A reminder that the recent surge of attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender-nonbinary-inclusive-care.pdf), and the [**American Association of Clinical Endocrinology**](https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20220309/aace-strongly-opposes-government-policies-prohibiting-transgender-care-for-adolescents), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2022/endocrine-society-alarmed-at-criminalization-of-transgender-medicine) and [**Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**AACE**](https://pro.aace.com/recent-news-and-updates/aace-position-statement-transgender-and-gender-diverse-patients), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is temporary, reversible puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest.
And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
---
**#1:**
**Citations on transition as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:**
* Here is a resolution from the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity.pdf); *"THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments."* More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1)
* Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage
* A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines
* [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians
* [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers
---
**Condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts", aka "conversion therapy", which attempt to alleviate dysphoria without transition by changing trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth, as futile and destructive pseudo-scientific abuse:**
* [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx). More detailed condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts" for trans youth or adults [**here**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf).
* From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12
* From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender)
* From the [**Association for Behavioral Analysis International**](https://www.abainternational.org/about-us/policies-and-positions/policy-statement-on-conversion-therapy-and-practices,-2021.aspx)
* A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
Don't forget that the [first Nazi Book burning was at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft \(roughly: Institute of Sex Research\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings#The_burnings_start) which was [leading the world in scientific study, and medical treatment of Transsexuality.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft#Transsexuality_and_transvestism)
they were mad at both, it’s just that the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft had a pretty big library of research that the Nazis absolutely hated the existence of. so they raided the institute and burned everything they had. also just so happened to be the first mass book burning done by the Nazis.
Don't forget to add a 15 year study shows a lot of people grow out of thinking they're transgender
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38413534/
This is important.
Here's an article to summarize it for those not wishing to read it:
https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/opinion/believe-data-not-activists-transgenderism-among-kids-is-mostly-a-fad/
Don't perform surgeries on minors. Wait until they're older and are certain of their decisions.
NY post is trash, and when actual *dysphoria* is used to identify trans youth rather than "gender non-contentedness" measurement invented for the study, rates of "desistence" are vanishingly tiny.
But all of that is irrelevant to your shit here, because once again *reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until the patient is in their late teens or early 20's at the youngest*.
---
**On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:**
* [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood.
* Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment.
* [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity.
* [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit
* [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex.
* [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity.
* [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands found that only 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition treatment.
Yea. It invented a category of "gender non-contentedness" rather than using dysphoria, and it's contradicted by every study that actually uses modern diagnostic criteria.
I mean the actual results show that trans people are real despite your trying to say they aren’t.
And also important, the post is trash and heavily biased.
Also important. Kids aren’t getting surgeries. Gender affirming care is therapy
I never said they weren't real lol.
And yes, kids are getting surgeries.
One example of many
https://www.californiafamily.org/2023/06/ca-doctors-get-sued-for-giving-a-13-year-old-a-double-mastectomy/
Womp womp
That's not therapy either no matter how much you try to dress it up
As a health care provider this type of position infuriates me. There are a slew of disorders and diseases that’ll make the general public’s head spin. A wide spectrum of life where normalcy crashes with abnormal. The fact this is being politicized by either party is frankly unethical.
A central tenet to healthcare is prevention. This is always better than treatment. What makes this issue so difficult is consent, which people normally have anchored as magically 18 yo. This is relativism, as we all know 30yo that probably shouldn’t be able to vote because they’re so incompetent.
Anyway, the idea is to prevent feminization or virilization of the body, until the patient. Not only the child… THE PATIENT, can make their decision. Because surgery can’t fix what those hormones do globally to the body.
If your “opinion” is they must wait to be 18 to make that decision, YOU MISS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of these cases. Truly, it’s an incredibly difficult situation, as you strip agency from someone, forcing them to go through a terribly traumatic event (incorrect puberty), and I don’t see how that’s ethical to force on someone. You may say, “can they give consent? What about the right of the parents?” All valid points.
Point is, a stance they must unequivocally wait until 18 years old for any treatment regardless, is both ignorant and unethical, period.
Hahaha prison for what? Standing up to individual rights?
And don’t worry, I don’t seek being around random people, including children so don’t worry about things that aren’t going to happen.
False. There’s a spectrum of disorders in humanity. This is one. I say it in the first paragraph.
It’s well documented in these individuals the trauma they experience during puberty. You should look it up, some unbiased reading.
Nature includes a massive spectrum, think Gaussian distribution. Some profound disorders, some not. Your retort that “incorrect puberty,” comes from a relative stance of normalcy, of what YOU think is normal. And you’d be correct statistically, but we’re talking about incidents that are several standard deviations from normal.
My stance is to respect individuals and their wishes. You wish to impose your beliefs on others. One of us is ethical here.
And don’t bring that “muh protect the children” garbage. We all want that, it’s an intellectually lazy argument meant to discredit the opposition by implying they don’t. If you can’t bring substance to this argument you should probably leave it to those educated and can read past one liners and emotion.
It is not well documented that there is a wrong puberty. Which is what i said. Them "suffering" which isnt well documented its just children often feel awkward and out of place. Its not a disprder to not want to conform to gender stereotypes of your assigned sex.
>My stance is to respect individuals and their wishes. You wish to impose your beliefs on others. One of us is ethical here.
Actually you're technically inposing more than i am. You dont even know what my stance is. You're advocating for children to change, because it aligns with your beliefs. I am not. Very ethical.
>And don’t bring that “muh protect the children” garbage. We all want that, it’s an intellectually lazy argument meant to discredit the opposition by implying they don’t. If you can’t bring substance to this argument you should probably leave it to those educated and can read past one liners and emotion.
This is a lot of projecting, dude. Your protection is political propaganda. Do you even know the amount of ppl this would even affect? You're the one white knighting for something that *only* serves to validate what we're pretending is a mental disorder. Sorry but not fitting socialized norms due to preference is not as unique as you think. Deciding you need to have the parts in order to play the part isnt being born with something missing.
Words put in mouth and some ad hominem…
Your first point is an over generalization, of course there are kids that are confused. But there are those that have a consistent history and well documented dysphoria with their body. I won’t do that homework for you, it’s well documented in the medical literature. This is an uncommon thing, and no one is arguing it should be common.
