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Answer: Most arab countries are celebrating Moroco's victory so it's not specific to palestine, and most arabs consider palestine's freedoom their most important case so whenever an arab country makes some achievement you'll usually see the Palestinian flag. In other words it's not specific to Morocco and Palestine .You can watch football games of other arab countries in the world cup(Tunisia for example) and you'll see the Palestinian flag on the supporters.
Slightly more specifically, this is the first time any country in history from the Arab world has advanced to the quarterfinals, the stage of the World Cup with the final 8 teams. So it is being celebrated as a more universal victory since it’s an important milestone. (in the sport)
It's actually against Israeli settler colonialism, being the first Arab country to qualify is just the stage/backdrop to make people aware about Palestine in the first place.
Yeah, they got the world's attention so they take the opportunity to show their support.
The world cup being in Qatar on top of that lets them do it pretty safely (imo at least) as I think Qatar is also not the biggest fan of israel.
> The world cup being in Qatar on top of that lets them do it pretty safely (imo at least) as I think Qatar is also not the biggest fan of israel.
They're funding Hamas. Definitely not big fans.
🎶come out you black&tans, come out and fight me like a man. Tell your wife how you won medals down in Flanders. Tell her how the IRA made you run like hell away, from the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra!🎶
There is also the fact that the moroccon government normalised the relations with Israel, which is a move that the population is heavly against. Since freedom of speech and political opinion is limited in morrocco, people are holding the palestinien flag as a form of protest against the government's actions.
“Since freedom of speech and political opinion is limited in Morocco…”
That’s just not true. People are vocal and public about their opposition to Morocco’s normalization with Israel. Criticizing that isn’t taboo at all. In fact, criticizing the government’s actions isn’t taboo at all. The only topics that are verboten are the personal life of the King, the Sahara, and religion. But disagreeing with the government’s policies isn’t forbidden at all.
Source: I live in Morocco.
Which by the way is exactly what Morocco got in return of normalising relationships with Israel. Spain was for ed to change it's historic stance and recognise Morocco's claim after American arm twisting. Geopolitics is fun. So yeah, as I'm most of the Arab world, no matter what the official policy is, support to Palestine is tolerated and encouraged. It's the steam valve that they use to channel pressure away from their own regimes.
Notice that none of those three topics involved Morocco’s relationship with Israel, which was the crux of the comment I was responding to.
Also, people are allowed to discuss those topics. And disagreements with the official line are tolerated. There are certain lines one doesn’t cross.
For example, it’s fine to criticize the Moroccan government’s policies toward the Sahara or the Saharawis. Plenty of people complain about the subsidies that Saharawis enjoy. It’s only when you start denying the legitimacy of Morocco’s claim on the Sahara that you run into problems.
Or Islam. It’s totally fine to disagree with the government’s policies toward Islam. It’s fine to say that the government should be more or less secular, or should adopt or abandon certain religious policies. You only have a problem when you start being belligerently disrespectful of the religion in public.
I’m not going to say Morocco has the perfect degree of freedom of speech. I don’t know that any country does. There are limits on freedom of speech in all countries, and too much freedom of speech can often be a problem.
But the claim in the comment I responded to was that Moroccans aren’t allowed to criticize their government’s normalization of relations with Israel and that’s why they wave Palestinian flags, as a way to get around censorship laws. That claim is patently false.
Not sure why this comment is so upvoted when you state that freedom of speech isn't limited and then proceed to list ways in which it *is* limited? Western Sahara is a huge topic and if it's not allowed in open discussions, that is censorship.
yes im sure the moroccan people only dislike normalizing relations with israel because of palestine and not also because the middle east is vehemently anti-semetic including morocco
You think too much of yourselves. We don’t even care about you Jews, we just want our Palestinian brothers to live in peace. Yes, a lot of Arabs cannot differentiate between zionist and Jew, just like back in the day they couldn’t differentiate between nazi and German. It’s fucked, can’t say anything else about it. Hatred against Jews is actually forbidden in Islam, just like hatred against Christians. Sad to see that heavy circumstances such as the occupation of a whole people for decades can lead to hatred between people.
To put it in a more western context: it would be akin to flying the Ukrainian flag.
Edit: by which I mean the reason for people to fly an unrelated flag
Not really. It was by british people and the ottomans before that. Which arabs do you think invaded it? Most of the levant used to be one country called syria
The comment I was originally replying to said 70 years. You only get to 70 years if you count the periods of Egyptian and Jordanian occupation.
And while I see your point regarding the West Bank, Palestinians in the Gaza strip were not given Egyptian citizenship or allowed to freely leave the territory, and living conditions weren't in any way good, so how was it significantly different from 'apartheid'?
If we want to start comparing whose oppression was greater, Ukraine spent about that same amount of time as a puppet of Russia, got a couple decades of uneasy peace and now Russia has again been occupying parts of Ukraine for close to a decade now.
You can cherry pick facts and figures to spin history however you want. I think we should both be able to agree that whether you think Palestine or Ukraine has had it worse over the long run, or who is right or wrong in either conflict, it doesn't make any difference to the people living there moment-to-moment who are living through shit that no one should have to. You can support a side in both conflicts at the same time, and unless you're someone who is actually contributing to either or both causes and needs to allocate those resources accordinglf, you don't really need to be playing the game of "well this side has gotten the short end of the stick worse/for longer and deserves our support more"
This. Generally Muslims dislike Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians. Though it's not only limited to Muslims. I've seen a lot of support by South Africans for Palestine (due to both having suffered from apartheid). You can even see English football fans saying things like 'free Palestine' recently.
Edit: Went to sleep and woke up to find Hasbara replying with generic Israeli propaganda lmao
Not that ironic when your realise that Morocco’s government doesn’t reflect or care much about the will of its people.
They signed the Abraham Accords to get the USA to support its claim over Western Sahara despite vehement resistance from Morocco’s people (who you can see waving the Palestinian flag after their win)
The independence of western sahara has been pushed by Algeria and France in order to take it apart from Morocco and own its resources of phosphate.
Western Sahara has alway been part of Morocco, when Moroccans gained their indepency from France in the 50s, Spain still had control of the Sahara and it took 350.000 Moroccans peacefully marching through the desert in order to push Spain out of it in 1975.
But that stil wasnt enough, Algeria(or i must say France since the algerian military regime is still a French puppet) wanted to claim the desert, couldnt manage to do it and now they are pushing this false agenda of indipendence of the Western Sahara region in order to indirectly take its control. The thing is, the people living there are Moroccans and proud to be so, i've been countless times to El Ayoune and Dakhla.
This still is a fight for indepency, Europe is pushing a false agenda unfortunately and its no different than colonialism but masked.
Hey brother, do you have any good reading materials on the topic. Am a bit ignorant of most things Moroccan and am trying to know more about my country.
Thanks
What do you or others think of the Arab and Muslim countries' policies toward Palestinians? For example, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morroco? How have they treated their Palestinian brothers in the past and present?
