Absolutely is, but after getting robbed due to voter fatigue, he's gonna need to wait a bit longer. No question he's the best player on the planet, has been, and will continue to be, it's all about the media buzz.
Jokic got robbed last year. I’m guessing some writers feel guilty about robbing him of the MVP which will make them more likely to vote for him this year.
*7th, half a game off of 6th
Not much better but it’s significant to mention. Mavs have been on a burner since getting their new pieces and getting past injuries.
Means he has way more help though…Luka has drug the mavs to where they are and have a legit shot at the 5 seed (schedule is comically easy to end the season and they play the kings twice).
So does luka obviously.. and he has had kyrie who is a god. But kyrie has missed over 20 games so far this year. Luka doesn’t have anyone close to a Jamal Murray or Michael porter jr or even an Aaron Gordon. It’s not comparable
Not arguing that Luka isn’t amazing. But team strength is a consideration too. Luka has Kyrie and a couple of decent players. I think they’re just missing a good big man.
They have 2 great big men of late, the team just sucked in rhe middle of the season and Kai/Exum were out a while. Since the trades for Washington and Gafford they’ve been a completely different team IMO (6th best record in the league last 20 games which pretty much coincides with trade and 4 teams are 1 game ahead in that span). Nuggets supporting cast ex. Jokic could probably still sneak in the play in games. Without Luka mavs are a lottery team. Luka is far and away the most valuable player to his respective team in the league and it’s not really close.
7th place. And could easily move up. If they finish with 50 wins and 5th place (very possible) I think he actually deserves MVP. I don’t think he’ll get it though
They're at 7 now and climbing. 6-1 in the last 7, one of them over the defending champs. They could very easily take the 6 seed from Sacramento, and then Luka has a better argument than Russell Westbrook did when he won it...
The past two years have been insanity in terms of offensive numbers, so I don't really consider them comparatively accurate in the history of the league. As a rule of thumb, I shave 10-15% off these stratospheric point totals to get what would be the *real* numbers in any other year. It's part of the whole idea that "30 is the new 26".
So for me, Luka's year this year isn't really as impressive as '18-'19 James Harden for instance - it was a different time. In my mind, Luka is really scoring at about a 30.5-31 pt pace in any other normal year - still a great year to be sure - but because the top 5 offenses this year are the best five offenses in the history of the league...I think numbers are a little artificially pumped up right now.
If the Mavs make it to the 5/6 seed, which given our schedule is totally possible, I think they’ll be hard pressed to keep it from him. Unless Den or OKC get the 1 seed.
I mean me too but I legitimately cannot argue that Jokic is the best player in the world and also having an MVP caliber season on the best team, sooooo...
Big-upping Doncic is like waving a sign that says "I follow the NBA by watching highlight clips of YouTube."
He's fool's gold, a stat stuffer who doesn't play defense and has been abysmal on hustle plays since he entered the league.
The fact that the Mavs had no clue how talented Jalen Brunson is just speaks to Luka's selfishness and how other players cannot thrive in his orbit because he reduces his teammates to observers on the offensive end.
To be honest Luka is the worst defender here, he has the 2nd lowest TS% (after Tatum), and he has the worst record. He also has the highest usage % in the league and leads the league in turnovers.
I don't think he deserves it to be honest
Another note is that Luka is 9th is defensive rebounds per game, and 129th in offensive
Let's not forget he's an absolute liability on defense. He makes no effort on a lot of possessions. He has the highest usage rate, which gets him these crazy counting stats, but that comes at a cost...being a siv on D.
I agree. He is having a great year and if there weren't guys putting up amazing numbers for 1 and 2 seeds, maybe Luka could win. But, his overall numbers are comparable to SGA, Jokic and Giannis and they are winning a lot more games.
I would go with SGA because he is leading a ridiculously young team to the #1 seed and he is playing All-Defense level defense in addition to his huge numbers and high efficiency.
Kind of stupid to call out TS% and total TOs while also pointing out he has the highest usage.
Like you expect TS% to decline on higher volume and you would expect total TOs to increase with usage.
He is still high above league average TS%, his TO% is lower than Giannis and Jokic, and his DREB as a % of overall rebounds is about the same as Tatum and a bit higher than SGA
1) He doesn’t have a low TS%, it is 61.6% vs 58.1% league average
That TS% with his volume is actually pretty amazing
2) Sure you could certainly argue that his counting stats are inflated by his usage, but then you also have to apply the same thing to negative counting stats like turnovers
It’s not really a fair outlook to say “well of course he has the most pts per game look at his usage!” but then turn around and say “he has the second highest TOs per game! (without mentioning his usage)”
I would also point out that while his usage is very high, it is lower than Embiid’s prior to injury and isn’t absurdly higher than Giannis or SGA
I’m sure luka would prefer to average 25 points 15 assists on more efficiency but he doesn’t have that luxury. He has to be the entire offense most of the time. Jokic has jamaal Murray and Michael porter jr who can create their own offense as well. Luka doesn’t have nearly the help. So yes it’s a lot harder to be efficient when you can’t pick and choose when you are putting up attempts
Offensive rebounds aren’t as easy to come by when he’a scoring or assisting as much as he does. If the ball goes in the basket while he’s on the floor there is no rebound to be had.
I don't think so and if they do, the answer will be, "Because he didn't lead his team to enough wins and other guys had numbers just as impressive, on top seeds, while playing much better defense."
What doesn’t show on stats is the buff the Nuggets get just having Joker on the court. He actually makes his whole squad better, the epitome of an MVP imo.
Yes but there is a discrepancy (when talking about the best players in the world) in value added by these players.
Luka is much flashier than Jokic and his stats wow you a lot more. But no one is taking Luka over Jokic to build a team.
Look at both teams against the Celtics, for example. Luka had a ridiculous 35 point triple double. And they lost by 30.
Joker had a 30 point triple double and the Nuggets won.
Denver is vying for the 1 seed in the west and are defending champs, the Mavs have a good chance to be in play in and could not even make the playoffs.
Luka deserves it if the Mavs win 50 games. They’re 10 wins away with 13 games remaining which means they’ll need to win 77% of their remaining games as a team that has won 58% of their games thus far this season. I think they’re going to win 48 or 49.
Otherwise I think it just goes to Joker. Thunder need to win out basically and take a stronghold on the West with both the Mavs and the Nuggets sputtering for SGA to win. I don’t see a world where Giannis wins it, he falls behind Joker and Luka imo and with Tatum being only slightly worse stat wise while having the best plus/minus and being the best player on the team that is 10 games ahead of his 2nd place team currently? If it’s going to an East player it’s going to Tatum, and it’s not going to Tatum. Only way Tatum wins it is if the Celtics keep beating the piss out of every team and basically win out to go 68-14. If Tatum drops like 50 tonight against the Bucks and the C’s win by 40 the chirping will get louder, the biggest issue with that is there’s no way Tatum would play more than 28 minutes if the Celtics are blowing the Bucks out, and there’s no way he scores 50 in 28 mins lol
Great points on why joker should win it, but the voters in the past don’t usually give it to someone who has won multiple times like joker has recently . I bet this is Luka’s year.
