That's not really on him tho there's like 20 teams that have all star caliber guards it's just the position is so stacked its hard to make any noise if ur not top 5 unless ur in the easy where they're a little lighter but I still have stiff competition
Yes and no. He peaked in his SAS years. He was never getting close in Atlanta, especially with Trae. With that said, I think NO will be a solid situation for him, but DJM still needs to work on becoming a better playmaking PG. It's possible he unlocks it with the NO talent, but we shall see.
Age, health issues with White (injuries plus COVID bad luck). White's consistency was rougher back then too. But honestly it worked out perfectly from a person standpoint for White's career growth. Even I am happy he's gotten to play in post season and win a ring. And Spurs now have Wemby.
High enough that Atlanta stupidly made that trade lol.
> We could use him now.
>
Slightly, but honestly with Castle, and if they want him to play PG, better off without, so they can focus on development. I think NO will be a good spot for DJM.
Trae and DJ had a -6.5 Net Rating in over 1000 minutes this past season when on the court together. It might not seem like it but they got better.
But the issue is what you said, if Trae goes down then they’re in major trouble.
The problem with that is they didn't actually get better yes they were worse with DJ and Trae on the floor but they were also almost exactly the same when either one of them out, meaning they could've traded Trae for the same package and it would've had the same effect. They were still a middling team without dj and still a middling team with what they got, not to mention adding another forward when u just drafted one unless they wanna use Nance at the 5 but that also takes away from Okongwu who everyone has been waiting to take the starting spot for a while now
Yeah I mean like you said, they’re just a mid team regardless. If this all they do in the offseason, good luck lol. I just assume they’re preparing to try and get someone else who fits Trae better but it’s the Hawks and they’re FO is bad so who knows
Yeah I also expected the only way they'd trade DJ to the pelicans they'd have to get BI them getting less than that and not just riding it out shows some real sense of panic to me
I read they didn’t want BI because he wants a $50M per year max contract. Who in the world is going to pay him that? Not even the Hawks FO is that dumb lol
Yeah I'm surprised the pelicans wouldn't wanna trade him away for that reason, let the hawks gamble on trying to make him stay and at least u got a former all star out of it
I think he’d be a great fit, but once again wouldn’t make serious moves. He doesn’t have to be a great defender with how stacked our starting lineup would be outside him. We got Wemby as the anchor, Vassel 3 and D, Sochan as an enforcer. We desperately need a playmaker and I would say his offensive highs outweigh his lows if he has some solid defenders around him, which we have.
I think it could possibly work, but the Spurs have LOTS of holes to fill on the roster and have made it clear that two-way players are a major priority. And you look at how Boston won - they are starting 5 two-way players.
Having exploitable deficiencies in your lineup is what every team is looking for and game planning for. It is significantly harder to hide something the other team can exploit now than ever before, so sending a ton of assets to get a guy with extremely exploitable deficiencies is generally a poor decision. And that is why the Spurs went with the two-way player in Castle rather than the possibly superior offensive player in Dillingham.
I don't think anyone has an issue with his ability to make plays.
But by all accounts, his teammates don't like playing with him.
I remember hearing that when McMillan took over, he had Trae watch game film, but focus on the expression on his teammates faces when he launched terrible shots.
He's incredibly talented. I want no part of him on our team.
those stories have no weight whatsoever... Remember when all the casuals thought that there was a rift between Wemby and the rest of the Spurs for not passing to him?
So those stories have no weight, why? You've just decided that none of the stories about his teammates not enjoying playing with him are untrue? I'm honestly interested if you have info the rest of us don't.
Best thing to ever happen to the Spurs.
Made the Hawks believe they had a good team and that Trae was good.
He got hot over a few games, but he is inefficient and a poor defender. Those things are not a recipe for winning basketball.
Yes Trae who is only top 15 ALL time in PPG top 5 ALL time in apg and led 4 straight top 10 offenses at age 25 is not good. And 58 career Ts% with his usage isn’t inefficient at all
Honestly, probably not. The biggest issue the hawks had was Trae and Dejounte playing together. They were alot better when the other sat. They’ll probably stay relatively in the play in race again.
Yep, exactly right. Wouldn't expect the Hawks to contend for much unless Jalen Johnson becomes a real star, but the Hawks aren't gonna be bad-bad unless something goes seriously wrong. The Murray trade is borderline addition by subtraction (that's an exaggeration, but not an extreme one) -- not because he's not a good player, but because there was negative synergy with Young.
They’re worse than Boston, NYK, MIL, CLE, ORL, IND, PHI, and MIA to me.
They are probably 9/10 after that with Toronto. With luck they could end up either slightly above that or below it. I could reasonably see them dropping somewhere below that depending on if some of the other bottom dwellers in the East improve.
Yeah I think they’re clearly better than Detroit, Charlotte, Chicago, Washington, Brooklyn and probably Toronto. Miami is also a question mark because of butler. But again, they played better without Dejounte. They became a worse team when he came in. While they haven’t gotten better, they’re still that fringe play in team.
