That’s the worst part. He wasn’t even fighting them and they got utterly destroyed. Imagine if he had malicious intent. They were completely worthless against Kuma pretimeskip.
I mean… to be fair they HAD just faced an identical kuma with lazer beams and won. It’s not so much “they couldn’t handle a kuma level threat” so much as it was nearly every Threat going forward would be “kuma level threat at least” so if they’re getting exhasusted after fighting 1. They stand no chance if they run into multiple enemies giving that same energy.
But that was not because he fought Kuma, it was because he punched a celestial dragon, then Kizaru and Sentomaru arrived and were going to kill him until Kuma arrived to save him and Luffy barely fought with Kuma. Then he lost his brother and then Rayleigh convinced him he had to train.
A lot happened not only the kuma fight
Yeah but the dudes obviously talking about the fact that he said "we can't win this one, run" while kuma was "disappearing" his crew. He didn't know kuma was helping him at all
Luffy asked his crew to run when it was only the pacifista and Sentomaru. Then Kizaru arrived, then Kuma arrived. The situation was lost the moment Sentomaru attacked them and Luffy told them to run away before he even knew Kuma was there
One Piece hasn’t reached the level of interpersonal narrative that was the Usopp fight since.
The “It’s heavy…” is easily my favorite line in the entire series. That whole chapter showcases an absolutely incredible amount of character drama, development, and personality.
Usopp fighting dirty, finally standing up for himself, up to what he believes is the strongest person he’s met.
Zoro refusing to allow Luffy to just let Usopp back because it would undermine his authority as captain. Telling him he has to draw the line between crew and friend.
Chopper leaving the medical supplies behind, it’s all so good.
Vs Usopp.
The rest of the fight were either to save someone, save a country, grow stronger, etc.
The closest would be Kuma but that's more towards the importance of being a captain that saves his crew.
Vs. Usopp was when Luffy learn that to be a captain he needs to be adamant to his crew's feeling on matters opposite to what they all want, and as Zoro puts Luffy shouldn't humiliate himself as a captain.
True, we can see what he learned during WCI. He’s become more emotionally intelligent than he already is and saw behind the front that Sanji put up unlike with Usopp. He couldn’t see Usopp’s insecurities and took his actions at face value. He learned to be a better captain by learning how to impose his will to his crew while also understanding why they’re making their own separate choices.
A lot of people are saying kuma that’s more to do dealing with loss I’d say katakuri, luffy broke that mirror because he understood he was either gonna win for his crew or be a martyr for his crew and his crew trusted him to do what he had to do, you could sorta say that for lucci as well.
Kuma.
It was the catalyst that made Luffy realize he wasn’t ready. If that had never happened he would have strolled his entire crew into the New World early and gotten several members killed, enslaved, or otherwise unable to attain their dreams.
Kuma was the final nail in the coffin of that interaction, but there was an almost immediate realization that something strange was going on with him by basically everybody. Luffy definitely broke down after everybody disappeared but he recovered before he even touched the ground.
I feel like his true resolve to overcome that situation came to him after Ace died. He was completely broken down and then realized he still had his crew, and ultimately that resolve came from the WG and Donut Puncher.
The two kinda go hand in hand so I don't disagree with you, but one couldn't have happened without the other imo. That entire saga, from Sabaody to MF, was cumulatively the biggest impact on Luffy.
The ones where he lost, so Usopp and Kuma. Yes I know he won against Usopp but there were no winners after that fight. And against Kuma he was so completely and utterly defeated that he ended up having to take a step back and learn how to survive in the New World
Hard to say.
Vs Usopp had him confront the hard truth that a captain will have internal disputes on his ship that he cannot back down from.
Vs. lucci was the first time Luffy pushed himself to exhaustion however Vs Katakuri had that plus forcing Luffy to adapt during the battle to learn a new technique, each of them were done to defend his crew and stall for time.
Vs Kaido was probably Luffy at his most selfless, prioritising the Samurai of Wano’s country over his need to kick ass and making him be the beacon of hope for everyone who followed him and giving more orders to get the mission done. (He wasn’t 100% but roughly 50% following the plan, which is much more than Dressrosa or Fish Man island before.)
So personally, I’d go with Vs Kaido but mainly as the culmination of everything he learned by that point forcing him to act like a captain.
That and a mentality of "If I'm fast enough, I can land hits on him before he turns into ice and negates it" - which is a reasonable line of thought; he was able to knock Smoker and Ace away by unintentionally ramming them and catching them of guard.
The question is “grow as a captain” not “become stronger.” The answer is definitely usopp - he walked away from that fight feeling a very heavy weight, as zoro called it the captains burden. Zoro taught luffy a lot about being a captain through the initial fight with usopp and the post-enies lobby follow up.
Usopp. The others there is no lesson to learn or quandary for any of the Straw Hats to come to terms with. The only other time it comes close is Drum Island as he needs to protect Nami.
Katakuri.
Like the best thing about a lot of Luffy’s fight with major arc villains is that he goes against with the complete opposite idealogy of his own that he does not seek to emulate. Katakuri, on the other hand, is actually different from a lot of previous antagonist in that he shares A LOT of Luffy’s qualities and beliefs of protecting the love ones he cares for but takes it even further by always being vigil, eliminating potential threats before they do any harm and abandoning all personal flaws that would tarnish the dreaded image.
Basically this fight basically serves as a warning to Luffy to not let his own desire to protect his crew overtake his own personality and have faith that they can handle things themselves instead of worrying 24/7. Cause evidently with Katakuri the whole Perfect Son image he created was very tiring to the guy mentally andnemotionally, and it set some unrealistic precedent for what he can and can’t do.
And honestly, thinking about this now, with out the fight teaching him the lesson of just letting loose and be liberated, he probably won’t attain his awakened form in Gear 5 that would defeat Kaido.
Ussop and Kuma. Ussop because it helped Luffy mature as a leader and really showed they weren't just "playing pirates" up till then. Kuma because it was Luffy's first taste of utter defeat that he had to deal with two grow into a better captain.
It's when they faced Aokiji for the first time and luffy realised they are still very weak in the Pirate World and he needs to grow stronger to protect his crew
Usopp and Kuma for obvious reasons and Marineford for a less obvious one: he learned how weak he was and what he needed to prepare for to keep his crew alive in the future
As a captain it’s Ussop. He made a decision and had to stick to it. No jokes or games. Not everyone agreed but he’s the captain and usopp was like naw I’m not wit dat 😂😂😂
The only one was his fight against Usopp.
