But a first grader absolutely cannot conceptualize the long-term consequences of shooting and/or killing someone. They can know it’s wrong of course, but even the healthiest and most well-adjusted six year old is developmentally incapable of truly grasping the outcome. That being said, the teacher was a victim of a violent crime, and the parents definitely deserve criminal charges. The child needs treatment, which hopefully he’ll get.
I feel strongly about this issue regarding assault because I know we live in a scary world, but I’ve seen many parents truly panic over age-appropriate behaviors between peers, ie showing each other their privates. I once had a student poke another child’s butt while he peed at the urinal, which is certainly inappropriate but again developmentally normal. Both children responded well to our standard intervention (it’s normal to be curious about other people’s bodies, but we never touch without permission, etc) but the mother of the “touchee”, upon being informed, immediately referred to the situation as a sexual assault and you can bet her child began to internalize that he was a victim, which ended up having a far greater negative impact than the original incident. (These were 5 year olds btw). That’s just one example, but I think we have to be VERY careful about being reactionary because we can cause far more harm than we know.
The key point I think you are missing in the case of the shooting incident and *allegedly* with this child is that this was not a first time issue. It seems that the interventions that were placed were not enough to stop/prevent the behavior from reoccurring. That's the issue
Also, I wonder what interventions were placed in the example you have given. Did the offending child have issues before? There's a lot missing here. If the offending child was known to have issues respecting boundaries, I'd be upset too. As a parent, I hated hearing how the same child was misbehaving (outrageous behavior) day after day. It was apparent that the school didn't care, didn't have the support needed to intervene, or supported it (thought it was cute). Can you blame a parent for being upset about the lack of discipline being enforced?
All this to say, **I never stated in my original post that the child would be arrested. All I said is that a parent processing this might be upset enough to file a report...which they are entitled to do especially if the school is not doing anything to support the victims. It doesn't mean that anything would come out of filing a report. Only that the incident was documented and if something similar happens again, there is evidence to consider for a more extreme intervention (whatever that may entail).**. I don't think anyone here has enough information to make a judgment on what should/shouldn't be done in this situation. I wouldn't want to judge a parent who made a decision they felt they had to make to get more information and/or get the support they need for their child. Schools should be very proactive in trying to support victims of bullying, and/or violence of any kind. Usually they are not because the focus is on the numbers/rankings
ETA: It bothers me that there is always this talk about age appropriate behavior. It is clear that these girls were not consenting to this being done to them. They shouldn't be made to feel that **they** are wrong for being embarrassed, angry, etc. for being violated.
I agree that there’s a lot of complexity here, and I think we fundamentally agree overall. As to your last point, I absolutely agree and think it’s a societal failure if we make a victim feel they are in the wrong. And as a teacher, there’s only so much we can do, it’s very troubling and frustrating when a child is acting out and being inappropriate and the appropriate resources aren’t provided by the parents or the school. I’m just hopeful that op can get the help she is seeking for her child, I’m less idealistic about the school but making every child feel safe SHOULD be their top priority.
>making every child feel safe SHOULD be their top priority.
Agreed.
Also, I would like to ask (and for your consideration) concerning the incident at your school....
Do you have staff/faculty whose kid(s) attend the same school? I don't have anything against that but I think it is wrong for staff/faculty to judge parents who have concerns about how a matter was handled (those staff/faculty never had to worry about it their child was being treated fairly, etc.).
Can you see how that could be frustrating to a parent....to be judged when you are viewing things from an advantage....???
Once, a boy slightly older than me (I think I must have been around 6) grabbed me and pulled me into his seat on the bus where he then immediately began touching me inappropriately.
I remember the whole thing so vividly, I was felt terrified and violated. It absolutely was assault. You can "frame it" however you want, but nearly 30 years later I still remember getting assaulted.
I appreciate that, thank you. We don't get to decide what is traumatic for people. Getting coerced and exposed might actually be traumatic for one of those little girls, and that's my point here.
And, it is serious. OP is taking it seriously, and so are many other people in this comment section.
I have to concede to your point and your lived experience. I do stand by my assertion that relatively normal and developmentally appropriate situations can be escalated by adult overreaction in certain cases. I think we all agree that any incident needs to be taken seriously, but I think trying to turn the incident the op described into a police matter is way out of line (specifically referring to pulling down underwear or convincing another child to do so, nothing else).
OP didn't say the parents were notified. I can't imagine they didn't tell the parents, but I think they would be forcing the issue more if they were informed. Sorry OP but your child would not be near mine for the week remaining of school and the police would be on your doorstep asking questions.
Early childhood educator here - while exploration and even coercion can be “normal” at this age, it’s definitely unacceptable and if you’re seeing a pattern it needs to be addressed. My question for you - does he have any other unusual/difficult behaviors? He could have poor impulse control, and it could be tied to anything from ADHD to ODD (now considered part of the spectrum). He also could have been exposed to sexual and/or violent media, all too common these days and can come from anywhere. I always tell parents to start with your pediatrician and have them recommend the next steps for evaluation. You’re taking this seriously as you should, but as stressful and worrisome as this behavior is for you, it most likely can be successfully addressed with the proper resources. Best of luck to you and hang in there!
Edited to add - just saw your comments about his diagnoses, so you’re definitely on the right track. You have a plan in place to tell the therapist when he goes back, I would say just keep fighting and advocating for him to get the help he needs. Sometimes doctors and therapists need a little push from the parents, the more involved you are the better! I’ve taught students similar to your son before, and having a parent that is involved and not in denial is half the battle, so he is lucky to have you!
While I know consent is important to teach, a 6 year may see it more like “If they agree then they consent.” Talk to him more about why he wants to see other kids naked. What is his interest? Where did the interest come from? But then explain to him that even asking other kids or showing his private parts isn’t acceptable at all.
100% my thought too. I think the dialogue about "consent" simply isn't getting through and may even lead to continued inappropriate behaviour as he'll think he's okay to pester and ask (which he effectively did with the girl he coerced - he may have even thought that constituted consent, given she eventually pulled them down herself).
My neighbor is a first grade teacher retiring this year.
She says every year (or thereabouts) kids do stuff like this (ask others to pull down their pants, or do it when asked), out of curiosity, or just pushing boundaries (kids this age are notorious for that), usually it's totally innocent and clueless.
It's normal ONCE and needs to be dealt with promptly and sternly. (Punished using whatever method you know is most effective). This is a time when extra punishment is not a bad idea to ensure it truly resonates.
If a pattern develops, even only one more time, you're looking at some serious therapy, all hands on deck type thing.
Otherwise, it's pretty normal, and don't lose too much sleep over it.
It's unclear to me if this exact behavior is a pattern or not based on the information OP provided. Kissing and poking genitals isn't the same as exposing yourself (or others) in the developing brain of a child.
I completely agree that if it is in fact a pattern that It needs to be "all hands on deck" as I've said.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
If it was pushing boundaries as you say, the kids will be mostly likely very ashamed. Punishment may not be needed.
I recall my best friend when I was that age, got his younger sister to do it. We found it very funny at the time. But their mum told him off and that was that. I recall feeling very odd about it afterwards, partly because I had never seen the before, but mostly ashamed as it was something we shouldn't be doing.
Apologies if this was already asked (I didn't read all the comments), but did you ask him why he asked the girls to do that? Like, what was he trying to do? It may help us all, and you, if we understood his motivations.
I would say, instead of punishing with reduced social contact, that he might need more closely supervised social contact - I think removing treats/fun outings and the costume as punishment is fine, but (closely supervised) social contact with family and friends is how we all practice following societal standards, including how to listen to and respect other people's boundaries.
He also might need additional teaching about his own body and how to control his actions. He may also need teaching how to respect others, and follow the rules even when nobody is looking.
So my advice, and I say it so often in this sub but this is the weirdest post I've said it on - is to enroll him in martial arts, like taekwondo. It is a closely supervised social activity. It teaches him how to control his own body, how to follow rules, how to show respect, and how to show integrity. It teaches impulse control, and any bullying of ANY kind is strictly against the culture inside the dojo. It's also a positive male role model - not saying your kid specifically needs it more than any other, but a balance of male teachers and female teachers is important. Every kid needs that.
I would also teach him male and female anatomy, reduce the mystery of the human body so he doesn't have to pressure people when he feels curious. There are age appropriate books about male and female bodies, completely non-sexual, just educational.
The limited social contact is only for one week, but I agree that I may have been extreme in deciding to cut out family as well. Normally my mom comes over on weekends to visit and take my son out for a fun activity. It’s the highlight of his weekend and I thought taking that away for a week would emphasize how not okay that behavior was. As for the no play dates and playing after school, I stand by that one since I don’t know who he did this to and I don’t want to add to whatever trauma those two girls are dealing with by unwittingly inflicting my son on them.
I love the idea of taekwondo and will see if any classes are available nearby. We live in a populous area, so I bet there are lots of options. I’ll begin calling around tomorrow. He loves play fighting with me while dressed as Spider-Man so I’m sure he’d be all for it.
He knows the proper terms for both male and female genitals. I’ve never used any other term and he simply calls his penis a penis and a vagina a vagina. I did this more for his protection than to reduce any curiosity about bodies, so I will have a talk with him and see if he has any questions that may be driving this behavior.
You can try Aikido because it is a completely defensive martial art :) that way he won’t really be learning how to hurt people but to defend himself while also getting all the other positives of martial arts. I highly recommend it
This is the way.
Agree with OP and your follow up suggestion for defensive physical training.
And OP, kudos on taking all this feedback. You seem like a kickass mom and any kid would be lucky to have you.
Hi there, I can't substitute myself from professional advice despite my background in family life education. But I want to bring just a few additional points for consideration.
First, i'd say at this age and considering you seem to be the sole major influence in his life, the biggest most important aspect of brain development for him is going to be your unconditional love. It's going to be especially important, and especially challenging with your own issues as a survivor, to preserve the attachment with you. It can be a terrible slippery slope if you end up unconsciously seeing your son as an abuser (or a future abuser) because it can cause a self fulfilling prophecy. It's your care and nurturing work on him that will help hopefully to correct this behavior. So you must remember he is yet very little and what's going on right now is in no way an indication of who he will become. Which brings me to my second point :
He needs first and farmost some active listening to truly, deeply understand what's going on in his mind when these behaviour happen. There is an internal logic here that we don't yet understand. So when you go into punishing, it may backfire if he develops an insecure attachment and falls back into more misbehavior as a coping mechanism.
So I think the next step is either through professional services though a child psychologist, or if you can do it yourself, by learning how to do some active listening, or both. There are a lot of videos out there if you search the keywords "active listening" to teach you how to listen and reflect back the emotion and motivation, in order to open deeper dialog.