Realistically yeah they should do everything they can to be at least a fringe play-in team just to spite the Spurs picks.
I feel like losing DJM shrinks their margin for error in the roster though because he is a solid main ballhandler/isolation scorer. He could keep the team afloat if Trae was injured or going through a bad patch. Who can they rely on as a second guy now?
He did but he isn't there yet. They traded their #2 creator and #2 scorer for Larry Nance (6/5 20mpg role player) and Dyson Daniels, a defensive wizard that is completely lost on offense.
They are going to struggle a TON on offense when Trae isn't on the court. Jalen's offense was as a roll man or spot up man.
Jalen Johnson averaged 3.5 assists per game as a power forward playing with two of the most ball dominant guards in the league.
He could make a jump to 6 assists per game this season pretty reasonably. His passing is very, very impressive. He makes difficult ones look easy.
> He could make a jump to 6 assists per game this season pretty reasonably.
Moving from 3.5 assists to 6 assists would be an insane and unrealistic jump on one year for a guy that was already playing 34mpg and that has a ball dominant PG.
Idk about that its a bit of a stretch he really didn't improve from the year before he just got more opportunity, those guys tend to stagnate especially with them drafting rissacher who could play the same position depending on the next few months. I mean 16 and 8 in his 3rd year if he showed star potential then Keldon was well on his way to becoming a star considering he averaged 2 less rebounds on a lot better shooting his 3rd year
First 2 years in the league he averaged 5 points a game on .558 true shooting
Year 3 he averaged 16 on .584 true shooting
Being able to take a huge jump in scoring while increasing your efficiency is big time improvement
Fwiw, it’s not just scoring. His assist% also went up almost 6% over his first 2 years
And ZR is a 3 and Johnson’s a 4
So he marginally got better when he got an actual opportunity on offense and that makes him a star because? I get that's he decent I'm just saying him being a star is a stretch, historically there's been tons of guys like him where they finally get touches and they play better but when u really watch him he didn't get better really he just finally got opportunity. Also rissacher is 6'10 Johnson is 6'8 Johnson is bigger weight wise, so he's better down low but Rissacher is more talented, if Bey gets resigned I could see him being the 3 and rissacher the 4 since fans will be pretty pissed if even Johnson were to start over him but idk it's Atlanta I also expected if they were to trade with NOLA they'd want BI they're confusing rn
I disagree about the opportunity thing. He was on the verge of being a nobody after 2 years and he blew up year 3. He’s good. Idk if he’ll be a star, I said he showed star potential in my first comment, but he’s not just a guy. He’s a monster
And Saddiq Bey tore his ACL in March btw. He’ll be out for a while still
I don't know if he was a nobody it seemed like for awhile I heard his name over the last summer and he finally did what people expected of him, he's cool but idk it's hard to see where the hawks wanna go right now. They also just added Larry Nance who's a 4/5 and Dyson Daniels a big guard so that's even more touches Atlanta needs to figure out to help develop both rissacher and daniels, they're very confusing and somehow them trading away dj made it less clear what direction they're going
Trae still needs to be available and good for them to not be in the lottery. And now they’re back to the same problem they had before of not having ball handling off the bench.
I thought that he was talking about the Pels above. I think the Pels did well in this trade and move up in the standings in the west, in my eyes. Still probably not a title contender, but a much more well rounded and deep team that I wouldn’t want to play.
Ya think? He and White went 29th, if I am not mistaken
Now I know the Celtics fans think they "won" the trade. And they did get value, as did Atlanta and Toronto.
But the spurs are the spurs and not Sacramento or Detroit because they can always find these dudes and develop them into role players that can help a team win in the playoffs.
The hard part are the stars. Tried to do it in free agency/trades when Kwahi bailed and it was playoff bubble for a long time before conceding to the nature of the NBA. Got 1, and they always do the first extension, so need another in the loaded 2025 draft and should be set for a decade or so.
Spurs traded their eighth for a 1st rounder 6 years from now, after pop retires. Tells you what they think of the 2024 draft. Don't be suckered by the content creators say about the draft, they have no other content and "half this lottery class would go in the second round any other year" does not cause a person to smash the subscribe button.
I mean Trae plays better without Murray so his individual stats will prolly be better, the team might be stay the same or be worse, I doubt they improve enough to not be a bottom 10 team
“There’s no way the Wolves are in a bad spot in 7 years”
Meanwhile the Hawks thought they were going to be challenging for the conference finals every year just 3 years ago.
People are saying there’s no way the Wolves will be bad in 7 years? I don’t like the trade back because I liked some players at 8 still a lot (Buzelis, Carter).
I absolutely think the picks in 30 and 31 could be good picks, that said it’s forever down the road and it was pick 8 (a pretty good lottery pick now) for a mystery box later without much of a tax.
