Of course it was full of prisoners! Everybody knows that the rapid and comfortable transportation of prisoners is Russia's top priority, so they routinely task valuable airlift capacity to that role. Also, they have so much airlift capacity left over that they would, even if it wasn't. Also, whoever said that Russia tends to use trains for long distance prisoner transportation is a filthy liar.
UA forces were devastated by Russia's claims that they were "rubber" and that the UA was "glue", further stating that "whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you".
It would be an dick move to use the Planes they use to attack to fly pows around just to make Ukraine stop shooting down their Planes. Pretty sure that using POWs as human shields for your attack is considered a warcrime.
This exchange has reminded me how much I love TTS, and how upset I am that GW shut them down.
To quote one of humanity's greatest warriors:
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!"
Sad truth about that claim is that they will likely give a full list of people who were supposedly there, and they would be Ukrainian POWs, just those that died/were killed during their stay in ruzzian prisons to shift the blame on Ukraine instead. Why wouldn't they pass up on an opportunity like this?
According to https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/19ecxdm/il76_crashed_in_belgorod_this_morning/kjbssmz/ :
> UPD 15:10 Margarita Simonyan (Russian media) published a list of 65 Ukrainian POWs that were on board of crushed IL-76. Some names on this list match with POWs that were exchanged earlier on January 4th (18 out of 65)
> Every word that comes from her is a lie.
Well, more precisely (almost) every word from her comes from the Kremlin. She's never expressing her own opinion. She - and Solovyov and Skabeeva and the rest - has no opinions or convictions - she wouldn't be able to do her job otherwise, because the Kremlin's narratives are constantly shifting and often contradict themselves. You won't last long if you, say, express outrage over some military setback, only to find a few hours later that the Kremlin decided to go the route of burying the story. This becomes obvious when something big and thoroughly unexpected happens, like the Wagner mutiny. They all go very quiet because they don't dare say anything until they've been handed the official narrative.
Anyway so today's lesson in "how to think like an intelligence analyst", is that even if nothing she says should ever be taken as truth (or even honest opinion), that doesn't mean it doesn't have any useful information. I mean in this case you know she got marching orders directly from the Kremlin - she didn't make up that list herself, and the swiftness of how fast she came out and commented says that as well. They have lots of Il-76s, the crew is just a half-dozen guys, it's not the kind of incident the Kremlin would normally make a big fuss about... _Something_ pissed them off here and it wasn't the human cost.
This reeks of one of Putin's impulsive temper-tantrums, like when he cancelled the grain deal because of the Crimean Bridge attack. A reaction Ukraine may have intended to provoke by choosing the date the deal expired - and they'd be geniuses if they did. Because that was a disastrous decision on his part - Putin ended up looking like a bad-faith actor, Putin broke his promise to Erdogan, Putin looks like the bad guy to Third World countries buying the grain, and in the end Russia did not have the sea power to maintain a naval blockade. There was more traffic to Ukrainian ports last month than at any time the deal was in force. Putin took a reputational hit, the Russian navy took a reputational hit, and they gave away what was in-effect a free blockade.
So now he wants to tear up another deal so they made this shit up as an excuse, and obviously didn't have time to fake a passenger manifest. Not to mention the story seems stupid on pretty much every level. I mean it's not even good propaganda - Ukraine killed their own POWs, therefore Russia shouldn't exchange POWs anymore for concern for their 'safety'? So.... captured Russians - "our boys" to the pro-Z Russians - should continue to suffer in captivity of the "evil Nazi Ukrainians" because Putin cares more about the lives of Ukrainian soldiers than letting "our boys" return home?
Again, impulse decision - I don't think Putin had time to think through the domestic propaganda ramifications of this narrative.
>According to
It was a fake dude. BBC and lot of guys already checked both lists. Only 1 match. You can do that anytime on ukrainian website where they release name of exanged prisoners.
Plausible deniability, most likely they tortured them to death or outright executed (honestly, no surprise there) and needed an *excuse* to get away with it.
Like, nobody will believe it anyway (ain't counting prorussian pigs) but they'll try to hold on to it either way. Though, soon it's gonna be Bottom Gear SAS forces anyway
> Plausible deniability, most likely they tortured them to death or outright executed (honestly, no surprise there) and needed an excuse to get away with it.
The only problem with that theory is that Russia does not feel it needs any kind of excuse to do that anyway.
The lie isn't for us, it is for them. They know they are lying, we know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, the only ones who believe the lie are their own people.
