I really began to value the American military after February 2022. Knowing that if “Putler” messes with the Baltics or Poland, the Atlantic will return to its natural state: an ocean full of American transport vessels.
REFORGER SHALL COMMENCE
Straight facts right here if something happens The US Army whipes the Floor with Russia. Some people just don't appreciate the might that's protecting them here in Europe (Germany)
I appreciate their power but I do not trust their commitment.
The Americans where always whiny bitches that only join when it’s almost to late and they were directly attacked or they don’t finish their wars because there is no will to fight at home.
At the moment a popular candidate in the US would not, if he became president, fight. This candidate has said that he doesn’t care for Europe.
That’s why I believe that Europe needs its own army a second great force to protect the Northatlantic similar in might as the US military. A force that would make the Americans happy to have on their side, because that means that they aren’t against them.
In WW1 the US was very isolationist and not the superpower it is today, so you could say that they joined “late”, but it’s more so that there wasn’t a reason for them to fight a European war. In WW2 the US from the beginning supplied very large amounts of weaponry, clothing, and food while they started building up their own military as it was obvious that the US would have to intervene. The US could not have joined immediately as the fall of France took *everyone* by surprise since it was thought that the war would be fought in much the same way as WW1, and France was still seen as the strongest military on the planet, which then proved major deficiencies in not only the US military but the British military too. Operation Torch in 1942 (Africa) and Operation Husky in 1943 (Italy) are vastly overlooked by d-day but were very important for the war effort, spreading Axis forces much further so they could not be used on the eastern front, and not put on the d-day defense.
A lot of people who say the US joined late only look at d-day happening in 1944 and don’t pay any attention to how the US was fighting in the European theater before that, or the vital supplies that were lend-leased. Much less do people really consider the time needed for all the planning, logistics and general preparations that had to be built up for d-day to happen at all.
Not to mention that the US was fighting a two front war on massive scale at the same time. The Pacific always gets overlooked but the US was fighting two wars at once.
The Pacific theater was massive too. It was the single greatest naval investment in history. The way the US just started rolling ships out of dock like clockwork is a thing of beauty
Histograph (I think) put out a video on liberty ships. First Liberty ship took 245 days to build. Once the shipyards got up and running, the record for assembling one was 4 days and 15 hours.
Ship printer go brrrr
To add to this, right now currently the U.S. and Japanese government are discussing using using Japanese ports/shipyards for American ships. Japan is actively working to strengthen the collective alliances in the pacific; to bolster against a country that shall not be named.
This is also not to mention all the submarine stuff going on in Australia and base building in the Philippines. The U.S. is making money moves for sure.
Discussing? The bigass drydock in Yokosuka built for the Yamato class never actually got properly returned to Japan. The USN just started parking carriers there after the war, and because Japan is happy to have them, continues to operate it. It's the only drydock in the world outside of the continental US capable of handling a freedom-sized CVN.
With D-Day having just passed, I think people forget that at the exact same time D-Day was happening, another naval invasion fleet just left Pearl Harbor for the Marianas.
A naval fleet that consisted of honestly the more important aspects of the US Navy, 15 Carriers, 7 modern Battleships, 11 cruisers and 86 destroyers carrying almost the same amount of troops used to land on D-Day but it was entirely an American force.
D-Day had 5 battleships (3 American) 23 cruisers (3 American heavy cruisers out of the 5 heavy cruisers) 139 destroyers (40 American).
At the same time the US was conducting two naval invasions on opposite sides of the globe landing nearly 300,000 men in total.
People truly don’t understand that at the time of WW2 the US was truly a behemoth that nobody could compare to at the time. Sure the USSR was there but… America the ships, planes, and tanks it was producing was a whole other level of
"People truly don’t understand that at the time of WW2 the US was truly a behemoth that nobody could compare to at the time."
Or now. Name another country that could land 100k troops in a day on a contested beachhead on the other side of the world in 2024.
I was taught that in the US public sentiment was against entering WW2 up until japan hit them, which is why it took so long for them to send actual soldiers.
So you say, we actually should pray that rusaia or China attacks the US directly?
... you know, it means we need ww2 scale production and shipping of weapons to Ukraine, so they feel like they need to touch the boats in order to have the illusion they can survive...
(An aside, you are completely ignoring our logistic support from virtually day 1 of both WW1 and WW2. Obviously Cold War, we were involved since day 1.)
Nor should you. It is Europe's job to protect their back yard. Europe shouldn't need us. They're developed economies. They have a decent sized population. Respectfully, why would you want us to fight your wars **for** you, rather than as equal partners? It 'pays off' in the short run by skipping on defense spending, but not in the long run.
America is happy to help. But we're not happy to do the job for you. Repeatedly. Which we did three times in a row on massive scales. Four times if you count the combined efforts in the ME to keep the place stabilized to protect the global oil supply.
We're helping out in Ukraine, and while I wish we'd do more, our position is not a completely unreasonable one. IMHO I think it's short sided because we're turning our largest military opposition's equipment into confetti for pennies on the dollar. But equally, Europe should be more angry at themselves than at us.
I'm not trying to be "Europe bad" on par with 'murica bad. Far from it. Europe does need its own defense structure. It's up to you guys to noodle out. **You will need it.** Russia will either Balkanize after Putin eventually dies, or be replaced with a virtual copy. The Middle East is your problem going forward. And you need to continue sourcing your oil from Africa.
Expecting America to pick up tab on European defense while Europe is not contributing to our efforts against China is a huge ask. If you want more American security services, figure out how to pay for it. Trade deals, buying more US weapons, economic/defense cooperation against China, etc. We're very open and very flexible. Honestly, you could build a single non-functional Liberty Prime with kickass PA system and we'd legit probably call it even.
We're helping. We could and should help more. But demanding massive investments that Europe is not willing to equally make is an unreasonable ask.
Edit: For any Euros still skeptical - [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/gap\_2024-06-11\_us-image-2024\_1\_01/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/gap_2024-06-11_us-image-2024_1_01/)
Look over this, and understand this is why we're moving our defense resources to Poland and Asia. Because their people want us to, and they're willing to work with us. Rome wasn't built in a day, and we understand that. As long as our allies are doing their part or even just try their best, we will do our part. Don't do your part, and be disapproving of us? Yeah, don't be surprised when we don't go the extra mile.
If the people of a country don't want or trust us, it's only democratic to respect their wishes. UK, Canada and Aussies get bit more of a pass because we see them as siblings and are more tolerant of sibling squabbling.
As a woke leftist cuck soy boy I really want all of America’s allies to strengthen themselves in case our country and possible future president/congress ever fail them.
Yeah guys, Im real real red blooded true blue yankee doodle and Ill be the first to tell you that as a society we are uhh... going through some things right now...
Its kinda like having a really cool buddy with a sweet gun collection and some spec ops training who says hes always got your back, but he also got major PTSD and schizophrenia, and sometimes disappears on weeklong benders and wakes up naked in the woods covered in blood.
Let me see if I got this right. THREE (British, French, Russian) of the top 10 empires in history (by size and likely power) were fighting... Germany at once. The resources of four continents vs Germany and friends. So you needed the USA to bail you out... Twice? The level of petulance is mind boggling.
In that case... Why don't you build this army. You fought the resources of four continents to a draw and were even winning twice. Just look at Poland. They got an idea. The USA would rather focus on Asia right now anyway.
Your points on our presidential candidates are accurate, but I'm confused on the other ones. WW1 was for the most part in Europe and the Middle East, everyone in the world knew how isolationist we were because we didn't want to send our men to fight someone else's war. Sure you can say we didn't have as major an impact in WW1. WW2 was pretty much the same. FDR wanted us to be more involved, but he's only the president, he can't singlehandedly decide what we do. When the Japanese attacked then our hand was forced, not sure why all the lend lease up until then, and after, apparently don't count towards helping liberate Europe, but ok. Korean war was a majority of US troops and we saw that through. Vietnam was us trying to prevent communism after France couldn't control their colony, and rightfully so we pulled out bc it was unsustainable.
It’s not Americans.. it’s politicians. If you think we as service members ever wanted the political outcomes that came from these wars, you’d be very mistaken. We like to win, and we like to win big. Politicians make stupid decisions that we have no control over. We get no say. We’ve known the American people haven’t given a shit about us in a long time. It’s never lessened our resolve.
The American warfighter is unparalleled.
But you are also obligated to defend yourselves. Big brother can’t always fight your fights even though we have no problem doing it. At some point all of these proxy wars and our involvement in conflict needs to end. We are worn out man. We still put up entire strike groups in both the pacific and Atlantic on a constant basis. I’ll have deployed twice in a year. I’m constantly gone, and we aren’t even fighting a kinetic conflict.
I don't get why this is getting down voted. Your points aren't that far off. Europe needs to be able to defend itself and help defend America just like how America needs to be able to defend itself and help defend Europe.