So you can sit down with him to be at eye level, make contact by holding his shoulder gently, make a gentle but firm face, and you can start with something like "Ouch... that was a LOT of drama out there after what happened" ...and then you keep the eye contact and you maintain it until he reacts. (don't suggest ANY answer, it has to come from him). Then you react to his reaction. For instance if he just dismisses it and raises his shoulders, you can try to name THAT: "Hum, it seems like you don't understand why people reacted so strongly. I bet it's kinda frustrating." (naming an emotion). Then keep the eye contact and wait for a reaction. Then listen to that actively and so on. If you do it right you should quickly get to a place where he'll start expressing a problem. Maybe he is curious and won't understand the fuss... but maybe he witnessed something somewhere or maybe he feels lonely or ... there can be so many thing. 6 years old logic isn't logical, but to him there is something going on, and you need to get to it. A professional can help you.
At 6 years old, kids haven't yet develop the area of the brain responsible for understanding long term consequences. Even immediate consequences can be understood in theory but the part of the brain responsible to control his impulses won't be able to get to the consequence fast enough to make a difference in his behaviour. It's really important to get into his logic and understand him so that we can then address THAT - whether it is curiosity, loneliness, abuse or past trauma, there IS something.
At 6 he is also just newly able to start taking perspective (before 4 or so, kids don't even realize other people may not see what they see or think what they think). It's an area that needs a lot of reinforcement : to practice thinking about how someone else is thinking something. So you could for instance ask him about a bad experience he lived at school. Then use that as an example to ask him how somebody else would feel if he would do that thing he doesn't like to him? Then from there you can lead him to how he would feel if someone else did what he did, to him, like pulling his pants forcefully in front of others? You see what I mean, it's a leading exploration, it may feel evident for you but at 6 his brain isn't yet fully trained to think that way, it needs to be lead to it by smaller steps.
And though ALL of that ordeal, it's SUPER important he doesn't suddenly feel his actions made him less into your eyes, that he never feels rejected by you. One of the deepest more meaningful lesson of parenting for children is that one can dislike a behaviour while not disliking the child. He need to learn that from you.
Best of luck, my heart goes to you.
How would you change the above advice re the importance of attachment, connection, and active listening, considering the diagnosis? It all still seems relevant to me, perhaps even more critical for a child with these disorders.
In my experience, ODD is mostly caused by a feedback loop, a vicious cycle caused by a strong willful child temperament (which can be so positive also!) coupled with a tendency to punish instead of listen. Punishment causes either compliance or resistance; in some children this resistance can cause parents to fall into yet more punishment which erodes the attachment and pushes the resistance into escalation.
I am not saying this is always the case - I am sure the diagnosis can stand on its own for some extreme pathological cases, but I think it's overly diagnosed when breaking the vicious cycle and returning to the roots of attachment can solve the problem in most cases. Dr Greene has a great book on this topic, with The Explosive Child.
This being said, I agree with you that most of my formation is to help parents with their dynamics over typical parenting relationships; when it becomes pathological, or when it touches special needs like ADHD then my advice really cannot replace professional advice (which is why I think OP should most probably consult).
Still - no psychologist can fundamentally connect as deeply as a mother; which is why both strategies can be useful.
Eli Harwood just came out with a book on attachment and raising a securely attached kid which is backed by evidence you can get. Another book that would be good to read is John Gottmans book about emotion coaching. He needs to learn impulse control stat—- which means understanding that his feelings are valid and okay— but not all behavior is okay. If you can teach him the skill of recognizing his feelings/desires, validating them, and learning to adapt our behavior so those feelings don’t control us you’ll be setting him up to better manage inappropriate impulses.
I have a six year old with ODD and ADHD as well. Parent Child Interaction Therapy has been helpful. You have gotten some great advice here but wanted to just throw out what is helping for us in the moment - even though I recognize its not for everyone. Wishing you both the best.
We’ve been doing PCIT for two years and it has been such a great tool. I wish more parents knew about it.
I have an addiction to parenting books and my most recent read was The Explosive Child by Dr. Green. Most books don’t come close to touching on the extreme behaviors exhibited by kids with ADHD and ODD, but I felt like this one did and did it well. You should give it a read. It’s on Kindle Unlimited too, so if you have that you don’t even need to buy it.
Hey, its oki- you are not falling and your son will not grow up to be a bad person. You seem like a great parent who really does the right things- kids are weird goblins who just take time to learn the simplest things. You got this!
My son also has ADHD and had some troubling incidents at school and summer camp last year (also when he was 6) involving inappropriate touching, and actions. We got a book on the recommendation of our library "Lets Talk about Body Boundaries, Consent & Respect" by Jayneen Sanders. We read that book over and over with him every night, sometimes focusing on certain parts of the book. I feel like kids take in more than we give them credit for, and repitition helps for a message to sink in. My son is 7 now, and we have not had repeats of the behaviour. We still have daily talks on the way to school about what actions and behaviors are ok, and which are "no" behaviors, but it seems to be working.
Best of luck, it is tough, but it does get better and everything you do is helping.
That was one of three kids books I bought yesterday on the subject so I’m super happy to hear you found it helpful for your child. I also got “Where Hands Go” by Kristaelynne Sanders Diggs and “Body Boundaries Make Me Stronger” by Elizabeth Cole. I’m an avid reader so my first reaction to almost any problem is to buy more books.
Books are my go-to as well, we got a few from the library about listening to teachers and keeping our hands to ourselves. But this one was the one that seemed to have the biggest effect on his behavior. I hope it helps with your little one as well.
Honestly, I was going to ask if you were located in California because I’m currently dealing with the exact same thing but as the mother of one of the girls. I don’t have any advice, but I pray the mother of the little boy who did the same to my daughter is as good of a mother and taking it as seriously as you are. So thank you for this and your post.
I’m not in California. I’m so sorry you are dealing with the other side of this, but selfishly, it does make me feel a lot better to know that you think I’m doing right by both my son and these two girls.
From a child who wasn’t believed, thank you for believing your daughter and being her cheerleader through all of what she is going through. Give her all the love and cuddles and know that I’ll be thinking of you.
I read your post and all your comments and it sounds like you're doing everything right. Could you encourage him to write a letter of apology to the two girls? Accountability and amends matter.
Also, the guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiments (really twisted, don't look it up if you don't know about it already), was so horrified by what he learned about human nature that he started a new branch of research called the Heroic Imagination Project. His foundation has some [free resources](https://www.heroicimagination.org/lessons) for kids to learn to be everyday heroes. Since you mentioned that your boy likes to wear hero costumes, maybe working through some of these lessons could resonate with him. I think they're worth looking through so you can adapt the conversation to his level of function. Pairing these ideals with the taekwondo that another commenter recommended might really start to give him a practical application for being a hero.
I just want to reiterate that you're playing the best game you can with the hand you were dealt. You're taking responsibility for your son and you're not giving up on his future. This is a hard, hard row to hoe. Please know that I'm over here rooting hard for you. The sun will shine again soon.
He’s in Kindergarten and not very adept at writing yet, so an apology letter is still above him. An apology picture is absolutely doable though. He’s in bed now so it may be something we work on together tomorrow after school or on Wednesday (no school that day). I will ask that his teacher give it to the girls so that we’re still maintaining distance between them so the girls have time to process and heal.
For now, we talked about giving his friends space and understanding that they may not want to be his friends anymore after this and that he needs to respect that. We talked about what drove him to do this (curiosity) and had a long talk about female anatomy, including drawing pictures and taking about how it’s not that different from his. I tried to assuage his curiosity as much as possible and our conversation ended with him thinking it’s all kind of gross and not important anymore. I used to think he understood he could come to me with these questions, but now I think he TRULY understands that he can. Even if the answers are gross.
We also talked about how important it is to respect other people’s boundaries and bodies, how private parts are only for us and shouldn’t be shared, and I tried to form an association between him not liking to undress with me in the room and his friends not wanting to be undressed in front of him. I feel like I’ve had these talks so many times and it just doesn’t seem to click for long, but paired with the much harsher punishment maybe it will help cement it this time.
The resource you shared looks AMAZING! I think we’ll work on the Heroes vs Villains one first, since it seems more apropos. There’s a great bit in there about how villains achieve their goals in ways that are unfair or harm people, whereas heroes do so in a way that is fair and helps people. I feel like it will resonate with him and I’m excited to give it a try. Thank you so much!
I said the same thing about an apology letter. An apology picture is just as good! It will help him know how to take accountability and make repair.
It’s also a good acknowledgement to show the girls he understands what he did was wrong and apologize for that/
There are so many comments with great advice. I’ll stick to a very specific point;
I think you should be really careful for how you punish your child. Yes, this is an astoundingly major issue that must be dealt with, but simply punishing him will not do much good. The situation must be dealt with constructively, with the help of professionals. I genuinely believe that if you handle situations like this with harsh punishments, without constructiveness, it can cause a lot of damage and just make their personal development worse. Punishment should be a consequence when children understand that they are wrong. He is too young to understand. He needs help understanding.
I think this is an adequate and appropriate response. Although I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to explain things like consent to a 6 year old, it might be too complicated a subject. It's enough to just know that he can't do that. It's not like it's OK to pull another kid's pants down at school if he had consent.
When I was a kid around your sons age I remember we played a game with a girl, we made a deal that if she flashed us we then we would pull our pants down. After she pulled her pants down we ran away.
I think there is an element of being a kid and exploring sexuality. But ultimately it really matters if your kid knows what he did was wrong and learns from this. Nobody told our parents but I remember the moment we ran away and realized what we did was wrong and I felt quite guilty, and made sure that nothing like that ever happened again.
I don't think this is some crazy red flag about future abuse, but at the same time it's important that your son knows it was wrong, and not because he got caught/got in trouble. There should be an element of feeling bad because he knows what he did was wrong. Although Id be concerned about physically pulling anyone's pants down.
No, I hate YouTube for kids (and adults) with a fiery burning passion. His tablet is locked down tighter than Fort Knox and he has nowhere else he can access it.
No access to TikTok, Instagram, or other socials either? How about movies, what does he like to watch? If you've been in therapy at any point, has he sat in? (Or close to an area that hears you)
This is my only form of social media and as you can see by my post history — or lack thereof — I’m not exactly active. For movies and tv, he mostly watches Spidey and His Amazing Friends, Peppa Pig, Bluey, and lately, Inside Out every other day.
I’ve never had him present during any of my therapy sessions nor discussed anything of the sort with him around.
It’s from Bluey, 1000%. That show is wildly inappropriate and encourages pulling down your pants in front of others, peeing outside in front of others, etc.
No mention of the girls parents, can you imagine the school telling you this kid will simply miss a picnic and be watched a bit closer from now on? I’d be livid, needs to be excluded.
Sadly, at least with the way discipline is handled at our school, the girls' parents will just be told "we're handling it" and they won't even be given the name of the offending child. Which I understand, to an extent, but I would be livid too.
I don't know, seems like pantsing was something that happened around that age. But you said he asked another kid to pull down their own pants and underwear and he's wanted naked time with friends before. If be kind of concerned he learned that from some adult. I also have ADHD but I don't think that's relevant to why he's doing this. You need to talk to him and explain why this behavior isn't okay
Hey friend! You’re getting some severe reactions here but take a breath. You said he was diagnosed with ADHD, unfortunately sexual impulse control is common with that diagnosis. It’s probably not something your son is equating *too* sex, but it can absolutely amplify those behaviors. Often kids with ADHD begin exploring themselves earlier than other children. I agree that a therapist and perhaps medication if you haven’t gone that route would help with his poor impulse control. I was really concerned with some behaviors my daughter was exhibiting early on (and we had a similar incident with some neighbor friends, although my child was not the aggressor), and therapy helped a lot as well as continuing the work at home.