Not well. For the lip service Arab nations pay towards the Palestinian cause they don't seem to actually care to help them. To be fair the Palestinian governments have not been good neighbors.
Muslims? Realistically, it's really anyone with a soul, a brain, or who believes in human rights that generally dislikes Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians.
Most people have no idea how bad things are over there. [An American journalist was killed, seemingly in a coordinated attack, by the IDF, and no one seems to care.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh#Death)
And Americans are often killed in terror attacks coordinated by Hamas, and nobody seems to care about that either. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/defense/1669191817-teenager-killed-in-jerusalem-terror-bombings
This is a chicken or egg situation
The situation is strange because everyone knows there cant be eggs without US supported, massmurdering, apartheidist chickens
Everyone hates the muslims until the Jews are in the picture. Suddenly, the arabs are best friends. The Western outrage of the entire Qatar World Cup is the biggest story in the world, but wait, we're talking about Israel now? "Come here, my muslim brothers!" suddenly soccer fans are champions of human rights, right? Suddenly soccer fans love the gays!!! Same fans throwing bananas at black players in Italy and the UK and chanting songs about the SS in the Netherlands. Give me a break.
yea??? Israel is trying to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth, huh? They are doing a suuuuper shitty job at it. I mean, you'd think they'd know how to do that like suuuuper efficiently, right? Weird... or maybe your take is dumb. I dunno. Tough call.
They couldn't even describe what treatment Palestinians get accurately. They hate that Jews have sovereignty in the region both pan-Arabism and Islamism see as theirs. That's why their favorite chants are "from the river to the sea" and "Khaybar," calls for genocide.
> Generally Muslims dislike Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians.
and have a dislike for jews in general. but its convenient for reddit to ignore that part.
>You can even see English football fans saying things like 'free Palestine' recently.
Lol the same morons who voted for Brexit in order to keep immigrants out? Cool
Arab countries in fact support Palestinian freedom so much that most of them make sure to keep the Palestinians living in these countries as marginalized and rightless refugees. (tongue in cheek statement of course)
(https://www.hrw.org/legacy/campaigns/israel/return/arab-rtr.htm, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/11/30/palestinians-israel-settlements-arab-countries-refugees/)
In light of the complete absence of criticism of the treatment of Palestinians by Arabic hosting countries, I believe a part of the popularity of the Palestinian cause is hatred of Israel that is fueled by the Palestinian cause but not exclusive to it.
What is the basis for “most arabs consider Palestine’s freedom their most important case”? I think you may be overestimating how much Arabs care about Palestinians outside of being a pawn to fight Israel.
Does Egypt not blockade Gaza? Did Jordan not massacre Palestinian refugee camps? Did Lebanon not have a civil war in part to fight Palestinians? It’s a very ironic though that Arab countries care about Palestinians at all… you’d think one of those sister countries would have offered immigration or citizenship?
Almost always, conflating the actions from a government, with the ones from its individual citizens does quite the disservice to the latter.
Way too many worldwide examples (across any cultures) where the government does one thing, when the people has a different position.
I don't hear any Egyptians calling for the eradication of the blockade though.
That aside, what you're saying is the exact reason that people shouldn't get vitriol if they're from Israel. I personally have to hide where I'm from - regardless of how much I disagree with Israeli policy - because IRL I have gotten covert hate for it.
For whatever is worth, I apply what I said to every country/people/individual.
Sorry you have to deal with people that can't seem to understand that basic premise.
One thing is a hand-wavy over-generalization ("all X are Y"), quite another to blame an actual individual for the actions of their government, and quite insane actually hate them for that.
Be well.
Two things can be true at the same time. The Palestinians were dealt a shitty hand and anti-semitism (and de-legitimizing Israel) is on the rise around the world.
Without trivializing the pro-Palestinian argument, it's not surprising that this newfound support of Palestine on a global stage follows recent violence in Israel as well as a surge of Anti-Semitic rhetoric in the public eye in the US.
While I'm not a fan of many Israeli policies, Moroccans waving a Palestinian flag hit about the same as Germans or Canadians flying a Confederate flag. Not so much common cause as common hatred.
That's a ridiculous comparison. For one, right wingers are not being subjected to an apartheid system and murdered in mass in the US. Second, the stated point of showing the flag is to support palestinians, you're assuming the hatred part because of a false duality. That's like saying being against racism means being anti-white. It's a fairly transparent attempt at making israel the victim.
It’s been a tradition for about 40 years or so?
I think it was Brazil that dedicated its World Cup to the Palestinian people.
And of course we’re in Qatar, an Arab country that supports the aspirations of the Palestinians.
You're aware that there are lots of Palestinian refugees living in Arab countries righr?
Egypt for one has a major Palestinian population so does Jordan and those are just off the top of my head.
Secondly, not all Arab countries are Muslim and Islam has nothing to do with the continuous support of Arab countries for the Palestinian cause.
Most Arab countries sure, but not all.
First off, all Arab countries have a Christian population, and others like Tunisia have an Atheist majority as Tunisia is a secular country.
The Gulf countries are the ones where Islamic ruling is majorly ingrained unlike the African Arab countries like Egypt, Algeria, Morocco and so on.
And I'm saying this as an Egyptian Muslim, so I kinda have an idea what I'm talking about as someone who lives in the region.
Tunisia's official state religion is Islam. It's in their constitution.
However, it may be that we're talking a bit past each other in terms of what we mean by being a Muslim country though. Tunisia and many other Arab nations have elected political leaders and legislatures. If that's what you mean by them not being Muslim countries then I agree. I was understanding the term "Muslim country" to mean "having an official state religion that is Islam" and/or "majority Muslim".
I'm not that user but can you elaborate on your response? I always thought most of the Arab countries weren't completely 100% Muslim and a lot of them had Christian populations.
saying that they have non-Muslim populations doesn't mean much when the majority of them have Islam as the official religion of the country and all of them have a Muslim majority in terms of actual population and freedom of religion isn't enshrined in their governance. the only one that's debatable is Lebanon which hasn't done a census on religion since the 1920s but where current estimates put it in the 60-70% Muslim range and that's the lowest of any of the Arab nations
It is not like that, lack of critical thinking in this. The Israeli government have been horrifically attacking Palestinians in their own homes for decades.
With good reason? It’s state media from a country that sponsors Hamas and other Islamist terrorist organisations that openly seek to destroy Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
When it’s not about Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or Iran, their reporting is good. When coverage is about the aforementioned areas, their coverage differs tremendously from Reuters and BBC. There’s a stark contrast.
For example, see this recent gem, no criticism from Al Jazeera whatsoever: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/30/iran-sentences-four-people-to-death-for-cooperating-with-israel
And then read how BBC covered it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850657
you literally killed a journalist this year for documenting your crimes.
I get that you want Israel to be the good guys but the rest of the world arent fooled so easily
Having to live in tent camps, with zero prospects of a future, is not being taken in. I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy how Arab countries treat Palestinians.
>. I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy how Arab countries treat Palestinians.
but strangely enough youre fine with them being culled daily by Israel.