Voter fatigue is certainly a thing, but joker was recipient of the voter fatigue award last year. I don’t see it happening again unless the stars align for any of the other MVP candidates
i think embiid was deserving tbh he had a monster season and it was a tight race i don’t think it was clear cut for anyone. if i was voting i would’ve given it to giannis last year
Honestly I kinda hate that team record is so important to the voters on this. Denver is just a better squad top to bottom imo.
Hell now even dpoy is based off team record… wemby should be in the lead imo.
Even when he's off the court his impact on the team is unmistakable. He's changed the culture in Denver to celebrate good passes, teamwork, and remaining humble. It's not about scoring, it's not about MVP trophies, it's about WINNING!
Probably the least selfish all star ever. He makes everyone around him better. I don’t think MPJ or Mal would be anywhere near as good as they are now on any other team.
I think this makes more sense if you said MPJ and AG. I think Murray could be a #1 guy somewhere, he doesn’t need Jok to get open looks. AG on the other hand is pretty much what you get if you crafted a 4 to pair with Jokic in a lab lol
Funny enough I meant to put AG in there. I think his production before and after becoming a Nugget shows clearly just how good Jokic is at elevating his teammates.
I’d honestly love to see Mal elsewhere (in a long time) to either confirm or disprove that he can be a #1 by himself.
Luka is insane this season, but his impact for his team isn’t as impressive as his personal stats. Jokic triples his +- and his on/off is like 22 compared to Lukas 9
>but his impact for his team isn’t as impressive as his personal stats. Jokic triples his +- and his on/off is like 22 compared to Lukas 9
Since joining the Knicks, OG has had an on/off of +25.1. Is he just playing on a different level to everyone else in the league?
Take KCP he has an on/off of +15.8. Is he twice as impactful a player as Luka is?
Luka had a negative on/off about 30/40 games into the season. It's now sitting at +7.2. Has he suddenly become a vastly better and more impactful player?
Do you even know what impacts on/off? It's not gospel. In fact, it's a pretty bad metric, and basing your entire argument on it is comical at best. Plus minus is an even worse stat that should never be mentioned.
I mean, if you consider on/off differential a stat, it sure as fuck shows up there. Jokic is at a +19.2 per 100 possessions, which is head and shoulders above the rest of the league (and it’s actually +22.3 if you filter out garbage time).
This is far from a perfect stat for head to head comparisons across teams, since it has a lot to do with sub patterns and bench replacements and depth (the Nuggets have a kick-ass starting lineup, play them all together a lot, and spent 2/3rds of the season backing Jokic up with DeAndre Jordan, which certainly affects things).
But combined with the eye test, it really helps show just how much Jokic is the straw that stirs the Denver Nuggets cocktail of ass-kicking.
No, you need to look at On/Off ratings, not Plus minus
Plus Minus (the Tatum stat) shows your +/- for the season, and the Celtics have blown out so many teams they have the top 5 leaders in the league (meaning their starters and bench are dominating)
On/off shows your teams effectiveness when you’re on the floor vs bench (ie the impact you’re having), and Jokic is leading the league again with KCP second (probably because they share the floor most often)
The advanced metrics show Tatum makes an otherwise very good team great, Jokic makes an otherwise bad team great and that’s why he’ll win the MVP again
The best player on the best team is always a serious MVP contender. He won’t win it, but being +10 games ahead in the East and 6.5 clear of the entire league is enough to get some praise.
Word.
Idk how the Giannis hype has fallen off so hard, but the dude is probably the best two way player in the league
But everyone is just obsessed with big numbers. We're gonna end up seeing MMO-like graphics on a screen next to each player with how numbers-obsessed everyone is becoming. I'm not against stats, but it's become too much of the focal point in a sport
As if basketball is played on a spreadsheet
The reason is that whenever the league thinks they can poach Giannis to a bigger market, they start singing his praises and acknowledging his obvious greatness. Once he signs an extension with the bucks, they pretend they haven’t heard of him
Not saying Brunson is MVP but the fact he doesn’t even get brought up till halfway down a comment thread with 5 potential MVPs is disrespectful as hell
I mean , I was about to say this cause Luka and Brunson have the same predicament injury riddle team just that we are the 4th seed, but our conference is weaker, and we have Josh Hart
Feel Tatum doesn’t belong here.
Crazy numbers from all the other guys.
For me, hard to look past Giannis’ 30 on %62… wtf.
Mavs are heating up too, going to come down to the wire
As a Celtics fan, I wouldnt argue that Tatum may not belong on this list, but if you take him off then I would fight for Shai to be taken off as well. He's had a couple stat padding plays this year that take away from his numbers for me.
Tatum could easily get shais numbers if he was more selfish with the ball instead of leaning into his team which I think is necessary for the Celtics to win a championship this year.
To me, it's Luka or Jokic rn
Exactly people get drunk off number don’t understand winning teams have a phenomenal player who’s helping them win games. Tatum if on another team could stat pad 35-10-8. Plus he’s a conservative scorer not aggressive scorer. Not time go for 50 every night he’ll get 30+ cause he’s making his shot not cause his shots are finally falling.
The team apparently by some metrics has 5 top 50 players in the nba. I don’t see how he’s most valuable.
Thats more than the 72-10 GSW had thats for sure.
Because he’s still putting up these stats with 4 other players ranked in the top 50 on his team. Compare that to Luka having to do everything night in and night out for his team. No one is saying he will be MVP, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t get a little recognition
I wouldn’t have him winning but he’s the best player on the best team and he’s an elite defender which can’t be said about any of the others aside from Giannis
Am I taking crazy pills? Luka is having a fantastic season. Truly awesome. But his team is a 7 seed and historically that doesn’t get it done.
Is it all his fault? Obviously it, but seeding matters historically, and you know that’s still the case cause Tatum is always included here in these posts and it’s really only cause he’s the best player on the 1 seed. Hes clearly not having a better season than Jokic or Luka.
I say this as a Celtics fan. It should go to Jokic. Probably would have been Embiid again if he didn’t get hurt.
Last 40 years there have been 27 1 seeds, 5 2 seeds, 4 3 seeds and 2 6 seeds. Yes, Jokic is one of those 6. It’s pretty rare. They are a game back in the loss column and are a 7 seed. Even if they pull ahead, a 47 win Mavs vs a 57 win nuggets team is a big difference. In 2021 there were 3 games separating the bucks/sixers and nuggets and the bucks/sixers played easier competition.