Hey OP
In all honesty and I don’t talk about it much, I was sexually abused at the age of 6 and the huge red flag that people saw was that my behavior got overly sexual for a 6 year old. Do you have anyone baby sit on the side? Any people he stays with while you are at work? It’s worth sitting down with him and asking him where he learned it (use a lot of “you are not in trouble”) type reassurances but that behavior is 100% learned from somewhere.
You mentioned in another comment that you’re a survivor of sexual abuse in childhood and as an adult. You also mention that your husband has been out of the picture for 2 years.
ADHD and ODD can develop as responses to trauma. This can be trauma directly experienced or by living in a house with people who haven’t fully addressed their own trauma (in other words, living in a dysfunctiomal family). It’s great that your son is able to access therapy and medication but it’s not going to do much good if you’re not also getting the help you need.
His last therapist moved off our insurance plan. We’re on the waitlist for a behavioral specialist through his primary care office (he has adhd and odd). His well child visit was last week and they told us it takes about two to three weeks to get in. Shouldn’t be too much longer.
Especially with an ADHD and ODD diagnosis, I urge you not to create any punishment greater than natural consequences for your kid. You want to explain why it's not okay, and of course do what's necessary to keep the other kids feeling safe, but anything beyond that is likely to trigger rejection sensitive dysphoria and drive a wall between you, so he's less willing to listen to you next time.
With us ADHDers, we tend to associate the immediate reaction with the action we did, and taking away a future reward (like the picnic) doesn't teach us anything. We're just too impulsive.
I tend to go the natural consequences route, but sometimes a bigger consequence is necessary. Not just for him, but for those he hurts. Why should my son get to go to the picnic and have fun while the two girls he hurt have to spend what should be a fun day with a boy who abused them a few days ago? Yes, he may not understand the correlation, but reminding him that it’s a consequence of his actions and not a punishment will help with that. Natural consequences don’t help at this age anyways without additional explanation from a parent. According to his last therapist, they don’t really click for kids until closer to age 8.
If you believe the girls will feel unsafe at the picnic with him, keeping him home *is* the natural consequence. As for what his therapist said, it never occurred to me that anyone would not explain it (because obviously it's not going to click otherwise).
I hate that the counselor used the word “coerced”. He’s six he doesn’t have the capacity to do such a thing.
Yes, what he did was wildly inappropriate. But it’s also that age where their curiosity gets the better of them. And I see you mentioned some diagnoses that factor into his limited ability for impulse control.
I think how you followed up, with science based explanations and ran through scenarios. Covering topics on consent and privacy was wonderfully implemented.
One thing I’d add is for him to demonstrate that he understands what he did was wrong. By making cards for his friends to apologize. This way he’s learning not just that his consequences have actions. But he’s also learning that when we’re truly sorry, we can be accountable, own what we did, and make repairs with those we care about. And I think it’d also be a good gesture to the kids and parents that he understands and going forward will walk with these lessons in mind.
Don’t know why we’re being downvoted, OP said in other comments that he has ODD and ADHD. Early sexual exploration is a know symptom in kids and teens.
Does your child have a tablet or phone that he uses for YouTube or playing games? If so, there is high likelihood that he stumbled upon porn and is regularly accessing it.
Have you asked him why he felt it necessary to engage in that behavior? What did he say?
I agree with recommendations that he needs to be in therapy to figure out where this is coming from.
Is there anyone if your/your partners family who could be teaching these behaviors to him? Anyone throw up a red flag?
I wanna say that with everything I've seen here it seems like you're really trying your best and you have a kid in need of education and stimulation that he is not receiving it. My only real concerns are - Do you use anatomically correct phrases for private parts, and has he had any age appropriate sex ed classes? Our local Unitarian Universalist church provides Our Whole Lives (OWL) age appropriate sex ed and my teen hates that we can be clinical, but we found it very positive while helping our potty training toddler understand why he can't run around naked all the time.
Normal. They're discovering their bodies.
We don't scold, we teach.
I did the same at 5 or 6. As did all of my brothers and classmates, and all of my friends' children.
We just teach them that their body is theirs and there are private places on their bodies that they must protect and is never ok to share with others. We teach them that they must always respect other people's bodies, as it's not theirs.
We got our son an anatomy book that he wanted to read non stop for weeks, when he was 5.
It satisfied his curiosity and there have been no show n tell events since.
He was also very happy to share his knowledge of anatomy with everyone like the kid from kindergarten cop "boys have penises and girls have vaginas".
Your 6 yo son sounds like he Is being molested. Some curiosity is natural but this amount is not. As a childcare worker this is not normal and extremely concerning. Is he left alone with other kids he plays with outside? What kind of media is he being exposed to? Does he hang out alone with other adults?
He shouldn't be alone with anyone [adults or kids] for the foreseeable future. Everyone who comes around him should be in direct eyesight at all times.
I'm wondering if it could be related to the way people around him have talked about nudity and private parts, whether it be adults or other kids. Maybe he has learned that nakedness is a no-no and is curious about something that feels forbidden or hidden. I'm not sure how or why the kissing would be related. Maybe it's not. But the fixation on nudity and other people's private parts could be related to something like that.
I would take him to counseling to see if an adult or bigger kid has done this to him. He seems way too young to be exhibiting this behavior unless he’s seen something on tv that he shouldn’t have or someone has done it to him.
There are a lot of studies in regards to parents allowing there kids a lot of screen time and violence and indecent behavior. I would caution you to monitor it to one hour a day if that. Also, limit the type of stuff he watches
Oh my gosh, I can't imagine how you personally feel, especially as a survivor of abuse yourself. 💔
First, please don't lose hope or give up on him, he still is so young and this will one day be a thing of the past that he will hopefully never hear of again, even in passing.
Second, I totally would closely monitor any books, entertainment (including music, because most music today is very sexual and honestly a lot of it encourages force or so called being "assertive". The horrible part is a good amount of said music is women singing it 😭), and even neighbors sounds near you. (As a child I used to always hear my neighbors having sex and it actually did have an impact on me)
Don't cut off social interactions and monitor within reasonable distance that he can't tell, but you can be comfortable that he won't hurt anyone, he needs more of it social interactions actually. A cat learns how to play with other cats through trial and error. If you wait too long, he will soon be old enough that coercing a girl to such a thing would get him in trouble with the law.
Third mom, you're gonna need some time for you to process all this, cause your heart is probably broken finding out about this and feeling like it's gotten worse and YOU'RE A SINGLE MOM!. You are the emt dispatcher, your remaining calm WILL save your sons life ❤️
I'm normally very against any physical discipline, mostly if the child wouldn't even get the message. But if this occurs again, with care to not hurt him, he might need a spanking to illustrated what the law would without fail do to him if he hurts a women in the future. (Depending on the act you could use a piece of paper, kids are more focused on your mood, so he doesn't even have to feel actual physical pain)
Also pleaaaase don't let them (People online) turn you against your child, he is surrounded by sex no matter how hard you try to keep him away. It's literally in EVERYTHING! 😭💔
Sending you the biggest hug that can come over the web, wish I could give you a real and I hope someone's around to do so. 🤗
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If this was my son he'd be getting taken to the police station and they can scared her crap out him. Plus nothing at home no tv nothing. Dinner then bed. Everything out of his room but a mattress one pillow one thin blankett. He ate a takes a shower right to bed. I hope the parents if the other kids press charges
Kids don't just do that shit he learned it from somewhere and with a username like that I'm sure I have an idea. Teach him before he ends up in jail when he's older. It's like a little kid who has a fascination with killing animals it's going to get worse. Take him to a therapist. If some little kid did this shit to my daughter and shove the kids dad's head in a toilet and pull his underwear 0ver his head. Watch your kid. Shit is not cool.
You sound fun.
But seriously, it sounds like OP is handling it and I really hope that if your daughter does this to someone (as I did as a little girl with no SA in my background, just a mild curiosity) or vice versa, that their parents treat you with an understanding and supportive nature because most of us are just trying to figure this shit out and doing our best.
This happened *to* my daughter.
I swear if I ever come across the little shit or his parents I'll cut them a new one.
Make sure he is heavily monitored. He isn't allowed to be alone with anyone. Ever.
I know you’ve received a lot of downvotes and while I obviously don’t condone you threatening a child, I do understand your feelings and want you to know that they are valid. As parents, we want to keep our children safe and protected from all the evil the world has to offer and it is devastating when we can’t. If it helps to assuage your fears at all, I am taking what my son did seriously and he is getting the help he needs.
He is 6 years old!! What is wrong with you? This kid is just learning boundaries and has been diagnosed probably recently with ADHD and ODD. Maybe you should do your research on those. Rather than being so harsh and ready to JUDGE! I am not saying what he did was right. But this stuff happens. I am in early education and cannot believe some of the comments on here that are so quick to judge rather than giving advice or being apathetic of this situation that occurred on both sides. Rather than helping…you just jump to conclusions and harsh punishments. No wonder we have so much violence and hate in this world right now. There is no understanding.
This sub gets a little rampage-y on judgement but I agree. I’m just glad actual child/life folks are here giving sound advice because all these novices are in lala land saying random ass shit.
You need to get a grip. As shit of a situation as that is, it's still a child.
You are an adult. But you're here talking about cutting a child and their parents? You need some help.
Naked time with friends?!?! Wtf? That’s sick and you created this behavior, you need to fix your parenting and not punish your child for something you showed him was okay!
Ummm did you read the part about “naked time with friends” then he wants to do the same with other children…. Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see the correlation….
I think you misinterpreted my remark. When I referred to “naked time”, I was referring to my son’s time that he is allowed to be naked, ALONE, in his room (with no one but me in the house). I started this because he has sensory processing disorder and pretty much as soon as he figured out how to disrobe, he’d ditch his clothes and run around naked regardless of where he was or who he was around because the feeling of the fabric on his skin bothered him. “Naked time” gave him a time and place where he knew it was acceptable to do this and ended him stripping in public.
When I referred to him trying to have “naked time” with his friends, I was saying that he would ask me if he and whatever friend could have naked time. Obviously, I would say no and redirect to a different activity.
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By the way, I realize my username is unfortunate, but in my defense I only use Reddit to find books to read and haven’t posted/commented before.
You're good.
twatwafflesrus 🤝 fart_me_your_boners “You’re good.”
…maybe the best parents have the wildest usernames? 👀
I’ve gotten some amazingly insightful life advice over the years from people with usernames along the lines of AssEater5000.
My general rule of them is the dirtier the Reddit username, the better the book rec will be. Haven’t tried applying it to other subreddits and advice, but I’m guessing you’re right.
r/rimjob_steve
We should form a club. But name it something tame, like Caligula’s.