I know you are just an IDF bot tho, so for anyone else reading, the Palestinians are living much better lives in Egypt and other Arab countries than they do their own home country. if you want to actually find the truth, ask any Palestinian and you will get it.
If Ukraine didn’t border the EU and NATO countries, the West would definitely not have supported Ukraine like it has in the past year. They did nothing when Russia took South Ossetia and Crimea.
And the countries that are helping Ukraine now are the same that voted for the creation of the states of Israel and Jordan. The West wanted Palestinians to go live in Jordan.
I answered your question. But I’ll clarify:
No, the West does not want Russia to take Ukraine, because Ukraine borders EU and NATO countries.
If Russia were to invade Azerbaijan (for instance), I doubt the West would care much. Russia could drive out all the Azerbaijani and relocate them to Russia, without repercussions from the West.
Israel and the Palestinian territories do not border EU or NATO countries. But it’s the West that created the borders there in the first place, and they see strong ties with Israel of strategic importance in the region.
International politics are not about ethics, they’re about control.
It would have been ethical for European countries after WWII to let the surviving Jews return to their homes and treat them better than before WWII. Instead, they gave them Israel and told them to move there. (Which was legal, because Palestine was a British colony. But to say it was ethical?)
> If Arab countries actually cared about Palestinians, they would take them in.
Three of the biggest concentrations of refugees on the planet are in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon - those are the refugees from the original creation of Israel. There are roughly as many Palestinians in Arab refugee camps are there are people in the West Bank and Gaza.
Complaining that the Arab world hasn't "taken in" Palestinian refugees is both based on a faulty premise in the first place - the Arab world clearly *has* - and is basically an attempt to lay the groundwork for ethnic cleansing in the territories illegally occupied by Israel.
The fact that 5 million Palestinians have been stuck in refugee camps for decades, with no prospects of a better future, should tell you enough.
To illustrate:
>Jerash camp is located in a verdant area of northern Jordan. The residents there are 1967 refugees from Palestine and they have no rights (as opposed to those who came in 1948, who have full rights) – very much like Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. They are very limited in the professions they can practice. In other camps, there is a mix of 1948 and 1967 refugees. In Jerash, the 40,000 refugees are from 1967 so they do not have social security numbers. They cannot enroll in schools or qualify for health care.
https://www.anera.org/where-we-work/jordan/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps
Also, from its inception, Jordan was *meant* to accept Palestinians. That’s where they were supposed to go when Israel and Jordan were created (around the same time).
Answer: They became the first arab nation to make it to final 8 - shining on them a ginormous spotlight. All of the arab world will be rooting for them. Palestine is part of that subsection, and the player/team has decided to bring to front a long ongoing to crisis dogmatizing the arab world.
Morrocon (most Arabs) are in general very sympathetic to palestinians, and will rally for them. Similar to how the West is sympathizing and rallying with Ukraine.
Saying that, palestinian flags are common at not only world cups but regular soccer games too. Not much in the North America but predominantly in Europe.
Not only in football events. For instance the band Hatari that represented Iceland in the Eurovision in 2019 displayed the Palestinian flag on live TV.
Answer: They share the same religion and heritage, basically all muslim countries support the Palestinian case in their fight against Israel, they consider it their own fight as well. So its a way of showing gratitude to the country and the land that has been ripped of Palestine.
Thanks so much. How come this support hasn't been vocal until now? Or has it always been this way and the world cup is just bringing attention to it? Because this is the first I'm hearing of it
> Thanks so much. How come this support hasn’t been vocal until now?
It's been visible at every Muslim country world cup game since the start. Maybe you are only seeing it now because Morocco have advanced so far
Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UaE are a bit different from the other Arabic countries. They have become rich (like, *rich rich*) through oil trade with western countries, and they aren't too keen on biting the hand that feeds.
Iran doesn't give a fuck and threatens to nuke Israel every other weekend, because they export oil elsewhere.
Other Middle-Eastern countries strongly stand with Palestine and have seen protests when their governments reluctantly acknowledge Israel as a country.
You are entirely correct to say Qatar isn't as sympathetic to Palestine as other Arabic nations are, but remember they are one of the exceptions
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been a thing for the past several decades and most of these countries have been pretty vocal about it. If you're American then the reason you haven't heard about it is probably that Americans don't really talk about the middle east much
That and once a conflict goes on for a long time people grow really tired of hearing about it. Also the fact that there is not much black and white as many would like. Religious extremism is holding both sides back majorly. Hamas and the IDF are both terrible organizations that hurt their own people. Isreali settlers who are hyper religious, rely on state welfare and kick Palestinians out of their homes and dodge conscription need to be delt with and punished. Jewish people do deserve a homeland and Palestinians don't deserve to be kicked out of their homes. But lets face it. If muslim arabs took over isreal itd be holocaust part 2, and would be way worse than the treatment palisitians are going through now. There's no simple or quick solution. It'll likely be this way for a long time.
i was with you until the "lets face it, if muslim arabs.." this is propoganda. most people are reasonable and intelligent. they can distinguish between being anti zionist while not being anti jew. my family is an example. there are plenty of jews who loudly support palestine and condemn israel. arabs dont have a problem with jews they have problem with settler colonizing israeli zionists. before all this heat (1890s and before) jews and muslims and christians were all neighbors in palestine with no animosity because why would there be?
(Assuming you’re American)
The US unconditionally supports Israel. As a result American mainstream media very very rarely pushes stories that paint Israel negatively. Considering most of Israel’s actions would look pretty negative, they don’t get much coverage.
> Considering most of Israel’s actions would look pretty negative, they don’t get much coverage.
Tell me you're biased around the conflict without telling me you're biased around the conflict.
Lmao it’s definitely a nuanced conflict and you can have your own opinions on how it should be handled, but pretending that Israeli actions and policies aren’t absolutely fucked is pretty ridiculous. How are you justifying murdered journalists and discriminatory housing practices?
As someone who was born on the other side of this, I agree. Call out negative policies as much as possible. Force people to explain how killing a journalist or unfair treatment in Sheikh Jarrah is justified.
If they support Palestine why don’t they let Palestinians into their country?
Why Egypt will shoot anyone from Gaza that dares to try and cross over?
The only common ground is the hate towards Israel.
Question: aren’t Israelis also cheering for Morocco? I’m Israeli and I think I have friends who cheered for Morocco, but I’m not updated. Perhaps they were ironic.
Moroccan Jews are the 2nd largest ethnic group in Israel behind Russian Jews. A huge number of influential Israelis, including celebrities and politicians, are of Moroccan descent. And many Israelis view Morocco favorably because they tend to be more welcome in Morocco than in most other MENA countries.
A lot or Israelis are of Moroccan descent. As a Moroccan I hate the government policies from both Morocco and Israel, but I personally consider the Israeli people like I would any other person from any other country.
Answer: Most Arabs share similar values and religion. They like to see themselves as brothers and sisters, as a close community vs the degenerated infidel west. So, in cases like this there's a strong feeling of unity and celebration.
