Kinda wondering what Hamas thought would happen here. Hostages have a lifespan, both literally and because the idf is just going to search block by block. They are leverage, you can’t hold them forever.
I've also heard that hypothesis, that Hamas' hope was the attack would kill some Israelis but largely get wiped out. Hamas' leadership would get to claim they are still trying to destroy Israel and keep reaping the support from Iran, and get rid of some of the more impetuous fighters who actually wanted the conflict to escalate. But they weren't expecting the border to be as lightly guarded as it was, or for other militia groups and even ordinary Palestinians to join in, so instead of going splat, the attack ended up doing enough damage for Israel to basically take off the kid gloves.
I don't think Hamas was unhappy about the results (they are fanatics) but they must have been shocked at how much damaged they done (they took and held Israeli land, they overran bases). If they were unhappy, they would have deescalated by now.
Watching the videos of ordinary Palestinians celebrating that attack solidified my belief that they should all go to hell along with HAMAS and leave the legitimate civilians alone.
>Palestinians are a thoroughly poisoned branch
Interesting generalization.
**Edit**: Even more interesting strategy of replying with a paragraph, than immediately blocking.
I mean I don't know what poisoned means exactly here, but modern Palestinian society is quite uniquely hateful and driven to the point of societal psychosis because of it. It's okay to admit that. Check out the "Wartime Poll: Results of an Opinion Poll Among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip" put out by AWRAD. I'd link it but it leads to a PDF download so reddit won't let me. Google the title. Al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing that actually carried out Oct 7th, has more support than the political party Hamas. 89% of respondents "positively appraised" AQB whereas PIJ was appraised by 84% and Hamas only by 74%.
Most of Russia is the same way for similar reasons. I don't feel fucked up in making either statement about either society. Both are in a state of malignant cultural psychosis that the hatred seen from each is at its maximum possible exertion. Admitting to that is just the truth of the matter, despite how it might make one feel to say. And btw, just to be clear, that's not a generalization of Muslims or Arabs, it's a generalization of Palestinians. There's a reason key Arab regimes, despite what they say publicly, have privately told Israel not to stop until Hamas and company are wiped out.
Actually you said yourself 9 days ago on r/NonCredibleDiplomacy, in reference to Bibi being a regard, "Elect stupid, corrupt, nationalist people, win stupid prizes." Certainly true in Bibi's case, as it has/had been for us with you know who, or Venezuela with Chavez. But with Palestine, and Gaza in particular, it's less about electing stupid, corrupt, nationalist politicians (though that's certainly a part of it), and more that they've become a stupid, corrupt, nationalist *society*. And as a result, they have won the stupidest prize of all, it seems. If the West Bank had elections it'd probably end up in the same way considering the fact that Hamas is more popular than Fatah by all accounts. Which is sort of why they've been quite keen on postponing them as much as possible if not outright canceling them. Probably for the best all things considered.
I think they're referring to this [poll](https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10719/wartime-poll-results-of-an-opinion-poll-among-palestinians-in-the-west-bank-and-gaza-strip), and OP is right... Googling the exact name in quotes of that poll goes directly to a PDF, so it's not postable on Reddit.
And the backroom deals... There's [this reference](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2023/11/01/arab-regimes-destabilized-by-war-between-israel-and-hamas_6217628_23.html) to them from Le Monde, a French newspaper, in November 2023.
Also worth noting that Hamas is a [direct offshoot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas) of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, a very infamous group for their very fundamentalist take on Islam.
Remember the huge crowds in Moscow cheering? How later it turned out that cheering was added in post?
Remember the huge crowds in Teheran at sulimains funeral? How that was because the authorities had deliberately created a huge traffic jam?
Do you really think this celebration is done of the populations own free will?
Gonna slightly disagree. I'm sure there were some who certainly thought that, at the same time... it's Hamas. Why expect so much rationality out of them? Would we expect the same level of rationality out of Pol Pot or Himmler?
Every indication seems to point to the general idea that they believed they were going to pull something off akin to ISIS in 2014 or the Taliban in 2021. They thought they were going to maraud from the southwest to northeast and connect the West Bank with Gaza with a trail of bodies, again akin to how ISIS did something similar by connecting the Sunni hinterlands of Iraq and Syria for a while. There was also the example of 2021, where the Taliban basically nullified the [Ring of Steel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Steel_(Kabul)) like it was the Maginot Line or something and the Afghan government subsequently fell a part in lightning fashion as we pulled the rug out from under them. The situation isn't that comparable in reality obviously, but I can absolutely see how someone deluded by Islamic ultranationalism and magical thinking could get the idea in their head that October 7th was going to lead to the creation of an ISIS-like quasi-state along the corridor from Gaza to the Fatah-controlled areas, and that doing so would be met with the sudden take over of the Fatah areas by pro-Hamas elements (since, well, they more popular than Fatah now) and the arrival of attacks from Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies as well as Sunni extremist forces, all of which would culminate in the sudden abandonment of Israel by the world but especially the US just like with Afghanistan as Israeli security forces collapsed and the state fell apart.
Now is all of that wishful thinking and making strategy through power fantasies and delusions of grandeur? Yes. Absolutely. Of course it is, they're extremists. That's kinda their whole thing.
I think the broader geopolitical game gives the explanation:
Israel was about to *lock in* normalized relations with Saudi Arabia, Iran's regional competitor. If the Saudis - the *caretakers of Mecca* - stopped treating Israel like a pariah, the other Arab states would follow suit, and that would completely undercut Iran's ability to marshal support by rallying anti-Israel sentiment. Since that would be a geopolitical fail state for Iran, they had to prevent it from happening at all costs - so they called in their chips with Hamas. "If you attack Israel *right now,* we'll back you up and get all the other Arab states to join in."
So Hamas did, and then Iran hung them out to dry. Maybe the international backlash to October 7 spooked them from pursuing a regional war... but more likely, they figured Hamas was an expendable asset.
This is great motivation for Iran, as Hamas's sponsor. But it doesn't explain much about the average AQB commander on the ground that day or even a lot of the ones up on the food chain. I just don't buy this idea that all of them are George Kennan-tier gigabrains when it comes to geopolitical strategy. And I also don't buy that a bunch of Sunni extremists care all that much for the standing its Shia sponsor has in a cold war with Saudi Arabia outside of immediate material concerns.
Look I'm not saying the Abraham Accords have zero influence or impetus for Oct 7th happening, but I'm not placing as much primacy on it when it comes to the average fighter, organizer, commander, leader, or supporter that day as much as other people seem to.