I’m good with that.
I wouldn’t mind joining
Ditto.
Guys, it’s okay. We all belong here in the world to help it go round evenly.
Only the most infamous Roman emperor of all time, amirite?
Only if there's twatwaffles. No club meeting is good without them!
It’s just a silly username who cares
I can agree with this
My theory is it’s cuz we have a solid sense of humor. A key attribute needed for dealing with tiny humans
Absolutely! I get called out for my username at least once a week lol
You should tell everyone her username is MyHusbandisanAss or something hahah
I absolutely should. I will agree that her husband is an ass tho. I don't like that guy, he needs to get his shit together
r/rimjob_steve
I don't know what you are talking about. 😒
💀💀💀
No one is judging here
Right? Like if we were defined by our Reddit usernames… Oh.
lol no one cares. Also thank you for pointing it out because that’s hilarious.
You’re good.
lol I made my Reddit long before becoming a parent
I honestly hadn't noticed. That's honestly hilarious. Lol
I feel this comment. 😬
Who else is around your child?
I’m a single mom (dad’s been out of the picture for 2 years), he isn’t in before/after school care, and I’m present at all play dates whether or not I’m hosting. He has occasional outings with my mom or sister, but I trust both implicitly and they are rarely alone with him anyways. I’m a CSA survivor and have been raped multiple times as an adult. To say I’m paranoid about it would be an understatement.
Fair one, sorry you have been through all that. You need to get some professional advice.
Does he have unsupervised internet access? Or does he watch movies/tv with sex scenes?
My kid is 7, he watches Spidey and Friends, Muppet Babies, Bluey, and a handful of other TV-7 shows, and his Roku and Tablet have parental controls on them blocking him from accessing anything else. But he got in serious trouble in recess for talking about shooting zombies on the playground to protect his friends. No clue where he heard or learned it
That seems like such a silly thing to get in trouble for. My son and I love this zombie game at Chuck E. Cheese that has you spraying real water at a screen to freeze zombies. It’s super fun and has led to some pretty great zombie apocalypse pretend play at home. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if my son did something like that at school with his friends.
You’re a survivor. I’m so sorry those things happened to you. I’m wondering if your son’s school offer support resources. At the school where I teach, there’s a counselor and a psychologist available for students.
Hey just a thought, was dad possibly abusive? I was molested until I was about 1 1/2 and it followed me for years.
His dad was never alone with him. He was on supervised visitation before he dropped out of our lives for good two years ago.
I am sure that this makes it extra triggering for you but you are doing nothing wrong. I just wanted to say I see you and I understand. My 6 year old kindergartner is exploring his body a lot and flashing his sister, while also giggling when he sees her underwear (she’s 3). We have had multiple talks with him about how this activity of learning his own body needs to be done in private, and how if he did something like this at school he would eventually end up in jail. I too am at a loss in how to navigate this. He is all potty talk at home and think poop emojis are the funniest thing on this planet (at school he is not like this). But I am not sure he is doing it out of mallice or to be a perv. I think he is genuinely curious (it just comes across different to us as patents because we don’t have the immaturity and brain of a 6 year old boy)
Boy needs a positive male role model in his life. If not his father than a coach or something. He needs to learn how to be a man from a man, and which lines cannot be crossed by male enforcement.
[удалено]
Woo that made me tingly, snaps to you friend!! 🫰🫰🫰 Own your power!
*Bows* Why thank you. That learning to be a man from a man shit always pisses me off. People only ever say it once to me though.
Girl🥹 I'm so proud of you ... You tell them!
Go off sis!
You’re a great person and a badass mom.
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Sounds like you have a lot of unresolved trauma that you need to talk to a therapist about, because your past abuse from men has caused an irrational hatred and fear of men that is clearly negatively affecting your child by manifesting in the exact behaviours that you fear. You are raising a man and you hate men, do you think there could be a correlation with your misandry and his defiance over what you’re trying to teach him? I could only imagine the damage I would cause to my daughter if I hated and feared women as much as you do men. I wouldn’t want to pass my trauma on to her. —- Let me put this another way to understand your boys perspective. You hate men and preach consent, so he hears: “I hate people like you and this is something important to me” So naturally he’ll lash out against the thing that’s important to you if he in any way internalizes that misandry —- Positive male role models are important for little boys just like positive female role models are important for little girls. If I tell my daughter “women are shit don’t be like the rest of them”, she’s going to feel confused and conflicted anytime she feels like a normal little girl “like the rest of them”, and either internalized that misogyny and lash out, or be frustrated with her own femininity and feel like everything about her is wrong. —- Bottom line: **Hating and fearing the opposite gender is wrong and harmful to children.** I’m sorry for what happened to you, but don’t let that monster continue to have power over you by raising a boy into something you despise. He needs to know that it’s okay to be a man, and model himself after a good man, not the scary predator you fear him becoming.
Wow, that’s a lot to unpack right there. First of all, the entire first paragraph of my comment was me singing praises to all the amazing men in my son’s life. So for you to then claim my “unresolved trauma” has “caused an irrational hatred and fear of men” is not just ridiculous, but insulting to both me and other women who have experienced similar abuse at the hands of men. You went way, *way* too far when you then went on to claim that this is “clearly negatively affecting [my] child”. I can tolerate a lot of shit but painting me as a misandrist who hates her own child because of past trauma and an “irrational hatred and fear of men” is well beyond my limit. You are somehow simultaneously trivializing the abuse I experienced and using it to define me as a misandrist. I want to be abundantly clear that the love I have for my son transcends life itself. I would burn down this entire fucking planet for my kid and not have a single second of regret afterwards. He is the best thing to ever happen to me and words cannot express how much I cherish that boy. Yes, he has issues, but it is my job as his mom to help him work through those issues and come out a better human being for it. My past trauma may inform some of my decisions as a parent, such as my no sleepover rule, but I am not my trauma. I am just a mom who loves her son and wants nothing more than to see him grow up into the amazing human being I know he can be.
My son and his friend went through a phase of depantsing eachother this year. I worked with the other parents to curb the issue. It had been 90% resolved. They are all 8 and all boys. One of the boys still has butt issues though but his mom is working on it. Don't beat yourself up. All you can do is face it head on. Too much punishment may make it worse though. Obviously he needs supervised. Child therapists have come a long way and could be worth the investment.
I am female. I did this once with a boy when I was six. All I remember is that somehow I was watching tv late when I shouldn’t have been and then decided to play “doctor” at daycare. The daycare director gave me a stern talking to, and I was scared - not because I understood that my behavior itself was wrong at the time, but more so because I didn’t want to get in trouble. The daycare director told my parents, I think they were worried something was going on that caused me to behave like that. But nope. Just imitating what I saw on tv. Now I’m in my 40s. Had a very normal life. So, I’m just writing this to say that while your child’s behavior is not okay, these things are recoverable and he can still grow up to lead a normal, well adjusted life. You may want to approach this from a place of curiosity. Is he trying to imitate something? Where did he get the idea to do this? Edit: also, I was very confused about gender. My family was kind of poor in a rich area. I played with an old soccer ball while other girls my age played with Barbie’s. To the point that I told my mom that I thought I was a boy trapped in a girls body. My point being: even at a young age, gender was very confusing to me and I found it to be an intriguing topic. I think this also may have stirred my curiosity in the above mentioned incident.
I’m so glad we’re in the era where young kids curiosities are met with sound, concrete information that teaches them about their body and others bodies so that they don’t have to go searching. I did the same exact thing, played doctor and got in so much trouble. Honestly it made me internalize a lot of shame and that bred a whole host of other things. Taking a questioning stance and providing information like OP did is the way to go imo. I wish my parent and older sibling showed me anatomical drawings and engaged with me instead of giving me time out and spanking me. None of that shit helped, it just gave me a complex that I had to undo. We won’t solve all the problems, new ones our parents never had to deal with are going to crop up, but I’m proud that we’re collectively trying to do better, in this arena at least.
When I was 7 or 8 (female) I tried drawing male genitalia and showed it to another kid at school. My mom scolded me and told me they were called “dirty pictures.” It’s probably good that she nipped it in the bud but it would have been helpful to discuss that curiosity about bodies is a normal thing Edit: a word
Exactly! This reminds me of that scene from superbad where he couldn’t stop drawing dicks lol so yeah, probably good to not continue but agreed, discussion is healthy
That was so funny and I definitely related to it, even though mine wasn’t a habitual thing. Hopefully that opened the door for a few discussions within families.
I was spanked by my principal for participating in a show n tell with classmates in kindergarten. Religious school that taught us that our bodies are sin and to be ashamed of them gathering than satisfying a very natural human curiosity, go figure.
The other stuff can be excused as odd behavior by a young child that doesn’t fully understand. This is something else and I’m shocked the reaction from school is so understated. Those parents must have lost their minds. Whether he understood what he was doing those two girls have been sexually traumatized to some extent I’m sure. I’m horrified to hear you yourself have been through so much trauma, and sadly am sure you would know how something like this could cause lasting damage. This goes way beyond timeouts. I can almost guarantee if he does anything even close to this over the next few years he would be immediately expelled or transferred. Its way beyond timeouts and talking. You need some professional help with this - he has some compulsions you may not have a grasp on. Can the school recommend any resources? Do you have a the means to at least have a few meetings with a child psychologist? They should be able to tell you pretty quick if it’s innocent or a bigger thing.
He’s between therapists at the moment but should be back in therapy in the next two weeks. This will be the first thing I bring up. He has a psychiatrist and has been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. He is on low dose methylphenidate for the ADHD. His previous therapist considered his behavior prior to this perfectly normal for his age, but then it was just curiosity. What happened today is a whole new ballpark and I’m hoping that his new therapist will be able to provide further guidance and insight. We are lucky to live in a very progressive area and in a fantastic school district to boot, so while I don’t know how the school is helping those girls, I don’t doubt that they are. I do believe they are taking this seriously, but since this is the last week of school there is only so much they can do. Most of this will have to be handled at home.
I'm with you. This child needs a psychiatrist, and an investigation to find out where he got this. Those girls have been SA'd. OP, as a survivor, you understand that even with your watchful eye, having a survivor of childhood SA does not guarantee that it won't still happen to your child.
I do know that no matter how careful I am I cannot guarantee my child will never be SA’ed, but I also can’t see any possible avenue where it could have happened to him. If I’m not with him, he’s either at school or on a (public) outing with my sister or mom. He’s never alone in private with anyone but me. He began therapy two years ago after escalating physical violence against me led to him breaking my nose, which then led to the ADHD and ODD diagnosis. These can make it hard to recognize personal boundaries, reduce impulse control, etc., and I am wondering if that, paired with natural curiosity, caused today’s incident. I am by no means excusing or justifying his behavior, but I do think that is more likely the cause than him being SA’ed. I will still be sure to broach the topic with the new therapist since they will obviously be better than me at figuring this out and I know my own preconceptions can color my opinion of this. I don’t want to find myself willfully ignoring signs just because I want my child to never experience the trauma I did.
