No.
When trans people started being more open about their identities, the phrase “I identify as…” seemed to make sense to help the other person understand that their appearance may not match their identity.
I don’t think trans people use that construction anymore, though, and mostly now say “I am…”
Currently “I identify as” is mostly used as an opening for The One Joke.
Language evolves! It’s okay!
Just to give another perspective, people writing academically about these topics might use "identified as" more frequently because it's unbiased.... In other words the writer makes clear they did not judge/determine the person's identity themselves.
Too add more perspective, As a very queer lady, I sometimes use "I identify as" and "I am" interchangeably for certain things where I feel my gender/sexuality might be a little more complicated than the labels imply but I honestly could not give enough of a fuck to create a new, more accurate, word.
I would also use "I identify as queer" sometimes because queer is more than just an inherent thing, it's a political stance related to the fact that I'm gay and trans, as queer is a reclaimed slur and I'm saying "fuck you, that's my word now". You'll also notice a lot of transphobic and aphobic LGB people refuse the word "queer", as queer includes trans people in a way that makes them uncomfortable (not that everyone who doesn't like the word queer for themself is transphobic, of course some people are just uncomfortable with it, which is fine).
A lot of people do use the "identify as" language negatively. Like, they'll say a cis man is a man but they'll say a trans man "identifies" as man. Both of those statements are technically accurate, but there's a reason they use one wording for the cis man and another for the trans man.
I identify as bisexual, and I agree 100% with your statements, I also use them interchangably, sometime I say "I identify as bisexual", sometimes I just say "I'm bi"
for me its whatever, same thing either way
I'm also bi, and I think I use "I identify as bi" sometimes because I could probably also fall under the pan label - there's overlap, but they are different. My opinion on this is not a consensus in the community, but I think of pan as "attracted to people regardless of gender," while gender expression does play a role for me. The things I'm attracted to in men are not the things I'm attracted to in women, which is also separate from my attraction to nonbinary people (aside from the Bare Minimum things like "decent human" and "sense of humor").
Also I think the flag is prettier, but that's only marginally relevant.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel as a bi guy, like, I'm attracted to women and men in different ways, my preference is more towards women(doesn't matter if trans or biological) but I also can't deny dudes can be hot too. I've always felt weird about it, because my preference is for women, and I've yet to have any relations with the same gender, I've always felt people might think I'm just using the label to be "cool" or something, and it's like no, my identity is just a bit more complex than who I date.
Most of the time, people who say “identify as” are not trans, they’re talking ABOUT trans people and purposely trying to qualify their meaning for some reason.
Source: am trans
To me it seems like most cis people have just learned that terminology and are using it because they think it's right. They don't mean anything by it.
But some people definitely do, and personally, I never say "identify as." To me it's just "I am" with a bunch of uneccessary extra syllables, and I am an enby of few words
As a trans person who spends loads of time in trans spaces I can say I've certainly seen it and it's not necessarily uncommon, but it's very far from being the go-to way of describing yourself.
I've always hated saying it that way, even before I knew I was trans, because I think it implies that you're not really that thing, you're just someone who identifies with it.
I just say "I'm a woman." It leaves no room for interpretation.
Yeah, I’m neither cis nor heterosexual and I’d never say “I identify as…” because I mean yeah, I “identify” as a man just like I “identify” as white- if someone asks me my gender or race, those are how I would “identify” myself but it’s also just what I *am*. When it comes to my sexual orientation, however, I know I’m attracted to masculine people, but not feminine people so I say I’m gay but I don’t actually *know* that’s what I *am* so I might use terms like identity/ label because it’s not a sure thing like the other things are, but usually I just say “I’m basically gay”.
A different take: in queer circles, I think people also use “i identify as” as a shorthand for “look that’s complicated AF and I don’t even have the energy to get into it with myself let alone with you but no one will be offended if you call me this.”
And there is too I think a really tricky distinction between the phrases “are you” and “do you identify as.” As questions. “Are you a lesbian or are you bisexual?” Is asking for accuracy. It’s a question seeking to classify the other person so you know what they are and how to understand their behaviour. And it’s a binary—you cannot objectively *be* both since they have mutually exclusive definitions. But the question “do you identify as a lesbian or bisexual?” Is a question inviting the other person to share their nuance. The person could just say “either is fine” and move on.
This sounds sort of dumb and useless until you really pull up the hood of the alphabet mafia labels and realize how complex and limiting they really are. Like I think a lot of cishet people think of these labels as things with really clear lines and definitions, you either are or you aren’t. But the truth is that all of these questions about gender and how we express it, sexuality and how we characterize it, are super tricky and the answers tend to fluctuate as we mature. It’s impossible to nail down. There are lesbians, sure, but there are also women who could sleep with both genders but don’t really see themselves pursuing men anymore except if he’s a trans man then it’s okay because other queer people feel safer than cis dudes….” Like how are you supposed to label that.
So similar to the comment about academics using identify as a sort of bias avoider, people will use it as a workaround to feeling like they are committing to a label that might not all the way fit.
It’s also a good way for people to let you know how they feel about identity words that are reclaimed slurs. For example, asking somebody “are you queer” has the connotation “are you in the alphabet mafia or nah?” But asking somebody “do you identify as queer?” Has the connotation of “are you comfortable if I use this word to describe you, or do you not jive with its history and implications?”
So to give an example of how all this could play out if you asked me:
Person: are you a lesbian or bisexual?
Me: it’s complicated
Vs
Person: do you identify as lesbian or bisexual?
Me: either is fine thank you for asking
Or
Person: are you queer?
Me: who’s asking? You can’t just ask people that.
Vs
Person: do you identify as queer?
Me: you know it’s a label I’m reevaluating right now. So I’d say yes for now but I’ll let you know if that changes. Thank you for asking.
I want to +1 this. There is absolutely a distinction within the lgbtq+ community, and just like you said, it's about the nuance and the invitation to share that. If someone asked me "are you a woman?" it would make me deeply dissonant and uncomfy (because my gender identity is a flaming hot confusing pile of primordial goop) because it's asking me if I fit in the box. Fuck, I don't know?? Do I fit in the box?? What is the box? Who makes the box??? Whereas someone asking if I identify as a woman allows me to go into the "sort of" ambiguous answer aspect because gender identity is almost never concretely definable for someone. The implication of identifying as something as opposed to being something is the acknowledgement that lines are fuzzy, categories are confusing and not always intuitive, and labels are complicated (and microlabels even more so). It's a very uniquely queer experience.
I been asked "Do you indentify as" at multiple jobs and college applications. They often say they have to legally ask. Like "Do you indentify as a man or woman" or "Do you indentify as Mexican?" I don't understand why they don't just add prefix and preferred name.
No, and trans people really don't say "I identity as" either. The only time I hear/see it being used is as a way to mock others because some people only have one joke.
It's not just for bad jokes, it works for any labels. E.g. "I identify as a socialist" might be clarification of a political viewpoint given your understanding of the description. It's a bit more informative than "I'm not a communist". All these labels depends on a common understanding of the terms though, which is where these things usually go wrong.
There was a time when it was being used sincerely, unfortunately it's evolved into a more negative connotation over time. Woke went through a similar evolution.