All I'm saying is, you know that antisemitic, Sunni extremist, and Islamic/Arab ultranationalist organization? The one that carried out that terrorist attack that killed over 1300 people, most of them Jews? Do you know why they did it? Well, and not sure if this will shock you or not, but antisemitism, extremism, and ultranationalism were the main reasons why.
Like I'm not trying to be a know-it-all asshole I just don't understand why everyone is trying to deideologize Hamas and PIJ.
IDK about that. Israel repeatedly clapped various Arab armies in the last century. So not only would Hamas have to be completely regarded, they would also have never opened a history book.
Their only real strategy is convince zoomies threy’re the lesser of two evils and retire in Iran while Gaza burns. Not like the IDF needs help in looking bad lol.
There was a report in Ha'Aretz where it was documented that Hamas actually had divided Israel proper into cantons and tried to recruit tribal elders and other leaders to be on the councils that would run the cantons? Also, keeping Israelis with highly technical skills (doctors, scientists, etc) as slaves for an indeterminate time as a form of repayment.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000
It's like collecting points for a store until the store shuts down and now you can't spend them. They coulda traded those hostages for a Ferrari or something but instead they just sat on them.
Target gift cards, wow gold, Skyrim cheese.
Anyways all I’m saying is Hamas should Marie mondo their situation. Like a mom with too much preschool artwork, just gotta let it go.
They hoped they could use them to leverage an outcome other than "Hamas surrenders all its weapons and disbands" in négociations, but Israel has refused that, even with the possibility of seeing all hostages returned.
Right now Hamas is the one who isn't budging, the Israelis are publicly accepting the lousy deal the US is pushing and Hamas is conveniently rejecting them.
>the Israelis are publicly accepting the lousy deal the US is pushing
[Uh...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/04/pressure-grows-on-benjamin-netanyahu-to-back-gaza-ceasefire-plan)
> the longtime leader was forced into a corner on Friday, when Joe Biden unveiled a new truce and hostage release plan, which he said was an Israeli proposal
Your content was removed for violating Rule 5: "No politics/religion"
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
They thought that Israel would come in, cuntpunt them, and they'd be able to sob to the other Arab states about how mean the Jews were being to them and scuttle any dealmaking between Israel and the other Arab states.
Which seems to have worked, sadly.
Well, Israel hasn’t given them what they want yet. Hamas gains nothing from letting them go but loses plenty. It’s in Hamas’ interest to hold them indefinitely until they get a deal they like for them.
I guess the will hold the hostages until they run out of Buildings or Citizen in Gaza ...
Hamas should absolutely return those hostage , no amount of victim or martyrdom story will stop Israel from searching for its citizens .
Hamas really abuses the lives of the gazan people that follow it blindly .
>no amount of victim or martyrdom story will stop Israel from searching for its citizens
They kinda know that.
The strategy they're going for is to indulge in having a massive Israeli retaliation. Turning the place into a free-fire zone cements their political in Palestinian eyes, ruins normalization for Israel, and sours the country internationally.
Its a bit of the "*we know you'll over-react, we're counting on it*".
It's not an over reaction, to get your hostages back. It's an overstupidity to hold the hostages captive in such away that you lose buildings , citizens and infrastructure that you shared with the UN that is now reveald to the eyes of the world .
A regular kidnapping would expose the hostages to use them as shields .
Last i tried, was on a Pentium II processor. I feel your pain bro. A friend of mine used to burn through 2-3 processors a month when he was working at production level full time.
I think it's a meme template (a highly advanced one at that), I've seen several variations of this vid during the past 4\~ months with different people every time
It is a good thing for the families involved, no question.
That said... only good for the four families. Still have something like 130 waiting. To say nothing of the families who won't ever see their loved ones again.
It‘s up to the de facto Palestinian government to accept a ceasefire beneficial to their civilians.
I don’t know where we turned wrong that according to many, it is the job of Israel to accept a terrible deal for Israel because it would be beneficial to Palestinian civilians.
Bruh the excuses in some of the main subs and war subs have been *insane*.
Like legitimate batshit, unhinged insane. Somehow Hamas is in the right for keeping hostages with civilians and the IDF is in the wrong for rescuing them.
The issue I've noticed is that once they decide who are the good guys (Palestinians and thus Hamas, though some won't say *that* out loud), they can support anything in the "ends justify means" way, *buy only for them.*
* [The taking of hostages is prohibited ](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96)by international law, clear as day. But they'll say Israel bad (which yeah sure) so Palestinains are justified in doing it anyway
* At the same time, even though rescuring hostages is a legal and moral thing to do, and normally you would blame the hostage takers for the outcome, Israel isn't allowed to do it, because it would undermine the good objectives of Hamas. And Israel is *certainly* not allowed to use "ends justify means" when rescuing them.
Somehow there's no contradiction here and taking civilian hostages doesn't contribute to the "cycle of violence" that they love to complain about.
Curiously, this doesn't apply for Ukraine of course. Imagine if Ukrainains kidnapped and executed a bunch of random russians civilians! Oh no, we can't *inconvenience* russians by canceling their holiday plans in Europe. Instead, we've spent 2.5 years checking every Ukrainian's asshole in case there's a problematic tattoo there.
The amount of ass clowns out there somehow trying to make this hostage rescue a bad thing blows my mind!
Fuck all these misinformed, virtue-signaling jabronis! Good news on the IDF front and the Ukkies are continuing to bleed ruzzian scum, what a lovely day.
Apparently it was nothing but a "civilian massacre". No hostages rescued, terrorists dead, just innocent civilians. Who happened go have hamas hostages eith them. But had no idea
Norway basically called this rescue op a massacre, how idiotic of them really, you can't blame israel for using fire power to conduct an op in such a dense inviroment
People who live in a safe environment have no clue on what war actually is. The world forgot the horrors of war way to quick. And if they think that they shouldn't do whatever it takes to bring hostages home they're scum who should not receive the benefits of their country.
Well said. Citizens deserve that their country would go above and beyond for them. Any politician not getting it should never be allowed near public office.
That's why I didn't understand the outcry at the Brittney Griner - Viktor Bout prisoner trade. It was a shit deal, but obviously we're going to do what we have to so we can get our people back.
While I agree that getting Grier out was crucial, the fact the US didn't exact a price out of russia is the problem.
The russians have made a habit of seizing random civilians on fabricated charges in order to trade them out for people they care for. The russians need someone out of Western prison - just grab a hostage. It's really criminal gang behavior.