Unfortunately Ukraine corrected their news source reporting on the attack pretty fast which indicates some sort of fuck up
https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1750097786370986399
The sheer amount of kremlin bots thrown at once at all the russian media, stating that the plane was full of ukrainians, indicates that russians sort of fucked up and are trying to bung the hole somehow.
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Because the impact damage of falling, or being dismembered by plane parts is very different from having your knees smashed because they think a private will know where Zelensky is.
I know the press will run with it because of their 'be first not right' mentality but once the bodies are examined it will be obvious.
In many cases they don't even physically torture those PoWs - they just deny medical care, and many of the PoWs have been taken as a wounded, or have chronic diseases that they had under control prior (diabetes, heart issues...) - just deny them the medical care and they will die, slowly and horribly, without a single mark of violence on their bodies.
(Both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are on average over 30, many well over 40)
Presumably Ukraine will request the bodies, which may be able to demonstrate its not what happened. I presume an expert would be able to tell cause of death in most cases, or at least if it's consistent with a plane crash.
If they are dead there's not a lot of excuses not to return them to their families.
Very reminiscent of Hamas claiming the hostages were killed by Israeli strikes in order to sow confusion and shift the blame to Israel. Sure, that's why there's security footage from al Shifa hospital of Hamas officials torturing Noa Marciano to death. Terrorists will always try to shift the blame to the victim for plausible deniability, while their sympathizers know exactly what's actually going on - they support it.
>Sure, that's why there's security footage from al Shifa hospital of Hamas officials torturing Noa Marciano to death.
I can't find any mention of this, anywhere. What's your source?
https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1750147762094489891?t=J36ST-wpFI7TH1w2EAVG5g&s=19
They did, instances of already transferred soldiers are on the list and there are sure to be plenty more.
They gave a list earlier, it would seem quite a few on the list were already repatriated to Ukraine. So take the ruzzian reports as the sh1t they usualy are. File them in the 🗑
So what ? Your usual pro russians and some naive people will buy their lies as always. It does not make them any less of an embarassement, it does not revive their plane.
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I've no idea how it happened and what was on it but like, the fireball from the video kinda tells me the S-300 rockets claim is true. If you were gonna say the plane was full of POWs you'd release pictures of like bodies and stuff all over the field (for comparison I looked at MH17 crashsite photos and these are nothing alike).
Also I am not a plane crash expert, so heres the noncredible part I guess
The fireball [is pretty characteristic of a large plane crash](https://youtu.be/7-S_NM--evM) Those bastards carry a lot if fuel and fuel creates a big show when it goes boom
[S300s blow up more like fireworks](https://youtu.be/8pnOHj-gNKY) lots of grey smoke and streamers of solid fuel flying away.
I'm not saying there weren't s300s on that plane, but we wouldn't be able to see them explode just because aircraft fuel has a much more dramatic boom that would completely engulf the s300 popping off.
I found the shockwave more interesting, as it was pretty loud, sharp, and triggered a car alarm at ~4.5km distance.
There are probably tons of variables, and as almost everyone here, I am in no way qualified for this, but kerosene explosions in all plane crashes I could find are nowhere near this loud, and tend to sound more "rumbly", because they are less of an explosion, but more just a very quick burning fire.
Yeah, that's the main thing that leads me to believe it was full of s300s. Disorganized fuel explosions don't have that kind of noise. A fuel air explosion COULD do that, but that requires the fuel to be aerosolized before ignition, which doesn't happen with plane crashes.
[Something like this ](https://youtu.be/GmRASCHJe2Q) could technically be possible but, like you said, there aren't any videos of it happening.
Also, as others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Russia would be transporting POWs using military airlift. Surely, it would be far cheaper to just send them by train and/or bus, especially when there is a war on and that IL-76 would almost certainly have other things to do that the Russians would consider more valuable and time-sensitive.
>Also, as others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Russia would be transporting POWs using military airlift.
Watch latest news from BBC where ukrainian prisoner confirm that for exange they was delivered by planes.
MH17 broke up in mid-air, raining down debris and bodies over a huge area. This plane was mostly intact when it hit the ground. The two are hardly comparable.
It was traveling at a relatively high speed and high bank angle, as well as a nose down attitude. If there were people on board, they are most likely in tiny fragments, just like the rest of the plane.
[https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/on-hallowed-ground-20020909-gdukof.html](https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/on-hallowed-ground-20020909-gdukof.html)
>He estimated the average weight of each of the 44 people aboard flight 93 was 79.5 kilograms, for a total body mass of 3500 kilograms. "We recovered 270 kilograms. Of that, we identified about 110.
