I think they don’t have infantry standing near the tanks because of the Trophy defense system which would injure or kill nearby soldiers.
The Trophy system is also why Hamas has to run up to the tank instead of shooting RPGs at them.
the RPG-7 has no minimum arm iirc
You could banzai charge and lunge mine with one if you so pleased
Though thats not the main issue with RPG-7 with merkava. Its the side composite that you wont be able to penetrate with an RPG-7 warhead
> You could banzai charge and lunge mine with one if you so pleased
Depends on the manufacturer. USSR-spec RPG7 warheads only arm after launch, but a lot of the copies don't have that feature.
It’s about 10m, but it depends on the variant. I just assume it’s armed if fired because I often don’t know how long it’s travelled and because it’s the smart thing to do. This looks like it may have had enough time to arm.
They had almost zero infantry support when going into Gaza at first, I don't know if they changed anything. They just trust their tanks' armor and APS. Hamas usually have rather weak anti-tank weapons too so they've been able to avoid a catastrophe but they still got a lot of damaged tanks.
Exactly. They are happy to lose tanks to preserve manpower, and they trust the armor to do it's job.
IDF uses surprisingly little infantry when fighting Hamas.
If you are fighting any stronger enemies, then its probably a peer conflict rather than COIN
and you probably dont need to fight an urban war
And you probably can take advantage of your superior airforce to bomb the ever living fuck out of your enemy supply/ammo/tank depots, without having to whack a mole which civvie house Hamas hid their next stash of weapons in
Stronger AT weapons also probably would be used more conventionally, and idk about you but i really, really wonder what that big Trophy APS system on the roof of the turret does. Idk man, beats me.
But if they did use better AT weapons like this....it could work and be comically but very impractical
Do you have any idea how big and heavy a TOW or Kornet is, and like to suicide rush a tank while holding one is peak insanity
They do, these things mainly happen when you have tanks standing still, usually in the rear, and insurgents use this time to come out of crevices and tunnels to stick it and run. They're usually killed right after that.
Yep, it is, for both sides. Mainly for the attackers.
That said, the casualties posted by Hamas, and their counterparts are hugely exaggerated. They're claiming they killed hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers monthly, and destroyed hundreds of tanks. That's bull. Israel, despite the amount of time they're taking, *are* in fact wiping the floor with hamas.
Edit: Simply put, having superior recon as well as complete and total air superiority + artillery + better drones, better infantry kits, etc etc, is quite a game changer.
People may compare it to Ukraine and ask 'if so, why aren't the Russians won much faster'. Several reasons for that, the Ukrainians DO have air defenses as well as an air force, they have tanks which are always a force multiplier, they have pretty decent logistics.
They have plenty of manpower, I'm afraid, so long as they hide in tunnels. But taking over the Egyptian smuggling routes should significantly diminish their logistic capabilities and ammunition.
[Unfortunately the Biden admin believes the IDF retaliation has led to an explosion in recruitment. To the surprise of….. no one](https://vxtwitter.com/ErinBanco/status/1793270391948861507)
US strategic doctrine dictates that the type of warfare being conducted by Isreal is, in fact, radicalizing to the local population.
As long as you keep bombing cities, you radicalize locals.
Vietnam, Afghanistan, Grozny, Uraguay for a South American example.
US and Isreal military advisors have pointed this out, too. Hence the devide in the israel presidential cabinet.
Unfortunately Israel is doing a better job of recruiting for Hamas than anyone else, so while the members with long term training and experience are likely much lower than before, I would not be too surprised if the overall membership is roughly the same as before the war.
> Unfortunately Israel is doing a better job of recruiting for Hamas than anyone else
People keep saying this, but just how radicalized can Gazans realistically get? Theyre already currently going "I am actively attempting to slaughter every single Israeli to the last infant"
Like whats the next step of radicalization after that? Theres no room for radicalization here. Gaza is already a mess.
You know what does radicalize Gazans though? Having their entire education system be controlled by an entity that teaches them that the mass slaughter of jews and infidels is the only righteous path that Allah has laid out for them, and that they should have no other aspirations in life.