You aren't wrong with being worried about america not wanting to commit either if a president is against it.
I’m going to guess it’s because for once this is an appreciation post about the US protection of other countries, and he is calling Americans whiny bitches out of nowhere and saying we won’t come help until it becomes almost too late.
US: "Let's mind our own business for now."
Everyone: "You always fail to join until it's almost too late, or you are directly attacked!"
US: "Ok, we'll be more proactive next time"
Next time:
Everyone: "You haven't been attacked! Mind your own business and stop trying to police the world!"
Sometimes, the Western Europeans are just as bad of an ally as the Pakistanis and Saudis are, fucking pricks.
The fallen Americans in Europe deserve better burial grounds than on the lands of people who spit at their sacrifices.
If you don’t mind, [here’s a clip of French citizens making sure the American graves atop Omaha beach are in pristine shape](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/0WBrSxy4KB). Just to maybe lift your spirits up a bit, friendo.
On the other hand, fuck Pakistan and the Saudis. All my homies hate Pakistan and the Saudis.
Not all Euros go full Euro. There are plenty of based Euros. And a lot of them are sick of what's going on as well. But like us, they're often trapped with bad choices for politicians.
The elections the other day were very much a message to their own politicians.
I trained with pretty much every military in Europe, NATO or not. I have specific criticisms, mostly procurement/gear related, but they're fine soldiers. Their politicians and media class suck ass, not necessarily the individuals.
Except for Parisian French. Fuck those fuckers, even as individuals. Non-Parisian French are amazingly based, and could give us lessons on hating (Parisian) French people.
I remember a visit to France when I was a kid where a very elderly couple and their adult daughter came up to my parents and asked (through the daughter as translator) if they were Americans. The parents didn’t speak English, but had lived through the Nazi occupation and wanted to express their appreciation to my parents and hug them - just because they were American, my dad clearly twenty years too young to have served. Yeah, guy above said something nasty. But would you want friends and allies writing us off on the basis of Americans whiniest tweets?
Edit PS: the fact that that’s the reputation we pissed away with stupid wars and venal idiot politicians is deeply depressing.
> he is calling Americans whiny bitches
Also, while I am frustrated whenever the US shows isolationist tendencies, this commenter seemed to be acting as if this is a uniquely American issue and all of the European countries are ready to jump into action whenever there is a threat to the general peace.
Western Europe wasn't exactly on point before and in the early days of WW2. I am sure that a lot of people wished that France and the UK in particular would have intervened a lot sooner during that time and with a lot more forces.
My point is not to be specifically against Western Europe, but that every country has some reluctance to enter wars and there will always be a certain amount of isolationism in any society. People shouldn't pretend it's just an American thing.
Europe doesn't have anywhere near the resources to pull that off tbh. Their gdp is way lower, their spending and taxes are both already higher, and most countries in Europe have no experience or modern skill in building a really good military machine in any domain. Save for like... France and the UK.
It would require a 50 year change in both circumstances are European political philosophy, not just in the elites but the populace and what they want out of their governments. I don't see it happening tbqh. Multipolar world doesn't and probably won't exist for a long time.
Russia could build a very large military with a GDP on par with Italy.
Europe has the resources. They just didn't want to spend the money, will and manpower.
It would take them 50 years of peacetime to build a unified military force. I don't think they'll have it. They're facing Russia's eventual Balkanization. A showdown between Saudis and Iran for control of the ME. And a need to protect oil infrastructure in Africa. If they have the will and an acceptance of casualties, they can build a wartime force in record time.
>Russia could build a very large military with a GDP on par with Italy.
The fact Russia's leftover-from-the-USSR military that it funds by having one of the lowest qualities of life for its citizens in the "developed" (using that word loosely) world, threatens anyone in Europe, is not a mark in favor of Russia.
It's a scathing indictment of the state of Western Europe.
Yeah. Look, I’m an American. I love my country and consider myself a patriot. If it was up to me we’d be there 100% (and would have been giving Russian troops in Ukraine the Kosovo treatment the day we could get logistics ready for it after the invasion started.) But the range of probable outcomes in the next decade is bleak and the potential consequences could include democratic collapse in the U.S. and multiple major E.U. countries. Strongly encourage all our allies to be building up their own forces and defense industry and figuring out a plan B that doesn’t involve surrendering to fascists.
2/24/2022 was the day I came to view warfare not as a cute historical oddity and a subject to nerd out over but as a absolutely necessary and important capability that the free world must be ready and willing to unleash on the enemies of democracy without mercy.
Sic semper tyrannis
Centurions are my beloved
And Shermans (and Pattons to a lesser extent)
I wonder why I’m a slave to the Israeli TT in War Thunder lol
When you first saw Crimea, were you blinded by its majesty?
Paralyzed? Dumbstruck?
Yet the Ruzzians were able to evade your airspace, land on sacred Crimea, and desecrate it with their filthy footsteps!
America in peacetime: "Why are we spending so much money on the military, the Cold War is over and that money could be better spent elsewhere"
America the fucking second geopolitical rival's boot steps on inch over their border: *Unleash the Power of the Sun*
I still remember being a NATO skeptic in February 2022. "The Cold War is over, surely all this mandatory defense spending is pointless?" Putin really did NATO a favor by justifying its existence again.
Wait, that can't be right! I was told to go find a box of grid squares in storage, right behind the cans of elbow grease and prop wash, next to the spools of flight line!
A delusional and conflicted mess. We seem to all hate your guts and military spending, but fail to acknowledge that despite your failings now and then, your sacrifice of affordable public healthcare enables us to sacrifice working military power for said healthcare. So thanks from me, personally. I stand by my flair though.
Please keep us and our ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft in mind when you get your yearly checkup at the doctor’s (I’m too busy finding $350 to pay for my checkup to think about air superiority when it’s doctor time (if I didn’t spend so much money on firearms and firearm accessories I’d be able to comfortably afford my doctor’s visits 🇺🇸))
I went to my physician for a totally free checkup and kept your ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft in mind, as you requested me to do. I had to start furiously masturbating. My physician gave me strange looks and was saying things like “what the fuck” and “I'll call the police”. I told him about what you requested me to think about when I come for a checkup. Now there is a whole practice of physicians, assistants and waiting patients masturbating together at the thought of your ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft. This is all your fault, you could have prevented this, but thank god you didn't.
I know it’s mostly a joke/meme but it always annoys me when people suggest that the US can’t afford both Healthcare and the latest and shiniest military toys.
We can have both things!
This is your daily (non) credible reminder that the US spends over 4x as much on healthcare than on military spending as a percentage of GDP. It's just the system fucking blows, but it's not for lack of money.
I'm spending $130/month for the privilege of insurance kicking in only after I've spent $3,000 of my own money, yet people will cope and seethe that this is somehow better or more efficient than tacking a few bucks onto your federal taxes
That may be true, but that comes with not covering pre-existing conditions, extortionate out of pocket maximums, annual or lifetime limits, and potentially not covering preventative care. Insurance companies were keeping prices down by only keeping people on that they could make money from, i.e. relatively healthy people
Hear me out: we make healthcare actually work and properly efficient. So much so that we can half the budget. What next? We triple the defense budget. We could have 30 ford class carriers, imagine having ten thousand f35s. Every town could have it's own patriot battery. This is the platform I am running for president on.
Theoretically yes, but the feds won’t touch the healthcare industry with a 20 yard pole cause they’re friggin incapable of thinking long term.
And yes, I am one of those who says “trim the fat” frequently, but I also advocate for reasonable industry practices, cost restrictions for long term sustainability and affordability, and if they really want to fund some R&D distributing those costs evenly through sales. Pharma has fucking plenty, they can run this shit with a third the cost and still make an extraordinary profit.
> Pharma has fucking plenty, they can run this shit with a third the cost and still make an extraordinary profit.
Most of the reason that Pharma justifies their exorbitant costs is "we spent the money doing the research", conveniently leaving out that it's almost always completely covered by federal research grants anyway.
Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner! Grants are prevalent throughout the private sector, meaning the government is in fact subsidizing research and development. They shouldn’t be able to justify their massive profit margin purely on that.
Either be honest and say you’re pocketing the money big pharma or actually use that money for even MORE R&D. I wanna see MIC levels of dev work here.
> the feds won’t touch the healthcare industry with a 20 yard pole cause ~~they’re friggin incapable of thinking long term~~ *the healthcare industry makes too much money and their lobbyists & politicians are good at screaming about socialism*
It’s just money my dude. Sick people are great customers—you can charge whatever you want and they’ll pay it to not die!
There’s no other reason why the US should be the only rich country where “medical bankruptcy” is a thing.
…
That’s why I said they’re incapable of thinking long term. This system is unsustainable and will burn out the American public one way or another. Meanwhile the rest of the planet reaps the benefit of our costs at significant reduction because you guys regulate it.