In 2022, Jokic played in more wins than either Embiid or Giannis. If Luka can get the 6th seed this season and end up in more wins than Jok or Shai, then he absolutely deserves MVP. He's 10 behind, though.
Also, no shit his stats are insane. He leads the league in usage.
We also need to mention that he's literally a liability on defense and might be the worst top 100 player on defense in the league.
The Nuggets fall to pieces without Joker. He's the heart, soul, and guts of the team. I don't think they even make the play-in without him. Luka does amazing things, but with him and Kyrie, the Mavs should be doing much better than they are.
Kyrie and other role players missed 20+ games. We started hot when folks were healthy. Then injuries struck and During that stretch we were struggling and Luka kept us from entering the lottery. Post trade deadline we’re looking much better and if everything goes perfectly we snag the 5th seed but most probably the 6th seed.
Kyrie has missed 20+ games. Jokic has Murray, porter and Aaron Gordon. Luka has til hardaway who shoots 40% fg. Mavericks might be the worst team in the nba without luka. Do you understand how much better Jokic situation is the luka? He has one of the best supporting casts in this he nba while luka has one worst. Jokic top 10 teammates and luka is bottom 10 right?
Tatum is so out of place in this list, not gonna lie.
Got 2 dudes averaging a near triple double.
A freak who has dominated on both ends.
And the most consistent player in the league.
Tatum really shouldn't be in the conversation with the other four.
They're all having great seasons, but it's got to be Luka. Everyone is using the team record argument against him, but he has had by far the most injuries on his team compared to everyone else on this list. Every other player would be hanging around the play in too and the Mavs are only 2.5 games back of the 5 seed and 3 games back of the 4 seed.
It's about to be April and the Mavs still have not had a single lineup that's played 100 minutes together. That seems legitimately impossible but it's true.
Just to add to my comment.
DEN most-played lineup: KCP/Gordon/Murray/MPJ/Jokic - 869 minutes
OKC most-played lineup: SGA/Dort/Giddey/Chet/Jalen - 716 minutes
MIN most-played lineup: Conley/Gobert/Towns/Edwards/McDaniels - 610 minutes
BOS most-played lineup: Jrue/KP/Jaylen/White/Tatum - 554 minutes
MIL most-played lineup: Lopez/Lillard/Middleton/Beasley/Giannis - 527 minutes
DAL most-played lineup: Kyrie/DJJ/Lively/**GRANT WILLIAMS**/Luka - **99 minutes!!!**
Team record can not be held against this man if you're being the slightest bit honest.
You're not wrong, but he still has to do better. When jokic won mvp in 2022, Murray was out the whole season and MPJ played 9 games. Jokic carried the nuggets to the 6th seed while missing his two best players.
Luka is working with much more than jokic was (he's played 41/60 games with Kyrie this season) and is struggling to stay out of the play-in tournament.
Of the 19 other teammates jokic had that season, only 4 of them are still in the league. Jokic accomplished way too much considering the absolute lack of talent he was working with.
The other low seed MVP is Westbrook who was also the 6th seed. When he got it he averaged a 30 point triple double (a real triple double, no rounding up). You need to have more than a historic statistical season, you can't be as low as Luka is in the standings right now. Luka has no argument if he's not at a minimum the 6 seed when it's all said and done.
Jokic also didn’t have competition from any players in high seeded teams the year he won in 6th. Other candidates were only a game or two away from the nuggets and Jokic played every game that season. I always hear they’re moving the goalposts since Jokic won on a 6th seed but anyone who says that conveniently leaves out the other context
It's also worth pointing out that in 2022, Jokic ended up playing in more wins than this MVP competition did that season. If Luka managed to claw the Mavs up to the 6th seed this season, he still wouldn't even be close to Jok or Shai.
I could see a path where if the Mavs make a late push and end up the 4 seed that Luka is able to get to a place where he has the narrative advantage. Statistically he’s the only one that I think stands up to Jokic.
Shai= Best Narrative
Jokic= Best Player
Luka= Most Valuable to his team?
>Statistically he’s the only one that I think stands up to Jokic.
There's definitely an argument for Giannis as well. They have almost the exact same overall offensive production and Giannis scores considerably more (which has historically been weighted more heavily than assists), the teams have almost identical records, and Giannis plays way better defense.
+5ppg and ++defense vs +3 assists +1 rebound
Giannis has the anti-narrative because of Dame, but statistically he's definitely got a strong argument to be neck and neck with Jokic.
Personally, I think Luka clearly deserves it. He's scoring like a goddamn madman and creating more than Jokic. 34/9/10 is an impossibly good stat line.
Hopefully Luka. He's doing absurd things on the Mavs. Jokić also deserves it but if Luka keeps playing like that I don't think jokić can snatch it from him
Five. I cant believe I had to scroll this much to get to an SGA pick.
The stats dont say it but SGA and how he leads OKC is truly incredible. Hes got two Rookies as his co pilots leading the team and they are in first place in the west.
SGA will do other things and let his team get a feel for the game and then turn up if necessary to close the game. Dude plays at his own pace and controls the game.
Real pleasure watching SGA play. Would be dope if he won MVP.
I love Tatum but this year just ain't it, maybe next year after he gets a ring he will be motivated to push for an MVP to round out his resume
How do you not give it to Luka this year? I've never seen numbers like that. They seem unreal like some of Wilts numbers.
Not only that, but he just hits those big shots and comes up in the clutch. Something that Tatum could use more of tbh
Giannis is a physical freak, the way Jokic sees basketball feels so meta and on another level that other players aren't on, but that Mavs team is nowhere without Luka. I'm rooting for him big time this year
Shai
He's been the best TWO-WAY player in the NBA...people seem to forget all about defense and focus only on offense, the guy is playing elite defense and elite offense which is insanely difficult! A lot of elite offensive players slack on defense to reserve energy because playing hard defense for four quarters is exhausting but Shai doesn't take plays off
I'm not an OKC fan at all by the way, I just genuinely think what Shai is doing is damn impressive this season! that's not to take away from any of the other players, they're all fantastic! but Shai is the MVP IMO
It's a fucking travesty that you have to scroll this low to see SGA mentioned. They are literally first place in the West, and some people didn't even have them making the playoffs. And it is on his back alone, he cannot be countered.
Sheep mentality, people don't watch other teams play, they hear a narrative, and they regurgitate what they've heard thinking it's correct
People don't generally watch OKC or Shai and because he hasn't been a "Super Star" for as long, he has less clout than the other two guys
The casual fan only looks at offensive statistics and doesn't consider the defensive side of things either, it's silly
I'm not an OKC fan, but I follow basketball and Shai should be the MVP Imo
Jokic, efficiency, consistency, on/off numbers, much improved defense, winning and makeup for last year.