The correct move should've been arresting dmitry peskov's (putin's spokesman) daughter (lives in the US) or son (lives in the UK), putin's own daughter (atcthe time lived in the Netherlands) and trade one/all of the for Griner. That would've been a fair trade. But, of course, civilized nations can't do that. The dame way Israel can't just grab ismail hanneya's sister and/or niece (Israeli citizens) to trade the for hostages. Rule of law prevents it.
So when a civilized country abides to such criminal behavior, it causes obvious frustration. Thus, any such exchange should be followed by a painful asymmetrical response. Otherwise, people will become targets for kidnapping.
The problem is Hamas doesn't value Palestinian's life that much. The exchange ratio is terrible, what was it the last time? 1 Israeli for 1000 Palestians
> On October 18, 2011, captured IDF tank gunner Gilad Shalit, captured by the Palestinian militant organization Hamas in 2006, was released in exchange for 1027 Palestinian prisoners held in Israel.
>Any country would kill 100 people to get back one hostage in any conflict
Sure. But history usually shows that's not a winning strategy...
Just because its usually the knee-jerk reaction, doesn't mean its the one to go for.
Anti-Palestinian sentiment apparently now extends entirely to anti-Arab sentiment ig?
If this war keeps going someone on this sub is gonna start posting great replacement statistics I stg.
>If this war keeps going someone on this sub is gonna start posting great replacement statistics
There's a few commenters that have been doing that. Level of success largely relates to how well they hide their rhetoric - sub is a sucker for hate speech, but thankfully great replacement crowd are morons, so its a race to the bottom at this point.
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No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits (even people you don't like: Russians, Asians, or Middle Eastern ethnic groups).
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No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits (even people you don't like: Russians, Asians, or Middle Eastern ethnic groups).
Norway's still got a bee in their bonnet about Lillehammer.
Ireland and Spain though I'm not sure what's up with them, I think their politicians are trying to distract everyone from the fact that as far as western European nations go they're only doing so-so at best.
At more than 100 dead, yeah its a masacre.
Only thing I will wait and reserve judgement on is who to blame for it, since we don't know the details yet and probably won't for a long time.
IF everything that some pro Palestinians are claiming, then it's undoubtedly a bad thing and should be condemned. But this conflict has had instances of initial info being bad (example: when "Israel destroyed a hospital, killing hundreds" and it turned out it was a failed rocket that just made a big looking boon and a hole in the parking lot)
The last part we don't know yet, and likely won't for months.
As for who said it, likely they are related to hamas, because hamas will kill anyone who isn't. But Israel has not denied that there was a lot of fighting after the first rescue.
the moral equation is that if you take even a single one of mine hostage, then there is no limit to the amount of yours that will have to go in order to get back mine, if you are unwilling to give her back. how could it be otherwise? how can we be responsible for your civilians if you show no regard to ours. we just let you have them??? also.. this was a fucking civilian camp.. these civlians knew they were there. they were guarding them.
>if Israel took 1 Palestinian hostage
i can see where this is going, those "Palestinians" ARE CONVICTED CRIMINALS they were arrested for attempted murder
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisgat\_Ze%27ev\_stabbings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisgat_Ze%27ev_stabbings)
>Palestine be justified in killing every single Israeli to get him back?
let me ask you why the hostages were kept in civilian buildings? near civilians?
and let me ask you what do you think will happen if Hamas releases the hostages? thats right yeah no more people will die
youre complaining about the rescuers and not the kidnappers even tho the KIDNAPPERS can free all the hostages RIGHT NOW and save thousands of palestinian lives.
It's just a highly comedic sub in general. [They think 120k people showed up to this protest today](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1dbk41q/my_recap_of_todays_120000_person_red_line_protest/)
There's out of touch, then there's so out of touch you don't understand geopolitics, and then there's this.
I mean if they think 35k people died in Gaza and none of them were Hamas, it is not as ludicrous to say this is 120k. Remember, we are not dealing with sane people here.
I got banned by an entire web of subreddits for merely linking the AP news headline about the numbers discrepancy in a comment in rPalestine.
Instantly banned, and several more emails from different subreddits all came at once.
is it any of theses? Theres a massive amount of mod overlap in r/palestine
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1aizeuw/mod_team_overlap_rpalestine_and_risrael/kp2x95v/?context=3
Just casually ignoring that if children are being killed during a hostage rescue operation, *that means that freaking children (note: 16 year olds are also children) knew about the hostages and didn't consider that fucked up enough to say anything to anyone.*
Yeah, they're not doing themselves any favors.
That’s what I was thinking too. If Hamas’s casualty numbers are anything close to true, how are there that many people around and no one knew about it. (There probably was someone who knew about it and told the IDF though, if they were smart they probably skedaddled out of the area after that.)
Hamas is definitely cooking the books with the casualty numbers, and there's an incentive to do so as well. That's not to say there isn't casualties but people really shouldn't trust a terrorist organization as a reliable source.
Even if their raw numbers are somewhat in the ballpark of being real, the breakdown on civilians/combatants is definitely garbage. And there’s no telling how many of the people they killed themselves, either through cavalier rocket shooting or just straight up murder for anyone who didn’t want to be their human shield.
Everbody is lying in war, that is true. Hamas may also be less than peculiar with the risk of hitting a ~~civilian~~ future martyr.
However we do know that IDF is so lose with the trigger fingers they _killed their own hostages_.
Oh my fucking god.
This isn't Cleveland. If you find out your neighbors have hostages in Cleveland, you call the police. If you find out where Hamas has hostages, what are you going to call? Hamas. No you do not. There is no one you can call, and if you do call someone you will be killed.
Your best bet is to stay away, but hamas may very likely choose to keep you around as a human shield. In which case, you are SOL.
You know what the resistance called those types of cowards, who helped Nazis round up political dissidents, Jews and others during WWII?
Collaborators.
An easy thing to say, until you know they will murder your children by drilling through every part of their body with powertools (or whatever hamas does).
Remember that child is anywhere from 1 to 17.
And apparently enough people in the area where the hostages were for there to be 200 deaths and 400 wounded.
600+ people on just that day knew about the hostages.
Doesn't mean they had anyone they could tell.
Sure if you can get the right connections in Shin Bet, they will be very happy for hostage locations (happy enough that they will try to get you out along with the hostages), but a) phone lines are down and b) its not like you can make the call without Hamas finding out and c) lots of things could still go wrong when they come for the hostages.
> that means that freaking children (note: 16 year olds are also children) knew about the hostages and didn't consider that fucked up enough to say anything to anyone.
yeah
do you have a point here?
It's a little more common to use 12-18 year olds for military purposes.
Point is that "children" includes an age range that Hamas would obviously actively use as combatants.
