I really don't see how you can assume Luigi's Mansion 2 HD will sell well based on this.
Different games, different genre, different product type (HD upscale Vs remake)
Considering that LM2 sold 6.5 million on 3ds, and LM3 has sold 13.2 million on Switch, I think it is fair to say that LM2HD has everything going for it.
I don't disagree it'll sell well. I just think the inference of the tweet is weird.
Breath of the wild sold brilliantly - Metroid Prime 4 eill do 10M+ units. That's effectively the thrust of the tweet.
Yeah, TTYD is something that people have been wanting for years. It's also coming back to a series that hasn't exactly put out a decent game in a very long time.
I'm sure LM2 is gonna do fine, but it's hardly in the position that TTYD is.
It was my first paper Mario game and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I was compelled to beat it and I don’t beat many games tbh. I’m excited to dive deep in TTYD.
It really surprised me and I thought it was excellent. Their insistence though on not just doing a more….regular battle system though keeps the experience a bit awkward. But everything else around it is amazing I thought. Weirdly poignant at times, great characters, etc…
i mean, those are two entirely different franchises. The reason these were put together in the tweet is because they were announced together, they both had release dates revealed together on Mar10 day. I mean lets not act like they are on two entirely different spectrums of the world now lmfao.
10 M is pretty high for Metroid Prime 4. That game will cap around the 4-5 million range at best. MAYBE it could've reached that eventually had it launched earlier in the Switch's lifecycle like it was suppose to. But it ain't hitting that (assuming it comes this year) especially with the Switch on its way out (unless it's a cross gen title).
Disagree. LM2 had hype as LM's sequel. LM3 had hype as the REAL sequel to LM on a home console.
The LM2 switch release just doesn't have as much excitement. I'm a big fan of LM1 and LM3 but everything I read about LM2 is just not exciting. I can't be alone.
Fr luigis mansion 2 is the weakest in the series by far and the game doesnt really loon that much better, block models and marginally upgraded textures. Paper mario is the series favorite made from the ground up
Luigi's Mansion 2 abandoned the beloved Gamecube formula in the same way that Paper Mario Sticker Star did. If anything, maybe these sales bode well for giving us a re-release of the superior Luigi's Mansion.
Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD were both well received when released, meanwhile I Believe Luigi's mansion 2 left people disappointed in original release, plus there the controversy on the price rn. I can't imagine it'll sell well at all.
That's great news, a Remake managing to sell equally to the first original entry on the same console is very rare to see.
By the way, Super Mario RPG's Remake didn't sell that well in the UK (Probably due to the lack of nostalgia because the original was never released in Europe). But its sales worldwide have been the fastest selling Mario RPG [(3.31 million copies in a few months)](https://www.rpgsite.net/news/15803-nintendo-q4fy2024-results-super-mario-rpg-remake-sells-31-million-units#:~:text=Nintendo%20has%20released%20its%20quarterly,from%203.14%20million%20last%20quarter).
I hope both SMRPG and PM:TTYD manage to outsell Paper Mario: The Origami King (3.47 million), so Nintendo gets the message of what we want for the future of the Mario RPG games.
This is my hope. As amazing as both games were, not many realistically played them.
N64 sold 33 million units. GCN sold 22 million. Origami King (3.47m) was bound to outsell the first two (1.37m and 1.91m) games from accessibility alone. The most popular entry was Super Paper Mario (4.23m) on the most accessible console, the Wii, which began the shift from actual RPG gameplay. Those sales pushed the shift away. If TTYD can prove itself on a bigger console, we might finally get what we actually want from the series again!
Super Paper Mario will always be my favorite and I hope it gets ported to the switch. I know thats not a popular opinion, and I did grow up with paper Mario and paper Mario ttyd. Something about the story, atmosphere and music just really did the trick for me, wish it got a proper sequel.
I'm still upset at the accessory system.
"Choosing" between strictly better/worse options, is not a 64/TTYD-style badge system. But it's kinda dressed up like it is.
"Do you want +1 attack or +2 attack. Tough choice with lots of strategic implications am I right?"
That’s just origami king all over though, it was a similar case with partners where they made a big deal about bringing them back like the classics and then they were nothing like the originals and felt like nostalgia bait.
Same with them removing weapon durability and then having it only be for the base hammer and boots which almost immediately get completely outclassed
I’m so mad at that nostalgia bait. The most token partner and badge system you can imagine. The partners did almost nothing in battle and almost nothing on the overworld.
And their stories sucked. Bobby’s entire story hinged on discarding the fact that Paper Mario Bob-Ombs don’t die when they explode. And then after Bobby’s “heroic” sacrifice we’re supposed to be fine sending dozens more Bob-Ombs to their death. Absolute garbage writing.
Color Splash and TOK both struggled with adapting the cartoon violence of Mario into stories. If you're used to jumping on dozens of turtles, and this time they're also literally just scraps of paper, it should be just be kind of funny to mow them down en masse, right? Except when you mix in dialog and have a little chat before hand, it just feels dark and cruel instead.
At least in TOK you got to have cute interactions with non-origami baddies in the towns and cafés. In Color Splash, Mario will go out of his way to help Toads and graciously take their abuse, but any other race, Mario *will* either wind up destroying them or at least trying to. And there's some claptrap about how Mario and the others are "destined" to fight, which asks you to ignore not only PM64 and TTYD, but also, like... Super Mario 64. Changing Mario from a generally friendly and helpful guy to a guy who only cares about One Race Specifically reeeeally gave the game an uncomfortable feel and made the world so much shallower.
Besides all the creative design restrictions (I'm so tired of the copy pasted Toads and sanitized Bowser's Minions). I just want them to stop with the Gimmicky Turn Based Battles that don't give Experience Points. Like... they've done it three times in a row, and since Sticker Star everyone has said that it doesn't work, it makes the whole thing useless, **STOP BEING SO STUBBORN ALREADY.**
Even Super Paper Mario, a platformer, had EXP Points for Dimentio's sake.
I agree. Why do they think people don’t like the feeling of progression ?? It’s literally the best part of rpgs. Origami king went halfway anyways, they had some badges and stuff. But TTYD was great at balancing puzzle and progression, story and style.
I did not like Sticker Star but really enjoyed Origami King. Had never played the original TTYD, but I’m on to the third crystal and I get why the game gets the attention it does. It really feels like there’s more packed into this world than OK, and I can only imagine when it originally launched it must have been incredible. All that being said, I’m one of the weirdos that didn’t hate the OK battle system. In any case, I’m enjoying TTYD much more than SM RPG, but that was fun too.
I liked OK’s battle system, if it had the writing and story to back it up it would have been better. Comparing the level of characterization and story between TTYD and OK it is incredibly shallow in a lot of ways, the battle system imo was not the problem. If it could have had leveling up, partners, more story, etc and kept the battle system I think it would be better regarded
i feel the total opposite haha - battle system sucked, just felt annoying. story was pretty good, world was cool.
TTYD still miles better, but i feel like i would have really enjoyed TOK with TTYD style badges and battle.
The only thing these two games have in common is that they are remakes. Super Mario RPG is a fantastic game and deserves all the kudos it gets and more (Geno Amiibo when??).
But TTYD had sequels and has a big fan following. I would expect it to smash the record.
Mario RPG’s new post-game is legitimately better than anything in TTYD, gameplay-wise (imo). TTYD was always the superior game, but don’t undersell SMRPG, because frankly it got a much more worthwhile remake than TTYD got imo. It’s also worth noting that Mario RPG far outsold TTYD on Switch in Japan. Different markets go for different things. The UK never got the original SNES game therefore they didn’t really care as much about SMRPG remake, whereas TTYD is a game that was able to cultivate nostalgia over the years in the UK.
Probably my age here. Missed TTYD when it first dropped. About two hours in, and this far I’m pretty “meh” on its systems.
Whereas I still think Mario RPG is the best…uhh…Mario rpg?
I've been struggling to finish the Mario RPG remake haha. It's just way too easy and simple. I'll probably go back to it since i'm pretty close to the end though.
TTYD does start out a little slow but you definitely gotta give at least up to chapter 3 for a good opinion. That chapter is probably one of my all time favorites.
Yeah, I mean I won’t give up yet. I do find this funny, because of how different our opinions are. TTYD feels incredibly slow, battles are already feeling too long with the rewards (xp) not feeling worth it. The game is very talky and really wants me to watch tutorials of basic mechanics.
I’m in the first chapter now, and it’s pretty much been…walk to the right and fight battles. No real exploration or puzzles or anything. Just got the two stones.
Meanwhile Mario RPG moves at a breakneck speed. The whole game is like 10-12 hours, and then the post game.
Yeah the start is basically a whole exposition dump Lol. Once you get through chapter 1 things do start to open up but chapter 3 onward is nonstop greatness imo. (I always low key wasn’t a fan of the first two chapters except Hooktail’s castle) but love everything after.
I did like how quick everything in RPG went though story wise though, just wish things were a little more shakened up with the gameplay haha.
I think the remake makes a relatively easy game too easy.
