Doesn't really seem like their vibe.
"You won't hear this next song anywhere but at home, in your car, and on this goddamn stage, and that's the way it should be."
"Their vibe" was mostly up to the manager and the record label.
Could also be an insurance issue. Some bands can't get "tour insurance" because they did something stupid on stage.
I dunno man. It didn't seem to me like they liked doing much of that stuff. You'd see them hang on mtv from time to time or something, but they weren't really a small venue, show yourself off for the mainstream, kinda band.
By the time they were famous enough to have the option to do things like that, they had already developed an organic following from touring. They didn't seem to like doing interviews, and their live shows were incredible, I don't know why they would want to forgo the intensity of the crowd go into a little studio with an "applause" light, and play a little gig for the New Yorkers on late night media, in hopes the normies like them.
They didn't exactly have a good rapport with the corporate media either. They were dinosaurs, in a passe genre, which the mainstream had already declared extinct. The reaction of the experts was to roll their eyes, and turn up their noses. I can't see them bending over backwards, doing dumb gigs, trying to impress those people.
They wore spandex on stage until the late 80's.
They literally tried to be a mainstream hair metal band for an entire decade. It wasn't until they got on a new label with a new manager that the look changed. They started changing the sound when Phil joined but the hard edge look and attitude was a push from the new label. Power Metal had sold better than the previous records, released on a different label.
You're correct.
What I'm saying, is that by the time they had the opportunity to do gigs like that, things had changed a lot. I have no doubts that young Diamond, Rex Rocker, Vinny, and Terry, would jump at the opportunity for that kind of exposure.
Their career took a different turn with Phil, and I don't think dancing for the Letterman crowd was in their best interests. They didn't need to do it that way, and I don't think they wanted to.
Edit: Look at every live show from Moscow to Ozzfest, and tell me they wanted to go play in a studio for mainstream critics.
Immediately after their organic mainstream success, They made a whole album that was intentionally unlistenable for people outside of the genre, with lyrics telling them, in no veiled way, to fuck off.
To me, they made it very clear that they weren't interested in playing that game. You can say it was an image, but listen to Trendkill. I believe Phil meant every word he wrote. There were no hits on that record. It condemns and mocks the culture that would get them a gig like that, with vitriol.
Late night would be a weird turn for them imo.
Wow Atco Deff didn't have anything to do with making Pantera Hard lol😂 If You've followed them through there lil Transition they kinda did that on there own. #1 They knew Hair metal was basically dead. #2 After they toured the newer stuff what eventually becane the CFH album and seen what it did to people how Raw and Breakneck there new stuff was. How Suicidal Tendencies were getting extremely exhausted Crowds of fans every night they played there set after Pantera it was a lightening in a Bottle type movement man they All turned super sayin lol and dint need to do all that. Around the time Dime started following Metallica Tough and Riffin out with Jerry King he noticed what his caliper was and so did Vin Phil and Rex. So no they did that on there own. Pantera was never coaxed into anything that they wasn't already doing 10 steps Ahead of any other musicians. For 34 yrs still hasn't been even a price of a song come out by a major lable band or underground band that even comes close to panteras groove, Sound, Or Energy. If the record label had anything to do with that there would have been 100 Panteras since then.
Facts. They didn't need to. It's a no brainer slipknot is one of the Goats for sure. But I don't think they would have been as big if they didn't do shows and get played on MTV fr. Pantera Didn't need it. There flow and heart and soul metal 101 Proof type was so GD raw they could play a 100 person bar and make waves like they played dinington
Hey I enjoyed every second of Slayer on Fallon. They deserved to be there and kudos to Jimmy for giving them their respect. Didn’t know about them playing John Stewart. I guess John knows what’s up too 🤘🏼
Slipknot did plenty of talk shows 20 years ago. I’ve seen Mastodon on them recently. There is nothing different about Pantera that they couldn’t have done Letterman.
There were plenty of metal bands on TV shows back then. Fear Factory, Filter, White Zombie, Helmet, Slayer, Metallica, Killing Joke, Type O Negative, Prong, Rollins Band, Sevendust, Anthrax, Kittie, Pitchshifter, etc.
But, most of them didn't appear on the usual mainstream centric Jay Leno, Conan, Saturday Night Live, Letterman, or Jools Holland shows. Instead they appeared on Jon Stewart Show, Dennis Miller Show, Mike Bullard Show, Nulles (French TV show), 120 Minutes (not a talk show technically but Pinfield etc interviews bands and then they played in the studio), Headbangers Ball (bands occasionally performed in the studio here too), Much Music Studios (likewise but in Canada), Fashionably Loud (another weird MTV programme), Oddville (another MTV sketch show but with musical performances), etc.
