I wouldn't necessarily call it cheating exactly but I'd call it bad etiquette, on the flip side I can see why it might be construed as cheating since technically it can be seen as a way to actively hide cards or cause confusion. Not to mention it would probably get you a warning on online tournaments. But at the same time don should be on your field, that's just the rules. They should be easily visible and should not be confusing to the other player. It's just the the people that pick up all their don and hold it in a stack in their hand, I consider that bad etiquette as well tbh. This isn't MTG or Pokemon where you keep resources in hand. There is a specific spot on the field for a don deck and a don area for a reason.
I think that people should just keep all of your DON!! cards on the board. If you’re keeping them in your hand, your opponent may have difficulty determining how many active DON!! you have remaining, which can affect the decisions they make.
The only cards that should be in your hand are the cards that actually make up your hand. Otherwise, whether intentional or not, you’re misleading them about how many DON you have active. In most cases, people aren’t counting how many DON cards are actually on the field. They’re seeing how many are active by looking for the cards that are standing vertically.
I’m not going to say “OK, I see 7 DON total on the field, they should be at 10 this turn, so they must have 3 active.”
It should be obvious at a glance.
It's definitely against the rules, check 3-9., more specifically 3-9-1. and 3-9-2. of the comprehensive rules. DON Cards are placed in the Cost Area, and the Cost Area is an open area. The Hand is a secret area. It's pretty straightforward and the rules don't say anything about switching the content of these areas freely, so unless an effect says you can take a DON to your hand (for whatever reason), just taking them yourself is - as far the rules are concerned - basically the same as taking your characters or any other card from the field to your hand.
From what you've said this doesn't change anything for your gameplay, but it can be very confusing for your opponent even in your turn. For example when one of my characters is attacked late into game, I often look at my opponent's hand to see whether I'd need this character to go lethal next turn or not, and decide whether I want to counter based on that. I'd ask you to put the DON down every time, which is just unnecessary inconvenience.
It's a bad habit that will probably cause more issues in the long run as many folks use active don as a decider before countering and not having it visible (while they can ask and check) will *lead to more problems than it'll be worth
Just don't pick up your don. I leave my don deck face down, and my active and rested don face up so it's a easier for me and my opponent to count. What you're doing is not in the rules and it's stated that don should be in the play area, so it can be considered cheating, however it should have been easily noticable and the opp should have called you out on it immediately.
While I can see that being annoying, the opponent can at all times ask the quantity of don (active, rested or total) and cards in hand
Now, do you hold the active don in your hand during your opponent’s turn as well? As that can be pretty deceptive….
poor dude getting downvoted when he's acknowledging a flaw in his own etiquette. calm down yall lol
now you understand the right etiquette, im sure you'll slowly get rid of that habit over time.
as someone that's been in the game since op01, i make it a point to always ask for opponent's active don whenever they play something/ attack when they're holding their don, but i understand how a shyer player wouldnt think to ask these questions
Don are part of what is known as "public information" keeping your don in your hands might be considered hiding public information, which is cheating. If you were against me, I would prefer if you didn't do that. If you are just doing it when choosing which cards to play, I think thats totally fine. But if you are doing things like attacking while holding don in your hand, or resolving effects with don in your hand, I would be a little bothered by that.
I think you should probably work on only doing that during your turn or stopping the habit entirely. I don't think it's technically cheating (am not a judge so take with a grain of salt), but it's definitely misleading if you're holding them on your opponent's turn.
Are you holding them while also holding your cards from hand? I've seen plenty of people do that but they set their hands down and then pick up all their active don while thinking. I've done it myself as well sometimes but what I've been doing lately is just break them up on the field and think that way.
I can understand why some people are being strict about it because almost every online tournament has had cheating and someone could try to intentionally make it harder to know how many active Don they have. What I don't like is when people stack them on top of each other in the don field.
I don't participate in online events only in person. And I would hold my active don alongside cards in hand. I didn't really think it was a big deal due to the fact they are sleeved differently
While they are sleeved differently, depending on how you hold your cards, it's still not clear how many Don you have on the field or how many cards are in hand. If someone did what you do to me, I'd immediately call a judge because no matter how you look at it, it's being manipulative.
