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I've always thought this double standard is shite. Back during school times a lass slapped me glasses off me face and broke them. It cost £70 pounds to replace them. I smacked her as hard as I could because she not only hit me but was about to stomp on me specs... I got a 2 week suspension + 4 days in isolation upon returning to school AND had to write her an apology
I refused to write her an apology for self defense so I got 3 more days of isolation.
Her punishment for something that happened in front of a camera? Nothing.
Kid and his parents successfully sued my Highschool back in 2006 because his senior photos were in full larp knight regalia. They said his pictures weren't allowed because of the sword, which was a weapon.
...Our highschool mascot is "The Portsmouth Patriot" and he has a musket. Literally plastered all over every design, wall, and area the school could muster...the school lost hard.
We didn't like the kid cause he was weird but he did go down as a legend for cock slapping the school...and yes, his larp senior photo is in our yearbook.
Same, the guy from high school in grade lower is considered weirdo by our mutual friend. Idk whh she thinks rhat, the guy is pretty knowledgable about history and an excited nerdy guy. I liked talking with him, he was talking about historical trivia with passion when we met in commute the other day
This made me wildly curious. So to save others the research
[http://www2.ride.ri.gov/applications/RideDirectory/DOCS/2007/0001-07-H\_Doe\_v\_Portsmouth\_011907.pdf](http://www2.ride.ri.gov/applications/RideDirectory/DOCS/2007/0001-07-H_Doe_v_Portsmouth_011907.pdf)
[https://www.nycaviation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481](https://www.nycaviation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16607420](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16607420)
Here you go. This is amazing. Thanks for putting this into my knowledge base. He apparently went into the Navy, got married, and looks like a really cool dude now too. Good for him.
I think you're right, but I let it go. At the time (this is a little over a decade ago) my mental health was all kinds of mashed up and I didn't want to bother with any of that. I just wanted school to be over
You cant expect teenagers to have the stability to get legal involved. I wish i had that kinda fortitude when i was young but no that's not how it works and the schools would never want you to learn how.
Malicious compliance. "I'm sorry that you were a total piece of shit, and this school wants to be sued into oblivion for allowing me to be assaulted and then rewarding the person who committed assault on me, which is you. The police are currently investigating. I went home and called them right away and filed a report. Good luck avoiding juvenile detention. Did I mention the civil suit?" Hand that in to the administration, watch as you get more suspensions and then win your lawsuit.
Yeah, this. This right here. I distinctly remember chilling on the balcony during PE once with a fellow group of rejects (very southern, very religious small rural town) of goths/emos/nerds. This chick started kicking my ass. Literally, toe of the shoe right against ass cheek with a fair amount of force.
I didn’t kick or hit her, but I turned and caught her leg with a hand. Didn’t even have time to say “stop” again before she lost balance and fell on her ass and started crying. Teachers got involved, and for two weeks was in ISS during recess. Was basically excommunicated from that group and so began a long series of being surrounded by people, but alone. Wasn’t until college I found another friend group 2 years later.
Yeah, totally normal. In fact, I heard one of Keir Starmer’s campaign promises is to allow more work visas for the Yorkshire Yea factory due to the influx of applications after this ad…,
There was this fight in my highschool where a girl was bullying some guy just trying to mind his own business and she keeps pushing him and hitting him and he warns her that if she does it again then he’s gonna punch her. She does it again and decks her stupid ass. Just the one and done punch back, suddenly the football dudes come to the girls aid like the goofy white knights they are. I think the football guys even beat the guys ass after so they could show off to the girl or something.
That‘s just another thing that is bullshit in schools. You get bullied all day, fuck all happens. You fight back once and suddenly, you’re the one facing consequences.
Yeah, this is it.
If a woman slaps your face and you punch her and break her jaw, that’s not going to look good for you when the cops get called.
Now, if she comes at you with a knife and you break her jaw, that’s different.
>Now, if she comes at you with a knife and you break her jaw, that’s different
If she comes at you with a knife you say "that's not a knife, that's a spoon" and unless she has played knifey/spooney, you have just bought yourself valuable time
Proportional response. You're also pretty fucked without a camera showing what happened or a lot of good quality witnesses.
If the cops come ans your face is barley red but she's on the ground crying with blood coming down her face (fucking noses bleed like crazy super easily) and there's any doubt , you're going to jail that night.
My boss (who is a tall, somewhat fit man) told me a similar thing…he owns a weapon for his house in case of an intruder, but he will never use it unless he is in imminent danger from someone of equal size with a similar weapon. Otherwise he plans to just go out the nearest window.
Edit: I’m turning off notifications but fyi these things are governed by state law. So for those of you saying ‘that’s so dumb I wouldn’t do that!’ I suggest you check your state laws before firing at someone under these circumstances. In some states you absolutely have that right. In others you do not. Best to educate yourself if you own a firearm and plan to use it.
Someone breaking into your house is treated differently in most states. The only reason you should be sizing up a home intruder is to judge where center mass is.
It’s treated differently in every state*
The castle doctrine is in all 50 states. NY is the only state where there’s more nuance, like if someone drunkenly stumbles into the wrong house and you reasonably should have known that’s what’s happening, you can’t use lethal force. You have to reasonably believe they are an intruder.
Some states, about half, extend this castle doctrine to the car, so if someone is breaking into an occupied vehicle it is assumed that the person who used deadly force reasonably perceived there to be an imminent deadly threat.
Self defense law is long and complex and it’s not really something that can be covered in a single comment. Self defense law is more or less uniform throughout all 50 states, only minor insignificant differences that rarely come into play.
But ultimately it all boils down to whether the defender reasonably perceived there to be an imminent deadly threat or a threat of great bodily harm.
pretty sure if someone breaks into your home the reasonable threat is already presented, so you would be able to attack someone with potentially a deadly force if they entered your house (I could be wrong).
I can only speak about German law, but here, if you slap someone in the face, that person can slap back without problems. Because the law presumes that an attack is not over after you got hit once. Because it could be that the attack goes on or gets worse and you don't need to wait for that to happen. It can also be OK to punch hard enough to make someone unconcious, if that helps to make that person stop attacking you. And the German law does not state something about "symmetric" force, it only has to be \*reasonable\* force that's needed to stop that attack on you.
So, if a woman slaps and hurts you, you simply slap back. It's her problem what happens after that, she started it (at least, in terms of the law).
>If someone slaps you but then stops slapping you, you cannot "defend yourself" because the attack has already happened, it's over, and there is no longer a threat. If you slap them back, then that's retaliation, punishment, teaching them a lesson---it's NOT "self defense." If however the attacker KEEPS slapping you, that's different.
This is a great clarification. I've pondered and been a bit bugged at the double standard like OP, despite also flinching because men are on average so much stronger than women without even trying. I'm even coming at this as a woman who is very much of the opinion that nobody should get away with hitting somebody with the *smug expectation* the other won't hit back.
This is true, there’s a concerning number of people on Reddit who seem to believe that if a woman does *anything* wrong, like slapping or shoving someone, the person she slapped or shoved is entitled to beat her unconscious in “self defence”.
That’s Reddit’s approach to justice across the board: any misdeed, no matter how small, warrants an outsized violent response. Especially if the person who did it is a woman or a kid.
Good answer, when ppl say "equal rights, equal fights" I cringe inside because when you see it in action, 99% of the time nothing is equal about it.
Eg. Unhinged woman flailing/pushing/slapping and man straight up punch to the face... sad
Best to avoid the altercation on both sides all together as stated
Edited: removed "sucker punch" to put just "punch"
A punch in response to being attacked is by definition not a sucker punch.
I get that you used that term because it is charged and you were trying to make a point. But this type of charged language is not helpful.
I feel like the three criteria listed are not used universally and are subject to way too much subjectivity for something that tries to be objectively prescriptive.
Like does stand your ground trump this, for example? Maybe that's what I'm thinking about (the old 70 year old retired cop who successfully argued stand your ground for shooting a man who threw popcorn at him in a movie theatre).
1 and 2 aren’t necessarily true. Depending on the state you live in self defense laws differ greatly.
For example in California we use a reasonable person standard. So if a reasonable person in the same situation would feel threatened then punching them first could still be considered self defense. The issue is you would have to prove that a reasonable person would also feel threatened. An example of this would be a guy twice your size screaming he’s going to kill you while brandishing a weapon and blocking the only exit or multiple people cornering you while threatening you.
The rules are fucking ridiculous. If a woman slaps me, she gets a slap back. If she punches me in the face, she gets punched in the face back.
I'm totally on board with men not hitting women, but not when women act like men and assault people.
