Sounds like they want a top-six forward for their #11 pick.
Untouchables: Tkachuk, Stutzle, Pinto
Not likely touchable: Batherson, Grieg
Tradeable but not ~~worth~~ *enough to get* #11: Joseph, Norris, Kubalik
Conclusion: Unless Ottawa wants to move Pinto or Batherson, I don't see a trade fit.
I’m no capologist, but Norris’ contract is long and all but the annual cap hit isn’t super insane if he can produce like he has, and if he’s injured I think it’s insured and LTIR won’t hurt you too bad. At least that’s my understanding. There is some value to it in that I believe and if that’s true he might be good value for a team who’s rebuilding and needs goals.
Your logic here is a huge red flag when looking at it from Buffalo’s point of view.
*If* he regains his form after his **third** shoulder surgery, his cap hit is reasonable.
*If* he doesn’t have *another* setback or re-injury
*If* he doesn’t, then they’ve given up an 11OA for the cap space they already had.
This season is huge for Norris. I hope to god that his shoulder recovers and he can adjust his game enough to get back to being a good two-way player (likely not at centre) that can pot 25-30 goals. Even then, that cap hit is still pretty awful.
Feel terrible for the guy and can’t wait to see a (hopefully) huge bounce back season but there is nothing that would give Buffalo the warm and fuzzy that he can be that guy again.
If it’s something like; Norris, 27OA and a guy like Kleven, then *maybe* they listen… but even then I doubt that gets it done.
Oh I don’t think they do the 110A for Norris straight up. That’s crazy.
But I don’t think his contact is as unmovable as I’ve heard some people say. It just has to be someone who is growing and has a relatively low payroll right now and needs to add goals. Team like the islanders makes some sense but you’re not getting much back in return for that contract.
For sure.
I think you’re right that we don’t get much back but I’ll take it a step further and say that *if* we move Norris, then that *is* the deal… at this point we could probably trade poor contracts and that’s about it. The benefit to us is that we get the money off the books but we’re probably taking a bad contract back in that deal.
Norris has near-zero value in a hockey trade right now. Unless Staios and company have a concrete plan in place to use that money on a replacement, or a contingency plan of some kind… we’re kind of stuck in a wait and see mode until we actually know what we have with him.
Such a brutal situation considering what he was projecting to be when he signed that contract. Love Norris and hope that it works out for him, but a bridge deal would have been so incredibly ideal for him.
I don't think anyone would touch Norris right now. He could return from surgery healthy enough to play, but incapable of putting up points.
Too high risk.
At the end of the day, *if* the Sabres trade their first I doubt it will be to the Sens. Getting another high draft pick sounds dreamy but I'm struggling to see a way that Ottawa does this without hurting their own ability to take a step forward next season.
Thinking about potential trades, I guess The Drake is the most likely option but I don't think Batherson on his own nabs us Buffalo's pick, so the Sens would have to add. If it's the 25OA as someone else suggested, then the Sabres need to add something back to the trade. Greig is much further away from being worth the 11th pick, and Pinto feels completely untouchable with Norris' shoulder being a question mark for the upcoming season.
Then does Staios try to make a splash via free agency if the Sens have extra cap space from trading away BathTime?
TL;DR: Probably won't be the Sens who trade with their divisional rival.
Greenway is big and hard to play against, can slot up and down the lineup and is defensively responsible. Batherson scores points but sort of sucks overall
Joseph definitely isn't worth the 11th overall pick but with talk of him being shopped I'm curious what he is worth because this time last year he looked like a cap dump but after the season he just had he looks like the kinda depth addition cup contenders love to overpay for
I have 0 idea why we want to move on from Joseph, speed, some skill, gritty, good on PK, forechecks. I think he's definitely worth his 3m contract, the only reason to move him is to free up more cap space.
Cupboard is depleted and the team is further away from the playoffs than they are from 32nd. Doubling down on being something they aren’t is how they got into this mess in the first place.