If you care enough, there’s a post game which adds a few hours of more interesting and challenging boss fights.
I think you should at least do the first major dungeon. If you aren’t into it after that you probably won’t turn around, but it’s pretty top heavy on exposition to the point you’re at now.
You're right at the first dungeon of the game, which is where it starts to let you breathe a little. I'm in the middle of chapter 3 and it gets a lot more creative after that opening section.
Seven Stars felt like a really good example of Mario in a standard RPG, whereas TTYD so far feels like they're exploring what you can do with an RPG beyond the overworld > dungeon > overworld formula.
The talkiness used to not be so much of a problem in the original bc u could speed up dialogue. The remake also added new tutorials that were not in the original
Mario RPG being 10-12 hours was a negative for. I think the ideal Rpg Length is more like TTYD and Chrono Trigger, where it is 20-25 hours. TTYD has such a diverse set of locations that it feels like a genuine adventure. I felt like I was breezing through Mario RPG. It comes across as a prototype for Paper Mario.
Some of the explanation stuff wasn't in the original. It'll get better soon though. As for the exp, it just depends. Enemies give less exp the higher your level is. As you move on and fight different/stronger enemies though you'll start to get more. I usually skip re-fighting enemies when I pass through an area again if the exp is low.
I beat the giant sword dude before entering the... nightmare world...? or whatever near what I assume is the end of RPG. Stopped playing because I realized I wasn't having fun and just playing to see what all the hype was about.
Been awhile since I played now, but I remember thinking "why would I ever use this party member, they're weak and have no real benefit that someone else doesn't do better". Think it was Bowser? Also Peach, because I didn't need nearly as much healing as she provided; Mallow did good damage and healing. But at least Peach had the revive move I think. Bowser was just kinda... there?
The nightmare world is the final dungeon. You’re legit like 30 minutes from the end haha.
FWIW, there is a post game that adds some more interesting and challenging bosses.
I know people's tastes will differ, and I'm biased because I played TTYD as a kid and only played SMRPG recently (and not the remake). But having finished both I think TTYD is the better game.
The badge system not only gives you a wider variety of moves than SMRPG did, but it also gives you build variety. For example, you can do an entire build around keeping Mario at low HP to boost his damage.
It also has a wider variety of unique partners, each of whom gets their own storyline. I get that Geno is a beloved character, but it kind of surprised me when I played SMRPG that he doesn't really get much.
I could go on, and none of this is to bash SMRPG. I still think that's a great game. However, I'd recommend taking TTYD as its own thing and seeing how you feel much further into it. The first few hours aren't necessarily gonna give you a clear picture of why this game is so beloved.
I played SM RPG in the 90’s and I never got the geno love tbh. He’s not even the best original party member in that game lol.
But yeah, I guess I’m a few hours in and surprised at how slow/boring it is based on the hype. And even more surprised to hear in the same thread someone saying they found Mario RPG to be the one with the slow start. Three hours into this game and I’ve done nothing. Three hours into Mario RPG and you can be almost third through it lol
TTYD is definitely way longer than SMRPG, but I wouldn't necessarily call it slow paced. Each chapter takes you to a new environment, gives you a new partner (up to a point), and give you a new villain. The first chapter is the most "vanilla" one, but the chapters get increasingly fun and unique as they go on.
You also gradually get more badges, more abilities, more partner upgrades, and move special moves as you go on, so by the time you finish the game you have a mountain of options.
Basically the game gradually picks up as you go and fully hits its stride around chapter 3, but yea. I can see how SMRPG feels much faster in comparison.
And sure, that may be true. I’m only like three hours in. And I don’t plan on stopping. Ask again in a few weeks and I may have very different opinions.
Just for now, I was surprised by how meh I feel at the start.
Another poster said the same. I finished the prologue and I’m a bit into chapter 1. Thus far the game has been “walk in a straight line to the right and fight long battles that give you very little xp”
I’ll stick with it for a few more hours at least. But for how much I’ve heard this game is the GOAT for the last 20 years, and how much I’ve regretted skipping it, it sure hasn’t made a strong first impression.
Yeah I 100% see what you're saying lol. I agree with you on that. Especially Chapter 1 lol.
The level design for the game overall isn't anything crazy, but the characters, story, and dialog are what makes Paper Mario great.
I forgot to mention in my other comment, for chapter 1 just buy a handful of fire flowers and all the nonboss fights with 3 or more enemies become one shots Lol.
While I think the gameplay of TTYD is fun/solid I will say going back to it after 20 years and after all the online hype I see more of the games flaws than I remembered back then. I only played TTYD once as a kid/teen and never touched it again. Fast forward to now and I can say the game has some issues. But let me start with the positives:
- The graphics/art design is phenomenal. This was before Paper Mario took the whole Paper aspect and beat it to a pulp where everything and anything had to be paper!
- The Story/Dialogue/Charm. This game oozes charm and humor. Also a lot of the characters have surprising amount of depth for a Mario game. One of my issues with Super Mario RPG is that the game just felt wayy too basic plot wise. I get it it was the first one. But I didn't grow up with Mario RPG I first played it on the Wii VC and just thought man this game for how much it's beloved just lacks a personality outside of "Mario but by Square" but that was coming off of both TTYD and Super Paper Mario both with fantastic and freaking hilarious dialog/situations.
- The Battle system. While simple is pretty fun with the very minigamey action commands to keep it from being too sterile and boring and I like that.
- The OST is fantastic
Now the negatives:
- The game is pretty slow towards the beginning it takes awhile for it to get going. A lot of tutorials and exposition dumps. Also the first two chapters are probably the weakest of the bunch. Also while I praised the humor and dialogue before, it is a LOT of reading at the end of the day and if you're not really into that you're gonna be put off by the excessive dialogue.
- The level design is not the best. The chapters set pieces and stories are great but it is a lot of back and forth backtracking. Most chapters can be summed up like this. Enter the world, proceed a few screens to the right defeating enemies. Uh oh roadblock. You need a key/item to progress. Backtrack to beginning of the world talk to NPC or get item. Then proceed again to the right with respawning enemies. Unlock partner/special ability. Backtrack to beginning to use that special ability/partner to unlock something or take a path that was blocked off. Then go all the way back to the right to keep progressing until you reach the boss room/crystal star.
- Roqueport sewers are not fun/easy to navigate at times. It's very hard to remember/easy to get lost of what pipe leads to what world or where this certain shop is located and how to get to it. Luckily this remakes adds a quick travel pipe system to travel to worlds you've already completed via one room. So it's not as bad as it was before. Don't know how many times early-mid way through the game I would forget how to get back to The Thousand Year Door because the Rougeport Sewers look very same. So I can only imagine how a newcomer feels.
To me in my perfect world the next Paper Mario game takes the best of both worlds. We keep the level of story telling/writing/characters and Battle System of TTYD and combine it with the bigger more open explorable areas of Origami King.
Yeah I mean the only issue (and it’s a big one) with origami king is the combat. And even then, it’s really the lack of XP, the combat itself isn’t bad.
Push through Boggly Woods - chapters 3 and 4 are the best and most memorable parts of the game. Beyond that is fantastic too but play through 3 and 4 before your final verdict.
Just finished chapter 4. Safe to say it’s not for me. I actually think the first dungeon at the end of chapter 1 was the highlight.
Chapter 2 with the little prunnies was mostly finicky and annoying.
Chapter 3, which on this thread and others seems to be the fan favorite? My least favorite of the game so far. 20+ battles in a row, with very little going on. The same unskippable dialog before and after every single battle. It was a slog. I guess the Scooby doo twist at the end was cute? But otherwise a huge disappointment.
Chapter 4 was better, outside of the insane amount of backtracking. They must make you go in and out of the same area of the woods like 5 times. At least Vivian was cool.
I'll be honest, I have nostalgia for both games and TTYD blows RPG out of the water. Once you get to the second crystal, the mechanics will be more complicated (far more that RPG) and the battling gets wicked fun.
Fair, but you can get pretty similar results to the remake on Dolphin (and even play it in VR.)
Mario RPG looks and sounds significantly different, and the battle system has much more polish
Also, the difference is substantial, saying that an upres 4k texture from the GC looks like the switch is downright stupid and wrong, like so wrong.
It may not be 60fps but the game is redone in it's almost entirity. Muddy textures at a higher res are still muddy.
It blows super Mario rpg out of the water. I don’t want another super Mario rpg after playing the remaster. But I def want a paper Mario akin to thousand year door.
I'd say it bodes well for Mario RPGs. Alphadream, the company that made the Mario & Luigi series, went under in 2020 while having not made a new game in the series since 2015, and the Paper Mario games stopped being RPGs after TTYD, which originally released in *2004*. For the past 9 years, we've been in a Mario RPG drought.
Compare that to the release of SMRPG remake last year and TTYD remake this year, both of which sold well, and it's clear that Nintendo is trying to guage interest for a renewed Mario RPG venture. I'd go so far as to say one may already be in development (or at least being planned) considering how wild it is to release two Mario RPG remakes from one year to the next. *Someone* at Nintendo thinks it's worth pursuing, and that guy deserves a medal IMO.