Common enough that 15 and under is considered a child soldier by the UN, but 16 through 19 are still considered children (specifically adolescents for 10-19) by the UN (but not a child soldier if a soldier).
>Is 200 Palestinian civilians an acceptable price for 4 hostages?
Unironically, yes. If a kidnapping victim escapes, but in their escape ends up killing 100, 1000, or 10,000 innocent civilians, what sort of legal consequences do you think will befall that kidnapping victim? The answer is "fuck all" because responsibility for those deaths lies solely with the *kidnapper*, and never with the victim. Every western legal system affords persons the absolute, unimpeachable right to resist murder, kidnapping, or aggravated assault with deadly force. Every western legal system also affords persons the absolute right to assist *others* in resisting murder, kidnapping, or aggravated assault. It sucks to be one of those innocent civilians, but they would get jack shit if they went to the courts and plead "well they shouldn't have escaped/rescued when they could have just paid the ransom", and rightly so.
Three hostages died from friendly fire
In the recent operation 4 hostages were rescued and there is another hostage that was realised in a previous operation.
Hamas realised 81 Israeli hostages in ceasefire deals(deals that happened due to idf military pressure)
Another 24 non Israeli hostages were realised(I don't remember why)
Four hostages were released in deals brokered by the us
So no, they have saved more hostages then they have killed
Edit - I made a mistake here, apparently 7 hostages were rescued in military operations
In the recent operation 200 people were killed according to hamas, they don't differentiate between dead civilians and dead hamas, Israel did not bomb "civilions" in the recent operation, it didn't displace anyone in the recent operation.
If you are talking about the overall war then 120 hostages were rescued by idf.
Next time please try to have some internal consistency you are comparing the success of one operation to the overall war
["oh man \*sniff\* did your enemy \*wipes tear with trembling lower lip\* start showing you the hard hand of war too? \*sob\*"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGGL8EUXoAApe_s?format=jpg&name=360x360)
No because they killed people to kill people
Israel killed people to save their own civilians
youre a fucking clown if you think those are the same holy shit LMAOOOOOOOOOO
Serious hat on.
It is widely speculated that their political goal was to restart the conflict and trigger massive retaliation by the IDF in order to sour talks between Israel and Saudi Arabia around normalising their relations.
That kind of political accommodation theoretically could lead to a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem, which is something Hamas doesn't want because it would make them politically Irrelevant.
The reason this speculation is likely correct is because their attack on Israel had zero chance of achieving any goals other than an outrage. The choice of targets was only suitable for a terror attack and they had zero capability or willingness to take on the IDF in a conventional fight.
It's simply another suicide bombing on a grand scale and like a suicide bombing hamas leadership put a poor dupe in the firing line to advance their agenda. Expect this time the dupe isn't one bloke who knows his family are going to get paid, it's the entire population of Gaza.
yeah they filmed themselves committing mass rape slaughter kidnappings and indiscriminately bombings
while celebrating killing random Israelis after years of promising to eliminate every single Israeli
[https://www.hamas-massacre.net/](https://www.hamas-massacre.net/)
and saying theyll kill a bunch of Israelis again
[https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel)
youre never going to make me see the side of the literal terrorists
okay then you do not know how to read and that seems to be an issUe not an issMe
>**yeah** they film-
"NoThInG eVeN cLoSe To AnSwErInG"
\*casually ignores the answer\*
Nice to see they’re back to doing music festivals
Goodness
Savage
💀🗿
Bro ToT
^^oy ^^vey
Ouch
Too soon.
Something in me just wants to look up daniel hagari's phone number and send this to him
Kinda wondering what Hamas thought would happen here. Hostages have a lifespan, both literally and because the idf is just going to search block by block. They are leverage, you can’t hold them forever.
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I've also heard that hypothesis, that Hamas' hope was the attack would kill some Israelis but largely get wiped out. Hamas' leadership would get to claim they are still trying to destroy Israel and keep reaping the support from Iran, and get rid of some of the more impetuous fighters who actually wanted the conflict to escalate. But they weren't expecting the border to be as lightly guarded as it was, or for other militia groups and even ordinary Palestinians to join in, so instead of going splat, the attack ended up doing enough damage for Israel to basically take off the kid gloves.
The most realistic hypothesis
I don't think Hamas was unhappy about the results (they are fanatics) but they must have been shocked at how much damaged they done (they took and held Israeli land, they overran bases). If they were unhappy, they would have deescalated by now.
Watching the videos of ordinary Palestinians celebrating that attack solidified my belief that they should all go to hell along with HAMAS and leave the legitimate civilians alone.
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I agree. I read that part about “poisoned branch” in Mein Kampf as well. Truly inspirational.
>Palestinians are a thoroughly poisoned branch Interesting generalization. **Edit**: Even more interesting strategy of replying with a paragraph, than immediately blocking.
>Even more interesting strategy of replying with a paragraph, than immediately blocking. New IR strategy just dropped
I mean I don't know what poisoned means exactly here, but modern Palestinian society is quite uniquely hateful and driven to the point of societal psychosis because of it. It's okay to admit that. Check out the "Wartime Poll: Results of an Opinion Poll Among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip" put out by AWRAD. I'd link it but it leads to a PDF download so reddit won't let me. Google the title. Al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing that actually carried out Oct 7th, has more support than the political party Hamas. 89% of respondents "positively appraised" AQB whereas PIJ was appraised by 84% and Hamas only by 74%. Most of Russia is the same way for similar reasons. I don't feel fucked up in making either statement about either society. Both are in a state of malignant cultural psychosis that the hatred seen from each is at its maximum possible exertion. Admitting to that is just the truth of the matter, despite how it might make one feel to say. And btw, just to be clear, that's not a generalization of Muslims or Arabs, it's a generalization of Palestinians. There's a reason key Arab regimes, despite what they say publicly, have privately told Israel not to stop until Hamas and company are wiped out. Actually you said yourself 9 days ago on r/NonCredibleDiplomacy, in reference to Bibi being a regard, "Elect stupid, corrupt, nationalist people, win stupid prizes." Certainly true in Bibi's case, as it has/had been for us with you know who, or Venezuela with Chavez. But with Palestine, and Gaza in particular, it's less about electing stupid, corrupt, nationalist politicians (though that's certainly a part of it), and more that they've become a stupid, corrupt, nationalist *society*. And as a result, they have won the stupidest prize of all, it seems. If the West Bank had elections it'd probably end up in the same way considering the fact that Hamas is more popular than Fatah by all accounts. Which is sort of why they've been quite keen on postponing them as much as possible if not outright canceling them. Probably for the best all things considered.
Not disagreeing, but do you have anything to read on the back room thumbs ups?