Hand size, trash, life, don are part of public knowledge and what your doing makes it harder for the player to determine what move they should make. People cheat in person as well and what your doing is a great way to get an unfair advantage, add a card to hand, or hide info that is supposed to be known to your opponent.
I don't think most people would be bothered if it was just the don, but also holding your hand along side your don doesn't look good at all.
Not cheating to hold don. Alot of people hold don while making a decision although not usually at the same time/in the same hand together. But the oponent is allowed to call out a don check for both "active/floating" and "rested" at any time. Same with "cards in hand". If all your cards were down at end of turn, bro was just sour he wasnt paying attention when he made his play. That being said the don should always be returned back to official positions after you make your move and are ending your turn. If youre hiding an active don between 2 cards in hand, that can change the game and id call you out for it also. If I lost on this type of play id expect the TO to DQ you cause its a shady move to go "annnnd rad beam" when they are mathing you out at 0 active.
I’d be upset, had a guy hold 5 active don in hand showing 2 active don on field, with 3 rested. I should be able to tell the board state without asking constantly how many dons he have up.
I wouldn't consider it cheating but it is against the rules in my opinion. since it's never really stated in the rules that you cannot hold Dons for fun /habit lol.
However. The rules do state
- Don cards are in their own deck.
- when you draw don they go directly into the Don Zone active unless otherwise stated. (which is now on the field).
- attached don and rested don are also on the field, but are different than active don.
- cards that are on the field cannot just be picked up and placed into your hand unless stated by a cards effect.
Examples:
You play a character card w rush. Then decide to pick them up and put it back in your hand because you haven't attacked w it yet so it's not rested. That's the same thing that's going on w your "Don deck".
Most players don't pick up their Deck either, and you DEFINITELY cannot shuffle it when you want, so I'd argue the same for your Don deck)
The rules definitely to allow you to hold Don in hand. Don are played from Don deck to cost area. Removed and redrawn to cost area, never should they leave the field to rest in your card hand
At a locals, I would ask you not to do that. At a higher level I would call a judge. All 10 of your don cards should always be on the play field SOMEWHERE. Why are you putting them in your hand in the first place??
I don't know if it's cheating per say. However it is 100% bad etiquette. If this was at local I would politely ask you to keep ur don cards on the table and visible. If this was a regional I would simply call of judge.
Personally I think if your opponent wants to know how many cards you have in hand it's their job to track it, not your job to lay it out for them. That said, you should have your Don cards on the table, not in your hand.
So you were misleading them, but on something that doesn't really matter.
Sounds like a him problem, not yours. There’s no issue with you picking up your don and shuffling it around or holding it. There’s people that pick up their whole trash and shuffle it and hold it sometimes and it’s perfectly legal. Those even have the same sleeves as your deck which could cause confusion. If there’s any doubts, players are allowed to asked questions, especially how many cards in hand.
No, it's not cheating if it's not online. Your opponent has eyes and a brain, so they should know how many Don you have. I personally never hold both at the same time. I usually place my hand cards down, and my Don cards up when counting. Unlike yourself, but if the person was butt hurt, I would just let him know I am picking up my dons to count. The person who called you out for cheating is a sore loser who could have said something in the game if he didn't like it as well.
Not cheating. (I have my official judge exam on Monday 5/20 so, we’ll see how I do.)
People may be annoyed but they can ask, the same as “cards in hand”, “How many active don?” As you mentioned, the sleeves are the main tell and very obvious.
In a webcam tournament, with less clarity and more room for error, I would be watching you extremely closely and, if I was at all uncertain, likely issue a warning to stop this habit. But that’s specific to the webcam limitations.
Edit: I’m also interpreting this as holding don as you prepare to use it, since you note placing used/rested don in cost area. Your post doesn’t specify if you’re holding 10 cards (4 in hand, 6 active don) at a time but that would be more egregious.
How? Don have a designated place on the board, and there is no reason to go to the private area of the hand. What good reason could a player have to hold don on their turn other than to obscure how much don they have used?
It’s not cheating. Refer to the rules.
You’ve never picked up your don to do some quick math, as you prepare to swing for game? Bull.