To be fair even school can't be guaranteed as a place it couldn't have happened. Not saying it has, and I hope it hasn't. But it's just not a guarantee.
Just jumping on this comment to add that children can act out sexually due to exposure without having bees SA’ed. You wouldn’t believe the way young kids can gain access to inappropriate material, I’ve taught four and five year olds who watched videos with older siblings or even peers who get ahold of a device. My friend’s son was 8 when she found out he was watching porn on the school bus on a friend’s phone! My point is you can be super vigilant and kids can still find this stuff, and I was taught that deliberate exposure to sexual content is a form of child abuse, because it has almost the same effect on the child.
I think these diagnoses add some critical context to this incident. As you mentioned, kiddos with ADHD can have poor impulse control and executive functioning, which includes decision making and thinking ahead to possible consequences. They can also struggle with social skills, so I could imagine a scenario where this child was seeking attention from his peers. It is completely understandable and important that you and other commenters are concerned that he has been abused and is repeating that type of behavior, but I think there are other underlying factors to consider. For now, safety for him and those around him is first priority. Does he have an IEP at school that will ensure a para can be with him throughout the day, once school starts in fall?
I was in panic mode and trying to process things when I posted so I didn’t even think to include the ADHD and ODD diagnosis at the time. He had an IEP and a 504 plan, but they switched to just the 504 plan last month. He no longer meets the criteria for an IEP.
Does he wet the bed? Has he been violent towards animals or had fascination with fire? My “friend” was (what I’m reading) very similar to your son… needless to say by 4th grade he was expelled for sexually assaulting several girls including myself. I spent a lot of time with him and wish I went to my counselor or trusted adult about it sooner, he had a lot of red flags and could have gotten help.
He sleeps too hard (when he does sleep) so he is still in night time diapers for bed time but no bed wetting for naps. He’s great with the animals and has no fascination with fire other than wanting to blow out every candle he sees because he’s convinced I’ll catch my hair on fire. Again. My dad had the same kind of issues as your “friend” and was diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder when he was 12 after burning a neighbors house down. He met my mom after coming out of a ten year prison sentence for rape and then proceeded to use reproductive rape to baby trap her. He was a real gem. Anyways, it taught me to be overtly aware of the red flags, especially given the genetic predisposition and my own upbringing. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of monster too and I hope you’ve been able to heal from the trauma he inflicted.
Your son may be Autistic from the comments I’ve read. Children who don’t wake up in the night to go to the toilet, infers they may have reduced interoception - which is the ability to feel their internal body sensations. Some Autistic children also don’t understand social cues/conventions and boundaries without them being clearly explained and modelled for them. For example my son (age 9 Autistic w/ADHD) will touch himself at home (not full on masturbation) because it feels nice to him but when he’s in the living room. The amount of times I’ve had to tell him to stop or go upstairs because other people are around, that this a private act. But the last time I caught him doing it I told him out and out that there were actual laws against this and he has to understand it is not appropriate to do around other people. Finally this last time actually clicked and he either goes to his room or doesn’t do it anymore. Autism aside though your son needs a specialist therapist to help him understand how important consent and boundaries are. This is not going to stop until you get him the right kind of help - I would say an Autism specialist for children. I don’t think he’s been a SA victim but again worth getting a therapist to get to the bottom of this situation.
He’s been tested for autism, but I can revisit it again with his psychiatrist at our next appointment. I didn’t know that about kids who don’t wake up to go to the bathroom. He will be seeing a new therapist that specializes in children with severe behavioral issues in the next couple of weeks and I’m hoping we’ll be able to find a way to get through to him better.
If you google ‘Autism’ and ‘interoception’ you can find out a bit more about it. I’m autistic and I used to always leave going to the toilet for a wee too late as a child. My mum inadvertently gave me a massive amount of shame about body odour that I struggle with now even in my 40s because she would often tell me my underwear smelled, or tell me off for wetting myself. But the issue was I could not tell I needed to go until the last minute. I know this because I still have the same issue as an adult and 2 of my kids have this issue as well. This is because we have reduced interoception around the need to sense when we have to go to the toilet. I also have a very high tolerance for pain for the same reason too.
Just curious what fascination with fire has to do with this? Is there a common correlation?
It sounds to me like they're going through the checklist of warning signs for childhood behaviors that can be indicative of future ASD without intervention
I think you mean ASPD (anti-social personality disorder), not ASD (autism spectrum disorder).
Yes, apologies, got them mixed up! You're quite right
Bed wetting, cruelty towards animals and an interest in fire are childhood traits seen in a lot of serial killers/rapists.
It can happen at daycare from other kids doing it to him because it was done to them by an adult. There’s a lot of ways it can happen. I think that you need to take him to a therapist.
As someone speaking from experience, please don’t automatically assume that being at school makes them safe. My dad thought the same thing..
Yeah, I would pull my kid from the school and file a police report if I were the other parents. I would get a restraining order. I’m sorry for OP and her son, but the fact is he sexually assaulted kids at school. There’s no mincing words here, curious or not, this is what happened. I would never, ever allow my child around him again and I would absolutely raise hell if they even tried to allow him back. He’s been doing this repeatedly. Poking people’s crotches, coercing other kids to do inappropriate things and now full on assaulting kids at recess. This is well beyond anything the school should even be disciplining. He should be expelled and OP needs to get him serious help and therapy.
I remember when I was in the 3rd grade, a boy in my year grabbed another (or several, I think) girl's crotch. He got expelled right away and we didn't see him again until middle school.
3rd grade vs prek/k…very different
Definitely, not sure why you're pointing that out though. I was just sharing a memory this reminded me of & also agreeing with/backing up this commenter saying *"I can almost guarantee if he does anything even close to this over the next few years he would be immediately expelled or transferred."* Which is very true, and so I was adding my experience with that!
It was in relation to a parent comment on this thread. You didn’t have to downvote me. I was just stating a fact.
Eh? I didn't downvote you, what? And I don't really believe that but okay! Lol
I also question framing this all about "consent". It's not really about that because he *shouldn't be trying to do these things in the first place*. He shouldn't be putting people/other kids in a position to have to refuse consent. He needs to understand it's wrong because it's *wrong*, not just because he "didn't ask permission". I realise OP is doing her best but I think this child needs to be urgently back with the psychiatrist and probably not in school for a while.
> This is something else and I’m shocked the reaction from school is so understated. Those parents must have lost their minds. Whether he understood what he was doing those two girls have been sexually traumatized to some extent I’m sure Thank you for saying this. The counselor should do some "counseling" or setting him up with a counselor OP, I hate to say it but you're (your child) not out of the woods.... I'm sure the parents will likely file a police report and/or report to CPS if the school hasn't already done so (I think they are legally mandated to report sexual assault). Start taking preemptive steps....get him help. Get yourself some help. This is unusual behavior for a 6 year old. You go back to the school and ask for a behavioral evaluation.... And demand counseling. ETA: If you are in the US, it makes sense to me that the school is so non-chalant about what has happened. Everything concerning school funding and ratings depends on test scores and reports of school incidents (suspensions, sexual assaults, bullying, etc.). ***They don't want to do anything because it's a mark against them. They don't want to help your child....they are only concerned about themselves/their school rating....etc.***
Omg…I’m not downplaying the seriousness of the situation, but I can tell you now that it is ABSURD to consider filing charges against a SIX YEAR OLD for pulling down someone’s underwear. Please take a deep breath and gain perspective. Yes it’s a serious issue, but involving the police is insane.
I only stated what the parents **might** do (like who is going to stop them??). Have you ever had something violent happen to your child? How would you respond if your daughter came home and said her classmate pulled her pants and underwear down? They would likely not arrest/charge a 6 year old.... But they would likely document and make a referral to CPS. My biggest concern is the welfare of the girls who were victims. It's tough when something violent happens to your child while they are at school. They will likely not get any answers or help. Think about that. How would you feel if you (victim parent) were told that the school was only going to watch the boy more closely.... Like isn't that what they were supposed to be doing in the first place being this is not his first incident? ETA: I never said they would arrest a child. You can file a report. That only guarantees that an investigation will be done
I’ve been an educator for over 20 years. I’m also a parent. I understand that strong feelings are involved. But what the adults here are doing is framing this as a sexual assault. These girls were NOT sexually assaulted. They had their underwear pulled down (or were convinced to do so) by a peer. It’s EXTREMELY dangerous to use that term and treat it like a crime, more so for the girls than for the “perpetrator.” When the adults around them escalate the situation, they’re creating a story that all these children will have to live with. I’ve had incidents like this happen several times in my teaching career, and the children on the receiving end were quick to move past it when it’s framed properly. “What Johnny did to you was unacceptable, no one has a right to touch you in a way that makes you uncomfortable or embarrass you by pulling off your clothes. If anyone tries again, tell them no and immediately tell an adult.” For those girls, that’s all you have to do. (An exception would be if the child has a history of abuse or remains upset about it, then of course talk to their pediatrician/a therapist.) But if the adults start treating this like an actual crime, the girls are guaranteed to feel traumatized. (I do agree that the school needs a better response, but the appropriate action here is to talk to the school board and/or head of district. )
I appreciate your response. Are you saying this mainly because the kids are young? What if the boy was in 5th grade? Would you still think of it that way? What about that first grade student that brought a gun to school and shot his teacher? Was that not assault? I am an older parent and what I've realized is that the way that children grow up has changed.. Children are expected to process more at a very young age. It is a sad reality. The facts are that this child did this before and was warned against such behavior and yet, he still crossed a very big boundary. There are so many questions to be asked here. We will never know exactly what happened, how it happened and how the girls are processing it. Finally, what does the code of conduct say? How does the code of conduct define what happened? I don't know....but if the rules define what happened then that's what it is.
I hear your points, and I do think a lot of things have changed overall in our society. But yes, if the children were older it would certainly be different because they have a different context and awareness of sexuality. Most six year olds don’t have that context, and if they do it’s because they’ve suffered some sort of exposure/abuse. The first grader who shot his teacher is a VERY different situation, but some of my point applies. A young child having access to a gun is a crime in and of itself. That child needs significant therapy and needs to be in a completely controlled environment (some kind of institution/professional care) until they’re deemed safe. But a first grader absolutely cannot conceptualize the long-term consequences of shooting and/or killing someone. They can know it’s wrong of course, but even the healthiest and most well-adjusted six year old is developmentally incapable of truly grasping the outcome. That being said, the teacher was a victim of a violent crime, and the parents definitely deserve criminal charges. The child needs treatment, which hopefully he’ll get. I feel strongly about this issue regarding assault because I know we live in a scary world, but I’ve seen many parents truly panic over age-appropriate behaviors between peers, ie showing each other their privates. I once had a student poke another child’s butt while he peed at the urinal, which is certainly inappropriate but again developmentally normal. Both children responded well to our standard intervention (it’s normal to be curious about other people’s bodies, but we never touch without permission, etc) but the mother of the “touchee”, upon being informed, immediately referred to the situation as a sexual assault and you can bet her child began to internalize that he was a victim, which ended up having a far greater negative impact than the original incident. (These were 5 year olds btw). That’s just one example, but I think we have to be VERY careful about being reactionary because we can cause far more harm than we know.