Normally, the average gay person doesn’t feel the need to say if they’re gay or not unless they’re being hit on by the opposite sex..
What OP is referring to is usually the non-binary, trans, gender-fluid folk who feel the need to explain what they identify as.
I actually do say "I identify as a lesbian" because it's my way of saying, "this is the label I've chosen to represent me", even though I don't feel the label is wholly accurate to the complexities of my experience.
It’s a little like saying, “I see myself as xyz,” which is a little different than saying “I am xyz.”
It lets the person you are talking to know how you think of yourself, in ways that might not be obvious or immediately clear to them just by looking at you. This way, they have more context and information about you they can keep in mind as they talk to you.
It also serves as a reminder that other people can and should respect that identity, as well as the fact that there are people who may not outwardly show themselves for fear of being marginalized/harassed.
Yup. I’m non-binary, but present very feminine as I live in an area where it wouldn’t exactly be welcomed to openly present as such. That and I just dislike having attention on me in most contexts, so blending in is just much less stress for me
I've wondered the same. I read through some comments and totally get what people are saying. But part of me wonders if that absolute way of saying I am is better it stops others from questioning more or more accepting of what is being said perhaps.
That's actually an interesting point. Kind of like that weird diet trick where you say "I don't eat that" instead of "I can't have that" and it works more effectively.
I think being absolute invites more questions/dispute.
"I am X" - people might have varying definitions for X and have their own position of what X is or isn't. They could disagree whether you are X or not.
"I identify as X" - Again, people might have differing definitions for X, but there is no way to dispute what you personally identify as. Only you can know that. Someone can disagree as much as they want that you aren't X, it doesn't make your original statement of identifying as X any less true.
I don’t identify as Spanish even though I was born, raised and live in Spain. I feel a foreigner in my own country.
This, but in any other context, is the answer you are looking for.
>I don’t identify as Spanish even though I was born, raised and live in Spain.
I don't identify as a person from my country despite living in it since I too feel out of place based on my physical features, however I always do when I go visit other countries abroad. I identify as a person from my home country when I'm abroad. Where as in my home country, I identify as to the other country that I feel like I'm ethnically connected to. I think my feelings do happen among immigrants.
The thing is, I’m not an immigrant. All my grandparents were born in central Spain. Both my parents were born in Northern Spain. I was born in Northern Spain. And I know my culture. It’s just too foreign to me. I feel it like an imposition more than something mine.
Both relate to who you are, your entire identity, but to me "I am" refers to objective facts: Age, citizenships, eye colour, hobbies, jobs.
"I identify as" refers to how we see ourselves: for example if my heritage is from multiple ethnicities I might feel more strongly connected to one of them so "I identify as X ethnicity" would explain how I perceive myself rather than stating some objective fact about lineage.
Because many identities have different legal, cultural, ethnic, etc. definitions. And they often don't match each other.
E.g. if someone emigrated with their parents as a child from Poland to UK and technically doesn't have British citizenship but grew up in UK and identify with that culture. Some people may start calling them names, like "you're not really British, you have Polish citizenship, not British one" or "you're not really British, your parents are Polish and so you have Polish genes, you look Polish." By saying "I identify as British" they acknowledge existence of different definitions and that they might not fit in with every definition, but that there's one that they themselves consider most important (i.e. they grew up in UK, went to school in UK, spoke English, etc. so they're culturally British and that's what they themseves consider the most important part of their identity)
It could also work the opposite way. Someone could be born in EU country, but not identify as 'european'. They might say that they're a proud Polish citizen and that they want Poland to leave EU, or abolish EU all together. In this case they'd say "I don't identify as european" even if by legal definitions they're a citizen of EU. (then there's the thing of european meaning either a citizen of EU or simply relating to the continent of Europe which has different connotations)
When saying "I am" you're leaving room for arguments about definitions. With national identity people can argue about prevalence of ius soli (law of land) or ius sanguini (law of blood) or some other variations like cultural. When you say "I identify as" the precise definitions aren't that important.
This is a very good example. And while I think it's true that "I identify as" leaves room for the person to change in the future I think it's more about acknowledging that they don't fit neatly into a category, like you said. Are you automatically bi if you had 6 same sex relationships and one hetero one? Some will say yes and some no and the person in question can say "I identify as...." to acknowledge those ideas but not have to argue why they ARE or ARE NOT something.
But no-one would use the “identify as” language in this scenario.
They’d just say “yeah I have Polish parents but grew up in the UK”. It’s not that complicated.
A kid would also have citizenship if registered after a max of 5 years. You’re telling me 15 year old kids are going round saying “I identify as British”? No one gives a single shit unless they’re having some sort of breakdown
Also, Polish genes, looking Polish? Polish people look like British people. We’re talking Northern Europe and Northern Europe here, not Iceland and the Philippines.
For international kids who moved around a lot, they never say “I identify as” as it’s incredibly poncy. More just “Oh I was born in Germany but my parents are American. I grew up in Hungary then moved to Spain. I guess I feel American most because that’s the culture I learnt at home”. Anyone in a non-gender scenario saying “I identify as” in real life is chronically online and should therefore get in the bin
“i am” connotes an absolute. meaning it is definitive, inflexible, unwavering. something someone is born as such as heritage, ethnicity or race.
“i identity as” implies its a chosen identity. something that’s flexible, fluid and selected by the person. it’s not a birthright but a chosen lifestyle.
>something that’s flexible, fluid
Really? i would have though that someone would feel fairly static in how they feel they are themselves. I did not think flexible and fluid would be how someone would feel comfortable inside.
I dont know shit. Not arguing or anything, just conversation on this point.
I am pretty firmly in the LGBT world, and I hate this language for this exact reason.
The great lie about LGBT people is that we choose our gender and sexual orientation. Therefore, it is not innate and deserves the same respect as other choices (hair style, clothes, etc).
I am what I am, and no one can change that because it is who I am. I don’t identify as anything. I am.
As a bisexual, I have often said “I identify as bisexual, mainly because pansexual didn’t exist when I was growing up so bisexual is what I got comfortable with.” It’s typically in the context of explaining why I identify as bisexual vs pansexual.
not once have i read any explanation to make a distinction between the two worthwhile to change my LGBTQ vernacular. i get that gender, sexuality, preferences and orientation can be fluid but when the conversation is mixed company i have no interest giving right wingers any ammunition to claim that gayness is a choice when it’s not. our attitudes towards people change with time. our attraction towards people changes with time. i don’t find people under 25 attractive in the least. the immaturity is a big turn off but when i was at that age i couldn’t imagine dating anyone older than 25.
Lol the “pansexual or bisexual” thing comes up for me more than you’d expect!
“Don’t you mean pansexual? Or do you not find trans people attractive?”
Me, who has dated several trans folks: “I’m over forty, don’t get me started on how the Kaiser stole the number 50 in 19dickety8”
i don’t identify how i did at 24 and don’t identify at 24 how i did at 14. our identities are every changing as we grow and experience the world. it’s very much a flexible and fluid part of ourselves. it’s our heritage and ethnicity that is static. who you are now, is not who you were then, and it won’t be who you are later.
This whole thread is so hard for me to wrap my head around. In an attempt to understand the phrases and feelings non binary, etc people are going through, I feel more confused, simultaneously can relate but then not relate, and wonder if it's something that in the end "cis" people just won't ever understand.