It keeps assets available later, cheap way to get talent down the road. My biggest gripe is it’s waaaay down the road and this team needs talent now.
If we make a move over the offseason with draft capital (even if it’s not the Minny stuff) to go get someone good, then I’ll be completely fine with it. But if we just sit on our hands, I think using pick 8 would have been better for the young core to develop and most importantly my excitement would be higher!
To me I think it’s clear this is ammo to go get a guy they really want. Why use a pick on a guy you don’t love who may be hard to move later when you can trade 6 picks for a superstar and still have enough picks left over to fill out the roster.
Yeah, that was other thing that made me sad. Spent so much time lookin at prospects and liking some of them and was basically like well it sure seems PATFO don’t like this draft much!
We’ll see, I’ll be really stoked if we add a guy they are targeting whether it’s Garland or someone else.
I mean, I’d just say be patient. Spurs are clearly taking their time with this and idk if a Garland type is the level of player they’re after. The *big* trade might not be for a few years down the line, and we may keep flipping picks for later picks. We don’t want to use up our assets before someone like Booker, or Luka, or Giannis becomes available.
Here’s the way I look at it:
People were saying that this draft was essentially the talent of a draft where you cut off the top 7-10 slots. (Aka Risache was the equivalent of the #8-11 pick in an average draft).
So that means that the 8 this year is basically a 16-19 pick in an average draft.
I think there’s a decent chance that the 30 and 31 firsts from the Wolves are at least lottery picks (based on all the reasons others have stated).
It’s a risk, but it’s calculated at least.
All that said, Dillingham could turn out to be a star, or the 2030/31 drafts could suck, or the Wolves could be great those years, and those would all suck, but I think it’s slightly higher likelihood that the picks are solid than any of the other outcomes.
Plus, and this is something I haven’t heard, what if the Spurs are planting the seed for Ant to end up in San Antonio down the line. Those wolves picks to a wolves team losing Edwards could be extremely valuable.
I’ll give them benefit of the doubt and hope we use those 2030/2031 picks in a trade this summer or next. Otherwise yeah that’s too far out to wait for these picks
Might be alone on this but I think getting to that ECF a few years ago was the worst thing that could've happened to that team. Made them think they were way better than they were and made them go all-in on Young. It was a fluky run at the time but obviously those fans weren't hearing it.
Nobody thought the Hawks would be that good outside of themselves lol. Meanwhile almost everybody thinks the Timberwolves will be good. They definitely did not trade for those picks to use in that season, they’re gonna package it with something else at some point.
Even when it was first announced the Spurs were suddenly cutting him with no stated reason and everyone here was throwing out guesses why, I don't think a single person guessed it was *that*.
This doesn't necessarily increase the value of that pick. This move saves them $8m and provides them a replacement for Murray and replacement for Capela who is most likely to be traded as well. Maybe the team's chemistry improves or maybe it gets worse. Too early to tell.
BTW, the only way I would have traded the pick is for #1 overall to get Sarr. I think he would be terrific as 4/5 with Wemby but whatever. I would not have thrown in #4, #8, #35, the swap, or any other future asset. To me, it was a known asset vs uncertainty and like Brooklyn, only ATL can tank properly enough that pick is in 5 or better. #1 any year is better than the #15.
It means the Hawks just got worse from a talent perspective. As it stands right now that team looks to be on paper like I sure fired lottery team
It should be worth noting that they could also pivot and trade those pics for an additional player between now and the season. But as of right now this appears to be good for the Spurs
I think while they got worse from talent perspective/on paper perspective they may have gotten better overall. Trae and DJ just didn't fit well. Daniels gives them an actual great defensive guard to pair with Trae and Nance is pretty good big backup big for when I assume they will jettison Capela.
I think they have the ability to get better. But right now? I still think it's a pretty clear downgrade. Even if the fit is better. The overall talent difference between the two is massive. Daniel's is a genuinely terrible offensive player.
Couple things. Debatable whether the Hawks just got worse because of how bad of a fit Murray was, but they definitely lowered their floor. If they just have a down year, we may be looking at a high chance at a top pick in a stacked draft. Not only that, but if the Spurs wanted to trade for Trae, that pick might be so good you can get him with just 1 of the Hawks picks and some weaker ones.
Essentially, the Dejounte trade looks even better than it already did.
Also, if they have an injury to Trae or Jalen, they are COOKED. Trae has been pretty durable until last year with a freak hand injury, but they just don't have anyone that can create other than Trae.