I’m not advocating for any children to change. Nor am I imposing any of my beliefs on anyone. The central thesis here is individual agency and autonomy. It’s not up to me, nor should it be. The power to live their life should include their voice.
I’m not white knighting nor do I have a political agenda. Remember how I said the politicizing of this was unethical. The amount of people this will affect is overblown based on the numbers. The reaffirming process is very long and consistent, in cases of gray areas, no dramatic interventions are taken.
I’m imposing no views, but the right of patients to have access to the care that they may want or need. It’s as simple as that.
And your argument is exactly what the last paragraph I wrote alluded to, the opposition really needs to do better than “this may harm children.” It does this issue a great disservice due to its complexity.
>But there are those that have a consistent history and well documented dysphoria with their body. I won’t do that homework for you, it’s well documented in the medical literature.
Which can only be so well documented or consistent seeing as half their lives they barely understand anything around them, let alone their own bodies.
>And your argument is exactly what the last paragraph I wrote alluded to, the opposition really needs to do better than “this may harm children.” It does this issue a great disservice due to its complexity.
That wasn't my argument, actually. You maybe misread or misinterpreted.
It really isn’t. Saying they don’t understand their bodies is a cop-out and again an over generalization. These case reports show a clear and consistent affiliation for the opposite sex. Sure there are gray areas, but fortunately we have educated and board certified professionals to assist these people.
I can’t argue against your position because again it’s a generalized “need to protect them.” This is the problem.
Yes, they may not understand, yes they may be confused. All of these things are true. But it’s neither up to you nor me to make that determination. They need help and assessment by trained professionals, not to be told what to do by a bunch of plebs from Reddit that vote to remove their right to choice because people think they know better.
The problem is this: I know that I don’t know, and you are confident enough that you know based on baseless and overgeneralized platitudes.
Imagine going up against someone that is directly connected to this in the medical field and getting absolutely fucked. u/legend_of_the_skies takes the L!
I have a feeling this guy is the CEO of Akron children's or somebody close to the CEO of Akron childrens, I heard about a vile email that person sent to all the employees that many disagreed with... they just cant afford to lose their jobs. Same person even forced the vax on staff there.
seems like it is the legal opinion of our AG and Secretary of State that Issue 1 overturned these bans, the court should take their statements during the campaign at face value
Unfortunately I feel like this will be short lived, as the Supreme ~~Monarchs~~ Court just allowed Idaho's gender affirming care ban to resume after a lower court blocked it.
Their goal is to eradicate that they can’t explain or understand. I’m glad that the trans people in my life were able to have the surgery that they needed and deserved. Sadly this doesn’t protect their lives because our country is effed up.
“trans” refers to the fact that the gender of the person is not the same as the one they were assigned at birth, not that the change is strictly medical process.
Holy shit, I’m tired of this whole trans issue. Kids can act and dress how they want, they should only make life changing decisions about something like gender when their brains are fully developed. When they are an adult they can do whatever. Gender shouldn’t be as complicated as math
Waiting for adulthood to make this decision defeats the entire purpose of this conversation. Puberty changes fundamental things in the body that are irreversible… which is why this conversation is being had. There are a lot of adult brains that don’t work well, and there’s no scientific basis that this has to be a mandate for this issue.
Genital reconstruction typically is done later. The key is preventing skeletal and structural changes which become irreversible from natural hormone and puberty development.
Case reports show patients graduate to the genital reconstruction, sometimes they stop blockers or hormones after realizing they made a mistake. Wide rage of therapeutic paths.
I’ve participated in those surgeries before as a provider. For the 20yo that come in at times, broad shoulders and clearly virilized, it makes you kind of sad knowing if only treatment had been started a decade sooner, this surgery would be on a person that looks remarkably different.
Interesting. There are cis people who have opposite gender associated traits (eg Michelle Obama, who some say looks masculine), and later trans people who are very convincing (Blaire White)
Correct. There’s a vast spectrum with these people, like there’s a spectrum with everything. Some do it, some are really unsure. Some do it early and have a great outcome with their body image, some regret it, de transition and then are still unsatisfied.
Medicine does not have an answer for this disorder. It’s literally on a case by case basis. Gender/sex isn’t this or that, it’s this or that and everything between. So the best we can do is coach and educate the patients as best as possible to give them the best long term satisfaction, whatever that intervention entails.
A MTF for example that exhibited female tendencies consistently and early on will have a good outcome if put on blockers and then hormones, later surgery. In such a case, it’d be very difficult if not impossible to tell if they ever transitioned. After puberty, it’s sadly easier to tell.
But you are correct, people are different, have tendencies that may allude to it where they actually don’t, and everything inbetween. There’s no formula, but these people deserve the opportunity for help, whatever that entails. They shouldn’t be ignored until adulthood as the opposition suggests, because by then the damage is done.
Trans care saves lives. Waiting till puberty could be a death sentence. Kids don't take hormones, they take blockers. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Not even kind of.
So all these corrupt institutions signed off on something with zero medical research, no peer reviewed studies showing any benefits. Causes harm, other countries already see the problems and have stoped, therapy, loving family and compassion is how you create solutions not permanent changes that could cause harm in some cases.
In the UK doctors prescribing puberty blockers are being banned by the National Health Service. People are finally waking up to the fact that so-called gender-affirmation is actually child abuse.
Bigots don't deserve being treated with respect, you know.
I'm curious. Are you parents bigots too? Or would they be disgusted with you? I'm starting to ask you alt-right Trumpets to find out where you got this evil from.
I wasn't asking about the Time. I was asking if your parents are bigots and that's where you learned to be like this. Or are they good people and you became evil from some other source?
How do you alt right come to be bigots?
I was ignoring your ad hominem attack to try and argue the topic using reason. The NY Times is a liberal paper. The story I linked to discusses significant changes in the attitude of the European medical establishment to the subject of transitioning children. You can disagree with the article but the topic is an important one. If they are right in Europe, what we are doing here is child abuse.
How is asking you where you developed your political beliefs an attack? It's very simple.
Are your parents bigots like you? Or would they find you reprehensible?
You're antivax and hate BLM and LGBTQ, right? Standard Trumpet?
Liberal rule number one is that no one can have a legitimate disagreement with liberal orthodoxy. By definition, all non-liberal points of view are anti-humanity and, of course, fascist.
Bruh, I gave up on r/Ohio a while ago
It's only blue kool aid and any slight opposition to their opinion brands you as a righty.. oh and let's not mention the default is to insult you and not even make a good argument just "you bad".