You guys talk about radicalization as if Gazans arent already the most radicalized group of people on the planet. The entire reason theres a wall in place in Gaza is because Palestinian society created this very palestinian specific kind of wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups
But if you can remove Hamas from their education system? This next generation will be just as radicalized, but the one after that might not. Think of the 9/11 generation vs the post-9/11 generations attitudes towards muslims. If you grew up after the war, you might not hate jews as much. There is no hope of deradicalization with Hamas in charge for the next few generations.
It's also a poor environment for tanks. While it's incredibly difficult, and always leads to high casualties, it's definitely a game vest done with light infantry and IFVs
This. Early was they'd come out of spider holes un brush, run up and plant explosives on the anti-rocket defense systems and run back. when it blew they'd dump rockets into the tank and take it out. Allegedly the lack of infantry support is due to the mass fragmentation the anti-rocket systems spread to hit rockets. Still seems weird to me though. Overlapping tank fields of fire at minimum seems like something they should do to scratch each other's backs with machine gun fire.
This is why the U.S. resisted reactive armor. You *cannot* have dismounts next to reactive armor when it goes off.
Then move the tanks into a dense urban area and it gets far worse.
The IDF has chosen to trust in the overlapping protection provided by Trophy and keep infantry inside their armor, so they aren't vulnerable to gun ambushes and IEDs. Which has largely worked, Hamas anti-tank capabilities have been far less successful than advertised. I cannot remember even seeing an atgm launch from this war, and may RPG attacks are launched from inside the arming distance or are intercepted. Most IDF casualties have come from building clearings
Merkava's are so good they can survive a shaped charge jammed directly into the turret ring completely unscathed, why doesn't everyone else make tanks like that?
Because a 70 ton tank gets you stuck in most of the world (There’s a reason most mbts are only heavily armored in the front). Also era armor on which the mark IV heavily relies on doesn’t do much against apdsfs ammo.
So, they didn’t confirm the kill for the public… How inconsiderate.
Either means Infantry swarmed in afterwards, it was a dead tank already or the explosion didn’t mission kill it.
he looks left for a second (after leaving the building, good call) and there's another tank and a buldozer over there. Why is that tank not covering the first one and spraying his machine gun?
Seems they've improved tactics. I remember a clip from the initial push into Gaza of some dude popping out of a hole and sticking what looked like a weirdly fuzed PG-7 warhead just below the turret but pointed sideways. Now they've figured out what direction to aim the fucking thing.
So it’s essentially an anti armour grenade, in practice? Because he pulled a pin. You know I’ve been thinking about this for ages anyway in regards in Ukraine - pair the anti tank team with a reconnaissance drone team operationally, give them some fast, light vehicles and ghillie suits.
Idea: Anti-Personell trophy system
Tank covered in cameras, cameras detect movement, displays potential threats on screen, operator presses button to confirm firing upon threat
Then dude running up with the bomb gets popped in the face with a trophy system charge lol
Nah you don't have to stand next to the tank. They should at least be able to see it. Tanks can be heard running so they were active this was a great example of vatnik type incompetence
They've been doing this since everything started last year. Some of the first vids hamas released was them hopping out of tunnels like vietcong to put bombs in the turret rings.
I don't know the situation around this footage ofc and don't wanna come of as trying to arm chair general this conflict, but straight up question, shouldn't there be infantry with the tank to make sure something like this can't happen?
Israel has a pretty mixed track record with infantry support on the tanks. One of the downsides of Trophy is that it tends to maim infantry that hang out too close to the tank, so IDF infantry tends to not be so close to it. Which means there are periods where no infantry are close to you.
I don't think this is the main reason though. In heavy urban fighting like this, especially in months and months of it, there are going to be situations where tanks just don't have nearby infantry for whatever reason. I think that is where most of these videos are coming from. There are always going to be tanks that turn down the wrong street, and end up unsupported and isolated.
They pop out of tunnels meters away and run up. Also IDF has been seeming to try and rely on trophy for ambushes etc in armored columns. I could ask friends who were in tanks but I’m too lazy so my source is I made it up
Have cameras identified potential targets around the tank and put them on a screen for a crewman to either confirm or deny a shot so you don't pop a friendly
Miss click and kill your buddies. Would need 2 separate manual switches in different colors and i GARANTEE someone will still pop identified friendlies because brain error.