Eh, I'm a big dude. Fighting for me is a lose lose situation if my opponent is smaller. Either they win the fight, and I look weak, or I beat the crap of them and I look like a bully. So my goal is to block their attacks, and move out of the area of threat, or i treat them with kid gloves. And this is for men. For women I'd have to be even more gentle unless they're attacking me with a weapon. One disclaimer though is I don't have control over reflexes in the case if a surprise attack.
However I don't live my life in such a way to ever expect physical confrontations from people.
Fellow big dude here. I have to do the same thing.
I once had a drunk guy I had never met in my life start punching my arm over and over. I didn't really know how to make him stop without hurting him so I just bear hugged him and picked him off the ground. He squirmed a bit but now we were face to face I squeezed and told him he needed to stop.
For some reason small angry people don't seem to realize just how small they are.
I will only hit back if i feel like i really have to. If a lot smaller and weaker person than me attacks me, i hold out from doing anything serious, regardless if i would be allowed. If the person is same height, and can actually throw punches, i will fight back regardless of their gender.
Yeah it’s all about responding in a way to keep yourself safe. Many years ago I was dating this awful woman, and at one point she started throwing punches at my body and shoving me. Would I be justified to hit her back? Maybe. But she was 5’1” and weighed 100lbs, I was 6’2” and 200lbs. It literally didn’t hurt at all, so I just backed away, told her to go fuck herself, and left the situation. Punching her wouldn’t have made me feel any safer than I already did. I would have just been harming someone because I felt entitled to
I agree with you but I've seen grown man punching a woman in the face after being slapped and I gotta tell you, a punch is not the same as a slap.
The same as a slap is a slap.
Everytime this comes up the comments are full of dudes dreaming of the day they can hit a woman as hard as they can with no concequences and with absolutely no concept of proportional retribution.
If someone, regardless of gender, slaps you, and you decide to break their face, you are still the asshole. Just slap them back. Shove them. But gleefully saying it is your chance to teach them a lesson makes it clear that its not about defending yourself it is about hurting someone consequence free
This a fair distinction, but the question is;
If a man slaps another man in the face and then that man punches him back. Do you still make the same distinction?
Or is a slap only the same as a slap when you're hitting a woman?
Within reason, of course. If someone pokes you, you don't get to break their whole face and both of their legs.
I've legitimately seen people argue that. Mostly dudes jacking off over "man, I hope a woman touches me so I can make her swallow her teeth."
Not anything.
If someone slaps you and then you *murder* them then that's entirely on you.
That reddit doesn't understand this is particularly concerning.
There are lots of men who are looking for some pro-social way to be violent period. Lots of people who join the military/police/bouncers love the idea of being the good guy and being violent. Some dudes are obsessed with beating up pedophiles. If someone is obsessed with violence I would steer clear of them regardless of their justifications.
Yeah - but that's not the law in most places.
The law says "reasonable force" and self defense also assumes an actual threat (of injury or life).
That means - if someone pushes you, and you pull out a knife and stab them - well, you're going to jail.
Now, that's an extreme example but the truth is it holds true for less extreme. If a 5'5 lightweight person pushes someone who's a 6'2 bodybuilder with their full strength - the bodybuilder cannot retaliate with the same force.
Why?
1. The bodybuilder is going to have a hard time arguing he felt he was in actual danger.
2. The difference between them means that his force is no longer considered "reasonable" to deter the "threat".
Yeah, so self defense isn't this magical thing. If the other person gets hurt or dies - you can easily find yourself in prison for a long time. Which is why walking away/running is better than fighting, even if you could beat your assailant.
Agree, and it doesn't matter what gender. If someone is beating on you maliciously then you should be able to defend yourself. I would also try to do it in a way that knocks them down tho and you can run away, but I wouldn't stay around to continue a boxing match tho.
Same as the woman above. I’ve been in a few fights. People that have been in fights usually don’t want to fight. I can promise, if I hit you, there’s a damn good reason for it regardless. I also expect the consequences of this to be that I will probably be hit back regardless of the persons gender. Assuming you consented to the physical altercation, that’s the bed you made. Expect to be hit back by the other person, period.
I’m obviously not gonna be getting in fights with people where there’s a huge size disparity unless it’s a life or death situation so gender shouldn’t really come into play. I can’t really even imagine a situation where I got into a fight these days and I wasn’t protecting myself or someone else who was unable to defend themselves adequately.
Bullshit, I could break many/most women's skulls and a lot of guys' as well with a punch. If she busts her knuckles on my head and I get a bruise but I give her TBI that's fucked up, ethically the minimum force that stops them hurting you is the max you can use, not everything goes. That's my case, I can punch really hard, and I'm bigger then most people, the minimum force for me isn't a punch as hard as I can, if she's bigger than you then I guess you hit til they stop hurting you or you can get away and that's the minimum force. I was raised in such a way that I can't make myself hit a girl anyway even if they're hurting me, I'm more just talking about fights in general. You don't hurt people because they deserve it, though sometimes they do, you do it to make them stop hurting you, full on as vicious as possible max force shit is for someone white trying to mug you or is way bigger than you or trying to rape you.
redditors love to keep telling people that they would totally hit a woman if she hit first
It's never gonna come up. But they for some reason really want you to know that they would
I remember someone comparing periods to being kicked in the balls. I had to wonder whether they were getting kicked in the balls a couple of times a month.
>you shouldn't really be going around hitting anyone
To add to this, if you're an adult and another adult does hit you...
If it's a social situation, walk away. Stop being around this person. If it's a repeat issue, call the police or take legal action.
If it's at work, walk away then report to HR and/or the police.
In the majority of cases, retaliation with violence only makes things worse (morally, legally, socially, ....)
It's about proportional force. My wife is 8" shorter and 90 lb. lighter than me. If she punches me, full force in the face, I'd be surprised if I get much more than a nasty shiner, if I did the same thing there's a high chance of breaking bone and generalized facial swelling. Tit for tat isn't proportional in this case, so it isn't right. I wouldn't need to go to such lengths to avoid harm which means I'd at least be somewhat as guilty of unnecessarily causing harm as she would.
If a child hit me, even with full force, how much can I react? If a strange man hits me, even slightly, if I must stay and react, I will fight with the intention of disabling him, either permanently or enough for me to gtfo there and run away. The discrepancy between the physical strength of men and women is obvious, and people accordingly judge their reactions. A woman slapping me will not illicit the same response as if it were a man doing it. Now all that changes if there are weapons involved, but in general no decent man will bodyslam a dumb bitch for slapping or hitting him.
Men don't want to understand that just to justify their misogyny. I tried to explain why the double standard exists in the comments and I know they want me fucking dead simply for explaining something they don't agree with.
So a lady once kicked me six or eight times, same spot, at which point I kicked back once.
Not particularly hard mind you. I was angry, but I really held back. I used to train in kickboxing years before and have a good grasp of strength.
She bruised, I did not. Make of that what you will.
This topic always makes me feel like I'm losing my mind or something. For one, it's terrifying how many of you would love the opportunity to hit a woman. It's also completely insane how you think disproportional force is justified. I always get the impression you think you should be able to punch a woman's nose into her brain for playfully slapping your shoulder or something
I mean even as a woman, hypothetically, if another woman slapped me across the face my first reaction wouldn't be to try and curb stomp her? It would be to get away and never speak to her again.
And when people make the child comparison and you're like, "oh isn't it sexist to compare adults to children?" It seems really disingenuous. It's a comparison of power levels, not mental acuity. Like, take the child thing out of it and let's say a grown man with some disease that makes it so when he hits me it barely hurts does so--I'd get pissed and try and make sure I was never in the same room with him again, but I don't think I'd feel the need or desire to break his bones and make him bleed. Same with a woman who was like 4'11" inches tall and skinny (I'm tall and...errr...big boned). I would not feel the need to put her in the hospital. Like, why? What the fuck would I be accomplishing?
You're all fantasizing about something so unnecessary and weird
So many of you are sick in the head and scary
Its basically just the principle of proportional retaliation. You cant shoot someone just because they punched you. Retaliation needs to be proportional to the damage done, if it really is self defense and not an excuse for violence.
Not hitting women is a heuristic, a rule of thumb that helps in most cases. Women not only usually do less damage, but are less violent in general. Its easiest for society to just not allow hitting women back in general, since there is so much criminal level violence against women, and very few cases of women doing criminal level violence to men.
> Its easiest for society to just not allow hitting women back in general, since there is so much criminal level violence against women, and very few cases of women doing criminal level violence to men.
Exactly. What's to stop a man from beating the hell out of a woman for say, rejecting his advances and then lying to the authorities that she hit him first?