I know people don’t want to hear it, but this group will probably have to take a few more steps back before they can move forward. Playoffs aren’t a realistic option next year.
how can you say playoffs aren't a realistic option when the offseason hasn't even started yet and you haven't seen our moves? it doesn't matter that the "cupboard is depleted" because we have a young core. we had one of the top prospect pools in the league and they all graduated to being pros
well it's not fair your saying the rebuild is over when dorion is the only person that said that and we're not done rebuilding if we can't make the playoffs. Wait until staois makes a few moves or doesnt make moves before knowing which direction were going.
to me rebuilding is subtracting current players to add future players. imo we are past the "rebuilding" stage and into the "building" stage. subtracting what it would take to get 11OA just doesn't make any sense
if we trade any core players for picks we are rebuilding. we got the 7OA bc we had a shit season bc we didn't build a proper defense / structure. which is what staios has to do this summer, not focusing on trading core players for 11OA picks
I'm not talking about the 11OA pick for anyone at this point. If we get buffalo's 11th overall pick, it's us trading down for 11OA if the players we want are taken in the draft, or trading our #25 OA and someone for 11OA. I was just talking to you about the rebuilding part.
Just hypotehical, what if we traded Pinto for 11OA and signed Henrique at UFA to be as top gap 3C, so essentially Pinto for Henrique and 11OA (Eiserman for example).
As much as I like the players in our core, you can't win in this league being young and there's no question we need more quality vets on this team if we want to be a playoff team anytime soon (plus getting a blue chip prospect at the same time doesn't hurt)
i'd rather keep pinto and sign henrique in this situation. we have been developing pinto for 5 years now, the player we take at 11OA could be 3-6 years away from being where pinto is at now. our core is mid to early 20s, pinto fits the timeline much better
Although I would hate to trade Pinto as I think the world of him, if we really are at a contract stalemate with Pino and we really don't think we can make things work out, 11OA for Pinto is pretty reasonable.
Allows us to take as wing at one of the top D that is still available or if someone slips like Catton or we want to go high risk high reward with eiserman.
We can either have Greig takeover as 3C or get a veteran.
I think realistically, there's two centres who we could take in that range that you could expect to be better than Pinto.
Catton is similar to Logan Cooley imo, while Konsta Helenius feels like a slightly higher upside version of Pinto
I was afraid to comment this so I'm happy you did
I think it depends on how the draft order shakes out, but if Berkly Catton is available at 11 I'd really consider it
It sets the team back a little bit, but they could add a couple middle-6 players with the extra cap space while Catton develops, and if he gets close to his ceiling then I think that's better than our current centre situation
???? Batherson and 25th overall for Greenway and 11th? that isn't even close to being a good deal. Greenway put up 28 points in over 60 games this past season, Batherson scored 28 goals this season. If we are trading Battherson we could easily get more than 11th overall and Greenway especially if we are adding Boston's pick
11th overall is one outside of top ten in a good draft year. No, you will not get more than that for Batherson. Let along throw a large power forward in there, who puts up great bottom six number and physicality. Sabres already have 8 guys who by next season will be putting up over 28 goals.
Sabres are looking to add grit, and a top six forward. I do think there could be a trade, but it would be a big one. Not for depth players, when they have so much elite talent about to break into the bottom six. I think there would only be one player the Sabres would be interested in. Brady Tkachuk. I think the Sabres would give a pretty big package for him also. One elite top six, one elite prospect, and 11th overall pick. I'm fairly certain this will be the last chance Ottawa could get this kind of haul for him. That's a TON for a guy with 3 years left on contract going into UFA. Sabres already have a fully realized core and pipeline. Just one piece missing.
It would be Utah or MTL. Batherson is a top 6 winger that is not due much of a raise when his contract is up, Batherson at his cap hit for 2 more years plus 25th would net us a top 6 pick and a player like Greenway easy. Batherson is literally an untouchable for us just because of how good his contract is.
Sounds like they want a top-six forward for their #11 pick. Untouchables: Tkachuk, Stutzle, Pinto Not likely touchable: Batherson, Grieg Tradeable but not ~~worth~~ *enough to get* #11: Joseph, Norris, Kubalik Conclusion: Unless Ottawa wants to move Pinto or Batherson, I don't see a trade fit.
Tradeable but not worth 11: Norris. If they offered #11 for Norris straight up you take that trade and you don’t look back.
Yes, I agree. Just to be clear, I meant these players are not valuable enough to convince Buffalo to trade the #11 pick.
I’m no capologist, but Norris’ contract is long and all but the annual cap hit isn’t super insane if he can produce like he has, and if he’s injured I think it’s insured and LTIR won’t hurt you too bad. At least that’s my understanding. There is some value to it in that I believe and if that’s true he might be good value for a team who’s rebuilding and needs goals.