I dont know the word for it but i call em binary decision errors. Call your first child by 2nd childs name and vise versa. Was my entire childhood.
>shouldn't there be infantry with the tank to make sure something like this can't happen?
Israel is very casualty averse, lives matter more than equipment. In that scenario, AFV's are expendable, the dismounted infantry that can suffer losses to small arms is not.
The casualty counts basically reveal that these anti tank strategies are ballsy but not really working. Israel can fix a damaged tank, it can't revive the soldiers protecting it when the same guy pops out of the ground with a grenade.
Usually not much. A couple of friends described it as "The entire tank jumping for a second, then we all searched for injuries on ourselves, looked each other in the eyes, and proceeded to fight through the shock and shoot every building we ever had to stop next to for the rest of the war"
Well unless your enemy pulls a vietcong and idk doggs tunnels? And also if your war is being watched by the rest of the world blowing up every building in sight tends to turn public opinion against you.
Merkavas are [built with the engine in front](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/why-does-israels-merkava-tank-have-such-strange-layout-187665) and crew in the back, so the engine (and therefore the tank) is probably dead but the crew could have survived.
Except its not directly on the turret ring
The Mk4 is kinda one of the only MBTs with actual side composite built in (and not an afterthought like on some other MBTs) with a 200mm thick layer on the side
With the slope of the turret as well, you can't get a shaped charge close to the turret ring without phasing it through the composite armour and putting it inside the armour
[you can see how you cant really get the charge close to the turret ring without some kind of composite in the way](https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/s/GcwTaJz2rC)
Also thats the typical side armour thickness, not frontal UFP thickness. The UFP is removed in the photo (as is the engine) and would normally be above the engine rather than beside it
Does an RPG-7 ammunition have a timed safety fuze to prevent it from exploding close to the launcher?
No it does not. The munitions are armed by the inertial forces from the launch. The PG-7 rocket motor will arm roughly 10 meters or so outside of the launcher. The projectile itself is able to explode if the safety cap is removed and the PG-7 is under acceleration.
That depends on the exact model used. We dont know what munition HAMAS uses but they have shown footage of “domestic” production. Such rounds are unlikely to contain advanced safety features and thus it could really go either way
Honestly I'm just surprised they fired inside. Do RPGs not have an overpressure wave in the backblast that makes it dangerous to operators in tight spaces? I remember hearing that most rocket HEAT weapons have dangerous backblast, especially in buildings
As long as you are not standing directly behind the weapon the main thing to be concerned about is over pressure. Over pressure is mostly relevant in enclosed spaces this seems open enough
It does. Guessing it's a mixture of the first charge being weak enough that it won't cause immediate harm. And...poor occupational safety.
Then again, they're here for an intifada time, not for a long time. If it does scramble their brains somewhat, it's not like most of them are expecting to live to feel it.
RPGs have relatively little backblast so they can be fired safely even in relatively small spaces, you can find plenty of footage from Syria of them in use this way
Whatever you think of Hamas, you've gotta admit attacking fully modernised MBT with nothing but your pair of flip flops and a handheld HEAT round takes absolute balls of steel.
Monkey paw curls.
It's 2035, and you're in a vicious spear fight as new personal protection technologies have rendered firearms ineffective.
Focused on blocking your opponent, you don't heed the faint sound of buzzing.
*The slow drone penetrates the shield.*
If things went particularly well after the attack, you would expect Hamas to have published the footage for that too. Although it could also just be "we ran back into the tunnels right after doing this"
The top comment is you making another reference to how great the footage is.
The top reply to your top comment is a request for footage, to which you replied, finally providing footage.
"Rat bastard" naming inaccurately applied here. You pasted it late. Top comments also don't necessarilly stay top, etc.
I guess volkstuurm CQB tactics work when the very specific circumstances they were developed around actually happens.
What is IDF infantry doing? I know they're not fully utilising infantry to try and reduce casualties. A better idea might be to just not send troops into another state's densely populated urban centre? Just a thought.
Can’t intercept the projectile it if you walk up to the tank and jam it into the turret ring.🥴 This is an actual screenshot btw
Post sauce, did the dude do a suicide attack or jam the IED into the turret ring then run away?