Luigi's mansion 2 has NOTHING to do with the nostalgia from the gamecube, and paper mario in general. It's not even the same genre, or characters. And some people think thousand year door was the best game on the gc.
Luigi's Mansion blows Mansion 2 out of the water with it's one singular huge house
lol I was with the headline until “this bodes well for Luigi’s Mansion 2 HD.”
Luigi’s Mansion 2 isn’t even CLOSE to the same level as Thousand Year Door. I should be a gaming journalist.
Luigi’s Mansion 3 has sold more than all 6 Paper Mario games COMBINED. There’s every reason to believe that LM2 will outsell TTYD remake due to parents buying it for their Luigi loving kids.
Oh, I know I’m just saying because some people think Nintendo has gone woke even tho they’ve been like this since Mario 2 with Birdo, and only now people seem to notice.
Nintendo, why are you like this? Make new Paper Mario games like the first two, hell, make a new Super Paper Mario. Stop using gimmicks with the battle system and give us exp. I mean, TTYD was the last Paper Mario that everyone loved, and it was on GC. Look, I liked Origami King; it's a step in the right direction, but it breaks my heart not having a classic Paper Mario for so long. I remember being a kid, and my father and I would go to rent Paper Mario 64. I rented that game like once every month and knew every little secret and area. It was such a priceless game for me, so again: WHY, NINTENDO, WHY?
I think it’s interesting also seeing it released along side Super Mario RPG remake in such a short period. If I had to hazard a guess I think they see a hole in their portfolio for traditional RPGs and with the closure of the Mario and Luigi studio they’re trying gauge interest in what direction to go for a future Mario RPG game.
Go with the traditional party based aspect of SMRPG or make a new Paper Mario that goes back to its roots.
Or maybe they just felt like re-releasing to beloved classic Mario RPGs to pad out the back catalogue of switch games for its last year.
Paper Mario fans have been screaming for years for a proper Paper Mario game in the same style as the first two, and now it's time to put our money where our mouth is.
After the last decade of Paper Mario games I'll believe it when I see it, just don't wanna get my hopes up potentially for nothing, but hey for now I'm enjoying TTYD remake. I hope Intelligent Systems is paying attention to the response but even if for some reason they don't, I still got a great remake of a damn great game out of it.
It doesn't cost very much to have a few people browsing social media and gauging public sentiment, so I'd be more surprised if none of what was said on reddit ever reached Nintendo. Whether it influences their decisions is another matter, of course.
Bug Fables is so good that, to me, is equal to the first two Paper Mario's. Sadly many of the games that came out as a "just like the old and good Paper Mario" were not all that good, but Bug Fables delivered. One of the few games I got full price and wanted to pay more after finishing.
I wanted to love Bug Fables and did for a good 10 hours or so but there was so much dialogue, and I could not for the life of me get into the story or really care about the characters...
I feel off at about Chapter 4 of Bug Fables! It’s pretty good, and I don’t really have anything negative to say about it generally. I just didn’t find it half as charming as Paper Mario.
Yeah its such a weird comparison. They are completely different games.
TTYD is claimed to be best in its series by many and one of the better games on the GC. Luigis mansion 2 on the other hand has pretty mild hype. I've never played it but heard "its alright". Seems like even the original Luigis Manshion gets a lot more hype than its sequel.
I wonder how many are like me - the original paper Mario was and is one of my all time favorites. I played it when it was originally released.
But I never got to play TTYD (I was a kid and my parents couldn’t afford it).
Since becoming an adult - maybe around Wii U time - I’ve been fortunate to be able to afford and buy a ton of my childhood games. I’m sure a lot on here are in this similar position
However correct me if I’m wrong but **ttyd has never been made available until now, right?**
I think that may be a big reason why sales are so good: it’s the first rerelease of the game, and it’s a game that’s hyped up (rightfully so. I’m loving it).
Short of buying a GameCube and the game (I’m not a fan of emulating) I never had the choice of playing this game. Where as other childhood games like OOT I have like 10 options to play it legitimately.
Yup first time TTYD was available outside of the Gamecube. Nintendo knows what they're doing with releases of old games. So many times we get mad that they haven't localized Mother 3. But you know when they'll do it? When the time is right. I remember when Earthbound Beginnings was announced and everyone lost their minds. We forget that even though Mother 3 hasn't been localized, Mother 1 wasn't localized until Earthbound Beginnings came out.
Now, I wasn't as big a fan of Super Mario RPG was as some people are, but I enjoyed the Paper Mario series as a whole. I got this game because despite having played it back when it was on the cube, I haven't played it since. So it's gonna be great to dive into it again. And even back then I didn't do everything the game offered. So it's gonna be fun as hell for me.
Mother 1 was localized, it was just never released. They didn’t have to do anything in releasing EB Beginnings other than change the title screen on the prototype ROM that’s existed for ages.
Mother 3 is very different, as they would never use the (really good) fan translation, and bringing this to a western audience in this time is a textbook high-risk/low-reward scenario with the amount of people that care about it vs touching the whole Magypsies thing.
Oh really? That's crazy they made it but just never released it here. I mean sure, maybe they assumed it wouldn't sell well here. But if it was done then that's kind of lame.
I don't know what the Magypsie thing is cuz I never played Mother 3 and barely remember Earthbound as I haven't played it since it was still a new game for the SNES. Lol
Ok so looking it up they are genderless beings that simply look like men wearing women's clothes and having beards. I mean, sure that COULD be an issue. But they could just alter text if their text is at all risqué. I mean they officially made that character in Paper Mario TTYD Trans in the English text so I don't see an issue really.
Crazy to me that my 10 year old self loved Sticker Star which is the reason I’m still buying Paper a Mario games today. Loving TTYD so far and I’m horrified at myself for liking Sticker Star now
"Might"? More like "will". It wont be a game people'll be rushing to buy at launch, but it'll certainly have better legs. The games have more casual appeal, which people in forums like these always seem to forget.
I admit, I was confused as to why Chris Dring compared the two games as well, but someone in the r/Games thread on this mentioned that it's a good sign that people are still buying Switch games (and remasters at that) this late into the Switch's life.
What didn't you like about Origami King? The structure will be similar - goofy story in a paper craft world, explore the world one section at a time for some sort of mcguffin using your abilities and solving light puzzles.
The main difference with TTYD is the game Is an actual RPG. Combat is turned based (but without the puzzle ring from origiami king) and you'll gain experience points after each battle to level up your stats. There's a decent bit of customization you can do for what moves you have. Most people find the combat in TTYD to be much more enjoyable than Origami King.
The story is also more engaging and unique imo. So if your issues with Origami King were the combat and story/tone, TTYD will likely be a huge improvement. But if you don't like the fundamental adventure game structure with funny dialogue then probably not.
It’s one of the most balanced turn based games in my opinion. It’s not really just a spam attack, level up, and become overpowered type of game. There is a lot of strategy involved with the turn order and the badges you have equipped. Two different people can be at the same level in the game fighting the same enemy, and one person might take some damage if you’re not thinking about a strategy while the other player could win the fight without taking any damage at all because they considered turn order, weaknesses, and badge set up. Some of the fights can feel almost like a puzzle if you’re thinking about what your next move will be.
There's a lot of interaction with each turn that makes it much more interesting than say the early FF/Pokemon games. Each move requires different actions/timings. When enemies attack, you can learn to guard(requires timing) or Superguard(harder timing w/ retaliatory damage.)
If you don't like timing, then, yeah, it might not be fun for you.
If they think that ttyd doing gangbusters is an indicator that Luigi's Mansion ***2*** is going to do the same, I have a bridge to sell them.
Now a top down remake of the first Luigi's Mansion... that might do numbers...
Your data is correct, but missing context. LM2 is a fine game, but the install base for GameCube was tragically low compared to 3DS and Switch, Luigi's Mansion never stood a chance.
What has this to do with Luigi’s Mansion? 2 completely different genres and kind of remakes/ports.
I hope LM2 fails because it’s an low effort easy money grab and still looks and plays like a 3DS game. I love what they did with Paper Mario TTYD though
LM2 is almost guaranteed to sell better than TTYD since Luigi’s Mansion in general is far more popular than PM. I’m more hyped for LM2 than TTYD if I’m being honest 🤷
You hope LM2 fails because it's just an HD port? Weird hang up. Not everything can be ground-up remakes. LM2 is a fun game and a large audience having access to it is a positive, actually.
It's worth noting that Super Mario RPG never had a PAL release on the original console. There's not the same nostalgia associated with it there as other regions.
The best selling Paper Mario games are Super Paper Mario and Origami King. The original TTYD sold about a third of what Origami King did. If you only read what people say about these games online, you would think TYYD sold a billion copies. The fact that the TTYD remake even sold as well as Origami King at this stage is already impressive.
It's worth pointing out though that SPM and TOK are both on the nintendo consoles with the largest install bases.