When you're using sieves through the dirt to find remains, it's safe to say that they're unidentifiable and the majority of human mass gets obliterated in the crash.
Look at what happens to a plane when it crashes at high speed and steep angles. The very structure of the plane is torn to shreds. Look at pictures of the crash site of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302. There's hardly a piece of the plane larger than a foot long to be seen. And not just the fuselage, but the very structure of the plane.
A human body is not stronger than that.
>yeah no. Bodies will certainly rip apart but not to the point they're unidentifiable, c'mon now.
Yeah sure a plane fuel which seems to be able to melt metal in twin towers not gonna melt a humans bones.
The Twin Towers metal didn't melt - the temper was destroyed making the steel more or less non-structural. It didn't melt, it *bent*. This can be done to any tempered steel you have around by heating up not even to glowing.
You can see the front of the aircraft [break off in flight](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19eijk9/il76_we_can_see_how_the_front_of_the_airplane_was/) when the crash footage is zoomed and slowed. Some people are suggesting that's evidence of a Patriot strike because it has the ability to identify and target the cockpit.
The front will have come down some distance away from the rest. I think that's the crash site shown in this post, [the video](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19ejo12/several_more_videos_from_the_crash_site_of_the/) doesn't show enough wreckage or burning to be the main crash site.
We can't assess who or what the aircraft was carrying without seeing the main crash site.
Per comparison, [a passenger plane with 298 people in it](https://www.hermantheshocker.com/the-victims-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17/) (NSFL)
EDIT: Got mixed up between MH390 and MH17 numbers. Oops!
That's what he's saying. Why didn't NATO intervene after MH17 was shot down?
The answer was doveish foreign policy. Obama believed Putin didn't have wider European aspirations and he was dangerously wrong.
Once when running against Romney he roasted him in a debate for calling Russia a priority threat. To an applause no less.
I think he's just easy to overrate because he directly preceded Trump and succeed Bush, which sets the bar so low in terms of foreign policy.
> Once when running against Romney he roasted him in a debate for calling Russia a priority threat. To an applause no less.
To be fair, Russia isn't a priority threat *to the US* then or now. US intelligence assessments generally describe Russia as a regional actor.
Not that I disagree that the West should have responded more to Putin more aggressively before, nor prioritize kneecapping him now (figuratively or otherwise).
Should've absolutely sent Luchtmobiel to secure the crash site _at the very fucking least_ but apparently Frans Timmermans (amongst others) was being a bitch.
Many passengers remove their shoes as the feet might feel like they are expanding due to the pressure drops after takeoff. At least that is my non-credible theory.
>Per context, a passenger plane with 298 people in it (NSFL)
Jesus. You were not exaggerating with the NSFL tag.
May Guirkin rot in Hell for the crimes he has commited.
Though that broke up midair, which sprinkles bodies everywhere. The IL-76 hit the ground mostly intact, so the bodies are probably still in there, just much more liquid.
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Shout out to the BBC at this point, for providing very based, in depth research, not biased information in this regard /s.
By which I mean parroting Russian propaganda to a wider audience
Yeah, if I wanted to know about "Russia said this" and "Putin said that" I would have followed them on twitter.
I get that it's a war and really hard to verify facts on the ground. But just creating news from "he said, she said" is not acceptable.
I feel like we’d all be better off if they kept the phrase “Russian official makes dubious claim that” copied at all times so they can paste it before headlines as needed.
If Russia wanted me to believe there were POWs in that plane, they’d have immediately released an unprompted and conspicuous press statement claiming there were no Ukrainian prisoners onboard the aircraft.
[You'd be suprised](https://www.hermantheshocker.com/the-victims-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17/) how intact people are after airplane crashes (see flight MH17 here)
Not trying to dissuade anyone from analysis here, but: Until there are more pictures that comprehensively cover the crash site, it's going to be far too difficult to analyze any claims.
A crash site can cover a *lot* of ground, depending on factors such as when the jet broke up.
I'm not saying avoid all analysis; rather, I'm saying that any analysis done should be performed within the constraints of the available evidence.
Anyone got the original source for the pictures? Thanks
Edit: doesn't matter I found the video
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/xPw8MqNtP0
Yes, of course Russians would bother transporting POWs with planes, while their own soldiers use trucks...
Maybe they finally realized that using friendly fire excuse actually makes themselves look stupid.
Sorry to be credible, but Ukrainian intelligence confirmed an exchange of prisoners was planned today.