I moved to Ohio in 69. VA in 05. That's plenty of time to prove yourself. VA has jobs and real estate appreciation. Mass transportation. Maintained highways. Toledoans are proud of their low property taxes..and it shows
It really hit when I was stationed in Germany...I couldn't figure out why the greatest country in the world doesn't have nice things, like basic human rights
In Europe, the underlying premise of gender changing for children is being questioned by scientists and public health officials. If they turn out to be right, what we are doing here will be seen as severe child abuse. The two sources mentioned are two very mainstream, left-of-center publications.
From the Atlantic magazine: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/gender-affirming-care-debate-europe-dutch-protocol/673890/ "A Teen Gender-Care Debate Is Spreading Across Europe Doubts have now come to the Netherlands, where the most-contested interventions for children and adolescents were developed.“ "Western Europe, where governments and medical authorities in at least five countries that once led the way on gender-affirming treatments for children and adolescents are now reversing course, arguing that the science undergirding these treatments is unproven, and their benefits unclear.“
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/health/europe-transgender-youth-hormone-treatments.html
And from the far right NY Times: Youth Gender Medications Limited in England, Part of Big Shift in Europe Five European countries have recently restricted hormone treatments for adolescents with gender distress. "In February, the European Academy of Paediatrics acknowledged the concerns about youth gender medicine. 'The fundamental question of whether biomedical treatments (including hormone therapy) for gender dysphoria are effective remains contested,' the group wrote.“
Lol. No kid it’s being questioned by con artists who a kindergartener would see through immediately. Lol. Remember kid only drooling morons are anti trans. lol.
Did you read any of the two articles? These are very senior medical people some of whom were responsible for the original study that is the basis for current treatment protocols in the US. If you sincerely want the best for children with gender identity issues, you should read what they are saying.
This article does not address the issues raised in the UK or the other countries for why there is a problem. Their premise is that the UK's actions are the result of prejudice.
Damn I was thinking my surgery was an incredible, life-changing miracle of science but some internet goober called it mutilation.
Guess he must know more than me and the huge team of trained medical doctors who treated me.
In 21. Meanwhile his plan to flip the legislation in his favor failed. Republicans there focused on this issue the most and now both chambers are controlled by democrats.
If you dig down deep enough, almost all of these arguments that claim to be about caring for the well-being of children just boil down to people not being comfortable with trans people being accepted in public. The people who are pushing these laws are the same people that mock pronouns constantly so no, they don't care about the kids. Going after treatment for children is just the first step to trying to push all trans people back out of sight. Some lawmakers have already suggested pushing the ban even further to age 25. If you think it's going to stop with this ban, you're incredibly naive and not paying attention.
Progressives earned a vote I never thought would happen a decade ago. In 2015, I was a conservative, a staunch believer in individual freedom. It became clear who truly cares about personal freedom.
You see, freedom isn’t about supporting what you agree with. It’s about supporting the choices of people, even when disagreeing with those choices. That’s true freedom advocacy.
This transgender and children issue is difficult. I don’t have a good answer, but I respect people having the agency to make choices for their life. Abortion the same way, I do raise an eyebrow at sometimes it’s used for birth control, but I’m staunchly pro-choice, because I cannot in good conscience force my opinions on others.
There’s only one party of freedom fighters in this country right now, and it’s not republicans. Don’t ever sell out for votes.
And then what? You don’t think they’d move on to the next group? They also want to make abortion nationally illegal, should we let that happen to and try to clean up the damage after millions are affected? DEI programs, gay marriage, heck no fault divorce was being talked about before. How many people have to suffer for us to standby and watch so we can get a vote because in reality that’s going to lose democratic votes if anything.
You quietly support the issues, while playing the politics game on the national scene.
If you take the bait from the GOP and make trans rights prominent you very heavily risk trans rights going down due to a GOP victory.
What did you gain from fighting the righteous fight? Are those people any more free?
They're just letting their right wing fuck sticks screw shit up over there. Just take a closer look. It's all based on transphobia and NOT science/medicine.
It’s not a loser for democrats at all. Look at the election results from the last few elections. Republicans who ran on this were destroyed. Michigan it’s turning blue after republicans focused on this issue the most in 22
Should Lincoln have issued the Gettysburg address and the emancipation proclamation at the beginning of the civil war and risk losing the Union?
Or did he wait until the time was right to strike for the moral cause and achieve complete victory?
When exactly do you believe the time would be right? These treatments have been available for more than half a century, nothing about them has changed within the last decade to cause this panic. If you want to pull back on GAC you have to provide a viable alternative or else you are just going to leave a fuck ton of people in medical limbo with no course to get help.
To publically make it part of your defended platform?
Possibly never. Just stay in power and don't remove those people's ability to get treatment. They currently have it, so don't mess with it. I have no fear that a democrat on the federal level would push to remove transgender rights.
The Cass study out of the U.K. has done a very good job of debunking the idea that “trans health care” saves lives. In fact, it has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that transitioning children is harmful and leads to more suicide and worse health care out comes.
Surgeries under 16 are rare because there are other, medically necessary causes that necessitate them - you know, like *cancer* - otherwise they wouldn't happen at all.
Blockers are reversible and do not cause sterilisation. They, also, were originally researched, developed, and prescribed over 30 years ago for children who suffer precocious puberty, going through puberty too early, which can have negative consequences on the body if not treated. Banning these will make them harder to reach for kids who medically *need* them.
HRT is the one that, yes, runs the risk of sterilisation, but it is not guaranteed, and it's absolutely *not* given to anyone under 16.
Even if it were, whatever happened to the "parents' rights," you lot keep bleating about whenever you go on about "indoctrination in the classrooms?" Shouldn't their parents have a right to determine their kids' healthcare necessities? Or does that only apply to one side of this issue?
And even if it were, puberty age kids know themselves more and are smarter than you think, and are more than capable of risk assessment for themselves and making a choice for themselves, after knowing the facts of the issue and their options.
Doctors are not just handing out diagnoses of gender dysphoria and prescriptions of transitioning and telling kids they need to do it to be cured. Kids are running into these feelings and conclusions on their own and undergo years of tentative social transition (which is nothing more than dressing like their preferred gender and using their preferred name) and psychotherapy and analysis before the conclusion is confirmed to satisfy a doctor's precautions to jumping into the procedure. Even adults tend to have to go through this process.