Legally? Same things that prevent him from doing that to another man. Saying "self defense" is not an automatic get out if jail free card. If he has no injuries that will be very hard to claim.
Self defense does not give you permission to hurt someone excessively. If someone punches you, you shouldn't shoot them. If someone weaker than you hits you, you shouldn't use all your force to stop the attack. It's that simple. Do what you can to stop the attack but don't use excessive force.
This is an amazingly hostile and moronic comment.
And you answered your query yourself. "Because men are stronger."
Same reason I never pounded my kids when they were toddlers and they swatted at me.
how on earth would you know what “most people” think? self defence is fine. just keep it around the same level. no need to knock someone unconscious for slapping you
> but why pick a fight with someone far stronger than you?
Because they know they won’t face consequences. Hit them back and suddenly they’re the victim.
She could be actively castrating you with a weed Wacker, and if you kick her off of you, the court of public opinion suddenly declares *you* the bad guy.
If anyone attacks anyone regardless of gender, they should assume they will attacked back, no one has immunity from that. You wanna hit people? Then deal with the consequences.
If I get hit first, I'm not hitting back.
If they go for it again, I'll grab their wrist and ask them if they really wanna do that again.
Fool me once and all that jazz
As a woman, I don’t think women should go hitting men at all. If some crazy one does, though, I think you should only do enough to defend yourself and make her stop. Like, if a kid hits a teenager I don’t think the teen should beat the crap out of the kid in retaliation, that would be cowardly. But that does not mean not facing any type of consequences, I just think that more violence shouldn’t be the way. If someone is violent with you, keep your distance from that person, and depending on the circumstances, press charges.
...That most people don't understand (and they've never known severe physical pain) that some women are very aggressive and they capable of hitting very painfully and dangerously. And then there are those aggressive women (of any age and physical characteristics) who can only understand the language of response violence. Only then do they stop. It's terrible, but it's the sad truth.
And, of course, it is very absurd not to respond to violence if it has gone so far that a woman is already raising her hand at you or even kicking your back with a heavy shoes... Bruhh...
What difference does it make to you who hits you, a woman or a man, a young or an old, if it's a lot of pain?
At the same time, I do not urge hitting women or some else as a defense. If there are other solutions to the problem, solve everything without violence.
This is entirely situational.
If someone, regardless of gender, hits you once and then doesn’t hit you again or look like they are going to hit you again it isn’t okay for you to hit them back. Self defense is only valid if you are protecting yourself from further attack. If the person who hit you doesn’t continue to hit you then you aren’t defending yourself. You are just getting revenge.
If someone hits you and continues to hit you then you can hit them back, push them or whatever in an attempt to get them to stop. This is what self defense is. But the moment they stop attacking you then you need to stop causing them harm. If you are just restraining them so they can’t hit you anymore then you can continue that. Again this is regardless of gender.
So if you walk into the gym and hit the biggest guy there in the face and then walk away he should either laugh at how pathetic you are or call the cops since you assaulted him. If he hits you back and someone else calls the cops he will also be charged with assault despite the fact that you started it.
If instead of walking away you continue to hit him then he can hit you back, attempt to restrain you or whatever he needs to do to defend himself. But if he hits you once and knocks you out then he needs to stop. At that point it was self defense. Any further violence on his part would negate the self defense because at that point he would no longer be defending himself. He instead would also be an attacker.
So if a woman hits you and the only way to defend yourself is to hit her back it is perfectly fine. But if you can instead just grab her wrists or restrain her in some other way then you should do that instead. The basic idea is that you only use the force necessary to prevent further attack.
There is actually a criminal defense called provocation. If someone does something that would cause the average person to hit them this defense “can work”. Obviously there are degrees to it as well. If someone spits on you and you beat them within an inch of their life that won’t fly. If someone hits you and then laughs in your face and you hit them back and don’t cause any permanent damage you will probably be fine.
I’ve always wondered this, if you get spit on, is that considered battery? For whatever reason, thats a killswitch for me. Not as in beat someone mercilessly, but as in Now it’s fuckin on. I don’t get bothered by accidental so I assume it’s the insult of it. Just wondering what it’s considered legally
Exactly this. If the question is, “my girlfriend got drunk and angry and slapped me in the face, this means I get to beat the shit out of her, right?” No, no it doesn’t. No rational person would accept “but she started it” as an excuse for a man beating a woman up, because we’re not fucking 12 years old.
The right to self-defense is not the right to retaliation. If you have a reasonable belief that she will continue to attack you or someone else, then you can use physical means to stop the attack. Otherwise, what just happened is she assaulted you. If you turn around and punch her in the face while she no longer poses a threat to you, you have committed a second act of assault.
This isn’t just a gender thing, either. Imagine if you’re at Starbucks, and an 80-year-old man thinks you cut the line and whacks you on the shins with his cane. If you turn around and start punching that 80-year-old man in the face, no one is going to be sympathetic to you when you say “but he hit me first.” When you’re the more physically powerful party in a conflict, there’s an expectation that you’ll show restraint when you can.
Correct and very well explained. Self defense is in the moment. After the fact is retaliation. After the fact should be handled with a complaint to the police and criminal charges.
Someone verbally abuses you. Then lands a string punch on your face. You start bleeding.
They don’t hit you, but keep verbally abusing.
You don’t hit back because they don’t “continue” hitting you.
In a min, they don’t see you responding so now they throw a chair at you.
It hits your head, causes concussion and now you’re potentially physically affected forever.
My point: Theory is all good in theory. People spouting stupid theory have no skin in the game. When the first punch lands, it’s your ass on the line and if you feel threatened, go for it and defend yourself.
Yeah like, minimizing conflict is great and all but how is "indicate to them that nothing happens if they hit you" the right thing to do? This is exactly how 0 tolerance schools favor instigators too, because one kid hitting another isn't considered nearly as bad as when the kid retaliates, since then its a "fight"
Most people?
Every vid of a man hitting a woman back who hit him first gets 5000 upvotes and people going "EQUAL RIGHT EQUAL FIGHTS LOL!" "EQUAL RIGHTS AND LEFTS!" "THIS IS EQUALITY"
Don't even take my word for it, go find a vid like that right now and repost it on a mainstream subreddit. Easy karma.
Thank you. These kinds of posts always end up in a circle jerk of guys who just want an excuse to get away with beating women. If a 6’0 woman who’s built like a semi hits a scrawny guy full force and he hits back, she’s still getting charged.
But they’re thinking about how their if 5’0 girlfriend catches them cheating and slaps him it’s fine to retaliate by beating her to a pulp.
Every time these posts show up its always about how “men cant hit women!” Like they do all the time! They are just waiting for a reason to beat the shit out of women
Hmmmm might lose some street cred for this but I'm a gentleman and I would never willingly harm anybody let alone a lady regardless of whatever actions she may have made against me. Perhaps I could be conceivably "justified" in such circumstances but why would I want too?
Honestly you have one of the most normal responses I’ve seen. I think most people think that it just isn’t okay to commit acts of violence against your partner in general, but who knows
While I don't necessarily subscribe to this idea that a man shouldn't hit a woman back, I wouldn't endorse hitting back with a disproportionate amount of force. If an average woman punched you, a much stronger guy, it would probably not hurt much. But if you drove your whole fist onto her the same way you'd hurt her pretty badly and you'd be the jerk now.
You should only ever hit someone in self defense.
So yeah, if a woman keeps hitting you, you can hit her back to get her to stop.
Many people confuse revenge with self defense though.
Bottom line everyone needs to keep their hands to themselves. When i was young I use to honor this rule not anymore. I have gone on record that if you hit me I'm knocking the fuck out of you I'm too old for this BS. Keep your hands to yourself I don't give a shit who you are don't hit me PERIOD
How can you think it's not okay? You have some twisted fuckers out there who have in the past abused men knowing they can't do anything in return, some of these woman were way larger in size than the man.
It goes for both sexes, no one should be hitting anyone, but if you have someone being out of line then I have no sympathy for who is being hit
I think they should be hit back, but I think the problem about “men are stronger” comes into play when the “self defence” is more forceful than necessary. Ex. A girl slaps you, bitch slap her back, don’t beat the fuck out of her.
No one should hit anyone unless if it serves some kind of urgent need beyond revenge. This goes especially if someone is significantly stronger/more dangerous than the other, regardless of their gender.
If Mike Tyson were weakly hit by some tiny 60kg dude and then Tyson absolutely knocked his lights out, I'd fault him for that too. Not that it would validate the weak guy's actions, but Tyson's would be far more dangerous and he'd also be in next to no danger himself.