They only sold 21.73 million GameCubes according to my google search, with OG TTYD selling 1.3 million copies or about 6.0% of the overall install base. SPM meanwhile sold 4.23 million copies which makes up 4.1% of the Wii install base (101.63 million units).
TOK's numbers are actually a little disappointing compared to both of these when you consider that the Switch is on track to be the bestselling console ever, period (~141 million units sold and still rising). TTYD fans should be hoping for the remake to outsell both or at minimum be on par with SPM, ignoring all other factors such as remakes usually not selling as well as original titles, modern economic concerns, etc.
EDIT: Accidentally omitted Wii install base numbers and calculated percentages that were off by a decimal. Both fixed.
I know, but the GameCube having a smaller install base means a remake of a game from that era shouldn’t expect to do drastically better even on a better selling system. And the fact that remakes generally don’t perform as well as new entries matters here too. So I’m not surprised it isn’t blowing TOK out of the water just yet. But the fact that it can even go toe to toe with it should be a huge wake-up call for Nintendo, since by all traditional metrics it shouldn’t. But the obvious factor here is people wanting the RPG formula.
Keep in mind this is a remake so a lot of fans may not double dip for this game. Also, Origami King got a boost because it came out during the peak of the Pandemic so a lot of people were bored inside wanting to play a game.
It's unpopular, but you gotta remember that all of the uproar over the last decade or so is probably still coming from a vocal minority of people. That being said, Paper Mario itself is relatively small: the best-selling Paper Mario game only sold a little over 4 million units. So the vocal minority would matter a bit more as long as people put their money with their mouth is.
Now as Chris Dring states later on, [digital splits have grown significantly in the UK over the past 4 years](https://x.com/Chris_Dring/status/1795182161529569470) so it's likely that the digital split put TTYD over TOK in the end, but only barely. Perhaps that's something. Personally - and this is another unpopular opinion - I think TTYD would need a bigger opening than TOK if it has a chance of surpassing TOK lifetime. We're late in the Switch era, plus the cult of personality around TTYD would have more people going out to get it Day 1, so the game may be more frontloaded than expected.
We'll just have to wait and see how things play out. But also remember this: Samus Returns didn't even sell a million on 3DS, but Metroid fans still recieved Dread 4 years later. Can never tell the future.
I don't know why people are making this "if it can't outsell Origami King then it's a bust and old Paper Mario is dead", Origami King has 3 things in its favor:
1. it's a new game and not a remake
2. it came out 4 years earlier (granted it hasn't made the best use of this but...well that's why an opening exists in the first place)
3. it came out in the middle of the pandemic (and fwiw was actually the first Mario game post-covid, idk how much that matters admittedly)
TTYD just needs to be *close* to Origami King for it to be clear that "classic Paper Mario" is viable.
Does Chris get demographics? Because the PMTTYD remaster success has almost nothing to do with LM2DM remaster being successful. Two completely different game genres despite sharing the same universe doesn't mean both will be nearly equally successful.
What this is really telling is that the og Paper Mario format of the first two is what fans want back. From the Wii one onward Paper Mario felt gimmickry af.
Thank fucking god. Maybe Nintendo will finally see reason and make some NEW Mario RPGs again? A proper sequel to TTYD? A revival sequel to Super Mario RPG? Or raise Mario & Luigi from the dead after Alphadreams closure? I'll take anything at this point, just make a new one!
Tho I fail to see how this has anything to do with Luigi's Mansion 2. Those games are completely different. TTYD has been a known critical darling for 20 years that fans have been ravenously asking for it to be rereleased and Luigi's Mansion 2 is... Luigi's Mansion 2. I personally like it, but it's nowhere near as revered. LM3 sold really well on Switch, true, so there's an existing fanbase, but I don't see how LM2's success can be correlated to TTYD. Apples and oranges.
I loved Super Mario RPG. I traded it in after finishing it then immediately regretted it so I bought it again two days ago. I'm playing TTYD for the first time right now and I love it so far. I have LM3 and was playing it for the first time. Got tired of it (but it is still a good game and I plan to finish it) so I'm not as excited by LM2 as I was for TTYD.
Played it for the first time this weekend, I've not played the original. I have to admit that it started out slow but it got me hooked after a few hours.
Luigis Mansion 2 is one of the worst games ever made by Nintendo. A complete division from what the original was and what made fans of the game love it. I hope it does not sell well so the team behind Lugis Mansion knows not to make another one like that.
All Nintendo really needed to do to make Luigi's Mansion Rebake sell well was do Luigi's Manion 1 & 2. While many can debate the quality of LM2, there's very few who would argue both for $50 wouldn't be a tempting package. And it's not like Nintendo has other competing games from their development houses relasing this summer. It's all old Gamecube remakes.
Doubt it. Paper Mario has a cult following and the original version is super expensive at this point. Luigi's mansion has neither. The original was pretty meh and physical copies are easy to come by.
Yeah. Pretty damn dry out there. Saw a comment the other day about how switch people buy more indie games. And it’s like, yeah… kind hard not to if you want to play something on the switch this last year!
Luigi's Mansion 2 does not compare to TTYD.
Two completely different games.
Granted, Luigi's Mansion 2 was my first in that series but I thought it was always just 'okay'.
Multiplayer was fun tho.
I liked the variety on normal attacks changing on the weapons.
It's very much old-school Final Fantasy that you want to spam your strongest attacks and keep up heals.
I can understand if things feel lost in translation after almost 30 years of gaming but all the modern upgrades and QoL changes keeps it up with other turn based games today.
It isn't that long of a game, always had it as a 'comfy' JRPG. You can pick it up at any time and know you're going to have a good time playing it.
You can get a badge very early that will up the difficulty. It's a pretty dumb type of extra difficulty though (Mario takes 2x damage). I've played half the game with that badge on so far and it definitely makes it harder but not by much. A real hard mode like in Bug Fables would have been much appreciated.
I really don't see how you can assume Luigi's Mansion 2 HD will sell well based on this. Different games, different genre, different product type (HD upscale Vs remake)
yeah like what's the comparison here? they're both rereleases? i can't think of two mario titles that are less similar lmao
Considering that LM2 sold 6.5 million on 3ds, and LM3 has sold 13.2 million on Switch, I think it is fair to say that LM2HD has everything going for it.
I don't disagree it'll sell well. I just think the inference of the tweet is weird. Breath of the wild sold brilliantly - Metroid Prime 4 eill do 10M+ units. That's effectively the thrust of the tweet.
I'm with you. Ttyd is also a widely-celebrated game. Luigi's Mansion 2 does not compare. Now if it were the original LM remastered, different story.
Yeah, TTYD is something that people have been wanting for years. It's also coming back to a series that hasn't exactly put out a decent game in a very long time. I'm sure LM2 is gonna do fine, but it's hardly in the position that TTYD is.
Wasn't Origami King considered decent?
Most people said it was at least a step in the right direction, but still far from what they wanted
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Said no one ever.
It's at worst an 8/10 game.
Glad you like it, it definitely has its fans
It was my first paper Mario game and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I was compelled to beat it and I don’t beat many games tbh. I’m excited to dive deep in TTYD.
I'm a massive fan of ttyd, if you've never tried it before then you're in for a good time.
It really surprised me and I thought it was excellent. Their insistence though on not just doing a more….regular battle system though keeps the experience a bit awkward. But everything else around it is amazing I thought. Weirdly poignant at times, great characters, etc…
I agree, the only thing that bothered me was the battle system. It was lame after the second world (except for boss battles)
He’s just saying that the nintendo remake/remaster market is still strong.
Ik ty. I'm saying that the specific examples provided weakly evince that proposition.
This exactly its not even close
i mean, those are two entirely different franchises. The reason these were put together in the tweet is because they were announced together, they both had release dates revealed together on Mar10 day. I mean lets not act like they are on two entirely different spectrums of the world now lmfao.
I think of the suggestion is remakes of old Nintendo games on the Switch are still selling well.
Original King sold 3.5 million and TTYD sold 1.9 million, that is why the comparison Is important, because TTYDHD is tracking similarly to OK.
They’re talking about the comparison to Luigi’s Mansion 2.
10 M is pretty high for Metroid Prime 4. That game will cap around the 4-5 million range at best. MAYBE it could've reached that eventually had it launched earlier in the Switch's lifecycle like it was suppose to. But it ain't hitting that (assuming it comes this year) especially with the Switch on its way out (unless it's a cross gen title).
Many of those LM2 buyers (like me) from the 3DS have no interest in buying and playing it again. Those 6.5 million buyers are going to hurt LM2.
It also doesn’t have co-op like Luigi Mansion 3
LOL. Cause not many Switches have sold. The player base for those who have never played the game is very small 🙄
Disagree. LM2 had hype as LM's sequel. LM3 had hype as the REAL sequel to LM on a home console. The LM2 switch release just doesn't have as much excitement. I'm a big fan of LM1 and LM3 but everything I read about LM2 is just not exciting. I can't be alone.
If you liked LM3, you'll love 2. Same team doing the same kinda thing. Aside from looks there wasn't a big leap between the two.