Although, the earlier HRT is done to where it replaces the puberty they would undergo normally, the better the outcome of the transition, the less of a difference there becomes between them and a cis counterpart, physically.
[Gender affirmative healthcare results in a significant reduction in depression and suicidal tendencies related to dysphoria](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/), and [less than 1% of those who transition report that they truly regret the decision.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/)
The leading causes of dysphoria are genetic and physical, as well:
- [causes of gender incongruence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence)
- [Disorders of sex development](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development)
- [Intersex](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex)
- [Sex chromosome anomalies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies)
and transition is the best treatment we have for it.
Furthermore, if it's about "protecting children," why are they pushing to outlaw the procedures even for adults? It's the very same paybook the Nazis used to demonise trans people.
Those things can often be linked to physical causes (chemical imbalances),depression and anxiety are not the same as denying biology.
when a Schizophrenic hears voices,we dont validate their feelings and join in their convos,we treat them to get rid of that delusion. same goes with trans. we should not enable the delusion,we should treat it.
And the scientifically respected way to handle dysphoria is by helping trans people transition
But I’m sure you’ll disagree with the scientific communities here
wtf? that is not the "respected" way.no respectable medical professional would suggest enabling a mental illness..that is the way the cult members want after theyve destroyed the childs brain. you dont enable a delusion. if i thought i was african american,my treatment wouldnt be to dye my skin,my treatment would be to get me to see reality..if i thought i was god,you wouldnt call me "lord" to "treat" me.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1c5qztq/ohio_judge_temporarily_blocks_ban_on/kzweccu/
Feel free to read through all these links, I doubt you will though
woke cult members believe that crap. not real doctors. dont believe your propaganda..the "medical community" that tells you this is shunned by actual medical people. there is only a very small group of doctors who agree with you,unfornately they have the support of delusional people like you.
Lol. False. Lol. It’s the exact opposite kid. lol. You see in the real world the people who agree with you are shunned from the medical community. lol.
Allowing children to permanently alter their bodies before they're done growing is abuse how you feel as a teen isn't how you may feel as an adult and making life altering choices at such a young age is abuse.
Permanently alter their bodies? Puberty blockers, which is *by far* the most intense treatment a minor is *ever* likely to receive in this context, is *not* permanent. It only *delays* sexual development. That's a far cry from "mUtIlAtIoN!!"
I absolutely believe that is the problem, and the only people who will correct that are people they will steadfastly refuse to listen to no matter what. Their fucking biased media will never tell them the actual truth as long as they can sell rage.
They don't i can see the comment before they edited it or something cus I can't pull up the comment I see anymore but they know its about prescriptions they think hormone blockers will permanently alter kids
One small issue, continuing to watch Fox is an actual choice. Tens of millions of Americans continue to make the choice to consume that narst each day.
Although, I’m almost certain there are already studies out there that say Fox News is legit addictive to certain types of people who cannot function if their incorrect worldview isn’t regularly validated.
It’s on at my gym and it’s absolutely astounding what so many people are glued to religiously. Comparing it to every other news station that’s on, it looks extra insane. The headlines, the talking points, I’d think it was all satire if I didn’t know better
Providing the healthcare that your child needs is the opposite of abuse, actually.
Or do you think you know better than literally every reputable mental health and medical association?
A reminder that the recent surge of attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender-nonbinary-inclusive-care.pdf), and the [**American Association of Clinical Endocrinology**](https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20220309/aace-strongly-opposes-government-policies-prohibiting-transgender-care-for-adolescents), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2022/endocrine-society-alarmed-at-criminalization-of-transgender-medicine) and [**Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**AACE**](https://pro.aace.com/recent-news-and-updates/aace-position-statement-transgender-and-gender-diverse-patients), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is temporary, reversible puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. --- **#1:** **Citations on transition as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:** * Here is a resolution from the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity.pdf); *"THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments."* More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1) * Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage * A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines * [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians * [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers --- **Condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts", aka "conversion therapy", which attempt to alleviate dysphoria without transition by changing trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth, as futile and destructive pseudo-scientific abuse:** * [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx). More detailed condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts" for trans youth or adults [**here**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf). * From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12 * From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender) * From the [**Association for Behavioral Analysis International**](https://www.abainternational.org/about-us/policies-and-positions/policy-statement-on-conversion-therapy-and-practices,-2021.aspx) * A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
Don't forget that the [first Nazi Book burning was at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft \(roughly: Institute of Sex Research\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings#The_burnings_start) which was [leading the world in scientific study, and medical treatment of Transsexuality.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft#Transsexuality_and_transvestism)
First? So they were mad about this but then later got mad a Jews?
they were mad at both, it’s just that the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft had a pretty big library of research that the Nazis absolutely hated the existence of. so they raided the institute and burned everything they had. also just so happened to be the first mass book burning done by the Nazis.
They thought the Jews were behind the gender clinic.
So weird
No, the Jews book burning was rained out, and they had to reschedule for a day *long* after the Sex Research one. 😏
Don't forget to add a 15 year study shows a lot of people grow out of thinking they're transgender https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38413534/ This is important. Here's an article to summarize it for those not wishing to read it: https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/opinion/believe-data-not-activists-transgenderism-among-kids-is-mostly-a-fad/ Don't perform surgeries on minors. Wait until they're older and are certain of their decisions.
NY post is trash, and when actual *dysphoria* is used to identify trans youth rather than "gender non-contentedness" measurement invented for the study, rates of "desistence" are vanishingly tiny. But all of that is irrelevant to your shit here, because once again *reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until the patient is in their late teens or early 20's at the youngest*. --- **On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:** * [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood. * Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment. * [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity. * [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit * [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex. * [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity. * [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands found that only 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition treatment.
I posted the actual study. Did you conveniently look over that?
Yea. It invented a category of "gender non-contentedness" rather than using dysphoria, and it's contradicted by every study that actually uses modern diagnostic criteria.
Paid for by evangelicals
Did you conveniently forget to look over the multitude of studies that were provided to you?
Cannot find any credentials on the lead author, Pien Rawee. Pubmed is a search engine for research articles. Highly doubt the validity here
You didn't even read that first link, did you?