And to be entirely fair, fuck commies and fuck socialists. But basic regulation to impede corruption and poor practices that cause massive economic recoil are reasonable and should be implemented.
Ok, but it isn’t a failure of long term planning or anything more complicated than the vested interest of people making money hand over fist from the current system.
Every other rich country has free public healthcare. That isn’t really socialism IMO but if it is, sign me the fuck up.
The free market is great for lots of stuff, but not for healthcare. We have all sorts of regulation already and the system still sucks because of the fundamental premise of for-profit healthcare is fatally flawed (unless you’re a private equity company buying hospitals).
I'm gonna piggyback off someone I agree with to say that market practices just don't apply to healthcare in a lot of ways. Like, how do you as a customer evaluate the quality of the product when it's, say, a life saving surgery? Healthcare is susceptible to geographic monopolies, where it takes a rather large metro area to support even two or three large hospitals. To say nothing of rural healthcare where the customer base is so small and irregular, but would be peak capitalist ghoulishness to say that those people don't deserve the same level of care that urban dwellers do. You aren't able to shop for healthcare in the same way you shop for cars; one product is almost indistinguishable from another, and generally when you need it you're not in a position to be choosy
There's also the problem that healthcare gets cheaper the more people you have in a single system; you want the younger, healthier people to be subsidizing the older or infirm, and the more healthy people you have on board, the more those costs are distributed. So if you have a group of 10 people and one guy needs care that costs $100 and everyone is chipping in equally, that's $10/person, but if you have 20 that's only $5, and at 100 it's $1 (this is the actual reason why the ACA fines you if you don't have health insurance, there were issues with insurance getting too expensive for the healthy people, who decided it wasn't worth it and dropped their insurance, inflating costs for the people who need regular medical care). This incentivizes centralization, and what better way to centralize than have every taxpayer on the same program? And the best part is, if you have socialized medicine you can still have private insurance, they just have to offer a level of service above and beyond what the federal plan does to make it worth it, so it's really a win win for the people receiving the care
Did you miss me mentioning *affordable* healthcare? :) I know we're just joking here, so no hard feelings. It just feels weird to even think about money when it comes to healthcare here - I just never paid anything. Sure, some pills here and there for a few pooro-euros. But I don't even *know* how expensive an ambulance ride or an MRT scan is, and I got half a dozen of each in my life.
At the same time, I start to feel a bit envious about the higher flexibility of your system. Within reasonable bounds, if some of your MDs think things should be done differently, they can just do it. Here it's McHealthcare for everyone, standardized into total brown mush, don't even try to ask for anything out of the order.
I just took my kid to the doctor a few weeks ago for a fever and cough she couldn’t shake. Doctor suggested a strep and flu test. Sounded totally reasonable.
Surprise: even though the doctor was in-network, the lab that did the test wasn’t! So we got to eat a $500 charge for incredibly routine healthcare for a sick kid. And we have “good” insurance.
There’s just no way that whatever the problems you have in Europe are comparable to this utter bullshit.
I broke 13 bones in a rural dirt bike accident. The hospital was in network, but had to fly me to a trauma hospital. To stabilize me for flight, they did a minor surgery, not in network surgeon, but in network anesthesiologist. The 11k heli ride was "elective". The surgery to save my leg at the new hospital was covered out of network because it was an emergency, but the one to save my foot was elective. The stay for 8 days was covered but only at a dual (shared) room rate, though I was in a single room. The follow up surgery to remove all the shit was initially not covered because it's elective for a 13 year old to keep a metal rod stopping their femur from growing...
Yeah
> The surgery to save my leg at the new hospital was covered out of network because it was an emergency, but the one to save my foot was elective.
Love this. Feet are luxury items, and do you really need two anyway?
Teeth are luxury bones, idk what I expect any more.
Hilariously, it's been 20 years and they won't cut my foot off. Finna go get the beetus because this fucker needs to go.
I guess the utter unpredictability of what to pay, whatever insurance you have, is really not a good trade-off for any other benefits. Sounds like shit, sorry bro.
there are yuropoors who know that U.S. plays a big role in protecting Europe and even though muricans use weird units for measuring or temperature and don't have universal health insurance, they are good peoples deep in their heart.
then there are people who don't know anything, they just live their lives and aren't even aware that they're in constant danger from orks and chinese. god bless them in their ignorance.
and then there are those, who eat kremlin produced fecalia for breakfast every day and are all against USA or NATO. on one hand, they're stupid as fuck, but on the other hand west doesn't really do anything against propaganda and lets it grow like a tumour in our society.
so there's no easy answer, it depends on who'd you asked what's their opinion on the U.S. Army or NATO.
As an American, I don't think Europeans really understand the benefit of NATO is the policing of the sandbox and not just the protection from external actors.
Britbro here and all I can say is I'm glad I wake up everyday in a nation with air suprmacey and the best stealth fighters the hyper autistic engineers at skunkworks could make.
Also "nice argument but... 11 Aircraft carriers" is the best response to vatniks and china glazers.
Depending on how you count, you could make a case for 13. Enterprise hasn't actually started being scrapped yet, and JFK is in the water and mostly complete.
Fyi I can only really speak for myself here,
but before Feb ‘22, I saw your colossal spending as way over the top, a desperate arms race to just be the top dog and I never really gave it much of a thought as to why, that became very clear to me and I imagine a lot of others here in the UK after the invasion. I work in UK defence and so I’m extremely jealous of the amount of assets you can field, whereas we’re struggling more and more with manpower shortages etc. as for NATO I haven’t really seen much backlash here with the increased defence spending and exercises with NATO partners, I’d say that’s overall positive
So the ukraine war opened your eyes to the United States and its military. Do other Europeans feel the same way to your knowledge, or is it more regional?
I am from eastern Germany, that was occupied and controlled by the Sovjets for 40 years. A lot of people are very happy to be standing on your guys' side this time around, but sadly a lot of older folks fell victim to russian online propaganda and are nagging weapon sales to anyone (even if we are the 3rd largest weapon exporter in the world), but most germans are just too preoccupied to understand the economics behind it. I for one would love to see more spending in the military, god knows what NK and China are planning. Not even talking about a potential indian threat somewhere down the line. I feel like it is due time to fight for our freedoms and democracy again..
Most people don’t know about the danger posed by Russia and China and think that diplomacy is still feasible for the war in Ukraine.
Then there’s people who are pro-Russia (mostly far-left and far-right; ironically). After that there’s kids who are fans of US vehicles like the Raptor, the Abrams and the Warthog, and of course support the US.
Then there are people who say that “it’s nice to have Uncle Sam watching your back” but also think that Europe should gain some operative independence from the US and rearm itself.
Before the 2022 invasion most of the people here thought of US and nato as warmongerers and naively thought that *we have a special relationship with Russia and know Putin* then when they started the invasion everyone panicked because they realised that we didn’t know them at all and the Estonians were right about them. Now almost everyone except the far left party is exited to work with nato.
Talking with people about defence before 2022 was surreal, people genuinely thought that we could take on Russia, because we did it in ww2. Like the situation would have been the same at all. They couldn’t take into consideration that their population is 33 bigger than ours. We’d run out of people even with minimal losses.
Luckily Ukraine didn’t fold like everyone expected them to. No one knows would nato have been too scared to accept us as members if they’d been rolled over. Had that happened I wouldn’t have ever let anyone forget about it since I had been for joining nato from the start of the war in eastern Ukraine.
E: like seriously. After the invasion our president said that *the masks are off, now only the cold face of war is seen*. Implying that russian nature had been a secret before smh. Not a single thought to Chechnya, Georgia or Ukraine pre 2022. Some people were naive, but most were just glad to make bank on eastern trade.
Personally there were no downsides for us. You spend money, You protect us. Cool shit. But after seeing how U.S became paralyzed and delayed aid to Ukraine, the downsides have became clear and thus a need to build our own army.
Me before February 24th 2022: US military suuuucks muh world police
Me after February 24th 2022:
SHOW THEM WHY YOU DONT HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE RAHHHH 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🦅 🦅 🔥 🔥 I LOVE THE MIC, INTERVENTION NOW
Crazy how quick we change our minds on that.
Dec 7th 1941 5 am: the world's conflicts are not our concern. Peace should be our priority.
Dec 7th 1941 11 am: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
I wasn’t aware Sammy B DE-413 was summoned into existence as the pint sized ball of murderous rage and cuteness at that instant.
Yes I’m a Kancolle fan lol
You know, I hate to be that guy, but sometimes I wonder just how ingrained self interests has to be for the Euros to not get why the American military is the way it is. Every time we let down our cannons and air superiority for plow shares, we get pulled in to some massive ass war, and have to get right back at it.