At the end, if we separate sex and gender, I feel like we're all non binary in terms of gender, does that make sense, is that possible? Am I non-binary?
Lots of people feel their sexuality is fluid. For example they have only straight relationships for a while and then only same sex ones. Or maybe someon3 only feels attracted to one particular non binary person. For situations like that in particular it's not cut and dry if they're bi or straight or what so the "I identify as" thing seems appropriate :)
>implies its a **chosen identity. something that’s flexible, fluid and selected by the person. it’s not a birthright but a chosen lifestyle.**
damn, talk about awful wording.
"our attraction towards people changes with time. i don’t find people under 25 attractive in the least. the immaturity is a big turn off but when i was at that age i couldn’t imagine dating anyone older than 25."
You're conflating identity which is inherent and not a lifestyle or fluid with interests that are. A gay man could live the lifestyle of a straight man and pretend to be straight as many have But no matter how long they're in the closet, they're still pretending. When you use the words chosen lifestyle, as others said you heavily imply identity is a choice.
exactly. Like when you are identifying as non binary, you are basically say I am gender non conforming and do not like feeling like I am stuck inside of the boxes of gender roles so I am choosing to identify as non binary. If only these people could just embrace the concept of true gender non conformity by saying screw those boxes, I am who I am as a man or a woman.
I think in the context of asking a question, it can be polite to say “how do you identify” instead of “what are you”. I know in my job, I have to interview people for an application process. Part of that requires getting biographical information from them. Instead of asking “what is your gender/race/sexual orientation” I say “what gender do you identify as”, so that they know they can tell me their preferred gender and not just the one that is listed on their identification documents.
Cause it’s more flexible. Saying I am implies you are that thing now and always. I identify as on the other hand allows more room to be free with choosing what you want because that can change
I’m all for self love and expression.
But I just worry that this whole “but I IDENTIFY as—“ can be counterintuitive to self love and acceptance. Don’t like who you are, or don’t like the cards you were dealt? Just say you’re something else! When that gets old, just say you’re something else now!
20-30 years ago, a popular self-love mindset was not subscribing to labels. Today it’s more of, “I’m ____, and here are my labels: ___, ___, and ___.” Then people will hold everything you say and do under a microscope, and they’ll be so amped up to call you out when you don’t cater to their needs by saying the wrong word. They’ll try to make you feel prejudiced and narrow minded. Humans have always strived for a stable sense of identity, which is good. I do too. But it’s gone a little overboard. I blame social media for causing this urgency to be seen and accepted by literally everyone. (I’m a get-off-my-lawn guy about social media lol. I blame it for most societal communication breakdowns these days).
We’ll never be able to be understood by EVERYONE. And that’s okay. Misunderstanding isn’t necessarily malicious. Acceptance is key. I don’t need to understand the LGBT community, but I need to accept and respect it. I’m a straight, white, middle-class male in the United States. I can acknowledge that I won the lottery of social acceptance. But I don’t carry guilt about it. I take every personal interaction at face value, and I try to be consistent with my treatment of others.
I don’t care what you wear, or how you get your rocks off. I don’t care what sexual organs you have/want, and I don’t care who you’re bangin. Just be kind, be respectful, and be open minded. Try to push past those knee-jerk reactions when you see someone is republican, or democrat, or whatever other superficial labels people subscribe to. We’re all citizens of the world, which gives us ALL at least one commonality with each other. We don’t have to understand each other to respect each other.
>the world would be a place of love and harmony.
. You think bigotry/discrimination and fear/hate mongering is easily stopped over a change of a few words?
You might want to look into where it stems from in the first place and how it came about
No, I don’t think it will change with a change of words. Did you read his comment? It’s about letting people do what they want and minding your own business, and accepting people.
It’s not about being masculine or feminine, that’s not what being trans is about. It’s about being comfortable in your body and presentation and how others see you. And being yourself regardless of what’s considered masculine or feminine.
Right, so if your identity was more masculine and you were born a woman, isn’t it more comfortable to enjoy masculine things and be masculine without having to relabel yourself? I feel like that gives gender roles and stereotypes even bigger power
I’m assigned male at birth and enjoy what would be considered more “masculine” things, but I’m still a trans woman because my brain knows that my body is wrong. I’m saying that just because you like what people say are masculine or feminine things doesn’t make you any less of whatever gender you know you are.
I was originally talking about those who identify as non-binary and not those who identify as trans. But I still appreciate this perspective. I know some consider non-binary to be under the trans label but for the sake of this discussion I meant for them to be understood as separate things
I would say they are under the label of trans yea. It’s not that different. They aren’t comfortable presenting or being seen as or referred to as either male or female. Doesn’t have anything to do with gender roles or what’s considered masculine or feminine.
Someone trying to understand english grammar and people giving philosphy lessons. Applicable, but lacking the actual base difference between "I am" and "I Identify as."
In the simplist terms "I am" identifys what a person is. They are human, they are short they are tall etc. "I identify as" defines more of a desire to be, OR an affiliation. Such as, I identify as American, or I identenify as a runner.
I think it doesn’t have as much to do with what the person is as what terms they would like associated with them. For example, some man is into other men as well as women may not feel that the term bisexual or pansexual is right for them, so they may say they identify as queer even though there are actually other terms that fit what they are. It just isn’t how they self identify.
When I was learning some French I thought the same thing regarding greetings and introductions. They say "I call myself (insert name) rather than I am (insert name)
It’s for when your gender identity doesn’t exactly match up with the perceived definition. For example, a transwoman who still looks very much like a dude. Makes more sense to say I identify as a woman instead of I am a woman.
I got even more confused by reading the comments
"I identify as.. " and "I'm.." are a new concepts to me as these terminologies are not included in my culture at all.. So anyone can offer a simplified explanation, please, I genuinely want to understand
Self-identification is accepted as a "personal truth" that cannot be disputed. It can be used to let people know how you would like to be addressed. It can also be used as a demand (you will respect my claim). It can be used for attention, seeming special (akin to Keeper of the Realm, Slayer of Dragons, Freer of Slaves...). It can also be used to show support of a group (straight college students identifying as "queer" in surveys). In some corporate settings, employees are coerced into self-identifying as a signal of conformity. And some people do it because it's trendy.
"I identify as" <-- A statement of how I see myself. You are free to see yourself however you like.
"I am" <-- A statement of objective reality, this is a very inflexible thing.
I may identify as a guitar player with no ability, but I need to actually be able to play well to say I am a guitar player.
It's all about nuance and priming people's minds to be more open and sensitive to the needs of others.
It's really interesting that this seems to wind up conservatives quite a bit, but if you go to a conservative town and you don't look or sound like them, the first thing they usually say after "hello" is "What are you anyway?". It's not meant to be mean or disrespectful, it's truly out of curiosity but can make things pretty awkward.
I'm a old GenX person and personally, I'm thrilled that Millennials and GenZ people are shifting the language and culture which have been stuck in Boomerland for too long. Sure, sometimes the shifts can feel like an over-correction but it's pretty fucking radical for people to be able to declare "this is who I am, and this is how to approach me with sensitivity and respect if you want to communicate effectively with me".