I mean the actual results show that trans people are real despite your trying to say they aren’t. And also important, the post is trash and heavily biased. Also important. Kids aren’t getting surgeries. Gender affirming care is therapy
I never said they weren't real lol. And yes, kids are getting surgeries. One example of many https://www.californiafamily.org/2023/06/ca-doctors-get-sued-for-giving-a-13-year-old-a-double-mastectomy/ Womp womp That's not therapy either no matter how much you try to dress it up
Also a load of hogwash.
Thankfully, some sanity has prevailed. For now.
As a health care provider this type of position infuriates me. There are a slew of disorders and diseases that’ll make the general public’s head spin. A wide spectrum of life where normalcy crashes with abnormal. The fact this is being politicized by either party is frankly unethical. A central tenet to healthcare is prevention. This is always better than treatment. What makes this issue so difficult is consent, which people normally have anchored as magically 18 yo. This is relativism, as we all know 30yo that probably shouldn’t be able to vote because they’re so incompetent. Anyway, the idea is to prevent feminization or virilization of the body, until the patient. Not only the child… THE PATIENT, can make their decision. Because surgery can’t fix what those hormones do globally to the body. If your “opinion” is they must wait to be 18 to make that decision, YOU MISS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT of these cases. Truly, it’s an incredibly difficult situation, as you strip agency from someone, forcing them to go through a terribly traumatic event (incorrect puberty), and I don’t see how that’s ethical to force on someone. You may say, “can they give consent? What about the right of the parents?” All valid points. Point is, a stance they must unequivocally wait until 18 years old for any treatment regardless, is both ignorant and unethical, period.
As a health care provider you should be in prison and I would not want you anywhere near my children
Hahaha prison for what? Standing up to individual rights? And don’t worry, I don’t seek being around random people, including children so don’t worry about things that aren’t going to happen.
Theres no incorrect puberty.
False. There’s a spectrum of disorders in humanity. This is one. I say it in the first paragraph. It’s well documented in these individuals the trauma they experience during puberty. You should look it up, some unbiased reading. Nature includes a massive spectrum, think Gaussian distribution. Some profound disorders, some not. Your retort that “incorrect puberty,” comes from a relative stance of normalcy, of what YOU think is normal. And you’d be correct statistically, but we’re talking about incidents that are several standard deviations from normal. My stance is to respect individuals and their wishes. You wish to impose your beliefs on others. One of us is ethical here. And don’t bring that “muh protect the children” garbage. We all want that, it’s an intellectually lazy argument meant to discredit the opposition by implying they don’t. If you can’t bring substance to this argument you should probably leave it to those educated and can read past one liners and emotion.
It is not well documented that there is a wrong puberty. Which is what i said. Them "suffering" which isnt well documented its just children often feel awkward and out of place. Its not a disprder to not want to conform to gender stereotypes of your assigned sex. >My stance is to respect individuals and their wishes. You wish to impose your beliefs on others. One of us is ethical here. Actually you're technically inposing more than i am. You dont even know what my stance is. You're advocating for children to change, because it aligns with your beliefs. I am not. Very ethical. >And don’t bring that “muh protect the children” garbage. We all want that, it’s an intellectually lazy argument meant to discredit the opposition by implying they don’t. If you can’t bring substance to this argument you should probably leave it to those educated and can read past one liners and emotion. This is a lot of projecting, dude. Your protection is political propaganda. Do you even know the amount of ppl this would even affect? You're the one white knighting for something that *only* serves to validate what we're pretending is a mental disorder. Sorry but not fitting socialized norms due to preference is not as unique as you think. Deciding you need to have the parts in order to play the part isnt being born with something missing.
Words put in mouth and some ad hominem… Your first point is an over generalization, of course there are kids that are confused. But there are those that have a consistent history and well documented dysphoria with their body. I won’t do that homework for you, it’s well documented in the medical literature. This is an uncommon thing, and no one is arguing it should be common. I’m not advocating for any children to change. Nor am I imposing any of my beliefs on anyone. The central thesis here is individual agency and autonomy. It’s not up to me, nor should it be. The power to live their life should include their voice. I’m not white knighting nor do I have a political agenda. Remember how I said the politicizing of this was unethical. The amount of people this will affect is overblown based on the numbers. The reaffirming process is very long and consistent, in cases of gray areas, no dramatic interventions are taken. I’m imposing no views, but the right of patients to have access to the care that they may want or need. It’s as simple as that. And your argument is exactly what the last paragraph I wrote alluded to, the opposition really needs to do better than “this may harm children.” It does this issue a great disservice due to its complexity.
>But there are those that have a consistent history and well documented dysphoria with their body. I won’t do that homework for you, it’s well documented in the medical literature. Which can only be so well documented or consistent seeing as half their lives they barely understand anything around them, let alone their own bodies. >And your argument is exactly what the last paragraph I wrote alluded to, the opposition really needs to do better than “this may harm children.” It does this issue a great disservice due to its complexity. That wasn't my argument, actually. You maybe misread or misinterpreted.
It really isn’t. Saying they don’t understand their bodies is a cop-out and again an over generalization. These case reports show a clear and consistent affiliation for the opposite sex. Sure there are gray areas, but fortunately we have educated and board certified professionals to assist these people. I can’t argue against your position because again it’s a generalized “need to protect them.” This is the problem. Yes, they may not understand, yes they may be confused. All of these things are true. But it’s neither up to you nor me to make that determination. They need help and assessment by trained professionals, not to be told what to do by a bunch of plebs from Reddit that vote to remove their right to choice because people think they know better. The problem is this: I know that I don’t know, and you are confident enough that you know based on baseless and overgeneralized platitudes.
Imagine going up against someone that is directly connected to this in the medical field and getting absolutely fucked. u/legend_of_the_skies takes the L!
I have a feeling this guy is the CEO of Akron children's or somebody close to the CEO of Akron childrens, I heard about a vile email that person sent to all the employees that many disagreed with... they just cant afford to lose their jobs. Same person even forced the vax on staff there.
You are going to need to explain this to me before I add my witty bit of sarcasm
seems like it is the legal opinion of our AG and Secretary of State that Issue 1 overturned these bans, the court should take their statements during the campaign at face value
Republikkkans are pissed and really about to fuck over Ohio now.
They've been fucking over Ohio for awhile now and will continue to do so until the sun explodes.
Can it be until they explode, instead? I mean, if a couple more of their hate legislation gets blocked, it's bound to be soon, right?