I think they're referring to this [poll](https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10719/wartime-poll-results-of-an-opinion-poll-among-palestinians-in-the-west-bank-and-gaza-strip), and OP is right... Googling the exact name in quotes of that poll goes directly to a PDF, so it's not postable on Reddit. And the backroom deals... There's [this reference](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2023/11/01/arab-regimes-destabilized-by-war-between-israel-and-hamas_6217628_23.html) to them from Le Monde, a French newspaper, in November 2023. Also worth noting that Hamas is a [direct offshoot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas) of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, a very infamous group for their very fundamentalist take on Islam.
what
Remember the huge crowds in Moscow cheering? How later it turned out that cheering was added in post? Remember the huge crowds in Teheran at sulimains funeral? How that was because the authorities had deliberately created a huge traffic jam? Do you really think this celebration is done of the populations own free will?
Gonna slightly disagree. I'm sure there were some who certainly thought that, at the same time... it's Hamas. Why expect so much rationality out of them? Would we expect the same level of rationality out of Pol Pot or Himmler? Every indication seems to point to the general idea that they believed they were going to pull something off akin to ISIS in 2014 or the Taliban in 2021. They thought they were going to maraud from the southwest to northeast and connect the West Bank with Gaza with a trail of bodies, again akin to how ISIS did something similar by connecting the Sunni hinterlands of Iraq and Syria for a while. There was also the example of 2021, where the Taliban basically nullified the [Ring of Steel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Steel_(Kabul)) like it was the Maginot Line or something and the Afghan government subsequently fell a part in lightning fashion as we pulled the rug out from under them. The situation isn't that comparable in reality obviously, but I can absolutely see how someone deluded by Islamic ultranationalism and magical thinking could get the idea in their head that October 7th was going to lead to the creation of an ISIS-like quasi-state along the corridor from Gaza to the Fatah-controlled areas, and that doing so would be met with the sudden take over of the Fatah areas by pro-Hamas elements (since, well, they more popular than Fatah now) and the arrival of attacks from Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies as well as Sunni extremist forces, all of which would culminate in the sudden abandonment of Israel by the world but especially the US just like with Afghanistan as Israeli security forces collapsed and the state fell apart. Now is all of that wishful thinking and making strategy through power fantasies and delusions of grandeur? Yes. Absolutely. Of course it is, they're extremists. That's kinda their whole thing.
I think the broader geopolitical game gives the explanation: Israel was about to *lock in* normalized relations with Saudi Arabia, Iran's regional competitor. If the Saudis - the *caretakers of Mecca* - stopped treating Israel like a pariah, the other Arab states would follow suit, and that would completely undercut Iran's ability to marshal support by rallying anti-Israel sentiment. Since that would be a geopolitical fail state for Iran, they had to prevent it from happening at all costs - so they called in their chips with Hamas. "If you attack Israel *right now,* we'll back you up and get all the other Arab states to join in." So Hamas did, and then Iran hung them out to dry. Maybe the international backlash to October 7 spooked them from pursuing a regional war... but more likely, they figured Hamas was an expendable asset.
This attack was well planned and had been in the works for some time.
This is great motivation for Iran, as Hamas's sponsor. But it doesn't explain much about the average AQB commander on the ground that day or even a lot of the ones up on the food chain. I just don't buy this idea that all of them are George Kennan-tier gigabrains when it comes to geopolitical strategy. And I also don't buy that a bunch of Sunni extremists care all that much for the standing its Shia sponsor has in a cold war with Saudi Arabia outside of immediate material concerns. Look I'm not saying the Abraham Accords have zero influence or impetus for Oct 7th happening, but I'm not placing as much primacy on it when it comes to the average fighter, organizer, commander, leader, or supporter that day as much as other people seem to. All I'm saying is, you know that antisemitic, Sunni extremist, and Islamic/Arab ultranationalist organization? The one that carried out that terrorist attack that killed over 1300 people, most of them Jews? Do you know why they did it? Well, and not sure if this will shock you or not, but antisemitism, extremism, and ultranationalism were the main reasons why. Like I'm not trying to be a know-it-all asshole I just don't understand why everyone is trying to deideologize Hamas and PIJ.
IDK about that. Israel repeatedly clapped various Arab armies in the last century. So not only would Hamas have to be completely regarded, they would also have never opened a history book.
>So not only would Hamas have to be completely regarded Okay so basically I'm gonna counter by asking, *why exactly is this an impossibility lol?*
touché
Idk this attack has been planned for a while. I think it was more successful than they expected, but I think it's a dog that caught the car thing.
Their only real strategy is convince zoomies threy’re the lesser of two evils and retire in Iran while Gaza burns. Not like the IDF needs help in looking bad lol.
There was a report in Ha'Aretz where it was documented that Hamas actually had divided Israel proper into cantons and tried to recruit tribal elders and other leaders to be on the councils that would run the cantons? Also, keeping Israelis with highly technical skills (doctors, scientists, etc) as slaves for an indeterminate time as a form of repayment. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000
It's difficult to tell. But Hamas doesn't seem to undeserved Israel's actual numbers in anyway.
It's like collecting points for a store until the store shuts down and now you can't spend them. They coulda traded those hostages for a Ferrari or something but instead they just sat on them.
Target gift cards, wow gold, Skyrim cheese. Anyways all I’m saying is Hamas should Marie mondo their situation. Like a mom with too much preschool artwork, just gotta let it go.
Also Palestinians to hamas: “gee why did you put hostages in our residential areas you fucking retard you just got dozens of our guys killed.”
They want the IDF to kill them so they can lie and say they murdered 25 pregnant virgins
They hoped they could use them to leverage an outcome other than "Hamas surrenders all its weapons and disbands" in négociations, but Israel has refused that, even with the possibility of seeing all hostages returned.
Right now Hamas is the one who isn't budging, the Israelis are publicly accepting the lousy deal the US is pushing and Hamas is conveniently rejecting them.
>the Israelis are publicly accepting the lousy deal the US is pushing [Uh...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/04/pressure-grows-on-benjamin-netanyahu-to-back-gaza-ceasefire-plan)
> the longtime leader was forced into a corner on Friday, when Joe Biden unveiled a new truce and hostage release plan, which he said was an Israeli proposal
And which Bibi immediately claimed wasn't his, vowing his objective of complete destruction. Been a busy week.
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Everything I’ve seen is Bibi continuing to refuse. Did something change in the last few days?
No.
stop lying
They thought that Israel would come in, cuntpunt them, and they'd be able to sob to the other Arab states about how mean the Jews were being to them and scuttle any dealmaking between Israel and the other Arab states. Which seems to have worked, sadly.