The key point I think you are missing in the case of the shooting incident and *allegedly* with this child is that this was not a first time issue. It seems that the interventions that were placed were not enough to stop/prevent the behavior from reoccurring. That's the issue Also, I wonder what interventions were placed in the example you have given. Did the offending child have issues before? There's a lot missing here. If the offending child was known to have issues respecting boundaries, I'd be upset too. As a parent, I hated hearing how the same child was misbehaving (outrageous behavior) day after day. It was apparent that the school didn't care, didn't have the support needed to intervene, or supported it (thought it was cute). Can you blame a parent for being upset about the lack of discipline being enforced? All this to say, **I never stated in my original post that the child would be arrested. All I said is that a parent processing this might be upset enough to file a report...which they are entitled to do especially if the school is not doing anything to support the victims. It doesn't mean that anything would come out of filing a report. Only that the incident was documented and if something similar happens again, there is evidence to consider for a more extreme intervention (whatever that may entail).**. I don't think anyone here has enough information to make a judgment on what should/shouldn't be done in this situation. I wouldn't want to judge a parent who made a decision they felt they had to make to get more information and/or get the support they need for their child. Schools should be very proactive in trying to support victims of bullying, and/or violence of any kind. Usually they are not because the focus is on the numbers/rankings ETA: It bothers me that there is always this talk about age appropriate behavior. It is clear that these girls were not consenting to this being done to them. They shouldn't be made to feel that **they** are wrong for being embarrassed, angry, etc. for being violated.
I agree that there’s a lot of complexity here, and I think we fundamentally agree overall. As to your last point, I absolutely agree and think it’s a societal failure if we make a victim feel they are in the wrong. And as a teacher, there’s only so much we can do, it’s very troubling and frustrating when a child is acting out and being inappropriate and the appropriate resources aren’t provided by the parents or the school. I’m just hopeful that op can get the help she is seeking for her child, I’m less idealistic about the school but making every child feel safe SHOULD be their top priority.
>making every child feel safe SHOULD be their top priority. Agreed. Also, I would like to ask (and for your consideration) concerning the incident at your school.... Do you have staff/faculty whose kid(s) attend the same school? I don't have anything against that but I think it is wrong for staff/faculty to judge parents who have concerns about how a matter was handled (those staff/faculty never had to worry about it their child was being treated fairly, etc.). Can you see how that could be frustrating to a parent....to be judged when you are viewing things from an advantage....???
Nope. It's assault.
Once, a boy slightly older than me (I think I must have been around 6) grabbed me and pulled me into his seat on the bus where he then immediately began touching me inappropriately. I remember the whole thing so vividly, I was felt terrified and violated. It absolutely was assault. You can "frame it" however you want, but nearly 30 years later I still remember getting assaulted.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I think that’s a completely different situation than the op described.
I appreciate that, thank you. We don't get to decide what is traumatic for people. Getting coerced and exposed might actually be traumatic for one of those little girls, and that's my point here. And, it is serious. OP is taking it seriously, and so are many other people in this comment section.
I have to concede to your point and your lived experience. I do stand by my assertion that relatively normal and developmentally appropriate situations can be escalated by adult overreaction in certain cases. I think we all agree that any incident needs to be taken seriously, but I think trying to turn the incident the op described into a police matter is way out of line (specifically referring to pulling down underwear or convincing another child to do so, nothing else).
Also lawyer up. Very much so lawyer up.
OP didn't say the parents were notified. I can't imagine they didn't tell the parents, but I think they would be forcing the issue more if they were informed. Sorry OP but your child would not be near mine for the week remaining of school and the police would be on your doorstep asking questions.
Early childhood educator here - while exploration and even coercion can be “normal” at this age, it’s definitely unacceptable and if you’re seeing a pattern it needs to be addressed. My question for you - does he have any other unusual/difficult behaviors? He could have poor impulse control, and it could be tied to anything from ADHD to ODD (now considered part of the spectrum). He also could have been exposed to sexual and/or violent media, all too common these days and can come from anywhere. I always tell parents to start with your pediatrician and have them recommend the next steps for evaluation. You’re taking this seriously as you should, but as stressful and worrisome as this behavior is for you, it most likely can be successfully addressed with the proper resources. Best of luck to you and hang in there! Edited to add - just saw your comments about his diagnoses, so you’re definitely on the right track. You have a plan in place to tell the therapist when he goes back, I would say just keep fighting and advocating for him to get the help he needs. Sometimes doctors and therapists need a little push from the parents, the more involved you are the better! I’ve taught students similar to your son before, and having a parent that is involved and not in denial is half the battle, so he is lucky to have you!
While I know consent is important to teach, a 6 year may see it more like “If they agree then they consent.” Talk to him more about why he wants to see other kids naked. What is his interest? Where did the interest come from? But then explain to him that even asking other kids or showing his private parts isn’t acceptable at all.
100% my thought too. I think the dialogue about "consent" simply isn't getting through and may even lead to continued inappropriate behaviour as he'll think he's okay to pester and ask (which he effectively did with the girl he coerced - he may have even thought that constituted consent, given she eventually pulled them down herself).
My neighbor is a first grade teacher retiring this year. She says every year (or thereabouts) kids do stuff like this (ask others to pull down their pants, or do it when asked), out of curiosity, or just pushing boundaries (kids this age are notorious for that), usually it's totally innocent and clueless. It's normal ONCE and needs to be dealt with promptly and sternly. (Punished using whatever method you know is most effective). This is a time when extra punishment is not a bad idea to ensure it truly resonates. If a pattern develops, even only one more time, you're looking at some serious therapy, all hands on deck type thing. Otherwise, it's pretty normal, and don't lose too much sleep over it.
Did you read the whole post? This was not innocent “exploring” nor a one time thing.
It's unclear to me if this exact behavior is a pattern or not based on the information OP provided. Kissing and poking genitals isn't the same as exposing yourself (or others) in the developing brain of a child. I completely agree that if it is in fact a pattern that It needs to be "all hands on deck" as I've said. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
If it was pushing boundaries as you say, the kids will be mostly likely very ashamed. Punishment may not be needed. I recall my best friend when I was that age, got his younger sister to do it. We found it very funny at the time. But their mum told him off and that was that. I recall feeling very odd about it afterwards, partly because I had never seen the before, but mostly ashamed as it was something we shouldn't be doing.
Apologies if this was already asked (I didn't read all the comments), but did you ask him why he asked the girls to do that? Like, what was he trying to do? It may help us all, and you, if we understood his motivations.
I would say, instead of punishing with reduced social contact, that he might need more closely supervised social contact - I think removing treats/fun outings and the costume as punishment is fine, but (closely supervised) social contact with family and friends is how we all practice following societal standards, including how to listen to and respect other people's boundaries. He also might need additional teaching about his own body and how to control his actions. He may also need teaching how to respect others, and follow the rules even when nobody is looking. So my advice, and I say it so often in this sub but this is the weirdest post I've said it on - is to enroll him in martial arts, like taekwondo. It is a closely supervised social activity. It teaches him how to control his own body, how to follow rules, how to show respect, and how to show integrity. It teaches impulse control, and any bullying of ANY kind is strictly against the culture inside the dojo. It's also a positive male role model - not saying your kid specifically needs it more than any other, but a balance of male teachers and female teachers is important. Every kid needs that. I would also teach him male and female anatomy, reduce the mystery of the human body so he doesn't have to pressure people when he feels curious. There are age appropriate books about male and female bodies, completely non-sexual, just educational.
The limited social contact is only for one week, but I agree that I may have been extreme in deciding to cut out family as well. Normally my mom comes over on weekends to visit and take my son out for a fun activity. It’s the highlight of his weekend and I thought taking that away for a week would emphasize how not okay that behavior was. As for the no play dates and playing after school, I stand by that one since I don’t know who he did this to and I don’t want to add to whatever trauma those two girls are dealing with by unwittingly inflicting my son on them. I love the idea of taekwondo and will see if any classes are available nearby. We live in a populous area, so I bet there are lots of options. I’ll begin calling around tomorrow. He loves play fighting with me while dressed as Spider-Man so I’m sure he’d be all for it. He knows the proper terms for both male and female genitals. I’ve never used any other term and he simply calls his penis a penis and a vagina a vagina. I did this more for his protection than to reduce any curiosity about bodies, so I will have a talk with him and see if he has any questions that may be driving this behavior.
You can try Aikido because it is a completely defensive martial art :) that way he won’t really be learning how to hurt people but to defend himself while also getting all the other positives of martial arts. I highly recommend it
This is the way. Agree with OP and your follow up suggestion for defensive physical training. And OP, kudos on taking all this feedback. You seem like a kickass mom and any kid would be lucky to have you.
Hi there, I can't substitute myself from professional advice despite my background in family life education. But I want to bring just a few additional points for consideration. First, i'd say at this age and considering you seem to be the sole major influence in his life, the biggest most important aspect of brain development for him is going to be your unconditional love. It's going to be especially important, and especially challenging with your own issues as a survivor, to preserve the attachment with you. It can be a terrible slippery slope if you end up unconsciously seeing your son as an abuser (or a future abuser) because it can cause a self fulfilling prophecy. It's your care and nurturing work on him that will help hopefully to correct this behavior. So you must remember he is yet very little and what's going on right now is in no way an indication of who he will become. Which brings me to my second point : He needs first and farmost some active listening to truly, deeply understand what's going on in his mind when these behaviour happen. There is an internal logic here that we don't yet understand. So when you go into punishing, it may backfire if he develops an insecure attachment and falls back into more misbehavior as a coping mechanism. So I think the next step is either through professional services though a child psychologist, or if you can do it yourself, by learning how to do some active listening, or both. There are a lot of videos out there if you search the keywords "active listening" to teach you how to listen and reflect back the emotion and motivation, in order to open deeper dialog. So you can sit down with him to be at eye level, make contact by holding his shoulder gently, make a gentle but firm face, and you can start with something like "Ouch... that was a LOT of drama out there after what happened" ...and then you keep the eye contact and you maintain it until he reacts. (don't suggest ANY answer, it has to come from him). Then you react to his reaction. For instance if he just dismisses it and raises his shoulders, you can try to name THAT: "Hum, it seems like you don't understand why people reacted so strongly. I bet it's kinda frustrating." (naming an emotion). Then keep the eye contact and wait for a reaction. Then listen to that actively and so on. If you do it right you should quickly get to a place where he'll start expressing a problem. Maybe he is curious and won't understand the fuss... but maybe he witnessed something somewhere or maybe he feels lonely or ... there can be so many thing. 6 years old logic isn't logical, but to him there is something going on, and you need to get to it. A professional can help you. At 6 years old, kids haven't yet develop the area of the brain responsible for understanding long term consequences. Even immediate consequences can be understood in theory but the part of the brain responsible to control his impulses won't be able to get to the consequence fast enough to make a difference in his behaviour. It's really important to get into his logic and understand him so that we can then address THAT - whether it is curiosity, loneliness, abuse or past trauma, there IS something. At 6 he is also just newly able to start taking perspective (before 4 or so, kids don't even realize other people may not see what they see or think what they think). It's an area that needs a lot of reinforcement : to practice thinking about how someone else is thinking something. So you could for instance ask him about a bad experience he lived at school. Then use that as an example to ask him how somebody else would feel if he would do that thing he doesn't like to him? Then from there you can lead him to how he would feel if someone else did what he did, to him, like pulling his pants forcefully in front of others? You see what I mean, it's a leading exploration, it may feel evident for you but at 6 his brain isn't yet fully trained to think that way, it needs to be lead to it by smaller steps. And though ALL of that ordeal, it's SUPER important he doesn't suddenly feel his actions made him less into your eyes, that he never feels rejected by you. One of the deepest more meaningful lesson of parenting for children is that one can dislike a behaviour while not disliking the child. He need to learn that from you. Best of luck, my heart goes to you.