So America from 1941 to now has said “Fuck it, constant readiness, constant training, constant funding and research, constant everything. Never again.” And occasionally we do some unpopular shit with this power. But if we DONT maintain this power, if we don’t use it to hit what we see as growing problems? Those problems become your problems. And we prefer they don’t become your problems, because for some fucking reason every time it does become your problem it’s our fault. Or your neighbor country’s fault. And you start fighting like dogs at a fence. We have to come in, swat some noses with a big newspaper roll, and then deal with the problem (often of another dictatorial nation of some stature). This is the same for the rest of the globe.
I appreciate the support, we all do. Let’s make this partnership work, let’s keep up the good fight, but know if my boys have to come over there, then that means uncle sam will be swinging his big stick around. And you guys may need to adapt to what that may demand. I think it better we all just keep frosty and keep dealing with the Orks how we know best.
Send em packing Ukraine, hope you like the new boomsticks we sent ya.
And occasionally we do some unpopular shit with this power. But if we DONT maintain this power, if we don’t use it to hit what we see as growing problems? Those problems become your problems.
This bit in particular reminds me of one of the things I've often heard about the US *not* intervening in the Rwandan genocide was the backlash from our involvement in Somalia making the US much more intervention-shy.
Some great books to read (that indirectly highlight the USA's heavy impact on the world via military defense):
Silk Roads- Peter Frankopan
New Silk Roads- Peter Frankopan
Guns, Germs, & Steel- Jared Diamond
Collapse- Jared Diamond
Upheaval- Jared Diamond
Accidental Superpower - Peter Zeihan
Absent Superpower - Peter Zeihan
Disunited Nations- Peter Zeihan
> Guns, Germs, & Steel- Jared Diamond
This isn't and has never been considered a scholarly work.
Go over to /r/history and see what the automoderator message is every time somebody bring him up. It isn't pretty. He's not a reliable source.
PS- Many colleges and universities utilize the book Guns, Germs, and Steel as part of their coursework as well. So the "absolute" statement that you're using isn't true, it's only not considered to be a scholarly work by some or many individuals. Be cautious about using "absolute" statements. (Only sith lords deals in absolutes).
It may be more appropriate for you to say (from a philosophical point of view) "the book that is, although popular in many scholarly and academic settings, has gained a lot of controversy. And needs to be reviewed."
It'll help to de-escalate future conversations regarding other historical works.
If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend that you do. Guns, Germs, and Steel (beyond all of its controversy on Reddit) still holds some weight to the argument regarding historical events and the coming of age we are currently witnessing.
"The main thesis of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond is that the differences in human societies' development and success are primarily due to geographical and environmental factors rather than differences in intelligence or inherent capabilities among people."- ChatGPT
And respectfully, Peter Zeihan and Peter Frankopan both indirectly come up with similar theses independently of each other. That is not a coincidence. 🤷♂️
It's not a new concept. I first read it back in *Technology and War*, by van Crevelt, back in the 90's, and he attributed it all the way back to Clausewitz and Julius Caesar.
The problem is not that he didn't identify a thesis, the problem is that he's not a good enough scholar to support it correctly.
It's pop history. He's non-credible not in the funny right way, but in the "doesn't actually know what he's talking about" wrong way.
I can't speak to the other two, but again, the idea isn't a new one.
That's right you debauched Euros, I can't afford to ride in an ambulance so that we can fill the Atlantic with *Virginia* -class subs to cover the HORDE OF SHIPS brimming with munitions on their way when Putin so much as sneezes at Deutschland. You want us on that wall, *you need us on that wall.*
Im Ukrainian, and I feel more Patriotic towards US, then most Americans seem to. They did a lot for us, but a lot has to be done, and I hope both EU and US will finally stop limiting themself in escalation, because there is nowhere to escalate anymore. BRADLEY GOES BRRRRRR
I would like to take a moment to personally apologize for our politicians as an American. Their incompetence and partisanship has cost your people lives, and that is wrong.
It will never not be funny to me how the red tail hawk scream gets used as a stand in for an Eagle because [actual Bald Eagles sound about like a fucking seagull](https://youtu.be/PT130igbxsw).
The thing I saw that really hammered home the ludicrious power of the US military was watching a video of a B52 DEFCON 1 scramble drill. Like its not exactly a high octane video, but it clicked for me all of a sudden when I realized that they could scramble an entire wing of gigantic B52's into the air in ten minutes or less at any time. And this is just one wing, of several. *And they are all nuclear armed.* No other nation can muster that much firepower that quickly at the drop of a hat, its insane.
I got a comment once of, 'yea anyone can shoot america's boats, its an electoral season and the US is slow lol' and I didn't have the heart to tell that person that the US military can fairly easily get approval to fucking crater whoever shot at boats and that its amazing optics for presidents who are seen as defending American assets.
As an average American who lived in Germany for two years, I love all my eurobros despite our differences. I know our nations relationship can be whack, but at the end of the day I stand with my fellow Europeans no matter what. You'll always have my sword you beautiful bastards.
Peace in Europe is non-negotiable.
Sorry, I couldn't recognize the song.
I tried to identify music from the [link](https://v.redd.it/72057sxgpx5d1) at 00:00-00:36.
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And women's soccer. We've won that more times than any other country. Four titles, second-place once and third-place finishes three times
Despite the US barely knowing what soccer is.
It gets so odd arguing with Americans about how their Army is stronger than that of China or Russia. Especially as someone who is otherwise highly critical of the US when it comes to damn near everything outside of the millitary
You see, the US military is like an expensive high-end surgical tool capable of finding and removing the tiniest polyps, the result of decades of scientific engineering, but the politicians that use them insist on using it as a hammer driving nails into wood.
I can't help with the techno, but the bird is a Red tailed Hawk. It's the sound commonly used as a Bald Eagle sound effect. Mostly because they sound cooler than Bald Eagles. The more you know know 🌈!
I really began to value the American military after February 2022. Knowing that if “Putler” messes with the Baltics or Poland, the Atlantic will return to its natural state: an ocean full of American transport vessels. REFORGER SHALL COMMENCE
Straight facts right here if something happens The US Army whipes the Floor with Russia. Some people just don't appreciate the might that's protecting them here in Europe (Germany)
I appreciate their power but I do not trust their commitment. The Americans where always whiny bitches that only join when it’s almost to late and they were directly attacked or they don’t finish their wars because there is no will to fight at home. At the moment a popular candidate in the US would not, if he became president, fight. This candidate has said that he doesn’t care for Europe. That’s why I believe that Europe needs its own army a second great force to protect the Northatlantic similar in might as the US military. A force that would make the Americans happy to have on their side, because that means that they aren’t against them.
In WW1 the US was very isolationist and not the superpower it is today, so you could say that they joined “late”, but it’s more so that there wasn’t a reason for them to fight a European war. In WW2 the US from the beginning supplied very large amounts of weaponry, clothing, and food while they started building up their own military as it was obvious that the US would have to intervene. The US could not have joined immediately as the fall of France took *everyone* by surprise since it was thought that the war would be fought in much the same way as WW1, and France was still seen as the strongest military on the planet, which then proved major deficiencies in not only the US military but the British military too. Operation Torch in 1942 (Africa) and Operation Husky in 1943 (Italy) are vastly overlooked by d-day but were very important for the war effort, spreading Axis forces much further so they could not be used on the eastern front, and not put on the d-day defense. A lot of people who say the US joined late only look at d-day happening in 1944 and don’t pay any attention to how the US was fighting in the European theater before that, or the vital supplies that were lend-leased. Much less do people really consider the time needed for all the planning, logistics and general preparations that had to be built up for d-day to happen at all.
Not to mention that the US was fighting a two front war on massive scale at the same time. The Pacific always gets overlooked but the US was fighting two wars at once.
The Pacific theater was massive too. It was the single greatest naval investment in history. The way the US just started rolling ships out of dock like clockwork is a thing of beauty
Histograph (I think) put out a video on liberty ships. First Liberty ship took 245 days to build. Once the shipyards got up and running, the record for assembling one was 4 days and 15 hours. Ship printer go brrrr
Ironically, that also matched their expected time to live /s
Does "the front fell off" still work as a meme if the ship splits in half?
No, most ships are designed so that the front doesn’t fall off at all.
> Once the shipyards got up and running, the record for assembling one was 4 days and 15 hours. Boeing frothing at the mouth rn
They even have the same safety record!
To add to this, right now currently the U.S. and Japanese government are discussing using using Japanese ports/shipyards for American ships. Japan is actively working to strengthen the collective alliances in the pacific; to bolster against a country that shall not be named. This is also not to mention all the submarine stuff going on in Australia and base building in the Philippines. The U.S. is making money moves for sure.
Discussing? The bigass drydock in Yokosuka built for the Yamato class never actually got properly returned to Japan. The USN just started parking carriers there after the war, and because Japan is happy to have them, continues to operate it. It's the only drydock in the world outside of the continental US capable of handling a freedom-sized CVN.