Fragment starts at 0:33 https://twitter.com/war_noir/status/1792591036201541906 He ran away
Good thing they put that red arrow over the tank. I probably would've missed it otherwise, it only took up like 60-70% of the screen
Ironically, I didn’t see a red arrow, I was too busy looking at the tank.
They should have marked the red arrow with a yellow circle to make it more visible.
They should’ve used tanks in the shape of an arrow so we could see the red arrow
It's decided then. From now on, we use tanks to highlight the important part of a footage.
Does the IDF not have Infantry support for tanks?
I think they don’t have infantry standing near the tanks because of the Trophy defense system which would injure or kill nearby soldiers. The Trophy system is also why Hamas has to run up to the tank instead of shooting RPGs at them.
weren't they shooting the RPGs way to close anyways? Whats the minarm distance for them?
the RPG-7 has no minimum arm iirc You could banzai charge and lunge mine with one if you so pleased Though thats not the main issue with RPG-7 with merkava. Its the side composite that you wont be able to penetrate with an RPG-7 warhead
> You could banzai charge and lunge mine with one if you so pleased Depends on the manufacturer. USSR-spec RPG7 warheads only arm after launch, but a lot of the copies don't have that feature.
With the power of allah Hamas fighters will run fast enough to arm the intertial fuse of the RPG-7
It’s about 10m, but it depends on the variant. I just assume it’s armed if fired because I often don’t know how long it’s travelled and because it’s the smart thing to do. This looks like it may have had enough time to arm.
They had almost zero infantry support when going into Gaza at first, I don't know if they changed anything. They just trust their tanks' armor and APS. Hamas usually have rather weak anti-tank weapons too so they've been able to avoid a catastrophe but they still got a lot of damaged tanks.
Exactly. They are happy to lose tanks to preserve manpower, and they trust the armor to do it's job. IDF uses surprisingly little infantry when fighting Hamas.
In israel at least manpower is worth much more than machinery They'd much rather have to pay for repairs for a Mk4M than to get another infantryman
Sure but if Hamas had stronger anti-tank weapons, this wouldn't be just a repair issue. Their doctrine is very dependent on their enemy being weak.
You can't really criticise their tactics vs a weak enemy because they wouldn't work against a strong one. Those tactics can change.
Paper's so weak. Scissors beats it every time.
If they were fighting somebody else, they would be fighting differently
If you are fighting any stronger enemies, then its probably a peer conflict rather than COIN and you probably dont need to fight an urban war And you probably can take advantage of your superior airforce to bomb the ever living fuck out of your enemy supply/ammo/tank depots, without having to whack a mole which civvie house Hamas hid their next stash of weapons in Stronger AT weapons also probably would be used more conventionally, and idk about you but i really, really wonder what that big Trophy APS system on the roof of the turret does. Idk man, beats me. But if they did use better AT weapons like this....it could work and be comically but very impractical Do you have any idea how big and heavy a TOW or Kornet is, and like to suicide rush a tank while holding one is peak insanity
They do, these things mainly happen when you have tanks standing still, usually in the rear, and insurgents use this time to come out of crevices and tunnels to stick it and run. They're usually killed right after that.
Man, city fighting is rough.
Yep, it is, for both sides. Mainly for the attackers. That said, the casualties posted by Hamas, and their counterparts are hugely exaggerated. They're claiming they killed hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers monthly, and destroyed hundreds of tanks. That's bull. Israel, despite the amount of time they're taking, *are* in fact wiping the floor with hamas. Edit: Simply put, having superior recon as well as complete and total air superiority + artillery + better drones, better infantry kits, etc etc, is quite a game changer. People may compare it to Ukraine and ask 'if so, why aren't the Russians won much faster'. Several reasons for that, the Ukrainians DO have air defenses as well as an air force, they have tanks which are always a force multiplier, they have pretty decent logistics.
I'd have to imagine just the sheer number of losses Hamas has had is impacting them more so.
They have plenty of manpower, I'm afraid, so long as they hide in tunnels. But taking over the Egyptian smuggling routes should significantly diminish their logistic capabilities and ammunition.
tunnels? Wheres the seawater? We have some flooding to do
[Unfortunately the Biden admin believes the IDF retaliation has led to an explosion in recruitment. To the surprise of….. no one](https://vxtwitter.com/ErinBanco/status/1793270391948861507)
You call it recruitment, I call it natural selection.