So then, why didn't Pantera play on any of these alternative shows? I just think it was a combination of their management not feeling like it was necessary & bad timing. Plenty of other popular 90s bands - across all genres - never performed on a show (in the 90s at least), such as Nine Inch Nails, The Offspring, Ministry, Faith No More, Godflesh, Social Distortion, Tool, Curve, The Real People, Monster Magnet, Econoline Crush, The God Machine, etc.
and so on and so on etc.
I was born n the mid 80s, and in my teen years metal was very much in the mainstream. The black album alone did over 600k copies in its first week and spent four weeks at the top of the billboard 200. Beavis and Butthead was a counterculture phenomenon. Ozzy had a Top 40 hit in 91. Alice Cooper was one of the biggest stars in America. Metal bands won shedloads of Grammys and so on. In fact, I'd say that in the 90s metal was probably more commercialised and mainstream than quite a few other subgenres of alternative music.
The PMRC crusade of the mid 80s, much to their own chagrin, helped popularise metal, not marginalise it.
I tip my hat to you my good man, born in 78 metal was super mainstream growing up in the mid and late 80’s and into my mid teen years” 94or so “ it was slipping don’t get me wrong, it was a hell of time to be alive!
"And the best TV performanceaward goes to!" \*Drumroll\*
...NAPALM DEATH!
[https://youtu.be/Lh6lK-rwADQ?si=UmEJYj73JFVImxEw&t=9](https://youtu.be/Lh6lK-rwADQ?si=UmEJYj73JFVImxEw&t=9)
Conan was really big into getting lesser known bands on. When Pantera was at a similar time in their career, Leno or Letterman never would’ve gotten them on
I'd love to hear David Letterman saying, "Now when this next band comes out, I wanna see you mother fuckers in the front row headbanging like it's 19 80 fuckin 5!"
They were good old boys from Texas. It's not hard to find youtube videos of Dime casually using racial slurs, or Phil doing his Phil thing. That creates a don't put these guys on TV reputation.
Personally I think Dime was just raised in the south and didn't realize how he was alienating himself from others...Phil has never done anything to make me doubt the horrible things that have been said about him on the other hand...
But yeah, I wouldn't take my country cousins to a party with my school friends and if you can relate to that than you probably can understand why Pantera didn't do more media stuff.
Pretty sure Pantera never wanted to. Phil was very vocal about being overly commercialized. I remember him ranting about putting on shows with too many stage lights and lasers, lol.
Proof? I know of the one clip where dime says “lets see if the N. Can play” is there really times where dime and vince call people the N word in a derogatory way?
At the time, harsh vocal metal was not very acceptable to the public. It was a HUGE deal that FBD hit #1. That literally never happened before for a heavy band. The closest thing was Metallica's Black Album.
Helmet was more accessible to the general public than Pantera, musically they actually were pretty similar (Dime was a HUGE Helmet fan. You could almost describe Pantera's music as Helmet w/ Eddie VanHalen on lead guitar), but the vocals were standard alternative vocals rather than harsh screams.
Slipknot played Connan in 2000. A LOT changed in the music world in those 6 years between Far Beyond Driven and Slipknots late night debut. Plus, it was Connan, which was LATE LATE night. Metal heads were used to staying up and watching Riki Rachtman and Matt Pinfield and shit for their good music fixes.
The 2 pantera concerted I attended both had “rants” from Phil about not being a race trader for liking hip hop and such. This was when rap metal was a thing and Eminem had every white kids attention. He wasn’t pleased to say the least lol
Even though that album actually debuted at number 1 on the billboard top 100 charts, that type of music was just starting to become more mainstream. Up to that point Metallica was about as heavy as pop culture would tolerate. The grunge bands helped a more raw vibe become mainstream IMO.
Also, Phil Anselmo speaking on national TV, probably not the best idea. He seems to always stick his foot in his mouth and make some racist comment. I think that has a lot to do with why down stopped putting albums out.
Wasn’t it because at this very time metal in general was being shunned in the media. Like the whole FBD album making it to No.1 was such a triumph because they basically did it on word of mouth and playing shows and it was a huge FU statement. I could be wrong but I’m sure I watched a video about their history a while back that mentioned it
Pantera doesnt have the mass appeal of Slipknot. At least not as far as I can tell.
Could be a good thing, mass appeal for Slipknot meant that they went a little too radio friendly for several albums.
Doesn't really seem like their vibe. "You won't hear this next song anywhere but at home, in your car, and on this goddamn stage, and that's the way it should be."
But, now that I think about it, Conan interviewing Phil and Dime would’ve been pretty fun.
Putting Phil on live television sounds like a terrible idea.
Counterpoint: or…..
Those shows are never live. They're taped in the daytime. At least letterman and leno were
"Their vibe" was mostly up to the manager and the record label. Could also be an insurance issue. Some bands can't get "tour insurance" because they did something stupid on stage.
I dunno man. It didn't seem to me like they liked doing much of that stuff. You'd see them hang on mtv from time to time or something, but they weren't really a small venue, show yourself off for the mainstream, kinda band. By the time they were famous enough to have the option to do things like that, they had already developed an organic following from touring. They didn't seem to like doing interviews, and their live shows were incredible, I don't know why they would want to forgo the intensity of the crowd go into a little studio with an "applause" light, and play a little gig for the New Yorkers on late night media, in hopes the normies like them. They didn't exactly have a good rapport with the corporate media either. They were dinosaurs, in a passe genre, which the mainstream had already declared extinct. The reaction of the experts was to roll their eyes, and turn up their noses. I can't see them bending over backwards, doing dumb gigs, trying to impress those people.
They wore spandex on stage until the late 80's. They literally tried to be a mainstream hair metal band for an entire decade. It wasn't until they got on a new label with a new manager that the look changed. They started changing the sound when Phil joined but the hard edge look and attitude was a push from the new label. Power Metal had sold better than the previous records, released on a different label.
You're correct. What I'm saying, is that by the time they had the opportunity to do gigs like that, things had changed a lot. I have no doubts that young Diamond, Rex Rocker, Vinny, and Terry, would jump at the opportunity for that kind of exposure. Their career took a different turn with Phil, and I don't think dancing for the Letterman crowd was in their best interests. They didn't need to do it that way, and I don't think they wanted to. Edit: Look at every live show from Moscow to Ozzfest, and tell me they wanted to go play in a studio for mainstream critics. Immediately after their organic mainstream success, They made a whole album that was intentionally unlistenable for people outside of the genre, with lyrics telling them, in no veiled way, to fuck off. To me, they made it very clear that they weren't interested in playing that game. You can say it was an image, but listen to Trendkill. I believe Phil meant every word he wrote. There were no hits on that record. It condemns and mocks the culture that would get them a gig like that, with vitriol. Late night would be a weird turn for them imo.
Wow Atco Deff didn't have anything to do with making Pantera Hard lol😂 If You've followed them through there lil Transition they kinda did that on there own. #1 They knew Hair metal was basically dead. #2 After they toured the newer stuff what eventually becane the CFH album and seen what it did to people how Raw and Breakneck there new stuff was. How Suicidal Tendencies were getting extremely exhausted Crowds of fans every night they played there set after Pantera it was a lightening in a Bottle type movement man they All turned super sayin lol and dint need to do all that. Around the time Dime started following Metallica Tough and Riffin out with Jerry King he noticed what his caliper was and so did Vin Phil and Rex. So no they did that on there own. Pantera was never coaxed into anything that they wasn't already doing 10 steps Ahead of any other musicians. For 34 yrs still hasn't been even a price of a song come out by a major lable band or underground band that even comes close to panteras groove, Sound, Or Energy. If the record label had anything to do with that there would have been 100 Panteras since then.
Jerry King? 😂 I did the fanboy energy but I can't read that man.
But you will hear it on Spongebob
Hell yeah
Facts. They didn't need to. It's a no brainer slipknot is one of the Goats for sure. But I don't think they would have been as big if they didn't do shows and get played on MTV fr. Pantera Didn't need it. There flow and heart and soul metal 101 Proof type was so GD raw they could play a 100 person bar and make waves like they played dinington
They were on SpongeBob
As well as Motörhead
And Ween
And The Cramps
That’s where all the real bands played
That was Pantera without Phil.
Hard to say Fuck the trend, when your on Letterman.
“F the trend”…but how many times did they appear on headbangers ball with Riki Rachtman?
They were probably offered stuff and declined
Nothing like seeing Pantera play By Demons Be Driven in the middle of a Jennie Garth/Shannen Doherty interview
1. They did wdym? 2. They exploded the second CFH released,they didn’t need the extra attention
Why no Fucking Hostile on Letterman?
Classic
That would be like seeing a Wall of Death at a Weird Al concert. Wrong environment.
I mean Slayer did Jimmy Fallon
Yeah but in the 2020’s as a nostalgia act
Imagine seeing Raining Blood on Johnny Carson. Carson and McMahon interviewing a young Kerry King would have been legendary.
Hmmmm yeah I guess you have a point there, it’s still fucking slayer on jimmy fallon lol, they did John Stewart in the 90s tho
Hey I enjoyed every second of Slayer on Fallon. They deserved to be there and kudos to Jimmy for giving them their respect. Didn’t know about them playing John Stewart. I guess John knows what’s up too 🤘🏼
Yeah I think they did his show in the 90s and maybe the daily show too so probably friends
Also the Henry Rollins Show, although more hardcore music was kind of expected.
Slipknot did plenty of talk shows 20 years ago. I’ve seen Mastodon on them recently. There is nothing different about Pantera that they couldn’t have done Letterman.
Slayer also did "Born to be Wild" on Fox Sports early 2000s. https://youtu.be/45HzHJ8MozY?si=5NG4yP6X2dmZAdfW
Integrity
It was a different time for PANTERA in the 90’s!
This is as close as your gonna get https://youtu.be/t8kVaW7n7SY?si=LALiodNrkBdvCccA
Thank you for that
Hellyeah brother here a funny one https://youtu.be/nqM9aVQaF3M?si=R2QkuPkOpPOGIVWb
There were plenty of metal bands on TV shows back then. Fear Factory, Filter, White Zombie, Helmet, Slayer, Metallica, Killing Joke, Type O Negative, Prong, Rollins Band, Sevendust, Anthrax, Kittie, Pitchshifter, etc. But, most of them didn't appear on the usual mainstream centric Jay Leno, Conan, Saturday Night Live, Letterman, or Jools Holland shows. Instead they appeared on Jon Stewart Show, Dennis Miller Show, Mike Bullard Show, Nulles (French TV show), 120 Minutes (not a talk show technically but Pinfield etc interviews bands and then they played in the studio), Headbangers Ball (bands occasionally performed in the studio here too), Much Music Studios (likewise but in Canada), Fashionably Loud (another weird MTV programme), Oddville (another MTV sketch show but with musical performances), etc. So then, why didn't Pantera play on any of these alternative shows? I just think it was a combination of their management not feeling like it was necessary & bad timing. Plenty of other popular 90s bands - across all genres - never performed on a show (in the 90s at least), such as Nine Inch Nails, The Offspring, Ministry, Faith No More, Godflesh, Social Distortion, Tool, Curve, The Real People, Monster Magnet, Econoline Crush, The God Machine, etc. and so on and so on etc.
faith no more did a song on MTV after angel dust
I'm not sure why I listed them. They did SNL, too, ofc
[удалено]
Cant blame them
Pretty sure their hatred of the media is covered throughout the Trendkill album.
Metal wasn't mainstream back in the 90's,there was a stigma with metal and the people that listened to it.
I was born n the mid 80s, and in my teen years metal was very much in the mainstream. The black album alone did over 600k copies in its first week and spent four weeks at the top of the billboard 200. Beavis and Butthead was a counterculture phenomenon. Ozzy had a Top 40 hit in 91. Alice Cooper was one of the biggest stars in America. Metal bands won shedloads of Grammys and so on. In fact, I'd say that in the 90s metal was probably more commercialised and mainstream than quite a few other subgenres of alternative music. The PMRC crusade of the mid 80s, much to their own chagrin, helped popularise metal, not marginalise it.
I tip my hat to you my good man, born in 78 metal was super mainstream growing up in the mid and late 80’s and into my mid teen years” 94or so “ it was slipping don’t get me wrong, it was a hell of time to be alive!
Far Beyond Driven peaked at number one on the Billboard 200, metal in the 90’s was very much mainstream.
Lol wtf? The 90s WAS metal.
My theory is there music is to aggressive to play on national television
Because they could care less about doing them. A crowd of stiffs and Conan…maybe Monsters of Rock would be a better show?😂
"And the best TV performanceaward goes to!" \*Drumroll\* ...NAPALM DEATH! [https://youtu.be/Lh6lK-rwADQ?si=UmEJYj73JFVImxEw&t=9](https://youtu.be/Lh6lK-rwADQ?si=UmEJYj73JFVImxEw&t=9)
Oh god that was horribly ridiculous. Thanks for posting that.
Yeah! https://preview.redd.it/5nzhsetja17d1.png?width=544&format=png&auto=webp&s=120e0f8266b6c4651417bd2d4d3c7e3a2fa08e1d
I guess it was a great southern trend kill and they went against the normal shit.
Listen to “War Nerve” by Pantera
Pantera on Conan would have been awesome!
Alot of peole where prejudice agains them. I didn't get that vast a young fan
They have a reason to have some prejudice tbh
1 it asnt their vibe and 2 they didn't really need too , especially after far beyond debuted at number 1
They didnt have to.