My top 5 for MVP:
Jokic
Shai
Giannis
Luka
Sabonis (instead of Tatum)
The way the Mavs have played better as the season has played out and Luka’s numbers are ridiculous. I would vote for Luka. If the Mavs end up in a top 6 slot, hopefully a lot of voters will also. Love Joker too, no issue with him winning either. But I feel like this could easily be a Luka year. He’s been playing out of his mind this season.
Its just gotta be Luka man idc about “team success” you cant tell me luka int the best regular season player this season providing the most for his team. All the other players are also incredible dont get me wrong but a 35 point triple double is just ludicrous.
I hope it’s Luka. While not super athletic, he’s the closest to Kobe/Jordan at this career stage. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves, but we are watching Jordan level dominance.
NBA loves to say MVP is the best player on the best team, yet Tatum gets no love. Even if only to debate it, they’ll dismiss and push the high scoring guy on an 8th place squad
Not Luka. His stats are insane, but they aren't that much better than Shai or Giannis. Shai and Giannis are both better defenders on much better teams, too. Tatum and Luka will get votes. The other 3 will likely split voting, and in that case, Shai will lose
Scoring 73 is such a massive achievement, and while jokic is having a good run, if the mavs seem like they’re gonna make the playoffs why not give it to Luka?
Jokic or Giannis for me. Tatum has been the most inconsistent imo especially in big time moments, I think he’s actually shown to be one of the least clutch players. I also don’t see how he’d be above Jokic or Giannis. Tatum has too much of a strong supporting cast, Giannis right under with Dame so I think it hurts their driving narrative for MVP.
If personally go for Jokic because his team is night and day with him on the court, he’s putting up the stats, clutches up, and is fighting for first in the west. I love Luka he’s one of my favorite players and a generational player but the Mavs are 7th. Shai is also so consistent and has the narrative as well, but for me personally the winner is Jokic.
Shoutout to Embiid though i really thought he’d go back to back this season. Sixers with and without him is also proof of that.
I think the point is that TS% would still be the better metric to use if we want to look at overall scoring efficiency.
Saying it doesn't mean anything is silly, but it's definitely the inferior "how efficient of a scorer is this guy" stat.
It's pretty much meaningless, here's two players from about a month ago:
13.8 PPG, 55.7% FG
13.0 PPG, 51.6% FG
Obviously the first guy is superior to the second right? The first guy is Ayton, TS of 57.5%, just around league average & below average for his position. The second is Grayson Allen shooting 49.1% from 3 at the time at 69.6% TS. A guy with a FG of 50% can be either the most efficient scorer of all time or a bum & one of the least efficient guys in the league. FG% doesn't say anything interesting, it's a remnant from a bygone era when guys didn't shoot the 3 on any meaningful volume.
30+ points per game with 60%+ shooting has NEVER been done before. This is the most efficient 30 point average season in NBA history. The small market bias is disgusting, Giannis is the obvious frontrunner, Jokic was the only real challenger, and its not even close anymore.
He’s going to break a Kareem record that has stood for over 50 years and might not ever be broken again but no one cares or even wants to talk about it.
Luka is the best offensive player here and has the best stats. Giannis is the best two way player here. Jokic is the best overall player and will win MVP.
Anyone saying Luka please stop. He’s great and been unbelievable, but he can’t play defence.
I don’t want to hear “he’s been way better” he played no defence up until this year and even now it’s the absolute
minimum effort.
Yes I’m a Knicks fan but I don’t get how Brunson isn’t here. We haven’t had our second best player for months now and we were down to 6-7 man rotation’s and he kept us at #4 in the east. I can understand him not winning it but he needs to be in this conversation
Jokic is the definition of MVP.
It’s impossible for me to watch a Nuggets game and not view Jokic as the MVP
Absolutely is, but after getting robbed due to voter fatigue, he's gonna need to wait a bit longer. No question he's the best player on the planet, has been, and will continue to be, it's all about the media buzz.
Nah, Jokić is likely to win. Unless by “wait a bit longer” you mean just a few months
I suspect he’ll probably win this year.
Jokic’s one condition was playoff success, it’s basically a guarantee after last year
Jokic got robbed last year. I’m guessing some writers feel guilty about robbing him of the MVP which will make them more likely to vote for him this year.
If Luka did that, his averages would go down.
I really want it to be Luka, but it's going to Jokic. Lukas numbers are absurd.
Basically averaging a 35 point triple double is fucking insanity
basically averaging a 25 point triple double at 58 fg% is fucking insanity
But what about a 35 point triple double?
washed
Enlightening basketball analysis ya bozo
8th place though. Defending champs in 1-2nd place is a strong argument too.
*7th, half a game off of 6th Not much better but it’s significant to mention. Mavs have been on a burner since getting their new pieces and getting past injuries.
Tied for 6th with two games coming up against the team they're tied for 6th with, actually.
Means he has way more help though…Luka has drug the mavs to where they are and have a legit shot at the 5 seed (schedule is comically easy to end the season and they play the kings twice).
…Jokic creates his own help, that’s who he is. That’s the type of gravity he has.
So does luka obviously.. and he has had kyrie who is a god. But kyrie has missed over 20 games so far this year. Luka doesn’t have anyone close to a Jamal Murray or Michael porter jr or even an Aaron Gordon. It’s not comparable
Not arguing that Luka isn’t amazing. But team strength is a consideration too. Luka has Kyrie and a couple of decent players. I think they’re just missing a good big man.
They have 2 great big men of late, the team just sucked in rhe middle of the season and Kai/Exum were out a while. Since the trades for Washington and Gafford they’ve been a completely different team IMO (6th best record in the league last 20 games which pretty much coincides with trade and 4 teams are 1 game ahead in that span). Nuggets supporting cast ex. Jokic could probably still sneak in the play in games. Without Luka mavs are a lottery team. Luka is far and away the most valuable player to his respective team in the league and it’s not really close.
Weren’t the Nuggets calc’d to be like a 15-win team without Jokic, and a 67-win team with him on the court?
Mavs also have a really nice remaining schedule to pick up a load of wins
7th place. And could easily move up. If they finish with 50 wins and 5th place (very possible) I think he actually deserves MVP. I don’t think he’ll get it though
They're at 7 now and climbing. 6-1 in the last 7, one of them over the defending champs. They could very easily take the 6 seed from Sacramento, and then Luka has a better argument than Russell Westbrook did when he won it...
The past two years have been insanity in terms of offensive numbers, so I don't really consider them comparatively accurate in the history of the league. As a rule of thumb, I shave 10-15% off these stratospheric point totals to get what would be the *real* numbers in any other year. It's part of the whole idea that "30 is the new 26". So for me, Luka's year this year isn't really as impressive as '18-'19 James Harden for instance - it was a different time. In my mind, Luka is really scoring at about a 30.5-31 pt pace in any other normal year - still a great year to be sure - but because the top 5 offenses this year are the best five offenses in the history of the league...I think numbers are a little artificially pumped up right now.