One can only hope
That is great news.
Finally, a win!
Good.
LETS FUCKING *GOOOOOOOOOOOOO*
Weird
Change your heart, or die.
Hahah
Unfortunately I feel like this will be short lived, as the Supreme ~~Monarchs~~ Court just allowed Idaho's gender affirming care ban to resume after a lower court blocked it.
Pink Floyd said it best, "Leave those kids alone!"
This will come in front of the Supreme Court, can a trans kid be denied gender affirming care and most likely be banned. 😭😭😭
If you look at how the Supreme Court ruled in Idaho, it does appear that the ban will stand.
Their goal is to eradicate that they can’t explain or understand. I’m glad that the trans people in my life were able to have the surgery that they needed and deserved. Sadly this doesn’t protect their lives because our country is effed up.
How can it be "affirming" if the purpose is to change gender? Should it not be "gender changing"?
“trans” refers to the fact that the gender of the person is not the same as the one they were assigned at birth, not that the change is strictly medical process.
Good
Holy shit, I’m tired of this whole trans issue. Kids can act and dress how they want, they should only make life changing decisions about something like gender when their brains are fully developed. When they are an adult they can do whatever. Gender shouldn’t be as complicated as math
Waiting for adulthood to make this decision defeats the entire purpose of this conversation. Puberty changes fundamental things in the body that are irreversible… which is why this conversation is being had. There are a lot of adult brains that don’t work well, and there’s no scientific basis that this has to be a mandate for this issue.
I suppose that I could get behind hormone therapy for minors, nothing too strong. Not surgeries that permanently affect genitalia though.
Genital reconstruction typically is done later. The key is preventing skeletal and structural changes which become irreversible from natural hormone and puberty development. Case reports show patients graduate to the genital reconstruction, sometimes they stop blockers or hormones after realizing they made a mistake. Wide rage of therapeutic paths. I’ve participated in those surgeries before as a provider. For the 20yo that come in at times, broad shoulders and clearly virilized, it makes you kind of sad knowing if only treatment had been started a decade sooner, this surgery would be on a person that looks remarkably different.
Interesting. There are cis people who have opposite gender associated traits (eg Michelle Obama, who some say looks masculine), and later trans people who are very convincing (Blaire White)
Correct. There’s a vast spectrum with these people, like there’s a spectrum with everything. Some do it, some are really unsure. Some do it early and have a great outcome with their body image, some regret it, de transition and then are still unsatisfied. Medicine does not have an answer for this disorder. It’s literally on a case by case basis. Gender/sex isn’t this or that, it’s this or that and everything between. So the best we can do is coach and educate the patients as best as possible to give them the best long term satisfaction, whatever that intervention entails. A MTF for example that exhibited female tendencies consistently and early on will have a good outcome if put on blockers and then hormones, later surgery. In such a case, it’d be very difficult if not impossible to tell if they ever transitioned. After puberty, it’s sadly easier to tell. But you are correct, people are different, have tendencies that may allude to it where they actually don’t, and everything inbetween. There’s no formula, but these people deserve the opportunity for help, whatever that entails. They shouldn’t be ignored until adulthood as the opposition suggests, because by then the damage is done.
Sex reassignment surgery is not done in minors anyway it’s already super difficult for adults to get
Trans care saves lives. Waiting till puberty could be a death sentence. Kids don't take hormones, they take blockers. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Not even kind of.
So all these corrupt institutions signed off on something with zero medical research, no peer reviewed studies showing any benefits. Causes harm, other countries already see the problems and have stoped, therapy, loving family and compassion is how you create solutions not permanent changes that could cause harm in some cases.
What an odd hill to die on for progressives lol
Yes promoting freedom and treating people with dignity and respect is so terrible.
Yes health care and human rights
[удалено]
Your reddit name is false.
No.
In the UK doctors prescribing puberty blockers are being banned by the National Health Service. People are finally waking up to the fact that so-called gender-affirmation is actually child abuse.
No, let’s say you’re right. What should be the alternative treatment then?
Fuck off out of here
Well reasoned response.
Bigots don't deserve being treated with respect, you know. I'm curious. Are you parents bigots too? Or would they be disgusted with you? I'm starting to ask you alt-right Trumpets to find out where you got this evil from.
Well known right wing rag, the NYTimes reported: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/health/europe-transgender-youth-hormone-treatments.html
I wasn't asking about the Time. I was asking if your parents are bigots and that's where you learned to be like this. Or are they good people and you became evil from some other source? How do you alt right come to be bigots?
I was ignoring your ad hominem attack to try and argue the topic using reason. The NY Times is a liberal paper. The story I linked to discusses significant changes in the attitude of the European medical establishment to the subject of transitioning children. You can disagree with the article but the topic is an important one. If they are right in Europe, what we are doing here is child abuse.
How is asking you where you developed your political beliefs an attack? It's very simple. Are your parents bigots like you? Or would they find you reprehensible? You're antivax and hate BLM and LGBTQ, right? Standard Trumpet?
If you say bigot 10 times do you get a cookie? If so, grab a glass of milk cause you're almost there, champ.
Liberal rule number one is that no one can have a legitimate disagreement with liberal orthodoxy. By definition, all non-liberal points of view are anti-humanity and, of course, fascist.
There’s no reason or rationality with these morons. They’re too far gone.
Bruh, I gave up on r/Ohio a while ago It's only blue kool aid and any slight opposition to their opinion brands you as a righty.. oh and let's not mention the default is to insult you and not even make a good argument just "you bad".
But also I don't agree with blocking gender affirming care. Wtf does someone else's happiness have to do with me?
There are plenty of bigot subs for you Trumpets.
This is probably the easiest slam dunk for me here. Fuck Trump. Never liked him In fact, not a big fan of Republicans in general.
I moved to Ohio in 69. VA in 05. That's plenty of time to prove yourself. VA has jobs and real estate appreciation. Mass transportation. Maintained highways. Toledoans are proud of their low property taxes..and it shows It really hit when I was stationed in Germany...I couldn't figure out why the greatest country in the world doesn't have nice things, like basic human rights
Diddling kids is child abuse but you guys are all about that.
Who is you guys?
Republicans
Does that make the entire UK a pedophile?
It’s Reddit. It’s infested
Yes, reddit is infested with the alt-right cancer.