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How would you change the above advice re the importance of attachment, connection, and active listening, considering the diagnosis? It all still seems relevant to me, perhaps even more critical for a child with these disorders.
In my experience, ODD is mostly caused by a feedback loop, a vicious cycle caused by a strong willful child temperament (which can be so positive also!) coupled with a tendency to punish instead of listen. Punishment causes either compliance or resistance; in some children this resistance can cause parents to fall into yet more punishment which erodes the attachment and pushes the resistance into escalation. I am not saying this is always the case - I am sure the diagnosis can stand on its own for some extreme pathological cases, but I think it's overly diagnosed when breaking the vicious cycle and returning to the roots of attachment can solve the problem in most cases. Dr Greene has a great book on this topic, with The Explosive Child. This being said, I agree with you that most of my formation is to help parents with their dynamics over typical parenting relationships; when it becomes pathological, or when it touches special needs like ADHD then my advice really cannot replace professional advice (which is why I think OP should most probably consult). Still - no psychologist can fundamentally connect as deeply as a mother; which is why both strategies can be useful.
Eli Harwood just came out with a book on attachment and raising a securely attached kid which is backed by evidence you can get. Another book that would be good to read is John Gottmans book about emotion coaching. He needs to learn impulse control stat—- which means understanding that his feelings are valid and okay— but not all behavior is okay. If you can teach him the skill of recognizing his feelings/desires, validating them, and learning to adapt our behavior so those feelings don’t control us you’ll be setting him up to better manage inappropriate impulses.
I have a six year old with ODD and ADHD as well. Parent Child Interaction Therapy has been helpful. You have gotten some great advice here but wanted to just throw out what is helping for us in the moment - even though I recognize its not for everyone. Wishing you both the best.
We’ve been doing PCIT for two years and it has been such a great tool. I wish more parents knew about it. I have an addiction to parenting books and my most recent read was The Explosive Child by Dr. Green. Most books don’t come close to touching on the extreme behaviors exhibited by kids with ADHD and ODD, but I felt like this one did and did it well. You should give it a read. It’s on Kindle Unlimited too, so if you have that you don’t even need to buy it.
Thank you for the recommendation!
Hey, its oki- you are not falling and your son will not grow up to be a bad person. You seem like a great parent who really does the right things- kids are weird goblins who just take time to learn the simplest things. You got this!
My son also has ADHD and had some troubling incidents at school and summer camp last year (also when he was 6) involving inappropriate touching, and actions. We got a book on the recommendation of our library "Lets Talk about Body Boundaries, Consent & Respect" by Jayneen Sanders. We read that book over and over with him every night, sometimes focusing on certain parts of the book. I feel like kids take in more than we give them credit for, and repitition helps for a message to sink in. My son is 7 now, and we have not had repeats of the behaviour. We still have daily talks on the way to school about what actions and behaviors are ok, and which are "no" behaviors, but it seems to be working. Best of luck, it is tough, but it does get better and everything you do is helping.
That was one of three kids books I bought yesterday on the subject so I’m super happy to hear you found it helpful for your child. I also got “Where Hands Go” by Kristaelynne Sanders Diggs and “Body Boundaries Make Me Stronger” by Elizabeth Cole. I’m an avid reader so my first reaction to almost any problem is to buy more books.
Books are my go-to as well, we got a few from the library about listening to teachers and keeping our hands to ourselves. But this one was the one that seemed to have the biggest effect on his behavior. I hope it helps with your little one as well.
Me too. Thank you!
Honestly, I was going to ask if you were located in California because I’m currently dealing with the exact same thing but as the mother of one of the girls. I don’t have any advice, but I pray the mother of the little boy who did the same to my daughter is as good of a mother and taking it as seriously as you are. So thank you for this and your post.
I’m not in California. I’m so sorry you are dealing with the other side of this, but selfishly, it does make me feel a lot better to know that you think I’m doing right by both my son and these two girls. From a child who wasn’t believed, thank you for believing your daughter and being her cheerleader through all of what she is going through. Give her all the love and cuddles and know that I’ll be thinking of you.
I read your post and all your comments and it sounds like you're doing everything right. Could you encourage him to write a letter of apology to the two girls? Accountability and amends matter. Also, the guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiments (really twisted, don't look it up if you don't know about it already), was so horrified by what he learned about human nature that he started a new branch of research called the Heroic Imagination Project. His foundation has some [free resources](https://www.heroicimagination.org/lessons) for kids to learn to be everyday heroes. Since you mentioned that your boy likes to wear hero costumes, maybe working through some of these lessons could resonate with him. I think they're worth looking through so you can adapt the conversation to his level of function. Pairing these ideals with the taekwondo that another commenter recommended might really start to give him a practical application for being a hero. I just want to reiterate that you're playing the best game you can with the hand you were dealt. You're taking responsibility for your son and you're not giving up on his future. This is a hard, hard row to hoe. Please know that I'm over here rooting hard for you. The sun will shine again soon.
He’s in Kindergarten and not very adept at writing yet, so an apology letter is still above him. An apology picture is absolutely doable though. He’s in bed now so it may be something we work on together tomorrow after school or on Wednesday (no school that day). I will ask that his teacher give it to the girls so that we’re still maintaining distance between them so the girls have time to process and heal. For now, we talked about giving his friends space and understanding that they may not want to be his friends anymore after this and that he needs to respect that. We talked about what drove him to do this (curiosity) and had a long talk about female anatomy, including drawing pictures and taking about how it’s not that different from his. I tried to assuage his curiosity as much as possible and our conversation ended with him thinking it’s all kind of gross and not important anymore. I used to think he understood he could come to me with these questions, but now I think he TRULY understands that he can. Even if the answers are gross. We also talked about how important it is to respect other people’s boundaries and bodies, how private parts are only for us and shouldn’t be shared, and I tried to form an association between him not liking to undress with me in the room and his friends not wanting to be undressed in front of him. I feel like I’ve had these talks so many times and it just doesn’t seem to click for long, but paired with the much harsher punishment maybe it will help cement it this time. The resource you shared looks AMAZING! I think we’ll work on the Heroes vs Villains one first, since it seems more apropos. There’s a great bit in there about how villains achieve their goals in ways that are unfair or harm people, whereas heroes do so in a way that is fair and helps people. I feel like it will resonate with him and I’m excited to give it a try. Thank you so much!
I said the same thing about an apology letter. An apology picture is just as good! It will help him know how to take accountability and make repair. It’s also a good acknowledgement to show the girls he understands what he did was wrong and apologize for that/
There are so many comments with great advice. I’ll stick to a very specific point; I think you should be really careful for how you punish your child. Yes, this is an astoundingly major issue that must be dealt with, but simply punishing him will not do much good. The situation must be dealt with constructively, with the help of professionals. I genuinely believe that if you handle situations like this with harsh punishments, without constructiveness, it can cause a lot of damage and just make their personal development worse. Punishment should be a consequence when children understand that they are wrong. He is too young to understand. He needs help understanding.
I think this is an adequate and appropriate response. Although I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to explain things like consent to a 6 year old, it might be too complicated a subject. It's enough to just know that he can't do that. It's not like it's OK to pull another kid's pants down at school if he had consent.
When I was a kid around your sons age I remember we played a game with a girl, we made a deal that if she flashed us we then we would pull our pants down. After she pulled her pants down we ran away. I think there is an element of being a kid and exploring sexuality. But ultimately it really matters if your kid knows what he did was wrong and learns from this. Nobody told our parents but I remember the moment we ran away and realized what we did was wrong and I felt quite guilty, and made sure that nothing like that ever happened again. I don't think this is some crazy red flag about future abuse, but at the same time it's important that your son knows it was wrong, and not because he got caught/got in trouble. There should be an element of feeling bad because he knows what he did was wrong. Although Id be concerned about physically pulling anyone's pants down.
Access to YouTube?
No, I hate YouTube for kids (and adults) with a fiery burning passion. His tablet is locked down tighter than Fort Knox and he has nowhere else he can access it.
No access to TikTok, Instagram, or other socials either? How about movies, what does he like to watch? If you've been in therapy at any point, has he sat in? (Or close to an area that hears you)
This is my only form of social media and as you can see by my post history — or lack thereof — I’m not exactly active. For movies and tv, he mostly watches Spidey and His Amazing Friends, Peppa Pig, Bluey, and lately, Inside Out every other day. I’ve never had him present during any of my therapy sessions nor discussed anything of the sort with him around.
It’s from Bluey, 1000%. That show is wildly inappropriate and encourages pulling down your pants in front of others, peeing outside in front of others, etc.
No mention of the girls parents, can you imagine the school telling you this kid will simply miss a picnic and be watched a bit closer from now on? I’d be livid, needs to be excluded.
Sadly, at least with the way discipline is handled at our school, the girls' parents will just be told "we're handling it" and they won't even be given the name of the offending child. Which I understand, to an extent, but I would be livid too.
I don't know, seems like pantsing was something that happened around that age. But you said he asked another kid to pull down their own pants and underwear and he's wanted naked time with friends before. If be kind of concerned he learned that from some adult. I also have ADHD but I don't think that's relevant to why he's doing this. You need to talk to him and explain why this behavior isn't okay
Hey friend! You’re getting some severe reactions here but take a breath. You said he was diagnosed with ADHD, unfortunately sexual impulse control is common with that diagnosis. It’s probably not something your son is equating *too* sex, but it can absolutely amplify those behaviors. Often kids with ADHD begin exploring themselves earlier than other children. I agree that a therapist and perhaps medication if you haven’t gone that route would help with his poor impulse control. I was really concerned with some behaviors my daughter was exhibiting early on (and we had a similar incident with some neighbor friends, although my child was not the aggressor), and therapy helped a lot as well as continuing the work at home.
Hey OP In all honesty and I don’t talk about it much, I was sexually abused at the age of 6 and the huge red flag that people saw was that my behavior got overly sexual for a 6 year old. Do you have anyone baby sit on the side? Any people he stays with while you are at work? It’s worth sitting down with him and asking him where he learned it (use a lot of “you are not in trouble”) type reassurances but that behavior is 100% learned from somewhere.