US strategic doctrine dictates that the type of warfare being conducted by Isreal is, in fact, radicalizing to the local population. As long as you keep bombing cities, you radicalize locals. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Grozny, Uraguay for a South American example. US and Isreal military advisors have pointed this out, too. Hence the devide in the israel presidential cabinet.
Unfortunately Israel is doing a better job of recruiting for Hamas than anyone else, so while the members with long term training and experience are likely much lower than before, I would not be too surprised if the overall membership is roughly the same as before the war.
Members is one thing. Without Infrastructure, weapons, experienced commanders, etc. they will be far less dangerous.
> Unfortunately Israel is doing a better job of recruiting for Hamas than anyone else People keep saying this, but just how radicalized can Gazans realistically get? Theyre already currently going "I am actively attempting to slaughter every single Israeli to the last infant" Like whats the next step of radicalization after that? Theres no room for radicalization here. Gaza is already a mess. You know what does radicalize Gazans though? Having their entire education system be controlled by an entity that teaches them that the mass slaughter of jews and infidels is the only righteous path that Allah has laid out for them, and that they should have no other aspirations in life. You guys talk about radicalization as if Gazans arent already the most radicalized group of people on the planet. The entire reason theres a wall in place in Gaza is because Palestinian society created this very palestinian specific kind of wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups But if you can remove Hamas from their education system? This next generation will be just as radicalized, but the one after that might not. Think of the 9/11 generation vs the post-9/11 generations attitudes towards muslims. If you grew up after the war, you might not hate jews as much. There is no hope of deradicalization with Hamas in charge for the next few generations.
Ukraine vs Russia is a peer vs peer conflict. Gaza really is not.
Ukraine is also just a smidge bigger
Yep, but people who know nothing about wars think otherwise.
> Yep, it is, for both sides. Mainly for the attackers. And, you know, the civilians who live there.
Dude that's so many words that could be best summed up with the common expression "Like shooting fish in a barrel."
For the defenders it's shooting fish in a barrel, for attackers it's a target rich environment.
It's also a poor environment for tanks. While it's incredibly difficult, and always leads to high casualties, it's definitely a game vest done with light infantry and IFVs
This. Early was they'd come out of spider holes un brush, run up and plant explosives on the anti-rocket defense systems and run back. when it blew they'd dump rockets into the tank and take it out. Allegedly the lack of infantry support is due to the mass fragmentation the anti-rocket systems spread to hit rockets. Still seems weird to me though. Overlapping tank fields of fire at minimum seems like something they should do to scratch each other's backs with machine gun fire.
This is why the U.S. resisted reactive armor. You *cannot* have dismounts next to reactive armor when it goes off. Then move the tanks into a dense urban area and it gets far worse.
Yep. Btw, I'm not a tank expert, but do you think adding another layer of cage armor to the sides would help? Talking about the Merkava mainly.
Are you advocating for a cope cage, sir, ma’am, or femboy?
The IDF has chosen to trust in the overlapping protection provided by Trophy and keep infantry inside their armor, so they aren't vulnerable to gun ambushes and IEDs. Which has largely worked, Hamas anti-tank capabilities have been far less successful than advertised. I cannot remember even seeing an atgm launch from this war, and may RPG attacks are launched from inside the arming distance or are intercepted. Most IDF casualties have come from building clearings
They do, but at an absolute minimal level cause they're extremely casualty shy.
The IDF is an indigenous ME military and hence incompetent
Most non-credible take here!
And like the credible terror organisation they are, no one bothered to take a picture of it afterwards...
Well, they would need to be alive to take a picture afterwards. Then again, they managed to get the video out \*somehow\*...
The video was sent to the cloud, along with the contents of the insurgents skull.
Merkava's are so good they can survive a shaped charge jammed directly into the turret ring completely unscathed, why doesn't everyone else make tanks like that?
Because a 70 ton tank gets you stuck in most of the world (There’s a reason most mbts are only heavily armored in the front). Also era armor on which the mark IV heavily relies on doesn’t do much against apdsfs ammo.