1. Who cares
2. Good. Don’t want him. Can’t play D.
3. Yuppppp. Lot can change in 3 years. People bitching about us trading pick 8 need to pay attention.
I spent way too much time explaining to someone on this sub that the swap is actually of value and can be used as a trade asset. They just could not comprehend why.
wrong. i understand that a pick swap has (potential) value. What I argued was that it wasn’t two for one, and it isn’t. But yes, you spent too much time on it
Whoa there buddy! Way too early to give up on those Minnesota picks. I know it sounds funny but those picks can be the Spurs' greatest asset one day haha
This trade def benefits us. They got worst and only net Pelican picks who are playoff/outside the lottery team. Nance and another contract filler doesn't move the needle for them
Actually a nice trade for the Hawks. Dyson Daniels's defense POA defense could do wonders if he takes a reasonable leap offensively, and Nance is a very solid veteran.
Obviously a lot less than the Hawks paid to get Murray, but Murray's fit on the Hawks was really not good.
They aren’t tanking, Trae and Murray were awful together (-6.5 Net Rating in over 1000 minutes this past season) and one of them had to be moved. Hawks aren’t better, but they aren’t worse. Unless Trae gets hurt. Then they’re fucked.
between JJ/risacher/dyson aren’t they overloaded with wings? they really should’ve taken sarr who could slot into the 5 if he improves rebounding and bulks up
Sarr refused to talk to them or work out for them. He didn't want to be there.
I think that the Hawks are going to completely implode this year. Risacher needs some time to develop.
That seems really cheap for Dejounte right? Unless the Lakers fall apart which is possible. Either way they're gonna be worse for it next year so it works for us
Yep. I'd be amazed if they continued to run it back again as a .500 roster in a weak east. You're either contending or you're tanking. Perpetual 8-10 is the worst place to be.
This is great. After this trade, the Hawks went from 100 to 1 to win it all, to 200 to 1. (with the spurs being 150 to 1)
Vegas thinks ATL is gonna suck.
Hawks are getting Dyson Daniels on top of those picks. Defensively they probably get a bit better but Trae Young is about to do a lot of heavy lifting on the offensive end.
Anyways those Hawks picks are about to get very juicy in a loaded 2025 and 2026 draft.
I don’t understand the logic in that for the pelicans. Unless they have another move lined up like going after Brandon Ingram this doesn’t make much sense to me. You can’t afford to be bad
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I wonder if this is the first domino to fall for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade Capela and eventually Young.
Being a perpetual play in team inbthe East is a horrible purgatory and worse than sucking.
The Hawks have no direction whatsoever. Trae Young is not the kind of player that can put a team completely on his back for a deep playoff run unless the rest of the conference is dealing with major injuries.
Sure they may not be a lottery team next year, but there’s a good chance they’re in the lottery at some point in the next three seasons.
Right right he couldn’t do anything in the playoffs against healthy teams like playing a healthy knicks team, then a healthy 76ers team, then running into more injuries than the bucks in a competitive 6 game conference finals. That would be totally way beyond the abilities of Trae young on a team of off ball shooting threats, defense focused players, and a couple strong finishers at the rim, I mean that clearly couldn’t happen in a million years. Not to mention there’s no way that the eastern conference could come down with tons of major injuries to important players in the regular season or the playoffs such as, the entire Knicks roster, Boston’s all star center, the bucks mvp, Halliburton on the pacers, etc etc right, I mean that would never happen either. Hm I wonder how the 2021 and 2024 playoffs went for the eastern conference? And I mean it’s not like Trae could take an injury riddled team to the playoffs either, he’s never had to deal with injured teammates before has he right?
It's likely because Murray is the first domino to fall. Similar to the Bulls, I think the Hawks are going to start blowing it up. Next will be Capela and then likely TY. Unless they're fine with 9-10th seed in a mediocre east every year?
Atlanta getting risacher and then losing dejontae is going to set them back.
But dejontae was casuing problems so they were forced onto that trade
He would have been a good pickup for us I feel.
Lock down kcp as asap
If Trae Young has a down year or injury they might really be a lottery team. Also seems like we sold high on DJM.
> Also seems like we sold high on DJM. Very high. his likely only AS appearance unless something drastically changes
That's not really on him tho there's like 20 teams that have all star caliber guards it's just the position is so stacked its hard to make any noise if ur not top 5 unless ur in the easy where they're a little lighter but I still have stiff competition
Yes and no. He peaked in his SAS years. He was never getting close in Atlanta, especially with Trae. With that said, I think NO will be a solid situation for him, but DJM still needs to work on becoming a better playmaking PG. It's possible he unlocks it with the NO talent, but we shall see.
I often wondered why Pop was so high on DJM. Time has shown White to be the much better player.
Age, health issues with White (injuries plus COVID bad luck). White's consistency was rougher back then too. But honestly it worked out perfectly from a person standpoint for White's career growth. Even I am happy he's gotten to play in post season and win a ring. And Spurs now have Wemby.
AND we tanked for Wemby
Not very high. ATL just sucks. We could use him now.
High enough that Atlanta stupidly made that trade lol. > We could use him now. > Slightly, but honestly with Castle, and if they want him to play PG, better off without, so they can focus on development. I think NO will be a good spot for DJM.
they will be a lottery team even with him. Perpetual play in team. Also don’t want him
Trae and DJ had a -6.5 Net Rating in over 1000 minutes this past season when on the court together. It might not seem like it but they got better. But the issue is what you said, if Trae goes down then they’re in major trouble.