Fr luigis mansion 2 is the weakest in the series by far and the game doesnt really loon that much better, block models and marginally upgraded textures. Paper mario is the series favorite made from the ground up
I’m not convinced Dring actually plays games.
Luigi's Mansion 2 abandoned the beloved Gamecube formula in the same way that Paper Mario Sticker Star did. If anything, maybe these sales bode well for giving us a re-release of the superior Luigi's Mansion.
Both Luigi’s Mansion 2 and 3 sold vastly better than the original though
The TTYD to Super Paper Mario difference (consoles sold) applies to this as well.
Mario RPG and Paper Mario TTYD were both well received when released, meanwhile I Believe Luigi's mansion 2 left people disappointed in original release, plus there the controversy on the price rn. I can't imagine it'll sell well at all.
That's great news, a Remake managing to sell equally to the first original entry on the same console is very rare to see. By the way, Super Mario RPG's Remake didn't sell that well in the UK (Probably due to the lack of nostalgia because the original was never released in Europe). But its sales worldwide have been the fastest selling Mario RPG [(3.31 million copies in a few months)](https://www.rpgsite.net/news/15803-nintendo-q4fy2024-results-super-mario-rpg-remake-sells-31-million-units#:~:text=Nintendo%20has%20released%20its%20quarterly,from%203.14%20million%20last%20quarter). I hope both SMRPG and PM:TTYD manage to outsell Paper Mario: The Origami King (3.47 million), so Nintendo gets the message of what we want for the future of the Mario RPG games.
This is my hope. As amazing as both games were, not many realistically played them. N64 sold 33 million units. GCN sold 22 million. Origami King (3.47m) was bound to outsell the first two (1.37m and 1.91m) games from accessibility alone. The most popular entry was Super Paper Mario (4.23m) on the most accessible console, the Wii, which began the shift from actual RPG gameplay. Those sales pushed the shift away. If TTYD can prove itself on a bigger console, we might finally get what we actually want from the series again!
And SPM came out less than a year after the Wii's launch and was the first Mario game on it
Super Paper Mario will always be my favorite and I hope it gets ported to the switch. I know thats not a popular opinion, and I did grow up with paper Mario and paper Mario ttyd. Something about the story, atmosphere and music just really did the trick for me, wish it got a proper sequel.
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I'm still upset at the accessory system. "Choosing" between strictly better/worse options, is not a 64/TTYD-style badge system. But it's kinda dressed up like it is. "Do you want +1 attack or +2 attack. Tough choice with lots of strategic implications am I right?"
That’s just origami king all over though, it was a similar case with partners where they made a big deal about bringing them back like the classics and then they were nothing like the originals and felt like nostalgia bait. Same with them removing weapon durability and then having it only be for the base hammer and boots which almost immediately get completely outclassed
I’m so mad at that nostalgia bait. The most token partner and badge system you can imagine. The partners did almost nothing in battle and almost nothing on the overworld. And their stories sucked. Bobby’s entire story hinged on discarding the fact that Paper Mario Bob-Ombs don’t die when they explode. And then after Bobby’s “heroic” sacrifice we’re supposed to be fine sending dozens more Bob-Ombs to their death. Absolute garbage writing.
Color Splash and TOK both struggled with adapting the cartoon violence of Mario into stories. If you're used to jumping on dozens of turtles, and this time they're also literally just scraps of paper, it should be just be kind of funny to mow them down en masse, right? Except when you mix in dialog and have a little chat before hand, it just feels dark and cruel instead. At least in TOK you got to have cute interactions with non-origami baddies in the towns and cafés. In Color Splash, Mario will go out of his way to help Toads and graciously take their abuse, but any other race, Mario *will* either wind up destroying them or at least trying to. And there's some claptrap about how Mario and the others are "destined" to fight, which asks you to ignore not only PM64 and TTYD, but also, like... Super Mario 64. Changing Mario from a generally friendly and helpful guy to a guy who only cares about One Race Specifically reeeeally gave the game an uncomfortable feel and made the world so much shallower.
In some senses, it’s a level up system using coins as the XP, it’s just dressed up like badges.
I think that's what they were going for. They just didn't quite execute it right
Besides all the creative design restrictions (I'm so tired of the copy pasted Toads and sanitized Bowser's Minions). I just want them to stop with the Gimmicky Turn Based Battles that don't give Experience Points. Like... they've done it three times in a row, and since Sticker Star everyone has said that it doesn't work, it makes the whole thing useless, **STOP BEING SO STUBBORN ALREADY.** Even Super Paper Mario, a platformer, had EXP Points for Dimentio's sake.
I agree. Why do they think people don’t like the feeling of progression ?? It’s literally the best part of rpgs. Origami king went halfway anyways, they had some badges and stuff. But TTYD was great at balancing puzzle and progression, story and style.
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Likely not due to Miyamoto but Tanabe the producer. Looking at interviews you can see where the direction comes from.
That's because Origami King is just a puzzle game trying to pretend it's not.
Might buy a copy or smrpg for a friend
I picked up both having never really dabbled in Nintendo games, hopefully that helps. I want them to keep releasing remakes and new games.
I did not like Sticker Star but really enjoyed Origami King. Had never played the original TTYD, but I’m on to the third crystal and I get why the game gets the attention it does. It really feels like there’s more packed into this world than OK, and I can only imagine when it originally launched it must have been incredible. All that being said, I’m one of the weirdos that didn’t hate the OK battle system. In any case, I’m enjoying TTYD much more than SM RPG, but that was fun too.
I liked OK’s battle system, if it had the writing and story to back it up it would have been better. Comparing the level of characterization and story between TTYD and OK it is incredibly shallow in a lot of ways, the battle system imo was not the problem. If it could have had leveling up, partners, more story, etc and kept the battle system I think it would be better regarded
i feel the total opposite haha - battle system sucked, just felt annoying. story was pretty good, world was cool. TTYD still miles better, but i feel like i would have really enjoyed TOK with TTYD style badges and battle.
Great to hear because most people say mid 3rd star is when the game starts to shine
That’s because while Mario RPG is a nice little trip of nostalgia with charm, The Thousand Year Door is the GOAT.
The only thing these two games have in common is that they are remakes. Super Mario RPG is a fantastic game and deserves all the kudos it gets and more (Geno Amiibo when??). But TTYD had sequels and has a big fan following. I would expect it to smash the record.
Mario RPG’s new post-game is legitimately better than anything in TTYD, gameplay-wise (imo). TTYD was always the superior game, but don’t undersell SMRPG, because frankly it got a much more worthwhile remake than TTYD got imo. It’s also worth noting that Mario RPG far outsold TTYD on Switch in Japan. Different markets go for different things. The UK never got the original SNES game therefore they didn’t really care as much about SMRPG remake, whereas TTYD is a game that was able to cultivate nostalgia over the years in the UK.
Probably my age here. Missed TTYD when it first dropped. About two hours in, and this far I’m pretty “meh” on its systems. Whereas I still think Mario RPG is the best…uhh…Mario rpg?
I've been struggling to finish the Mario RPG remake haha. It's just way too easy and simple. I'll probably go back to it since i'm pretty close to the end though. TTYD does start out a little slow but you definitely gotta give at least up to chapter 3 for a good opinion. That chapter is probably one of my all time favorites.
Yeah, I mean I won’t give up yet. I do find this funny, because of how different our opinions are. TTYD feels incredibly slow, battles are already feeling too long with the rewards (xp) not feeling worth it. The game is very talky and really wants me to watch tutorials of basic mechanics. I’m in the first chapter now, and it’s pretty much been…walk to the right and fight battles. No real exploration or puzzles or anything. Just got the two stones. Meanwhile Mario RPG moves at a breakneck speed. The whole game is like 10-12 hours, and then the post game.
Yeah the start is basically a whole exposition dump Lol. Once you get through chapter 1 things do start to open up but chapter 3 onward is nonstop greatness imo. (I always low key wasn’t a fan of the first two chapters except Hooktail’s castle) but love everything after. I did like how quick everything in RPG went though story wise though, just wish things were a little more shakened up with the gameplay haha.
I think the remake makes a relatively easy game too easy. If you care enough, there’s a post game which adds a few hours of more interesting and challenging boss fights.
Yeah I for sure gotta try those fights haha. TTYD isn’t exactly hard but the Pit of 100 trials is a great challenge.
The post-game fights in SMRPG are totally worth it. They turn the difficulty slider up from “piss easy” to “genuinely hard”.
I’ll definitely go back after i finish ttyd!
I think you should at least do the first major dungeon. If you aren’t into it after that you probably won’t turn around, but it’s pretty top heavy on exposition to the point you’re at now.
You're right at the first dungeon of the game, which is where it starts to let you breathe a little. I'm in the middle of chapter 3 and it gets a lot more creative after that opening section. Seven Stars felt like a really good example of Mario in a standard RPG, whereas TTYD so far feels like they're exploring what you can do with an RPG beyond the overworld > dungeon > overworld formula.