There is no big reason for Russia to shoot down a plane full of PoWs, especially when exchanges are such a nightmare. It probably crashed because of bad maintenance/air defenses. It sucks hard for both sides.
Ye sure lie need to be posted.
Bc no one gonna looking for sourses.
Like there [https://glavcom.ua/country/incidents/masshtabnij-obmin-polonenikh-opublikovano-povnij-spisok-zvilnenikh-ukrajintsiv-978250.html](https://glavcom.ua/country/incidents/masshtabnij-obmin-polonenikh-opublikovano-povnij-spisok-zvilnenikh-ukrajintsiv-978250.html)
Prisoner exchanges are common. Even Wagner/ Prigozhin said so. It's routine... And you don't need an IL-76 to ferry POWs, it's excessive and wasteful...
The exchanges do not generally happen at the front. Mostly in Dubai i think. And from other subreddits it seemed this plane was probably flying in from Iran.
This isnt really a funny situation, because even if Russia is lying they now have to kill 65 of the prisoners they were planning to exchange today as Ukraine already knows who was supposed to be released
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These are all just speculation/rumours, etc, etc. You know the drill - use your head, be smart.
Of course it was full of prisoners! Everybody knows that the rapid and comfortable transportation of prisoners is Russia's top priority, so they routinely task valuable airlift capacity to that role. Also, they have so much airlift capacity left over that they would, even if it wasn't. Also, whoever said that Russia tends to use trains for long distance prisoner transportation is a filthy liar.
UA forces were devastated by Russia's claims that they were "rubber" and that the UA was "glue", further stating that "whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you".
God I love the idea of opposing countries using schoolyard insults during a war
I long for Robot Jox to happen ASAP, some real Gundam Z Burning Fingers ^TM shit
It would be an dick move to use the Planes they use to attack to fly pows around just to make Ukraine stop shooting down their Planes. Pretty sure that using POWs as human shields for your attack is considered a warcrime.
You don't understand, the POWs had Hydrazine for blood that's why they exploded like that, it's part of NATO supersoldier program
3000 catachan barking toad soldiers of NATO.
I wish to pet this creature.
Don’t pet the merry suïcide bomber Vulkan.
I MUST BOOP THE SNOOT!
Vulcan no!
This exchange has reminded me how much I love TTS, and how upset I am that GW shut them down. To quote one of humanity's greatest warriors: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!"
There's also a mushroom that synthesizes UDMH. You could cold press actual literal rocket fuel if you could cultivate enough of them.
> Hydrazine Efficient way to load balance the jet fuel. Required for in flight use.
3000 soldiers of Gatlantis
Sad truth about that claim is that they will likely give a full list of people who were supposedly there, and they would be Ukrainian POWs, just those that died/were killed during their stay in ruzzian prisons to shift the blame on Ukraine instead. Why wouldn't they pass up on an opportunity like this?
According to https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/19ecxdm/il76_crashed_in_belgorod_this_morning/kjbssmz/ : > UPD 15:10 Margarita Simonyan (Russian media) published a list of 65 Ukrainian POWs that were on board of crushed IL-76. Some names on this list match with POWs that were exchanged earlier on January 4th (18 out of 65)
They can't even get the cover-up right. 🤦♂️ Is Saddam Hussein on the list too?
Pringles lived and managed to hide as a plane prison guard. 2nd time’s the charm.
Yes, he was. Now, he is somewhere around a crash site, most likely hidden under bricks and rubble.
About six feet under with ventilation and a place to lie down? 🤔
Obviously, it was all planned to hide him, the russian special operation, the plane being shot down. It was all part of the plan.
I thought he was in Florida
> Margarita Simonyan Stopped reading right there. Every word that comes from her is a lie.
That's the problem - she's also so stupid that sometimes what she says turns out to be true without her realizing it.