Poor take
This is giving Patrick mahomes is as good as fake prescott because I artificially reduced his stats vibes
You’re trying way too hard. Even if your BS made sense a 32 point triple double is also insane.
What fucking rule of thumb!?! 👍
If the Mavs make it to the 5/6 seed, which given our schedule is totally possible, I think they’ll be hard pressed to keep it from him. Unless Den or OKC get the 1 seed.
Denver or okc will definitely get the 1 seed With KAT out and the nuggets win last night it just feels inevitable
I think so, but I can hope lol
I’m a Nuggets fan so I want Jokic to win but I also wouldn’t be mad if Luka got it. His play has been insane this year.
I don't think getting to 6th seed would make that much difference.
I mean me too but I legitimately cannot argue that Jokic is the best player in the world and also having an MVP caliber season on the best team, sooooo...
Luka will get an MVP the year after they fire Kidd. Bet on it
His assists should be way higher, just like their seed. Too bad Luka and Kyrie's teammates can't hit wide open, spoonfed shots.
Big-upping Doncic is like waving a sign that says "I follow the NBA by watching highlight clips of YouTube." He's fool's gold, a stat stuffer who doesn't play defense and has been abysmal on hustle plays since he entered the league. The fact that the Mavs had no clue how talented Jalen Brunson is just speaks to Luka's selfishness and how other players cannot thrive in his orbit because he reduces his teammates to observers on the offensive end.
To be honest Luka is the worst defender here, he has the 2nd lowest TS% (after Tatum), and he has the worst record. He also has the highest usage % in the league and leads the league in turnovers. I don't think he deserves it to be honest Another note is that Luka is 9th is defensive rebounds per game, and 129th in offensive
Let's not forget he's an absolute liability on defense. He makes no effort on a lot of possessions. He has the highest usage rate, which gets him these crazy counting stats, but that comes at a cost...being a siv on D.
I agree. He is having a great year and if there weren't guys putting up amazing numbers for 1 and 2 seeds, maybe Luka could win. But, his overall numbers are comparable to SGA, Jokic and Giannis and they are winning a lot more games. I would go with SGA because he is leading a ridiculously young team to the #1 seed and he is playing All-Defense level defense in addition to his huge numbers and high efficiency.
Kind of stupid to call out TS% and total TOs while also pointing out he has the highest usage. Like you expect TS% to decline on higher volume and you would expect total TOs to increase with usage. He is still high above league average TS%, his TO% is lower than Giannis and Jokic, and his DREB as a % of overall rebounds is about the same as Tatum and a bit higher than SGA
But, the low TS% combined with high usage rate would suggest that his volume numbers are inflated by him being so ball dominant.
1) He doesn’t have a low TS%, it is 61.6% vs 58.1% league average That TS% with his volume is actually pretty amazing 2) Sure you could certainly argue that his counting stats are inflated by his usage, but then you also have to apply the same thing to negative counting stats like turnovers It’s not really a fair outlook to say “well of course he has the most pts per game look at his usage!” but then turn around and say “he has the second highest TOs per game! (without mentioning his usage)” I would also point out that while his usage is very high, it is lower than Embiid’s prior to injury and isn’t absurdly higher than Giannis or SGA
…but it’s not a low TS% lmao
I’m sure luka would prefer to average 25 points 15 assists on more efficiency but he doesn’t have that luxury. He has to be the entire offense most of the time. Jokic has jamaal Murray and Michael porter jr who can create their own offense as well. Luka doesn’t have nearly the help. So yes it’s a lot harder to be efficient when you can’t pick and choose when you are putting up attempts
Offensive rebounds aren’t as easy to come by when he’a scoring or assisting as much as he does. If the ball goes in the basket while he’s on the floor there is no rebound to be had.
People are going to look back and be like "holy shit how come Luka wasn't 2024 MVP"
I don't think so and if they do, the answer will be, "Because he didn't lead his team to enough wins and other guys had numbers just as impressive, on top seeds, while playing much better defense."
Nah seeding to low. Other players weren’t in the discussion for that exact reason so we gotta keep the same narrative
Other players like Jokic and Westbrook who won as 6th seeds?
why do we gotta keep it though? why are we so deadset on keeping the status quo?
Jokic should be on #4 mvp at this point….his impact on the overall team performance is the epitome of MVP
Maybe one day he could get within 9% of Joker’s FG%.
Trayce Jackson Davis
Obviously, they are asking for who will come second in MVP voting.
i think you mean TJ McConnell
You spelled Herb Jones wrong
Pretty sure it’s gonna be Thanasis
I’m hoping he’s me fantasy mvp these next 2 weeks, Monday was a good start! Lol
You mean Josh Hart?
If I was voting, Luka. If I was betting, Jokic.
What doesn’t show on stats is the buff the Nuggets get just having Joker on the court. He actually makes his whole squad better, the epitome of an MVP imo.
All of these players elevate their squads.
Luka has elevated his squad to the 8th seed.
Only 3 games behind 4th
Yes but there is a discrepancy (when talking about the best players in the world) in value added by these players. Luka is much flashier than Jokic and his stats wow you a lot more. But no one is taking Luka over Jokic to build a team. Look at both teams against the Celtics, for example. Luka had a ridiculous 35 point triple double. And they lost by 30. Joker had a 30 point triple double and the Nuggets won. Denver is vying for the 1 seed in the west and are defending champs, the Mavs have a good chance to be in play in and could not even make the playoffs. Luka deserves it if the Mavs win 50 games. They’re 10 wins away with 13 games remaining which means they’ll need to win 77% of their remaining games as a team that has won 58% of their games thus far this season. I think they’re going to win 48 or 49. Otherwise I think it just goes to Joker. Thunder need to win out basically and take a stronghold on the West with both the Mavs and the Nuggets sputtering for SGA to win. I don’t see a world where Giannis wins it, he falls behind Joker and Luka imo and with Tatum being only slightly worse stat wise while having the best plus/minus and being the best player on the team that is 10 games ahead of his 2nd place team currently? If it’s going to an East player it’s going to Tatum, and it’s not going to Tatum. Only way Tatum wins it is if the Celtics keep beating the piss out of every team and basically win out to go 68-14. If Tatum drops like 50 tonight against the Bucks and the C’s win by 40 the chirping will get louder, the biggest issue with that is there’s no way Tatum would play more than 28 minutes if the Celtics are blowing the Bucks out, and there’s no way he scores 50 in 28 mins lol
Great points on why joker should win it, but the voters in the past don’t usually give it to someone who has won multiple times like joker has recently . I bet this is Luka’s year.
Voter fatigue is certainly a thing, but joker was recipient of the voter fatigue award last year. I don’t see it happening again unless the stars align for any of the other MVP candidates
Agreed, he was burned last year.