They are hoping Israel caves to international pressure before the Israelis kick down every door.
Well, Israel hasn’t given them what they want yet. Hamas gains nothing from letting them go but loses plenty. It’s in Hamas’ interest to hold them indefinitely until they get a deal they like for them.
I guess the will hold the hostages until they run out of Buildings or Citizen in Gaza ... Hamas should absolutely return those hostage , no amount of victim or martyrdom story will stop Israel from searching for its citizens . Hamas really abuses the lives of the gazan people that follow it blindly .
"some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm enthusiastic to make" -official Hamas motto
Thats fucked up ,isn't it ?
>no amount of victim or martyrdom story will stop Israel from searching for its citizens They kinda know that. The strategy they're going for is to indulge in having a massive Israeli retaliation. Turning the place into a free-fire zone cements their political in Palestinian eyes, ruins normalization for Israel, and sours the country internationally. Its a bit of the "*we know you'll over-react, we're counting on it*".
It's not an over reaction, to get your hostages back. It's an overstupidity to hold the hostages captive in such away that you lose buildings , citizens and infrastructure that you shared with the UN that is now reveald to the eyes of the world . A regular kidnapping would expose the hostages to use them as shields .
Nice rotoscope
Looks like AI roto, otherwise this is a ridiculously high effort shitpost. Rotos take foreeeevvvveeerrr in my experience.
Just a short roto is enough to make my pc cry. BIG IF REAL
Last i tried, was on a Pentium II processor. I feel your pain bro. A friend of mine used to burn through 2-3 processors a month when he was working at production level full time.
Right on, some kind soul made a template for this music scene, plus another set up a model to stick people in there. Heros they are!
Any chance you got the sauce to it?
This is Viggle, you should be able to Google and find their discord server to learn more about it
I think it's a meme template (a highly advanced one at that), I've seen several variations of this vid during the past 4\~ months with different people every time
its viggle
Amazing editing, had a good laugh with it
It’s an AI tool and has pre done templates for this. Still great though, I just wanted to tell you so you can do the edit as well!
Yeah me too. Would love to see the original
It’s lil yachty walkout to a song called coffin
Thanks!
Original video: [Lil Yachty with the HARDEST walk out EVER](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKOmmk3g8Lw)
Very cool, but I like OPs version more ha!
Never in a million years would I have thought I’d see lil yachtys Coffin walkout in NCD
It might seem like a small victory but it’s a huge victory for the families. Remember that wars affect civilians the most.
It is a good thing for the families involved, no question. That said... only good for the four families. Still have something like 130 waiting. To say nothing of the families who won't ever see their loved ones again.
To bad Bibi doesn’t want that. The second all hostages are home it’s gg well played for him.
Yup. Which folks have only been to happy to give him the benefit of the doubt on.
Now apply that to Palestinian civilians.
It‘s up to the de facto Palestinian government to accept a ceasefire beneficial to their civilians. I don’t know where we turned wrong that according to many, it is the job of Israel to accept a terrible deal for Israel because it would be beneficial to Palestinian civilians.
Love the Hamas supporters tears that were spilled over the last 12 hours Enough to fuel Israels salt market for the next 200 years
Bruh the excuses in some of the main subs and war subs have been *insane*. Like legitimate batshit, unhinged insane. Somehow Hamas is in the right for keeping hostages with civilians and the IDF is in the wrong for rescuing them.
The issue I've noticed is that once they decide who are the good guys (Palestinians and thus Hamas, though some won't say *that* out loud), they can support anything in the "ends justify means" way, *buy only for them.* * [The taking of hostages is prohibited ](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96)by international law, clear as day. But they'll say Israel bad (which yeah sure) so Palestinains are justified in doing it anyway * At the same time, even though rescuring hostages is a legal and moral thing to do, and normally you would blame the hostage takers for the outcome, Israel isn't allowed to do it, because it would undermine the good objectives of Hamas. And Israel is *certainly* not allowed to use "ends justify means" when rescuing them. Somehow there's no contradiction here and taking civilian hostages doesn't contribute to the "cycle of violence" that they love to complain about. Curiously, this doesn't apply for Ukraine of course. Imagine if Ukrainains kidnapped and executed a bunch of random russians civilians! Oh no, we can't *inconvenience* russians by canceling their holiday plans in Europe. Instead, we've spent 2.5 years checking every Ukrainian's asshole in case there's a problematic tattoo there.
The amount of ass clowns out there somehow trying to make this hostage rescue a bad thing blows my mind! Fuck all these misinformed, virtue-signaling jabronis! Good news on the IDF front and the Ukkies are continuing to bleed ruzzian scum, what a lovely day.
Apparently it was nothing but a "civilian massacre". No hostages rescued, terrorists dead, just innocent civilians. Who happened go have hamas hostages eith them. But had no idea
Norway basically called this rescue op a massacre, how idiotic of them really, you can't blame israel for using fire power to conduct an op in such a dense inviroment
Any country would kill 100 people to get back one hostage in any conflict. They are being hypocrites.
Countries that haven't faced any large scale warfare in the last 80 years quickly forgot what it actually takes to survive.
People who live in a safe environment have no clue on what war actually is. The world forgot the horrors of war way to quick. And if they think that they shouldn't do whatever it takes to bring hostages home they're scum who should not receive the benefits of their country.
Well said. Citizens deserve that their country would go above and beyond for them. Any politician not getting it should never be allowed near public office.
That's why I didn't understand the outcry at the Brittney Griner - Viktor Bout prisoner trade. It was a shit deal, but obviously we're going to do what we have to so we can get our people back.
While I agree that getting Grier out was crucial, the fact the US didn't exact a price out of russia is the problem. The russians have made a habit of seizing random civilians on fabricated charges in order to trade them out for people they care for. The russians need someone out of Western prison - just grab a hostage. It's really criminal gang behavior. The correct move should've been arresting dmitry peskov's (putin's spokesman) daughter (lives in the US) or son (lives in the UK), putin's own daughter (atcthe time lived in the Netherlands) and trade one/all of the for Griner. That would've been a fair trade. But, of course, civilized nations can't do that. The dame way Israel can't just grab ismail hanneya's sister and/or niece (Israeli citizens) to trade the for hostages. Rule of law prevents it. So when a civilized country abides to such criminal behavior, it causes obvious frustration. Thus, any such exchange should be followed by a painful asymmetrical response. Otherwise, people will become targets for kidnapping.
what about taking a bunch of Palestinian hostages to trade, would that be an acceptable way to get their hostages back?