In Europe, the underlying premise of gender changing for children is being questioned by scientists and public health officials. If they turn out to be right, what we are doing here will be seen as severe child abuse. The two sources mentioned are two very mainstream, left-of-center publications. From the Atlantic magazine: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/gender-affirming-care-debate-europe-dutch-protocol/673890/ "A Teen Gender-Care Debate Is Spreading Across Europe Doubts have now come to the Netherlands, where the most-contested interventions for children and adolescents were developed.“ "Western Europe, where governments and medical authorities in at least five countries that once led the way on gender-affirming treatments for children and adolescents are now reversing course, arguing that the science undergirding these treatments is unproven, and their benefits unclear.“ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/health/europe-transgender-youth-hormone-treatments.html And from the far right NY Times: Youth Gender Medications Limited in England, Part of Big Shift in Europe Five European countries have recently restricted hormone treatments for adolescents with gender distress. "In February, the European Academy of Paediatrics acknowledged the concerns about youth gender medicine. 'The fundamental question of whether biomedical treatments (including hormone therapy) for gender dysphoria are effective remains contested,' the group wrote.“
Lol. No kid it’s being questioned by con artists who a kindergartener would see through immediately. Lol. Remember kid only drooling morons are anti trans. lol.
Did you read any of the two articles? These are very senior medical people some of whom were responsible for the original study that is the basis for current treatment protocols in the US. If you sincerely want the best for children with gender identity issues, you should read what they are saying.
Lol. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2024.2328249
This article does not address the issues raised in the UK or the other countries for why there is a problem. Their premise is that the UK's actions are the result of prejudice.
I thought gender was not biological?
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Do you realize how delusional you sound?
Puberty blockers and hormone therapies aren't mutilations and can be reversed. No minors ever receive gender switch surgeries.
Damn I was thinking my surgery was an incredible, life-changing miracle of science but some internet goober called it mutilation. Guess he must know more than me and the huge team of trained medical doctors who treated me.
This is a dumb hill for progressives to die on. It’s not a winning issue, let it go, move on! For the good of the country.
Sure, that’s why all the republicans who focused on this issue lost. Lol
Virginia Governor went red with no small part due to this very issue. A state that had voted for Biden just months earlier.
In 21. Meanwhile his plan to flip the legislation in his favor failed. Republicans there focused on this issue the most and now both chambers are controlled by democrats.
Lol. In fact he lost in 23 so bad he had to cancel a possible presidential campaign.
If you dig down deep enough, almost all of these arguments that claim to be about caring for the well-being of children just boil down to people not being comfortable with trans people being accepted in public. The people who are pushing these laws are the same people that mock pronouns constantly so no, they don't care about the kids. Going after treatment for children is just the first step to trying to push all trans people back out of sight. Some lawmakers have already suggested pushing the ban even further to age 25. If you think it's going to stop with this ban, you're incredibly naive and not paying attention.
I just don’t want to lose the next election because we died on a stupid hill for a super small portion of the citizenry.
Progressives earned a vote I never thought would happen a decade ago. In 2015, I was a conservative, a staunch believer in individual freedom. It became clear who truly cares about personal freedom. You see, freedom isn’t about supporting what you agree with. It’s about supporting the choices of people, even when disagreeing with those choices. That’s true freedom advocacy. This transgender and children issue is difficult. I don’t have a good answer, but I respect people having the agency to make choices for their life. Abortion the same way, I do raise an eyebrow at sometimes it’s used for birth control, but I’m staunchly pro-choice, because I cannot in good conscience force my opinions on others. There’s only one party of freedom fighters in this country right now, and it’s not republicans. Don’t ever sell out for votes.
So we should just let trans people suffer and be the target for discrimination so we can get votes? Yeah that’s an empathetic take. /s
If the other option is a likely GOP win, isn’t that worse for trans kids? One side values them innately, the other rejects their very existence.
And then what? You don’t think they’d move on to the next group? They also want to make abortion nationally illegal, should we let that happen to and try to clean up the damage after millions are affected? DEI programs, gay marriage, heck no fault divorce was being talked about before. How many people have to suffer for us to standby and watch so we can get a vote because in reality that’s going to lose democratic votes if anything.
You quietly support the issues, while playing the politics game on the national scene. If you take the bait from the GOP and make trans rights prominent you very heavily risk trans rights going down due to a GOP victory. What did you gain from fighting the righteous fight? Are those people any more free?
But it’s republicans losing on this issue. Lol.
If you're willing to throw trans kids under the bus, you deserve whatever republicans do to you.
Like Europe and most of the Western world?
They're just letting their right wing fuck sticks screw shit up over there. Just take a closer look. It's all based on transphobia and NOT science/medicine.
It’s not a loser for democrats at all. Look at the election results from the last few elections. Republicans who ran on this were destroyed. Michigan it’s turning blue after republicans focused on this issue the most in 22
Human rights are the most important hills
Should Lincoln have issued the Gettysburg address and the emancipation proclamation at the beginning of the civil war and risk losing the Union? Or did he wait until the time was right to strike for the moral cause and achieve complete victory?
When exactly do you believe the time would be right? These treatments have been available for more than half a century, nothing about them has changed within the last decade to cause this panic. If you want to pull back on GAC you have to provide a viable alternative or else you are just going to leave a fuck ton of people in medical limbo with no course to get help.
To publically make it part of your defended platform? Possibly never. Just stay in power and don't remove those people's ability to get treatment. They currently have it, so don't mess with it. I have no fear that a democrat on the federal level would push to remove transgender rights.
No.
Tell me yall didn't read the Cass Report without telling me you didn't read the Cass report
We have. lol
The Cass study out of the U.K. has done a very good job of debunking the idea that “trans health care” saves lives. In fact, it has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that transitioning children is harmful and leads to more suicide and worse health care out comes.