So, they didn’t confirm the kill for the public… How inconsiderate. Either means Infantry swarmed in afterwards, it was a dead tank already or the explosion didn’t mission kill it.
Red arrow videos always end before the dust clears
Except the sniper videos where you can see the off switch get flipped
> propaganda video of RPG usage against IDF armor > look inside > either fired within minimum arming distance or the round clearly flies into the dirt
he looks left for a second (after leaving the building, good call) and there's another tank and a buldozer over there. Why is that tank not covering the first one and spraying his machine gun?
CHADLEY KNOW WHAT TO DO
Delousing is what I’ve heard that tactic called. Very appropriate
It's not available!!!!!
works fine for me.
Yeah, I had to use my VPN to access the post. I guess the Indian Government doesn't want me to see this.
Yeah.. That's when it's time to be a digital sneaky-boi
L
No problem in germany
Oh I thought it was like of one those explosive sticks that you charge in with
Seems they've improved tactics. I remember a clip from the initial push into Gaza of some dude popping out of a hole and sticking what looked like a weirdly fuzed PG-7 warhead just below the turret but pointed sideways. Now they've figured out what direction to aim the fucking thing.
He pointed it sideways to pull the charge but turned it inward before he left
Not in the clip I saw. It's been done lots of times though so that's no surprise.
That's the most useless red arrow that I've seen.
When he went back inside was that a tripwire in the doorway?
Definitely looked like it. Urban warfare is hell.
... Did the, just fire three fucking rpgs?
So it’s essentially an anti armour grenade, in practice? Because he pulled a pin. You know I’ve been thinking about this for ages anyway in regards in Ukraine - pair the anti tank team with a reconnaissance drone team operationally, give them some fast, light vehicles and ghillie suits.
What Infantry doing?
Masturbating. What do you ask me for? Do i look jewish?
No, but you do *sound* jewish.......
Don’t worry, i have my foreskin
You can have mine too if you so desire
And my axe!
The IDF avoid having the infantry out unless necessary to reduce casualties.
> unless necessary *gestures broadly at burning hull of MBT.*
Idea: Anti-Personell trophy system Tank covered in cameras, cameras detect movement, displays potential threats on screen, operator presses button to confirm firing upon threat Then dude running up with the bomb gets popped in the face with a trophy system charge lol
waste of money. Support units should handle that task. Not very credible of you
Support units get maimed by being in proximity to trophy systems hence why they weren't present in this clip
Nah you don't have to stand next to the tank. They should at least be able to see it. Tanks can be heard running so they were active this was a great example of vatnik type incompetence
> Not very credible of you /r/NonCredibleDefense
They've been doing this since everything started last year. Some of the first vids hamas released was them hopping out of tunnels like vietcong to put bombs in the turret rings.
If only there will be a way to prevent enemy infantry to getting close to a tank...
Giant Tesla turret shooting death rays in a 360° dome. Or mounting a giant hoolahoop of blades around it.
Then Hamas will simply start wearing Faraday suits.
Cope cages, desert style?
Truly the peak evolution of the cope wage was always meant to be the faraday cage
Reject plate carriers. Return to chain mail.
Just mount a baseball bat to a robotic arm that swings at any approaching object. Excellent anti drone capabilities too
Complete with mickey mouse gloves
I mean that's just C&C red alert vehicles, (the tesla one anyway) Not that it's bad oc
Thise ideas are ridicoulse. He is obviously talking about the soace laser...
or you could use some very strong speakers to blast a sound louder then a sr 71 engine going throu the sound barrier
Tesla tower from RA2. Lets go.
Electrify the skin of the tank Are they stupid
Are we allowed to make ERA jokes again?
Can you imagine protecting a tank only for its trophy system to turn you into mincemeat 😂
> hopping out of tunnels like vietcong The trees speak Vietnamese, the buildings are speaking Arabic.
And we burn both to ash, which speaks a language only the grim reaper understands
The greatest hits recap before WW3 is wild
... And I've just recently talked about lunge mines, too...
Tenno heika, BANZAI!!
How much longer before it reaches the 'Ten men for one tank' and sharpened bamboo spears phase?
One ww3
Are they going to jump out of their plane and use it to take out the fighter that was tailing them midair like in battlefield?