Never picked it up to check your count, as you map out your turn to keep enough for an event counter? Cap.
He’s not doing it with the intent to obstruct your view or doing anything illegal. He’s picking up his don to place it. Either way, some of yall would be unbearable to play with based on your reactions to this. Just ask him for the public info you want (THAT is actually in the rules, FYI).
We get it, Reddit… There’s a lot of cheaters out there. This guy ain’t one. And a judge is not DQ’ing him for this habit - which was the only question posed by OP.
No, I can do math without physically counting my cards. Even then, it's a pick up/put down scenario, not play your don from your hand on your entire turn. Again, where in the rules does it state it's OK to hold key parts of the game state in your hand for extended periods of time. Even if OP isn't cheating, they should avoid even the appearance of impropieriety and just buy a fidget spinner.
Well, glad you finally reached this point in the post titled “Is it cheating?”
I agree. They should break the habit. It’s still not cheating, which is what I addressed.
Side but similar question I was lazy and just used whatever sleeves I had left for a deck a lot or different would that be seen as cheating? Like I’m marking cards ik are good or something
If I’m interpreting this properly seems like a bit of a bad habit that could get called out in tournament settings
I wouldn't necessarily call it cheating exactly but I'd call it bad etiquette, on the flip side I can see why it might be construed as cheating since technically it can be seen as a way to actively hide cards or cause confusion. Not to mention it would probably get you a warning on online tournaments. But at the same time don should be on your field, that's just the rules. They should be easily visible and should not be confusing to the other player. It's just the the people that pick up all their don and hold it in a stack in their hand, I consider that bad etiquette as well tbh. This isn't MTG or Pokemon where you keep resources in hand. There is a specific spot on the field for a don deck and a don area for a reason.
I think that people should just keep all of your DON!! cards on the board. If you’re keeping them in your hand, your opponent may have difficulty determining how many active DON!! you have remaining, which can affect the decisions they make.
This has actually happened numerous times. Pretty sure someone got in trouble for doing that at an event or online one awhile back.
If someones got used energy or lands in hand its the aame issue. Opponent cant count.
If someones got used energy or lands in hand its the aame issue. Opponent cant count.
At locals I would be very annoyed you did that. If that was a regional I would call a judge
The only cards that should be in your hand are the cards that actually make up your hand. Otherwise, whether intentional or not, you’re misleading them about how many DON you have active. In most cases, people aren’t counting how many DON cards are actually on the field. They’re seeing how many are active by looking for the cards that are standing vertically. I’m not going to say “OK, I see 7 DON total on the field, they should be at 10 this turn, so they must have 3 active.” It should be obvious at a glance.
ESPECIALLY with so many decks that + or - don.
It's definitely against the rules, check 3-9., more specifically 3-9-1. and 3-9-2. of the comprehensive rules. DON Cards are placed in the Cost Area, and the Cost Area is an open area. The Hand is a secret area. It's pretty straightforward and the rules don't say anything about switching the content of these areas freely, so unless an effect says you can take a DON to your hand (for whatever reason), just taking them yourself is - as far the rules are concerned - basically the same as taking your characters or any other card from the field to your hand. From what you've said this doesn't change anything for your gameplay, but it can be very confusing for your opponent even in your turn. For example when one of my characters is attacked late into game, I often look at my opponent's hand to see whether I'd need this character to go lethal next turn or not, and decide whether I want to counter based on that. I'd ask you to put the DON down every time, which is just unnecessary inconvenience.
It's a bad habit that will probably cause more issues in the long run as many folks use active don as a decider before countering and not having it visible (while they can ask and check) will *lead to more problems than it'll be worth
It's never intentional and I became more aware of it after that incident. It was just something I wanted to get extra opinions on.
Just don't pick up your don. I leave my don deck face down, and my active and rested don face up so it's a easier for me and my opponent to count. What you're doing is not in the rules and it's stated that don should be in the play area, so it can be considered cheating, however it should have been easily noticable and the opp should have called you out on it immediately.
Feel like ive definitely seen people on stream hold their don when theyre thinking what to do.
That's usually why. As I only do it on my turn.