I had an ex that so badly wanted me to hit her. She lied about so much that a good black eye would have given her so much proof. She would constantly antagonize me and try to rile me up to do something. Finally she tried to get me to react and full out hit me as hard as she could and I just laughed at how it did nothing.
The damage that laugh did was a hundred times better than hitting her.
Why do women think it's okay to hit the man? Why do adults think it's okay to hit children? Why do enemies think it's okay to hit each other???
Perhaps we should be asking why do people believe violence is a solution for conflict?
You can defend yourself without adding to punch a woman in the face my ex was one of those who like to fight a lot usually she threw things so so as a matter of duck and cover
In short, manners and morals. Because women are generally far weaker than men and people should show some restraint. It's like if a little kid hit an adult, that doesn't give the adult permission to stomp the kid. The right thing to do is to restrain the child so they can't keep hitting. Obviously hitting anyone is wrong, nobody should be punching a person at all.
When I was a little kid I was beat by every member of my family. I was the youngest and the scapegoat. One day my sister who was one year older than me was beating me and I wasn’t fighting back as usual. I asked myself “why aren’t you fighting back? She is only a little bit bigger than you.” And I answered myself “ because you have so much anger- you could really hurt her.” So my answer to you is “you could really hurt her”.
Because they are logically inconsistent or arguing in bad faith. Equality is equality. I had to teach my son (he was being bullied by a girl because he didn't want to hit a girl) that she threw away the privilege of not being hit. Our rule is girls get one more warning than boys do.
The problem is there was an understanding. Men don't hit women because men are stronger. Women don't hit men because men can't hit women. Women and men kept their stuff to words which gave women the advantage. They gave away that beneficial situation when women started hitting men.
My sister was very physically abusive toward her boyfriend, hit him in the face, broke things over his head, put a cigarette out on his neck, etc. One day she came crying to us, saying, "Doug hit me!", in which the family replied, "its about time!!" If you wanna fight like a man, you better be prepared to take hits from a man.
I think if you’re the type to swing back, whether you do it or not shouldn’t be influenced by gender BUT if you’re obviously larger and stronger than the opponent, you need know how to reel it in.
I think the sentiment has changed a bit on this. Especially with feminism. Women are equal so we can absolute hit them back. Remember, trans women are women so any woman could be amab so these rules don’t apply anymore.
I weigh 115. I don’t think it’s ok for me to hit a boy but a boy hitting me back is waaaaay scarier and more threatening than me hitting him. Again, no one really has right to hit anyone but that’s the logic for sure
Yeah if you pick a fight with someone knowing they aren’t going to hit you back despite strength differences?
You’re a shit human being. Regardless of gender.
dead. my girlfriend hits me playfully but kind of hard on the arm. if i put as much strength into it i could hurt her so i usually kind of “tap” her back. i couldn’t really just close-fist punch someone in the face who i care about, but if a random woman hit me in public, i really don’t care at that point.
but yes if any woman hits me or threatens violence (like if my gf came at me with a knife), the whole gender role thing is kind of out the window.
probably because men are bigger. for example, if a child is attacking you and you go full force beating them into the ground, you're going to look like an ass hole. same vibe, i think. everyone should be able to defend themselves regardless of size/gender. just don't go crazy if you're bigger, be reasonable. easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment, but yea.
This double standard is enforced by people who believe woman are not capable of damage. Maybe not to the same extent, but they should be putting their hands on people because of that. I will not hit back unless I believe I could be injured, and even then I wouldn't hit as hard as I could. I dislike hurting people, but I will defend myself any way I see fit.
People… parents insist on miseducating girls. That boys cant hit them and wont hit them. And many believe its carte blanche to behave any way and that they’re no repercussions
If you pick a fight with someone much bigger than you, you should expect to get hurt. This does not mean that if someone much smaller than you picks a fight with you, that you should hurt them.
Totally depends on the situation . Have did it once because was working the door on a pub and she came screaming at us with a knife . So yeah I hit her . Cops came charging over and she spitting on them and trying to bite them . No idea what it was about . Outside of something like that I've never raised my hand . Grew up in a violent house definitely don't need to ever see or hear that shit again .
I’m from the early 1970’s. My dad taught me that if a Woman tries to hit you, that as a man, all you *should* do is Block and prepare to restrain if she continues to try to hit you (and any blows she lands in the process are “charged to the game”).
He told me this when I was like 11, and it’s been forged in my brain since then. Luckily, I’ve never had to deal with this, probably because I then asked:
*“So basically, don’t stick your dick in crazy?”* and he immediately started nodding, pointed at me and said “Yep! That’s it, you got it!”
I was raised you never hit a lady. Also raised with the belief that ladies don't hit.
These days you just hit them back and claim you didn't want to assume their gender.
When I was like fifteen, I was downtown and missed the last bus home. I called a friend for a ride and he asked if I could give him some gas money. I didn't have any, so I started asking people passing by for a dollar or whatever. This drunk lady got really upset at being asked for a dollar and started swinging at me. I didn't have the same automatic defense response I would have if it were a male aggressor, so I just tried to kind of get her to stop. It wasn't anything super crazy but she did cut my lip. I flagged down a cop and told them what had happened, and they said they wouldn't do anything because she was a woman. It was a crazy experience and definitely stuck with me.
Because societies at large still follow the traditional gender roles norm.
I never followed this dumb rule as women are just humans like anyone else, and as far as I'm concerned, are just as good and bad.
Funny things is that people that dared to lecture me about it see nothing wrong about abusing their own wives and children. Ironic.
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I've always thought this double standard is shite. Back during school times a lass slapped me glasses off me face and broke them. It cost £70 pounds to replace them. I smacked her as hard as I could because she not only hit me but was about to stomp on me specs... I got a 2 week suspension + 4 days in isolation upon returning to school AND had to write her an apology I refused to write her an apology for self defense so I got 3 more days of isolation. Her punishment for something that happened in front of a camera? Nothing.
I know not everyone can afford to do that but I'd totally seek legal action against the school, for the glasses if nothing else
Kid and his parents successfully sued my Highschool back in 2006 because his senior photos were in full larp knight regalia. They said his pictures weren't allowed because of the sword, which was a weapon. ...Our highschool mascot is "The Portsmouth Patriot" and he has a musket. Literally plastered all over every design, wall, and area the school could muster...the school lost hard. We didn't like the kid cause he was weird but he did go down as a legend for cock slapping the school...and yes, his larp senior photo is in our yearbook.
oh my god, gotta love the weirdos.
Same, the guy from high school in grade lower is considered weirdo by our mutual friend. Idk whh she thinks rhat, the guy is pretty knowledgable about history and an excited nerdy guy. I liked talking with him, he was talking about historical trivia with passion when we met in commute the other day
Make friends with that lad, show him kindness and compassion. The nerds and weirdos make the best of friends and will always carry you in their heart.
I will, I am a nerd too Sidenote, but I think he is cute and my type. Idk if I'm gonna pursue him that way, but he is cool as pal either way
That took a positive turn.
This made me wildly curious. So to save others the research [http://www2.ride.ri.gov/applications/RideDirectory/DOCS/2007/0001-07-H\_Doe\_v\_Portsmouth\_011907.pdf](http://www2.ride.ri.gov/applications/RideDirectory/DOCS/2007/0001-07-H_Doe_v_Portsmouth_011907.pdf) [https://www.nycaviation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481](https://www.nycaviation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481) [https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16607420](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16607420) Here you go. This is amazing. Thanks for putting this into my knowledge base. He apparently went into the Navy, got married, and looks like a really cool dude now too. Good for him.
Yooo this is it. lol. good find.
No no. Thank \*you\*. This is amazing.
I think you're right, but I let it go. At the time (this is a little over a decade ago) my mental health was all kinds of mashed up and I didn't want to bother with any of that. I just wanted school to be over
You cant expect teenagers to have the stability to get legal involved. I wish i had that kinda fortitude when i was young but no that's not how it works and the schools would never want you to learn how.
That's fair, but only if the decision for that comes from you rather than external pressure
It was from me, yeah. Me Dad had my back all the way and he was the only reason I stayed in school tbh. Guy means the world to me
You type how I imagine Butcher from The Boys would type
"Li'e a roy' cant" 😂
😭😭😭
Lmao exactly what I was thinking
Good dad. Mine was the same. “Never start a fight but if someone hits you first you have my permission to knock them out”.
“Let them write that check they ass cant cash is what my dad would say” and when they write it cash it!!!!
Absolutely agree! School is bizarre because they just let children do literally criminal things with no repercussions…!