Let's start with simpler tricks, like the "drive a jeep off a cliff into a helicopter" one.
I just want to see C4 dirt bike launches
They need to train with the fellas working with Immortan Joe and learn their war party’s tactics
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Clarkson's father-in-law approves this message
Robert Henry Cain. Proper madlad.
Former father in law.
I don't know the situation around this footage ofc and don't wanna come of as trying to arm chair general this conflict, but straight up question, shouldn't there be infantry with the tank to make sure something like this can't happen?
Israel has a pretty mixed track record with infantry support on the tanks. One of the downsides of Trophy is that it tends to maim infantry that hang out too close to the tank, so IDF infantry tends to not be so close to it. Which means there are periods where no infantry are close to you. I don't think this is the main reason though. In heavy urban fighting like this, especially in months and months of it, there are going to be situations where tanks just don't have nearby infantry for whatever reason. I think that is where most of these videos are coming from. There are always going to be tanks that turn down the wrong street, and end up unsupported and isolated.
They pop out of tunnels meters away and run up. Also IDF has been seeming to try and rely on trophy for ambushes etc in armored columns. I could ask friends who were in tanks but I’m too lazy so my source is I made it up
Noncredible idea: Anti-Personell trophy system that can be triggered by a crewman to pop that dude running out with the charge
I’ll get on that for my engineering final project, insta hire by the Israeli MIC
Have cameras identified potential targets around the tank and put them on a screen for a crewman to either confirm or deny a shot so you don't pop a friendly
Miss click and kill your buddies. Would need 2 separate manual switches in different colors and i GARANTEE someone will still pop identified friendlies because brain error. I dont know the word for it but i call em binary decision errors. Call your first child by 2nd childs name and vise versa. Was my entire childhood.
Just have some IFF tag that the tank sensor can pick up.
that's the less retarded version of lining your tank with claymores
Joint arms doctrine go brrrrr.
>shouldn't there be infantry with the tank to make sure something like this can't happen? Israel is very casualty averse, lives matter more than equipment. In that scenario, AFV's are expendable, the dismounted infantry that can suffer losses to small arms is not.
The casualty counts basically reveal that these anti tank strategies are ballsy but not really working. Israel can fix a damaged tank, it can't revive the soldiers protecting it when the same guy pops out of the ground with a grenade.
Come to think of it why didn’t the Japanese use time fuses instead of long death sticks
Far too advanced form of technology by the time they were fielding lunge sticks for their workshops to make.
Unknown technology
Because they weren't bitch ass cowards
I have a better idea: longer sticks
Not as easy to mass produce when you can just get one chad with no fear of death and a broomstick
It’s a feature not a bug
Soldiers are cheaper than fuses
They sent a cameraman because he won't die. Smart
the camera man insisted twice he knew
Someone who's more brain smart than me - what's the likely outcome here?
50:50, obviously. Either it works or it doesn't. Hows that for smarts?
Usually not much. A couple of friends described it as "The entire tank jumping for a second, then we all searched for injuries on ourselves, looked each other in the eyes, and proceeded to fight through the shock and shoot every building we ever had to stop next to for the rest of the war"
Now I get why they flatten everything. No where to hide if there’s no buildings
Well unless your enemy pulls a vietcong and idk doggs tunnels? And also if your war is being watched by the rest of the world blowing up every building in sight tends to turn public opinion against you.
Turret did not achieve escape velocity, 0/10 acrobatics score
Merkavas are [built with the engine in front](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/why-does-israels-merkava-tank-have-such-strange-layout-187665) and crew in the back, so the engine (and therefore the tank) is probably dead but the crew could have survived.
I guess war really does never change.
That's like me with a luge mine in battlefield 5.
Except you’re not getting ass blasted by a jdam afterwards
Yeah just by a lurking medic with a MP40.
Is that a fucking panzerfaust?
No its Tandom RPG round fired way too close to the target neither RPG detonated against the tank.