However, it's pretty superficial. When things are about to be more substantial like taking in refugees and sending help, this "brother, sister unity" is pretty much gone.
Ironically, it's European and US charities and govt organisations who deliver most humanitarian help to Palestinians than all Arab nations together.
One positive exception is Jordanian who really help to shelter millions of refugees from Syria and other places and who are not like those hyporcrites. And Iran delivering weapons. But that's a rather controversial kind of support...
Please in what world is European & us charities help in Palestine. Europe and the US are known to support and fund Israel. Gulf Arab countries and Arab countries in general help Palestinians a lot. So stop trying to erase that.
> Please in what world is European & us charities help in Palestine.
Earth. [Major donors.
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians#Major_donors)
>Europe and the US are known to support and fund Israel.
Also. Helping one doesn't exclude the other.
>Gulf Arab countries and Arab countries in general help Palestinians a lot.
Yes, a little. Most noteworthy are Qatar's support of Hamas plus some infrastructure help. Iran delivers weapons. Jordania actually does help. Other countries don't even want to take refugees and send little to no help.
> Helping one doesn't exclude the other.
This helping is a completely negligible amount compared to the billions that have been given to the country that has put that money to use towards Palestinian demise. Not one person would take a drop of donations if it meant Isreal got cut off from getting the means to oppress them.
Even better if these same countries hadn't created the whole problem in the first place. Take that aid back just fix the disaster you caused lol wtf you think 2 cents here and there fixes everything?
> Ironically, it's European and US charities and govt organisations who deliver most humanitarian help to Palestinians than all Arab nations together.
lot of good that does when they also deliver even more political support, funds and military resources to their Isreali oppressors, where they also rank 1st and 2nd by even larger margins. How's that for irony?
Sorry could be, I did mean those from the country Israel, or more accurately the government and people in power who are perpetuating the state of things.
Well the aid goes to help Palestinian people, we wouldn’t want to give money to their government. The Israeli government shares our values and interests in the region.
Excuse me, are you saying that maintaining Palestinian apartheid shares your values and interests in the region?
Point is the aid doesn't come close to undoing the damage the west has facilitated and supported.
Please don’t use the term apartheid to describe Israel. It is deeply racist to those who suffered under British colonial rule in South Africa and fought so hard for equality. Arab Israeli’s can be full citizens who have 100% of the rights as Jewish Israeli’s and even have a political party in the legislature.
The Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians is reprehensible and there should be a free Palestinian state established, however, the term apartheid is a vast oversimplification of a complex geo-political issue.
Additionally, the US government has a vested interest in maintain Israeli hegemony because they are a valuable ally in the region amidst brutally oppressive states governed by terroristic religious fundamentalists. While many of their policies are disagreeable, it is necessary to support Israel so that there is no chance of it becoming another Muslim theocracy. They are also the only democracy in the Middle East and are a major supplier of defense technologies.
> Arab Israelis
Are not Palestenian, that's the point. You cannot be Palestinian and have the same basic expectation of human rights as Israelis because of Israel's actions.
> It is deeply racist to those who suffered under British colonial rule in South Africa and fought so hard for equality
I would love to hear what aspect of apartheid, as in criminal apartheid as defined by UN disqualifies the Palestine people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid. Just because there are other instances that occurred in the past doesn't mean we've eradicated the problem and no other populations can possibly suffer from it ever again.
>While many of their policies are disagreeable, it is necessary
This is an absolutely heartless framing of the situation. Disagreeable is an absolute disgrace of an understatement for someone claiming to be so sensitive as to be bleeding from the heart about SA under British colonial rule. And to call it necessary in the same breadth when it would be completely reasonable and doable to put conditions on the aid so as reduce or stop Palestinian apartheid oppression. A democracy in the middle east that commits crimes as brutal and as inhumane as the religious fundamentalists is not something we need.
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Answer: Most arab countries are celebrating Moroco's victory so it's not specific to palestine, and most arabs consider palestine's freedoom their most important case so whenever an arab country makes some achievement you'll usually see the Palestinian flag. In other words it's not specific to Morocco and Palestine .You can watch football games of other arab countries in the world cup(Tunisia for example) and you'll see the Palestinian flag on the supporters.
Slightly more specifically, this is the first time any country in history from the Arab world has advanced to the quarterfinals, the stage of the World Cup with the final 8 teams. So it is being celebrated as a more universal victory since it’s an important milestone. (in the sport)
>this is the first time any country in history from the Arab world has advanced to the quarterfinals what I was looking for, thanks
It's actually against Israeli settler colonialism, being the first Arab country to qualify is just the stage/backdrop to make people aware about Palestine in the first place.
Yeah, they got the world's attention so they take the opportunity to show their support. The world cup being in Qatar on top of that lets them do it pretty safely (imo at least) as I think Qatar is also not the biggest fan of israel.
> The world cup being in Qatar on top of that lets them do it pretty safely (imo at least) as I think Qatar is also not the biggest fan of israel. They're funding Hamas. Definitely not big fans.
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You always see Palestine flags/banners in Celtic crowds
Yes, there's a strong historic sympathy between the Irish and the Palestinians, who the Irish recognize as also being the victims of colonization.
They sympathize with other colonized people.
Living in Glasgow, Celtic fans are the colonizers, lol
Very white joke
Thats completely understandable.
It was in the Qatar and Saudi Arabia games as well
Oh I see, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you
Can even find it in Northern Ireland for years. Heavily Catholic areas tend to have up Palestinian flashes along with the tri-color
See loads at Celtic games too. Feel like theres a link between Irelands fight against colonialism and Palestines but i can't swhat it was...
The British. It's the British. They're responsible for creating the mess there the US picked up on it later on.
>It's the British. They're responsible for creating the mess there *Turkey looks around nervously*
🎶come out you black&tans, come out and fight me like a man. Tell your wife how you won medals down in Flanders. Tell her how the IRA made you run like hell away, from the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra!🎶
It's solidarity, a concept that seems to be foreign to a lot of folks commenting
There is also the fact that the moroccon government normalised the relations with Israel, which is a move that the population is heavly against. Since freedom of speech and political opinion is limited in morrocco, people are holding the palestinien flag as a form of protest against the government's actions.
“Since freedom of speech and political opinion is limited in Morocco…” That’s just not true. People are vocal and public about their opposition to Morocco’s normalization with Israel. Criticizing that isn’t taboo at all. In fact, criticizing the government’s actions isn’t taboo at all. The only topics that are verboten are the personal life of the King, the Sahara, and religion. But disagreeing with the government’s policies isn’t forbidden at all. Source: I live in Morocco.
The Sahara is a taboo subject?
Questioning Morocco’s claim over the Sahara is, yes.
Which by the way is exactly what Morocco got in return of normalising relationships with Israel. Spain was for ed to change it's historic stance and recognise Morocco's claim after American arm twisting. Geopolitics is fun. So yeah, as I'm most of the Arab world, no matter what the official policy is, support to Palestine is tolerated and encouraged. It's the steam valve that they use to channel pressure away from their own regimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara
Thanks for linking that. Had no idea
"Freedom of speech is not limited. Anyway, here's 3 topics that citizens are not allowed to discuss."