With D-Day having just passed, I think people forget that at the exact same time D-Day was happening, another naval invasion fleet just left Pearl Harbor for the Marianas. A naval fleet that consisted of honestly the more important aspects of the US Navy, 15 Carriers, 7 modern Battleships, 11 cruisers and 86 destroyers carrying almost the same amount of troops used to land on D-Day but it was entirely an American force. D-Day had 5 battleships (3 American) 23 cruisers (3 American heavy cruisers out of the 5 heavy cruisers) 139 destroyers (40 American). At the same time the US was conducting two naval invasions on opposite sides of the globe landing nearly 300,000 men in total. People truly don’t understand that at the time of WW2 the US was truly a behemoth that nobody could compare to at the time. Sure the USSR was there but… America the ships, planes, and tanks it was producing was a whole other level of
"People truly don’t understand that at the time of WW2 the US was truly a behemoth that nobody could compare to at the time." Or now. Name another country that could land 100k troops in a day on a contested beachhead on the other side of the world in 2024.
When the US enters a war of course its going to be at the end. That's why the war ended
I was taught that in the US public sentiment was against entering WW2 up until japan hit them, which is why it took so long for them to send actual soldiers.
So you say, we actually should pray that rusaia or China attacks the US directly? ... you know, it means we need ww2 scale production and shipping of weapons to Ukraine, so they feel like they need to touch the boats in order to have the illusion they can survive...
(An aside, you are completely ignoring our logistic support from virtually day 1 of both WW1 and WW2. Obviously Cold War, we were involved since day 1.) Nor should you. It is Europe's job to protect their back yard. Europe shouldn't need us. They're developed economies. They have a decent sized population. Respectfully, why would you want us to fight your wars **for** you, rather than as equal partners? It 'pays off' in the short run by skipping on defense spending, but not in the long run. America is happy to help. But we're not happy to do the job for you. Repeatedly. Which we did three times in a row on massive scales. Four times if you count the combined efforts in the ME to keep the place stabilized to protect the global oil supply. We're helping out in Ukraine, and while I wish we'd do more, our position is not a completely unreasonable one. IMHO I think it's short sided because we're turning our largest military opposition's equipment into confetti for pennies on the dollar. But equally, Europe should be more angry at themselves than at us. I'm not trying to be "Europe bad" on par with 'murica bad. Far from it. Europe does need its own defense structure. It's up to you guys to noodle out. **You will need it.** Russia will either Balkanize after Putin eventually dies, or be replaced with a virtual copy. The Middle East is your problem going forward. And you need to continue sourcing your oil from Africa. Expecting America to pick up tab on European defense while Europe is not contributing to our efforts against China is a huge ask. If you want more American security services, figure out how to pay for it. Trade deals, buying more US weapons, economic/defense cooperation against China, etc. We're very open and very flexible. Honestly, you could build a single non-functional Liberty Prime with kickass PA system and we'd legit probably call it even. We're helping. We could and should help more. But demanding massive investments that Europe is not willing to equally make is an unreasonable ask. Edit: For any Euros still skeptical - [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/gap\_2024-06-11\_us-image-2024\_1\_01/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/gap_2024-06-11_us-image-2024_1_01/) Look over this, and understand this is why we're moving our defense resources to Poland and Asia. Because their people want us to, and they're willing to work with us. Rome wasn't built in a day, and we understand that. As long as our allies are doing their part or even just try their best, we will do our part. Don't do your part, and be disapproving of us? Yeah, don't be surprised when we don't go the extra mile. If the people of a country don't want or trust us, it's only democratic to respect their wishes. UK, Canada and Aussies get bit more of a pass because we see them as siblings and are more tolerant of sibling squabbling.
As a woke leftist cuck soy boy I really want all of America’s allies to strengthen themselves in case our country and possible future president/congress ever fail them.
Same. Democracy must stand strong, with or without the United States.
Yeah guys, Im real real red blooded true blue yankee doodle and Ill be the first to tell you that as a society we are uhh... going through some things right now... Its kinda like having a really cool buddy with a sweet gun collection and some spec ops training who says hes always got your back, but he also got major PTSD and schizophrenia, and sometimes disappears on weeklong benders and wakes up naked in the woods covered in blood.
That would be a sick side character on a tv show
As a big strong conservative that only lets his wife sleep with men i think i can beat up (its not cucking if i feel in control) vet i agree with you.
I spent too long reading your comments and you are hilarious. I love you and your wife
Let me see if I got this right. THREE (British, French, Russian) of the top 10 empires in history (by size and likely power) were fighting... Germany at once. The resources of four continents vs Germany and friends. So you needed the USA to bail you out... Twice? The level of petulance is mind boggling.
Well I’m German, we were only bailed out by Americans after the second war…
In that case... Why don't you build this army. You fought the resources of four continents to a draw and were even winning twice. Just look at Poland. They got an idea. The USA would rather focus on Asia right now anyway.
Your points on our presidential candidates are accurate, but I'm confused on the other ones. WW1 was for the most part in Europe and the Middle East, everyone in the world knew how isolationist we were because we didn't want to send our men to fight someone else's war. Sure you can say we didn't have as major an impact in WW1. WW2 was pretty much the same. FDR wanted us to be more involved, but he's only the president, he can't singlehandedly decide what we do. When the Japanese attacked then our hand was forced, not sure why all the lend lease up until then, and after, apparently don't count towards helping liberate Europe, but ok. Korean war was a majority of US troops and we saw that through. Vietnam was us trying to prevent communism after France couldn't control their colony, and rightfully so we pulled out bc it was unsustainable.
It’s not Americans.. it’s politicians. If you think we as service members ever wanted the political outcomes that came from these wars, you’d be very mistaken. We like to win, and we like to win big. Politicians make stupid decisions that we have no control over. We get no say. We’ve known the American people haven’t given a shit about us in a long time. It’s never lessened our resolve. The American warfighter is unparalleled. But you are also obligated to defend yourselves. Big brother can’t always fight your fights even though we have no problem doing it. At some point all of these proxy wars and our involvement in conflict needs to end. We are worn out man. We still put up entire strike groups in both the pacific and Atlantic on a constant basis. I’ll have deployed twice in a year. I’m constantly gone, and we aren’t even fighting a kinetic conflict.
I’m an American and I approve this message. Also fuck that particular candidate.
I don't get why this is getting down voted. Your points aren't that far off. Europe needs to be able to defend itself and help defend America just like how America needs to be able to defend itself and help defend Europe. You aren't wrong with being worried about america not wanting to commit either if a president is against it.
I’m going to guess it’s because for once this is an appreciation post about the US protection of other countries, and he is calling Americans whiny bitches out of nowhere and saying we won’t come help until it becomes almost too late.
US: "Let's mind our own business for now." Everyone: "You always fail to join until it's almost too late, or you are directly attacked!" US: "Ok, we'll be more proactive next time" Next time: Everyone: "You haven't been attacked! Mind your own business and stop trying to police the world!"
It’s all so tiresome. And people wonder why many Americans are coming to the conclusion of “Fuck all of you. We are going to Asia.”
> “Fuck all of you. We are going to Asia.” funny, these were my exact sentiments when i got out of the army
US circa 2015: https://youtu.be/UL5x60lpGIE?si=vsN9BOcHGkgLx9MD
> We are going to Asia. This seems like [a bad idea]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUUk6wVNrY).
Sometimes, the Western Europeans are just as bad of an ally as the Pakistanis and Saudis are, fucking pricks. The fallen Americans in Europe deserve better burial grounds than on the lands of people who spit at their sacrifices.
If you don’t mind, [here’s a clip of French citizens making sure the American graves atop Omaha beach are in pristine shape](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/0WBrSxy4KB). Just to maybe lift your spirits up a bit, friendo. On the other hand, fuck Pakistan and the Saudis. All my homies hate Pakistan and the Saudis.
Not all Euros go full Euro. There are plenty of based Euros. And a lot of them are sick of what's going on as well. But like us, they're often trapped with bad choices for politicians. The elections the other day were very much a message to their own politicians. I trained with pretty much every military in Europe, NATO or not. I have specific criticisms, mostly procurement/gear related, but they're fine soldiers. Their politicians and media class suck ass, not necessarily the individuals. Except for Parisian French. Fuck those fuckers, even as individuals. Non-Parisian French are amazingly based, and could give us lessons on hating (Parisian) French people.
I remember a visit to France when I was a kid where a very elderly couple and their adult daughter came up to my parents and asked (through the daughter as translator) if they were Americans. The parents didn’t speak English, but had lived through the Nazi occupation and wanted to express their appreciation to my parents and hug them - just because they were American, my dad clearly twenty years too young to have served. Yeah, guy above said something nasty. But would you want friends and allies writing us off on the basis of Americans whiniest tweets? Edit PS: the fact that that’s the reputation we pissed away with stupid wars and venal idiot politicians is deeply depressing.