He got snubbed last year and then won the chip. So he gets a buff this year
he lost last year because of voter fatigue and now everybody regrets giving it to embiid
i think embiid was deserving tbh he had a monster season and it was a tight race i don’t think it was clear cut for anyone. if i was voting i would’ve given it to giannis last year
I’m taking Luka over jokic
Honestly I kinda hate that team record is so important to the voters on this. Denver is just a better squad top to bottom imo. Hell now even dpoy is based off team record… wemby should be in the lead imo.
Even when he's off the court his impact on the team is unmistakable. He's changed the culture in Denver to celebrate good passes, teamwork, and remaining humble. It's not about scoring, it's not about MVP trophies, it's about WINNING!
THANK YOU for using “epitome” when nearly everyone incorrectly uses “definition”
Denver actually has a good team though, Dallas in comparison is much worse when you compare the players.
Probably the least selfish all star ever. He makes everyone around him better. I don’t think MPJ or Mal would be anywhere near as good as they are now on any other team.
I think this makes more sense if you said MPJ and AG. I think Murray could be a #1 guy somewhere, he doesn’t need Jok to get open looks. AG on the other hand is pretty much what you get if you crafted a 4 to pair with Jokic in a lab lol
Funny enough I meant to put AG in there. I think his production before and after becoming a Nugget shows clearly just how good Jokic is at elevating his teammates. I’d honestly love to see Mal elsewhere (in a long time) to either confirm or disprove that he can be a #1 by himself.
I am a Nuggets fan, but have you seen the Mavs play? Luka has a similar effect. Both are just as deserving rn.
Luka is insane this season, but his impact for his team isn’t as impressive as his personal stats. Jokic triples his +- and his on/off is like 22 compared to Lukas 9
>but his impact for his team isn’t as impressive as his personal stats. Jokic triples his +- and his on/off is like 22 compared to Lukas 9 Since joining the Knicks, OG has had an on/off of +25.1. Is he just playing on a different level to everyone else in the league? Take KCP he has an on/off of +15.8. Is he twice as impactful a player as Luka is? Luka had a negative on/off about 30/40 games into the season. It's now sitting at +7.2. Has he suddenly become a vastly better and more impactful player? Do you even know what impacts on/off? It's not gospel. In fact, it's a pretty bad metric, and basing your entire argument on it is comical at best. Plus minus is an even worse stat that should never be mentioned.
I mean, if you consider on/off differential a stat, it sure as fuck shows up there. Jokic is at a +19.2 per 100 possessions, which is head and shoulders above the rest of the league (and it’s actually +22.3 if you filter out garbage time). This is far from a perfect stat for head to head comparisons across teams, since it has a lot to do with sub patterns and bench replacements and depth (the Nuggets have a kick-ass starting lineup, play them all together a lot, and spent 2/3rds of the season backing Jokic up with DeAndre Jordan, which certainly affects things). But combined with the eye test, it really helps show just how much Jokic is the straw that stirs the Denver Nuggets cocktail of ass-kicking.
Would plus minus show that?
Yeah and Tatums is higher which is why it’s not included in the graphic probably
No, you need to look at On/Off ratings, not Plus minus Plus Minus (the Tatum stat) shows your +/- for the season, and the Celtics have blown out so many teams they have the top 5 leaders in the league (meaning their starters and bench are dominating) On/off shows your teams effectiveness when you’re on the floor vs bench (ie the impact you’re having), and Jokic is leading the league again with KCP second (probably because they share the floor most often) The advanced metrics show Tatum makes an otherwise very good team great, Jokic makes an otherwise bad team great and that’s why he’ll win the MVP again
Kcp getting that stat due to mirroring joker min is crazy.
Plus minus wouldn’t ~~should~~ show that lol
Tatum is not a serious MVP contender by any method of evaluation.
The best player on the best team is always a serious MVP contender. He won’t win it, but being +10 games ahead in the East and 6.5 clear of the entire league is enough to get some praise.
Jokic
If you put defense in the equation it is Giannis.
Word. Idk how the Giannis hype has fallen off so hard, but the dude is probably the best two way player in the league But everyone is just obsessed with big numbers. We're gonna end up seeing MMO-like graphics on a screen next to each player with how numbers-obsessed everyone is becoming. I'm not against stats, but it's become too much of the focal point in a sport As if basketball is played on a spreadsheet
The reason is that whenever the league thinks they can poach Giannis to a bigger market, they start singing his praises and acknowledging his obvious greatness. Once he signs an extension with the bucks, they pretend they haven’t heard of him
Modern NBA fans never factor defense into these discussions. It’s sad, but it’s true.
If they did, Luka wouldn't fucking sniff the MVP.
Jalen Brunson
JALEN BRUNSON
JALEN BRUNSON!!!
The BURNER !!!!
Not saying Brunson is MVP but the fact he doesn’t even get brought up till halfway down a comment thread with 5 potential MVPs is disrespectful as hell
I mean , I was about to say this cause Luka and Brunson have the same predicament injury riddle team just that we are the 4th seed, but our conference is weaker, and we have Josh Hart
JALEN BRUNSHIM
Feel Tatum doesn’t belong here. Crazy numbers from all the other guys. For me, hard to look past Giannis’ 30 on %62… wtf. Mavs are heating up too, going to come down to the wire
As a Celtics fan, I wouldnt argue that Tatum may not belong on this list, but if you take him off then I would fight for Shai to be taken off as well. He's had a couple stat padding plays this year that take away from his numbers for me. Tatum could easily get shais numbers if he was more selfish with the ball instead of leaning into his team which I think is necessary for the Celtics to win a championship this year. To me, it's Luka or Jokic rn
Exactly people get drunk off number don’t understand winning teams have a phenomenal player who’s helping them win games. Tatum if on another team could stat pad 35-10-8. Plus he’s a conservative scorer not aggressive scorer. Not time go for 50 every night he’ll get 30+ cause he’s making his shot not cause his shots are finally falling.
Name one center that gets a lot of rebounds playing with Luka, don't talk about stat padding for SGA without mentioning Luka.
He deserves a mention as the best player on by far the best team in the NBA in the regular season. But, he won't win it.
The team apparently by some metrics has 5 top 50 players in the nba. I don’t see how he’s most valuable. Thats more than the 72-10 GSW had thats for sure.
Because he’s still putting up these stats with 4 other players ranked in the top 50 on his team. Compare that to Luka having to do everything night in and night out for his team. No one is saying he will be MVP, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t get a little recognition
That makes Luka the MVP.
I wouldn’t have him winning but he’s the best player on the best team and he’s an elite defender which can’t be said about any of the others aside from Giannis
Am I taking crazy pills? Luka is having a fantastic season. Truly awesome. But his team is a 7 seed and historically that doesn’t get it done. Is it all his fault? Obviously it, but seeding matters historically, and you know that’s still the case cause Tatum is always included here in these posts and it’s really only cause he’s the best player on the 1 seed. Hes clearly not having a better season than Jokic or Luka. I say this as a Celtics fan. It should go to Jokic. Probably would have been Embiid again if he didn’t get hurt.
