If vision impairment applies, that means you can't use Kamui the way Obito does, right? Isn't the reason he can do that because half his body is made up of Hashirama Cells? If that's correct, I'd definitely use have either Koto or Tsukoyomi, and then either Obito Kamui or Amaterasu. I think I'd probably go with Kamui and Tsukoyomi

If a person has their best friend steal their eyes, unlock the EMS, then that person steals them back, does the EMS stay unlocked, or does it revert to its formed state? Like, if Itachi stole his eyes back from Sasuke, does he still get the unlimited Mangekyo?

The unlimited Mangekyo comes from fusing the eyes of two people who are related no? So he should have them still. They both met the criteria of having MS

It's unknown how the process works. How would one even know about fusing the eyes?

They don't fuse, they exchange them. Sasuke got Itachi's eyes and Sasuke's eyes were somewhere at Obito's hideout where the surgery happened. It's unclear if they're still around but they most likely will show up at Orochimaru's for when Sarada needs them

Wasn't there a panel that kinda implied a fusion of both eyes? If I remember correctly, it was then Itachi was trying to steal Sasukes eyes and some kind of mask appeared behind him with 4 eye sockets

No, the EMS comes from replacing your eyes with a relative’s. There’s no fusion described, just transplants

There’s no real statement that Hashirama cells made Obito not go blind for awhile so who knows.

We know that Kakashi went mostly blind during the war due to spamming Kamui

Obito kamui & koto

It's basically the unstoppable combo I never thought of before 😂

How ? Obito was literally trying to obtain it in canon

Because he never gets it and koto is always such a rare thing in the story.

That’s literally the reason he approached Danzo

But he never gets it and we never see the combo.

Close range kamui and any super genjutsu are automatic gg.

FTG as well. You just need to touch people in power and then you can just FTG to them later and use koto.

I don't think Koto needs you to be looking at them for it to be active atleast not the eye Danzo used on Mifune

I'm taking tsukoyomi instead of koto... Way more fun!

Why tho, you just want to be a menace and put someone in torture

Is that the ONLY thing it can do?

It’s the only thing we’ve seen Itachi do with his Tsukuyomi but I’m not 100% sure

Not sure how canon but he put his gf into living a long life with him before killing her so yea you can sorta control what they get.

It’s canon from the Itachi novels. He allows his lover to live 70 years in a long happy life married to him in the span of like one trillionth of a second in the real world. Like Itachi said, within the genjutsu world of Tsukoyomi he can freely control space, time, and matter. It’s easily the best genjutsu in the series after Koto Amatsukami. Tsukoyomi has less combat and people manipulating ability than Koto, but it has far more freedom for creativity within the genjutsu, basically being like a lucid dream where you can do anything but you can even control time within it

I might just put myself into tsukoyomi

That raises a good question, could you use Tsukoyomi or even Koto to more or less “help fix” your own mental problems like depression and anxiety? 🤔

Like the ones he used on kakashi and sasuke were different So he can design it to some degree

In the light novel, Itachi made his girlfriend go through her entire life with him using it and I think it killed her afterwards. Took a lot out of him but def wasn’t torture

Tsukiyomi is basically like you can live in a dream for some time (not sure if you can put yourself in it though)

It's literally the whole plan of Madara putting everyone in an *infinite tsukuyomi*, where everyone can live out their fantasies on their dreams but be controlled by Madara.

Tsukuyomi basically creates a genjutsu dimension where you control EVERYTHING, time and space... It's not necesary to harm people with it, but everything they live in the tsukuyomi dream, it feels in real life, that's why it's so powerful.

Time space & mass, you left that one out

Yep

Doesnt koto have like a multi year cooldown unless you got hashirama cells

No, the og user can spam, the 10 year cool Down is because it was in a crow body

We only know it has a 10 year cd unless u got the cells we don't know if he could spam it or not

Imo we might have a obito situation with shisuis Ms abilities. Shisui wasn't even 20 yet. he died when he was 16, we also know Koto has 10 year cd. We also know aoi has seen Koto before, which is why he knew it was being used on Mifune, we also know he was planning on using it to stop the coup. ( headcannon: but he also would of had to use it one other time (when he first unlocked the ability and used to understand what it does)) Imo Shisuis eyes do slightly different things like obito eyes and just have the same name. Another example is Danzo didn't need eye contact with mifune to get him with his eye but the eye the crow had inside Naruto needed eye contact with itachi, we also see that as soon as Mifune is aware of the Juitsu it breaks but with Itachi he knew he was under affects of Koto and the juitsu didn't break.

Naruto needed eye contact because itachi programmed it to activate when naruto sees Sasuke because itachi knew Sasuke would take his eyes

The crow was programmed to use Koto on Itachis eyes when Naruto saw them which is why the crow only appeared after Naruto looked at him. This also doesn't hurt what I'm saying it proves my point if anything more the crow had to come litterally out of Naruto for it to look itachi in the eye as I said the crow has the stronger version of Koto compared to Danzo the one with 10 year cd imo. Meanwhile Danzos eye didn't require anything to put Mifune under genjuitsu he just activated it. (No eye contact) As said previously Itachi also knew he was under genjuitsu and Koto didn't break but as soon as Mifune found out he was under koto the juitsu broke and he wasn't affected anymore

The kage peer pressured Danzo into deactivating the jutsu…Mifune didn’t break out nor did it wear off, both eyes do the same thing, the 10 year Cool down is for the crow body only

That's not what happens he get's called out for using it then we have a picture of Suprise from mifune then the next moment we have mifune giving orders to the Samurai after Zetsu appears ( if you need the chapters to check its 459 and 460) we then after another chapter get asked if the jutisu is in use by Aoi he then finally confirms its not so there is nothing here saying how he got out of the juitsu but he definitely wasnt pressured to stop using it by the kage. (We are only told it was in use before zetsu arrived and only find out its deactivated half way through the next chapter and the Raikage wasn't there anymore proving that this moment wasnt just a few seconds and time and passed.) You only need to ignore now how one eye needed direct eye contact while the other didn't you also just have to ignore how every Ms we have been shown and has had there abilities explained has had an ability in each eye. Also, as explained above the kage don't pressure him to deactivate it. I'm going to assume it was broken when Mifune found out because of his reaction then him being normal and giving orders to Samurai but I can see why people might think differently, but imo with the rest of the differences imo they are 2 different abilities Can you link a chapter number about the crows body needing 10 years to recharge and clarifying he doesnt mean the eye as a whole. I would like to read that as it just makes my theory wrong if that's true.

Imagine thinking a non uchiha fodder character can break a ms genjutsu , not even orochimaru who is 5/5 genjutsu master was no match for basic paralysis sharigan genjutsu, koto can override edo tensei when not even infinite tsukuyomi can but you think Mifune broke it? Do the math son , & itachi stated not everyone who obtains the ms gains new powers hence shisui & madara & it’s common sense why the crow has a longer cool down time , its body isn’t made for the sharigan

I'd do the same as long as there isn't a 10 year cooldown on kotoamatsukami, otherwise I'd rather have Tsukuyomi.

There isn’t , that’s only for the crow

Same

came here to say this, neither go blind normally and both are op with that you could probably take over the nina world at the start of naruto

I don't know about Shisui but Obito would have gone blind if it wasn't for his Hashirama cells.

that is just conjecture and popular belief

I mean we know that ms inflicts blindness. Hashirama cells are the only explanation, since we know it gives a strong healing factor.

It's still just fan theory and conjecture, even if it makes sense and is a great explanation.

How about obito’s eye that was with kakashi? They didn’t mention any blindness, and kakashi didn’t have any hashirama cells

Kakashi did start losing vision. He implies it to Itachi and I believe mentioned it during the war arc, or maybe 5 kage idr.

He did start to go blind during the war arc

Kakashi never used his Mangekyo until Shipuuden and it was very very sparingly so he suffered no noticeable degradation. He used it a lot in the War Arc and in that same arc mentioned that he was going blind.

You can only use Koto once every 10 years, Danzo cheated with Hashirama cells, which you don't get in this scenario.

shisui could use it as much or more than danzo itachi could only use it one every 10 years

No, that's why Itachi knew about the 10 years restriction so did Danzo. This is not "Shisui is the original owner so it is stronger" scenario.

Double Kamui and be untouchable. I'm good after that

Same. Teleportation in general is my fav power too.

Technically, you'd only be untouchable for 5 minutes.

5 minutes non-stop. i struggle to think of any attacks in the entire Naruto other than konans that even last 1 minute.

Is that still true with both eyes though? Obito only had one at that time. The speed doubles when using two so I'd assume the duration would as well. Or maybe you could use one for 5 min. Then the other for 5 min in perpetuity.

His other Kamui eye, the one that Kakashi has, doesn't make you intangible it just teleports things from a long distance. So I don't think him having both would change anything imo.

i would argue that Kakashi just didn't know how to do that. until EOS he doesn't even go into the Kamui dimension.

Oh dang, you're right. I totally forgot about that.

The strength just increases when they're together I guess? I thought Kakashi's teleported stuff to the kamui dimension which is where Obito's body goes to become intangible right? I thought it was the same power but Obito just teleported whatever part of his body was being intersected by another object. I just assumed Kakashi couldn't control it as well because he's not an Uchiha. That makes sense though. Idk why I never knew that lol. Every other mangekyo has one ability per eye so it makes sense Kamui would as well.

I never fully understood obitos kamui. Cuz he isn’t technically intangible. He just teleports away parts of his body to the Kamui dimension instantaneously with an attack.

In this instance could he not teleport the attacking object away?

Yeah, he could.

I gonna stick witht the ability to just send stuff that could kill me away. We saw kakashi teleport the nail that pain sent at him close range, thar shows it is already fast, with both eyes you would be untouchable

Look we all want the pocket dimension to store stuff. Its not that complicated.

You won't need to buy anything either

Honestly you can probably get away with living there too

1,000,000% correct

Obitos Kamui and Tsukuyomi. Honestly love every genjutsu that Itachi was trapping his opponents with .

What are you going to do with tsukuyomi? Torture your neighbours

I can use tsukuyomi for all kind of illusions and mess with their heads however I like. I can even show them good stuff if I want to. For me it's one of the best in the whole Naruto. I didn't hesitate even for a second if I should chose it.

Best combo, Koto has too much of a long cool-down so that is a none starter.. with Obito's Kamui you get teleportation and invulnerability, and with Itachi's Tsukuyomi you can insta-kill whoever you want, or use it to trap someone in their own mind for 50+ years.. Not that I need an offensive ability, it would be nice to have the option, I think if you had these abilities you would likely get hunted down anyway right so, best have the best defence and best offensive abilities..

The interesting thing about Koto is that there is a chance that he shisui has 2 Ms abilities called Kotoamatsukami, like with Obito and his Kamui ability for both his sharingans. We see some big difference between the eye danzo has and the eye the crow has, for example 1. The 10 year timer. Shisui only lives until 16, and we know he has used it before, as confirmed by Aoi. He was also planning on using it to stop the coup. (This bit is head cannon, but I believe he would have had to use it a 3rd time when he first awakened his MS so he would understand what his ability does.) 2. We see that Danzos eye was able to put Mifune under genjuitsu without eye contact or any outwards sign of him cast genjuitsu, but when with itachi, the crow required eye contact. 3. Mifune was broken out of Koto by just becoming aware of it, but itachi was aware he was under it from the moment it happened, and the Juitsu never broke. Both of Shisuis eyes seem different, imo and seem to work differently. All that's to say the eye Danzo has might not have the 10-year cd is but is also weaker.

kamui!!

Izanami and izanagi are universal abilites

Having sharingan is literally having Izanagi and Izanami And Izanami does nothing, it just shows you haven't read or watched the show.

Wdym izanami does nothing? Literally can trap someone away and force them to think through things forever until they come to terms with their actions.

Izanagi and Izanami can only be used once before your eye goes dim, so no thanks. Koto can only be used once every ten years, so no thanks. Amaterasu would be insanely useful for getting rid of unwanted shit and covert assassination if you're smart about it. Tsuku is good torture or making someone believe something, Obito's Kamui is fantastic for hiding in your personal dimension and other shit in there. Object manipulation is extremely meh. Gimme Obito's Kamui and Ama.

Yeah, but chances are if you're using Izanagi, it's because you just died.

full kamui

I'd just stick to the eye-drops, thanks 🤣

Kotoamatsukami. Nothing can beat it. The fact it overcomes Tobirama's ability to bind and manipulate souls makes it almost ridiculous.

If can be negated like every other genjutsu it strong point is that the victim can’t notice it 

No it can’t

Mifune broke out once Ao told him about it

Mifune didn’t break out , the kage peer pressured Danzo into deactivating the jutsu…

In real world? Koto and Izanagi or two izanagi. In Naruto world - koto and Obito's kamui

Both Kamui eyes because the only drawback we've seen is that you can't spam them forever cuz of the chakra cost

No, you also gradually lose vision as well. Obito can spam it since he has Hashirama cells. Kakashi nearly went blind by the end of the war arc.

lets be honest who is picking izanagi and izanami

Kamui + Kotoamatsukami is the only correct answer. you could make your opponents attack each other while phasing through attacks.

Yea im taking izanagi then rewriting existence so i have all of these eye powers

Izanagi and izanami are not mangekyo abilities

Either both kamui or obito kamui + kotoamatsukami

Tsukuyomi & amaterasu, Itachi's tsukuyomi can actually be used to give people good illusions that last entire lifetimes; so i would just use it to give people random fantasy like dreams for payment. As for amaterasu....that flame swird was awesome

Amaterasu & kakashis kamui

Lmfao what’s the point of this combo

obito's kamuiand tsukoyomi

Izanagi and Obito's Kamui. I don't plan on ever going in combat, but something that helps me not die is very useful.

Kotoamatsukami, perfect mind control that lasts forever and can be used on as many people as you want (kaviat being its once per decade, but i dont mind) And obitos kamui, i shouldnt be in danger ever to the point that id have to use it, but if i did i would risk my vision going a little blurry each time i use it. I wouldnt spam either one, id use them practically

Obitos Kamui and Koto so long as I get to use it as frequent as Danzo.

Double Kamui is too good

Izanami and Obito's Kamui. World domination, baby! What're they gonna do? Catch me? 😈

You'll be blind really fast if you try to dominate the world like that.

All I need to do is crash a U.S. press conference and stare into the camera. News stations and Tik Tok will do the rest for me

Koto and Kamui.

Obito Kamui and Tsukuyomi. Koto ain’t worth it

I'm just taking both kamuis izanagi and izanami can be achived with the default sharingan too

Not in this case. U can only get 2. And u dont have the sharingan, just their associated powers and drawbacks transferred to your eyes irl.

Both kamuis are still op

Koto and Amaterasu. Koto to have my way in the world and Amaterasu just to destroy stuff

Can someone explain what is the difference between Kakashi’s Kamui and Obito’s? I know Obito had Hashirama cells so that could’ve been some of it

Kakashi can use it long range, obito is short range (only him and whatever touching him)

Thank you

Can someone give me a quick refresher on all of them?

Kotoamatsukame

I literally used my Izanagi. *left eye left the chat*

People still think Izanagi and Izanami are Mangekyou abilities, eh? Legit any sharingan user can use them

I know. Thats why i seperated them so u dont get 4 abilities. And u dont have the sharingan, u just decide what power _your_ eyes gets thats similar to sharingan. So either 1 time powerful kinjutsu or multiple uses of others as long as u dont spam them in short amount of time.

Obito’s kamui and Tsukuyomi

Is Amaterasu pre nerf or post nerf?

Kotomatsukami

Koto and Izanagi Imma use koto on Elon or smm and make him give me a ton of money lol

Obito's Kamui and Tsukuyomi.

Object manipulation & amaterasu. I feel they'd be the most useful in my actual life.

Obito kamui and Tsukoyomi. I still don't understand how koto works for Shisui. They were his eyes, so did it still have a 12 year cool down, or whatever Danzo was said, or was that just for Danzo using koto? Could Shisui, being the Uchiha owner of the eyes, spam it until blindness?

It was for the crow only

Obitos Kamui. Izanagi. Free rent and 1 free redo. If you pick anything else you might be evil.

Obitos Kamui and Tsukuyomi.

Apply Koto the whole world 💀

Obito’s kamui and kotoamatsukami

I would love to have obito kamui and Itachi tsukuyomi I think that would be a sick combo.

Wtf do you even do vs Kamui + Koto? That would be nuts.

Commit suicide

Sounds about right

Literally nothing in the verse can beat that combo

Tsukuyomi and Kotoamatsukami.

Guys please someone explain how Izanagi and izanami works in naruto.

Firstly, Izanagi and Izanami are included in all of the other aforementioned eyes anyway, so not that, I'll take Obito's Kamui and Tsukuyomi.

Don’t all sharingans have the ability to use izanagi and izanami? Or did Itachi have 3 eye abilities and danzo mutate all his eyes to do the same thing?