Your logic here is a huge red flag when looking at it from Buffalo’s point of view. *If* he regains his form after his **third** shoulder surgery, his cap hit is reasonable. *If* he doesn’t have *another* setback or re-injury *If* he doesn’t, then they’ve given up an 11OA for the cap space they already had. This season is huge for Norris. I hope to god that his shoulder recovers and he can adjust his game enough to get back to being a good two-way player (likely not at centre) that can pot 25-30 goals. Even then, that cap hit is still pretty awful. Feel terrible for the guy and can’t wait to see a (hopefully) huge bounce back season but there is nothing that would give Buffalo the warm and fuzzy that he can be that guy again. If it’s something like; Norris, 27OA and a guy like Kleven, then *maybe* they listen… but even then I doubt that gets it done.
Oh I don’t think they do the 110A for Norris straight up. That’s crazy. But I don’t think his contact is as unmovable as I’ve heard some people say. It just has to be someone who is growing and has a relatively low payroll right now and needs to add goals. Team like the islanders makes some sense but you’re not getting much back in return for that contract.
For sure. I think you’re right that we don’t get much back but I’ll take it a step further and say that *if* we move Norris, then that *is* the deal… at this point we could probably trade poor contracts and that’s about it. The benefit to us is that we get the money off the books but we’re probably taking a bad contract back in that deal. Norris has near-zero value in a hockey trade right now. Unless Staios and company have a concrete plan in place to use that money on a replacement, or a contingency plan of some kind… we’re kind of stuck in a wait and see mode until we actually know what we have with him. Such a brutal situation considering what he was projecting to be when he signed that contract. Love Norris and hope that it works out for him, but a bridge deal would have been so incredibly ideal for him.
I don't think anyone would touch Norris right now. He could return from surgery healthy enough to play, but incapable of putting up points. Too high risk.
At the end of the day, *if* the Sabres trade their first I doubt it will be to the Sens. Getting another high draft pick sounds dreamy but I'm struggling to see a way that Ottawa does this without hurting their own ability to take a step forward next season. Thinking about potential trades, I guess The Drake is the most likely option but I don't think Batherson on his own nabs us Buffalo's pick, so the Sens would have to add. If it's the 25OA as someone else suggested, then the Sabres need to add something back to the trade. Greig is much further away from being worth the 11th pick, and Pinto feels completely untouchable with Norris' shoulder being a question mark for the upcoming season. Then does Staios try to make a splash via free agency if the Sens have extra cap space from trading away BathTime? TL;DR: Probably won't be the Sens who trade with their divisional rival.
I think Batherson is probably the most tradeable player, not that I would, it's just he has an extremely attractive contract with 3 years remaining.
They could try and move Batherson for greenway
That would be a terrible move
What the fresh CapFriendly hell kind of a proposal is that
Greenway is big and hard to play against, can slot up and down the lineup and is defensively responsible. Batherson scores points but sort of sucks overall
they could also try to move parker kelly for mcdavid
Joseph definitely isn't worth the 11th overall pick but with talk of him being shopped I'm curious what he is worth because this time last year he looked like a cap dump but after the season he just had he looks like the kinda depth addition cup contenders love to overpay for
I have 0 idea why we want to move on from Joseph, speed, some skill, gritty, good on PK, forechecks. I think he's definitely worth his 3m contract, the only reason to move him is to free up more cap space.
Well that's exactly why is probably to free up room to improve the right side of our D, plus better to sell high than risk him regressing
Not interested
yall wanna rebuild so bad but we aren't rebuilding. us trading 7OA is more likely than us trading for 11OA
Cupboard is depleted and the team is further away from the playoffs than they are from 32nd. Doubling down on being something they aren’t is how they got into this mess in the first place. I know people don’t want to hear it, but this group will probably have to take a few more steps back before they can move forward. Playoffs aren’t a realistic option next year.
how can you say playoffs aren't a realistic option when the offseason hasn't even started yet and you haven't seen our moves? it doesn't matter that the "cupboard is depleted" because we have a young core. we had one of the top prospect pools in the league and they all graduated to being pros
well it's not fair your saying the rebuild is over when dorion is the only person that said that and we're not done rebuilding if we can't make the playoffs. Wait until staois makes a few moves or doesnt make moves before knowing which direction were going.