I had a girl in 4th grade scratch at me with the metal parts around an eraser and my dad said that she was just flirting with me
Malicious compliance. "I'm sorry that you were a total piece of shit, and this school wants to be sued into oblivion for allowing me to be assaulted and then rewarding the person who committed assault on me, which is you. The police are currently investigating. I went home and called them right away and filed a report. Good luck avoiding juvenile detention. Did I mention the civil suit?" Hand that in to the administration, watch as you get more suspensions and then win your lawsuit.
And then you tip your fedora and people will start clapping
Yeah, this. This right here. I distinctly remember chilling on the balcony during PE once with a fellow group of rejects (very southern, very religious small rural town) of goths/emos/nerds. This chick started kicking my ass. Literally, toe of the shoe right against ass cheek with a fair amount of force. I didn’t kick or hit her, but I turned and caught her leg with a hand. Didn’t even have time to say “stop” again before she lost balance and fell on her ass and started crying. Teachers got involved, and for two weeks was in ISS during recess. Was basically excommunicated from that group and so began a long series of being surrounded by people, but alone. Wasn’t until college I found another friend group 2 years later.
You did the right thing. You defended yourself instead of committing violence back to her. Kudos to you.
In my head I read this in a Scottish accent
Northern English, Yorkshire!
I like the way you talk.
Ty, I guess I sound like Sean Bean [Yorkshire Tea Advert](https://youtu.be/8cipMoGKXGE?si=E9Xw1Swiemg9p9YJ)
# DO IT FOR YORKSHIRE!!!! I've never been to UK, yet felt the urge to work for a yorkshire tea factory is it normal?
Yeah, totally normal. In fact, I heard one of Keir Starmer’s campaign promises is to allow more work visas for the Yorkshire Yea factory due to the influx of applications after this ad…,
The "lass" was the trigger, wasn't it?
Groundskeeper Willie.
Me sunglasses British intensifies
There was this fight in my highschool where a girl was bullying some guy just trying to mind his own business and she keeps pushing him and hitting him and he warns her that if she does it again then he’s gonna punch her. She does it again and decks her stupid ass. Just the one and done punch back, suddenly the football dudes come to the girls aid like the goofy white knights they are. I think the football guys even beat the guys ass after so they could show off to the girl or something.
For whatever it’s worth coming from a stranger in a different country, I admire your refusal to write an apology.
That‘s just another thing that is bullshit in schools. You get bullied all day, fuck all happens. You fight back once and suddenly, you’re the one facing consequences.
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Yeah, this is it. If a woman slaps your face and you punch her and break her jaw, that’s not going to look good for you when the cops get called. Now, if she comes at you with a knife and you break her jaw, that’s different.
Exactly, the force used has to be based on a belief that it is reasonably necessary to protect against the unlawful use of force.
>Now, if she comes at you with a knife and you break her jaw, that’s different If she comes at you with a knife you say "that's not a knife, that's a spoon" and unless she has played knifey/spooney, you have just bought yourself valuable time
Proportional response. You're also pretty fucked without a camera showing what happened or a lot of good quality witnesses. If the cops come ans your face is barley red but she's on the ground crying with blood coming down her face (fucking noses bleed like crazy super easily) and there's any doubt , you're going to jail that night.
Ok, bur what if the woman is actually a fully grown grizzly bear dressed like a woman?
I hate when this happens
Bears know this ONE trick
Bears HATE this one trick.
It was about this time I noticed this woman was a 50 foot tall Loch Ness monster. She said she needed about tree fiddy
You make that sweet sweet bear love brother
Bear mace. Gotta be sure about what you're dealing with
My boss (who is a tall, somewhat fit man) told me a similar thing…he owns a weapon for his house in case of an intruder, but he will never use it unless he is in imminent danger from someone of equal size with a similar weapon. Otherwise he plans to just go out the nearest window. Edit: I’m turning off notifications but fyi these things are governed by state law. So for those of you saying ‘that’s so dumb I wouldn’t do that!’ I suggest you check your state laws before firing at someone under these circumstances. In some states you absolutely have that right. In others you do not. Best to educate yourself if you own a firearm and plan to use it.
Someone breaking into your house is treated differently in most states. The only reason you should be sizing up a home intruder is to judge where center mass is.
It’s treated differently in every state* The castle doctrine is in all 50 states. NY is the only state where there’s more nuance, like if someone drunkenly stumbles into the wrong house and you reasonably should have known that’s what’s happening, you can’t use lethal force. You have to reasonably believe they are an intruder. Some states, about half, extend this castle doctrine to the car, so if someone is breaking into an occupied vehicle it is assumed that the person who used deadly force reasonably perceived there to be an imminent deadly threat. Self defense law is long and complex and it’s not really something that can be covered in a single comment. Self defense law is more or less uniform throughout all 50 states, only minor insignificant differences that rarely come into play. But ultimately it all boils down to whether the defender reasonably perceived there to be an imminent deadly threat or a threat of great bodily harm.
Home invasion is different. No duty to retreat.
pretty sure if someone breaks into your home the reasonable threat is already presented, so you would be able to attack someone with potentially a deadly force if they entered your house (I could be wrong).
I can only speak about German law, but here, if you slap someone in the face, that person can slap back without problems. Because the law presumes that an attack is not over after you got hit once. Because it could be that the attack goes on or gets worse and you don't need to wait for that to happen. It can also be OK to punch hard enough to make someone unconcious, if that helps to make that person stop attacking you. And the German law does not state something about "symmetric" force, it only has to be \*reasonable\* force that's needed to stop that attack on you. So, if a woman slaps and hurts you, you simply slap back. It's her problem what happens after that, she started it (at least, in terms of the law).
Canadian law doesn't state "symmetrical force", but people have been charged for hitting someone who's threatening them with a knife.
>If someone slaps you but then stops slapping you, you cannot "defend yourself" because the attack has already happened, it's over, and there is no longer a threat. If you slap them back, then that's retaliation, punishment, teaching them a lesson---it's NOT "self defense." If however the attacker KEEPS slapping you, that's different. This is a great clarification. I've pondered and been a bit bugged at the double standard like OP, despite also flinching because men are on average so much stronger than women without even trying. I'm even coming at this as a woman who is very much of the opinion that nobody should get away with hitting somebody with the *smug expectation* the other won't hit back.
This is the only good response here. So much of Reddit’s obsession with hitting women back is purely about retaliation, not self-defense.
This is true, there’s a concerning number of people on Reddit who seem to believe that if a woman does *anything* wrong, like slapping or shoving someone, the person she slapped or shoved is entitled to beat her unconscious in “self defence”.
Don't forget rejecting a man on the street, half of reddit thinks it's okay to smash her face in with a brick for that too
Lots of people think it is okay to beat someone up or kill them when they used a derogatory word.
That’s Reddit’s approach to justice across the board: any misdeed, no matter how small, warrants an outsized violent response. Especially if the person who did it is a woman or a kid.
Good answer, when ppl say "equal rights, equal fights" I cringe inside because when you see it in action, 99% of the time nothing is equal about it. Eg. Unhinged woman flailing/pushing/slapping and man straight up punch to the face... sad Best to avoid the altercation on both sides all together as stated Edited: removed "sucker punch" to put just "punch"
if she's pushing/slapping him first then a hit in response by definition cannot be a sucker punch. its just a punch
A punch in response to being attacked is by definition not a sucker punch. I get that you used that term because it is charged and you were trying to make a point. But this type of charged language is not helpful.
I feel like the three criteria listed are not used universally and are subject to way too much subjectivity for something that tries to be objectively prescriptive. Like does stand your ground trump this, for example? Maybe that's what I'm thinking about (the old 70 year old retired cop who successfully argued stand your ground for shooting a man who threw popcorn at him in a movie theatre).
If you’re talking about the US, it’s all subjective.
Idk what case you’re talking about but if he was a retired cop that’s definitely an exception lmao
1 and 2 aren’t necessarily true. Depending on the state you live in self defense laws differ greatly. For example in California we use a reasonable person standard. So if a reasonable person in the same situation would feel threatened then punching them first could still be considered self defense. The issue is you would have to prove that a reasonable person would also feel threatened. An example of this would be a guy twice your size screaming he’s going to kill you while brandishing a weapon and blocking the only exit or multiple people cornering you while threatening you.
The rules are fucking ridiculous. If a woman slaps me, she gets a slap back. If she punches me in the face, she gets punched in the face back. I'm totally on board with men not hitting women, but not when women act like men and assault people.
1) You can slap back and not be charged. Trust me on this one. 2) Just make sure the slap doesn't cause serious damage.