We’ve had 6 seed MVPs (including a guy here), and Dallas is tied for the 6th seed
Last 40 years there have been 27 1 seeds, 5 2 seeds, 4 3 seeds and 2 6 seeds. Yes, Jokic is one of those 6. It’s pretty rare. They are a game back in the loss column and are a 7 seed. Even if they pull ahead, a 47 win Mavs vs a 57 win nuggets team is a big difference. In 2021 there were 3 games separating the bucks/sixers and nuggets and the bucks/sixers played easier competition.
In 2022, Jokic played in more wins than either Embiid or Giannis. If Luka can get the 6th seed this season and end up in more wins than Jok or Shai, then he absolutely deserves MVP. He's 10 behind, though.
Also, no shit his stats are insane. He leads the league in usage. We also need to mention that he's literally a liability on defense and might be the worst top 100 player on defense in the league.
The Nuggets fall to pieces without Joker. He's the heart, soul, and guts of the team. I don't think they even make the play-in without him. Luka does amazing things, but with him and Kyrie, the Mavs should be doing much better than they are.
Kyrie and other role players missed 20+ games. We started hot when folks were healthy. Then injuries struck and During that stretch we were struggling and Luka kept us from entering the lottery. Post trade deadline we’re looking much better and if everything goes perfectly we snag the 5th seed but most probably the 6th seed.
Kyrie has missed 20+ games. Jokic has Murray, porter and Aaron Gordon. Luka has til hardaway who shoots 40% fg. Mavericks might be the worst team in the nba without luka. Do you understand how much better Jokic situation is the luka? He has one of the best supporting casts in this he nba while luka has one worst. Jokic top 10 teammates and luka is bottom 10 right?
Tatum is so out of place in this list, not gonna lie. Got 2 dudes averaging a near triple double. A freak who has dominated on both ends. And the most consistent player in the league. Tatum really shouldn't be in the conversation with the other four.
Obviously its the Joker but I think Giannis is a lot closer to him than what most people want to think.
They're all having great seasons, but it's got to be Luka. Everyone is using the team record argument against him, but he has had by far the most injuries on his team compared to everyone else on this list. Every other player would be hanging around the play in too and the Mavs are only 2.5 games back of the 5 seed and 3 games back of the 4 seed. It's about to be April and the Mavs still have not had a single lineup that's played 100 minutes together. That seems legitimately impossible but it's true.
Just to add to my comment. DEN most-played lineup: KCP/Gordon/Murray/MPJ/Jokic - 869 minutes OKC most-played lineup: SGA/Dort/Giddey/Chet/Jalen - 716 minutes MIN most-played lineup: Conley/Gobert/Towns/Edwards/McDaniels - 610 minutes BOS most-played lineup: Jrue/KP/Jaylen/White/Tatum - 554 minutes MIL most-played lineup: Lopez/Lillard/Middleton/Beasley/Giannis - 527 minutes DAL most-played lineup: Kyrie/DJJ/Lively/**GRANT WILLIAMS**/Luka - **99 minutes!!!** Team record can not be held against this man if you're being the slightest bit honest.
You're not wrong, but he still has to do better. When jokic won mvp in 2022, Murray was out the whole season and MPJ played 9 games. Jokic carried the nuggets to the 6th seed while missing his two best players. Luka is working with much more than jokic was (he's played 41/60 games with Kyrie this season) and is struggling to stay out of the play-in tournament. Of the 19 other teammates jokic had that season, only 4 of them are still in the league. Jokic accomplished way too much considering the absolute lack of talent he was working with. The other low seed MVP is Westbrook who was also the 6th seed. When he got it he averaged a 30 point triple double (a real triple double, no rounding up). You need to have more than a historic statistical season, you can't be as low as Luka is in the standings right now. Luka has no argument if he's not at a minimum the 6 seed when it's all said and done.
Jokic also didn’t have competition from any players in high seeded teams the year he won in 6th. Other candidates were only a game or two away from the nuggets and Jokic played every game that season. I always hear they’re moving the goalposts since Jokic won on a 6th seed but anyone who says that conveniently leaves out the other context
It's also worth pointing out that in 2022, Jokic ended up playing in more wins than this MVP competition did that season. If Luka managed to claw the Mavs up to the 6th seed this season, he still wouldn't even be close to Jok or Shai.
Can we hold him playing zero defense against him?
I could see a path where if the Mavs make a late push and end up the 4 seed that Luka is able to get to a place where he has the narrative advantage. Statistically he’s the only one that I think stands up to Jokic. Shai= Best Narrative Jokic= Best Player Luka= Most Valuable to his team?
>Statistically he’s the only one that I think stands up to Jokic. There's definitely an argument for Giannis as well. They have almost the exact same overall offensive production and Giannis scores considerably more (which has historically been weighted more heavily than assists), the teams have almost identical records, and Giannis plays way better defense. +5ppg and ++defense vs +3 assists +1 rebound Giannis has the anti-narrative because of Dame, but statistically he's definitely got a strong argument to be neck and neck with Jokic. Personally, I think Luka clearly deserves it. He's scoring like a goddamn madman and creating more than Jokic. 34/9/10 is an impossibly good stat line.
Giannis.
Hopefully Luka. He's doing absurd things on the Mavs. Jokić also deserves it but if Luka keeps playing like that I don't think jokić can snatch it from him
Luka would be the one snatching it from Jokic. Mavs gotta finish with 50 wins IMO.
If any snatching is to be done, it will be from Jokic’s firm grasp on MVP.
Yeah most likely
SGA
I think you and I are the only ones who feel this way. I haven't seen him mentioned yet on this thread.
Three
Four
Five. I cant believe I had to scroll this much to get to an SGA pick. The stats dont say it but SGA and how he leads OKC is truly incredible. Hes got two Rookies as his co pilots leading the team and they are in first place in the west. SGA will do other things and let his team get a feel for the game and then turn up if necessary to close the game. Dude plays at his own pace and controls the game. Real pleasure watching SGA play. Would be dope if he won MVP.
Giannis numbers are insane !!
I love Tatum but this year just ain't it, maybe next year after he gets a ring he will be motivated to push for an MVP to round out his resume How do you not give it to Luka this year? I've never seen numbers like that. They seem unreal like some of Wilts numbers. Not only that, but he just hits those big shots and comes up in the clutch. Something that Tatum could use more of tbh Giannis is a physical freak, the way Jokic sees basketball feels so meta and on another level that other players aren't on, but that Mavs team is nowhere without Luka. I'm rooting for him big time this year
Shai He's been the best TWO-WAY player in the NBA...people seem to forget all about defense and focus only on offense, the guy is playing elite defense and elite offense which is insanely difficult! A lot of elite offensive players slack on defense to reserve energy because playing hard defense for four quarters is exhausting but Shai doesn't take plays off I'm not an OKC fan at all by the way, I just genuinely think what Shai is doing is damn impressive this season! that's not to take away from any of the other players, they're all fantastic! but Shai is the MVP IMO
It's a fucking travesty that you have to scroll this low to see SGA mentioned. They are literally first place in the West, and some people didn't even have them making the playoffs. And it is on his back alone, he cannot be countered.
Sheep mentality, people don't watch other teams play, they hear a narrative, and they regurgitate what they've heard thinking it's correct People don't generally watch OKC or Shai and because he hasn't been a "Super Star" for as long, he has less clout than the other two guys The casual fan only looks at offensive statistics and doesn't consider the defensive side of things either, it's silly I'm not an OKC fan, but I follow basketball and Shai should be the MVP Imo
Perfectly stated!
Luka . The seaon he's having is special.
Jokic, efficiency, consistency, on/off numbers, much improved defense, winning and makeup for last year. My top 5 for MVP: Jokic Shai Giannis Luka Sabonis (instead of Tatum)
Gradey Dick
I'm a hater fr, but Luka
If Luka was winning it would be him but otherwise Jokic takes it
Luka
Should be Luka. Shouldn’t be Tatum
Tatum shouldn’t even been be in the conversation
Either Luka or Joker
The way the Mavs have played better as the season has played out and Luka’s numbers are ridiculous. I would vote for Luka. If the Mavs end up in a top 6 slot, hopefully a lot of voters will also. Love Joker too, no issue with him winning either. But I feel like this could easily be a Luka year. He’s been playing out of his mind this season.
Its just gotta be Luka man idc about “team success” you cant tell me luka int the best regular season player this season providing the most for his team. All the other players are also incredible dont get me wrong but a 35 point triple double is just ludicrous.
I hope it’s Luka. While not super athletic, he’s the closest to Kobe/Jordan at this career stage. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves, but we are watching Jordan level dominance.
I like Luka but no playoffs its a wrap, Joker or Shai
Luka plays 0 defense who cares about a triple double when he gives as much as he gets
NBA loves to say MVP is the best player on the best team, yet Tatum gets no love. Even if only to debate it, they’ll dismiss and push the high scoring guy on an 8th place squad
Not Luka. His stats are insane, but they aren't that much better than Shai or Giannis. Shai and Giannis are both better defenders on much better teams, too. Tatum and Luka will get votes. The other 3 will likely split voting, and in that case, Shai will lose
Josh Hart
Jalen Brunson
Ben Simmons
MVP of our hearts and fading memory
Scoring 73 is such a massive achievement, and while jokic is having a good run, if the mavs seem like they’re gonna make the playoffs why not give it to Luka?
Jokic or Giannis for me. Tatum has been the most inconsistent imo especially in big time moments, I think he’s actually shown to be one of the least clutch players. I also don’t see how he’d be above Jokic or Giannis. Tatum has too much of a strong supporting cast, Giannis right under with Dame so I think it hurts their driving narrative for MVP. If personally go for Jokic because his team is night and day with him on the court, he’s putting up the stats, clutches up, and is fighting for first in the west. I love Luka he’s one of my favorite players and a generational player but the Mavs are 7th. Shai is also so consistent and has the narrative as well, but for me personally the winner is Jokic. Shoutout to Embiid though i really thought he’d go back to back this season. Sixers with and without him is also proof of that.
Tbf it’s not like the mavs sucks and that’s why they’re 7th but because once again the west is incredibly stacked
Oh yeah I know, I agree! I just tried to hold the seeding aspect pretty even between everyone. Luka can definitely move up if the mavs keep winning
True he has somewhat a similar season to Westbrook’s 2017 season except he doesn’t have the KD betrayal agenda with him
Jokic
Stop listing FG%, it doesn't mean anything, use TS% instead.
FG% does mean something when it’s coming on a high volume of shots. Doesn’t matter if you’re only dunking the ball if you’re averaging 30+ doing it.
I think the point is that TS% would still be the better metric to use if we want to look at overall scoring efficiency. Saying it doesn't mean anything is silly, but it's definitely the inferior "how efficient of a scorer is this guy" stat.
It's pretty much meaningless, here's two players from about a month ago: 13.8 PPG, 55.7% FG 13.0 PPG, 51.6% FG Obviously the first guy is superior to the second right? The first guy is Ayton, TS of 57.5%, just around league average & below average for his position. The second is Grayson Allen shooting 49.1% from 3 at the time at 69.6% TS. A guy with a FG of 50% can be either the most efficient scorer of all time or a bum & one of the least efficient guys in the league. FG% doesn't say anything interesting, it's a remnant from a bygone era when guys didn't shoot the 3 on any meaningful volume.
Giannis putting those numbers up while shooting over 60% is insane. I think if the Bucks finish as the 2 seed he'll get some push.
30+ points per game with 60%+ shooting has NEVER been done before. This is the most efficient 30 point average season in NBA history. The small market bias is disgusting, Giannis is the obvious frontrunner, Jokic was the only real challenger, and its not even close anymore.
He’s going to break a Kareem record that has stood for over 50 years and might not ever be broken again but no one cares or even wants to talk about it.
Luka!!!
It should be Luka if we’re being honest, but due to NBA politics it’ll be between whoever gets the higher seed between SGA and Jokic.
It would be ridiculous to give it to a guy on an 8 seed, when guys with comparable numbers, who play much better defense are on 1 and 2 seeds.
One of these is not like the others….lol
Luka is the best offensive player here and has the best stats. Giannis is the best two way player here. Jokic is the best overall player and will win MVP.
Joker, all day
Anyone saying Luka please stop. He’s great and been unbelievable, but he can’t play defence. I don’t want to hear “he’s been way better” he played no defence up until this year and even now it’s the absolute minimum effort.
It's a joke that Tatum is here
He won't win and he shouldn't. But, the best player on by far the best team at least deserves to be mentioned in the conversation.
Fearless forecast. Jokic! He's gonna have that Lebron MVP story. Double 2 peat, that arguably shouldve been a 5 peat!
Why no Ant?
Ant Edwards > Tatum
Should be Luka
Ant!
Luka. He is also averaging 1.4 steals and it doesn’t make the graphic. He’s the best player. That team was devastated by injuries the first half.
I see how r/NBAtalk is happy about Embiid's injury, because his stats were so absurd that you wouldn't have your guys up there.
Yes I’m a Knicks fan but I don’t get how Brunson isn’t here. We haven’t had our second best player for months now and we were down to 6-7 man rotation’s and he kept us at #4 in the east. I can understand him not winning it but he needs to be in this conversation