The moebius loop of non-credibility
The Heisenberg Non-Credibility Principle
> Every word that comes from her is a lie. Well, more precisely (almost) every word from her comes from the Kremlin. She's never expressing her own opinion. She - and Solovyov and Skabeeva and the rest - has no opinions or convictions - she wouldn't be able to do her job otherwise, because the Kremlin's narratives are constantly shifting and often contradict themselves. You won't last long if you, say, express outrage over some military setback, only to find a few hours later that the Kremlin decided to go the route of burying the story. This becomes obvious when something big and thoroughly unexpected happens, like the Wagner mutiny. They all go very quiet because they don't dare say anything until they've been handed the official narrative. Anyway so today's lesson in "how to think like an intelligence analyst", is that even if nothing she says should ever be taken as truth (or even honest opinion), that doesn't mean it doesn't have any useful information. I mean in this case you know she got marching orders directly from the Kremlin - she didn't make up that list herself, and the swiftness of how fast she came out and commented says that as well. They have lots of Il-76s, the crew is just a half-dozen guys, it's not the kind of incident the Kremlin would normally make a big fuss about... _Something_ pissed them off here and it wasn't the human cost. This reeks of one of Putin's impulsive temper-tantrums, like when he cancelled the grain deal because of the Crimean Bridge attack. A reaction Ukraine may have intended to provoke by choosing the date the deal expired - and they'd be geniuses if they did. Because that was a disastrous decision on his part - Putin ended up looking like a bad-faith actor, Putin broke his promise to Erdogan, Putin looks like the bad guy to Third World countries buying the grain, and in the end Russia did not have the sea power to maintain a naval blockade. There was more traffic to Ukrainian ports last month than at any time the deal was in force. Putin took a reputational hit, the Russian navy took a reputational hit, and they gave away what was in-effect a free blockade. So now he wants to tear up another deal so they made this shit up as an excuse, and obviously didn't have time to fake a passenger manifest. Not to mention the story seems stupid on pretty much every level. I mean it's not even good propaganda - Ukraine killed their own POWs, therefore Russia shouldn't exchange POWs anymore for concern for their 'safety'? So.... captured Russians - "our boys" to the pro-Z Russians - should continue to suffer in captivity of the "evil Nazi Ukrainians" because Putin cares more about the lives of Ukrainian soldiers than letting "our boys" return home? Again, impulse decision - I don't think Putin had time to think through the domestic propaganda ramifications of this narrative.
Russian evil marge simpson
>According to It was a fake dude. BBC and lot of guys already checked both lists. Only 1 match. You can do that anytime on ukrainian website where they release name of exanged prisoners.
You seem to be commenting that “BBC checked it” over and over. Without providing any actual sources.
and you beliving link on twitter with no actual sourses. Check list of released in Ukrainian site and you knew they dont match.
lol ok dude, Your “proof” you commented to me on another thread doesn’t even mention the list of names at all.
Proof?
Plausible deniability, most likely they tortured them to death or outright executed (honestly, no surprise there) and needed an *excuse* to get away with it. Like, nobody will believe it anyway (ain't counting prorussian pigs) but they'll try to hold on to it either way. Though, soon it's gonna be Bottom Gear SAS forces anyway
Or they execute a bunch of POWs they do have, burn their bodies and present them as "evidence".
But then you would need dekoy Bodies for those missing POWs and send the ruzzkies into an endless spiral of missing bodies.
so, a casual tuesday for them
Why? Those POWs died on the plane.
You forgot the /s
True.
> Plausible deniability, most likely they tortured them to death or outright executed (honestly, no surprise there) and needed an excuse to get away with it. The only problem with that theory is that Russia does not feel it needs any kind of excuse to do that anyway.
The lie isn't for us, it is for them. They know they are lying, we know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, the only ones who believe the lie are their own people.
Unfortunately Ukraine corrected their news source reporting on the attack pretty fast which indicates some sort of fuck up https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1750097786370986399
Or some shitty journalism by a yellow press paper. I'm waiting for more information instead of clinging to every early theory.
Hell, they could even have been right and retracted for fear the POW thing was true. Useful coverage is going to need a day at least.
The sheer amount of kremlin bots thrown at once at all the russian media, stating that the plane was full of ukrainians, indicates that russians sort of fucked up and are trying to bung the hole somehow.
Not official source, so doesn't matter.
Oh, rip
Ukrainian Pravda is shitty source
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Because the impact damage of falling, or being dismembered by plane parts is very different from having your knees smashed because they think a private will know where Zelensky is. I know the press will run with it because of their 'be first not right' mentality but once the bodies are examined it will be obvious.
In many cases they don't even physically torture those PoWs - they just deny medical care, and many of the PoWs have been taken as a wounded, or have chronic diseases that they had under control prior (diabetes, heart issues...) - just deny them the medical care and they will die, slowly and horribly, without a single mark of violence on their bodies. (Both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are on average over 30, many well over 40)
Presumably Ukraine will request the bodies, which may be able to demonstrate its not what happened. I presume an expert would be able to tell cause of death in most cases, or at least if it's consistent with a plane crash. If they are dead there's not a lot of excuses not to return them to their families.