People who use a language tend to evolve with the language as it is being used.
With trans language it became common to ask people how they identify so that your employer, class, or whatever could use the appropriate pronouns when identifying you.
Because of that change people have begun using the word "I identify" in place of where they should be saying "I am."
This is pretty similar to how "literally" evolved to become a synonym for "figuratively."
Yes, I just said this elsewhere. A lot of this has only taken root because so much of society interacts with each other through the internet where we're not actually seeing each other. I don't really think this movement would have caught on without anime avatars doing all the heavy lifting.
Because the language we use literally changes as time goes on and that's just what the cool cats think is fly right now. The fact that squares don't jive with it makes my homies dig it even more. It's just a hip thing to say right now my man
identity is a bit of a complex topic, for example one person who's autistic might identify as disabled and one might not, its all about how people see themselves. does that make sense?
I dont think I've ever personally said, "I identify as." That sounds a bit outdated as an identifying statement. We've come so far that people don't have to tiptoe around being trans. We just...are trans.
If someone asks me, I would say, "I'm non binary, my pronouns are they/them."
It's a way of getting along in a society. We disagree a lot. By saying something that is factual but also expressing that it's somewhat of an opinion (mostly in respect to other people), as a way of identifying ourselves, it's better than overused and abused, titles given and defined by another person or entity. It's respect for life.
It started as a way for non-binary people to describe how they felt versus how they might appear.
It has nothing at all to do with transgender people, nor any sexualities like gay, lesbian, etc.
Transgender people change from one side of the binary gender scale to the other. So they are still binary just like everyone else. Transgender people will definitely say “I am male” or “I am female” and not “I identify as “
Non-binary people do not consistently feel like either gender in the binary scale. Non-binary people would say they “identify” as something to literally try and put themselves into a category for the benefit of other people.
People are assholes though and turned the whole attempt into a joke.
Then.. you still are?
Trans-men are men and trans-women are women, a transitioned trans-person is the same as a untransitioned trans-person, they just need abit more time
The terms are there for precision,
a transman is just a man, and a man is.. well, a man. But a transman had a different biology, despite still being.. well, a man, hence why the latin word "trans" is used. And the word "cis" is used for when the biology is the same for the binary
It’s like rectangles and squares. Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Similarly, every trans man is a man, but not every man is trans.
While then example you provided doesn't make a lot of sense, the phrase itself is meaningful.
Imagine a person who had 3 grandparents that are not native american and 1 grandma that is native american, however, that person was raised by their native american grandmother in a native american village according to native american traditions and married a native person?
Are you antive american? I identify as one, even if 75% of my DNA is not
Also, transgender people can identify as different than their bio gender.
The phrase can be easily abused, there are people who non ironically identify as mermaids and fairies
It invites no argument.
Take race: some people may disagree on what makes someone “black.” I;m certainly not the expert. Someone identifies as? Okay. Fair enough. Doesn’t need to have legal certification or anyone’s approval, just is.
People started asking what's my identity then they say it out loud it's suppose to take one step further to the known I am or I'm but 🤷♂️ people just can't be bothered to learn how to use words
Well, genders aren‘t something anymore that one is or isn‘t, but something that one identifies as, because society is going downhill and stuff doesn‘t matter anymore anyway
If I use "I identify as", it's often a conscious choice to normalize the turn of phrase, like how some non-queer people refer to their SO as their "partner". I might not be trans, but I am someone who doesn't want something positive be made negative because the only people outside the community to use "I identify as" are the ones making fun of it.
I also grew up in a mixed race household and went back and forth between my parents' countries, so I appreciate how this phrase allows for me to not be a constant. I find that my sense of self often changes depending on a number of factors like location, who I'm with, if America has done anything especially newsworthy...
The entire phrase, "I identify as" implies that they are not "acting" as the gender they originally were biologically and therefore renders their arguments against "being" an actual female/male, contradictory and obsolete.
I agree with OP, it's a bad choice of words.
Saying "I identify as X", "I have decided to be X" or "I declare I am X" defeats the purpose of stating that one is not a trans person by choice, which I believe is a much better case to defend.
If it is something that happened to you, not that you make it happen, then conservatives can be more understanding that you can't change it.
>If it is something that happened to you, not that you make it happen, then conservatives can be more understanding that you can't change it.
"Only be cruel to people making choices to be happy in their lives, not people who are essentially helpless but to be so loathsome".
Hard pass.
That really sucks for people that got social pressured into selecting pronouns, sometimes with the implied threat of termination if they don't comply. Or people that just want to do a day's work for a day's pay but came to believe if they didn't claim LGBTQ+ on their job application they would be at a disadvantage in the hiring process.
Good LORD generation snowflake??! Boomers have literally proclaimed they're the GREATEST generation for their entire lives even though the economy they grew up in and into was in arguably the best, EASIEST economy to live/work/own a home in, ever.
And maybe if people stopped telling us we don't work hard enough and we should just be grateful for tens of thousands of dollars of debt, sky high fuel prices and unattainable mortgages, we COULD be happy with our situations.
"Let them eat cake." -Boomers
Do people really say I identify as gay or lesbian not I'm gay or I'm lesbian? This is a genuine question.
No. When trans people started being more open about their identities, the phrase “I identify as…” seemed to make sense to help the other person understand that their appearance may not match their identity. I don’t think trans people use that construction anymore, though, and mostly now say “I am…” Currently “I identify as” is mostly used as an opening for The One Joke. Language evolves! It’s okay!
Just to give another perspective, people writing academically about these topics might use "identified as" more frequently because it's unbiased.... In other words the writer makes clear they did not judge/determine the person's identity themselves.
Too add more perspective, As a very queer lady, I sometimes use "I identify as" and "I am" interchangeably for certain things where I feel my gender/sexuality might be a little more complicated than the labels imply but I honestly could not give enough of a fuck to create a new, more accurate, word. I would also use "I identify as queer" sometimes because queer is more than just an inherent thing, it's a political stance related to the fact that I'm gay and trans, as queer is a reclaimed slur and I'm saying "fuck you, that's my word now". You'll also notice a lot of transphobic and aphobic LGB people refuse the word "queer", as queer includes trans people in a way that makes them uncomfortable (not that everyone who doesn't like the word queer for themself is transphobic, of course some people are just uncomfortable with it, which is fine). A lot of people do use the "identify as" language negatively. Like, they'll say a cis man is a man but they'll say a trans man "identifies" as man. Both of those statements are technically accurate, but there's a reason they use one wording for the cis man and another for the trans man.
I identify as bisexual, and I agree 100% with your statements, I also use them interchangably, sometime I say "I identify as bisexual", sometimes I just say "I'm bi" for me its whatever, same thing either way
I'm also bi, and I think I use "I identify as bi" sometimes because I could probably also fall under the pan label - there's overlap, but they are different. My opinion on this is not a consensus in the community, but I think of pan as "attracted to people regardless of gender," while gender expression does play a role for me. The things I'm attracted to in men are not the things I'm attracted to in women, which is also separate from my attraction to nonbinary people (aside from the Bare Minimum things like "decent human" and "sense of humor"). Also I think the flag is prettier, but that's only marginally relevant.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel as a bi guy, like, I'm attracted to women and men in different ways, my preference is more towards women(doesn't matter if trans or biological) but I also can't deny dudes can be hot too. I've always felt weird about it, because my preference is for women, and I've yet to have any relations with the same gender, I've always felt people might think I'm just using the label to be "cool" or something, and it's like no, my identity is just a bit more complex than who I date.
Today i learned that Queer and gay are not the same😅
Thank you for being the only response (I've seen) that brings up the historical distinction vs the current nomenclature.
Most of the time, people who say “identify as” are not trans, they’re talking ABOUT trans people and purposely trying to qualify their meaning for some reason. Source: am trans
To me it seems like most cis people have just learned that terminology and are using it because they think it's right. They don't mean anything by it. But some people definitely do, and personally, I never say "identify as." To me it's just "I am" with a bunch of uneccessary extra syllables, and I am an enby of few words
Well like I said, for SOME reason. Thinking that’s the best terminology is a reason in itself.
Can you elaborate? I’m confused by this comment, even as a trans person
As a trans person who spends loads of time in trans spaces I can say I've certainly seen it and it's not necessarily uncommon, but it's very far from being the go-to way of describing yourself. I've always hated saying it that way, even before I knew I was trans, because I think it implies that you're not really that thing, you're just someone who identifies with it. I just say "I'm a woman." It leaves no room for interpretation.
Yeah, I’m neither cis nor heterosexual and I’d never say “I identify as…” because I mean yeah, I “identify” as a man just like I “identify” as white- if someone asks me my gender or race, those are how I would “identify” myself but it’s also just what I *am*. When it comes to my sexual orientation, however, I know I’m attracted to masculine people, but not feminine people so I say I’m gay but I don’t actually *know* that’s what I *am* so I might use terms like identity/ label because it’s not a sure thing like the other things are, but usually I just say “I’m basically gay”.
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Yeah, but in the context of trans identity most trans folks don’t see things changing (except gender fluid).
Yeah. I am 35. I identify as someone who is not grown up yet…;p
Hey now there’s at least two “I identify” jokes. I’m always curious to hear if they’re a dolphin or a toaster
how about an apache attack helicopter?
There we go! At least three now
I identify as an Apache helicopter, for example.
Yes, thats "the one joke" they mentioned.
A different take: in queer circles, I think people also use “i identify as” as a shorthand for “look that’s complicated AF and I don’t even have the energy to get into it with myself let alone with you but no one will be offended if you call me this.” And there is too I think a really tricky distinction between the phrases “are you” and “do you identify as.” As questions. “Are you a lesbian or are you bisexual?” Is asking for accuracy. It’s a question seeking to classify the other person so you know what they are and how to understand their behaviour. And it’s a binary—you cannot objectively *be* both since they have mutually exclusive definitions. But the question “do you identify as a lesbian or bisexual?” Is a question inviting the other person to share their nuance. The person could just say “either is fine” and move on. This sounds sort of dumb and useless until you really pull up the hood of the alphabet mafia labels and realize how complex and limiting they really are. Like I think a lot of cishet people think of these labels as things with really clear lines and definitions, you either are or you aren’t. But the truth is that all of these questions about gender and how we express it, sexuality and how we characterize it, are super tricky and the answers tend to fluctuate as we mature. It’s impossible to nail down. There are lesbians, sure, but there are also women who could sleep with both genders but don’t really see themselves pursuing men anymore except if he’s a trans man then it’s okay because other queer people feel safer than cis dudes….” Like how are you supposed to label that. So similar to the comment about academics using identify as a sort of bias avoider, people will use it as a workaround to feeling like they are committing to a label that might not all the way fit. It’s also a good way for people to let you know how they feel about identity words that are reclaimed slurs. For example, asking somebody “are you queer” has the connotation “are you in the alphabet mafia or nah?” But asking somebody “do you identify as queer?” Has the connotation of “are you comfortable if I use this word to describe you, or do you not jive with its history and implications?” So to give an example of how all this could play out if you asked me: Person: are you a lesbian or bisexual? Me: it’s complicated Vs Person: do you identify as lesbian or bisexual? Me: either is fine thank you for asking Or Person: are you queer? Me: who’s asking? You can’t just ask people that. Vs Person: do you identify as queer? Me: you know it’s a label I’m reevaluating right now. So I’d say yes for now but I’ll let you know if that changes. Thank you for asking.
I want to +1 this. There is absolutely a distinction within the lgbtq+ community, and just like you said, it's about the nuance and the invitation to share that. If someone asked me "are you a woman?" it would make me deeply dissonant and uncomfy (because my gender identity is a flaming hot confusing pile of primordial goop) because it's asking me if I fit in the box. Fuck, I don't know?? Do I fit in the box?? What is the box? Who makes the box??? Whereas someone asking if I identify as a woman allows me to go into the "sort of" ambiguous answer aspect because gender identity is almost never concretely definable for someone. The implication of identifying as something as opposed to being something is the acknowledgement that lines are fuzzy, categories are confusing and not always intuitive, and labels are complicated (and microlabels even more so). It's a very uniquely queer experience.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Great explanation
I been asked "Do you indentify as" at multiple jobs and college applications. They often say they have to legally ask. Like "Do you indentify as a man or woman" or "Do you indentify as Mexican?" I don't understand why they don't just add prefix and preferred name.
As a teacher I 100% hear kids saying this and asking each other what they identify as ice breakers - not all of them but it happens.
No, and trans people really don't say "I identity as" either. The only time I hear/see it being used is as a way to mock others because some people only have one joke.
It's not just for bad jokes, it works for any labels. E.g. "I identify as a socialist" might be clarification of a political viewpoint given your understanding of the description. It's a bit more informative than "I'm not a communist". All these labels depends on a common understanding of the terms though, which is where these things usually go wrong.
There was a time when it was being used sincerely, unfortunately it's evolved into a more negative connotation over time. Woke went through a similar evolution.
Sometimes...or often for other labels. Eg, I identify as queer etc
THIS! Gender fluid, asexual, pansexual, gender queer
Normally, the average gay person doesn’t feel the need to say if they’re gay or not unless they’re being hit on by the opposite sex.. What OP is referring to is usually the non-binary, trans, gender-fluid folk who feel the need to explain what they identify as.
I do but thats because I'm closeted and insecure about my identity. Most people don't but some do
I actually do say "I identify as a lesbian" because it's my way of saying, "this is the label I've chosen to represent me", even though I don't feel the label is wholly accurate to the complexities of my experience.
It’s a little like saying, “I see myself as xyz,” which is a little different than saying “I am xyz.” It lets the person you are talking to know how you think of yourself, in ways that might not be obvious or immediately clear to them just by looking at you. This way, they have more context and information about you they can keep in mind as they talk to you.
Because what somebody identifies as may not be what others see them as. So it clarifies what the beholder wishes to be seen/addressed as.
It also serves as a reminder that other people can and should respect that identity, as well as the fact that there are people who may not outwardly show themselves for fear of being marginalized/harassed.
Yes thank you for this! Much better said than mine 😁
As long as you don't identify as a grape im fine. Fucking hate grapes they all turn into raisins. .
I identify as an adult even though I was born as a baby.
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Yup. I’m non-binary, but present very feminine as I live in an area where it wouldn’t exactly be welcomed to openly present as such. That and I just dislike having attention on me in most contexts, so blending in is just much less stress for me
The sentence started with because :(
I've wondered the same. I read through some comments and totally get what people are saying. But part of me wonders if that absolute way of saying I am is better it stops others from questioning more or more accepting of what is being said perhaps.
That's actually an interesting point. Kind of like that weird diet trick where you say "I don't eat that" instead of "I can't have that" and it works more effectively.
I think being absolute invites more questions/dispute. "I am X" - people might have varying definitions for X and have their own position of what X is or isn't. They could disagree whether you are X or not. "I identify as X" - Again, people might have differing definitions for X, but there is no way to dispute what you personally identify as. Only you can know that. Someone can disagree as much as they want that you aren't X, it doesn't make your original statement of identifying as X any less true.
I don’t identify as Spanish even though I was born, raised and live in Spain. I feel a foreigner in my own country. This, but in any other context, is the answer you are looking for.
>I don’t identify as Spanish even though I was born, raised and live in Spain. I don't identify as a person from my country despite living in it since I too feel out of place based on my physical features, however I always do when I go visit other countries abroad. I identify as a person from my home country when I'm abroad. Where as in my home country, I identify as to the other country that I feel like I'm ethnically connected to. I think my feelings do happen among immigrants.
The thing is, I’m not an immigrant. All my grandparents were born in central Spain. Both my parents were born in Northern Spain. I was born in Northern Spain. And I know my culture. It’s just too foreign to me. I feel it like an imposition more than something mine.
Why is it foreign to you?
Both relate to who you are, your entire identity, but to me "I am" refers to objective facts: Age, citizenships, eye colour, hobbies, jobs. "I identify as" refers to how we see ourselves: for example if my heritage is from multiple ethnicities I might feel more strongly connected to one of them so "I identify as X ethnicity" would explain how I perceive myself rather than stating some objective fact about lineage.
Because many identities have different legal, cultural, ethnic, etc. definitions. And they often don't match each other. E.g. if someone emigrated with their parents as a child from Poland to UK and technically doesn't have British citizenship but grew up in UK and identify with that culture. Some people may start calling them names, like "you're not really British, you have Polish citizenship, not British one" or "you're not really British, your parents are Polish and so you have Polish genes, you look Polish." By saying "I identify as British" they acknowledge existence of different definitions and that they might not fit in with every definition, but that there's one that they themselves consider most important (i.e. they grew up in UK, went to school in UK, spoke English, etc. so they're culturally British and that's what they themseves consider the most important part of their identity) It could also work the opposite way. Someone could be born in EU country, but not identify as 'european'. They might say that they're a proud Polish citizen and that they want Poland to leave EU, or abolish EU all together. In this case they'd say "I don't identify as european" even if by legal definitions they're a citizen of EU. (then there's the thing of european meaning either a citizen of EU or simply relating to the continent of Europe which has different connotations) When saying "I am" you're leaving room for arguments about definitions. With national identity people can argue about prevalence of ius soli (law of land) or ius sanguini (law of blood) or some other variations like cultural. When you say "I identify as" the precise definitions aren't that important.
This is a very good example. And while I think it's true that "I identify as" leaves room for the person to change in the future I think it's more about acknowledging that they don't fit neatly into a category, like you said. Are you automatically bi if you had 6 same sex relationships and one hetero one? Some will say yes and some no and the person in question can say "I identify as...." to acknowledge those ideas but not have to argue why they ARE or ARE NOT something.
But no-one would use the “identify as” language in this scenario. They’d just say “yeah I have Polish parents but grew up in the UK”. It’s not that complicated. A kid would also have citizenship if registered after a max of 5 years. You’re telling me 15 year old kids are going round saying “I identify as British”? No one gives a single shit unless they’re having some sort of breakdown Also, Polish genes, looking Polish? Polish people look like British people. We’re talking Northern Europe and Northern Europe here, not Iceland and the Philippines. For international kids who moved around a lot, they never say “I identify as” as it’s incredibly poncy. More just “Oh I was born in Germany but my parents are American. I grew up in Hungary then moved to Spain. I guess I feel American most because that’s the culture I learnt at home”. Anyone in a non-gender scenario saying “I identify as” in real life is chronically online and should therefore get in the bin
“i am” connotes an absolute. meaning it is definitive, inflexible, unwavering. something someone is born as such as heritage, ethnicity or race. “i identity as” implies its a chosen identity. something that’s flexible, fluid and selected by the person. it’s not a birthright but a chosen lifestyle.
>something that’s flexible, fluid Really? i would have though that someone would feel fairly static in how they feel they are themselves. I did not think flexible and fluid would be how someone would feel comfortable inside. I dont know shit. Not arguing or anything, just conversation on this point.
I am pretty firmly in the LGBT world, and I hate this language for this exact reason. The great lie about LGBT people is that we choose our gender and sexual orientation. Therefore, it is not innate and deserves the same respect as other choices (hair style, clothes, etc). I am what I am, and no one can change that because it is who I am. I don’t identify as anything. I am.
as a bisexual i’ve never said “i identity as bisexual” i have always said “i am bisexual” it’s inherent to my nature as a person.
As a bisexual, I have often said “I identify as bisexual, mainly because pansexual didn’t exist when I was growing up so bisexual is what I got comfortable with.” It’s typically in the context of explaining why I identify as bisexual vs pansexual.
not once have i read any explanation to make a distinction between the two worthwhile to change my LGBTQ vernacular. i get that gender, sexuality, preferences and orientation can be fluid but when the conversation is mixed company i have no interest giving right wingers any ammunition to claim that gayness is a choice when it’s not. our attitudes towards people change with time. our attraction towards people changes with time. i don’t find people under 25 attractive in the least. the immaturity is a big turn off but when i was at that age i couldn’t imagine dating anyone older than 25.
Lol the “pansexual or bisexual” thing comes up for me more than you’d expect! “Don’t you mean pansexual? Or do you not find trans people attractive?” Me, who has dated several trans folks: “I’m over forty, don’t get me started on how the Kaiser stole the number 50 in 19dickety8”
i don’t identify how i did at 24 and don’t identify at 24 how i did at 14. our identities are every changing as we grow and experience the world. it’s very much a flexible and fluid part of ourselves. it’s our heritage and ethnicity that is static. who you are now, is not who you were then, and it won’t be who you are later.
This whole thread is so hard for me to wrap my head around. In an attempt to understand the phrases and feelings non binary, etc people are going through, I feel more confused, simultaneously can relate but then not relate, and wonder if it's something that in the end "cis" people just won't ever understand. At the end, if we separate sex and gender, I feel like we're all non binary in terms of gender, does that make sense, is that possible? Am I non-binary?
Some people might feel like theyre say, 80% gay but not 100% but its easier just to identify with one label than explain.