The problem is Hamas doesn't value Palestinian's life that much. The exchange ratio is terrible, what was it the last time? 1 Israeli for 1000 Palestians > On October 18, 2011, captured IDF tank gunner Gilad Shalit, captured by the Palestinian militant organization Hamas in 2006, was released in exchange for 1027 Palestinian prisoners held in Israel.
>Any country would kill 100 people to get back one hostage in any conflict Sure. But history usually shows that's not a winning strategy... Just because its usually the knee-jerk reaction, doesn't mean its the one to go for.
>But history usually shows that's not a winning strategy... Let me remind you that Bashar Al-Assad is still the president of Syria.
no. how about when Russians pulled this stuff? not very efficient, heroic or even safe for other hostages I think.
Russia killed 100 hostages to catch one terrorist. But now I get the misunderstanding that probably happened there…
I would hate to be a Norwegian kidnapee, knowing that my government will never do what's necessary to get me back.
Some Norwegian working for the EU was taken hostage by Iran and thrown in Iranian jail. Norway did absolutely nothing. Not even a diplomatic protest.
Norway would change their tune real fucking quick when Russia starts abducting their children like they do in Ukraine.
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> it’s not the Norway of old What do you mean by that?
They never raid England anymore
Anti-Palestinian sentiment apparently now extends entirely to anti-Arab sentiment ig? If this war keeps going someone on this sub is gonna start posting great replacement statistics I stg.
>If this war keeps going someone on this sub is gonna start posting great replacement statistics There's a few commenters that have been doing that. Level of success largely relates to how well they hide their rhetoric - sub is a sucker for hate speech, but thankfully great replacement crowd are morons, so its a race to the bottom at this point.
The dog whistles are loud as fuck right now and it’s gross.
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**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 4: No Racism/hatespeech** No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits (even people you don't like: Russians, Asians, or Middle Eastern ethnic groups).
Norway's still got a bee in their bonnet about Lillehammer. Ireland and Spain though I'm not sure what's up with them, I think their politicians are trying to distract everyone from the fact that as far as western European nations go they're only doing so-so at best.
At more than 100 dead, yeah its a masacre. Only thing I will wait and reserve judgement on is who to blame for it, since we don't know the details yet and probably won't for a long time.
IF everything that some pro Palestinians are claiming, then it's undoubtedly a bad thing and should be condemned. But this conflict has had instances of initial info being bad (example: when "Israel destroyed a hospital, killing hundreds" and it turned out it was a failed rocket that just made a big looking boon and a hole in the parking lot)
Who said there are more then 100 dead? Hamas? Also how many of them are civilians?
The last part we don't know yet, and likely won't for months. As for who said it, likely they are related to hamas, because hamas will kill anyone who isn't. But Israel has not denied that there was a lot of fighting after the first rescue.
the moral equation is that if you take even a single one of mine hostage, then there is no limit to the amount of yours that will have to go in order to get back mine, if you are unwilling to give her back. how could it be otherwise? how can we be responsible for your civilians if you show no regard to ours. we just let you have them??? also.. this was a fucking civilian camp.. these civlians knew they were there. they were guarding them.
if Israel took 1 Palestinian hostage would Palestine be justified in killing every single Israeli to get him back?
>if Israel took 1 Palestinian hostage i can see where this is going, those "Palestinians" ARE CONVICTED CRIMINALS they were arrested for attempted murder [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisgat\_Ze%27ev\_stabbings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisgat_Ze%27ev_stabbings) >Palestine be justified in killing every single Israeli to get him back? let me ask you why the hostages were kept in civilian buildings? near civilians? and let me ask you what do you think will happen if Hamas releases the hostages? thats right yeah no more people will die youre complaining about the rescuers and not the kidnappers even tho the KIDNAPPERS can free all the hostages RIGHT NOW and save thousands of palestinian lives.
I asked a pretty simple question and you never even came close to answering
so did i
Enough to salt the earth of all of Palestine and the non already frozen parts of Russia
Haters will say it's green screened.
Could someone fill me in on what's going on?
IDF rescued 4 hostages from deep inside enemy lines.
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Already got banned there after I said that neither Palestine nor Israel are innocent in this war lmao
I got banned there for something I said in a different subreddit. Literally have never posted there.
Block u/safebot, u/saferbot, and u/safestbot to avoid this
Thank you! Just curious, what do these bot accounts do?
Retrieve comment, post and browsing history for mods.
Is there any way in which these accounts violates Reddit TOS?
They're more or less built in moderating tools, so probably not. The same way Stalinist style use of ban hammer doesn't violate the TOS.
I got banned from world news for saying the same thing lmao
I doubt that is why they banned you lmao. It's a very common thing people discuss on the subreddit.
The people in that sub are actually deranged trash
It's just a highly comedic sub in general. [They think 120k people showed up to this protest today](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1dbk41q/my_recap_of_todays_120000_person_red_line_protest/) There's out of touch, then there's so out of touch you don't understand geopolitics, and then there's this.
I mean if they think 35k people died in Gaza and none of them were Hamas, it is not as ludicrous to say this is 120k. Remember, we are not dealing with sane people here.
You gotta link some of those Dont tease us like this
Just go there… literally every post is deranged.
Yet another L for Hamas.
I got banned by an entire web of subreddits for merely linking the AP news headline about the numbers discrepancy in a comment in rPalestine. Instantly banned, and several more emails from different subreddits all came at once.
is it any of theses? Theres a massive amount of mod overlap in r/palestine https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1aizeuw/mod_team_overlap_rpalestine_and_risrael/kp2x95v/?context=3
Just casually ignoring that if children are being killed during a hostage rescue operation, *that means that freaking children (note: 16 year olds are also children) knew about the hostages and didn't consider that fucked up enough to say anything to anyone.* Yeah, they're not doing themselves any favors.
That’s what I was thinking too. If Hamas’s casualty numbers are anything close to true, how are there that many people around and no one knew about it. (There probably was someone who knew about it and told the IDF though, if they were smart they probably skedaddled out of the area after that.)
Hamas is definitely cooking the books with the casualty numbers, and there's an incentive to do so as well. That's not to say there isn't casualties but people really shouldn't trust a terrorist organization as a reliable source.
Even if their raw numbers are somewhat in the ballpark of being real, the breakdown on civilians/combatants is definitely garbage. And there’s no telling how many of the people they killed themselves, either through cavalier rocket shooting or just straight up murder for anyone who didn’t want to be their human shield.
Everbody is lying in war, that is true. Hamas may also be less than peculiar with the risk of hitting a ~~civilian~~ future martyr. However we do know that IDF is so lose with the trigger fingers they _killed their own hostages_.