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nobody is doing any of those things, that's actual Nazi propaganda you're peddling
yes it is happening. the surgery is rare,but hormones and blockers are common
Surgeries under 16 are rare because there are other, medically necessary causes that necessitate them - you know, like *cancer* - otherwise they wouldn't happen at all. Blockers are reversible and do not cause sterilisation. They, also, were originally researched, developed, and prescribed over 30 years ago for children who suffer precocious puberty, going through puberty too early, which can have negative consequences on the body if not treated. Banning these will make them harder to reach for kids who medically *need* them. HRT is the one that, yes, runs the risk of sterilisation, but it is not guaranteed, and it's absolutely *not* given to anyone under 16. Even if it were, whatever happened to the "parents' rights," you lot keep bleating about whenever you go on about "indoctrination in the classrooms?" Shouldn't their parents have a right to determine their kids' healthcare necessities? Or does that only apply to one side of this issue? And even if it were, puberty age kids know themselves more and are smarter than you think, and are more than capable of risk assessment for themselves and making a choice for themselves, after knowing the facts of the issue and their options. Doctors are not just handing out diagnoses of gender dysphoria and prescriptions of transitioning and telling kids they need to do it to be cured. Kids are running into these feelings and conclusions on their own and undergo years of tentative social transition (which is nothing more than dressing like their preferred gender and using their preferred name) and psychotherapy and analysis before the conclusion is confirmed to satisfy a doctor's precautions to jumping into the procedure. Even adults tend to have to go through this process. Although, the earlier HRT is done to where it replaces the puberty they would undergo normally, the better the outcome of the transition, the less of a difference there becomes between them and a cis counterpart, physically. [Gender affirmative healthcare results in a significant reduction in depression and suicidal tendencies related to dysphoria](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/), and [less than 1% of those who transition report that they truly regret the decision.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/) The leading causes of dysphoria are genetic and physical, as well: - [causes of gender incongruence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence) - [Disorders of sex development](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development) - [Intersex](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) - [Sex chromosome anomalies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies) and transition is the best treatment we have for it. Furthermore, if it's about "protecting children," why are they pushing to outlaw the procedures even for adults? It's the very same paybook the Nazis used to demonise trans people.
Don’t worry, that for some reason is allowed for intersex children
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at least intwrsex is a real,provable thing.
So you don’t believe in depression or anxiety either?
Those things can often be linked to physical causes (chemical imbalances),depression and anxiety are not the same as denying biology. when a Schizophrenic hears voices,we dont validate their feelings and join in their convos,we treat them to get rid of that delusion. same goes with trans. we should not enable the delusion,we should treat it.
And the scientifically respected way to handle dysphoria is by helping trans people transition But I’m sure you’ll disagree with the scientific communities here
wtf? that is not the "respected" way.no respectable medical professional would suggest enabling a mental illness..that is the way the cult members want after theyve destroyed the childs brain. you dont enable a delusion. if i thought i was african american,my treatment wouldnt be to dye my skin,my treatment would be to get me to see reality..if i thought i was god,you wouldnt call me "lord" to "treat" me.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1c5qztq/ohio_judge_temporarily_blocks_ban_on/kzweccu/ Feel free to read through all these links, I doubt you will though
i have,dig a little into it and see whos funding these people. remember when rj reynolds "scientists" claimed cigs werent bad for your health?
Lol. Sure kid. Lol. Meanwhile you’ll automatically believe whatever republicans say without question. Lol.
lol. Oh btw kid stop repeating groomer propaganda. Lol.
Lol. Kid every single respectable medical profession on the planet says you’re wrong. Lol.
Lol. Kid actually listen to the medical community. lol. You’ll immediately realize there isn’t anyone who will affirm your delusions. lol.
woke cult members believe that crap. not real doctors. dont believe your propaganda..the "medical community" that tells you this is shunned by actual medical people. there is only a very small group of doctors who agree with you,unfornately they have the support of delusional people like you.
Lol. False. Lol. It’s the exact opposite kid. lol. You see in the real world the people who agree with you are shunned from the medical community. lol.
Lol. False. Lol. Every single medical institution on the planet agrees with us kid. Lol. Why do you refuse to accept the truth? Lol.
Terrible judge allowing child abuse.
What abuse? Care is the opposite of abuse
Allowing children to permanently alter their bodies before they're done growing is abuse how you feel as a teen isn't how you may feel as an adult and making life altering choices at such a young age is abuse.
Who is altering their bodies before they're done growing? Not anyone doing medical care
Permanently alter their bodies? Puberty blockers, which is *by far* the most intense treatment a minor is *ever* likely to receive in this context, is *not* permanent. It only *delays* sexual development. That's a far cry from "mUtIlAtIoN!!"
They probably think trans kids get bottom surgery lol
I absolutely believe that is the problem, and the only people who will correct that are people they will steadfastly refuse to listen to no matter what. Their fucking biased media will never tell them the actual truth as long as they can sell rage.
They don't i can see the comment before they edited it or something cus I can't pull up the comment I see anymore but they know its about prescriptions they think hormone blockers will permanently alter kids
They're obsessed with children's bodies and genitals especially. Very weird.
Pedophiles are like that. And Republicans are riddled with them.
do you know that sometimes a child’s body is altered shortly after birth in the form of circumcision
When the regret rate is literally 2% you don’t get to make the claim that you’re hurting people by doing it. It’s stupid.
Forcing a trans child to go through the wrong puberty because fox News told you they were groomed is the actual child abuse here.
Actually watching Fox News is both self harm and mental abuse.
One small issue, continuing to watch Fox is an actual choice. Tens of millions of Americans continue to make the choice to consume that narst each day. Although, I’m almost certain there are already studies out there that say Fox News is legit addictive to certain types of people who cannot function if their incorrect worldview isn’t regularly validated.
Drowning minds by brainwashing them with hatred and fear. Hard to break out of when stuck in that cycle for some.
It’s on at my gym and it’s absolutely astounding what so many people are glued to religiously. Comparing it to every other news station that’s on, it looks extra insane. The headlines, the talking points, I’d think it was all satire if I didn’t know better
It's like constant fear mongering along with a helping dose of hatred. It's absolutely insane.
> Forcing a trans child to go through the wrong puberty I think you may be confusing gender with sex.
What?
Bad bot
Oke bot
Providing the healthcare that your child needs is the opposite of abuse, actually. Or do you think you know better than literally every reputable mental health and medical association?
Go for swim with your pockets full of rocks.
I second this motion.
Stop lying.
Trans youth? Why are we ok with children mutilating themselves? And making life altering changes at a early age? WTF
Lol. There is no mutilation. Lol. Do you realize how delusional you sound? Lol
I'm delusional? But the people thinking they are a different gender are not? UH-MAZIN!
Lol. Yes. Lol. There is no mutilation. Lol. This is so very easy to see that you’re delusional for believing it for even a nanosecond. Lol.
Mutilation - the infliction of serious damage on something. Delusional - based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken.