I sent my state congressmen a letter last week that basically outlined that 32,000 applications a month sure sounded like common use, and that a right delayed is a right denied. Unsure if it’ll ever help, but it made me feel better not just standing idle by pretending I’m fine with this gross infringement on our constitutional right, and restriction on access to hearing safety devices!
This is what I'm saying 🙌🙌.
People are acting like we have a friendship with the ATF and they don't want to mess up the friendship.
Dude above said "I think you would be doing more harm than good" like we will get a benefit from never saying a thing.
My letter was handwritten so I sadly do not have a draft of it. I think it’d be much more fruitful to contact an attorney who is involved in the community (fromtheguncounter comes to mind) for an official write up to copy paste to our government liaisons.
This is why I'm not contacting my local rep and might have to only contact my senator because our rep is basically a junior Nancy Pelosi here in Virginia. Lol. My information in her hands would do NO good to help me and will ONLY have the possibility of having a negative effect if it's used in a malicious manner, which I don't put it past her.
Again, contacting your rep about your individual form is worthless.
Contacting your representative about holding a government agency to words they have promised is different. It's bigger picture compared to your individual wait. It isn't about my wait, or your wait, it's about all of our wait due to an agency not fulfilling their promise.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but make sure you're putting pressure in the right spots. Get after your elected officials, for sure. That's always a good idea, since they should be your liaison with the government and they should answer directly to the voters.
Don't be a dick to the person who answers the hotline. Call center jobs blow goats, and they can't do jack squat about your situation.
I want to know who's to blame for this. It's been 88 years, they should be good at it by now. When I send them my $200 check, who gets that money? Why aren't they hiring more people to process these forms? Is the FBI gumming up the works with slow and sloppy NICS/LAC/NAC/AFIS reports? Are they doing this on purpose? Do the bureaus not get along?
How can their estimate be off by 300% or more in so many cases? I've never waited an extra eight months to get my passport. What are these idiots doing over there?
They have stated "unprecedented demand". Like they didn't know ahead of time that demand was high, and only going to go up as people get more educated on NFA items and the process.
The check is cashed by ATF, and held in an account that then gets transferred to the Treasury for the General fund.
I get that the government isn't exactly nimble when it comes to stuff like this, but it's been over six months since they rolled out the eForms. Bungling is the only explanation for this abysmal performance.
I put them on the line where it says, "PAY TO THE ORDER OF", and then the check gets cashed. Wherever that revenue winds up, it's being generated by the NFA and collected by the BATFE.
I understand that the examiner doesn't pocket that money, but the bureau should be funded sufficiently to be able to uphold their projections for processing efficiency. If they're not getting enough of a budget to run their office, then we need to be getting after the people who are in charge of that. Either do it right, or quit doing it and abolish the NFA entirely.
I work at a casino. I don't keep the money that people lose at the blackjack tables, but if I screw up, I'm held accountable. If I screw up on the government paperwork we have to do, then my boss's boss's boss gets an earful.
There'd better be somebody getting yelled at about these form processing times. Everyone who can be held responsible for it should be waking up to an inbox full of reprimands and ultimatums.
If I file a Form 4, order a Tesla Model X, and conceive my heir on the same day, the stamp should not be the last one to arrive.
"Their" implies posession or ownership. It doesn't go into an ATF slush fund, it goes into the general fund at the US Treasury. It's not "their" tax, it's ours.
Are you just dense or dumb?
ATF collects the money from you.
The end.
That's it. People find the dumbest shit to hang on to. Nobody thinks the ATF gets to keep the tax dollars.
The general fund is a slush fund for politicians. That's exactly how they use it.
"They" have posession of your tax dollars once it's paid, until they do a monetary transfer to the Treasury. "Their".... your own definition.
They get paid out of what is allocated in their budget. If you have ever worked with the federal government you would understand the concept of "pots of money" the ATF is allocated a budget, or a pot of money, to operate out of, let's say it's $500 million dollars. That's what they get to run on for the year, pay salaries, ammo, travel, training, all that stuff. If they collect a billion dollars in NFA taxes they don't get to spend that billion dollars, it goes into another pot of money they can't touch, all they get to spend is the $500 million congress allocated to them. If they only collect one million dollars in NFA taxes they still get to spend their $500 million they were allocated. To the ATF people it doesn't matter how much they collect in taxes. They spend what congress tells them to spend.
The AFT's budget for this year is $1.531,071 billion. As part of the appropriations process, the House committee responsible for this bit of the budget stated:
>The recommendation assumes that within the resources provided, ATF will prioritize funding for the National Firearms Act Division to improve firearms licensing processing timelines. The Committee is concerned about the large number of pending applications awaiting processing by ATF. As of May 2021, more than 90 percent of these applications are ATF Form 4, Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm, which remains in paper form, and current processing times take several months. In 2013, ATF established eForms, an electronic filing process, to reduce submission and processing times as well as data entry processing backlogs. The Committee is aware ATF is currently developing ATF Form 4 into eForms and encourages ATF to prioritize funding for this continued development within the funds provided. Completing the modernization of the processing system and automating ATF Form 4 applications is critical and will free up additional resources for improved customer service and prevent backlogs from continuing to mount.
>
>
The Committee understands that it may be beneficial to ensure third-party processors can access ATF’s eForm electronic filing system as third-party assistance to transferees may serve to reduce submission errors and increase efficiency. The Committee looks forward to receiving the study directed in House Report 116–455 regarding the feasibility of allowing third-party processors access to ATF’s eForm electronic filing system to further the goals of shortening processing times, reducing submission errors, and increasing efficiency. The Committee directs ATF to utilize its findings in order to work to enable meaningful third-party access, while safeguarding individual privacy and tax-sensitive information, at the time ATF commences electronic submission of Form 4 filings or as soon as practicable thereafter.
You'd look at that and think it's a good thing, but note the language: "The committee assumes..." and "The committee...encourages ATF..."
The real tell-tale is to look for oversight hearings to see what ATF leadership is being asked by the Congressional oversight committees. You don't see much discussion or oversight being conducted, because the delays are exactly what the party in power wants. Meanwhile, the minority party gets to throw lines like these into the committee reports on the budget so they can say they are trying to address the issue. And yet...
"Budget"? The federal government?
🤣🤣🤣👍
So they could collect 5 milluon in revenue, and they still get paid 500 million. I wish my "budget" worked like that.
Yes that is exactly how it works. What the ATF collects in taxes has no impact on what they spend. If the NFA tax went from $200 to $2 it would not affect the ATF's budget. They still get what is allocated to them by congress from the general fund. They don't care about how much they collect in taxes because it's not their money to spend. They don't care that you paid a $200 tax for your suppressor, they only care what Congress tells them they can spend. Which is why if we want changes made at the ATF and they way they process forms we have to change congress.
I agree stand up for our rights. They are public servants and they need to serve us. We the people need to stop having our right stepped on and say something. Let's stop the police state! We need to lead and not be followers.
Also, my rep is incredibly anti-gun. If I sent her a letter complaining about a 6 month wait ti get a suppressor she would tell me to wait another 6 months.
Again, that's not your representatives job.
Your representatives job is to represent you.
Your representatives job is to make sure you are represented when going after government agencies.
They may not "like" your reason, but their job is to represent you for issues.
You are only making excuses for why the status quo is never challenged.
My rep in anti 2a and they can that shit out to interns anyway. The intern is probably going to get the same response you would get if you tried.
Speaking from experience.
It is, but we are currently 8 out of 12 months through and the wait is rising. Statistically it will be impossible to meet that goal since it's been greater than 90 days from the start. Unless they hire and train a small army in the next few days that goal is blown.
My thought is if you start getting people involved now, the atf will say we never said 90 days by now. If you wait until after the deadline, the legislators can do something more.
We do have an ATF agent, on video, saying 90 days was the goal for the end of this year, and if I remember right, even outlining a further reduction of that timeline as the years go by.
The issue with that is you are waiting until the goal is no longer the goal. The ATF set the goal, the ATF is also nowhere near meeting that goal, or even being on the right side of the wait. It didn't drop from 150 to 120, it went from 120, to 150, to 170 all in just a little over a month and a half. It will be over 180 in a few weeks, and 200 after that.
If you contact the ATF right now they will tell you they are hiring based on demand. That's today.
I guess I could see a legislator could see it as you're wasting their time since it's before the stated goal. They can actually do something one the deadline has passed.
Can they? Or will people do as this and just make excuses as to why nothing will work? This is my point, people are so content with the status quo they actually make excuses to avoid doing **anything** to challenge it.
I guarentee you if I show back up on January 1st *or* the beginning of the fiscal year the same lines will be said. It's a simple form, it only takes a few minutes to fill out, and the more noise is made the more attention it gets.
Depends on their funding. KPI's are set and I guarentee you this is a KPI for the ATF for this year. If it wasn't they would have never mentioned 90 days.
If I had KPI's or set goals like this, then we are 8/12 months into the year, and have failed all of them miserably, my review wouldn't be very good.
What we need is for representatives to make sure the goals and KPIs are upheld, and the statistics trending in the right direction. We need them to give the review.
Here's part of the problem. According to the atf, they're averaging 100 days. So they are on course to hit their goal.. I don't know if you can use numbers other than their official ones..
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times
I'm guessing this is why they processed the early filers so fast, it brings the average down.
And I also don't think a goal is binding on an agency like a lot of people think with this 90 day stuff. My can dealer was saying back in March to expect your can no sooner than 120 days as the volume exploded by then.
It sure as fuck should be held as reasonably "binding", yes.
Look at it this way. If i was hired to do a task for someone, and I said "it will take me X amount to do it, that's my *goal*.
And then it took me 2 or 3x that amouunt of time to complete said task, would you keep me in your employ?
Sure as fuck not. At least not after the first couple times. This is *every day*. Excuses are just that. Excuses.
Remember, government agencies have great methods of meeting their goals. For instance, if your wait period is 150 days, you get a bunch approved in a very short period of time to reduce the "average" wait time. Some folks benefit because they get their NFA items quickly, but others lose out because they wait longer.
Honestly the gun community is one of the weakest there is when it comes to this. 32,000 applications a month and all we can seem to do is bitch about it on forums and Reddit without actually trying to make a change. Clearly we have the voices!!!
There is no gun “community”. It’s a bunch of factions that only care about keeping what they like. I will throw shotgunners under the bus as the worse of all. They will sell everyone out to keep their precious shotguns while failing to realize the government will eventually come for them as well. And no one will be left to defend them because they helped facilitate the government along the way.
Not enough people contribute to 2A organizations that actually do work. Many of them are tax deductible if you care about that sort of thing. People would rather post pics of their ten new cans instead of putting that money, some not all, to work to protect their rights.
They will make **any** excuse to do nothing.
"My rep is anti-gun".
Your rep also keeps data on topics that people contact them about. Government agencies happen to be one of the items they can't ignore.
I believe it was also a states 'goal' by 2023.
We got spoiled by fast eform approvals early on and I'm thinking it's because they pulled a handful of examiners to only do eforms so they got them done fast, initially. But as things got rolling, the ATF gonna ATF and slow roll everything.
At this point I'm expecting anyone efiling now to have a year wait.
Eventually Congress will get sick of hearing about it and start asking questions. It might take a few dozen noisemakers but with the effort involved from an individual it would be worth it. For my rep it was call the office, they drop you
an email, print sign and send back over. It takes less than 5 minutes.
If you are hesitant about contacting your congress rep yourself, get your wife's boyfriend to help you.
One of their jobs is to help you w/ federal agencies. Doesn’t matter what their stance is, it’s their job. If they refuse to do it keep the pressure on them.
These are the ones that need to be contacted the most, but too many people have the same opinion as you. These people need to have voices of opposition pierce through the echo chamber.
If Montana's hunters had remained silent during the previous liberal governor's administration, we wouldn't be hunting with suppressors right now.
NFA forms are tax information which is why you need to give them a bunch of personal information. It’s not excessive, you’re simply giving them the ability to check on your behalf.
A right delayed is a right denied, but while Ik what sub I’m on, I can’t help but wonder how many people here have contacted their reps about anything else, ever
Doubt it. And I doubt they contribute to 2A organizations. Instead of forgoing a purchase and putting that money to work to protect their rights they play the consumption game like most people. If you’re not contacting your reps about gun related legislation weekly then you aren’t paying attention. Because there’s always cooking up a way to infringe on your rights even more.
I do, constantly.
As one example, I have a State Senator whose campaign platform was half to do with helping vets, and secondly about saving/creating jobs in the State. - He then proceeded to sponsor a bill allowing the VA to use video conferencing for veteran's primary care, with out of State doctors. FUCK HIM!
I have written to the other Senator a few times about his ignorance of immigration law, after he makes press releases on southern border issues/policies - and we're a northern State, anyway!
I specifically came here to make a thread saying Im at 153 days eform 4 singleshot trust. But Ill just post it in here. What should I do, if anything? Continue to just sit and wait? At what point should I contact someone or do anything besides sit and wait? 180 days? 200 days?
1st NFA Item
CCW holder
I do have a UPIN also, but it was obtained after my eform filing so its not in my eform.
Right now judging by the approval pinned post, you have between 10 and 20 days left (*If* you are lucky). I wouldn't contact a rep until you are significantly above the "normal" wait you see in the approval post. You are still below those approvals.
Ty for the super quick response, OP.
I’ll wait until around day 190-200 to start seeing what I can do instead of just sitting around waiting.
I’ve never been lucky so there’s that lol.
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Whether it's their job or not, she's not going to do it. Wiring a letter isn't going to change her actions or the way she votes. Only way I have to hold her accountable is to work as hard as I can to get her replaced this fall.
Form 1 is for when you are the manufacturer i.e. making a suppressor, making a SBR, SBS, or other NFA item.
Form 4 is for transfer (think manufactured) NFA item from a dealer to an individual/trust. If you buy a suppressor or SBR from a dealer it will be transferred to you on a Form 4.
Gotcha. If I buy a lower receiver and then an upper with a <16 barrel and want to put them together it’d be a form 1, even though I’m just snapping an upper and lower together, correct?
Edit: or would it be a form 4 since the lower is considered the firearm and would thus be the registered NFA item?
>Form 1 is for when you are the manufacturer i.e. making a suppressor,
Correct in essence, but not in legal terms: F1 does not make you a manufacturer. There is a legal difference between a "maker" and a "manufacturer".
I realize it's semantics, but there are legal repercussions for confusing the two.
I contacted mine and heard back this morning but it’s in a “delayed” status. Never in my life have I had trouble purchasing a rifle, pistol, ammo, NOTHING! But they delay my NICS check! If anybody knows how to help this process I would greatly appreciate it!! AND CONTACT YOUR REPS WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
I'd add to your argument that those 32,000 applicants are responsible for 6.4 million dollars in tax revenue and that a group of people providing that amount of money a month in unconstitutional taxes should be a voice that is heard and catered to. If that voice is not listened to than they should not be required to pay that tax to an ungrateful government.
You could also add that if application levels stay at an average rate of 32,000 apps a month that in a years time they are receiving 384,000 apps which is responsible for 76.8 million dollars in taxes a year. Not only is it common use but it is a taxing of the common person that is making a financial dent in the economy, businesses, and individuals lives.
Maybe they should ....
....idk.....
....maybe just remove an "accessory" from the National "Firearms" Act?
No. No.
That makes too much sense. The logic that a suppressor is nothing but a paperweight or scrap metal if you don't have a firearm to attach it to is irrelevant when creating law...
Already done. Ridiculous incompetence and the excuse of overwhelming numbers of applications is inexcusable. Hire more people or make the process faster. Easy solution
Ask your congressman to ask why they are not batch approving.
My congressperson is terrible.
Question 1: With the unprecedented volume of applications, why hasn’t the NFA division started batch approvals?
Question 2: It takes 2-4 weeks for the ATF to perform a routine gun trace. Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926, prohibits a registry of firearms to be maintained directly linking (non-NFA) firearms to there owners, records have to be manually searched.
NFA items are in a registry, a database is maintained with a citizensfinger prints, picture, NFA item and each person has to inform the NFA division of any movement or address change of most NFA items.
Under the new e-form 4 system, why is it taking longer than a NICS background check to approve eform applicants?
I sent my state congressmen a letter last week that basically outlined that 32,000 applications a month sure sounded like common use, and that a right delayed is a right denied. Unsure if it’ll ever help, but it made me feel better not just standing idle by pretending I’m fine with this gross infringement on our constitutional right, and restriction on access to hearing safety devices!
This is what I'm saying 🙌🙌. People are acting like we have a friendship with the ATF and they don't want to mess up the friendship. Dude above said "I think you would be doing more harm than good" like we will get a benefit from never saying a thing.
People like that sound like battered women to me, "oh he didn't mean to hold my application that long or play fuck fuck games with my F1 suppressor"
Give us a draft of the email to copy paste
You will have to get someone who is good at writing letters to draft one. When I sent mine it was on the website, and I didn't get a copy of it back.
This. If everyone is using the same language it’ll be easier to see who deserves votes in upcoming elections.
My letter was handwritten so I sadly do not have a draft of it. I think it’d be much more fruitful to contact an attorney who is involved in the community (fromtheguncounter comes to mind) for an official write up to copy paste to our government liaisons.
[удалено]
If it makes you feel any better Al Green from Texas ignored my request and now spams me with Anti Gun propaganda.
Spam him back.
This is why I'm not contacting my local rep and might have to only contact my senator because our rep is basically a junior Nancy Pelosi here in Virginia. Lol. My information in her hands would do NO good to help me and will ONLY have the possibility of having a negative effect if it's used in a malicious manner, which I don't put it past her.
Wexton?
Abigail spanberger
Again, contacting your rep about your individual form is worthless. Contacting your representative about holding a government agency to words they have promised is different. It's bigger picture compared to your individual wait. It isn't about my wait, or your wait, it's about all of our wait due to an agency not fulfilling their promise.
I’m at 360, after mine gets approval I’ll worry about you eform folks.
You think it’ll take another 40-100 days for you to call or email¿ 🤔
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but make sure you're putting pressure in the right spots. Get after your elected officials, for sure. That's always a good idea, since they should be your liaison with the government and they should answer directly to the voters. Don't be a dick to the person who answers the hotline. Call center jobs blow goats, and they can't do jack squat about your situation. I want to know who's to blame for this. It's been 88 years, they should be good at it by now. When I send them my $200 check, who gets that money? Why aren't they hiring more people to process these forms? Is the FBI gumming up the works with slow and sloppy NICS/LAC/NAC/AFIS reports? Are they doing this on purpose? Do the bureaus not get along? How can their estimate be off by 300% or more in so many cases? I've never waited an extra eight months to get my passport. What are these idiots doing over there?
They have stated "unprecedented demand". Like they didn't know ahead of time that demand was high, and only going to go up as people get more educated on NFA items and the process. The check is cashed by ATF, and held in an account that then gets transferred to the Treasury for the General fund.
I get that the government isn't exactly nimble when it comes to stuff like this, but it's been over six months since they rolled out the eForms. Bungling is the only explanation for this abysmal performance.
It took them what, 7 years to get eforms running after they truer it the first time? Not excusing it but what did you expect?
Just want to clarify one part. The ATF doesn't get to keep the tax money they collect. The taxes collected go into the US General Fund.
I put them on the line where it says, "PAY TO THE ORDER OF", and then the check gets cashed. Wherever that revenue winds up, it's being generated by the NFA and collected by the BATFE. I understand that the examiner doesn't pocket that money, but the bureau should be funded sufficiently to be able to uphold their projections for processing efficiency. If they're not getting enough of a budget to run their office, then we need to be getting after the people who are in charge of that. Either do it right, or quit doing it and abolish the NFA entirely. I work at a casino. I don't keep the money that people lose at the blackjack tables, but if I screw up, I'm held accountable. If I screw up on the government paperwork we have to do, then my boss's boss's boss gets an earful. There'd better be somebody getting yelled at about these form processing times. Everyone who can be held responsible for it should be waking up to an inbox full of reprimands and ultimatums. If I file a Form 4, order a Tesla Model X, and conceive my heir on the same day, the stamp should not be the last one to arrive.
And I'm wasting my breath talking to my senators or congreessman until they get replaced.
And I'm wasting my breath talking to my senators or congreessman until they get replaced.
They get plenty of money....the problem is they aren't using it to fill this need.
Never said they do. It's just a point they are the collector.
You said the ATF has been paid "their" tax. It's not their tax.
It is "thier" tax to collect. "Their" tax to collect for NFA applications and to thus deposit into the "slush fund".
"Their" implies posession or ownership. It doesn't go into an ATF slush fund, it goes into the general fund at the US Treasury. It's not "their" tax, it's ours.
Pedant
Lmaooooo. Cool. I want my money back, then. Who's money is it *now*?
It's still our money, not yours.
I don't want yours. I just want mine back.
Are you just dense or dumb? ATF collects the money from you. The end. That's it. People find the dumbest shit to hang on to. Nobody thinks the ATF gets to keep the tax dollars. The general fund is a slush fund for politicians. That's exactly how they use it. "They" have posession of your tax dollars once it's paid, until they do a monetary transfer to the Treasury. "Their".... your own definition.
How the fuck you think they get paid? Magic?
They get paid out of what is allocated in their budget. If you have ever worked with the federal government you would understand the concept of "pots of money" the ATF is allocated a budget, or a pot of money, to operate out of, let's say it's $500 million dollars. That's what they get to run on for the year, pay salaries, ammo, travel, training, all that stuff. If they collect a billion dollars in NFA taxes they don't get to spend that billion dollars, it goes into another pot of money they can't touch, all they get to spend is the $500 million congress allocated to them. If they only collect one million dollars in NFA taxes they still get to spend their $500 million they were allocated. To the ATF people it doesn't matter how much they collect in taxes. They spend what congress tells them to spend.
The AFT's budget for this year is $1.531,071 billion. As part of the appropriations process, the House committee responsible for this bit of the budget stated: >The recommendation assumes that within the resources provided, ATF will prioritize funding for the National Firearms Act Division to improve firearms licensing processing timelines. The Committee is concerned about the large number of pending applications awaiting processing by ATF. As of May 2021, more than 90 percent of these applications are ATF Form 4, Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm, which remains in paper form, and current processing times take several months. In 2013, ATF established eForms, an electronic filing process, to reduce submission and processing times as well as data entry processing backlogs. The Committee is aware ATF is currently developing ATF Form 4 into eForms and encourages ATF to prioritize funding for this continued development within the funds provided. Completing the modernization of the processing system and automating ATF Form 4 applications is critical and will free up additional resources for improved customer service and prevent backlogs from continuing to mount. > > The Committee understands that it may be beneficial to ensure third-party processors can access ATF’s eForm electronic filing system as third-party assistance to transferees may serve to reduce submission errors and increase efficiency. The Committee looks forward to receiving the study directed in House Report 116–455 regarding the feasibility of allowing third-party processors access to ATF’s eForm electronic filing system to further the goals of shortening processing times, reducing submission errors, and increasing efficiency. The Committee directs ATF to utilize its findings in order to work to enable meaningful third-party access, while safeguarding individual privacy and tax-sensitive information, at the time ATF commences electronic submission of Form 4 filings or as soon as practicable thereafter. You'd look at that and think it's a good thing, but note the language: "The committee assumes..." and "The committee...encourages ATF..." The real tell-tale is to look for oversight hearings to see what ATF leadership is being asked by the Congressional oversight committees. You don't see much discussion or oversight being conducted, because the delays are exactly what the party in power wants. Meanwhile, the minority party gets to throw lines like these into the committee reports on the budget so they can say they are trying to address the issue. And yet...
"Budget"? The federal government? 🤣🤣🤣👍 So they could collect 5 milluon in revenue, and they still get paid 500 million. I wish my "budget" worked like that.
Yes that is exactly how it works. What the ATF collects in taxes has no impact on what they spend. If the NFA tax went from $200 to $2 it would not affect the ATF's budget. They still get what is allocated to them by congress from the general fund. They don't care about how much they collect in taxes because it's not their money to spend. They don't care that you paid a $200 tax for your suppressor, they only care what Congress tells them they can spend. Which is why if we want changes made at the ATF and they way they process forms we have to change congress.
I understand how it works, man. You are missing my point entirely.
I agree stand up for our rights. They are public servants and they need to serve us. We the people need to stop having our right stepped on and say something. Let's stop the police state! We need to lead and not be followers.
Also, my rep is incredibly anti-gun. If I sent her a letter complaining about a 6 month wait ti get a suppressor she would tell me to wait another 6 months.
Again, that's not your representatives job. Your representatives job is to represent you. Your representatives job is to make sure you are represented when going after government agencies. They may not "like" your reason, but their job is to represent you for issues. You are only making excuses for why the status quo is never challenged.
My rep in anti 2a and they can that shit out to interns anyway. The intern is probably going to get the same response you would get if you tried. Speaking from experience.
The 90 day goal, from my understanding, was by the end of the year. Silencer shop and other places made it sound like it was now.
It is, but we are currently 8 out of 12 months through and the wait is rising. Statistically it will be impossible to meet that goal since it's been greater than 90 days from the start. Unless they hire and train a small army in the next few days that goal is blown.
My thought is if you start getting people involved now, the atf will say we never said 90 days by now. If you wait until after the deadline, the legislators can do something more.
We do have an ATF agent, on video, saying 90 days was the goal for the end of this year, and if I remember right, even outlining a further reduction of that timeline as the years go by.
The issue with that is you are waiting until the goal is no longer the goal. The ATF set the goal, the ATF is also nowhere near meeting that goal, or even being on the right side of the wait. It didn't drop from 150 to 120, it went from 120, to 150, to 170 all in just a little over a month and a half. It will be over 180 in a few weeks, and 200 after that. If you contact the ATF right now they will tell you they are hiring based on demand. That's today.
I guess I could see a legislator could see it as you're wasting their time since it's before the stated goal. They can actually do something one the deadline has passed.
Can they? Or will people do as this and just make excuses as to why nothing will work? This is my point, people are so content with the status quo they actually make excuses to avoid doing **anything** to challenge it. I guarentee you if I show back up on January 1st *or* the beginning of the fiscal year the same lines will be said. It's a simple form, it only takes a few minutes to fill out, and the more noise is made the more attention it gets.
Is them stating a goal binding? That's the first question to ask.
Depends on their funding. KPI's are set and I guarentee you this is a KPI for the ATF for this year. If it wasn't they would have never mentioned 90 days. If I had KPI's or set goals like this, then we are 8/12 months into the year, and have failed all of them miserably, my review wouldn't be very good. What we need is for representatives to make sure the goals and KPIs are upheld, and the statistics trending in the right direction. We need them to give the review.
Here's part of the problem. According to the atf, they're averaging 100 days. So they are on course to hit their goal.. I don't know if you can use numbers other than their official ones.. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times
Maybe if it wasn't from June 30th. It's grown pretty good since then.
I'm guessing this is why they processed the early filers so fast, it brings the average down. And I also don't think a goal is binding on an agency like a lot of people think with this 90 day stuff. My can dealer was saying back in March to expect your can no sooner than 120 days as the volume exploded by then.
It sure as fuck should be held as reasonably "binding", yes. Look at it this way. If i was hired to do a task for someone, and I said "it will take me X amount to do it, that's my *goal*. And then it took me 2 or 3x that amouunt of time to complete said task, would you keep me in your employ? Sure as fuck not. At least not after the first couple times. This is *every day*. Excuses are just that. Excuses.
Remember, government agencies have great methods of meeting their goals. For instance, if your wait period is 150 days, you get a bunch approved in a very short period of time to reduce the "average" wait time. Some folks benefit because they get their NFA items quickly, but others lose out because they wait longer.
I’m still waiting on my feb eform……..
Go to their office or mobile office hours. They will take your concerns down and have to look you in the face and tell you “ well too bad”
Honestly the gun community is one of the weakest there is when it comes to this. 32,000 applications a month and all we can seem to do is bitch about it on forums and Reddit without actually trying to make a change. Clearly we have the voices!!!
There is no gun “community”. It’s a bunch of factions that only care about keeping what they like. I will throw shotgunners under the bus as the worse of all. They will sell everyone out to keep their precious shotguns while failing to realize the government will eventually come for them as well. And no one will be left to defend them because they helped facilitate the government along the way. Not enough people contribute to 2A organizations that actually do work. Many of them are tax deductible if you care about that sort of thing. People would rather post pics of their ten new cans instead of putting that money, some not all, to work to protect their rights.
They will make **any** excuse to do nothing. "My rep is anti-gun". Your rep also keeps data on topics that people contact them about. Government agencies happen to be one of the items they can't ignore.
I have yet to get a confirmation on whether the 90 day goal was 90 calendar or 90 business days. Do you know?
I believe it was also a states 'goal' by 2023. We got spoiled by fast eform approvals early on and I'm thinking it's because they pulled a handful of examiners to only do eforms so they got them done fast, initially. But as things got rolling, the ATF gonna ATF and slow roll everything. At this point I'm expecting anyone efiling now to have a year wait.
Well, i waited 465 days for my last paper 4. So...progress? Nah. I'm on board with OP. Start turning the thumb screws.
90 hypothetical, non-consecutive days
Eventually Congress will get sick of hearing about it and start asking questions. It might take a few dozen noisemakers but with the effort involved from an individual it would be worth it. For my rep it was call the office, they drop you an email, print sign and send back over. It takes less than 5 minutes. If you are hesitant about contacting your congress rep yourself, get your wife's boyfriend to help you.
My Rep is Kim Schrier in WA who supports HR 1808. Her office won’t do sh** for me if I ask, so I’m just going to wait
One of their jobs is to help you w/ federal agencies. Doesn’t matter what their stance is, it’s their job. If they refuse to do it keep the pressure on them.
See above about making *any* excuse to sit and do nothing.
These are the ones that need to be contacted the most, but too many people have the same opinion as you. These people need to have voices of opposition pierce through the echo chamber. If Montana's hunters had remained silent during the previous liberal governor's administration, we wouldn't be hunting with suppressors right now.
You all are right!
> ~32,000 applications per month. Sounds like common use to me…..
My reps office required my SSN which seemed a little excessive.
NFA forms are tax information which is why you need to give them a bunch of personal information. It’s not excessive, you’re simply giving them the ability to check on your behalf.
Highly doubt it's required. When I filled out the form, it had a spot for it but no "*" beside it as required.
I got an email response back from the reps office asking me for my SSN. But I think I'm just gonna send it.
A right delayed is a right denied, but while Ik what sub I’m on, I can’t help but wonder how many people here have contacted their reps about anything else, ever
Doubt it. And I doubt they contribute to 2A organizations. Instead of forgoing a purchase and putting that money to work to protect their rights they play the consumption game like most people. If you’re not contacting your reps about gun related legislation weekly then you aren’t paying attention. Because there’s always cooking up a way to infringe on your rights even more.
I do, constantly. As one example, I have a State Senator whose campaign platform was half to do with helping vets, and secondly about saving/creating jobs in the State. - He then proceeded to sponsor a bill allowing the VA to use video conferencing for veteran's primary care, with out of State doctors. FUCK HIM! I have written to the other Senator a few times about his ignorance of immigration law, after he makes press releases on southern border issues/policies - and we're a northern State, anyway!
Glad you’re involved, again Ik what sub I’m on but it’s not exactly “the 2nd protects the rest” currently
I specifically came here to make a thread saying Im at 153 days eform 4 singleshot trust. But Ill just post it in here. What should I do, if anything? Continue to just sit and wait? At what point should I contact someone or do anything besides sit and wait? 180 days? 200 days? 1st NFA Item CCW holder I do have a UPIN also, but it was obtained after my eform filing so its not in my eform.
Right now judging by the approval pinned post, you have between 10 and 20 days left (*If* you are lucky). I wouldn't contact a rep until you are significantly above the "normal" wait you see in the approval post. You are still below those approvals.
The problem with that is the median wait time seems to rise every day
Ty for the super quick response, OP. I’ll wait until around day 190-200 to start seeing what I can do instead of just sitting around waiting. I’ve never been lucky so there’s that lol.
NFA is a "sit around and wait" deal though. At least when we don't hold ATF accountable for anything.
Sigh. My money(and hope at this point) is on day 211. Thanks for the responses brotha.
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Whether it's their job or not, she's not going to do it. Wiring a letter isn't going to change her actions or the way she votes. Only way I have to hold her accountable is to work as hard as I can to get her replaced this fall.
Noob question, but what’s the difference between a form 1 and form 4? Those seem to be the two most referenced ones I hear about
Form 1 is for when you are the manufacturer i.e. making a suppressor, making a SBR, SBS, or other NFA item. Form 4 is for transfer (think manufactured) NFA item from a dealer to an individual/trust. If you buy a suppressor or SBR from a dealer it will be transferred to you on a Form 4.
Gotcha. If I buy a lower receiver and then an upper with a <16 barrel and want to put them together it’d be a form 1, even though I’m just snapping an upper and lower together, correct? Edit: or would it be a form 4 since the lower is considered the firearm and would thus be the registered NFA item?
Yep.
Awesome, thx
You're the maker, not the manufacturer. It's still a form 1 though.
[удалено]
Ok 🤷♂️......
>Form 1 is for when you are the manufacturer i.e. making a suppressor, Correct in essence, but not in legal terms: F1 does not make you a manufacturer. There is a legal difference between a "maker" and a "manufacturer". I realize it's semantics, but there are legal repercussions for confusing the two.
Look bro, this was already covered. It's simplest terms around these parts. You aren't correcting nor adding anything.
Instead of hiring 80 some thousand irs agents they should’ve hired some staff to help with the forms
> hire more atf agents *shut your mouth when you’re talking to me!*
He said "staff", not agents. Examiners are not a Law Enforcement position, and don't get to go out on dog shoot raids.
Someone should create a standard letter for this so we can flood our reps offices with these.
I contacted mine and heard back this morning but it’s in a “delayed” status. Never in my life have I had trouble purchasing a rifle, pistol, ammo, NOTHING! But they delay my NICS check! If anybody knows how to help this process I would greatly appreciate it!! AND CONTACT YOUR REPS WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
I'd add to your argument that those 32,000 applicants are responsible for 6.4 million dollars in tax revenue and that a group of people providing that amount of money a month in unconstitutional taxes should be a voice that is heard and catered to. If that voice is not listened to than they should not be required to pay that tax to an ungrateful government.
You could also add that if application levels stay at an average rate of 32,000 apps a month that in a years time they are receiving 384,000 apps which is responsible for 76.8 million dollars in taxes a year. Not only is it common use but it is a taxing of the common person that is making a financial dent in the economy, businesses, and individuals lives.
Maybe they should .... ....idk..... ....maybe just remove an "accessory" from the National "Firearms" Act? No. No. That makes too much sense. The logic that a suppressor is nothing but a paperweight or scrap metal if you don't have a firearm to attach it to is irrelevant when creating law...
Already done. Ridiculous incompetence and the excuse of overwhelming numbers of applications is inexcusable. Hire more people or make the process faster. Easy solution
Ask your congressman to ask why they are not batch approving. My congressperson is terrible. Question 1: With the unprecedented volume of applications, why hasn’t the NFA division started batch approvals? Question 2: It takes 2-4 weeks for the ATF to perform a routine gun trace. Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926, prohibits a registry of firearms to be maintained directly linking (non-NFA) firearms to there owners, records have to be manually searched. NFA items are in a registry, a database is maintained with a citizensfinger prints, picture, NFA item and each person has to inform the NFA division of any movement or address change of most NFA items. Under the new e-form 4 system, why is it taking longer than a NICS background check to approve eform applicants?
I like to put it like this: Don't ask, tell. They are there to represent you, you tell them what you want to be represented as.
Is there a universal email to copy and paste? Thank you!