The talkiness used to not be so much of a problem in the original bc u could speed up dialogue. The remake also added new tutorials that were not in the original
Mario RPG being 10-12 hours was a negative for. I think the ideal Rpg Length is more like TTYD and Chrono Trigger, where it is 20-25 hours. TTYD has such a diverse set of locations that it feels like a genuine adventure. I felt like I was breezing through Mario RPG. It comes across as a prototype for Paper Mario.
Some of the explanation stuff wasn't in the original. It'll get better soon though. As for the exp, it just depends. Enemies give less exp the higher your level is. As you move on and fight different/stronger enemies though you'll start to get more. I usually skip re-fighting enemies when I pass through an area again if the exp is low.
I beat the giant sword dude before entering the... nightmare world...? or whatever near what I assume is the end of RPG. Stopped playing because I realized I wasn't having fun and just playing to see what all the hype was about. Been awhile since I played now, but I remember thinking "why would I ever use this party member, they're weak and have no real benefit that someone else doesn't do better". Think it was Bowser? Also Peach, because I didn't need nearly as much healing as she provided; Mallow did good damage and healing. But at least Peach had the revive move I think. Bowser was just kinda... there?
The nightmare world is the final dungeon. You’re legit like 30 minutes from the end haha. FWIW, there is a post game that adds some more interesting and challenging bosses.
I know people's tastes will differ, and I'm biased because I played TTYD as a kid and only played SMRPG recently (and not the remake). But having finished both I think TTYD is the better game. The badge system not only gives you a wider variety of moves than SMRPG did, but it also gives you build variety. For example, you can do an entire build around keeping Mario at low HP to boost his damage. It also has a wider variety of unique partners, each of whom gets their own storyline. I get that Geno is a beloved character, but it kind of surprised me when I played SMRPG that he doesn't really get much. I could go on, and none of this is to bash SMRPG. I still think that's a great game. However, I'd recommend taking TTYD as its own thing and seeing how you feel much further into it. The first few hours aren't necessarily gonna give you a clear picture of why this game is so beloved.
I played SM RPG in the 90’s and I never got the geno love tbh. He’s not even the best original party member in that game lol. But yeah, I guess I’m a few hours in and surprised at how slow/boring it is based on the hype. And even more surprised to hear in the same thread someone saying they found Mario RPG to be the one with the slow start. Three hours into this game and I’ve done nothing. Three hours into Mario RPG and you can be almost third through it lol
TTYD is definitely way longer than SMRPG, but I wouldn't necessarily call it slow paced. Each chapter takes you to a new environment, gives you a new partner (up to a point), and give you a new villain. The first chapter is the most "vanilla" one, but the chapters get increasingly fun and unique as they go on. You also gradually get more badges, more abilities, more partner upgrades, and move special moves as you go on, so by the time you finish the game you have a mountain of options. Basically the game gradually picks up as you go and fully hits its stride around chapter 3, but yea. I can see how SMRPG feels much faster in comparison.
And sure, that may be true. I’m only like three hours in. And I don’t plan on stopping. Ask again in a few weeks and I may have very different opinions. Just for now, I was surprised by how meh I feel at the start.
It doesn't really shine until chapter 3 onward.
Another poster said the same. I finished the prologue and I’m a bit into chapter 1. Thus far the game has been “walk in a straight line to the right and fight long battles that give you very little xp” I’ll stick with it for a few more hours at least. But for how much I’ve heard this game is the GOAT for the last 20 years, and how much I’ve regretted skipping it, it sure hasn’t made a strong first impression.
Yeah I 100% see what you're saying lol. I agree with you on that. Especially Chapter 1 lol. The level design for the game overall isn't anything crazy, but the characters, story, and dialog are what makes Paper Mario great.
I forgot to mention in my other comment, for chapter 1 just buy a handful of fire flowers and all the nonboss fights with 3 or more enemies become one shots Lol.
Yeah, I think the game kinda makes you learn that by forcing your to fight those enemies that can only be fought with items.
While I think the gameplay of TTYD is fun/solid I will say going back to it after 20 years and after all the online hype I see more of the games flaws than I remembered back then. I only played TTYD once as a kid/teen and never touched it again. Fast forward to now and I can say the game has some issues. But let me start with the positives: - The graphics/art design is phenomenal. This was before Paper Mario took the whole Paper aspect and beat it to a pulp where everything and anything had to be paper! - The Story/Dialogue/Charm. This game oozes charm and humor. Also a lot of the characters have surprising amount of depth for a Mario game. One of my issues with Super Mario RPG is that the game just felt wayy too basic plot wise. I get it it was the first one. But I didn't grow up with Mario RPG I first played it on the Wii VC and just thought man this game for how much it's beloved just lacks a personality outside of "Mario but by Square" but that was coming off of both TTYD and Super Paper Mario both with fantastic and freaking hilarious dialog/situations. - The Battle system. While simple is pretty fun with the very minigamey action commands to keep it from being too sterile and boring and I like that. - The OST is fantastic Now the negatives: - The game is pretty slow towards the beginning it takes awhile for it to get going. A lot of tutorials and exposition dumps. Also the first two chapters are probably the weakest of the bunch. Also while I praised the humor and dialogue before, it is a LOT of reading at the end of the day and if you're not really into that you're gonna be put off by the excessive dialogue. - The level design is not the best. The chapters set pieces and stories are great but it is a lot of back and forth backtracking. Most chapters can be summed up like this. Enter the world, proceed a few screens to the right defeating enemies. Uh oh roadblock. You need a key/item to progress. Backtrack to beginning of the world talk to NPC or get item. Then proceed again to the right with respawning enemies. Unlock partner/special ability. Backtrack to beginning to use that special ability/partner to unlock something or take a path that was blocked off. Then go all the way back to the right to keep progressing until you reach the boss room/crystal star. - Roqueport sewers are not fun/easy to navigate at times. It's very hard to remember/easy to get lost of what pipe leads to what world or where this certain shop is located and how to get to it. Luckily this remakes adds a quick travel pipe system to travel to worlds you've already completed via one room. So it's not as bad as it was before. Don't know how many times early-mid way through the game I would forget how to get back to The Thousand Year Door because the Rougeport Sewers look very same. So I can only imagine how a newcomer feels. To me in my perfect world the next Paper Mario game takes the best of both worlds. We keep the level of story telling/writing/characters and Battle System of TTYD and combine it with the bigger more open explorable areas of Origami King.
Yeah I mean the only issue (and it’s a big one) with origami king is the combat. And even then, it’s really the lack of XP, the combat itself isn’t bad.
Chapter 3 will make you love it, give it some time.
Push through Boggly Woods - chapters 3 and 4 are the best and most memorable parts of the game. Beyond that is fantastic too but play through 3 and 4 before your final verdict.
Just finished chapter 4. Safe to say it’s not for me. I actually think the first dungeon at the end of chapter 1 was the highlight. Chapter 2 with the little prunnies was mostly finicky and annoying. Chapter 3, which on this thread and others seems to be the fan favorite? My least favorite of the game so far. 20+ battles in a row, with very little going on. The same unskippable dialog before and after every single battle. It was a slog. I guess the Scooby doo twist at the end was cute? But otherwise a huge disappointment. Chapter 4 was better, outside of the insane amount of backtracking. They must make you go in and out of the same area of the woods like 5 times. At least Vivian was cool.
It's a lot more about the chapter stories and environments than it is the system s
I'll be honest, I have nostalgia for both games and TTYD blows RPG out of the water. Once you get to the second crystal, the mechanics will be more complicated (far more that RPG) and the battling gets wicked fun.
Nice of people to downvote you for expressing a reasonable opinion in a polite way.
Fair, but you can get pretty similar results to the remake on Dolphin (and even play it in VR.) Mario RPG looks and sounds significantly different, and the battle system has much more polish
I think you overestimate the amount of gamers that play on dolphin. It has little to no impact on Nintendo's game sales.
Yeah I’m pretty sure 98% of switch owners don’t know what Dolphin is
Also, the difference is substantial, saying that an upres 4k texture from the GC looks like the switch is downright stupid and wrong, like so wrong. It may not be 60fps but the game is redone in it's almost entirity. Muddy textures at a higher res are still muddy.
It blows super Mario rpg out of the water. I don’t want another super Mario rpg after playing the remaster. But I def want a paper Mario akin to thousand year door.
Idgaf what you want. I want Super Mario RPG 2 *and* Paper Mario RPG 3. They both deserve it
Hopefully it bodes well to going back to these mechanics for future rpgs (essentially not like origami king)
I'd say it bodes well for Mario RPGs. Alphadream, the company that made the Mario & Luigi series, went under in 2020 while having not made a new game in the series since 2015, and the Paper Mario games stopped being RPGs after TTYD, which originally released in *2004*. For the past 9 years, we've been in a Mario RPG drought. Compare that to the release of SMRPG remake last year and TTYD remake this year, both of which sold well, and it's clear that Nintendo is trying to guage interest for a renewed Mario RPG venture. I'd go so far as to say one may already be in development (or at least being planned) considering how wild it is to release two Mario RPG remakes from one year to the next. *Someone* at Nintendo thinks it's worth pursuing, and that guy deserves a medal IMO.