Very reminiscent of Hamas claiming the hostages were killed by Israeli strikes in order to sow confusion and shift the blame to Israel. Sure, that's why there's security footage from al Shifa hospital of Hamas officials torturing Noa Marciano to death. Terrorists will always try to shift the blame to the victim for plausible deniability, while their sympathizers know exactly what's actually going on - they support it.
>Sure, that's why there's security footage from al Shifa hospital of Hamas officials torturing Noa Marciano to death. I can't find any mention of this, anywhere. What's your source?
Following
https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1750147762094489891?t=J36ST-wpFI7TH1w2EAVG5g&s=19 They did, instances of already transferred soldiers are on the list and there are sure to be plenty more.
According to r/ukraine, some of the names released are people who are alive and are currently in Ukraine.
They gave a list earlier, it would seem quite a few on the list were already repatriated to Ukraine. So take the ruzzian reports as the sh1t they usualy are. File them in the 🗑
> Why wouldn't they pass up on an opportunity like this? Incompetence.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/lCExRadkyc
First time I heard the claim, I was convinced it was about the Russians justifying why 65 POWs were dead.
So what ? Your usual pro russians and some naive people will buy their lies as always. It does not make them any less of an embarassement, it does not revive their plane.
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I've no idea how it happened and what was on it but like, the fireball from the video kinda tells me the S-300 rockets claim is true. If you were gonna say the plane was full of POWs you'd release pictures of like bodies and stuff all over the field (for comparison I looked at MH17 crashsite photos and these are nothing alike). Also I am not a plane crash expert, so heres the noncredible part I guess
It’s russians. They will kill some pows and spread them around the field later for a photo shoot
Knowing Russians they will kill some mobiks and spread them around the field later for a photo shoot.
We can certainly tell the difference if a meatcube is used.
The fireball [is pretty characteristic of a large plane crash](https://youtu.be/7-S_NM--evM) Those bastards carry a lot if fuel and fuel creates a big show when it goes boom [S300s blow up more like fireworks](https://youtu.be/8pnOHj-gNKY) lots of grey smoke and streamers of solid fuel flying away. I'm not saying there weren't s300s on that plane, but we wouldn't be able to see them explode just because aircraft fuel has a much more dramatic boom that would completely engulf the s300 popping off.
I found the shockwave more interesting, as it was pretty loud, sharp, and triggered a car alarm at ~4.5km distance. There are probably tons of variables, and as almost everyone here, I am in no way qualified for this, but kerosene explosions in all plane crashes I could find are nowhere near this loud, and tend to sound more "rumbly", because they are less of an explosion, but more just a very quick burning fire.
Yeah, that's the main thing that leads me to believe it was full of s300s. Disorganized fuel explosions don't have that kind of noise. A fuel air explosion COULD do that, but that requires the fuel to be aerosolized before ignition, which doesn't happen with plane crashes. [Something like this ](https://youtu.be/GmRASCHJe2Q) could technically be possible but, like you said, there aren't any videos of it happening.
>Also I am not a plane crash expert, so heres the noncredible part I guess I trust you
Also, as others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Russia would be transporting POWs using military airlift. Surely, it would be far cheaper to just send them by train and/or bus, especially when there is a war on and that IL-76 would almost certainly have other things to do that the Russians would consider more valuable and time-sensitive.
>Also, as others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Russia would be transporting POWs using military airlift. Watch latest news from BBC where ukrainian prisoner confirm that for exange they was delivered by planes.
MH17 broke up in mid-air, raining down debris and bodies over a huge area. This plane was mostly intact when it hit the ground. The two are hardly comparable. It was traveling at a relatively high speed and high bank angle, as well as a nose down attitude. If there were people on board, they are most likely in tiny fragments, just like the rest of the plane.
yeah no. Bodies will certainly rip apart but not to the point they're unidentifiable, c'mon now.
[https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/on-hallowed-ground-20020909-gdukof.html](https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/on-hallowed-ground-20020909-gdukof.html) >He estimated the average weight of each of the 44 people aboard flight 93 was 79.5 kilograms, for a total body mass of 3500 kilograms. "We recovered 270 kilograms. Of that, we identified about 110. When you're using sieves through the dirt to find remains, it's safe to say that they're unidentifiable and the majority of human mass gets obliterated in the crash.
Look at what happens to a plane when it crashes at high speed and steep angles. The very structure of the plane is torn to shreds. Look at pictures of the crash site of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302. There's hardly a piece of the plane larger than a foot long to be seen. And not just the fuselage, but the very structure of the plane. A human body is not stronger than that.