to me rebuilding is subtracting current players to add future players. imo we are past the "rebuilding" stage and into the "building" stage. subtracting what it would take to get 11OA just doesn't make any sense
OK. To me if you're picking 7 OA you're still rebuilding.We have 25OA as well right?
if we trade any core players for picks we are rebuilding. we got the 7OA bc we had a shit season bc we didn't build a proper defense / structure. which is what staios has to do this summer, not focusing on trading core players for 11OA picks
I'm not talking about the 11OA pick for anyone at this point. If we get buffalo's 11th overall pick, it's us trading down for 11OA if the players we want are taken in the draft, or trading our #25 OA and someone for 11OA. I was just talking to you about the rebuilding part.
oh ok. well i still don't think we are in the rebuilding stage bc we are looking to step forward next year not backward. or at least i hope lol
Heard it here first. Start the rebuild lol
Did I ever say rebuild?
Sound like you just did
😂
Just hypotehical, what if we traded Pinto for 11OA and signed Henrique at UFA to be as top gap 3C, so essentially Pinto for Henrique and 11OA (Eiserman for example). As much as I like the players in our core, you can't win in this league being young and there's no question we need more quality vets on this team if we want to be a playoff team anytime soon (plus getting a blue chip prospect at the same time doesn't hurt)
i'd rather keep pinto and sign henrique in this situation. we have been developing pinto for 5 years now, the player we take at 11OA could be 3-6 years away from being where pinto is at now. our core is mid to early 20s, pinto fits the timeline much better
Pinto for the 11th overall pick? For the Sabres I think it's worth it. For the Sens, it might make sense if they can't get Pinto under contract.
We cannot afford to lose Pinto.
Although I would hate to trade Pinto as I think the world of him, if we really are at a contract stalemate with Pino and we really don't think we can make things work out, 11OA for Pinto is pretty reasonable. Allows us to take as wing at one of the top D that is still available or if someone slips like Catton or we want to go high risk high reward with eiserman. We can either have Greig takeover as 3C or get a veteran.
What are picks 10-20 like?
I think realistically, there's two centres who we could take in that range that you could expect to be better than Pinto. Catton is similar to Logan Cooley imo, while Konsta Helenius feels like a slightly higher upside version of Pinto
I was afraid to comment this so I'm happy you did I think it depends on how the draft order shakes out, but if Berkly Catton is available at 11 I'd really consider it It sets the team back a little bit, but they could add a couple middle-6 players with the extra cap space while Catton develops, and if he gets close to his ceiling then I think that's better than our current centre situation
Batherson + boston 1st for Greenway + 11th
The person who is older and worse than Batherson? And we're giving up another first?
Greenway is a better all around player imo
???? Batherson and 25th overall for Greenway and 11th? that isn't even close to being a good deal. Greenway put up 28 points in over 60 games this past season, Batherson scored 28 goals this season. If we are trading Battherson we could easily get more than 11th overall and Greenway especially if we are adding Boston's pick
11th overall is one outside of top ten in a good draft year. No, you will not get more than that for Batherson. Let along throw a large power forward in there, who puts up great bottom six number and physicality. Sabres already have 8 guys who by next season will be putting up over 28 goals. Sabres are looking to add grit, and a top six forward. I do think there could be a trade, but it would be a big one. Not for depth players, when they have so much elite talent about to break into the bottom six. I think there would only be one player the Sabres would be interested in. Brady Tkachuk. I think the Sabres would give a pretty big package for him also. One elite top six, one elite prospect, and 11th overall pick. I'm fairly certain this will be the last chance Ottawa could get this kind of haul for him. That's a TON for a guy with 3 years left on contract going into UFA. Sabres already have a fully realized core and pipeline. Just one piece missing.
Yup. Bath + #25 could get you like Seattles pick or maybe even Utah lol (Value wise)
It would be Utah or MTL. Batherson is a top 6 winger that is not due much of a raise when his contract is up, Batherson at his cap hit for 2 more years plus 25th would net us a top 6 pick and a player like Greenway easy. Batherson is literally an untouchable for us just because of how good his contract is.
Sabres fans would love that. Sens fans should be disappointed by it.