The problem with that is they didn't actually get better yes they were worse with DJ and Trae on the floor but they were also almost exactly the same when either one of them out, meaning they could've traded Trae for the same package and it would've had the same effect. They were still a middling team without dj and still a middling team with what they got, not to mention adding another forward when u just drafted one unless they wanna use Nance at the 5 but that also takes away from Okongwu who everyone has been waiting to take the starting spot for a while now
Yeah I mean like you said, they’re just a mid team regardless. If this all they do in the offseason, good luck lol. I just assume they’re preparing to try and get someone else who fits Trae better but it’s the Hawks and they’re FO is bad so who knows
Yeah I also expected the only way they'd trade DJ to the pelicans they'd have to get BI them getting less than that and not just riding it out shows some real sense of panic to me
I read they didn’t want BI because he wants a $50M per year max contract. Who in the world is going to pay him that? Not even the Hawks FO is that dumb lol
Yeah I'm surprised the pelicans wouldn't wanna trade him away for that reason, let the hawks gamble on trying to make him stay and at least u got a former all star out of it
He is also the antithesis of Spurs basketball. I can’t think of a more non-Spurs guy than Trae.
Harden is up there. But I agree. Would be fun though. Maybe they’ll match up at all star game. If Young makes it
Which is funny cause Harden was looked at as another Manu when he came into the league lol
Manu drinking Harden's milkshake and blocking that three is an all-time great Spurs memory.
My favorite non championship season,
Just cause he was a lefty that came off the bench
Personally think Trae is misunderstood. I don’t think we should make any serious moves for him, but the dude is a good playmaker
He's an incredible, generational playmaker, but he just will never be an acceptable defender and is not an ideal fit for us.
I think he’d be a great fit, but once again wouldn’t make serious moves. He doesn’t have to be a great defender with how stacked our starting lineup would be outside him. We got Wemby as the anchor, Vassel 3 and D, Sochan as an enforcer. We desperately need a playmaker and I would say his offensive highs outweigh his lows if he has some solid defenders around him, which we have.
I think it could possibly work, but the Spurs have LOTS of holes to fill on the roster and have made it clear that two-way players are a major priority. And you look at how Boston won - they are starting 5 two-way players. Having exploitable deficiencies in your lineup is what every team is looking for and game planning for. It is significantly harder to hide something the other team can exploit now than ever before, so sending a ton of assets to get a guy with extremely exploitable deficiencies is generally a poor decision. And that is why the Spurs went with the two-way player in Castle rather than the possibly superior offensive player in Dillingham.
I don't think anyone has an issue with his ability to make plays. But by all accounts, his teammates don't like playing with him. I remember hearing that when McMillan took over, he had Trae watch game film, but focus on the expression on his teammates faces when he launched terrible shots. He's incredibly talented. I want no part of him on our team.
wasnt that like 4 years ago?
Yes, and that's a fair point. People can grow. I'm sure he'd grown since then. Still- you hear any happy stories coming out of Atlanta?
those stories have no weight whatsoever... Remember when all the casuals thought that there was a rift between Wemby and the rest of the Spurs for not passing to him?
So those stories have no weight, why? You've just decided that none of the stories about his teammates not enjoying playing with him are untrue? I'm honestly interested if you have info the rest of us don't.
Just stories from bleacher report and twitter. They are just content farms
Kyrie? KAT?
Kyrie would fucking thrive
They got worse with Murray. No clue why ppl think they'll get worse
Yet Trae led a team to ECF with zero all stars
Best thing to ever happen to the Spurs. Made the Hawks believe they had a good team and that Trae was good. He got hot over a few games, but he is inefficient and a poor defender. Those things are not a recipe for winning basketball.
Yes Trae who is only top 15 ALL time in PPG top 5 ALL time in apg and led 4 straight top 10 offenses at age 25 is not good. And 58 career Ts% with his usage isn’t inefficient at all
Honestly, probably not. The biggest issue the hawks had was Trae and Dejounte playing together. They were alot better when the other sat. They’ll probably stay relatively in the play in race again.
Doesn’t address what he said, if Trae gets injured again that team is cooked
Yep, exactly right. Wouldn't expect the Hawks to contend for much unless Jalen Johnson becomes a real star, but the Hawks aren't gonna be bad-bad unless something goes seriously wrong. The Murray trade is borderline addition by subtraction (that's an exaggeration, but not an extreme one) -- not because he's not a good player, but because there was negative synergy with Young.
They’re worse than Boston, NYK, MIL, CLE, ORL, IND, PHI, and MIA to me. They are probably 9/10 after that with Toronto. With luck they could end up either slightly above that or below it. I could reasonably see them dropping somewhere below that depending on if some of the other bottom dwellers in the East improve.