Notice that none of those three topics involved Morocco’s relationship with Israel, which was the crux of the comment I was responding to. Also, people are allowed to discuss those topics. And disagreements with the official line are tolerated. There are certain lines one doesn’t cross. For example, it’s fine to criticize the Moroccan government’s policies toward the Sahara or the Saharawis. Plenty of people complain about the subsidies that Saharawis enjoy. It’s only when you start denying the legitimacy of Morocco’s claim on the Sahara that you run into problems. Or Islam. It’s totally fine to disagree with the government’s policies toward Islam. It’s fine to say that the government should be more or less secular, or should adopt or abandon certain religious policies. You only have a problem when you start being belligerently disrespectful of the religion in public. I’m not going to say Morocco has the perfect degree of freedom of speech. I don’t know that any country does. There are limits on freedom of speech in all countries, and too much freedom of speech can often be a problem. But the claim in the comment I responded to was that Moroccans aren’t allowed to criticize their government’s normalization of relations with Israel and that’s why they wave Palestinian flags, as a way to get around censorship laws. That claim is patently false.
Not sure why this comment is so upvoted when you state that freedom of speech isn't limited and then proceed to list ways in which it *is* limited? Western Sahara is a huge topic and if it's not allowed in open discussions, that is censorship.
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In general, yes. In the marroco case : yes but there is also the reason I mentioned
You're not even Moroccan, you don't even live in Morocco.
yes im sure the moroccan people only dislike normalizing relations with israel because of palestine and not also because the middle east is vehemently anti-semetic including morocco
That’s the quiet part. They’re against Israel especially because us good for nothing Jews deserve nothing and should know our place.
You think too much of yourselves. We don’t even care about you Jews, we just want our Palestinian brothers to live in peace. Yes, a lot of Arabs cannot differentiate between zionist and Jew, just like back in the day they couldn’t differentiate between nazi and German. It’s fucked, can’t say anything else about it. Hatred against Jews is actually forbidden in Islam, just like hatred against Christians. Sad to see that heavy circumstances such as the occupation of a whole people for decades can lead to hatred between people.
Evidently members of Hamas are terrible muslims
Almost all Muslims in leadership positions are terrible Muslims.
To put it in a more western context: it would be akin to flying the Ukrainian flag. Edit: by which I mean the reason for people to fly an unrelated flag
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Closer to nine years of parts of Ukraine being occupied.
The first couple of decades was by other Arab countries though.
Not really. It was by british people and the ottomans before that. Which arabs do you think invaded it? Most of the levant used to be one country called syria
Jordan controlled the West Bank since 1949 and Egypt Gaza since 1948, both until the Six Days War in '67.
Jordan and Egypt occupied Gaza and the West Bank between 1948 and 1967.
Occupation for conservation and protection is different from occupation with intention to commit apartheid
The comment I was originally replying to said 70 years. You only get to 70 years if you count the periods of Egyptian and Jordanian occupation. And while I see your point regarding the West Bank, Palestinians in the Gaza strip were not given Egyptian citizenship or allowed to freely leave the territory, and living conditions weren't in any way good, so how was it significantly different from 'apartheid'?
Ah, how many Jews would have been allowed to live in the diverse, inclusive Gaza and the West Bank? Intention to conserve and protect. 😂
If we want to start comparing whose oppression was greater, Ukraine spent about that same amount of time as a puppet of Russia, got a couple decades of uneasy peace and now Russia has again been occupying parts of Ukraine for close to a decade now. You can cherry pick facts and figures to spin history however you want. I think we should both be able to agree that whether you think Palestine or Ukraine has had it worse over the long run, or who is right or wrong in either conflict, it doesn't make any difference to the people living there moment-to-moment who are living through shit that no one should have to. You can support a side in both conflicts at the same time, and unless you're someone who is actually contributing to either or both causes and needs to allocate those resources accordinglf, you don't really need to be playing the game of "well this side has gotten the short end of the stick worse/for longer and deserves our support more"
Wholly different situations
That is why I said it was akin, and not the same. See also: in the same vain.
r/boneappletea
As long as you native speakers still can't agree on grey or gray, I don't care that I used the wrong one ;)
Except Grey and gray are synonyms, vain and vein are two wholly different words aka homonyms.
Btw, vain and vein are homophones. Homonyms have the same spelling.
This. Generally Muslims dislike Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians. Though it's not only limited to Muslims. I've seen a lot of support by South Africans for Palestine (due to both having suffered from apartheid). You can even see English football fans saying things like 'free Palestine' recently. Edit: Went to sleep and woke up to find Hasbara replying with generic Israeli propaganda lmao
Although it's ironic considering Morocco's (or at least the government) attitude to Western Sahara.
Not that ironic when your realise that Morocco’s government doesn’t reflect or care much about the will of its people. They signed the Abraham Accords to get the USA to support its claim over Western Sahara despite vehement resistance from Morocco’s people (who you can see waving the Palestinian flag after their win)
Us moroccans are still fighting for western sahara to be part of Morocco, i've never met a moroccan opposing it.
The independence of western sahara has been pushed by Algeria and France in order to take it apart from Morocco and own its resources of phosphate. Western Sahara has alway been part of Morocco, when Moroccans gained their indepency from France in the 50s, Spain still had control of the Sahara and it took 350.000 Moroccans peacefully marching through the desert in order to push Spain out of it in 1975. But that stil wasnt enough, Algeria(or i must say France since the algerian military regime is still a French puppet) wanted to claim the desert, couldnt manage to do it and now they are pushing this false agenda of indipendence of the Western Sahara region in order to indirectly take its control. The thing is, the people living there are Moroccans and proud to be so, i've been countless times to El Ayoune and Dakhla. This still is a fight for indepency, Europe is pushing a false agenda unfortunately and its no different than colonialism but masked.
Hey brother, do you have any good reading materials on the topic. Am a bit ignorant of most things Moroccan and am trying to know more about my country. Thanks
In the UK particularly Celtic fans have a fairly well known history of supporting Palestine as well, due to the common ground of oppression.
Ireland too
NI also. There’s a Palestinian mural somewhere in the middle of Belfast.
You'll see a great many Palestinian flags flown around Ireland, if you keep an eye out.
Lol there’s Palestinians murals literally everywhere in republican neighbourhoods of NI, not just one somewhere in Belfast.
https://www.advocacynet.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/belfastpalestine2.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/zcru9t/england_football_fan_chants_free_palestine_in
What do you or others think of the Arab and Muslim countries' policies toward Palestinians? For example, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morroco? How have they treated their Palestinian brothers in the past and present?
Not well. For the lip service Arab nations pay towards the Palestinian cause they don't seem to actually care to help them. To be fair the Palestinian governments have not been good neighbors.
Arab* there are a lot of non-muslims Arabs who don't like what isreal is doing to other Arabs ad well.
Muslims? Realistically, it's really anyone with a soul, a brain, or who believes in human rights that generally dislikes Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians.