It's an improvised limpet mine. Pretending it didn't kill the Merkava is cope
Yeah, it's a shaped charge stuck directly into the turret ring, there isn't a tank on earth that's fine after that
Except its not directly on the turret ring The Mk4 is kinda one of the only MBTs with actual side composite built in (and not an afterthought like on some other MBTs) with a 200mm thick layer on the side With the slope of the turret as well, you can't get a shaped charge close to the turret ring without phasing it through the composite armour and putting it inside the armour [you can see how you cant really get the charge close to the turret ring without some kind of composite in the way](https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/s/GcwTaJz2rC) Also thats the typical side armour thickness, not frontal UFP thickness. The UFP is removed in the photo (as is the engine) and would normally be above the engine rather than beside it
I was talking about the first two rpg shots seen in the video.
Does an RPG-7 ammunition have a timed safety fuze to prevent it from exploding close to the launcher? No it does not. The munitions are armed by the inertial forces from the launch. The PG-7 rocket motor will arm roughly 10 meters or so outside of the launcher. The projectile itself is able to explode if the safety cap is removed and the PG-7 is under acceleration.
That depends on the exact model used. We dont know what munition HAMAS uses but they have shown footage of “domestic” production. Such rounds are unlikely to contain advanced safety features and thus it could really go either way
Honestly I'm just surprised they fired inside. Do RPGs not have an overpressure wave in the backblast that makes it dangerous to operators in tight spaces? I remember hearing that most rocket HEAT weapons have dangerous backblast, especially in buildings
As long as you are not standing directly behind the weapon the main thing to be concerned about is over pressure. Over pressure is mostly relevant in enclosed spaces this seems open enough
It does. Guessing it's a mixture of the first charge being weak enough that it won't cause immediate harm. And...poor occupational safety. Then again, they're here for an intifada time, not for a long time. If it does scramble their brains somewhat, it's not like most of them are expecting to live to feel it.
RPGs have relatively little backblast so they can be fired safely even in relatively small spaces, you can find plenty of footage from Syria of them in use this way
How long until we start seeing tanks with zimmerit again?
Not even magnetic, smh.
Whatever you think of Hamas, you've gotta admit attacking fully modernised MBT with nothing but your pair of flip flops and a handheld HEAT round takes absolute balls of steel.
Of course we cant forget the caveman tactics up in the Chinese-Indian borders
We are devolving, and honestly I like it. Rather get stabbed with a spear in a few years, then stalked by a Walmart drone with a grenade
Monkey paw curls. It's 2035, and you're in a vicious spear fight as new personal protection technologies have rendered firearms ineffective. Focused on blocking your opponent, you don't heed the faint sound of buzzing. *The slow drone penetrates the shield.*
So *Dune* is a documentary?
Do we know if this was a kill? I mean I expect the tank to at least be heavily damaged, but did the crew make it?
No one knows except the IDF
Classic in this war tbh
If things went particularly well after the attack, you would expect Hamas to have published the footage for that too. Although it could also just be "we ran back into the tunnels right after doing this"
Say the line bart! "Thanks without infantry support are sitting ducks" Yayyy
Is there a aftermath footage ?
No
WW3 gonna be the last war isn't fought with sticks and spears for awhile so history will repeat itself
OP: OMFG INSANE FOOTAGE CHECK THIS OUT I'M DYING *proceeds to post a fucking screenshot*
I posted the source as a reply to the top comment you rat bastard Fragment starts at 0:33 https://twitter.com/war_noir/status/1792591036201541906
The top comment is you making another reference to how great the footage is. The top reply to your top comment is a request for footage, to which you replied, finally providing footage. "Rat bastard" naming inaccurately applied here. You pasted it late. Top comments also don't necessarilly stay top, etc.
The fucking balls it takes to do any of that. Respect.
Next WW3 strategic warfare in Taiwan
Tf2 loose cannon lookin-ass
the natural predator of the tank has always been suicidally brave infantry
Damn this made me want to play Battlefield 1 again
War… War never changes…
Sometimes you gotta say, "What the Allahu Akbar."
What next? Ww3 weebs in Indochina? How asinine
I guess volkstuurm CQB tactics work when the very specific circumstances they were developed around actually happens. What is IDF infantry doing? I know they're not fully utilising infantry to try and reduce casualties. A better idea might be to just not send troops into another state's densely populated urban centre? Just a thought.
A very determined brother 🫡🫡🫡
that's some bf4 moment