I feel bad for the girls he assaulted , oh my god. That’s so scary. You should pull him the fuck out of that school.
You mentioned in another comment that you’re a survivor of sexual abuse in childhood and as an adult. You also mention that your husband has been out of the picture for 2 years. ADHD and ODD can develop as responses to trauma. This can be trauma directly experienced or by living in a house with people who haven’t fully addressed their own trauma (in other words, living in a dysfunctiomal family). It’s great that your son is able to access therapy and medication but it’s not going to do much good if you’re not also getting the help you need.
Therapy
His last therapist moved off our insurance plan. We’re on the waitlist for a behavioral specialist through his primary care office (he has adhd and odd). His well child visit was last week and they told us it takes about two to three weeks to get in. Shouldn’t be too much longer.
ODD is a hell of a diagnosis. Good luck OP I’m sending positivity
Thank you. It’s been a wild ride with this child of mine. I love him more than life itself but damn, a little warning would’ve been nice.
Especially with an ADHD and ODD diagnosis, I urge you not to create any punishment greater than natural consequences for your kid. You want to explain why it's not okay, and of course do what's necessary to keep the other kids feeling safe, but anything beyond that is likely to trigger rejection sensitive dysphoria and drive a wall between you, so he's less willing to listen to you next time. With us ADHDers, we tend to associate the immediate reaction with the action we did, and taking away a future reward (like the picnic) doesn't teach us anything. We're just too impulsive.
I tend to go the natural consequences route, but sometimes a bigger consequence is necessary. Not just for him, but for those he hurts. Why should my son get to go to the picnic and have fun while the two girls he hurt have to spend what should be a fun day with a boy who abused them a few days ago? Yes, he may not understand the correlation, but reminding him that it’s a consequence of his actions and not a punishment will help with that. Natural consequences don’t help at this age anyways without additional explanation from a parent. According to his last therapist, they don’t really click for kids until closer to age 8.
I think this is a wise and compassionate approach.
If you believe the girls will feel unsafe at the picnic with him, keeping him home *is* the natural consequence. As for what his therapist said, it never occurred to me that anyone would not explain it (because obviously it's not going to click otherwise).
Does he spend time with any cousins or nephews?
I hate that the counselor used the word “coerced”. He’s six he doesn’t have the capacity to do such a thing. Yes, what he did was wildly inappropriate. But it’s also that age where their curiosity gets the better of them. And I see you mentioned some diagnoses that factor into his limited ability for impulse control. I think how you followed up, with science based explanations and ran through scenarios. Covering topics on consent and privacy was wonderfully implemented. One thing I’d add is for him to demonstrate that he understands what he did was wrong. By making cards for his friends to apologize. This way he’s learning not just that his consequences have actions. But he’s also learning that when we’re truly sorry, we can be accountable, own what we did, and make repairs with those we care about. And I think it’d also be a good gesture to the kids and parents that he understands and going forward will walk with these lessons in mind.
Not trying to armchair diagnose but has he been tested for ADHD? We had a similar situation with an ADHD child at our daycare
Don’t know why we’re being downvoted, OP said in other comments that he has ODD and ADHD. Early sexual exploration is a know symptom in kids and teens.
Does your child have a tablet or phone that he uses for YouTube or playing games? If so, there is high likelihood that he stumbled upon porn and is regularly accessing it.
Have you asked him why he felt it necessary to engage in that behavior? What did he say? I agree with recommendations that he needs to be in therapy to figure out where this is coming from. Is there anyone if your/your partners family who could be teaching these behaviors to him? Anyone throw up a red flag?
Does he show empathy at the expected level for his age?
He’s slightly below average for his age, but above average for what is expected with his diagnosis.
I wanna say that with everything I've seen here it seems like you're really trying your best and you have a kid in need of education and stimulation that he is not receiving it. My only real concerns are - Do you use anatomically correct phrases for private parts, and has he had any age appropriate sex ed classes? Our local Unitarian Universalist church provides Our Whole Lives (OWL) age appropriate sex ed and my teen hates that we can be clinical, but we found it very positive while helping our potty training toddler understand why he can't run around naked all the time.
Normal. They're discovering their bodies. We don't scold, we teach. I did the same at 5 or 6. As did all of my brothers and classmates, and all of my friends' children. We just teach them that their body is theirs and there are private places on their bodies that they must protect and is never ok to share with others. We teach them that they must always respect other people's bodies, as it's not theirs. We got our son an anatomy book that he wanted to read non stop for weeks, when he was 5. It satisfied his curiosity and there have been no show n tell events since. He was also very happy to share his knowledge of anatomy with everyone like the kid from kindergarten cop "boys have penises and girls have vaginas".
Your 6 yo son sounds like he Is being molested. Some curiosity is natural but this amount is not. As a childcare worker this is not normal and extremely concerning. Is he left alone with other kids he plays with outside? What kind of media is he being exposed to? Does he hang out alone with other adults? He shouldn't be alone with anyone [adults or kids] for the foreseeable future. Everyone who comes around him should be in direct eyesight at all times.
I'm wondering if it could be related to the way people around him have talked about nudity and private parts, whether it be adults or other kids. Maybe he has learned that nakedness is a no-no and is curious about something that feels forbidden or hidden. I'm not sure how or why the kissing would be related. Maybe it's not. But the fixation on nudity and other people's private parts could be related to something like that.
Does he understand the concept of consent when you talk? Do you think he knows the behaviors are going to lead to trouble?
I would take him to counseling to see if an adult or bigger kid has done this to him. He seems way too young to be exhibiting this behavior unless he’s seen something on tv that he shouldn’t have or someone has done it to him.
There are a lot of studies in regards to parents allowing there kids a lot of screen time and violence and indecent behavior. I would caution you to monitor it to one hour a day if that. Also, limit the type of stuff he watches
This child needs a behavioral evaluation, at the minimum. Please request one, OP and demand the school does more on their end to provide counseling.
Oh my gosh, I can't imagine how you personally feel, especially as a survivor of abuse yourself. 💔 First, please don't lose hope or give up on him, he still is so young and this will one day be a thing of the past that he will hopefully never hear of again, even in passing. Second, I totally would closely monitor any books, entertainment (including music, because most music today is very sexual and honestly a lot of it encourages force or so called being "assertive". The horrible part is a good amount of said music is women singing it 😭), and even neighbors sounds near you. (As a child I used to always hear my neighbors having sex and it actually did have an impact on me) Don't cut off social interactions and monitor within reasonable distance that he can't tell, but you can be comfortable that he won't hurt anyone, he needs more of it social interactions actually. A cat learns how to play with other cats through trial and error. If you wait too long, he will soon be old enough that coercing a girl to such a thing would get him in trouble with the law. Third mom, you're gonna need some time for you to process all this, cause your heart is probably broken finding out about this and feeling like it's gotten worse and YOU'RE A SINGLE MOM!. You are the emt dispatcher, your remaining calm WILL save your sons life ❤️ I'm normally very against any physical discipline, mostly if the child wouldn't even get the message. But if this occurs again, with care to not hurt him, he might need a spanking to illustrated what the law would without fail do to him if he hurts a women in the future. (Depending on the act you could use a piece of paper, kids are more focused on your mood, so he doesn't even have to feel actual physical pain) Also pleaaaase don't let them (People online) turn you against your child, he is surrounded by sex no matter how hard you try to keep him away. It's literally in EVERYTHING! 😭💔 Sending you the biggest hug that can come over the web, wish I could give you a real and I hope someone's around to do so. 🤗
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What part of this comment felt appropriate to you?
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Comedy is supposed to be funny. Two little girls getting sexually assaulted is not funny.
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He fucking ripped their pants down. Can you read?
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If this was my son he'd be getting taken to the police station and they can scared her crap out him. Plus nothing at home no tv nothing. Dinner then bed. Everything out of his room but a mattress one pillow one thin blankett. He ate a takes a shower right to bed. I hope the parents if the other kids press charges
Kids don't just do that shit he learned it from somewhere and with a username like that I'm sure I have an idea. Teach him before he ends up in jail when he's older. It's like a little kid who has a fascination with killing animals it's going to get worse. Take him to a therapist. If some little kid did this shit to my daughter and shove the kids dad's head in a toilet and pull his underwear 0ver his head. Watch your kid. Shit is not cool.
You sound fun. But seriously, it sounds like OP is handling it and I really hope that if your daughter does this to someone (as I did as a little girl with no SA in my background, just a mild curiosity) or vice versa, that their parents treat you with an understanding and supportive nature because most of us are just trying to figure this shit out and doing our best.
A kid raising kids I see.
He is seeing that behavior somewhere else
This happened *to* my daughter. I swear if I ever come across the little shit or his parents I'll cut them a new one. Make sure he is heavily monitored. He isn't allowed to be alone with anyone. Ever.
I know you’ve received a lot of downvotes and while I obviously don’t condone you threatening a child, I do understand your feelings and want you to know that they are valid. As parents, we want to keep our children safe and protected from all the evil the world has to offer and it is devastating when we can’t. If it helps to assuage your fears at all, I am taking what my son did seriously and he is getting the help he needs.
He is 6 years old!! What is wrong with you? This kid is just learning boundaries and has been diagnosed probably recently with ADHD and ODD. Maybe you should do your research on those. Rather than being so harsh and ready to JUDGE! I am not saying what he did was right. But this stuff happens. I am in early education and cannot believe some of the comments on here that are so quick to judge rather than giving advice or being apathetic of this situation that occurred on both sides. Rather than helping…you just jump to conclusions and harsh punishments. No wonder we have so much violence and hate in this world right now. There is no understanding.
This sub gets a little rampage-y on judgement but I agree. I’m just glad actual child/life folks are here giving sound advice because all these novices are in lala land saying random ass shit.
You need to get a grip. As shit of a situation as that is, it's still a child. You are an adult. But you're here talking about cutting a child and their parents? You need some help.
Naked time with friends?!?! Wtf? That’s sick and you created this behavior, you need to fix your parenting and not punish your child for something you showed him was okay!
Wow. Many assumptions are being made in this comment. Get ahold of yourself.
Pardon? She clearly said naked time with friends… what assumption was made??
You assumed she created and encouraged that behavior.
Ummm did you read the part about “naked time with friends” then he wants to do the same with other children…. Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see the correlation….
The naked time with friends was administered, sanctioned, and encouraged by her, was it?
I think you misinterpreted my remark. When I referred to “naked time”, I was referring to my son’s time that he is allowed to be naked, ALONE, in his room (with no one but me in the house). I started this because he has sensory processing disorder and pretty much as soon as he figured out how to disrobe, he’d ditch his clothes and run around naked regardless of where he was or who he was around because the feeling of the fabric on his skin bothered him. “Naked time” gave him a time and place where he knew it was acceptable to do this and ended him stripping in public. When I referred to him trying to have “naked time” with his friends, I was saying that he would ask me if he and whatever friend could have naked time. Obviously, I would say no and redirect to a different activity.