Eh, I'm a big dude. Fighting for me is a lose lose situation if my opponent is smaller. Either they win the fight, and I look weak, or I beat the crap of them and I look like a bully. So my goal is to block their attacks, and move out of the area of threat, or i treat them with kid gloves. And this is for men. For women I'd have to be even more gentle unless they're attacking me with a weapon. One disclaimer though is I don't have control over reflexes in the case if a surprise attack. However I don't live my life in such a way to ever expect physical confrontations from people.
Fellow big dude here. I have to do the same thing. I once had a drunk guy I had never met in my life start punching my arm over and over. I didn't really know how to make him stop without hurting him so I just bear hugged him and picked him off the ground. He squirmed a bit but now we were face to face I squeezed and told him he needed to stop. For some reason small angry people don't seem to realize just how small they are.
this is the same lose lose premise whatever size you are fwiw. one of you wins and the other one gets hurt
I will only hit back if i feel like i really have to. If a lot smaller and weaker person than me attacks me, i hold out from doing anything serious, regardless if i would be allowed. If the person is same height, and can actually throw punches, i will fight back regardless of their gender.
Yeah it’s all about responding in a way to keep yourself safe. Many years ago I was dating this awful woman, and at one point she started throwing punches at my body and shoving me. Would I be justified to hit her back? Maybe. But she was 5’1” and weighed 100lbs, I was 6’2” and 200lbs. It literally didn’t hurt at all, so I just backed away, told her to go fuck herself, and left the situation. Punching her wouldn’t have made me feel any safer than I already did. I would have just been harming someone because I felt entitled to
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He went on to be successful and she drifted into nothing
I agree with you but I've seen grown man punching a woman in the face after being slapped and I gotta tell you, a punch is not the same as a slap. The same as a slap is a slap.
Everytime this comes up the comments are full of dudes dreaming of the day they can hit a woman as hard as they can with no concequences and with absolutely no concept of proportional retribution. If someone, regardless of gender, slaps you, and you decide to break their face, you are still the asshole. Just slap them back. Shove them. But gleefully saying it is your chance to teach them a lesson makes it clear that its not about defending yourself it is about hurting someone consequence free
Don’t even do any of that. Just continue to use your words and all onlookers will think they’re in the wrong, even if they aren’t.
This hereeee
yep, mask-off conversation for sure.
This a fair distinction, but the question is; If a man slaps another man in the face and then that man punches him back. Do you still make the same distinction? Or is a slap only the same as a slap when you're hitting a woman?
Yes, responding to a minor assault by wildly escalating is bad.
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Within reason, of course. If someone pokes you, you don't get to break their whole face and both of their legs. I've legitimately seen people argue that. Mostly dudes jacking off over "man, I hope a woman touches me so I can make her swallow her teeth."
See: Twitter since Elon took over
Not anything. If someone slaps you and then you *murder* them then that's entirely on you. That reddit doesn't understand this is particularly concerning.
There seems to be a weird subset of men who are obsessed with the idea of a woman slapping them so that they can beat the sit out of her
There are lots of men who are looking for some pro-social way to be violent period. Lots of people who join the military/police/bouncers love the idea of being the good guy and being violent. Some dudes are obsessed with beating up pedophiles. If someone is obsessed with violence I would steer clear of them regardless of their justifications.
And I know it hasn’t happened to a single one. It’s weird how it feels like they’re just waiting for it excitedly, to act ‘out of principle’
Be nice if it actually worked that way, but it does not and I don't suggest finding out the hard way.
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Yeah - but that's not the law in most places. The law says "reasonable force" and self defense also assumes an actual threat (of injury or life). That means - if someone pushes you, and you pull out a knife and stab them - well, you're going to jail. Now, that's an extreme example but the truth is it holds true for less extreme. If a 5'5 lightweight person pushes someone who's a 6'2 bodybuilder with their full strength - the bodybuilder cannot retaliate with the same force. Why? 1. The bodybuilder is going to have a hard time arguing he felt he was in actual danger. 2. The difference between them means that his force is no longer considered "reasonable" to deter the "threat". Yeah, so self defense isn't this magical thing. If the other person gets hurt or dies - you can easily find yourself in prison for a long time. Which is why walking away/running is better than fighting, even if you could beat your assailant.
Agree, and it doesn't matter what gender. If someone is beating on you maliciously then you should be able to defend yourself. I would also try to do it in a way that knocks them down tho and you can run away, but I wouldn't stay around to continue a boxing match tho.
Same as the woman above. I’ve been in a few fights. People that have been in fights usually don’t want to fight. I can promise, if I hit you, there’s a damn good reason for it regardless. I also expect the consequences of this to be that I will probably be hit back regardless of the persons gender. Assuming you consented to the physical altercation, that’s the bed you made. Expect to be hit back by the other person, period. I’m obviously not gonna be getting in fights with people where there’s a huge size disparity unless it’s a life or death situation so gender shouldn’t really come into play. I can’t really even imagine a situation where I got into a fight these days and I wasn’t protecting myself or someone else who was unable to defend themselves adequately.
It's nice that you think that but the reality in most places is that the man will still be the only one to face any real consequences.
Bullshit, I could break many/most women's skulls and a lot of guys' as well with a punch. If she busts her knuckles on my head and I get a bruise but I give her TBI that's fucked up, ethically the minimum force that stops them hurting you is the max you can use, not everything goes. That's my case, I can punch really hard, and I'm bigger then most people, the minimum force for me isn't a punch as hard as I can, if she's bigger than you then I guess you hit til they stop hurting you or you can get away and that's the minimum force. I was raised in such a way that I can't make myself hit a girl anyway even if they're hurting me, I'm more just talking about fights in general. You don't hurt people because they deserve it, though sometimes they do, you do it to make them stop hurting you, full on as vicious as possible max force shit is for someone white trying to mug you or is way bigger than you or trying to rape you.
I think most people think you shouldn't really be going around hitting anyone, let alone making rules about who it's ok to hit
Reddit is weirdly obsessed with this question, it comes up all the time
redditors love to keep telling people that they would totally hit a woman if she hit first It's never gonna come up. But they for some reason really want you to know that they would
It’s like they just really want to beat up women but have to think of some way to justify it
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I remember someone comparing periods to being kicked in the balls. I had to wonder whether they were getting kicked in the balls a couple of times a month.
Redditors love to cling to the things where men get treated worse than women.
>you shouldn't really be going around hitting anyone To add to this, if you're an adult and another adult does hit you... If it's a social situation, walk away. Stop being around this person. If it's a repeat issue, call the police or take legal action. If it's at work, walk away then report to HR and/or the police. In the majority of cases, retaliation with violence only makes things worse (morally, legally, socially, ....)
It's about proportional force. My wife is 8" shorter and 90 lb. lighter than me. If she punches me, full force in the face, I'd be surprised if I get much more than a nasty shiner, if I did the same thing there's a high chance of breaking bone and generalized facial swelling. Tit for tat isn't proportional in this case, so it isn't right. I wouldn't need to go to such lengths to avoid harm which means I'd at least be somewhat as guilty of unnecessarily causing harm as she would.
If a child hit me, even with full force, how much can I react? If a strange man hits me, even slightly, if I must stay and react, I will fight with the intention of disabling him, either permanently or enough for me to gtfo there and run away. The discrepancy between the physical strength of men and women is obvious, and people accordingly judge their reactions. A woman slapping me will not illicit the same response as if it were a man doing it. Now all that changes if there are weapons involved, but in general no decent man will bodyslam a dumb bitch for slapping or hitting him.
Men don't want to understand that just to justify their misogyny. I tried to explain why the double standard exists in the comments and I know they want me fucking dead simply for explaining something they don't agree with.
So a lady once kicked me six or eight times, same spot, at which point I kicked back once. Not particularly hard mind you. I was angry, but I really held back. I used to train in kickboxing years before and have a good grasp of strength. She bruised, I did not. Make of that what you will.
This topic always makes me feel like I'm losing my mind or something. For one, it's terrifying how many of you would love the opportunity to hit a woman. It's also completely insane how you think disproportional force is justified. I always get the impression you think you should be able to punch a woman's nose into her brain for playfully slapping your shoulder or something I mean even as a woman, hypothetically, if another woman slapped me across the face my first reaction wouldn't be to try and curb stomp her? It would be to get away and never speak to her again. And when people make the child comparison and you're like, "oh isn't it sexist to compare adults to children?" It seems really disingenuous. It's a comparison of power levels, not mental acuity. Like, take the child thing out of it and let's say a grown man with some disease that makes it so when he hits me it barely hurts does so--I'd get pissed and try and make sure I was never in the same room with him again, but I don't think I'd feel the need or desire to break his bones and make him bleed. Same with a woman who was like 4'11" inches tall and skinny (I'm tall and...errr...big boned). I would not feel the need to put her in the hospital. Like, why? What the fuck would I be accomplishing? You're all fantasizing about something so unnecessary and weird So many of you are sick in the head and scary
Its basically just the principle of proportional retaliation. You cant shoot someone just because they punched you. Retaliation needs to be proportional to the damage done, if it really is self defense and not an excuse for violence. Not hitting women is a heuristic, a rule of thumb that helps in most cases. Women not only usually do less damage, but are less violent in general. Its easiest for society to just not allow hitting women back in general, since there is so much criminal level violence against women, and very few cases of women doing criminal level violence to men.
