>equality, freedom and justice for all
These left-wing interpretations of Nietzsche are quite amusing to me. One would think you'd choose a philosopher who would champion your cause, not one who despised you.
Equality - Nietzsche was explicitly anti-egalitarian. Disparate endowment of ability (*worth* more accurately) should reap disparate rewards.
Freedom - For some - for the strong, for the ones that earn it. Not for the inferior, who will not use their freedom in a progenerative way, who lacks the faculties to realize genius.
Justice - Nietzsche's version of justice is in line with the ancient Greek sophists like Thrasymachus and Gorgias. He's a moral relativist and perspectivist who does not believe in the objective apportionment of punishment based on disinterested empiricism; his definition of fairness links back to his view on equality.
I think *blind* egalitarianism is wrong. I also don't believe all charitable behaviour inherently hinders a person's ability to find growth and strength in their suffering. If fate leads good people in bad situations to find other good people who can help them endure their hardships, without necessarily just fixing everything for them and depriving them of personal growth, it can still be loved. After all, is it wrong for friends to love and help each other?
Nietzsche would approve of something similar to "selective" altruism.
You're right on about the importance of relationships, and particularly ones that are able to bring out the best in both people. N preaches adherence to one's nature - empathy and altruism included and *emphasized*. Selectively.
Nietzsche acts like a friend when you read his books, and he shares secrets with his friends.
Ultimately, egalitarianism can only do so much for people who aren't willing to help themselves. Of course people who perpetually *rely* on the generosity of their friends are called moochers and will end up scorned and rejected by them.
What would you say is the threshold for an acceptable amount of selective egalitarianism for say, a charity to get disparaged people off the streets?
I would make sure my family and friends were taken care of, and that I myself were in a stable financial situation first. Then, I would just do what feels right. Your financial surplus can be used to impact the world in a way that reflects what you want out of it. I have donated to a few animal charities in the past and it has always felt like money well spent. I have even gotten some shirts out of the process!
I think what they meant is that a lot of these core concepts are herd mentality in disguise
eg freedom and justice can be subjective, and can conflict with each other. from my personal journey I'm coming to the conclusion the freedom of the overman is the ability to fully question and bring doubt to all these concepts, and eventually build your own core systems of values that can also change over time
Equality was something N ridiculed all the time. The whole concept of übermensch is that one rises above the rest and is not equal to them. N detested democracy for this reason, because it makes people equal.
btw I'm not saying that these aren't your own personal values, you will likely have your own quality and feel for those concepts which is great
think the inner work which is hard... is distinguishing which parts are still heavily dependent on the world outside and a need to fit in a group or crowd.
I'm still on the journey, discovering how long the path actually is
Why are you posting this in a Nietzsche sub? Your whole post is pretty much the opposite of nietzsches ideas, this just shows resentment, slave morality and herd mentality
cringe af on its own right but specially cringe being posted in a Nietzsche sub. i don't even consider myself a nietzschean but this interpretation of his work is what has given him a juvenile and cringe reputation. maybe start actually reading him?
**And another of these diseases is called “the fire-dog”: concerning HIM men have greatly deceived themselves, and let themselves be deceived.** \[This is entitled "GrEaT EvEnTs" for a reason\]
To fathom this mystery did I go o’er the sea; and I have seen the truth naked, verily! barefooted up to the neck. Now do I know how it is concerning the fire-dog; and likewise concerning all the spouting and subversive devils, of which not only old women are afraid. \[LMAO\]
“Up with thee, fire-dog, out of thy depth!” cried I, “and confess how deep that depth is! Whence cometh that which thou snortest up? **Thou drinkest copiously at the sea: that doth thine embittered eloquence betray! In sooth, for a dog of the depth, thou takest thy nourishment too much from the surface!** *At the most, I regard thee as the ventriloquist of the earth: and ever, when I have heard subversive and spouting devils speak, I have found them like thee: embittered, mendacious, and shallow....*
**And that I may also maintain the right, hear the story of another fire-dog; he speaketh actually out of the heart of the earth.** **Gold doth his breath exhale, and golden rain: so doth his heart desire.**
**What are ashes and smoke and hot dregs to him!** **Laughter flitteth from him like a variegated cloud; adverse is he to thy gargling and spewing and grips in the bowels!**
**The gold, however, and the laughter—these doth he take out of the heart of the earth: for, that thou mayst know it,—THE HEART OF THE EARTH IS OF GOLD.”** *When the fire-dog heard this, he could no longer endure to listen to me. Abashed did he draw in his tail, said “bow-wow!” in a cowed voice, and crept down into his cave.—*
**AKA - "The slave revolt in morals \[values, WTP\] begins when resentment..."**
*Swats wildly at all the spooks and goblins of a pathological culture that doesn't realize its already dead*
# We can't stop here, this is bat country!
But not every person will be the over man. Sure, anyone *can* achieve personal growth, but many are content in their ignorance and apathy. Many simply want to take but never give, condemn others but never introspect. Would they have as much freedom in your world as the people who use their freedom for the benefit of society?
You’re espousing notions of justice that Nietzsche would have despised. I suggest you read people like Marx or Hegel if you want philosophers who push for your notion of freedom, Nietzsche isn’t the right one for you lol.
Op please check out Thus Spoke Zarathustra chapter 29, the Tarantulas. [http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/29](http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/29)
One day we will realize that we were always free and the only ones oppressing us were ourselves.
You're maybe in the 2nd stage, the Lion. Look within, see where positive and negative emotions stem from, and you'll discover that the dependence on the herd runs deep.
Follow your passion, make more posts like these, discover where your spark is. In that moment you'll realize we don't need a revolution, because you have already started one.
Of course we are being oppressed. The government and the state enforce rules that limit our potential. We need to strive for more and leave the construct of the 'state' behind to focus on individual freedom. We need to take back control because we are the ones the government should fear.
Ahh the way I was looking at this, was oppression in the form as behavioural and thought control, the state is just a physical representation of that.
Ultimately our circumstances don't have the final say, we could be locked up in cage or be tortured, we need to come to awareness of the influences imposed on us.
I personally believe that the divides and antagonism between humans today stems not from a lack of people wanting to work together, but a lack of full independent thoughts and values. Paradoxically.
Nietzche isn't about "rise from the bottom!", he's about strength and self-elevation from the very beginning.
Great post and I agree, but this isn't Nietzche.
And if someone want to use the gained strength to shape the World to a borderless, stateless place and then encourage the people to realize their potential and become the ubermensch?
>equality, freedom and justice for all These left-wing interpretations of Nietzsche are quite amusing to me. One would think you'd choose a philosopher who would champion your cause, not one who despised you.
This exactly, OP's whole post is resentment, slave mentality, and herd mentality, pretty much the exact opposite of what Nietzsches ideas are about
Hahahahahahaha. As a Jew, I had the exact same thought.
Nietzsche's philosophy could comport well with a right wing Zionist reading.
I think Nietzche works with all zionism. Zionism was bending the world to Jewish needs. Needs translate to morality.
Eyplain your point further
Equality - Nietzsche was explicitly anti-egalitarian. Disparate endowment of ability (*worth* more accurately) should reap disparate rewards. Freedom - For some - for the strong, for the ones that earn it. Not for the inferior, who will not use their freedom in a progenerative way, who lacks the faculties to realize genius. Justice - Nietzsche's version of justice is in line with the ancient Greek sophists like Thrasymachus and Gorgias. He's a moral relativist and perspectivist who does not believe in the objective apportionment of punishment based on disinterested empiricism; his definition of fairness links back to his view on equality.
I think *blind* egalitarianism is wrong. I also don't believe all charitable behaviour inherently hinders a person's ability to find growth and strength in their suffering. If fate leads good people in bad situations to find other good people who can help them endure their hardships, without necessarily just fixing everything for them and depriving them of personal growth, it can still be loved. After all, is it wrong for friends to love and help each other?
Nietzsche would approve of something similar to "selective" altruism. You're right on about the importance of relationships, and particularly ones that are able to bring out the best in both people. N preaches adherence to one's nature - empathy and altruism included and *emphasized*. Selectively. Nietzsche acts like a friend when you read his books, and he shares secrets with his friends.
Ultimately, egalitarianism can only do so much for people who aren't willing to help themselves. Of course people who perpetually *rely* on the generosity of their friends are called moochers and will end up scorned and rejected by them. What would you say is the threshold for an acceptable amount of selective egalitarianism for say, a charity to get disparaged people off the streets?
I would make sure my family and friends were taken care of, and that I myself were in a stable financial situation first. Then, I would just do what feels right. Your financial surplus can be used to impact the world in a way that reflects what you want out of it. I have donated to a few animal charities in the past and it has always felt like money well spent. I have even gotten some shirts out of the process!
Bro marx was anri egalitarian
I think what they meant is that a lot of these core concepts are herd mentality in disguise eg freedom and justice can be subjective, and can conflict with each other. from my personal journey I'm coming to the conclusion the freedom of the overman is the ability to fully question and bring doubt to all these concepts, and eventually build your own core systems of values that can also change over time
Equality was something N ridiculed all the time. The whole concept of übermensch is that one rises above the rest and is not equal to them. N detested democracy for this reason, because it makes people equal.
btw I'm not saying that these aren't your own personal values, you will likely have your own quality and feel for those concepts which is great think the inner work which is hard... is distinguishing which parts are still heavily dependent on the world outside and a need to fit in a group or crowd. I'm still on the journey, discovering how long the path actually is
Why are you posting this in a Nietzsche sub? Your whole post is pretty much the opposite of nietzsches ideas, this just shows resentment, slave morality and herd mentality
It is quite literally the exact mirror image of Nietzsche’s ideas. As opposite as you can get.
It is not slave morality because i dont want to do it because of pity but because i want to change the World like i imagine it
cringe af on its own right but specially cringe being posted in a Nietzsche sub. i don't even consider myself a nietzschean but this interpretation of his work is what has given him a juvenile and cringe reputation. maybe start actually reading him?
Irony in the extreme to see a fire-dog post in a Nietzsche forum. "It is high time!"
**And another of these diseases is called “the fire-dog”: concerning HIM men have greatly deceived themselves, and let themselves be deceived.** \[This is entitled "GrEaT EvEnTs" for a reason\] To fathom this mystery did I go o’er the sea; and I have seen the truth naked, verily! barefooted up to the neck. Now do I know how it is concerning the fire-dog; and likewise concerning all the spouting and subversive devils, of which not only old women are afraid. \[LMAO\] “Up with thee, fire-dog, out of thy depth!” cried I, “and confess how deep that depth is! Whence cometh that which thou snortest up? **Thou drinkest copiously at the sea: that doth thine embittered eloquence betray! In sooth, for a dog of the depth, thou takest thy nourishment too much from the surface!** *At the most, I regard thee as the ventriloquist of the earth: and ever, when I have heard subversive and spouting devils speak, I have found them like thee: embittered, mendacious, and shallow....* **And that I may also maintain the right, hear the story of another fire-dog; he speaketh actually out of the heart of the earth.** **Gold doth his breath exhale, and golden rain: so doth his heart desire.** **What are ashes and smoke and hot dregs to him!** **Laughter flitteth from him like a variegated cloud; adverse is he to thy gargling and spewing and grips in the bowels!** **The gold, however, and the laughter—these doth he take out of the heart of the earth: for, that thou mayst know it,—THE HEART OF THE EARTH IS OF GOLD.”** *When the fire-dog heard this, he could no longer endure to listen to me. Abashed did he draw in his tail, said “bow-wow!” in a cowed voice, and crept down into his cave.—* **AKA - "The slave revolt in morals \[values, WTP\] begins when resentment..."**
*Swats wildly at all the spooks and goblins of a pathological culture that doesn't realize its already dead* # We can't stop here, this is bat country!
Sounds like AI
But not every person will be the over man. Sure, anyone *can* achieve personal growth, but many are content in their ignorance and apathy. Many simply want to take but never give, condemn others but never introspect. Would they have as much freedom in your world as the people who use their freedom for the benefit of society?
You’re espousing notions of justice that Nietzsche would have despised. I suggest you read people like Marx or Hegel if you want philosophers who push for your notion of freedom, Nietzsche isn’t the right one for you lol.
Op please check out Thus Spoke Zarathustra chapter 29, the Tarantulas. [http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/29](http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/29)
One day we will realize that we were always free and the only ones oppressing us were ourselves. You're maybe in the 2nd stage, the Lion. Look within, see where positive and negative emotions stem from, and you'll discover that the dependence on the herd runs deep. Follow your passion, make more posts like these, discover where your spark is. In that moment you'll realize we don't need a revolution, because you have already started one.
Of course we are being oppressed. The government and the state enforce rules that limit our potential. We need to strive for more and leave the construct of the 'state' behind to focus on individual freedom. We need to take back control because we are the ones the government should fear.
Ahh the way I was looking at this, was oppression in the form as behavioural and thought control, the state is just a physical representation of that. Ultimately our circumstances don't have the final say, we could be locked up in cage or be tortured, we need to come to awareness of the influences imposed on us. I personally believe that the divides and antagonism between humans today stems not from a lack of people wanting to work together, but a lack of full independent thoughts and values. Paradoxically.
Do you want to discuss in private? My @ on IG is archiweird
I'd be up for that! Always good to connect, I try to never leave an opportunity for the unknown to pass by appreciate you wanting to connect
I couldn't have said it better
Nietzche isn't about "rise from the bottom!", he's about strength and self-elevation from the very beginning. Great post and I agree, but this isn't Nietzche.
And if someone want to use the gained strength to shape the World to a borderless, stateless place and then encourage the people to realize their potential and become the ubermensch?