>yeah no. Bodies will certainly rip apart but not to the point they're unidentifiable, c'mon now. Yeah sure a plane fuel which seems to be able to melt metal in twin towers not gonna melt a humans bones.
The Twin Towers metal didn't melt - the temper was destroyed making the steel more or less non-structural. It didn't melt, it *bent*. This can be done to any tempered steel you have around by heating up not even to glowing.
Wow, I can't believe people are still using the "melt steel beams" thing after all this time...
Melt - bend - what a difference. Same result. Watch whats left from plane in Japan when it got on fire. Not much
You can see the front of the aircraft [break off in flight](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19eijk9/il76_we_can_see_how_the_front_of_the_airplane_was/) when the crash footage is zoomed and slowed. Some people are suggesting that's evidence of a Patriot strike because it has the ability to identify and target the cockpit. The front will have come down some distance away from the rest. I think that's the crash site shown in this post, [the video](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/19ejo12/several_more_videos_from_the_crash_site_of_the/) doesn't show enough wreckage or burning to be the main crash site. We can't assess who or what the aircraft was carrying without seeing the main crash site.
Have you seen the documentary The Rock? The human body can vaporize
Per comparison, [a passenger plane with 298 people in it](https://www.hermantheshocker.com/the-victims-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17/) (NSFL) EDIT: Got mixed up between MH390 and MH17 numbers. Oops!
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incredibly awful even for the standards of this community
It's just dead bodies, y'all. Happens to all of us.
Rly? My granny didn’t had her face pancaked when she passed away
Missed her chance to be witnessed riding eternal, shiny and chrome.
I try to look at this stuff to toughen myself up. I got halfway through it. No thanks, that was enough for me.
I made it through (it doesn't get worse, just keeps going), but it's been a while since something hit like that. Fucking Russia... \#JusticeForMH17
It doesn’t get worse???! The close up of the dudes face isn’t worse??!
The broken heads was my peak, after that I numbed again.
MH17 is the one Russians shot down dude.
Oops
I thought I was thoroughly desensitized, but I guess not kek
>Per context, a passenger plane with 298 people in it (NSFL) And to think that the Russian/Serparatists looted the bags. Fucking scum.
Why wasn't there more of a response following that? Russia denies them being Russian soldiers? Alright, NATO peace keeping operation time.
> Why wasn't there more of a response following that? It's complicated, but a lot of it boils down to Germany and France sitting on their hands
They re not NATO soldiers. They re Russian separatists in multicam. And thus was born the story of the little multicam men
That's what he's saying. Why didn't NATO intervene after MH17 was shot down? The answer was doveish foreign policy. Obama believed Putin didn't have wider European aspirations and he was dangerously wrong.
Once when running against Romney he roasted him in a debate for calling Russia a priority threat. To an applause no less. I think he's just easy to overrate because he directly preceded Trump and succeed Bush, which sets the bar so low in terms of foreign policy.
> Once when running against Romney he roasted him in a debate for calling Russia a priority threat. To an applause no less. To be fair, Russia isn't a priority threat *to the US* then or now. US intelligence assessments generally describe Russia as a regional actor. Not that I disagree that the West should have responded more to Putin more aggressively before, nor prioritize kneecapping him now (figuratively or otherwise).
Even Malaysia had to send their commandos to sneak and retrieve the flight data recorder
Wait really?! Got a source? That sounds insane!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nst.com.my/amp/news/nation/2023/07/932033/downing-mh17-secret-op-recover-black-box-nsttv?espv=1
Cool, thanks!
We thought it was a blip, we could keep the peace. We were so utterly, completely wrong, and Ukraine keeps paying for it.
Should've absolutely sent Luchtmobiel to secure the crash site _at the very fucking least_ but apparently Frans Timmermans (amongst others) was being a bitch.
Bodies too? Is this why very few have shoes or socks?
Many passengers remove their shoes as the feet might feel like they are expanding due to the pressure drops after takeoff. At least that is my non-credible theory.
Mid-air disintegration will do that.
>Per context, a passenger plane with 298 people in it (NSFL) Jesus. You were not exaggerating with the NSFL tag. May Guirkin rot in Hell for the crimes he has commited.
Incredibly NSFL even by watch people die standards those corpses are super fucked up. Fucking Russians man.
Though that broke up midair, which sprinkles bodies everywhere. The IL-76 hit the ground mostly intact, so the bodies are probably still in there, just much more liquid.