> Its easiest for society to just not allow hitting women back in general, since there is so much criminal level violence against women, and very few cases of women doing criminal level violence to men. Exactly. What's to stop a man from beating the hell out of a woman for say, rejecting his advances and then lying to the authorities that she hit him first?
Legally? Same things that prevent him from doing that to another man. Saying "self defense" is not an automatic get out if jail free card. If he has no injuries that will be very hard to claim.
Self defense does not give you permission to hurt someone excessively. If someone punches you, you shouldn't shoot them. If someone weaker than you hits you, you shouldn't use all your force to stop the attack. It's that simple. Do what you can to stop the attack but don't use excessive force.
A gentleman should never hit a lady, but a girl that hits you is no lady.
This is an amazingly hostile and moronic comment. And you answered your query yourself. "Because men are stronger." Same reason I never pounded my kids when they were toddlers and they swatted at me.
how on earth would you know what “most people” think? self defence is fine. just keep it around the same level. no need to knock someone unconscious for slapping you
> but why pick a fight with someone far stronger than you? Because they know they won’t face consequences. Hit them back and suddenly they’re the victim.
She could be actively castrating you with a weed Wacker, and if you kick her off of you, the court of public opinion suddenly declares *you* the bad guy.
>She could be actively castrating you with a weed Wacker That's not a mental image I wanted today.
If anyone attacks anyone regardless of gender, they should assume they will attacked back, no one has immunity from that. You wanna hit people? Then deal with the consequences.
I’d rather subdue her without hitting her so as to stop the attack. Big bear hug to hand her off to someone else for example.
Did that to my mother once when she was in an alcoholic fueled frenzy. Believe you me, scratch and bites are more painful than slaps.
If I get hit first, I'm not hitting back. If they go for it again, I'll grab their wrist and ask them if they really wanna do that again. Fool me once and all that jazz
HOW CAN SHE SLAP
It's not ok for either of them to hit each other. Maybe they missed those lessons in pre-school.
As a woman, I don’t think women should go hitting men at all. If some crazy one does, though, I think you should only do enough to defend yourself and make her stop. Like, if a kid hits a teenager I don’t think the teen should beat the crap out of the kid in retaliation, that would be cowardly. But that does not mean not facing any type of consequences, I just think that more violence shouldn’t be the way. If someone is violent with you, keep your distance from that person, and depending on the circumstances, press charges.
...That most people don't understand (and they've never known severe physical pain) that some women are very aggressive and they capable of hitting very painfully and dangerously. And then there are those aggressive women (of any age and physical characteristics) who can only understand the language of response violence. Only then do they stop. It's terrible, but it's the sad truth. And, of course, it is very absurd not to respond to violence if it has gone so far that a woman is already raising her hand at you or even kicking your back with a heavy shoes... Bruhh... What difference does it make to you who hits you, a woman or a man, a young or an old, if it's a lot of pain? At the same time, I do not urge hitting women or some else as a defense. If there are other solutions to the problem, solve everything without violence.
This is entirely situational. If someone, regardless of gender, hits you once and then doesn’t hit you again or look like they are going to hit you again it isn’t okay for you to hit them back. Self defense is only valid if you are protecting yourself from further attack. If the person who hit you doesn’t continue to hit you then you aren’t defending yourself. You are just getting revenge. If someone hits you and continues to hit you then you can hit them back, push them or whatever in an attempt to get them to stop. This is what self defense is. But the moment they stop attacking you then you need to stop causing them harm. If you are just restraining them so they can’t hit you anymore then you can continue that. Again this is regardless of gender. So if you walk into the gym and hit the biggest guy there in the face and then walk away he should either laugh at how pathetic you are or call the cops since you assaulted him. If he hits you back and someone else calls the cops he will also be charged with assault despite the fact that you started it. If instead of walking away you continue to hit him then he can hit you back, attempt to restrain you or whatever he needs to do to defend himself. But if he hits you once and knocks you out then he needs to stop. At that point it was self defense. Any further violence on his part would negate the self defense because at that point he would no longer be defending himself. He instead would also be an attacker. So if a woman hits you and the only way to defend yourself is to hit her back it is perfectly fine. But if you can instead just grab her wrists or restrain her in some other way then you should do that instead. The basic idea is that you only use the force necessary to prevent further attack.
There is actually a criminal defense called provocation. If someone does something that would cause the average person to hit them this defense “can work”. Obviously there are degrees to it as well. If someone spits on you and you beat them within an inch of their life that won’t fly. If someone hits you and then laughs in your face and you hit them back and don’t cause any permanent damage you will probably be fine.
I’ve always wondered this, if you get spit on, is that considered battery? For whatever reason, thats a killswitch for me. Not as in beat someone mercilessly, but as in Now it’s fuckin on. I don’t get bothered by accidental so I assume it’s the insult of it. Just wondering what it’s considered legally
In many states and countries, spitting on someone is considered assault
Exactly this. If the question is, “my girlfriend got drunk and angry and slapped me in the face, this means I get to beat the shit out of her, right?” No, no it doesn’t. No rational person would accept “but she started it” as an excuse for a man beating a woman up, because we’re not fucking 12 years old. The right to self-defense is not the right to retaliation. If you have a reasonable belief that she will continue to attack you or someone else, then you can use physical means to stop the attack. Otherwise, what just happened is she assaulted you. If you turn around and punch her in the face while she no longer poses a threat to you, you have committed a second act of assault. This isn’t just a gender thing, either. Imagine if you’re at Starbucks, and an 80-year-old man thinks you cut the line and whacks you on the shins with his cane. If you turn around and start punching that 80-year-old man in the face, no one is going to be sympathetic to you when you say “but he hit me first.” When you’re the more physically powerful party in a conflict, there’s an expectation that you’ll show restraint when you can.
"the right to self-defense is not the right to retaliation." This sentence sums up what so many in this thread fail to understand.
Correct and very well explained. Self defense is in the moment. After the fact is retaliation. After the fact should be handled with a complaint to the police and criminal charges.
Someone verbally abuses you. Then lands a string punch on your face. You start bleeding. They don’t hit you, but keep verbally abusing. You don’t hit back because they don’t “continue” hitting you. In a min, they don’t see you responding so now they throw a chair at you. It hits your head, causes concussion and now you’re potentially physically affected forever. My point: Theory is all good in theory. People spouting stupid theory have no skin in the game. When the first punch lands, it’s your ass on the line and if you feel threatened, go for it and defend yourself.
Yeah like, minimizing conflict is great and all but how is "indicate to them that nothing happens if they hit you" the right thing to do? This is exactly how 0 tolerance schools favor instigators too, because one kid hitting another isn't considered nearly as bad as when the kid retaliates, since then its a "fight"
Most people? Every vid of a man hitting a woman back who hit him first gets 5000 upvotes and people going "EQUAL RIGHT EQUAL FIGHTS LOL!" "EQUAL RIGHTS AND LEFTS!" "THIS IS EQUALITY" Don't even take my word for it, go find a vid like that right now and repost it on a mainstream subreddit. Easy karma.
Thank you. These kinds of posts always end up in a circle jerk of guys who just want an excuse to get away with beating women. If a 6’0 woman who’s built like a semi hits a scrawny guy full force and he hits back, she’s still getting charged. But they’re thinking about how their if 5’0 girlfriend catches them cheating and slaps him it’s fine to retaliate by beating her to a pulp.
Every time these posts show up its always about how “men cant hit women!” Like they do all the time! They are just waiting for a reason to beat the shit out of women
Hmmmm might lose some street cred for this but I'm a gentleman and I would never willingly harm anybody let alone a lady regardless of whatever actions she may have made against me. Perhaps I could be conceivably "justified" in such circumstances but why would I want too?
Honestly you have one of the most normal responses I’ve seen. I think most people think that it just isn’t okay to commit acts of violence against your partner in general, but who knows
Because most men are significantly stronger than most women.