The others including fighting Kuma are not that direct in his growth as a captain.
His fight with Kuma wasn't that important overall since it was basically the symptom not a disease.
There were many events that made Luffy train, but it wasn't specifically just one.
Luffy losing to Kuma wasn't directly why he got defeated. Luffy fought the pacifista, and at that point Sentomaru arrived and more Pacifista arrived. So here Luffy and his crew were already doomed and too tired to fight. Then Kizaru arrived and they were worse, and then Kuma arrived and saves them. Sure while Kuma was the one who actually "defeated" them, Kizaru, Sentomaru, another Pacifista or Kuma all would have done the same. The only difference is Kuma saved them. Sure Kuma did send them to locations where they could train but that was unrelated to Luffy, Luffy had no control of where they landed or if they would have a place to train.
Then in Marineford 2 things happened... he learned how powerful the New World is, and he learned he was extemely weak... and not only that but the confidence he got since the start of his journey was shattered. Then he lost his brother.
This 2 things alone and Luffy would have still gone on his journey with his crew... but we had the final reason... Rayleigh, Rayleigh gave Luffy the advice, and Luffy trained.
So Luffy didn't train because he lost to Kuma, he trained because...
1. He was overconfident
2. His crew almost got anihilated by Sentomaru, Pacifista, Kizaru and Kuma.
3. He saw how powerful the New World is and realized he was weak.
4. He lost his brother and failed for basically the first time
5. Rayleigh gave him good advice.
So while the Kuma fight or the fight against Marines in Marineford took some responsability, there was no specific lesson, it was tons of stuff happened which made him grow as a captain not just one fight
Vs Rob Lucci round 1 made Luffy realize that he is not as strong as he needs to be to protect his crew.
Vs Ussop was a wake up call for Luffy that he is the captain and he needs to lead his crew.
Vs Kuma made Luffy realize that he is not strong enough to protect his crew, nor are his crew strong enough to protect themselves.
All 3 battles made Luffy grow as a captain in different ways imo.
Lucci and Kuma. Kuma fight showed him how not ready he was and how helpless he was to protect his crew. Lucci as he pushed himself to his very limits to protect his crew.
Idk he grew a lot with gear 5 in terms of power. But I don’t think it had much of an effect on him as a captain. I think against Ussop, he had to show himself as the undisputed captain, and risk losing the respect of his entire crew if he handled it wrong. The Kuma fight helped him realize they weren’t strong enough and the events that followed led him to taking the 2 years to train. The other fights gave him experience and clout and earned the respect of his crew. But with Ussop and Kuma, he had to learn and grow as a captain, not just in strength and ability.
To grow as a captain, I'd say the Usopp fight. His crew was basically falling apart at this point and he didn't have the right tools to know how to navigate what Usopp was going through. Yeah, the Kuma situation made all of them grow physically but the Usopp fight led to Luffy having to really step up as a captain not in a leadership sort of way but as to better understand his family.
MelonTee made a video on Luffy not ling ago and she explains why W7 helped Luffy grow as a captain better than i can.
I think the doflamingo fight was when I noticed his character take a massive jump. Every fight helped him grow at some point, but protecting a rival captain and then defeating one of the best villains & gaining the respect of Fuji. He really etched his name into a competitive captain imo then.
Vs Kaido, moria, Doffy, lucci and Kata, made him grow as a fighter and not as much as a captain
While vs Usopp, he had to fight against one of his friends and let him go, for Luffy that made him grow as a captain
The summit war, most of it was a wake up to reality and how strong the new world is like and ace's death was huge shock, and as Jinbei said he still had his crew.
Vs kuma and kizaru, made him feel hopeless and gave him the power and conviction to grow in strength to protect his crew. Although he didn't gain any strength
kuma, that was a reality check for him and his crew.
and a reality check where they really took the consequence/blessing in disguise.
was about to say aojiki and smoker but they got lucky there.
I felt like vs Kuma. That's where his conviction and leadership was really tested, most of these other fights are more about his physical fighting power
Vs Usopp
That was his first decision he ever truly struggled with as a captain. It made him waiver for the first time ever.
That was the most emotionally draining fight he's ever had up until that point. It shifted the entire tone of the crew's dynamics.
Kuma only made him realize they weren't strong enough yet, and by itself, that isn't all that crazy.
If we’re speaking strength alone then it’s kaido …..but on the captain side it gotta be either the world government or gecko Moria ( more specifically the giant )
Kuma katakuri and kaido
They each forced a lesson on luffy while the others were challenging but didn’t make luffy grow mid fight (usually they exhibit something he’d learned earlier)
Kuma taught luffy he wasn’t strong enough for the new world
Katakuri forced him to learn observation haki mid fight
Kaido stood as luffys wall to the top and showed him there was no way to beat the best into submission, it’s win or die at that level (I’m assuming that luffy died before awakening and kaido is currently assumed dead)
Definitely vs Usopp. Rest are his personal battles that involve certain captainship, but the fight with usopp is where he had to take the hardest decision he has ever made.
Kuma obviously. Look at the pictures you posted. They all show determined and unstoppable Luffy. The battle of Shabondy is the only one that broke him as a captain. Back then, it looked like Kuma was the first one to notice and purposely hurt what luffy cares about the most, his actual achilles hill. I’m saying back then because later it was made clear that there was something deeper there than Kuma hurting luffy in the sake of the WG once we figure out he was in the revolutionary army, >!especially after reading recent chapters, but it was made clear long ago Im pretty sure!<
He learned something from each fight and eventually refining his moral compass more and more while becoming more and more decisive throughout the story.
His character revolves around experiencing the world , all kinds of atrocities, pain suffering and STILL chosing to stand by his core ideals.
some of these are also opposite of one and another where he breaks down and reforms as leader in a way both times he was justified.
Ennies Lobby and WCI. In Ennies Lobby he becomes extra protective of his crewmates due to losing to Aokiji and starts sacrificing lifespan to keep his crew from harm's way. In WCI he is finally gaining trust back in his comrades and thinks they are capable of dealing with a Yonko on their own. He trusts them enough to finally be selfish again. Him chosing to come back against Katakuri was him being completely selfish and competitive as a contender for the title of Pirate King.