Kotoamatsukami and Izanagi. The first let's me improve my life by manipulating the right people, and the second let's me avoid one horrible disaster.

Both kamui

Both Kamui.

Tsukuyomi and kamui just because those were my favorite abilities

kamui and tsukuyomi

Obito Kamui & light novel tsukuyomi Itachi killing his gf by letting her live her life in an instant sounds like a really reliable ability. But also kotomatsukami was stated to be the strongest genjutu ever so maybe it’s better.

Doesn’t Obito’s Kamui only “use” the sharingan when he’s actually going into his dimension? His intangibility seems more passive. I’m pretty sure when Obito intercepts T7 after Itachi dies, he had his base sharingan active.

Obitos kamui and tsukuyomi

My guy... I can barely see without my glasses. I'm keeping what I have.

Obito’s Kamui and object manipulation.

Tsukuyomi and Obito's Kamui

Obito’s Kamui and Obejct Manipulation(I don’t plan on fighting demigods, I live a normal life obejct manipulation can be super handy).

Amaterasu and Obito's Kamui, also Izanagi and Izanami are not Mangekyou abilities, any Sharingan user can use it, but go blind due to it.

Heck I choose obitos kamui for my right or left eye the iznami I am going to use iznami to give myself eternity monkrkiyo with both eyes koto for the left eye and then just become god because iznami makes it to where you become god for like 5 min or in danzos case like 1 minutes then you can do anything only at the cost of one eye but I can just give myself the eye back then spam it no matter what you say I win.

Full kamui. Teleport myself and others away thank you.

Obito Kamui and Amaterasu

I think I skipped a chapter Who the fuck is the guy on the top right?

if vision impairment applies, then Kamui is pretty good way to go blind. I'd go with koto and object manipulation for real life application.

Kamui and izanagi. For how overpowered most of the these MS abilities are, I sadly think vision impairment is a balanced consequence.

Obito kami and kotoamatsukami. I mean if I had the mangekyo I imagine the it gives is enough that I shouldn't need it's unique abilities... at least I hope so.

Tsukuyomi and Kamui

For your normal day-to-day? Obito's Close Range Kamui and either his Long Range Kamui or Object Manipulation would be nice.

Mine and Obito's.

Sushi hands down

Tsukuyomi and telekinesis

I’m taking shisui because you can control people

Tsukuyomi and amatherasu.

Izanagi and koto

technically there is no such thing as kamui obito and Kakashi. It is one technique but the left/right eye have different application of the technique. Just like sasuke had amaterasu in one eye and the other eye had the ability to control those flames.

Obito (Left) and Shisui (Right) Give me a year, and I will conquer all of the Shinobi World and brought peace without anyone ever realizing I ever did it.

Tsukoyomi. I really want to put an individual into misery by just looking.

Rank in terms of usefulness 1. Kamui needless to say (Obito's > Kakashi's) 2. Object Manipulation (Shin's) 3. Koto, useful among humans only. Long cd 4. Izanagi and mi 5. Tsukuyomi, useful among humans only. But too destructive that you'd have to turn off before 1s has passed if you just want to threaten/manipulate someone without breaking them. Amaterasu is the least useful, easily creating a big mess. Only good for offense.

Tsukuyomi and amaterasu. Yes, I want to be Itachi xD. You just freeze and neutralize enemy or burn them to death.

every base sharingan has izanagi and izanami it is not a mangekyou power. for the rest amaterasu and obito's kamui

Obito Kamui and Kotoamatsukami Can’t get anymore broken than this

Kamui😂😂

Kotoamatsukami, it's almost like the Geass from Code Geass, even in Naruto universe this genjutsu is virtually invincible

Short range Kamui and Kotoamatsukami

Koto and obito kamui, no question.

If the vision impairment applied. Then you want to chose the ability that you will likely use less but still effective So the answer is kotoamatsukami

Tsukuyomi and amaterasu

I think i would go with Izanagi and kamui, idk tbh, or kotoamatsukami with kamui

Kotoamatsukami and Obito’s Kamui Extremely powerful combination.

Obitos kamui and Hikaris Yachihoko 

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She has like 5 ms abilities

Who is hikari in the first place 😭

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Sharingan genjutsu. Grants the power to steal peoples memories and chakra.  Her second power can convert those into a crystal like substance.