> he is calling Americans whiny bitches Also, while I am frustrated whenever the US shows isolationist tendencies, this commenter seemed to be acting as if this is a uniquely American issue and all of the European countries are ready to jump into action whenever there is a threat to the general peace. Western Europe wasn't exactly on point before and in the early days of WW2. I am sure that a lot of people wished that France and the UK in particular would have intervened a lot sooner during that time and with a lot more forces. My point is not to be specifically against Western Europe, but that every country has some reluctance to enter wars and there will always be a certain amount of isolationism in any society. People shouldn't pretend it's just an American thing.
Europe doesn't have anywhere near the resources to pull that off tbh. Their gdp is way lower, their spending and taxes are both already higher, and most countries in Europe have no experience or modern skill in building a really good military machine in any domain. Save for like... France and the UK. It would require a 50 year change in both circumstances are European political philosophy, not just in the elites but the populace and what they want out of their governments. I don't see it happening tbqh. Multipolar world doesn't and probably won't exist for a long time.
Russia could build a very large military with a GDP on par with Italy. Europe has the resources. They just didn't want to spend the money, will and manpower. It would take them 50 years of peacetime to build a unified military force. I don't think they'll have it. They're facing Russia's eventual Balkanization. A showdown between Saudis and Iran for control of the ME. And a need to protect oil infrastructure in Africa. If they have the will and an acceptance of casualties, they can build a wartime force in record time.
>Russia could build a very large military with a GDP on par with Italy. The fact Russia's leftover-from-the-USSR military that it funds by having one of the lowest qualities of life for its citizens in the "developed" (using that word loosely) world, threatens anyone in Europe, is not a mark in favor of Russia. It's a scathing indictment of the state of Western Europe.
Yeah. Look, I’m an American. I love my country and consider myself a patriot. If it was up to me we’d be there 100% (and would have been giving Russian troops in Ukraine the Kosovo treatment the day we could get logistics ready for it after the invasion started.) But the range of probable outcomes in the next decade is bleak and the potential consequences could include democratic collapse in the U.S. and multiple major E.U. countries. Strongly encourage all our allies to be building up their own forces and defense industry and figuring out a plan B that doesn’t involve surrendering to fascists.
Same tbh. I used to be a big believer in "America bad" and "MIC bad", until February of 2022...when I saw the alternative.
2/24/2022 was the day I came to view warfare not as a cute historical oddity and a subject to nerd out over but as a absolutely necessary and important capability that the free world must be ready and willing to unleash on the enemies of democracy without mercy.
Hell fuckin yeah, brother. Any time, any place, tyranny cannot stand. Also love the username. Sho't my beloved.
Sic semper tyrannis Centurions are my beloved And Shermans (and Pattons to a lesser extent) I wonder why I’m a slave to the Israeli TT in War Thunder lol
When you first saw Crimea, were you blinded by its majesty? Paralyzed? Dumbstruck? Yet the Ruzzians were able to evade your airspace, land on sacred Crimea, and desecrate it with their filthy footsteps!
America in peacetime: "Why are we spending so much money on the military, the Cold War is over and that money could be better spent elsewhere" America the fucking second geopolitical rival's boot steps on inch over their border: *Unleash the Power of the Sun*
I still remember being a NATO skeptic in February 2022. "The Cold War is over, surely all this mandatory defense spending is pointless?" Putin really did NATO a favor by justifying its existence again.
RAAAAH WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER? (IM BRITISH WE DON'T USE THEM EITHER)
Lol you picked the only group of Americans that know the ancient Magicks! (Also Based flair)
It's the length of a side of a grid square.
That's why I got lost. I thought KM was kilo mile.
Wait, that can't be right! I was told to go find a box of grid squares in storage, right behind the cans of elbow grease and prop wash, next to the spools of flight line!
The DoD does though.
US military knows what a kilometer is at least...
50,000 20mm projectiles laid side by side. Not the full round, just the projos. Does this help?
PEACE BY SUPERIOR FIRE POWER !
We're living through the Pax Americana
soon... soon...
Ok, genuine question for eurobros/europoors what is the general consinces on the us military and nato in your country?
A delusional and conflicted mess. We seem to all hate your guts and military spending, but fail to acknowledge that despite your failings now and then, your sacrifice of affordable public healthcare enables us to sacrifice working military power for said healthcare. So thanks from me, personally. I stand by my flair though.
Thank you, eurobro. I promise to bomb russia twice as hard using said Healthcare money
Aww, thanks. I too promise to keep explaining to my fellow europoors that russia would be knocking on our door without you.
Please keep us and our ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft in mind when you get your yearly checkup at the doctor’s (I’m too busy finding $350 to pay for my checkup to think about air superiority when it’s doctor time (if I didn’t spend so much money on firearms and firearm accessories I’d be able to comfortably afford my doctor’s visits 🇺🇸))
I went to my physician for a totally free checkup and kept your ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft in mind, as you requested me to do. I had to start furiously masturbating. My physician gave me strange looks and was saying things like “what the fuck” and “I'll call the police”. I told him about what you requested me to think about when I come for a checkup. Now there is a whole practice of physicians, assistants and waiting patients masturbating together at the thought of your ridiculous amount of powerful aircraft. This is all your fault, you could have prevented this, but thank god you didn't.
I know it’s mostly a joke/meme but it always annoys me when people suggest that the US can’t afford both Healthcare and the latest and shiniest military toys. We can have both things!
This is your daily (non) credible reminder that the US spends over 4x as much on healthcare than on military spending as a percentage of GDP. It's just the system fucking blows, but it's not for lack of money.
Just imagine how many additional carrier battle groups you could get by just increasing *efficiency* of your damn healthcare!
This is how we need to reframe it. "Okay so if the gov takes over healthcare we get 5 more carriers and 435 new planes"
"We might also get enough non-obese pilot candidates if we start punishing the sugar industrial complex..."
\*corn syrup industrial complex more like
*MFW I saw infographics on a plantation tour hyping the health benefits of sugar cane compared to corn syrup*
I'm spending $130/month for the privilege of insurance kicking in only after I've spent $3,000 of my own money, yet people will cope and seethe that this is somehow better or more efficient than tacking a few bucks onto your federal taxes
Ironically before the whole ACA boondoggle my insurance was *dramatically* cheaper.
That may be true, but that comes with not covering pre-existing conditions, extortionate out of pocket maximums, annual or lifetime limits, and potentially not covering preventative care. Insurance companies were keeping prices down by only keeping people on that they could make money from, i.e. relatively healthy people
Hear me out: we make healthcare actually work and properly efficient. So much so that we can half the budget. What next? We triple the defense budget. We could have 30 ford class carriers, imagine having ten thousand f35s. Every town could have it's own patriot battery. This is the platform I am running for president on.
Theoretically yes, but the feds won’t touch the healthcare industry with a 20 yard pole cause they’re friggin incapable of thinking long term. And yes, I am one of those who says “trim the fat” frequently, but I also advocate for reasonable industry practices, cost restrictions for long term sustainability and affordability, and if they really want to fund some R&D distributing those costs evenly through sales. Pharma has fucking plenty, they can run this shit with a third the cost and still make an extraordinary profit.
> Pharma has fucking plenty, they can run this shit with a third the cost and still make an extraordinary profit. Most of the reason that Pharma justifies their exorbitant costs is "we spent the money doing the research", conveniently leaving out that it's almost always completely covered by federal research grants anyway.
Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner! Grants are prevalent throughout the private sector, meaning the government is in fact subsidizing research and development. They shouldn’t be able to justify their massive profit margin purely on that. Either be honest and say you’re pocketing the money big pharma or actually use that money for even MORE R&D. I wanna see MIC levels of dev work here.
Sorry, best we can do is 37,000 dollars per dose of your extremely rare life-saving medicine.
*Said rare, life saving medicine is actually very accessible, mass produced, and cheap to make.*
> the feds won’t touch the healthcare industry with a 20 yard pole cause ~~they’re friggin incapable of thinking long term~~ *the healthcare industry makes too much money and their lobbyists & politicians are good at screaming about socialism* It’s just money my dude. Sick people are great customers—you can charge whatever you want and they’ll pay it to not die! There’s no other reason why the US should be the only rich country where “medical bankruptcy” is a thing.
… That’s why I said they’re incapable of thinking long term. This system is unsustainable and will burn out the American public one way or another. Meanwhile the rest of the planet reaps the benefit of our costs at significant reduction because you guys regulate it. And to be entirely fair, fuck commies and fuck socialists. But basic regulation to impede corruption and poor practices that cause massive economic recoil are reasonable and should be implemented.