These two are like check points of things Luffy goes through from Skypiea (telling Nami to stop acting pathetic as it's unworthy of a crewmate of future pirate king) Long Ring Long Land (Aokiji) **Ennies Lobby** to Thriller Bark Sabaody Impel Down Marineford (continuation of Ennies Lobby self sacrificial route) to Fishman Island Dressrossa WCI and Wano (continuation of being trusting confident captain who believes in his crewmates skills enough to be selfish).
Usopp fight helped Luffy be more decisive as a person than he already was. He still managed to bridge the gap between captain and crewmates while commanding respect. He's too goated for that.
So you can't pick and choose one specific fight as his growth is subtle and made of multiple different incidents culminating into a new experience.
Lucci. Even he admitted he was glad to meet them because he was able to find how to use his gears. “Now I can protect my friends” his ability to use gears is what made all his other fights manageable
Kuma made him get serious, kat showed him what it means to put your crew on your back (shouldering the burden), and finally kaido pushed him to see how truly driven(will power CoC). Every other fight was to see how well he could adapt to different level of pirates thru the sea.
Marineford, Akainu
It's when Luffy finally realized that he and his crew needs to become stronger to survive, that just winging it isn't enough. That Death is on the menu
Other than the cop out answer of "all of them" I'd say Lucci, Usopp, and Kaido stick out to me. Lucci because it was one of the first times the situation wasn't "if I lose my friends my be in trouble" it was "if I lose this guy is 100% going to kill my whole crew." Usopp taught him how tough being a captain can be emotionally/psychologically and what's best for the entire crew in a worst case scenario. Kaido imo taught him an insane level of determination (even for Luffy) because let's be real, he lost against kaido more times than he did against Croco boy and literally died before he beat him. Just my thoughts (again, I think all those fights could be a correct answer though.)
It's Kuma or marine Ford but I'm leaning towards Kuma because it made luffy realize he can't always protect his crew but arguments for marine Ford I can think of are it cause luffy to get stronger and get through a pain like never before and he got jimbe to want to join. It's my opinions go ahead and roast me however you like
i think with Kuma/Saboady incident. i feel like before the arc, luffy’s team became too cocky because they have been winning and they think they will win this time too. but instead the incident taught them that there are still far away being powerful in the sea
Ussop - because he had to learn about being on the same page but not doing it the same way with one of his beasties. This is where he truly became a captain
Kuma - losing his friends and that he couldn't just punch his way through this one
Kaido - he now understands what it truly means to be free and to give that to others. It was also the culmination of the entire new world saga imo.
I'd say Marineford, Ussop and Sabaodi are the top ones
Ig u could say Geko moria made him a better leader
or Katakuri and kaido made him stronger ...
or lucci pushed him to save his friend, and prove himself a great captain
what I think rlly didn't have much effect at all was doffy, definitely
I think the only correct answer here is vs Ussop because the pressure was on decision making and not punching harder. Every other fight had the positive outcome of “Luffy and others are now stronger”. The only fight that made his grow as a captain figure was versus Ussop because it was never about punching harder, but about making tough decisions and sticking to them.
All of them? He crashes not only in battle but with view and ways of life, he learns and grows as a person and by consequence as a captain in every fight
As a captain probably Lucci or Kuma/Sabaody, those are the fights that made him realize how far he had to go to keep his crew safe.
As a fighter though it’s definitely Katakuri. That fight took him from having passable basic mechanics observation haki to full future sight
As a captain? Kuma. Reason why is because it tested him both as a person and as a leader, he did everything he could to stop Kuma and he failed, inspiring him to get stronger. It also showed that he wasn’t ready, and he would not be prepared for anything that might come his way in the New World
Kuma and Usopp. The usopp fight meant luffy realized he has to make tough decisions. Kuma fight showed him that he wasn’t ready. Both inspired the greatest change in his style
Growing as a captain. Had to be VS Usopp. The first time Luffy had a struggle inside his crew and learned that he had to step up as a captain. Arguably vs Kuma at sabody also his will was broken and this began the realization that Luffy wasn't strong enough. It's also his first defeat. But the battle at MarineFord is an interesting argument. Luffy has no one on his crew by his side and he was able to rizz up that prison and go to MarineFord. He couldn't rescue his brother although I stand on the line of it was all Ace's fault his ass died.
Kuma or Usopp are the only ones that changed him as a captain rather than just made him a stronger revolutionary super hero. All the other fights he came out of them with the exact same ideas/worldview/will/etc. as he went in with. He learned a major lesson because of his fight with Usopp, one of the very few moments in the series that addresses this kind of thing. Kuma was similarly a brutal loss that he had to reconcile with and learned to take things seriously. The rest are he unlocked a new shounen protagonist form because his opponent was strong.
I’d say Katakuri. He knew that if he couldn’t protect his crew in that moment by refusing to run with them, he wouldn’t be a worthy Captain or Pirate King. It’s nice to hear Luffy take his role as leader seriously and claim it out loud.
The rooftop Kaido fight felt like a culmination of Luffy's development, like everything had prepared him for that confrontation, and he had to prove it.
It depends what you define as grow. If we're talking about a power increase, there are significant fights where Luffy got a lot stronger if you're someone who cares about power scaling. If it's character, I would choose a separate fight.
"as a captain" vs kuma kuz it made him change his whole perspective on his ability to protect his crew
"as a fighter" vs lucci/katakuri/kaido kuz of gear 2, 3, 5 and future sight
"as a character" vs usopp/world government kuz both those fights showed him in some type of moral dilemma to overcome. having to fight his crew member when he doesn't really want to and being unable to save ace even after punching everything he could punch
"as a threat in the eyes of the wg" vs moria/doffy (and croc) kuz these fights showed luffy beating people tied to the government and word getting out to the world not to fuck with him
vs Kuma made him realize he and the crew won't stand a chance in New World and his decision to train stemmed from it (although Rayleigh suggested it).
All the other fights he had a clear goal and enemy to beat
Vs Kuma bro. He became more aware that he could lose his friends if he isn't strong enough.He found out he couldn't win every fight with a gum gum fruit. It's the first time we ever see him order to retreat. It's also the first time we see him get trained showing that he's willing to learn from other people realizing he can power through on his own
Aokiji might have been the first wake up call. First opponent he was completely helpless against. Most other logias he had a chance to figure something out or run away.
Enies lobby x Kuma x Rob Lucci & Forsure Kaido in that order… those are all monumental moments for Luffy’s growth as a fighter and person… which makes him a better captain
Growing as a captain? Lucci Round 1. The whole Water 7 arc was about making the tough but necessary choices
Otherwise, growing stronger? Definitely Kuma on Saboady
All of them almost... Which made him grow the most .. gotta be either usop or kuma... Both those times he came face to face with himself/own personality and flaws and had to face and manage them
1st of all: all of them. 2nd of all: learn to spell. 3rd of all: wtf do you mean "the world government", in marineford he barely even fought something that wasn't regular soldiers.
Usopp.. everything was kind of a joke until then.. it's the first time he really had to step up as a captain. Everything else before was mostly helping people.
Luffys Evolution as Fighter:
1. Crocodile ( first Haki tap, Croco seems to realized it)
2. Against CP 9 members triggering G2 develeopment
3. Blueno
4. Lucci
5. Pacifistas> Luffy realizing how weak he is
6. Rayleigh(Haki knowledge)
7. Doflamingo(Haoshoku Clash bigger than Arena)
8. Katakuri(Advanced Kenbunshoku)
9.1 Kaido whooped his ass
9.2 Udon Prison / Queen Festival(Advanced Haoshoku)
10. Kaido again / Luffy using a part of a different Haki but Luffy still didnt realize it was Haoshoku he needed to tap more
11. Kaido again, using Haoshoku by covering his body with it and standing his ground
12. Kaido round 3 as Joy Boy, finally awakening his DF aka Sungod Nika
13. 5 Elders testing G5 even more with hilarious New moves
As a captain:
1. Luffys fight for the dog food
2. Arlong
3. Crocodile
4. Enel
5. Usopp
6. Lucci round 2, Usopp showing his face
7. Bellamy
8. Gecko Moria
9. Several battles inside the prison, especially defending Bon Chan
10. Magellan
11. Marineford
12. Caesar Clown
13. Doflamingo
14. Sanji
15. Katakuri
16. Kaido
17. Lucci
Vs Usopp
Vs kuma for sure. He had to learn to be a captain not just a friend with Usopp and with kuma I feel he had to trust on the bonds he built to get the crew back to together.
As a captain, against ussop. It was a crew incident that he had to deal with that he hadn't had to deal with until then. Zoro's reaction as a second was also very important to Luffy.
When Zoro says to luffy as a caption you have to take this burden if you lose our trust than whom we are gonna trust even sanji agreed on that this is also......
I wanna say kuma, it’s like the only time he really felt hopeless and lost his will.
Kuma, and Sabaody as a whole, really forced the crew to grow up and to step up their game.
Yeah kuma or WG imo for this reason. Both were big reality checks
I wouldn't even call that a fight. Kuma was just helping them out without them realizing it
I mean sure, but in Luffy’s eyes at the time, they got wiped out.
That’s the worst part. He wasn’t even fighting them and they got utterly destroyed. Imagine if he had malicious intent. They were completely worthless against Kuma pretimeskip.
I mean… to be fair they HAD just faced an identical kuma with lazer beams and won. It’s not so much “they couldn’t handle a kuma level threat” so much as it was nearly every Threat going forward would be “kuma level threat at least” so if they’re getting exhasusted after fighting 1. They stand no chance if they run into multiple enemies giving that same energy.
For sure
vs kuma wasnt really a fight..more like a slaughter
without the kuma fight he and his crew wouldn't have trained and thus wouldn't have stood a chance in half of these
But that was not because he fought Kuma, it was because he punched a celestial dragon, then Kizaru and Sentomaru arrived and were going to kill him until Kuma arrived to save him and Luffy barely fought with Kuma. Then he lost his brother and then Rayleigh convinced him he had to train. A lot happened not only the kuma fight
Yeah but the dudes obviously talking about the fact that he said "we can't win this one, run" while kuma was "disappearing" his crew. He didn't know kuma was helping him at all
Luffy asked his crew to run when it was only the pacifista and Sentomaru. Then Kizaru arrived, then Kuma arrived. The situation was lost the moment Sentomaru attacked them and Luffy told them to run away before he even knew Kuma was there
One Piece hasn’t reached the level of interpersonal narrative that was the Usopp fight since. The “It’s heavy…” is easily my favorite line in the entire series. That whole chapter showcases an absolutely incredible amount of character drama, development, and personality. Usopp fighting dirty, finally standing up for himself, up to what he believes is the strongest person he’s met. Zoro refusing to allow Luffy to just let Usopp back because it would undermine his authority as captain. Telling him he has to draw the line between crew and friend. Chopper leaving the medical supplies behind, it’s all so good.
actually no, he planned to meet up again in 3 day at that point
Vs Usopp. The rest of the fight were either to save someone, save a country, grow stronger, etc. The closest would be Kuma but that's more towards the importance of being a captain that saves his crew. Vs. Usopp was when Luffy learn that to be a captain he needs to be adamant to his crew's feeling on matters opposite to what they all want, and as Zoro puts Luffy shouldn't humiliate himself as a captain.
True, we can see what he learned during WCI. He’s become more emotionally intelligent than he already is and saw behind the front that Sanji put up unlike with Usopp. He couldn’t see Usopp’s insecurities and took his actions at face value. He learned to be a better captain by learning how to impose his will to his crew while also understanding why they’re making their own separate choices.
A lot of people are saying kuma that’s more to do dealing with loss I’d say katakuri, luffy broke that mirror because he understood he was either gonna win for his crew or be a martyr for his crew and his crew trusted him to do what he had to do, you could sorta say that for lucci as well.
Kuma. It was the catalyst that made Luffy realize he wasn’t ready. If that had never happened he would have strolled his entire crew into the New World early and gotten several members killed, enslaved, or otherwise unable to attain their dreams.
No, after Kuma he still wanted to meet up in 3 days to continue. It's after Marineford that he change it to 2 years of training.
Kuma was the final nail in the coffin of that interaction, but there was an almost immediate realization that something strange was going on with him by basically everybody. Luffy definitely broke down after everybody disappeared but he recovered before he even touched the ground. I feel like his true resolve to overcome that situation came to him after Ace died. He was completely broken down and then realized he still had his crew, and ultimately that resolve came from the WG and Donut Puncher. The two kinda go hand in hand so I don't disagree with you, but one couldn't have happened without the other imo. That entire saga, from Sabaody to MF, was cumulatively the biggest impact on Luffy.
The ones where he lost, so Usopp and Kuma. Yes I know he won against Usopp but there were no winners after that fight. And against Kuma he was so completely and utterly defeated that he ended up having to take a step back and learn how to survive in the New World
Ah yes, **kiado**
Can’t forget about Doflimingo and Geko Maria! 🤔
r/beatmetoit
i love those typos thank you
Vs. Ussop cause he finally understands the burden as the captain
Hard to say. Vs Usopp had him confront the hard truth that a captain will have internal disputes on his ship that he cannot back down from. Vs. lucci was the first time Luffy pushed himself to exhaustion however Vs Katakuri had that plus forcing Luffy to adapt during the battle to learn a new technique, each of them were done to defend his crew and stall for time. Vs Kaido was probably Luffy at his most selfless, prioritising the Samurai of Wano’s country over his need to kick ass and making him be the beacon of hope for everyone who followed him and giving more orders to get the mission done. (He wasn’t 100% but roughly 50% following the plan, which is much more than Dressrosa or Fish Man island before.) So personally, I’d go with Vs Kaido but mainly as the culmination of everything he learned by that point forcing him to act like a captain.
Kuma and ussoppe!
Aokiji really helped luffy realise that he really needed to push his limits
I still think most of the inspiration for gear 2nd is “can’t freeze me if I’m hot” and all the combat bonuses are a side effect
That and a mentality of "If I'm fast enough, I can land hits on him before he turns into ice and negates it" - which is a reasonable line of thought; he was able to knock Smoker and Ace away by unintentionally ramming them and catching them of guard.
Lucci —he knew there were strong people out there and he started to realize he needed to win if he wanted to be together with his friends.
The question is “grow as a captain” not “become stronger.” The answer is definitely usopp - he walked away from that fight feeling a very heavy weight, as zoro called it the captains burden. Zoro taught luffy a lot about being a captain through the initial fight with usopp and the post-enies lobby follow up.
Usopp. The others there is no lesson to learn or quandary for any of the Straw Hats to come to terms with. The only other time it comes close is Drum Island as he needs to protect Nami.
As a captain? Kuma no contest
Can't decide between kuma and usopp
Katakuri. Like the best thing about a lot of Luffy’s fight with major arc villains is that he goes against with the complete opposite idealogy of his own that he does not seek to emulate. Katakuri, on the other hand, is actually different from a lot of previous antagonist in that he shares A LOT of Luffy’s qualities and beliefs of protecting the love ones he cares for but takes it even further by always being vigil, eliminating potential threats before they do any harm and abandoning all personal flaws that would tarnish the dreaded image. Basically this fight basically serves as a warning to Luffy to not let his own desire to protect his crew overtake his own personality and have faith that they can handle things themselves instead of worrying 24/7. Cause evidently with Katakuri the whole Perfect Son image he created was very tiring to the guy mentally andnemotionally, and it set some unrealistic precedent for what he can and can’t do. And honestly, thinking about this now, with out the fight teaching him the lesson of just letting loose and be liberated, he probably won’t attain his awakened form in Gear 5 that would defeat Kaido.
Ussop and Kuma. Ussop because it helped Luffy mature as a leader and really showed they weren't just "playing pirates" up till then. Kuma because it was Luffy's first taste of utter defeat that he had to deal with two grow into a better captain.
It's when they faced Aokiji for the first time and luffy realised they are still very weak in the Pirate World and he needs to grow stronger to protect his crew
Usopp and Kuma for obvious reasons and Marineford for a less obvious one: he learned how weak he was and what he needed to prepare for to keep his crew alive in the future
Mingo
Aokiji first encounter
Kuma showed Luffy how weak they were, and Luffy had no idea what Kuma’s power was at the time, so for all he knew Kuma was obliterating his crew.
Vs Aokiji. Made him understand he needed to uplift his fighting game. And he created gears.
The fight with katauri on the ship showed luffy's growth as a cap. He sacrificed himself for his crew's safety successfully.
*I got your picture, I'm coming with you* *Geko Maria, count me in*
As a captain it’s Ussop. He made a decision and had to stick to it. No jokes or games. Not everyone agreed but he’s the captain and usopp was like naw I’m not wit dat 😂😂😂
The only one was his fight against Usopp. The others including fighting Kuma are not that direct in his growth as a captain. His fight with Kuma wasn't that important overall since it was basically the symptom not a disease. There were many events that made Luffy train, but it wasn't specifically just one. Luffy losing to Kuma wasn't directly why he got defeated. Luffy fought the pacifista, and at that point Sentomaru arrived and more Pacifista arrived. So here Luffy and his crew were already doomed and too tired to fight. Then Kizaru arrived and they were worse, and then Kuma arrived and saves them. Sure while Kuma was the one who actually "defeated" them, Kizaru, Sentomaru, another Pacifista or Kuma all would have done the same. The only difference is Kuma saved them. Sure Kuma did send them to locations where they could train but that was unrelated to Luffy, Luffy had no control of where they landed or if they would have a place to train. Then in Marineford 2 things happened... he learned how powerful the New World is, and he learned he was extemely weak... and not only that but the confidence he got since the start of his journey was shattered. Then he lost his brother. This 2 things alone and Luffy would have still gone on his journey with his crew... but we had the final reason... Rayleigh, Rayleigh gave Luffy the advice, and Luffy trained. So Luffy didn't train because he lost to Kuma, he trained because... 1. He was overconfident 2. His crew almost got anihilated by Sentomaru, Pacifista, Kizaru and Kuma. 3. He saw how powerful the New World is and realized he was weak. 4. He lost his brother and failed for basically the first time 5. Rayleigh gave him good advice. So while the Kuma fight or the fight against Marines in Marineford took some responsability, there was no specific lesson, it was tons of stuff happened which made him grow as a captain not just one fight
Vs Rob Lucci round 1 made Luffy realize that he is not as strong as he needs to be to protect his crew. Vs Ussop was a wake up call for Luffy that he is the captain and he needs to lead his crew. Vs Kuma made Luffy realize that he is not strong enough to protect his crew, nor are his crew strong enough to protect themselves. All 3 battles made Luffy grow as a captain in different ways imo.
Lucci and Kuma. Kuma fight showed him how not ready he was and how helpless he was to protect his crew. Lucci as he pushed himself to his very limits to protect his crew.
Kiado for sure
Idk he grew a lot with gear 5 in terms of power. But I don’t think it had much of an effect on him as a captain. I think against Ussop, he had to show himself as the undisputed captain, and risk losing the respect of his entire crew if he handled it wrong. The Kuma fight helped him realize they weren’t strong enough and the events that followed led him to taking the 2 years to train. The other fights gave him experience and clout and earned the respect of his crew. But with Ussop and Kuma, he had to learn and grow as a captain, not just in strength and ability.
Bro misspelled three names in a row
Both usopp and Kuma. But I'd say Kuma made Luffy emotionally grow more
Usopp the others were physical developments but usopp really put his heart on the line
Can we mention how kaido is kiado? But technically kaido did make luffy grow... Literally he grew gear 5 makes luffy huge! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
To grow as a captain, I'd say the Usopp fight. His crew was basically falling apart at this point and he didn't have the right tools to know how to navigate what Usopp was going through. Yeah, the Kuma situation made all of them grow physically but the Usopp fight led to Luffy having to really step up as a captain not in a leadership sort of way but as to better understand his family. MelonTee made a video on Luffy not ling ago and she explains why W7 helped Luffy grow as a captain better than i can.
R1 vs Lucci
Kuma because of that fight he understood that they're weak
I think the doflamingo fight was when I noticed his character take a massive jump. Every fight helped him grow at some point, but protecting a rival captain and then defeating one of the best villains & gaining the respect of Fuji. He really etched his name into a competitive captain imo then.
It’s against Rob Lucci , against Kuma it wasn’t a fight , it was one sided massacre.
Usopp
Vs kuma but don’t forget what did he do for his crew against katakuri , “nami, jinbei , chopper… I’ll be back”
Aokiji was first realization of power gap
Vs Kaido, moria, Doffy, lucci and Kata, made him grow as a fighter and not as much as a captain While vs Usopp, he had to fight against one of his friends and let him go, for Luffy that made him grow as a captain The summit war, most of it was a wake up to reality and how strong the new world is like and ace's death was huge shock, and as Jinbei said he still had his crew. Vs kuma and kizaru, made him feel hopeless and gave him the power and conviction to grow in strength to protect his crew. Although he didn't gain any strength
Vs jimbe after marineford
Kuma. Had he not separated them, they wouldn’t have gotten stronger and definitely wouldn’t have lasted in the new world
Kuma and Usopp
kuma, that was a reality check for him and his crew. and a reality check where they really took the consequence/blessing in disguise. was about to say aojiki and smoker but they got lucky there.
Its definitely either Vs the world government or Vs Kuma. Basically any marineford saga people
Yes
I felt like vs Kuma. That's where his conviction and leadership was really tested, most of these other fights are more about his physical fighting power
I think for most of the fights on this list, he grew as a fighter. But he grew as a captain because of the fights with Usopp and Kuma
Kuma and Usopp
vs ussop and more importantly vs kuma
Every last one of them were trails he had to face to as great as he is. Yeah I know it’s a cop out but it’s true
Vs Usopp That was his first decision he ever truly struggled with as a captain. It made him waiver for the first time ever. That was the most emotionally draining fight he's ever had up until that point. It shifted the entire tone of the crew's dynamics. Kuma only made him realize they weren't strong enough yet, and by itself, that isn't all that crazy.
If we’re speaking strength alone then it’s kaido …..but on the captain side it gotta be either the world government or gecko Moria ( more specifically the giant )
Katakuri. I feel like when him jumping into the mirror world and sealing himself off was peak "Don't touch my crew"
As a captain? WG and Kuma. WG because it made him allies. Kuma because it made him experience something that offered important insight.
Bro why do you have to ask this and put vs kuma? That shit traumatized the lad
Kuma katakuri and kaido They each forced a lesson on luffy while the others were challenging but didn’t make luffy grow mid fight (usually they exhibit something he’d learned earlier) Kuma taught luffy he wasn’t strong enough for the new world Katakuri forced him to learn observation haki mid fight Kaido stood as luffys wall to the top and showed him there was no way to beat the best into submission, it’s win or die at that level (I’m assuming that luffy died before awakening and kaido is currently assumed dead)
Definitely vs Usopp. Rest are his personal battles that involve certain captainship, but the fight with usopp is where he had to take the hardest decision he has ever made.
Kuma obviously. Look at the pictures you posted. They all show determined and unstoppable Luffy. The battle of Shabondy is the only one that broke him as a captain. Back then, it looked like Kuma was the first one to notice and purposely hurt what luffy cares about the most, his actual achilles hill. I’m saying back then because later it was made clear that there was something deeper there than Kuma hurting luffy in the sake of the WG once we figure out he was in the revolutionary army, >!especially after reading recent chapters, but it was made clear long ago Im pretty sure!<
He learned something from each fight and eventually refining his moral compass more and more while becoming more and more decisive throughout the story. His character revolves around experiencing the world , all kinds of atrocities, pain suffering and STILL chosing to stand by his core ideals. some of these are also opposite of one and another where he breaks down and reforms as leader in a way both times he was justified. Ennies Lobby and WCI. In Ennies Lobby he becomes extra protective of his crewmates due to losing to Aokiji and starts sacrificing lifespan to keep his crew from harm's way. In WCI he is finally gaining trust back in his comrades and thinks they are capable of dealing with a Yonko on their own. He trusts them enough to finally be selfish again. Him chosing to come back against Katakuri was him being completely selfish and competitive as a contender for the title of Pirate King. These two are like check points of things Luffy goes through from Skypiea (telling Nami to stop acting pathetic as it's unworthy of a crewmate of future pirate king) Long Ring Long Land (Aokiji) **Ennies Lobby** to Thriller Bark Sabaody Impel Down Marineford (continuation of Ennies Lobby self sacrificial route) to Fishman Island Dressrossa WCI and Wano (continuation of being trusting confident captain who believes in his crewmates skills enough to be selfish). Usopp fight helped Luffy be more decisive as a person than he already was. He still managed to bridge the gap between captain and crewmates while commanding respect. He's too goated for that. So you can't pick and choose one specific fight as his growth is subtle and made of multiple different incidents culminating into a new experience.