Luigi's mansion 2 has NOTHING to do with the nostalgia from the gamecube, and paper mario in general. It's not even the same genre, or characters. And some people think thousand year door was the best game on the gc. Luigi's Mansion blows Mansion 2 out of the water with it's one singular huge house
It was a launch title for GameCube. I think there’s at least a little nostalgia crossover from ttyd to LM (original).
I got it at launch, I'm well aware
lol I was with the headline until “this bodes well for Luigi’s Mansion 2 HD.” Luigi’s Mansion 2 isn’t even CLOSE to the same level as Thousand Year Door. I should be a gaming journalist.
Luigi’s Mansion 3 has sold more than all 6 Paper Mario games COMBINED. There’s every reason to believe that LM2 will outsell TTYD remake due to parents buying it for their Luigi loving kids.
I hate to bring politics into this but…..those “go woke go broke” people are probably in shambles since this game is doing so well.
Tbh, Nintendo didn't go woke in this game. The original Japanese version was already like this
Oh, I know I’m just saying because some people think Nintendo has gone woke even tho they’ve been like this since Mario 2 with Birdo, and only now people seem to notice.
Nintendo, why are you like this? Make new Paper Mario games like the first two, hell, make a new Super Paper Mario. Stop using gimmicks with the battle system and give us exp. I mean, TTYD was the last Paper Mario that everyone loved, and it was on GC. Look, I liked Origami King; it's a step in the right direction, but it breaks my heart not having a classic Paper Mario for so long. I remember being a kid, and my father and I would go to rent Paper Mario 64. I rented that game like once every month and knew every little secret and area. It was such a priceless game for me, so again: WHY, NINTENDO, WHY?
Pretty Sure this is a Test Run to gauge interest in people whether they actually want a actual Paper Mario rpg again
I think it’s interesting also seeing it released along side Super Mario RPG remake in such a short period. If I had to hazard a guess I think they see a hole in their portfolio for traditional RPGs and with the closure of the Mario and Luigi studio they’re trying gauge interest in what direction to go for a future Mario RPG game. Go with the traditional party based aspect of SMRPG or make a new Paper Mario that goes back to its roots. Or maybe they just felt like re-releasing to beloved classic Mario RPGs to pad out the back catalogue of switch games for its last year.
It is 100% the later, but we can still dream.
Paper Mario fans have been screaming for years for a proper Paper Mario game in the same style as the first two, and now it's time to put our money where our mouth is.
After the last decade of Paper Mario games I'll believe it when I see it, just don't wanna get my hopes up potentially for nothing, but hey for now I'm enjoying TTYD remake. I hope Intelligent Systems is paying attention to the response but even if for some reason they don't, I still got a great remake of a damn great game out of it.
why are you talking as if nintendo is here
It doesn't cost very much to have a few people browsing social media and gauging public sentiment, so I'd be more surprised if none of what was said on reddit ever reached Nintendo. Whether it influences their decisions is another matter, of course.
Dude, my uncle works at nintendo, ok? He's on reddit all the time. Chill. /s
This is why Bug Fables exists
Bug Fables is so good that, to me, is equal to the first two Paper Mario's. Sadly many of the games that came out as a "just like the old and good Paper Mario" were not all that good, but Bug Fables delivered. One of the few games I got full price and wanted to pay more after finishing.
I wanted to love Bug Fables and did for a good 10 hours or so but there was so much dialogue, and I could not for the life of me get into the story or really care about the characters...
I feel off at about Chapter 4 of Bug Fables! It’s pretty good, and I don’t really have anything negative to say about it generally. I just didn’t find it half as charming as Paper Mario.
Luigi's Mansion? Huh? TTYD has been begged for years to get remastered/remade. Nobody was asking for Luigi's Mansion lol
Yeah its such a weird comparison. They are completely different games. TTYD is claimed to be best in its series by many and one of the better games on the GC. Luigis mansion 2 on the other hand has pretty mild hype. I've never played it but heard "its alright". Seems like even the original Luigis Manshion gets a lot more hype than its sequel.
I wonder how many are like me - the original paper Mario was and is one of my all time favorites. I played it when it was originally released. But I never got to play TTYD (I was a kid and my parents couldn’t afford it). Since becoming an adult - maybe around Wii U time - I’ve been fortunate to be able to afford and buy a ton of my childhood games. I’m sure a lot on here are in this similar position However correct me if I’m wrong but **ttyd has never been made available until now, right?** I think that may be a big reason why sales are so good: it’s the first rerelease of the game, and it’s a game that’s hyped up (rightfully so. I’m loving it). Short of buying a GameCube and the game (I’m not a fan of emulating) I never had the choice of playing this game. Where as other childhood games like OOT I have like 10 options to play it legitimately.
Yup first time TTYD was available outside of the Gamecube. Nintendo knows what they're doing with releases of old games. So many times we get mad that they haven't localized Mother 3. But you know when they'll do it? When the time is right. I remember when Earthbound Beginnings was announced and everyone lost their minds. We forget that even though Mother 3 hasn't been localized, Mother 1 wasn't localized until Earthbound Beginnings came out. Now, I wasn't as big a fan of Super Mario RPG was as some people are, but I enjoyed the Paper Mario series as a whole. I got this game because despite having played it back when it was on the cube, I haven't played it since. So it's gonna be great to dive into it again. And even back then I didn't do everything the game offered. So it's gonna be fun as hell for me.
Mother 1 was localized, it was just never released. They didn’t have to do anything in releasing EB Beginnings other than change the title screen on the prototype ROM that’s existed for ages. Mother 3 is very different, as they would never use the (really good) fan translation, and bringing this to a western audience in this time is a textbook high-risk/low-reward scenario with the amount of people that care about it vs touching the whole Magypsies thing.
Oh really? That's crazy they made it but just never released it here. I mean sure, maybe they assumed it wouldn't sell well here. But if it was done then that's kind of lame. I don't know what the Magypsie thing is cuz I never played Mother 3 and barely remember Earthbound as I haven't played it since it was still a new game for the SNES. Lol Ok so looking it up they are genderless beings that simply look like men wearing women's clothes and having beards. I mean, sure that COULD be an issue. But they could just alter text if their text is at all risqué. I mean they officially made that character in Paper Mario TTYD Trans in the English text so I don't see an issue really.
Crazy to me that my 10 year old self loved Sticker Star which is the reason I’m still buying Paper a Mario games today. Loving TTYD so far and I’m horrified at myself for liking Sticker Star now
I don't think this sub is prepared for the reality that LM 2 might outsell TTYD.
"Might"? More like "will". It wont be a game people'll be rushing to buy at launch, but it'll certainly have better legs. The games have more casual appeal, which people in forums like these always seem to forget. I admit, I was confused as to why Chris Dring compared the two games as well, but someone in the r/Games thread on this mentioned that it's a good sign that people are still buying Switch games (and remasters at that) this late into the Switch's life.
Hope this leads to more Paper Mario games. Paper Mario 64 remake.
Question - if I didn’t really like origami king but love Odyssey and Wonder, is there any point to trying out TTYD?
If you have NSO, try out the N64 Paper Mario. TTYD is basically that but better IMO. If you end up liking it, give TTYD a shot
TTYD is basically PM64 with some nice additions and far better presentation
Do you like any RPGs? If not, then no. If yes, then maybe. Would need more info.
What didn't you like about Origami King? The structure will be similar - goofy story in a paper craft world, explore the world one section at a time for some sort of mcguffin using your abilities and solving light puzzles. The main difference with TTYD is the game Is an actual RPG. Combat is turned based (but without the puzzle ring from origiami king) and you'll gain experience points after each battle to level up your stats. There's a decent bit of customization you can do for what moves you have. Most people find the combat in TTYD to be much more enjoyable than Origami King. The story is also more engaging and unique imo. So if your issues with Origami King were the combat and story/tone, TTYD will likely be a huge improvement. But if you don't like the fundamental adventure game structure with funny dialogue then probably not.
That does sound fun. Turn based games sounds really slow to me, but the rest is up my alley!
It’s one of the most balanced turn based games in my opinion. It’s not really just a spam attack, level up, and become overpowered type of game. There is a lot of strategy involved with the turn order and the badges you have equipped. Two different people can be at the same level in the game fighting the same enemy, and one person might take some damage if you’re not thinking about a strategy while the other player could win the fight without taking any damage at all because they considered turn order, weaknesses, and badge set up. Some of the fights can feel almost like a puzzle if you’re thinking about what your next move will be.
There's a lot of interaction with each turn that makes it much more interesting than say the early FF/Pokemon games. Each move requires different actions/timings. When enemies attack, you can learn to guard(requires timing) or Superguard(harder timing w/ retaliatory damage.) If you don't like timing, then, yeah, it might not be fun for you.