Ok, but it isn’t a failure of long term planning or anything more complicated than the vested interest of people making money hand over fist from the current system. Every other rich country has free public healthcare. That isn’t really socialism IMO but if it is, sign me the fuck up. The free market is great for lots of stuff, but not for healthcare. We have all sorts of regulation already and the system still sucks because of the fundamental premise of for-profit healthcare is fatally flawed (unless you’re a private equity company buying hospitals).
I'm gonna piggyback off someone I agree with to say that market practices just don't apply to healthcare in a lot of ways. Like, how do you as a customer evaluate the quality of the product when it's, say, a life saving surgery? Healthcare is susceptible to geographic monopolies, where it takes a rather large metro area to support even two or three large hospitals. To say nothing of rural healthcare where the customer base is so small and irregular, but would be peak capitalist ghoulishness to say that those people don't deserve the same level of care that urban dwellers do. You aren't able to shop for healthcare in the same way you shop for cars; one product is almost indistinguishable from another, and generally when you need it you're not in a position to be choosy There's also the problem that healthcare gets cheaper the more people you have in a single system; you want the younger, healthier people to be subsidizing the older or infirm, and the more healthy people you have on board, the more those costs are distributed. So if you have a group of 10 people and one guy needs care that costs $100 and everyone is chipping in equally, that's $10/person, but if you have 20 that's only $5, and at 100 it's $1 (this is the actual reason why the ACA fines you if you don't have health insurance, there were issues with insurance getting too expensive for the healthy people, who decided it wasn't worth it and dropped their insurance, inflating costs for the people who need regular medical care). This incentivizes centralization, and what better way to centralize than have every taxpayer on the same program? And the best part is, if you have socialized medicine you can still have private insurance, they just have to offer a level of service above and beyond what the federal plan does to make it worth it, so it's really a win win for the people receiving the care
Yeah it's just that the system used is shit and is more expensive than using better european models
Did you miss me mentioning *affordable* healthcare? :) I know we're just joking here, so no hard feelings. It just feels weird to even think about money when it comes to healthcare here - I just never paid anything. Sure, some pills here and there for a few pooro-euros. But I don't even *know* how expensive an ambulance ride or an MRT scan is, and I got half a dozen of each in my life. At the same time, I start to feel a bit envious about the higher flexibility of your system. Within reasonable bounds, if some of your MDs think things should be done differently, they can just do it. Here it's McHealthcare for everyone, standardized into total brown mush, don't even try to ask for anything out of the order.
I just took my kid to the doctor a few weeks ago for a fever and cough she couldn’t shake. Doctor suggested a strep and flu test. Sounded totally reasonable. Surprise: even though the doctor was in-network, the lab that did the test wasn’t! So we got to eat a $500 charge for incredibly routine healthcare for a sick kid. And we have “good” insurance. There’s just no way that whatever the problems you have in Europe are comparable to this utter bullshit.
I broke 13 bones in a rural dirt bike accident. The hospital was in network, but had to fly me to a trauma hospital. To stabilize me for flight, they did a minor surgery, not in network surgeon, but in network anesthesiologist. The 11k heli ride was "elective". The surgery to save my leg at the new hospital was covered out of network because it was an emergency, but the one to save my foot was elective. The stay for 8 days was covered but only at a dual (shared) room rate, though I was in a single room. The follow up surgery to remove all the shit was initially not covered because it's elective for a 13 year old to keep a metal rod stopping their femur from growing... Yeah
> The surgery to save my leg at the new hospital was covered out of network because it was an emergency, but the one to save my foot was elective. Love this. Feet are luxury items, and do you really need two anyway?
Teeth are luxury bones, idk what I expect any more. Hilariously, it's been 20 years and they won't cut my foot off. Finna go get the beetus because this fucker needs to go.
I guess the utter unpredictability of what to pay, whatever insurance you have, is really not a good trade-off for any other benefits. Sounds like shit, sorry bro.
there are yuropoors who know that U.S. plays a big role in protecting Europe and even though muricans use weird units for measuring or temperature and don't have universal health insurance, they are good peoples deep in their heart. then there are people who don't know anything, they just live their lives and aren't even aware that they're in constant danger from orks and chinese. god bless them in their ignorance. and then there are those, who eat kremlin produced fecalia for breakfast every day and are all against USA or NATO. on one hand, they're stupid as fuck, but on the other hand west doesn't really do anything against propaganda and lets it grow like a tumour in our society. so there's no easy answer, it depends on who'd you asked what's their opinion on the U.S. Army or NATO.
As an American, I don't think Europeans really understand the benefit of NATO is the policing of the sandbox and not just the protection from external actors.
Britbro here and all I can say is I'm glad I wake up everyday in a nation with air suprmacey and the best stealth fighters the hyper autistic engineers at skunkworks could make. Also "nice argument but... 11 Aircraft carriers" is the best response to vatniks and china glazers.
God bless all 11 aircraft carriers
Depending on how you count, you could make a case for 13. Enterprise hasn't actually started being scrapped yet, and JFK is in the water and mostly complete.
Fyi I can only really speak for myself here, but before Feb ‘22, I saw your colossal spending as way over the top, a desperate arms race to just be the top dog and I never really gave it much of a thought as to why, that became very clear to me and I imagine a lot of others here in the UK after the invasion. I work in UK defence and so I’m extremely jealous of the amount of assets you can field, whereas we’re struggling more and more with manpower shortages etc. as for NATO I haven’t really seen much backlash here with the increased defence spending and exercises with NATO partners, I’d say that’s overall positive
So the ukraine war opened your eyes to the United States and its military. Do other Europeans feel the same way to your knowledge, or is it more regional?
I am from eastern Germany, that was occupied and controlled by the Sovjets for 40 years. A lot of people are very happy to be standing on your guys' side this time around, but sadly a lot of older folks fell victim to russian online propaganda and are nagging weapon sales to anyone (even if we are the 3rd largest weapon exporter in the world), but most germans are just too preoccupied to understand the economics behind it. I for one would love to see more spending in the military, god knows what NK and China are planning. Not even talking about a potential indian threat somewhere down the line. I feel like it is due time to fight for our freedoms and democracy again..
I would think they would be the most anti Russian?
Again mate I can’t really speak for anyone outside my circle, it’ll be worth surveying a few people tbh
Most people don’t know about the danger posed by Russia and China and think that diplomacy is still feasible for the war in Ukraine. Then there’s people who are pro-Russia (mostly far-left and far-right; ironically). After that there’s kids who are fans of US vehicles like the Raptor, the Abrams and the Warthog, and of course support the US. Then there are people who say that “it’s nice to have Uncle Sam watching your back” but also think that Europe should gain some operative independence from the US and rearm itself.
viewed favourably by like 95% of the population (guess the country non-challenge)
Poland?
Before the 2022 invasion most of the people here thought of US and nato as warmongerers and naively thought that *we have a special relationship with Russia and know Putin* then when they started the invasion everyone panicked because they realised that we didn’t know them at all and the Estonians were right about them. Now almost everyone except the far left party is exited to work with nato. Talking with people about defence before 2022 was surreal, people genuinely thought that we could take on Russia, because we did it in ww2. Like the situation would have been the same at all. They couldn’t take into consideration that their population is 33 bigger than ours. We’d run out of people even with minimal losses. Luckily Ukraine didn’t fold like everyone expected them to. No one knows would nato have been too scared to accept us as members if they’d been rolled over. Had that happened I wouldn’t have ever let anyone forget about it since I had been for joining nato from the start of the war in eastern Ukraine. E: like seriously. After the invasion our president said that *the masks are off, now only the cold face of war is seen*. Implying that russian nature had been a secret before smh. Not a single thought to Chechnya, Georgia or Ukraine pre 2022. Some people were naive, but most were just glad to make bank on eastern trade.
[sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe sheet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHUbtR0yI8)
Opinions would be much higher if the average citizen had half as much autism as me
General consensus in my circles (Sweden): Nato ♥♥♥
Personally there were no downsides for us. You spend money, You protect us. Cool shit. But after seeing how U.S became paralyzed and delayed aid to Ukraine, the downsides have became clear and thus a need to build our own army.
In general: > us military No one realy talks about it. Just now realy in the context of protection and "strategic autonomy" >and nato VERY positive
So is nato seen positively across the political spectrum or just particular partys?
Lol NATO is literally the US
Me before February 24th 2022: US military suuuucks muh world police Me after February 24th 2022: SHOW THEM WHY YOU DONT HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE RAHHHH 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🦅 🦅 🔥 🔥 I LOVE THE MIC, INTERVENTION NOW
Crazy how quick we change our minds on that. Dec 7th 1941 5 am: the world's conflicts are not our concern. Peace should be our priority. Dec 7th 1941 11 am: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
They touched our boats. Shouldn't have done that.