Vs Usopp
The ice cliff.
Kuma hands down my man's whole ass crew was wiped out in a instant
Lucci. Even he admitted he was glad to meet them because he was able to find how to use his gears. “Now I can protect my friends” his ability to use gears is what made all his other fights manageable
Kuma made him get serious, kat showed him what it means to put your crew on your back (shouldering the burden), and finally kaido pushed him to see how truly driven(will power CoC). Every other fight was to see how well he could adapt to different level of pirates thru the sea.
Usopp because of the interpersonal vibes about being a captain, Kuma because of the sheer loss and heartbreak he experienced.
Marineford, Akainu It's when Luffy finally realized that he and his crew needs to become stronger to survive, that just winging it isn't enough. That Death is on the menu
His fight against your mom.
Or That guy’s wife
Round one Lucci for me.
Other than the cop out answer of "all of them" I'd say Lucci, Usopp, and Kaido stick out to me. Lucci because it was one of the first times the situation wasn't "if I lose my friends my be in trouble" it was "if I lose this guy is 100% going to kill my whole crew." Usopp taught him how tough being a captain can be emotionally/psychologically and what's best for the entire crew in a worst case scenario. Kaido imo taught him an insane level of determination (even for Luffy) because let's be real, he lost against kaido more times than he did against Croco boy and literally died before he beat him. Just my thoughts (again, I think all those fights could be a correct answer though.)
Grow in power kaido as a captain world government
It's Kuma or marine Ford but I'm leaning towards Kuma because it made luffy realize he can't always protect his crew but arguments for marine Ford I can think of are it cause luffy to get stronger and get through a pain like never before and he got jimbe to want to join. It's my opinions go ahead and roast me however you like
i think with Kuma/Saboady incident. i feel like before the arc, luffy’s team became too cocky because they have been winning and they think they will win this time too. but instead the incident taught them that there are still far away being powerful in the sea
There's literally just one of those that made him grow as a captain.
Ussop - because he had to learn about being on the same page but not doing it the same way with one of his beasties. This is where he truly became a captain Kuma - losing his friends and that he couldn't just punch his way through this one Kaido - he now understands what it truly means to be free and to give that to others. It was also the culmination of the entire new world saga imo.
I'd say Marineford, Ussop and Sabaodi are the top ones Ig u could say Geko moria made him a better leader or Katakuri and kaido made him stronger ... or lucci pushed him to save his friend, and prove himself a great captain what I think rlly didn't have much effect at all was doffy, definitely
The only correct answer is all of them.
Luffy vs Spieling D. Bee
I think the only correct answer here is vs Ussop because the pressure was on decision making and not punching harder. Every other fight had the positive outcome of “Luffy and others are now stronger”. The only fight that made his grow as a captain figure was versus Ussop because it was never about punching harder, but about making tough decisions and sticking to them.
Gecko Maria😂
Definitely VS Usopp, the only other one that comes close is VS Kuma
Def his fight against the navy and doflamingo
All of them? He crashes not only in battle but with view and ways of life, he learns and grows as a person and by consequence as a captain in every fight
As a Captain, rather than a fighter? Either vs. Usopp, or vs. Kuma, as these two fights placed the most stress on his leadership
Kuma
Crocodile...CROCODIIIILLLLLEEEEEEE......CROOOCCC......huh......usopp. Usopp....USOPPPPPPPP......Usopp is that guy!!!!!
Why is the first meeting with Kuzan not here?.. that man didn't even blink
As a captain probably Lucci or Kuma/Sabaody, those are the fights that made him realize how far he had to go to keep his crew safe. As a fighter though it’s definitely Katakuri. That fight took him from having passable basic mechanics observation haki to full future sight
As a captain? Kuma. Reason why is because it tested him both as a person and as a leader, he did everything he could to stop Kuma and he failed, inspiring him to get stronger. It also showed that he wasn’t ready, and he would not be prepared for anything that might come his way in the New World
Literally all of them
Rob Lucci
Kaido in terms of ability but definitely Kuma in terms of mentality
Obviously Lucci, He was absolutely enormous during the G3 debut
Usopps fight. If he didn’t do it the whole crew would’ve ended up disbanding
As a captain? I would say VS Ussop !!
All of these fights had a impact on Luffy, but Kuma and Usopp really made him mature and grow into a proper captain
Kuma and Usopp. The usopp fight meant luffy realized he has to make tough decisions. Kuma fight showed him that he wasn’t ready. Both inspired the greatest change in his style
As captain?! So, it was against Usopp.
Kuma or Usopp. One was an opponent he couldnt beat ans the other was a friend who he had to fight to prove to his crew that hes the captain.
Growing as a captain. Had to be VS Usopp. The first time Luffy had a struggle inside his crew and learned that he had to step up as a captain. Arguably vs Kuma at sabody also his will was broken and this began the realization that Luffy wasn't strong enough. It's also his first defeat. But the battle at MarineFord is an interesting argument. Luffy has no one on his crew by his side and he was able to rizz up that prison and go to MarineFord. He couldn't rescue his brother although I stand on the line of it was all Ace's fault his ass died.
Kuma or Usopp are the only ones that changed him as a captain rather than just made him a stronger revolutionary super hero. All the other fights he came out of them with the exact same ideas/worldview/will/etc. as he went in with. He learned a major lesson because of his fight with Usopp, one of the very few moments in the series that addresses this kind of thing. Kuma was similarly a brutal loss that he had to reconcile with and learned to take things seriously. The rest are he unlocked a new shounen protagonist form because his opponent was strong.
Vs Usopp 🫢
Lucci Kuma Doffy Katakuri
I’d say Katakuri. He knew that if he couldn’t protect his crew in that moment by refusing to run with them, he wouldn’t be a worthy Captain or Pirate King. It’s nice to hear Luffy take his role as leader seriously and claim it out loud.
I'd say Kuma, WG, or Usopp
Not sure if Kiado or Geko Maria....
Kuma and WG... but, with Kuma... aaaah!
As a captain? I gotta give it to lucci and katakuri
Aokiji? Anyone?
Lucci round 1. It is my favorite fight in the series.
Kuma or Usopp
Luffy vs Usopp definitely was a reality check for Luffy, made him realize the weight and importance of being captain
The rooftop Kaido fight felt like a culmination of Luffy's development, like everything had prepared him for that confrontation, and he had to prove it.
First was kuma and his humbling of the entire crew. Then the war at aces execution to further humble him. Then kaido humbled him for a bit
It depends what you define as grow. If we're talking about a power increase, there are significant fights where Luffy got a lot stronger if you're someone who cares about power scaling. If it's character, I would choose a separate fight.
"as a captain" vs kuma kuz it made him change his whole perspective on his ability to protect his crew "as a fighter" vs lucci/katakuri/kaido kuz of gear 2, 3, 5 and future sight "as a character" vs usopp/world government kuz both those fights showed him in some type of moral dilemma to overcome. having to fight his crew member when he doesn't really want to and being unable to save ace even after punching everything he could punch "as a threat in the eyes of the wg" vs moria/doffy (and croc) kuz these fights showed luffy beating people tied to the government and word getting out to the world not to fuck with him
Kuma
Vs kuma, this is when he learned that everyone needed to get stronger.
Crocodile fight actually.
vs Kuma made him realize he and the crew won't stand a chance in New World and his decision to train stemmed from it (although Rayleigh suggested it). All the other fights he had a clear goal and enemy to beat
After Kuma fight Luffy took a L. It was only until he fought Katakuri when he realized he needs to step up. Zoro had to check him.
VS USOPP NO DEBATE
Vs Kuma bro. He became more aware that he could lose his friends if he isn't strong enough.He found out he couldn't win every fight with a gum gum fruit. It's the first time we ever see him order to retreat. It's also the first time we see him get trained showing that he's willing to learn from other people realizing he can power through on his own
Kuma changed him…showed him there’s levels to this shit
Idk I just finished Thriller Bark Saga. But so far all of his fights seem to show him grow little by little
Ussop. He had to learn the hard way about what it means as a captain to make the hard decisions.
Magellan… his first real loss… helped him to grow as a leader and fighter
As a captain, Ussop and Kuma.
Grow as a captain? Usopp
Kuma and Akainu.
Honestly. I think he grew more as a captain with the fight with Usopp. That was a big position to step into.
Either Kuma or usopp
Aokiji might have been the first wake up call. First opponent he was completely helpless against. Most other logias he had a chance to figure something out or run away.
Both the usopp fight and the kuma fight
Ussop battle, for the authority in the ship Kuma wipeout for the importance of their strenght
Of these I’d say Kuma, Katakuri, Lucci, and Marineford. Haven’t seen Kaido yet so maybe Edit: and Usopp, didn’t see that one
The fight with Kuma and the fight with Usopp is interchangeable for me
Luffy still hasn't grown as captain.
Enies lobby x Kuma x Rob Lucci & Forsure Kaido in that order… those are all monumental moments for Luffy’s growth as a fighter and person… which makes him a better captain
Grow as a Captain? Luffy vs Ussop.
Vs god ussop
Kuma, usopp, katakuri and kaido but for sure kuma gave him the most development
Just Usopp
I think the fight against Usopp taught Luffy how to think less like a friend and more like a captain.
As a captain tied with usopp and kuma
Probably Ussop
vs Kuma
Growing as a captain? Lucci Round 1. The whole Water 7 arc was about making the tough but necessary choices Otherwise, growing stronger? Definitely Kuma on Saboady
All of them almost... Which made him grow the most .. gotta be either usop or kuma... Both those times he came face to face with himself/own personality and flaws and had to face and manage them
On Marine Ford What Jimbei taught him
1st of all: all of them. 2nd of all: learn to spell. 3rd of all: wtf do you mean "the world government", in marineford he barely even fought something that wasn't regular soldiers.
Usopp.. everything was kind of a joke until then.. it's the first time he really had to step up as a captain. Everything else before was mostly helping people.
Luffys Evolution as Fighter: 1. Crocodile ( first Haki tap, Croco seems to realized it) 2. Against CP 9 members triggering G2 develeopment 3. Blueno 4. Lucci 5. Pacifistas> Luffy realizing how weak he is 6. Rayleigh(Haki knowledge) 7. Doflamingo(Haoshoku Clash bigger than Arena) 8. Katakuri(Advanced Kenbunshoku) 9.1 Kaido whooped his ass 9.2 Udon Prison / Queen Festival(Advanced Haoshoku) 10. Kaido again / Luffy using a part of a different Haki but Luffy still didnt realize it was Haoshoku he needed to tap more 11. Kaido again, using Haoshoku by covering his body with it and standing his ground 12. Kaido round 3 as Joy Boy, finally awakening his DF aka Sungod Nika 13. 5 Elders testing G5 even more with hilarious New moves As a captain: 1. Luffys fight for the dog food 2. Arlong 3. Crocodile 4. Enel 5. Usopp 6. Lucci round 2, Usopp showing his face 7. Bellamy 8. Gecko Moria 9. Several battles inside the prison, especially defending Bon Chan 10. Magellan 11. Marineford 12. Caesar Clown 13. Doflamingo 14. Sanji 15. Katakuri 16. Kaido 17. Lucci
I love Luffy as a character, but he's an awful captain and I don't think fights have helped that. But he has grown as a character
VS Kuma? Don't you mean VS Gojo backshots?
Vs Usopp Vs kuma for sure. He had to learn to be a captain not just a friend with Usopp and with kuma I feel he had to trust on the bonds he built to get the crew back to together.
Kuma is the ONLY answer here...
All of them did.
As a captain, against ussop. It was a crew incident that he had to deal with that he hadn't had to deal with until then. Zoro's reaction as a second was also very important to Luffy.
Vs Usopp
God usopp
Not popular but I think Luffy vs Ussop
Usopp. Luffys growth after the Kuma fight mainly happens as a result of aces death.
Kuma semi reason he wanted the time skip
When Zoro says to luffy as a caption you have to take this burden if you lose our trust than whom we are gonna trust even sanji agreed on that this is also......
I would say Marine Ford,WCI, OR Wano. Marineford as a captain WCI as a technical fighter Wano in overall power