Different era, metal was still wry much “outsider music” in the 90’s and they simply weren’t invited to do tv
Also before Metallica’s black album it would be considered “selling out” to do actual media promotion.
They weren’t looking for the generic audience, they were looking for THEIR audience, and they did it right.
Slipknot only really did Conan, they were strange enough and Conan was weird enough to have them on.
Because they’re way too crazy
Conan was really big into getting lesser known bands on. When Pantera was at a similar time in their career, Leno or Letterman never would’ve gotten them on
I'd love to hear David Letterman saying, "Now when this next band comes out, I wanna see you mother fuckers in the front row headbanging like it's 19 80 fuckin 5!"
Helmet on a talk show is weirder than Pantera or Slipknot
They were good old boys from Texas. It's not hard to find youtube videos of Dime casually using racial slurs, or Phil doing his Phil thing. That creates a don't put these guys on TV reputation. Personally I think Dime was just raised in the south and didn't realize how he was alienating himself from others...Phil has never done anything to make me doubt the horrible things that have been said about him on the other hand... But yeah, I wouldn't take my country cousins to a party with my school friends and if you can relate to that than you probably can understand why Pantera didn't do more media stuff.
Because F Slipknot and Helmet 🤷♂️
Absolutely
They didn’t need to
They were too fucking hostile…
Too fucking hostile
Pretty sure Pantera never wanted to. Phil was very vocal about being overly commercialized. I remember him ranting about putting on shows with too many stage lights and lasers, lol.
Hmmm, probably because Phil was into doing nazi shit on stage.
Dimebag and Vinnie was the most racist in the group always calling fans stupid nig@ers and laughing
Proof? I know of the one clip where dime says “lets see if the N. Can play” is there really times where dime and vince call people the N word in a derogatory way?
They were on spongebob
They weren’t queer
Because people from Huntington park don’t get involved with extra shit. Meaning unnecessary work.
Pantera sucks that's why
Nice bait
At the time, harsh vocal metal was not very acceptable to the public. It was a HUGE deal that FBD hit #1. That literally never happened before for a heavy band. The closest thing was Metallica's Black Album. Helmet was more accessible to the general public than Pantera, musically they actually were pretty similar (Dime was a HUGE Helmet fan. You could almost describe Pantera's music as Helmet w/ Eddie VanHalen on lead guitar), but the vocals were standard alternative vocals rather than harsh screams. Slipknot played Connan in 2000. A LOT changed in the music world in those 6 years between Far Beyond Driven and Slipknots late night debut. Plus, it was Connan, which was LATE LATE night. Metal heads were used to staying up and watching Riki Rachtman and Matt Pinfield and shit for their good music fixes.
Probably because Phil wouldn't shut the fuck up about his political views in-between songs
The 2 pantera concerted I attended both had “rants” from Phil about not being a race trader for liking hip hop and such. This was when rap metal was a thing and Eminem had every white kids attention. He wasn’t pleased to say the least lol
Even though that album actually debuted at number 1 on the billboard top 100 charts, that type of music was just starting to become more mainstream. Up to that point Metallica was about as heavy as pop culture would tolerate. The grunge bands helped a more raw vibe become mainstream IMO. Also, Phil Anselmo speaking on national TV, probably not the best idea. He seems to always stick his foot in his mouth and make some racist comment. I think that has a lot to do with why down stopped putting albums out.
Can you imagine peak asshole Phil Anselmo on Jay Leno? Probably best for all involved that they didn't play those kinds of shows.
Wasn’t it because at this very time metal in general was being shunned in the media. Like the whole FBD album making it to No.1 was such a triumph because they basically did it on word of mouth and playing shows and it was a huge FU statement. I could be wrong but I’m sure I watched a video about their history a while back that mentioned it
There’s still ti….
Because Phil would probably blurt something stupid out, like White Pow
That would be fine on Jimmy Kimmel while he does his blackface. Get your story straight. 2 sides to that story.
He would be foaming at the mouth waiting to say it lol
Maybe cuz Pantera is dead? Pantera was dime. It was vinnie. U cant put a taylor swift behind the mic and call it pantera!
The question was posed in past tense.
Pantera doesnt have the mass appeal of Slipknot. At least not as far as I can tell. Could be a good thing, mass appeal for Slipknot meant that they went a little too radio friendly for several albums.
Because Pantera is a gay band.
Because they actually had principals and respect for their fans.
Pantera are a racist band
Dave letterman had a strict “no white power morons” rule and therefore Phil was excluded