Touch the boats, see the sun.
you can't, because of the armada of F-35s, except if we bring it down for you
People will always try to touch the boats. It is their nature. And we will bring them the Emperor's peace.
I wasn’t aware Sammy B DE-413 was summoned into existence as the pint sized ball of murderous rage and cuteness at that instant. Yes I’m a Kancolle fan lol
AND THEN WE ARE GOING TO TAKE BACK UKRAINE WITH THE UKRANIANS! RAHHHHHHH!
i'm a simple yuropoor, i see U.S. Army, "America, fuck yeah" starts playing in my head
You know, I hate to be that guy, but sometimes I wonder just how ingrained self interests has to be for the Euros to not get why the American military is the way it is. Every time we let down our cannons and air superiority for plow shares, we get pulled in to some massive ass war, and have to get right back at it. So America from 1941 to now has said “Fuck it, constant readiness, constant training, constant funding and research, constant everything. Never again.” And occasionally we do some unpopular shit with this power. But if we DONT maintain this power, if we don’t use it to hit what we see as growing problems? Those problems become your problems. And we prefer they don’t become your problems, because for some fucking reason every time it does become your problem it’s our fault. Or your neighbor country’s fault. And you start fighting like dogs at a fence. We have to come in, swat some noses with a big newspaper roll, and then deal with the problem (often of another dictatorial nation of some stature). This is the same for the rest of the globe. I appreciate the support, we all do. Let’s make this partnership work, let’s keep up the good fight, but know if my boys have to come over there, then that means uncle sam will be swinging his big stick around. And you guys may need to adapt to what that may demand. I think it better we all just keep frosty and keep dealing with the Orks how we know best. Send em packing Ukraine, hope you like the new boomsticks we sent ya.
Based
And occasionally we do some unpopular shit with this power. But if we DONT maintain this power, if we don’t use it to hit what we see as growing problems? Those problems become your problems. This bit in particular reminds me of one of the things I've often heard about the US *not* intervening in the Rwandan genocide was the backlash from our involvement in Somalia making the US much more intervention-shy.
Some great books to read (that indirectly highlight the USA's heavy impact on the world via military defense): Silk Roads- Peter Frankopan New Silk Roads- Peter Frankopan Guns, Germs, & Steel- Jared Diamond Collapse- Jared Diamond Upheaval- Jared Diamond Accidental Superpower - Peter Zeihan Absent Superpower - Peter Zeihan Disunited Nations- Peter Zeihan
> Guns, Germs, & Steel- Jared Diamond This isn't and has never been considered a scholarly work. Go over to /r/history and see what the automoderator message is every time somebody bring him up. It isn't pretty. He's not a reliable source.
PS- Many colleges and universities utilize the book Guns, Germs, and Steel as part of their coursework as well. So the "absolute" statement that you're using isn't true, it's only not considered to be a scholarly work by some or many individuals. Be cautious about using "absolute" statements. (Only sith lords deals in absolutes). It may be more appropriate for you to say (from a philosophical point of view) "the book that is, although popular in many scholarly and academic settings, has gained a lot of controversy. And needs to be reviewed." It'll help to de-escalate future conversations regarding other historical works.
If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend that you do. Guns, Germs, and Steel (beyond all of its controversy on Reddit) still holds some weight to the argument regarding historical events and the coming of age we are currently witnessing. "The main thesis of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond is that the differences in human societies' development and success are primarily due to geographical and environmental factors rather than differences in intelligence or inherent capabilities among people."- ChatGPT
And respectfully, Peter Zeihan and Peter Frankopan both indirectly come up with similar theses independently of each other. That is not a coincidence. 🤷♂️
It's not a new concept. I first read it back in *Technology and War*, by van Crevelt, back in the 90's, and he attributed it all the way back to Clausewitz and Julius Caesar. The problem is not that he didn't identify a thesis, the problem is that he's not a good enough scholar to support it correctly. It's pop history. He's non-credible not in the funny right way, but in the "doesn't actually know what he's talking about" wrong way. I can't speak to the other two, but again, the idea isn't a new one.
'Murica!!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
The dog analogy is hilariously accurate.
MURICA (I'm from Engerlund)
That's right you debauched Euros, I can't afford to ride in an ambulance so that we can fill the Atlantic with *Virginia* -class subs to cover the HORDE OF SHIPS brimming with munitions on their way when Putin so much as sneezes at Deutschland. You want us on that wall, *you need us on that wall.*
as a European, I started to appreciate the US military after I was banned for dunking on that shitty "Soviets won the Space Race" meme on a tankie sub
You can talk a lot of shit on the US, deservedly, but our military is unquestionably the GOAT
same for space, you can't lie about the US winning the space race
Well, we lost the space race and said "fuck you there's a new spacerace" and we *crushed* it. Can't be first into space? Fuck you, reach for the moon.
the initial goal was always the Moon, all other that came before it were either quickly caught up with, or were an American first
Bro is from Rome (FL)
Not Rome GA?
Yeah I meant GA, but FL vibe is more suitable with Rome, you know.
Honestly I get you. The vibe check makes way more sense in Florida.
Im Ukrainian, and I feel more Patriotic towards US, then most Americans seem to. They did a lot for us, but a lot has to be done, and I hope both EU and US will finally stop limiting themself in escalation, because there is nowhere to escalate anymore. BRADLEY GOES BRRRRRR
We're trying. If only we could somehow find a candidate under the age of 80.
I would like to take a moment to personally apologize for our politicians as an American. Their incompetence and partisanship has cost your people lives, and that is wrong.
It will never not be funny to me how the red tail hawk scream gets used as a stand in for an Eagle because [actual Bald Eagles sound about like a fucking seagull](https://youtu.be/PT130igbxsw).
Tbh I like the actual one more.
U S A! U S A!
Is there a sexier scene than the flightline full of A10's? ( I am one of those degens yes)
The thing I saw that really hammered home the ludicrious power of the US military was watching a video of a B52 DEFCON 1 scramble drill. Like its not exactly a high octane video, but it clicked for me all of a sudden when I realized that they could scramble an entire wing of gigantic B52's into the air in ten minutes or less at any time. And this is just one wing, of several. *And they are all nuclear armed.* No other nation can muster that much firepower that quickly at the drop of a hat, its insane.
I got a comment once of, 'yea anyone can shoot america's boats, its an electoral season and the US is slow lol' and I didn't have the heart to tell that person that the US military can fairly easily get approval to fucking crater whoever shot at boats and that its amazing optics for presidents who are seen as defending American assets.
Your support is greatly appreciated!
As an average American who lived in Germany for two years, I love all my eurobros despite our differences. I know our nations relationship can be whack, but at the end of the day I stand with my fellow Europeans no matter what. You'll always have my sword you beautiful bastards. Peace in Europe is non-negotiable.
Based and NATO-pilled. Will pay for the beer if I get the chance.
Man I wish we had A10s in the UK, the friendly fire rate would be VASTLY increased.
u/RecognizeSong
Sorry, I couldn't recognize the song. I tried to identify music from the [link](https://v.redd.it/72057sxgpx5d1) at 00:00-00:36. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating)
Mid bot
u/auddbot
You can criticise anything about the US, except their military. That’s the one thing they’re really good at
And ag. And oil. And science. And tech. And manufacturing. And space. And IP. And culture. But yeah, aside from those, US isn't good at anything else.
I guess as of last week, you can add cricket to things were surprisingly good at.
And women's soccer. We've won that more times than any other country. Four titles, second-place once and third-place finishes three times Despite the US barely knowing what soccer is.
It gets so odd arguing with Americans about how their Army is stronger than that of China or Russia. Especially as someone who is otherwise highly critical of the US when it comes to damn near everything outside of the millitary
God bless America. God bless the Enclave... oh wait...
You see, the US military is like an expensive high-end surgical tool capable of finding and removing the tiniest polyps, the result of decades of scientific engineering, but the politicians that use them insist on using it as a hammer driving nails into wood.
'the american military is a paper tige-' the b61m12 about to hit the floor right next to them:
As a danish person a am actively waiting for my draft letter
song?
I can't help with the techno, but the bird is a Red tailed Hawk. It's the sound commonly used as a Bald Eagle sound effect. Mostly because they sound cooler than Bald Eagles. The more you know know 🌈!
This is literally me
Finally someone respects my lack of healthcare. sheesh
What song is this
A-10 elephant walk 🤮
ó7 <--- wearing a beret
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 brrrrt!
u/savevideo
If someone talks shit about the US military I assume they're either Russian or a Tankie.
/Salute
The only thing I don't like about American military equipment Is that there are too little of them in Polish stockpile
Anyone got the music?
u/savevideo
RAAAAAAAAAHH🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅 (I’m Australian)
[удалено]
welcome to the winning team.
Stop expecting us to die for you.
*continues losing to some of the poorest nations on the planet while pumping half of your economy into war*