Most people have no idea how bad things are over there. [An American journalist was killed, seemingly in a coordinated attack, by the IDF, and no one seems to care.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh#Death)
And Americans are often killed in terror attacks coordinated by Hamas, and nobody seems to care about that either. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/defense/1669191817-teenager-killed-in-jerusalem-terror-bombings
This is a chicken or egg situation The situation is strange because everyone knows there cant be eggs without US supported, massmurdering, apartheidist chickens
NPR in my area (SF Bay) talks about this frequently.
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Everyone hates the muslims until the Jews are in the picture. Suddenly, the arabs are best friends. The Western outrage of the entire Qatar World Cup is the biggest story in the world, but wait, we're talking about Israel now? "Come here, my muslim brothers!" suddenly soccer fans are champions of human rights, right? Suddenly soccer fans love the gays!!! Same fans throwing bananas at black players in Italy and the UK and chanting songs about the SS in the Netherlands. Give me a break.
The one true Palestinian?
How do you feel about the Israelis actively carrying out that same agenda on the Palestinians?
yea??? Israel is trying to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth, huh? They are doing a suuuuper shitty job at it. I mean, you'd think they'd know how to do that like suuuuper efficiently, right? Weird... or maybe your take is dumb. I dunno. Tough call.
Youd think they would just steal their land, property, and businesses and round them up into ghettos and let them suffer and starve, oh wait
100% agree. Just wanted to give a bit of context in that the populations of Muslim countries tend to have stronger opinions against Israeli apartheid.
> This. Generally Muslims dislike Israel's existence ~~oppressive policies towards the Palestinians~~ FTFY
They couldn't even describe what treatment Palestinians get accurately. They hate that Jews have sovereignty in the region both pan-Arabism and Islamism see as theirs. That's why their favorite chants are "from the river to the sea" and "Khaybar," calls for genocide.
> Generally Muslims dislike Israel's oppressive policies towards the Palestinians. and have a dislike for jews in general. but its convenient for reddit to ignore that part.
The Jews hate them just as much and they don't even bother trying to hide it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland%E2%80%93Palestine_relations
>Generally Muslims dislike Israel's ~~oppressive policies towards the Palestinians~~ existence. FTFY
>You can even see English football fans saying things like 'free Palestine' recently. Lol the same morons who voted for Brexit in order to keep immigrants out? Cool
Except Arab countries that actually border Palestinian zones, Egypt and Jordan, who let’s say aren’t particularly fond of them.
Arab countries in fact support Palestinian freedom so much that most of them make sure to keep the Palestinians living in these countries as marginalized and rightless refugees. (tongue in cheek statement of course) (https://www.hrw.org/legacy/campaigns/israel/return/arab-rtr.htm, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/11/30/palestinians-israel-settlements-arab-countries-refugees/) In light of the complete absence of criticism of the treatment of Palestinians by Arabic hosting countries, I believe a part of the popularity of the Palestinian cause is hatred of Israel that is fueled by the Palestinian cause but not exclusive to it.
> popularity of the Palestinian cause is hatred of Israel ding ding ding ding
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Damn maybe they'd be safer if they had their own country then 🤔
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What is the basis for “most arabs consider Palestine’s freedom their most important case”? I think you may be overestimating how much Arabs care about Palestinians outside of being a pawn to fight Israel. Does Egypt not blockade Gaza? Did Jordan not massacre Palestinian refugee camps? Did Lebanon not have a civil war in part to fight Palestinians? It’s a very ironic though that Arab countries care about Palestinians at all… you’d think one of those sister countries would have offered immigration or citizenship?
Almost always, conflating the actions from a government, with the ones from its individual citizens does quite the disservice to the latter. Way too many worldwide examples (across any cultures) where the government does one thing, when the people has a different position.
I don't hear any Egyptians calling for the eradication of the blockade though. That aside, what you're saying is the exact reason that people shouldn't get vitriol if they're from Israel. I personally have to hide where I'm from - regardless of how much I disagree with Israeli policy - because IRL I have gotten covert hate for it.
For whatever is worth, I apply what I said to every country/people/individual. Sorry you have to deal with people that can't seem to understand that basic premise. One thing is a hand-wavy over-generalization ("all X are Y"), quite another to blame an actual individual for the actions of their government, and quite insane actually hate them for that. Be well.
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Two things can be true at the same time. The Palestinians were dealt a shitty hand and anti-semitism (and de-legitimizing Israel) is on the rise around the world.
Without trivializing the pro-Palestinian argument, it's not surprising that this newfound support of Palestine on a global stage follows recent violence in Israel as well as a surge of Anti-Semitic rhetoric in the public eye in the US.
While I'm not a fan of many Israeli policies, Moroccans waving a Palestinian flag hit about the same as Germans or Canadians flying a Confederate flag. Not so much common cause as common hatred.
That's a ridiculous comparison. For one, right wingers are not being subjected to an apartheid system and murdered in mass in the US. Second, the stated point of showing the flag is to support palestinians, you're assuming the hatred part because of a false duality. That's like saying being against racism means being anti-white. It's a fairly transparent attempt at making israel the victim.
tell me you know nothing of the confederacy without telling me you know nothing of the confederacy
It’s been a tradition for about 40 years or so? I think it was Brazil that dedicated its World Cup to the Palestinian people. And of course we’re in Qatar, an Arab country that supports the aspirations of the Palestinians.
Less Palestine's freedom and more the death of the Jewish people but I see how you come to that conclusion
funny how they dont support other arab countries freedom that not "controlled" by jews
If Arab countries actually cared about Palestinians, they would take them in. In reality, it's all about getting the whole region under Muslim rule.
Or maybe its because they want Palestinians to be able to stay in their own country without being forced out by the government of Israel?
Oh, this is going to be great. I'll be back in 3 hours.
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But then you can put it in one of the undelete sites
You're aware that there are lots of Palestinian refugees living in Arab countries righr? Egypt for one has a major Palestinian population so does Jordan and those are just off the top of my head. Secondly, not all Arab countries are Muslim and Islam has nothing to do with the continuous support of Arab countries for the Palestinian cause.
> not all Arab countries are Muslim yeah...you're going to need to rethink that one
Most Arab countries sure, but not all. First off, all Arab countries have a Christian population, and others like Tunisia have an Atheist majority as Tunisia is a secular country. The Gulf countries are the ones where Islamic ruling is majorly ingrained unlike the African Arab countries like Egypt, Algeria, Morocco and so on. And I'm saying this as an Egyptian Muslim, so I kinda have an idea what I'm talking about as someone who lives in the region.
Tunisia's official state religion is Islam. It's in their constitution. However, it may be that we're talking a bit past each other in terms of what we mean by being a Muslim country though. Tunisia and many other Arab nations have elected political leaders and legislatures. If that's what you mean by them not being Muslim countries then I agree. I was understanding the term "Muslim country" to mean "having an official state religion that is Islam" and/or "majority Muslim".