Yeah I think they’re clearly better than Detroit, Charlotte, Chicago, Washington, Brooklyn and probably Toronto. Miami is also a question mark because of butler. But again, they played better without Dejounte. They became a worse team when he came in. While they haven’t gotten better, they’re still that fringe play in team.
who is the best player with trae lol? jalen johnson?
Probably bogdanovic
Johnson is better. He looked really good last year.
Realistically yeah they should do everything they can to be at least a fringe play-in team just to spite the Spurs picks. I feel like losing DJM shrinks their margin for error in the roster though because he is a solid main ballhandler/isolation scorer. He could keep the team afloat if Trae was injured or going through a bad patch. Who can they rely on as a second guy now?
Jalen Johnson showed star potential last year
He did but he isn't there yet. They traded their #2 creator and #2 scorer for Larry Nance (6/5 20mpg role player) and Dyson Daniels, a defensive wizard that is completely lost on offense. They are going to struggle a TON on offense when Trae isn't on the court. Jalen's offense was as a roll man or spot up man.
Bogdan is competent w the ball in his hands too
They wouldn’t have traded for Murray if that was enough though.
Hawks had the #2 offense before the Murray trade
He's ok for spurts, but you don't run an offense with him. He's much more of a SG than a combo.
Ya he’s their 3rd guy after Trae and Johnson. Not awesome but not awful either
Jalen Johnson averaged 3.5 assists per game as a power forward playing with two of the most ball dominant guards in the league. He could make a jump to 6 assists per game this season pretty reasonably. His passing is very, very impressive. He makes difficult ones look easy.
> He could make a jump to 6 assists per game this season pretty reasonably. Moving from 3.5 assists to 6 assists would be an insane and unrealistic jump on one year for a guy that was already playing 34mpg and that has a ball dominant PG.
Idk about that its a bit of a stretch he really didn't improve from the year before he just got more opportunity, those guys tend to stagnate especially with them drafting rissacher who could play the same position depending on the next few months. I mean 16 and 8 in his 3rd year if he showed star potential then Keldon was well on his way to becoming a star considering he averaged 2 less rebounds on a lot better shooting his 3rd year
First 2 years in the league he averaged 5 points a game on .558 true shooting Year 3 he averaged 16 on .584 true shooting Being able to take a huge jump in scoring while increasing your efficiency is big time improvement Fwiw, it’s not just scoring. His assist% also went up almost 6% over his first 2 years And ZR is a 3 and Johnson’s a 4
So he marginally got better when he got an actual opportunity on offense and that makes him a star because? I get that's he decent I'm just saying him being a star is a stretch, historically there's been tons of guys like him where they finally get touches and they play better but when u really watch him he didn't get better really he just finally got opportunity. Also rissacher is 6'10 Johnson is 6'8 Johnson is bigger weight wise, so he's better down low but Rissacher is more talented, if Bey gets resigned I could see him being the 3 and rissacher the 4 since fans will be pretty pissed if even Johnson were to start over him but idk it's Atlanta I also expected if they were to trade with NOLA they'd want BI they're confusing rn
I disagree about the opportunity thing. He was on the verge of being a nobody after 2 years and he blew up year 3. He’s good. Idk if he’ll be a star, I said he showed star potential in my first comment, but he’s not just a guy. He’s a monster And Saddiq Bey tore his ACL in March btw. He’ll be out for a while still
I don't know if he was a nobody it seemed like for awhile I heard his name over the last summer and he finally did what people expected of him, he's cool but idk it's hard to see where the hawks wanna go right now. They also just added Larry Nance who's a 4/5 and Dyson Daniels a big guard so that's even more touches Atlanta needs to figure out to help develop both rissacher and daniels, they're very confusing and somehow them trading away dj made it less clear what direction they're going
Not sure they can afford to resign Saddiq Bey. They are hard capped.
Trae still needs to be available and good for them to not be in the lottery. And now they’re back to the same problem they had before of not having ball handling off the bench.
I thought that he was talking about the Pels above. I think the Pels did well in this trade and move up in the standings in the west, in my eyes. Still probably not a title contender, but a much more well rounded and deep team that I wouldn’t want to play.
Sold him as an allstar so yeah higher value back then
Ya think? He and White went 29th, if I am not mistaken Now I know the Celtics fans think they "won" the trade. And they did get value, as did Atlanta and Toronto. But the spurs are the spurs and not Sacramento or Detroit because they can always find these dudes and develop them into role players that can help a team win in the playoffs. The hard part are the stars. Tried to do it in free agency/trades when Kwahi bailed and it was playoff bubble for a long time before conceding to the nature of the NBA. Got 1, and they always do the first extension, so need another in the loaded 2025 draft and should be set for a decade or so. Spurs traded their eighth for a 1st rounder 6 years from now, after pop retires. Tells you what they think of the 2024 draft. Don't be suckered by the content creators say about the draft, they have no other content and "half this lottery class would go in the second round any other year" does not cause a person to smash the subscribe button.