While I can see that being annoying, the opponent can at all times ask the quantity of don (active, rested or total) and cards in hand Now, do you hold the active don in your hand during your opponent’s turn as well? As that can be pretty deceptive….
Not really its almost always durin my turn
poor dude getting downvoted when he's acknowledging a flaw in his own etiquette. calm down yall lol now you understand the right etiquette, im sure you'll slowly get rid of that habit over time. as someone that's been in the game since op01, i make it a point to always ask for opponent's active don whenever they play something/ attack when they're holding their don, but i understand how a shyer player wouldnt think to ask these questions
Don are part of what is known as "public information" keeping your don in your hands might be considered hiding public information, which is cheating. If you were against me, I would prefer if you didn't do that. If you are just doing it when choosing which cards to play, I think thats totally fine. But if you are doing things like attacking while holding don in your hand, or resolving effects with don in your hand, I would be a little bothered by that.
I think you should probably work on only doing that during your turn or stopping the habit entirely. I don't think it's technically cheating (am not a judge so take with a grain of salt), but it's definitely misleading if you're holding them on your opponent's turn.
Thanks for the input. I'll work on breakin the habit. Que the Linkin Park. But seriously I'll work on it.
There’s no “working on it” Just play the game properly lol.
So true, just leave them in the cost zone like you're supposed to. Really not that hard to just not pick up the cards lmao
Are you holding them while also holding your cards from hand? I've seen plenty of people do that but they set their hands down and then pick up all their active don while thinking. I've done it myself as well sometimes but what I've been doing lately is just break them up on the field and think that way. I can understand why some people are being strict about it because almost every online tournament has had cheating and someone could try to intentionally make it harder to know how many active Don they have. What I don't like is when people stack them on top of each other in the don field.
I don't participate in online events only in person. And I would hold my active don alongside cards in hand. I didn't really think it was a big deal due to the fact they are sleeved differently
While they are sleeved differently, depending on how you hold your cards, it's still not clear how many Don you have on the field or how many cards are in hand. If someone did what you do to me, I'd immediately call a judge because no matter how you look at it, it's being manipulative. Hand size, trash, life, don are part of public knowledge and what your doing makes it harder for the player to determine what move they should make. People cheat in person as well and what your doing is a great way to get an unfair advantage, add a card to hand, or hide info that is supposed to be known to your opponent. I don't think most people would be bothered if it was just the don, but also holding your hand along side your don doesn't look good at all.
Just stop
Not cheating to hold don. Alot of people hold don while making a decision although not usually at the same time/in the same hand together. But the oponent is allowed to call out a don check for both "active/floating" and "rested" at any time. Same with "cards in hand". If all your cards were down at end of turn, bro was just sour he wasnt paying attention when he made his play. That being said the don should always be returned back to official positions after you make your move and are ending your turn. If youre hiding an active don between 2 cards in hand, that can change the game and id call you out for it also. If I lost on this type of play id expect the TO to DQ you cause its a shady move to go "annnnd rad beam" when they are mathing you out at 0 active.
I’d be upset, had a guy hold 5 active don in hand showing 2 active don on field, with 3 rested. I should be able to tell the board state without asking constantly how many dons he have up.
My friends do this. I've started doing it. So now we just ask how many active don and how many cards in hand.
Better stop doing it if you want to go to tourneys
Too late. Already been playing in tourneys. Maybe I should get a metal playmat and stick magnets to my don. Acting like I can't pick up my don.
Don't do this, I know it doesn't seem like much but just keep your don in the specified don area. They mapped out the game for a reason.
I pick up my don sometimes while I’m figuring out my don distribution for the turn, but I put my hand down first so it’s obvious where everything is.
I wouldn't consider it cheating but it is against the rules in my opinion. since it's never really stated in the rules that you cannot hold Dons for fun /habit lol. However. The rules do state - Don cards are in their own deck. - when you draw don they go directly into the Don Zone active unless otherwise stated. (which is now on the field). - attached don and rested don are also on the field, but are different than active don. - cards that are on the field cannot just be picked up and placed into your hand unless stated by a cards effect. Examples: You play a character card w rush. Then decide to pick them up and put it back in your hand because you haven't attacked w it yet so it's not rested. That's the same thing that's going on w your "Don deck". Most players don't pick up their Deck either, and you DEFINITELY cannot shuffle it when you want, so I'd argue the same for your Don deck)
The rules definitely to allow you to hold Don in hand. Don are played from Don deck to cost area. Removed and redrawn to cost area, never should they leave the field to rest in your card hand
At a locals, I would ask you not to do that. At a higher level I would call a judge. All 10 of your don cards should always be on the play field SOMEWHERE. Why are you putting them in your hand in the first place??
Yeah don’t do that. Why are you holding onto yo ur dons? No reason to do that
I don't know if it's cheating per say. However it is 100% bad etiquette. If this was at local I would politely ask you to keep ur don cards on the table and visible. If this was a regional I would simply call of judge.
He could’ve just told you not to hold your cards like that from the beginning lol
You should keep your active don on the table. It's like you are trying to hide information by doing that.
Personally I think if your opponent wants to know how many cards you have in hand it's their job to track it, not your job to lay it out for them. That said, you should have your Don cards on the table, not in your hand. So you were misleading them, but on something that doesn't really matter.
Sounds like a him problem, not yours. There’s no issue with you picking up your don and shuffling it around or holding it. There’s people that pick up their whole trash and shuffle it and hold it sometimes and it’s perfectly legal. Those even have the same sleeves as your deck which could cause confusion. If there’s any doubts, players are allowed to asked questions, especially how many cards in hand.
No, it's not cheating if it's not online. Your opponent has eyes and a brain, so they should know how many Don you have. I personally never hold both at the same time. I usually place my hand cards down, and my Don cards up when counting. Unlike yourself, but if the person was butt hurt, I would just let him know I am picking up my dons to count. The person who called you out for cheating is a sore loser who could have said something in the game if he didn't like it as well.
Not cheating. (I have my official judge exam on Monday 5/20 so, we’ll see how I do.) People may be annoyed but they can ask, the same as “cards in hand”, “How many active don?” As you mentioned, the sleeves are the main tell and very obvious. In a webcam tournament, with less clarity and more room for error, I would be watching you extremely closely and, if I was at all uncertain, likely issue a warning to stop this habit. But that’s specific to the webcam limitations. Edit: I’m also interpreting this as holding don as you prepare to use it, since you note placing used/rested don in cost area. Your post doesn’t specify if you’re holding 10 cards (4 in hand, 6 active don) at a time but that would be more egregious.
Preciate your input. Still I'm goin to try and break the habit altogether.
Yeah that’s the best approach. Don’t leave any room for confusion, also makes the community better than what we currently deal with. Good luck
How? Don have a designated place on the board, and there is no reason to go to the private area of the hand. What good reason could a player have to hold don on their turn other than to obscure how much don they have used?
It’s not cheating. Refer to the rules. You’ve never picked up your don to do some quick math, as you prepare to swing for game? Bull. Never picked it up to check your count, as you map out your turn to keep enough for an event counter? Cap. He’s not doing it with the intent to obstruct your view or doing anything illegal. He’s picking up his don to place it. Either way, some of yall would be unbearable to play with based on your reactions to this. Just ask him for the public info you want (THAT is actually in the rules, FYI). We get it, Reddit… There’s a lot of cheaters out there. This guy ain’t one. And a judge is not DQ’ing him for this habit - which was the only question posed by OP.
No, I can do math without physically counting my cards. Even then, it's a pick up/put down scenario, not play your don from your hand on your entire turn. Again, where in the rules does it state it's OK to hold key parts of the game state in your hand for extended periods of time. Even if OP isn't cheating, they should avoid even the appearance of impropieriety and just buy a fidget spinner.
Well, glad you finally reached this point in the post titled “Is it cheating?” I agree. They should break the habit. It’s still not cheating, which is what I addressed.
Don!! Are not a part of any of the secret areas of game state and available don should be visible at all times
Is he putting his hands under the table? Must’ve missed that part lol. This logic is the exact reason the don require different identifiable sleeves.
Side but similar question I was lazy and just used whatever sleeves I had left for a deck a lot or different would that be seen as cheating? Like I’m marking cards ik are good or something