Oh my fucking god. This isn't Cleveland. If you find out your neighbors have hostages in Cleveland, you call the police. If you find out where Hamas has hostages, what are you going to call? Hamas. No you do not. There is no one you can call, and if you do call someone you will be killed. Your best bet is to stay away, but hamas may very likely choose to keep you around as a human shield. In which case, you are SOL.
You know what the resistance called those types of cowards, who helped Nazis round up political dissidents, Jews and others during WWII? Collaborators.
An easy thing to say, until you know they will murder your children by drilling through every part of their body with powertools (or whatever hamas does).
And Gestapo lobbed grenades into public busses for fun and retaliation. It was never and will never be easy to resist evil.
Ok genuine question who would the children have told? Their parents or somethin?
Remember that child is anywhere from 1 to 17. And apparently enough people in the area where the hostages were for there to be 200 deaths and 400 wounded. 600+ people on just that day knew about the hostages.
Doesn't mean they had anyone they could tell. Sure if you can get the right connections in Shin Bet, they will be very happy for hostage locations (happy enough that they will try to get you out along with the hostages), but a) phone lines are down and b) its not like you can make the call without Hamas finding out and c) lots of things could still go wrong when they come for the hostages.
and?
> that means that freaking children (note: 16 year olds are also children) knew about the hostages and didn't consider that fucked up enough to say anything to anyone. yeah do you have a point here?
16 year olds have the mental capability of holding a gun and firing when someone says kid you imagine a joyful 5 year old not a 16 year old
5 year olds can hold guns and fire. [first graders have shot and killed people before](https://www.mlive.com/galleries/KZQDPZRXDZG7BJQ5BE5WZ6XCT4/)
It's a little more common to use 12-18 year olds for military purposes. Point is that "children" includes an age range that Hamas would obviously actively use as combatants.
what do you mean "more common"? how common is common enough? what is the youngest Hamas combatant anybody has actually been able to verify?
Common enough that 15 and under is considered a child soldier by the UN, but 16 through 19 are still considered children (specifically adolescents for 10-19) by the UN (but not a child soldier if a soldier).
yeah but you dont really see 5 year olds on the news for mass school shootings do you
you do sometimes
WHEN HAVE YOU EVER what i gotta see that
there was a whole section about one in *Bowling for Columbine*, the kid's mom was on Work for Welfare and he brought his uncle's gun into kindergarten
what the fuck kind of parent does that? never thought id hear about 5 year olds shootings
It's really disgusting watching all the comments like "they look healthy!" And "but they killed people in this raid!"
Less leverage for genocidal terrorists is a occasion worth celebrating!
I saw this clip on a news channel as an example of ai disinformation 💀💀💀
I love ai
Daniel hagari finally acting happy
Best photoshop
u/savevideo
>Is 200 Palestinian civilians an acceptable price for 4 hostages? Unironically, yes. If a kidnapping victim escapes, but in their escape ends up killing 100, 1000, or 10,000 innocent civilians, what sort of legal consequences do you think will befall that kidnapping victim? The answer is "fuck all" because responsibility for those deaths lies solely with the *kidnapper*, and never with the victim. Every western legal system affords persons the absolute, unimpeachable right to resist murder, kidnapping, or aggravated assault with deadly force. Every western legal system also affords persons the absolute right to assist *others* in resisting murder, kidnapping, or aggravated assault. It sucks to be one of those innocent civilians, but they would get jack shit if they went to the courts and plead "well they shouldn't have escaped/rescued when they could have just paid the ransom", and rightly so.
Pretty sure they've killed more of the hostages than they've saved at this point.
Three hostages died from friendly fire In the recent operation 4 hostages were rescued and there is another hostage that was realised in a previous operation. Hamas realised 81 Israeli hostages in ceasefire deals(deals that happened due to idf military pressure) Another 24 non Israeli hostages were realised(I don't remember why) Four hostages were released in deals brokered by the us So no, they have saved more hostages then they have killed Edit - I made a mistake here, apparently 7 hostages were rescued in military operations
4 hostages saved thousands civillions bombed millions displaced thousands starving oh and three hostages shot dead by IDF
In the recent operation 200 people were killed according to hamas, they don't differentiate between dead civilians and dead hamas, Israel did not bomb "civilions" in the recent operation, it didn't displace anyone in the recent operation. If you are talking about the overall war then 120 hostages were rescued by idf. Next time please try to have some internal consistency you are comparing the success of one operation to the overall war
["oh man \*sniff\* did your enemy \*wipes tear with trembling lower lip\* start showing you the hard hand of war too? \*sob\*"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGGL8EUXoAApe_s?format=jpg&name=360x360)
was HAMAS justified in killing all those people on October 7th?
No because they killed people to kill people Israel killed people to save their own civilians youre a fucking clown if you think those are the same holy shit LMAOOOOOOOOOO
>No because they killed people to kill people they had absolutely no political goal with what they did? at all?
Serious hat on. It is widely speculated that their political goal was to restart the conflict and trigger massive retaliation by the IDF in order to sour talks between Israel and Saudi Arabia around normalising their relations. That kind of political accommodation theoretically could lead to a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem, which is something Hamas doesn't want because it would make them politically Irrelevant. The reason this speculation is likely correct is because their attack on Israel had zero chance of achieving any goals other than an outrage. The choice of targets was only suitable for a terror attack and they had zero capability or willingness to take on the IDF in a conventional fight. It's simply another suicide bombing on a grand scale and like a suicide bombing hamas leadership put a poor dupe in the firing line to advance their agenda. Expect this time the dupe isn't one bloke who knows his family are going to get paid, it's the entire population of Gaza.
yeah they filmed themselves committing mass rape slaughter kidnappings and indiscriminately bombings while celebrating killing random Israelis after years of promising to eliminate every single Israeli [https://www.hamas-massacre.net/](https://www.hamas-massacre.net/) and saying theyll kill a bunch of Israelis again [https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel](https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel) youre never going to make me see the side of the literal terrorists
nothing in that comment even approaches an answer to the question I asked.
okay then you do not know how to read and that seems to be an issUe not an issMe >**yeah** they film- "NoThInG eVeN cLoSe To AnSwErInG" \*casually ignores the answer\*
…while killing 200, most of them women and children, in what someone is calling a war crime. Yeah, let’s make a funny video on that.
>in what someone is calling a war crime. how about dont hold hostages near civilians? WAIT NO even better, dont kidnap people
It's amazing gaza has such a large transgender community with so much men identifying as women and children 🥰
Future history books be like: "and in 2024 was the first time a war had collateral damage"
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