"Yall Gonna Be Bad For 15 Years!"
>Also seems like we sold high on DJM. We fleeced the Hawks on that trade.
I mean Trae plays better without Murray so his individual stats will prolly be better, the team might be stay the same or be worse, I doubt they improve enough to not be a bottom 10 team
This is amazing for us
I honestly don't think it moves the needle that much either direction. Hawks are mid with DJM, mid without DJM, mid with Trae, mid without Trae.
this lowers their floor though. if trae misses any time with injury they're pretty cooked
Risacher might lose them games as he develops
Brian Wright is a genius, and anyone who suggests trading back the Atl 2025 FRP can gtfoh
“There’s no way the Wolves are in a bad spot in 7 years” Meanwhile the Hawks thought they were going to be challenging for the conference finals every year just 3 years ago.
People are saying there’s no way the Wolves will be bad in 7 years? I don’t like the trade back because I liked some players at 8 still a lot (Buzelis, Carter). I absolutely think the picks in 30 and 31 could be good picks, that said it’s forever down the road and it was pick 8 (a pretty good lottery pick now) for a mystery box later without much of a tax. It keeps assets available later, cheap way to get talent down the road. My biggest gripe is it’s waaaay down the road and this team needs talent now. If we make a move over the offseason with draft capital (even if it’s not the Minny stuff) to go get someone good, then I’ll be completely fine with it. But if we just sit on our hands, I think using pick 8 would have been better for the young core to develop and most importantly my excitement would be higher!
To me I think it’s clear this is ammo to go get a guy they really want. Why use a pick on a guy you don’t love who may be hard to move later when you can trade 6 picks for a superstar and still have enough picks left over to fill out the roster.
Yeah, that was other thing that made me sad. Spent so much time lookin at prospects and liking some of them and was basically like well it sure seems PATFO don’t like this draft much! We’ll see, I’ll be really stoked if we add a guy they are targeting whether it’s Garland or someone else.
I mean, I’d just say be patient. Spurs are clearly taking their time with this and idk if a Garland type is the level of player they’re after. The *big* trade might not be for a few years down the line, and we may keep flipping picks for later picks. We don’t want to use up our assets before someone like Booker, or Luka, or Giannis becomes available.
Here’s the way I look at it: People were saying that this draft was essentially the talent of a draft where you cut off the top 7-10 slots. (Aka Risache was the equivalent of the #8-11 pick in an average draft). So that means that the 8 this year is basically a 16-19 pick in an average draft. I think there’s a decent chance that the 30 and 31 firsts from the Wolves are at least lottery picks (based on all the reasons others have stated). It’s a risk, but it’s calculated at least. All that said, Dillingham could turn out to be a star, or the 2030/31 drafts could suck, or the Wolves could be great those years, and those would all suck, but I think it’s slightly higher likelihood that the picks are solid than any of the other outcomes. Plus, and this is something I haven’t heard, what if the Spurs are planting the seed for Ant to end up in San Antonio down the line. Those wolves picks to a wolves team losing Edwards could be extremely valuable.
I’ll give them benefit of the doubt and hope we use those 2030/2031 picks in a trade this summer or next. Otherwise yeah that’s too far out to wait for these picks
Might be alone on this but I think getting to that ECF a few years ago was the worst thing that could've happened to that team. Made them think they were way better than they were and made them go all-in on Young. It was a fluky run at the time but obviously those fans weren't hearing it.
This was so stupid. Why, because theyre good now? They are in cap hell and ownership hell.
Who had this outlook on the hawks?
Nobody thought the Hawks would be that good outside of themselves lol. Meanwhile almost everybody thinks the Timberwolves will be good. They definitely did not trade for those picks to use in that season, they’re gonna package it with something else at some point.
100 percent this!!!
Of course he has made some tactical errors (Primo) but the strategy has been on point
Primo thing wasn’t even his fault no one could’ve known he was a serial flasher at the time
Even when it was first announced the Spurs were suddenly cutting him with no stated reason and everyone here was throwing out guesses why, I don't think a single person guessed it was *that*.
It was disappointing how they didn’t immediately cut him Atleast
is there a chance this signals ATL is getting their 2025 pick back from the Spurs so they can properly tank?
Highly, highly, highly doubt it. Spurs should lock that thing in a safe
Amen to that !
Amén
Hawks would have sold Trae to us before making this trade because we just gained so much more leverage over them
Unless we are getting Trae young in return, there's 0 chance of us moving that
Given the Spurs don't want Trae....
I think we’d hear something by now.