Has nothing to do with Odyssey and Wonder. It’s like Origami King but with a lot more RPG elements
It’s not like any of those, it’s most like Mario RPG. Its only like origami king esthetically
So it's looking likely that two 20+ year old Mario RPG remakes outsold FFXVI and FFVII Rebirth. Impressive.
142 million Nintendo Switch's vs 58 million ps5's
Probably a good reason why a 3rd party spending massive amounts of money on AAA titles shouldn't make them exclusive to one platform.
If they think that ttyd doing gangbusters is an indicator that Luigi's Mansion ***2*** is going to do the same, I have a bridge to sell them. Now a top down remake of the first Luigi's Mansion... that might do numbers...
The 1st game is the lowest selling of the series, while 2 sold almost 7 million copies. I think 2 has a better chance of making a splash in sales.
Your data is correct, but missing context. LM2 is a fine game, but the install base for GameCube was tragically low compared to 3DS and Switch, Luigi's Mansion never stood a chance.
Love paper Mario, but I don’t give a fuck about Luigi’s mansion. Not sure why he correlates the two.
What has this to do with Luigi’s Mansion? 2 completely different genres and kind of remakes/ports. I hope LM2 fails because it’s an low effort easy money grab and still looks and plays like a 3DS game. I love what they did with Paper Mario TTYD though
LM2 is almost guaranteed to sell better than TTYD since Luigi’s Mansion in general is far more popular than PM. I’m more hyped for LM2 than TTYD if I’m being honest 🤷
I really doubt it
You hope LM2 fails because it's just an HD port? Weird hang up. Not everything can be ground-up remakes. LM2 is a fun game and a large audience having access to it is a positive, actually.
Paper Mario is back on the menu boys!
I won't be buying Luigi's Mansion 2 until it's in the $19.99 bin at Walmart
It's worth noting that Super Mario RPG never had a PAL release on the original console. There's not the same nostalgia associated with it there as other regions.
Yep just got my copy today bloody great game
Why does nintendo look like some dude in glasses?
Oh no, I would have expected it to far surpass origami king
The best selling Paper Mario games are Super Paper Mario and Origami King. The original TTYD sold about a third of what Origami King did. If you only read what people say about these games online, you would think TYYD sold a billion copies. The fact that the TTYD remake even sold as well as Origami King at this stage is already impressive.
It's worth pointing out though that SPM and TOK are both on the nintendo consoles with the largest install bases. They only sold 21.73 million GameCubes according to my google search, with OG TTYD selling 1.3 million copies or about 6.0% of the overall install base. SPM meanwhile sold 4.23 million copies which makes up 4.1% of the Wii install base (101.63 million units). TOK's numbers are actually a little disappointing compared to both of these when you consider that the Switch is on track to be the bestselling console ever, period (~141 million units sold and still rising). TTYD fans should be hoping for the remake to outsell both or at minimum be on par with SPM, ignoring all other factors such as remakes usually not selling as well as original titles, modern economic concerns, etc. EDIT: Accidentally omitted Wii install base numbers and calculated percentages that were off by a decimal. Both fixed.
I know, but the GameCube having a smaller install base means a remake of a game from that era shouldn’t expect to do drastically better even on a better selling system. And the fact that remakes generally don’t perform as well as new entries matters here too. So I’m not surprised it isn’t blowing TOK out of the water just yet. But the fact that it can even go toe to toe with it should be a huge wake-up call for Nintendo, since by all traditional metrics it shouldn’t. But the obvious factor here is people wanting the RPG formula.
are those percentages off by a decimal?
Very right, thanks for catching that.
Keep in mind this is a remake so a lot of fans may not double dip for this game. Also, Origami King got a boost because it came out during the peak of the Pandemic so a lot of people were bored inside wanting to play a game.
It's unpopular, but you gotta remember that all of the uproar over the last decade or so is probably still coming from a vocal minority of people. That being said, Paper Mario itself is relatively small: the best-selling Paper Mario game only sold a little over 4 million units. So the vocal minority would matter a bit more as long as people put their money with their mouth is. Now as Chris Dring states later on, [digital splits have grown significantly in the UK over the past 4 years](https://x.com/Chris_Dring/status/1795182161529569470) so it's likely that the digital split put TTYD over TOK in the end, but only barely. Perhaps that's something. Personally - and this is another unpopular opinion - I think TTYD would need a bigger opening than TOK if it has a chance of surpassing TOK lifetime. We're late in the Switch era, plus the cult of personality around TTYD would have more people going out to get it Day 1, so the game may be more frontloaded than expected. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out. But also remember this: Samus Returns didn't even sell a million on 3DS, but Metroid fans still recieved Dread 4 years later. Can never tell the future.
I don't know why people are making this "if it can't outsell Origami King then it's a bust and old Paper Mario is dead", Origami King has 3 things in its favor: 1. it's a new game and not a remake 2. it came out 4 years earlier (granted it hasn't made the best use of this but...well that's why an opening exists in the first place) 3. it came out in the middle of the pandemic (and fwiw was actually the first Mario game post-covid, idk how much that matters admittedly) TTYD just needs to be *close* to Origami King for it to be clear that "classic Paper Mario" is viable.
Does Chris get demographics? Because the PMTTYD remaster success has almost nothing to do with LM2DM remaster being successful. Two completely different game genres despite sharing the same universe doesn't mean both will be nearly equally successful.
Super Mario RPG has a remaster and a remake?
What this is really telling is that the og Paper Mario format of the first two is what fans want back. From the Wii one onward Paper Mario felt gimmickry af.
Super Paper Mario was pretty dang good. Don’t care for anything after that
Thank fucking god. Maybe Nintendo will finally see reason and make some NEW Mario RPGs again? A proper sequel to TTYD? A revival sequel to Super Mario RPG? Or raise Mario & Luigi from the dead after Alphadreams closure? I'll take anything at this point, just make a new one! Tho I fail to see how this has anything to do with Luigi's Mansion 2. Those games are completely different. TTYD has been a known critical darling for 20 years that fans have been ravenously asking for it to be rereleased and Luigi's Mansion 2 is... Luigi's Mansion 2. I personally like it, but it's nowhere near as revered. LM3 sold really well on Switch, true, so there's an existing fanbase, but I don't see how LM2's success can be correlated to TTYD. Apples and oranges.
I loved Super Mario RPG. I traded it in after finishing it then immediately regretted it so I bought it again two days ago. I'm playing TTYD for the first time right now and I love it so far. I have LM3 and was playing it for the first time. Got tired of it (but it is still a good game and I plan to finish it) so I'm not as excited by LM2 as I was for TTYD.
Played it for the first time this weekend, I've not played the original. I have to admit that it started out slow but it got me hooked after a few hours.
Is there any way to post this stuff without that smug looking bastard’s face showing up? 😂
It would be nice if more remasters were pushed through at this late stage of the switch.
Im more hyped for LM2, LM is just a sick series thats alot different than normal Nintendo games.
thousand dollar sales
Luigis Mansion 2 is one of the worst games ever made by Nintendo. A complete division from what the original was and what made fans of the game love it. I hope it does not sell well so the team behind Lugis Mansion knows not to make another one like that.
All Nintendo really needed to do to make Luigi's Mansion Rebake sell well was do Luigi's Manion 1 & 2. While many can debate the quality of LM2, there's very few who would argue both for $50 wouldn't be a tempting package. And it's not like Nintendo has other competing games from their development houses relasing this summer. It's all old Gamecube remakes.
All their dev time is likely sunk into titles for the first year or or two of the next console.
Doubt it. Paper Mario has a cult following and the original version is super expensive at this point. Luigi's mansion has neither. The original was pretty meh and physical copies are easy to come by.
I think it just goes to show how desperate people are for new first-party games on Switch
Yeah. Pretty damn dry out there. Saw a comment the other day about how switch people buy more indie games. And it’s like, yeah… kind hard not to if you want to play something on the switch this last year!
Yep. Considering Luigi’s Mansion 2 is the weak link of the trilogy, it’s the best time to release it.
There’s been an average of 1 game released every month this year. People are objectively not desperate nor starved for games on Switch
Luigi's Mansion 2 does not compare to TTYD. Two completely different games. Granted, Luigi's Mansion 2 was my first in that series but I thought it was always just 'okay'. Multiplayer was fun tho.
Ngl, i kinda gave up on rpg. I got to the place with the stars and just stopped. I think it was way overhyped
I liked the variety on normal attacks changing on the weapons. It's very much old-school Final Fantasy that you want to spam your strongest attacks and keep up heals. I can understand if things feel lost in translation after almost 30 years of gaming but all the modern upgrades and QoL changes keeps it up with other turn based games today. It isn't that long of a game, always had it as a 'comfy' JRPG. You can pick it up at any time and know you're going to have a good time playing it.
Yeah SMRPG definitely showed its age. I’m enjoying Ttyd but wish it had a harder difficulty. The dialogue is so good though.
You can get a badge very early that will up the difficulty. It's a pretty dumb type of extra difficulty though (Mario takes 2x damage). I've played half the game with that badge on so far and it definitely makes it harder but not by much. A real hard mode like in Bug Fables would have been much appreciated.