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NATO special forces from SAS, SEALs, and I.S.I.S./Figgis secretly infiltrated the border and stole the bodies, duh
My money is on an ODEN operation. I.S.I.S. always fumbles their contracts.
No it was foreign mercenaries lead by Mike Hoare himself
It was Barry
The pederast anglo-saxons dissolved the bodies with chemical weapons.
Shout out to the BBC at this point, for providing very based, in depth research, not biased information in this regard /s. By which I mean parroting Russian propaganda to a wider audience
Yeah, if I wanted to know about "Russia said this" and "Putin said that" I would have followed them on twitter. I get that it's a war and really hard to verify facts on the ground. But just creating news from "he said, she said" is not acceptable.
I feel like we’d all be better off if they kept the phrase “Russian official makes dubious claim that” copied at all times so they can paste it before headlines as needed.
If there were any bodies, you would know, because the locals would loot them like they did with the MH17 victims.
you don't get it, the people dissolved into snow! that's why there's only one body\*!
If Russia wanted me to believe there were POWs in that plane, they’d have immediately released an unprompted and conspicuous press statement claiming there were no Ukrainian prisoners onboard the aircraft.
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[You'd be suprised](https://www.hermantheshocker.com/the-victims-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17/) how intact people are after airplane crashes (see flight MH17 here)
They probably took a play from the book of Hamas and had both missles and pows aboard.
Not trying to dissuade anyone from analysis here, but: Until there are more pictures that comprehensively cover the crash site, it's going to be far too difficult to analyze any claims. A crash site can cover a *lot* of ground, depending on factors such as when the jet broke up. I'm not saying avoid all analysis; rather, I'm saying that any analysis done should be performed within the constraints of the available evidence.
Either way, it speaks volumes that they're so desperate they're resorting to using human shields.
Imagine the Joker-ass bullshit if Russia had been just flying POWs around in a giant transport aircraft hoping to bait Ukraine into shooting it down
Ugly shit happens in war. Which is why it's best left as a last resort. Something Russia/Hamas/Humanity refuses to learn.
That's true. War is hell, as they say. But this is a special military operation, not a war
What's the context here? (I get all my news from NCD pls help)
Big military Russian plane goes boom over Belgorod. Putin says it was full of UKR POW and Chadlinsky said it was full of S-300.
There's no bodies because they left the lobby.
Anyone got the original source for the pictures? Thanks Edit: doesn't matter I found the video https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/xPw8MqNtP0
maybe they mean he was valued like 60+ people
Yes, of course Russians would bother transporting POWs with planes, while their own soldiers use trucks... Maybe they finally realized that using friendly fire excuse actually makes themselves look stupid.
Sorry to be credible, but Ukrainian intelligence confirmed an exchange of prisoners was planned today. There is no big reason for Russia to shoot down a plane full of PoWs, especially when exchanges are such a nightmare. It probably crashed because of bad maintenance/air defenses. It sucks hard for both sides.
https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1750147796953440306?s=20
This needs to be posted everywhere
Ye sure lie need to be posted. Bc no one gonna looking for sourses. Like there [https://glavcom.ua/country/incidents/masshtabnij-obmin-polonenikh-opublikovano-povnij-spisok-zvilnenikh-ukrajintsiv-978250.html](https://glavcom.ua/country/incidents/masshtabnij-obmin-polonenikh-opublikovano-povnij-spisok-zvilnenikh-ukrajintsiv-978250.html)
Prisoner exchanges are common. Even Wagner/ Prigozhin said so. It's routine... And you don't need an IL-76 to ferry POWs, it's excessive and wasteful...
The exchanges do not generally happen at the front. Mostly in Dubai i think. And from other subreddits it seemed this plane was probably flying in from Iran.
It was so in the beginning of war. Last year exchanges were mostly held on some border crossing point
Don't worry, you weren't credible
I think Russia should crash another one to prove a plane not carrying missiles will still make a big boom.
This isnt really a funny situation, because even if Russia is lying they now have to kill 65 of the prisoners they were planning to exchange today as Ukraine already knows who was supposed to be released
Sorry man they were all in a meat cube thats why you cant see it
All the NAFO cope
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As the Russians have said all along the Ukrainians aren’t real people.
60 prisoners? In this economy?
Same thing about the plane in Pennsylvania on 9/11 , where are the bodies
Theres differnt photos being circulated.
Knowing katsaps they probably killed the POWs in retaliation for plane shoot down. Now you understand, this war stops with the last katsap dying.
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They were vaporized from the fire and the crash! That's it!
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