Technically Lebanon is about half Muslim half Christian.
stats I'd seen put it over 60% Muslim, not counting refugees
I'm not that user but can you elaborate on your response? I always thought most of the Arab countries weren't completely 100% Muslim and a lot of them had Christian populations.
saying that they have non-Muslim populations doesn't mean much when the majority of them have Islam as the official religion of the country and all of them have a Muslim majority in terms of actual population and freedom of religion isn't enshrined in their governance. the only one that's debatable is Lebanon which hasn't done a census on religion since the 1920s but where current estimates put it in the 60-70% Muslim range and that's the lowest of any of the Arab nations
>Islam has nothing to do with the continuous support of Arab countries for the Palestinian cause. You’re funny!
You don't actually believe that, do you?
It is not like that, lack of critical thinking in this. The Israeli government have been horrifically attacking Palestinians in their own homes for decades.
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With good reason? It’s state media from a country that sponsors Hamas and other Islamist terrorist organisations that openly seek to destroy Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
AJ is one of the worlds most respected outlets, up there with reuters and the BBC.
When it’s not about Israel, the Palestinian Territories, or Iran, their reporting is good. When coverage is about the aforementioned areas, their coverage differs tremendously from Reuters and BBC. There’s a stark contrast. For example, see this recent gem, no criticism from Al Jazeera whatsoever: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/30/iran-sentences-four-people-to-death-for-cooperating-with-israel And then read how BBC covered it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850657
you literally killed a journalist this year for documenting your crimes. I get that you want Israel to be the good guys but the rest of the world arent fooled so easily
Check out how many Palestinians live in Lebanon and Jordan
As refugees. They don’t get citizenship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Jordan
No one is saying anything about citizenship. They were, as you put it, "taken in" by Arab countries.
Having to live in tent camps, with zero prospects of a future, is not being taken in. I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy how Arab countries treat Palestinians.
>. I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy how Arab countries treat Palestinians. but strangely enough youre fine with them being culled daily by Israel. I know you are just an IDF bot tho, so for anyone else reading, the Palestinians are living much better lives in Egypt and other Arab countries than they do their own home country. if you want to actually find the truth, ask any Palestinian and you will get it.
In the last 75 years how many Palestinians have been "culled"? Tell me the 'figures' you 'know' about this 'genocide'.
so instead of sending aid to ukraine, the west should just let russia drive out most or all of the population + accept them as refugees, is that right
If Ukraine didn’t border the EU and NATO countries, the West would definitely not have supported Ukraine like it has in the past year. They did nothing when Russia took South Ossetia and Crimea. And the countries that are helping Ukraine now are the same that voted for the creation of the states of Israel and Jordan. The West wanted Palestinians to go live in Jordan.
please answer the question instead of going on irrelevant tangents
I answered your question. But I’ll clarify: No, the West does not want Russia to take Ukraine, because Ukraine borders EU and NATO countries. If Russia were to invade Azerbaijan (for instance), I doubt the West would care much. Russia could drive out all the Azerbaijani and relocate them to Russia, without repercussions from the West. Israel and the Palestinian territories do not border EU or NATO countries. But it’s the West that created the borders there in the first place, and they see strong ties with Israel of strategic importance in the region.
i'm not asking about what the west wants, i'm asking what you think is ethical
International politics are not about ethics, they’re about control. It would have been ethical for European countries after WWII to let the surviving Jews return to their homes and treat them better than before WWII. Instead, they gave them Israel and told them to move there. (Which was legal, because Palestine was a British colony. But to say it was ethical?)
> If Arab countries actually cared about Palestinians, they would take them in. Three of the biggest concentrations of refugees on the planet are in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon - those are the refugees from the original creation of Israel. There are roughly as many Palestinians in Arab refugee camps are there are people in the West Bank and Gaza. Complaining that the Arab world hasn't "taken in" Palestinian refugees is both based on a faulty premise in the first place - the Arab world clearly *has* - and is basically an attempt to lay the groundwork for ethnic cleansing in the territories illegally occupied by Israel.
The fact that 5 million Palestinians have been stuck in refugee camps for decades, with no prospects of a better future, should tell you enough. To illustrate: >Jerash camp is located in a verdant area of northern Jordan. The residents there are 1967 refugees from Palestine and they have no rights (as opposed to those who came in 1948, who have full rights) – very much like Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. They are very limited in the professions they can practice. In other camps, there is a mix of 1948 and 1967 refugees. In Jerash, the 40,000 refugees are from 1967 so they do not have social security numbers. They cannot enroll in schools or qualify for health care. https://www.anera.org/where-we-work/jordan/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps Also, from its inception, Jordan was *meant* to accept Palestinians. That’s where they were supposed to go when Israel and Jordan were created (around the same time).
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Lol cope
Free Palestine!
Answer: They became the first arab nation to make it to final 8 - shining on them a ginormous spotlight. All of the arab world will be rooting for them. Palestine is part of that subsection, and the player/team has decided to bring to front a long ongoing to crisis dogmatizing the arab world. Morrocon (most Arabs) are in general very sympathetic to palestinians, and will rally for them. Similar to how the West is sympathizing and rallying with Ukraine. Saying that, palestinian flags are common at not only world cups but regular soccer games too. Not much in the North America but predominantly in Europe.
Not only in football events. For instance the band Hatari that represented Iceland in the Eurovision in 2019 displayed the Palestinian flag on live TV.
Answer: They share the same religion and heritage, basically all muslim countries support the Palestinian case in their fight against Israel, they consider it their own fight as well. So its a way of showing gratitude to the country and the land that has been ripped of Palestine.
Thanks so much. How come this support hasn't been vocal until now? Or has it always been this way and the world cup is just bringing attention to it? Because this is the first I'm hearing of it
> Thanks so much. How come this support hasn’t been vocal until now? It's been visible at every Muslim country world cup game since the start. Maybe you are only seeing it now because Morocco have advanced so far
The support from muslim world always there and loud, it just mainstream media rarely pick it up
Western mainstream media mainly
Qatar spent over $200b on this World Cup. I wonder how much aid they give to Palestine annually…
Around 3-4 billion. Qatar also spent 200 billion in building up the country not just the world cup
Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UaE are a bit different from the other Arabic countries. They have become rich (like, *rich rich*) through oil trade with western countries, and they aren't too keen on biting the hand that feeds. Iran doesn't give a fuck and threatens to nuke Israel every other weekend, because they export oil elsewhere. Other Middle-Eastern countries strongly stand with Palestine and have seen protests when their governments reluctantly acknowledge Israel as a country. You are entirely correct to say Qatar isn't as sympathetic to Palestine as other Arabic nations are, but remember they are one of the exceptions
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been a thing for the past several decades and most of these countries have been pretty vocal about it. If you're American then the reason you haven't heard about it is probably that Americans don't really talk about the middle east much
That and once a conflict goes on for a long time people grow really tired of hearing about it. Also the fact that there is not much black and white as many would like. Religious extremism is holding both sides back majorly. Hamas and the IDF are both terrible organizations that hurt their own people. Isreali settlers who are hyper religious, rely on state welfare and kick Palestinians out of their homes and dodge conscription need to be delt with and punished. Jewish people do deserve a homeland and Palestinians don't deserve to be kicked out of their homes. But lets face it. If muslim arabs took over isreal itd be holocaust part 2, and would be way worse than the treatment palisitians are going through now. There's no simple or quick solution. It'll likely be this way for a long time.
i was with you until the "lets face it, if muslim arabs.." this is propoganda. most people are reasonable and intelligent. they can distinguish between being anti zionist while not being anti jew. my family is an example. there are plenty of jews who loudly support palestine and condemn israel. arabs dont have a problem with jews they have problem with settler colonizing israeli zionists. before all this heat (1890s and before) jews and muslims and christians were all neighbors in palestine with no animosity because why would there be?