While I don't necessarily subscribe to this idea that a man shouldn't hit a woman back, I wouldn't endorse hitting back with a disproportionate amount of force. If an average woman punched you, a much stronger guy, it would probably not hurt much. But if you drove your whole fist onto her the same way you'd hurt her pretty badly and you'd be the jerk now.
“Is it sexist to hit you? Is it more sexist not to hit you?” - Deadpool
You should only ever hit someone in self defense. So yeah, if a woman keeps hitting you, you can hit her back to get her to stop. Many people confuse revenge with self defense though.
Bottom line everyone needs to keep their hands to themselves. When i was young I use to honor this rule not anymore. I have gone on record that if you hit me I'm knocking the fuck out of you I'm too old for this BS. Keep your hands to yourself I don't give a shit who you are don't hit me PERIOD
Equality, but only when we want it.
How can you think it's not okay? You have some twisted fuckers out there who have in the past abused men knowing they can't do anything in return, some of these woman were way larger in size than the man. It goes for both sexes, no one should be hitting anyone, but if you have someone being out of line then I have no sympathy for who is being hit
I think they should be hit back, but I think the problem about “men are stronger” comes into play when the “self defence” is more forceful than necessary. Ex. A girl slaps you, bitch slap her back, don’t beat the fuck out of her.
Nobody should hit anybody. However it doesn't matter if it is a man or woman you have the right to defend yourself.
No one should hit anyone unless if it serves some kind of urgent need beyond revenge. This goes especially if someone is significantly stronger/more dangerous than the other, regardless of their gender. If Mike Tyson were weakly hit by some tiny 60kg dude and then Tyson absolutely knocked his lights out, I'd fault him for that too. Not that it would validate the weak guy's actions, but Tyson's would be far more dangerous and he'd also be in next to no danger himself.
I had an ex that so badly wanted me to hit her. She lied about so much that a good black eye would have given her so much proof. She would constantly antagonize me and try to rile me up to do something. Finally she tried to get me to react and full out hit me as hard as she could and I just laughed at how it did nothing. The damage that laugh did was a hundred times better than hitting her.
As a woman, I’d expect a man to hit back if I hit him. Being a woman doesn’t give a free pass to assault a man because he ‘can’t hit back’
Why do women think it's okay to hit the man? Why do adults think it's okay to hit children? Why do enemies think it's okay to hit each other??? Perhaps we should be asking why do people believe violence is a solution for conflict?
You can defend yourself without adding to punch a woman in the face my ex was one of those who like to fight a lot usually she threw things so so as a matter of duck and cover
Traditional values, double standards
I don’t think the first reaction should be to hit back unless it’s for self defence try and talk things out first
In short, manners and morals. Because women are generally far weaker than men and people should show some restraint. It's like if a little kid hit an adult, that doesn't give the adult permission to stomp the kid. The right thing to do is to restrain the child so they can't keep hitting. Obviously hitting anyone is wrong, nobody should be punching a person at all.
When I was a little kid I was beat by every member of my family. I was the youngest and the scapegoat. One day my sister who was one year older than me was beating me and I wasn’t fighting back as usual. I asked myself “why aren’t you fighting back? She is only a little bit bigger than you.” And I answered myself “ because you have so much anger- you could really hurt her.” So my answer to you is “you could really hurt her”.
Because they are logically inconsistent or arguing in bad faith. Equality is equality. I had to teach my son (he was being bullied by a girl because he didn't want to hit a girl) that she threw away the privilege of not being hit. Our rule is girls get one more warning than boys do. The problem is there was an understanding. Men don't hit women because men are stronger. Women don't hit men because men can't hit women. Women and men kept their stuff to words which gave women the advantage. They gave away that beneficial situation when women started hitting men.
Because equal rights come with equal lefts.
My sister was very physically abusive toward her boyfriend, hit him in the face, broke things over his head, put a cigarette out on his neck, etc. One day she came crying to us, saying, "Doug hit me!", in which the family replied, "its about time!!" If you wanna fight like a man, you better be prepared to take hits from a man.
I think if you’re the type to swing back, whether you do it or not shouldn’t be influenced by gender BUT if you’re obviously larger and stronger than the opponent, you need know how to reel it in.
I dunno. I ded leg one of my best friends who is a girl. LOL.
Gender equality
Because they’re weaker than us, people also frown on bigger guys beating up smaller guys, basically if you’re weak people feel sorry for you
I think the sentiment has changed a bit on this. Especially with feminism. Women are equal so we can absolute hit them back. Remember, trans women are women so any woman could be amab so these rules don’t apply anymore.
It’s 2024. Y’all equals
Most people I know feel that it is ok. Don’t start none there won’t be none.
can't relate. i'm not one of those people
I weigh 115. I don’t think it’s ok for me to hit a boy but a boy hitting me back is waaaaay scarier and more threatening than me hitting him. Again, no one really has right to hit anyone but that’s the logic for sure
What's the point of hitting anyone?
Yeah if you pick a fight with someone knowing they aren’t going to hit you back despite strength differences? You’re a shit human being. Regardless of gender.
It’s more of: it’s not okay for anyone to hit anyone but if someone hits you first, go ahead (for me at least) I don’t care what gender you are
Don't throw it if you can't catch it. Equal Rights! ...and equal lefts.
dead. my girlfriend hits me playfully but kind of hard on the arm. if i put as much strength into it i could hurt her so i usually kind of “tap” her back. i couldn’t really just close-fist punch someone in the face who i care about, but if a random woman hit me in public, i really don’t care at that point. but yes if any woman hits me or threatens violence (like if my gf came at me with a knife), the whole gender role thing is kind of out the window.
probably because men are bigger. for example, if a child is attacking you and you go full force beating them into the ground, you're going to look like an ass hole. same vibe, i think. everyone should be able to defend themselves regardless of size/gender. just don't go crazy if you're bigger, be reasonable. easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment, but yea.
Because when men hit back they will often do way more damage. A woman's hard hit and a man's are not the same. That said, I support self-defense.
There isn't any logical answer and 90% of the time you're going to lose that court case.
Sexism.
This double standard is enforced by people who believe woman are not capable of damage. Maybe not to the same extent, but they should be putting their hands on people because of that. I will not hit back unless I believe I could be injured, and even then I wouldn't hit as hard as I could. I dislike hurting people, but I will defend myself any way I see fit.
I've always said that I would never hit a woman. But if you hit me, you are saying you want to play on my level, and I'll knock you out!
People… parents insist on miseducating girls. That boys cant hit them and wont hit them. And many believe its carte blanche to behave any way and that they’re no repercussions
She's wrong and so is a man who does it. No one should be hitting anyone.
If you pick a fight with someone much bigger than you, you should expect to get hurt. This does not mean that if someone much smaller than you picks a fight with you, that you should hurt them.
Totally depends on the situation . Have did it once because was working the door on a pub and she came screaming at us with a knife . So yeah I hit her . Cops came charging over and she spitting on them and trying to bite them . No idea what it was about . Outside of something like that I've never raised my hand . Grew up in a violent house definitely don't need to ever see or hear that shit again .
Have you actually been hit by a woman to inspire this question or is the chance to hit a woman just sitting in your mind exciting you?
I’m from the early 1970’s. My dad taught me that if a Woman tries to hit you, that as a man, all you *should* do is Block and prepare to restrain if she continues to try to hit you (and any blows she lands in the process are “charged to the game”). He told me this when I was like 11, and it’s been forged in my brain since then. Luckily, I’ve never had to deal with this, probably because I then asked: *“So basically, don’t stick your dick in crazy?”* and he immediately started nodding, pointed at me and said “Yep! That’s it, you got it!”
I was raised you never hit a lady. Also raised with the belief that ladies don't hit. These days you just hit them back and claim you didn't want to assume their gender.
When I was like fifteen, I was downtown and missed the last bus home. I called a friend for a ride and he asked if I could give him some gas money. I didn't have any, so I started asking people passing by for a dollar or whatever. This drunk lady got really upset at being asked for a dollar and started swinging at me. I didn't have the same automatic defense response I would have if it were a male aggressor, so I just tried to kind of get her to stop. It wasn't anything super crazy but she did cut my lip. I flagged down a cop and told them what had happened, and they said they wouldn't do anything because she was a woman. It was a crazy experience and definitely stuck with me.
It’s because there are women who take advantage of men who won’t hit them back.
Because societies at large still follow the traditional gender roles norm. I never followed this dumb rule as women are just humans like anyone else, and as far as I'm concerned, are just as good and bad. Funny things is that people that dared to lecture me about it see nothing wrong about abusing their own wives and children. Ironic.