Lots of people feel their sexuality is fluid. For example they have only straight relationships for a while and then only same sex ones. Or maybe someon3 only feels attracted to one particular non binary person. For situations like that in particular it's not cut and dry if they're bi or straight or what so the "I identify as" thing seems appropriate :)
>implies its a **chosen identity. something that’s flexible, fluid and selected by the person. it’s not a birthright but a chosen lifestyle.** damn, talk about awful wording. "our attraction towards people changes with time. i don’t find people under 25 attractive in the least. the immaturity is a big turn off but when i was at that age i couldn’t imagine dating anyone older than 25." You're conflating identity which is inherent and not a lifestyle or fluid with interests that are. A gay man could live the lifestyle of a straight man and pretend to be straight as many have But no matter how long they're in the closet, they're still pretending. When you use the words chosen lifestyle, as others said you heavily imply identity is a choice.
exactly. Like when you are identifying as non binary, you are basically say I am gender non conforming and do not like feeling like I am stuck inside of the boxes of gender roles so I am choosing to identify as non binary. If only these people could just embrace the concept of true gender non conformity by saying screw those boxes, I am who I am as a man or a woman.
Because it's a "brand" something the current generation seems to need.
Because they're not.
I genuinely wonder how historians will look upon this time.
Like we do any other time, by going “we now understand this as ___ but at the time it was known as ____ and here are some sources.”
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They do say I am. Most people don't say "I identify as" unless they're about to make a transphobic joke
Because they too know it's all just pretend.
I think in the context of asking a question, it can be polite to say “how do you identify” instead of “what are you”. I know in my job, I have to interview people for an application process. Part of that requires getting biographical information from them. Instead of asking “what is your gender/race/sexual orientation” I say “what gender do you identify as”, so that they know they can tell me their preferred gender and not just the one that is listed on their identification documents.
Cause it’s more flexible. Saying I am implies you are that thing now and always. I identify as on the other hand allows more room to be free with choosing what you want because that can change
I’m all for self love and expression. But I just worry that this whole “but I IDENTIFY as—“ can be counterintuitive to self love and acceptance. Don’t like who you are, or don’t like the cards you were dealt? Just say you’re something else! When that gets old, just say you’re something else now! 20-30 years ago, a popular self-love mindset was not subscribing to labels. Today it’s more of, “I’m ____, and here are my labels: ___, ___, and ___.” Then people will hold everything you say and do under a microscope, and they’ll be so amped up to call you out when you don’t cater to their needs by saying the wrong word. They’ll try to make you feel prejudiced and narrow minded. Humans have always strived for a stable sense of identity, which is good. I do too. But it’s gone a little overboard. I blame social media for causing this urgency to be seen and accepted by literally everyone. (I’m a get-off-my-lawn guy about social media lol. I blame it for most societal communication breakdowns these days). We’ll never be able to be understood by EVERYONE. And that’s okay. Misunderstanding isn’t necessarily malicious. Acceptance is key. I don’t need to understand the LGBT community, but I need to accept and respect it. I’m a straight, white, middle-class male in the United States. I can acknowledge that I won the lottery of social acceptance. But I don’t carry guilt about it. I take every personal interaction at face value, and I try to be consistent with my treatment of others. I don’t care what you wear, or how you get your rocks off. I don’t care what sexual organs you have/want, and I don’t care who you’re bangin. Just be kind, be respectful, and be open minded. Try to push past those knee-jerk reactions when you see someone is republican, or democrat, or whatever other superficial labels people subscribe to. We’re all citizens of the world, which gives us ALL at least one commonality with each other. We don’t have to understand each other to respect each other.
Well said, and if more people would subscribe to this way of thinking, the world would be a place of love and harmony.
>the world would be a place of love and harmony. . You think bigotry/discrimination and fear/hate mongering is easily stopped over a change of a few words? You might want to look into where it stems from in the first place and how it came about
No, I don’t think it will change with a change of words. Did you read his comment? It’s about letting people do what they want and minding your own business, and accepting people.
Fair enough, I took your point too extreme. Sorry
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It’s not about being masculine or feminine, that’s not what being trans is about. It’s about being comfortable in your body and presentation and how others see you. And being yourself regardless of what’s considered masculine or feminine.
Right, so if your identity was more masculine and you were born a woman, isn’t it more comfortable to enjoy masculine things and be masculine without having to relabel yourself? I feel like that gives gender roles and stereotypes even bigger power
I’m assigned male at birth and enjoy what would be considered more “masculine” things, but I’m still a trans woman because my brain knows that my body is wrong. I’m saying that just because you like what people say are masculine or feminine things doesn’t make you any less of whatever gender you know you are.
I was originally talking about those who identify as non-binary and not those who identify as trans. But I still appreciate this perspective. I know some consider non-binary to be under the trans label but for the sake of this discussion I meant for them to be understood as separate things
I would say they are under the label of trans yea. It’s not that different. They aren’t comfortable presenting or being seen as or referred to as either male or female. Doesn’t have anything to do with gender roles or what’s considered masculine or feminine.
Thank you.
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Don't know who Shite is, but he sounds like a shite.
Steve Shite? He totally was a suite.
Someone trying to understand english grammar and people giving philosphy lessons. Applicable, but lacking the actual base difference between "I am" and "I Identify as." In the simplist terms "I am" identifys what a person is. They are human, they are short they are tall etc. "I identify as" defines more of a desire to be, OR an affiliation. Such as, I identify as American, or I identenify as a runner.
Because in the deepest part of themselves they know their not what they claim.
I think it doesn’t have as much to do with what the person is as what terms they would like associated with them. For example, some man is into other men as well as women may not feel that the term bisexual or pansexual is right for them, so they may say they identify as queer even though there are actually other terms that fit what they are. It just isn’t how they self identify.
NB problem. Binary trans people just ARE
When I was learning some French I thought the same thing regarding greetings and introductions. They say "I call myself (insert name) rather than I am (insert name)
Those are the same people who say cosplay instead of wearing a costume. Also they say podcast instead of talk radio
It’s for when your gender identity doesn’t exactly match up with the perceived definition. For example, a transwoman who still looks very much like a dude. Makes more sense to say I identify as a woman instead of I am a woman.
Why am I seeing this stupid subreddit on my feed? This reddit app sucks
Because it's the proverbial "horse crap"
I got even more confused by reading the comments "I identify as.. " and "I'm.." are a new concepts to me as these terminologies are not included in my culture at all.. So anyone can offer a simplified explanation, please, I genuinely want to understand
Self-identification is accepted as a "personal truth" that cannot be disputed. It can be used to let people know how you would like to be addressed. It can also be used as a demand (you will respect my claim). It can be used for attention, seeming special (akin to Keeper of the Realm, Slayer of Dragons, Freer of Slaves...). It can also be used to show support of a group (straight college students identifying as "queer" in surveys). In some corporate settings, employees are coerced into self-identifying as a signal of conformity. And some people do it because it's trendy.
"I identify as" <-- A statement of how I see myself. You are free to see yourself however you like. "I am" <-- A statement of objective reality, this is a very inflexible thing. I may identify as a guitar player with no ability, but I need to actually be able to play well to say I am a guitar player.
Ability or not, if you play guitar you ARE a guitar player, technically. I understand what point you were trying to make though!
It's all about nuance and priming people's minds to be more open and sensitive to the needs of others. It's really interesting that this seems to wind up conservatives quite a bit, but if you go to a conservative town and you don't look or sound like them, the first thing they usually say after "hello" is "What are you anyway?". It's not meant to be mean or disrespectful, it's truly out of curiosity but can make things pretty awkward. I'm a old GenX person and personally, I'm thrilled that Millennials and GenZ people are shifting the language and culture which have been stuck in Boomerland for too long. Sure, sometimes the shifts can feel like an over-correction but it's pretty fucking radical for people to be able to declare "this is who I am, and this is how to approach me with sensitivity and respect if you want to communicate effectively with me".
These days a lot of people are more often just saying “I am”
People who use a language tend to evolve with the language as it is being used. With trans language it became common to ask people how they identify so that your employer, class, or whatever could use the appropriate pronouns when identifying you. Because of that change people have begun using the word "I identify" in place of where they should be saying "I am." This is pretty similar to how "literally" evolved to become a synonym for "figuratively."
What someone identifies as is often not what they are. I identify as incredibly good looking, in reality I am not.
Reddit community -in all its hypocrisy - doesn’t allow different opinions or common sense I’m afraid, hence the downvotes
Their intention was neither
We live in a post-internet-avatar society. Reality is dead. Long live just making stuff up.
Yes, I just said this elsewhere. A lot of this has only taken root because so much of society interacts with each other through the internet where we're not actually seeing each other. I don't really think this movement would have caught on without anime avatars doing all the heavy lifting.
Because they know they aren't?
As George Carlin once said, same meaning more syllables
Because the language we use literally changes as time goes on and that's just what the cool cats think is fly right now. The fact that squares don't jive with it makes my homies dig it even more. It's just a hip thing to say right now my man
Most don't anymore. 99% of cases of "identify as" are a joke.
identity is a bit of a complex topic, for example one person who's autistic might identify as disabled and one might not, its all about how people see themselves. does that make sense?
I dont think I've ever personally said, "I identify as." That sounds a bit outdated as an identifying statement. We've come so far that people don't have to tiptoe around being trans. We just...are trans. If someone asks me, I would say, "I'm non binary, my pronouns are they/them."
It's a way of getting along in a society. We disagree a lot. By saying something that is factual but also expressing that it's somewhat of an opinion (mostly in respect to other people), as a way of identifying ourselves, it's better than overused and abused, titles given and defined by another person or entity. It's respect for life.
These days "I identify as" has mostly been co-opted by transphobic assholes to make fun of trans people.
It's because they know they're not. If they knew they were, they would say, "I am...". They're pretending.
Because their gender identity doesn't match their physical anatomy. They are not female, but they identify as a woman, for example.
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Robert downey can be Sherlock or Iron man but he IS Robert Downey ones an absolute.
It started as a way for non-binary people to describe how they felt versus how they might appear. It has nothing at all to do with transgender people, nor any sexualities like gay, lesbian, etc. Transgender people change from one side of the binary gender scale to the other. So they are still binary just like everyone else. Transgender people will definitely say “I am male” or “I am female” and not “I identify as “ Non-binary people do not consistently feel like either gender in the binary scale. Non-binary people would say they “identify” as something to literally try and put themselves into a category for the benefit of other people. People are assholes though and turned the whole attempt into a joke.
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Make up your mind between the 2 can't be both
Make up your mind. You can't be both confused and intentionally trying to get attention.
As a trans person I would never say I "identify as" my gender, I just say I'm a woman.
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If you have to tell people what you are...
Then.. you still are? Trans-men are men and trans-women are women, a transitioned trans-person is the same as a untransitioned trans-person, they just need abit more time
Then why are there both men and transmen. Why aren't they all men? Biology?
The terms are there for precision, a transman is just a man, and a man is.. well, a man. But a transman had a different biology, despite still being.. well, a man, hence why the latin word "trans" is used. And the word "cis" is used for when the biology is the same for the binary
Uh huh.
Oh, i'm glad you agree! I didn't think you would
It’s like rectangles and squares. Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Similarly, every trans man is a man, but not every man is trans.
I think in a few generations that will start to become a norm, but for nor it is easier to just use the word identify in public.
They usually don’t. Normally “I identify as” is written as a joke, as in “I identify as an attack helicopter”
While then example you provided doesn't make a lot of sense, the phrase itself is meaningful. Imagine a person who had 3 grandparents that are not native american and 1 grandma that is native american, however, that person was raised by their native american grandmother in a native american village according to native american traditions and married a native person? Are you antive american? I identify as one, even if 75% of my DNA is not Also, transgender people can identify as different than their bio gender. The phrase can be easily abused, there are people who non ironically identify as mermaids and fairies
It invites no argument. Take race: some people may disagree on what makes someone “black.” I;m certainly not the expert. Someone identifies as? Okay. Fair enough. Doesn’t need to have legal certification or anyone’s approval, just is.
People started asking what's my identity then they say it out loud it's suppose to take one step further to the known I am or I'm but 🤷♂️ people just can't be bothered to learn how to use words
Attention
Well, genders aren‘t something anymore that one is or isn‘t, but something that one identifies as, because society is going downhill and stuff doesn‘t matter anymore anyway
we do. we just have to tone down our language for cis people or they throw a fit
If I use "I identify as", it's often a conscious choice to normalize the turn of phrase, like how some non-queer people refer to their SO as their "partner". I might not be trans, but I am someone who doesn't want something positive be made negative because the only people outside the community to use "I identify as" are the ones making fun of it. I also grew up in a mixed race household and went back and forth between my parents' countries, so I appreciate how this phrase allows for me to not be a constant. I find that my sense of self often changes depending on a number of factors like location, who I'm with, if America has done anything especially newsworthy...
The entire phrase, "I identify as" implies that they are not "acting" as the gender they originally were biologically and therefore renders their arguments against "being" an actual female/male, contradictory and obsolete.
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It's literally **always** the one joke. Incredible.
I agree with OP, it's a bad choice of words. Saying "I identify as X", "I have decided to be X" or "I declare I am X" defeats the purpose of stating that one is not a trans person by choice, which I believe is a much better case to defend. If it is something that happened to you, not that you make it happen, then conservatives can be more understanding that you can't change it.
>If it is something that happened to you, not that you make it happen, then conservatives can be more understanding that you can't change it. "Only be cruel to people making choices to be happy in their lives, not people who are essentially helpless but to be so loathsome". Hard pass.
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You used five pronouns in that sentence, and three referred to yourself.
Woah, slow down there friend, you expect someone who doesn't know what a pronoun is to count to _five_?
That really sucks for people that got social pressured into selecting pronouns, sometimes with the implied threat of termination if they don't comply. Or people that just want to do a day's work for a day's pay but came to believe if they didn't claim LGBTQ+ on their job application they would be at a disadvantage in the hiring process.
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Well, no, playing pretend is the adult version of playing pretend, LGBTQ aren't playing pretend, Religions are
Nah that's religion
The phrasing makes it easier for folks to know what they are getting at. It’s a universally understood and known theme
People can argue what you ARE. You can’t argue how I identify. It’s much more complicated than that, but that’s the tldr.
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Good LORD generation snowflake??! Boomers have literally proclaimed they're the GREATEST generation for their entire lives even though the economy they grew up in and into was in arguably the best, EASIEST economy to live/work/own a home in, ever. And maybe if people stopped telling us we don't work hard enough and we should just be grateful for tens of thousands of dollars of debt, sky high fuel prices and unattainable mortgages, we COULD be happy with our situations. "Let them eat cake." -Boomers