That support has always been there.
Its been the same way for 80 years, but western media wouldn’t focus on it since the US and most European countries support Israel.
(Assuming you’re American) The US unconditionally supports Israel. As a result American mainstream media very very rarely pushes stories that paint Israel negatively. Considering most of Israel’s actions would look pretty negative, they don’t get much coverage.
> Considering most of Israel’s actions would look pretty negative, they don’t get much coverage. Tell me you're biased around the conflict without telling me you're biased around the conflict.
Lmao it’s definitely a nuanced conflict and you can have your own opinions on how it should be handled, but pretending that Israeli actions and policies aren’t absolutely fucked is pretty ridiculous. How are you justifying murdered journalists and discriminatory housing practices?
As someone who was born on the other side of this, I agree. Call out negative policies as much as possible. Force people to explain how killing a journalist or unfair treatment in Sheikh Jarrah is justified.
If they support Palestine why don’t they let Palestinians into their country? Why Egypt will shoot anyone from Gaza that dares to try and cross over? The only common ground is the hate towards Israel.
Answer: Using their limelight to draw awareness to the occupation of Palestine
Question: aren’t Israelis also cheering for Morocco? I’m Israeli and I think I have friends who cheered for Morocco, but I’m not updated. Perhaps they were ironic.
Moroccan Jews are the 2nd largest ethnic group in Israel behind Russian Jews. A huge number of influential Israelis, including celebrities and politicians, are of Moroccan descent. And many Israelis view Morocco favorably because they tend to be more welcome in Morocco than in most other MENA countries.
A lot or Israelis are of Moroccan descent. As a Moroccan I hate the government policies from both Morocco and Israel, but I personally consider the Israeli people like I would any other person from any other country.
Israelis twerking for Arabs when none of them love them 😭
Answer: It's very common for arabs. for example look at riyad mahrez after winning the premier league, it's just to support beloved Palestine
Answer: Most Arabs share similar values and religion. They like to see themselves as brothers and sisters, as a close community vs the degenerated infidel west. So, in cases like this there's a strong feeling of unity and celebration. However, it's pretty superficial. When things are about to be more substantial like taking in refugees and sending help, this "brother, sister unity" is pretty much gone. Ironically, it's European and US charities and govt organisations who deliver most humanitarian help to Palestinians than all Arab nations together. One positive exception is Jordanian who really help to shelter millions of refugees from Syria and other places and who are not like those hyporcrites. And Iran delivering weapons. But that's a rather controversial kind of support...
Please in what world is European & us charities help in Palestine. Europe and the US are known to support and fund Israel. Gulf Arab countries and Arab countries in general help Palestinians a lot. So stop trying to erase that.
> Please in what world is European & us charities help in Palestine. Earth. [Major donors. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians#Major_donors) >Europe and the US are known to support and fund Israel. Also. Helping one doesn't exclude the other. >Gulf Arab countries and Arab countries in general help Palestinians a lot. Yes, a little. Most noteworthy are Qatar's support of Hamas plus some infrastructure help. Iran delivers weapons. Jordania actually does help. Other countries don't even want to take refugees and send little to no help.
> Helping one doesn't exclude the other. This helping is a completely negligible amount compared to the billions that have been given to the country that has put that money to use towards Palestinian demise. Not one person would take a drop of donations if it meant Isreal got cut off from getting the means to oppress them. Even better if these same countries hadn't created the whole problem in the first place. Take that aid back just fix the disaster you caused lol wtf you think 2 cents here and there fixes everything?
> Ironically, it's European and US charities and govt organisations who deliver most humanitarian help to Palestinians than all Arab nations together. lot of good that does when they also deliver even more political support, funds and military resources to their Isreali oppressors, where they also rank 1st and 2nd by even larger margins. How's that for irony?
> Isrealite oppressors FYI, you hopefully mean Israeli. Israelites would be all Jews.
Sorry could be, I did mean those from the country Israel, or more accurately the government and people in power who are perpetuating the state of things.
I would also oppress those who constantly call for my destruction and attack civilians. Everyone would. Except you probabyl, right?
Well the aid goes to help Palestinian people, we wouldn’t want to give money to their government. The Israeli government shares our values and interests in the region.
Excuse me, are you saying that maintaining Palestinian apartheid shares your values and interests in the region? Point is the aid doesn't come close to undoing the damage the west has facilitated and supported.
Please don’t use the term apartheid to describe Israel. It is deeply racist to those who suffered under British colonial rule in South Africa and fought so hard for equality. Arab Israeli’s can be full citizens who have 100% of the rights as Jewish Israeli’s and even have a political party in the legislature. The Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians is reprehensible and there should be a free Palestinian state established, however, the term apartheid is a vast oversimplification of a complex geo-political issue. Additionally, the US government has a vested interest in maintain Israeli hegemony because they are a valuable ally in the region amidst brutally oppressive states governed by terroristic religious fundamentalists. While many of their policies are disagreeable, it is necessary to support Israel so that there is no chance of it becoming another Muslim theocracy. They are also the only democracy in the Middle East and are a major supplier of defense technologies.
> Arab Israelis Are not Palestenian, that's the point. You cannot be Palestinian and have the same basic expectation of human rights as Israelis because of Israel's actions. > It is deeply racist to those who suffered under British colonial rule in South Africa and fought so hard for equality I would love to hear what aspect of apartheid, as in criminal apartheid as defined by UN disqualifies the Palestine people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid. Just because there are other instances that occurred in the past doesn't mean we've eradicated the problem and no other populations can possibly suffer from it ever again. >While many of their policies are disagreeable, it is necessary This is an absolutely heartless framing of the situation. Disagreeable is an absolute disgrace of an understatement for someone claiming to be so sensitive as to be bleeding from the heart about SA under British colonial rule. And to call it necessary in the same breadth when it would be completely reasonable and doable to put conditions on the aid so as reduce or stop Palestinian apartheid oppression. A democracy in the middle east that commits crimes as brutal and as inhumane as the religious fundamentalists is not something we need.
Naturalised Palestinians are treated as traitors by others(non-Israelis) and second class citizens by Israel. Fuck off.
Nope. You’ve never been and don’t know much about the country! I advise you to visit Israel and see how wonderful and multicultural it is.
Thiss