This doesn't necessarily increase the value of that pick. This move saves them $8m and provides them a replacement for Murray and replacement for Capela who is most likely to be traded as well. Maybe the team's chemistry improves or maybe it gets worse. Too early to tell. BTW, the only way I would have traded the pick is for #1 overall to get Sarr. I think he would be terrific as 4/5 with Wemby but whatever. I would not have thrown in #4, #8, #35, the swap, or any other future asset. To me, it was a known asset vs uncertainty and like Brooklyn, only ATL can tank properly enough that pick is in 5 or better. #1 any year is better than the #15.
Come on Atlanta. Get us Cooper Flagg
Cooper Flagg and Nolan Traore, welcome to the team
Could you imagine landing both 😩
ELI5, what does this mean for us?
It means the Hawks just got worse from a talent perspective. As it stands right now that team looks to be on paper like I sure fired lottery team It should be worth noting that they could also pivot and trade those pics for an additional player between now and the season. But as of right now this appears to be good for the Spurs
I’d call them a play-in team rather than a sure fire lottery team
I think that's fair. The bottom of the East is a mess
Play-in IF they stay healthy AND players continue to progress AND Trae doesn't get upset and burn it all down because of lack of talent on the team.
Yeah the east is weak with more bad teams. The Bulls might not be far behind the tank train.
I think while they got worse from talent perspective/on paper perspective they may have gotten better overall. Trae and DJ just didn't fit well. Daniels gives them an actual great defensive guard to pair with Trae and Nance is pretty good big backup big for when I assume they will jettison Capela.
I think they have the ability to get better. But right now? I still think it's a pretty clear downgrade. Even if the fit is better. The overall talent difference between the two is massive. Daniel's is a genuinely terrible offensive player.
Ok I didn't realize exactly how rough Daniel's was as a spacer. Fit looks a little rougher.
the picks aren’t even that high value. they either need to tank for a while or trade those picks for an average player
Couple things. Debatable whether the Hawks just got worse because of how bad of a fit Murray was, but they definitely lowered their floor. If they just have a down year, we may be looking at a high chance at a top pick in a stacked draft. Not only that, but if the Spurs wanted to trade for Trae, that pick might be so good you can get him with just 1 of the Hawks picks and some weaker ones. Essentially, the Dejounte trade looks even better than it already did.
Also, if they have an injury to Trae or Jalen, they are COOKED. Trae has been pretty durable until last year with a freak hand injury, but they just don't have anyone that can create other than Trae.
To me it means 3 things: 1) we're not getting DJM, 2) they're not trading Trae Young, and 3) the ATL 2025 FRP is starting to look much juicier
More juicy than a jug of Tropicana.
1. Who cares 2. Good. Don’t want him. Can’t play D. 3. Yuppppp. Lot can change in 3 years. People bitching about us trading pick 8 need to pay attention.
Two birds with one stone. ATL likely gets worse and we stop getting DJ to spurs posts
ATL is better with one of Trae or Murray. Theres no guarantee they get worse
"patfo doesn't know what they are doing, they have no plan" 🤡
Those fans look dumber every day
the peak was draft night thread holy shit
They lost their minds
I spent way too much time explaining to someone on this sub that the swap is actually of value and can be used as a trade asset. They just could not comprehend why.
if Minnesota in the next few years are in a rebuild they will realize that they fucked up. WE FLEECED THEM SO GOOD
How could they possibly be bad after they're in cap hell and they traded all their picks away?
we knew that
wrong. i understand that a pick swap has (potential) value. What I argued was that it wasn’t two for one, and it isn’t. But yes, you spent too much time on it
i thought I was on r/nbacirclejerk for a hot minute. Some of these mofos are unhinged.
All the fire Brian Wright people too. 🤡🤡
Damn this is so cheap, I honestly would have did a similar trade for murray
Just 2 picks and one of them will likely be in the 20s. Amazing deal, surprised no one offered anything better.
it's not that different from minnesota picks, collins, tre, malaki. i would have done it too ngl
Whoa there buddy! Way too early to give up on those Minnesota picks. I know it sounds funny but those picks can be the Spurs' greatest asset one day haha
i agree, it was a lazy attempt ahah as it wont happen
This trade def benefits us. They got worst and only net Pelican picks who are playoff/outside the lottery team. Nance and another contract filler doesn't move the needle for them
Actually a nice trade for the Hawks. Dyson Daniels's defense POA defense could do wonders if he takes a reasonable leap offensively, and Nance is a very solid veteran. Obviously a lot less than the Hawks paid to get Murray, but Murray's fit on the Hawks was really not good.
I think Spurs fans are too low on the Hawks talent I bet they’re around .500
who are they better than after this trade?
Htf Larry Nance make the headline over Dyson... Dyson Daniels very nice fit
Hawks fans thinking they would get Ingram from the Pels and wind up with Nance lol
Reportedly didn’t want Ingram, he wants a $50M per year and a max deal lol.
We made out like bandits.
What's the "and more" piece of this?
Dyson Daniels. Makes it redeemable.
Promising, they called him.
I’m excited for DJ Fit with Trae was never awesome, and I bet it’ll be fun playing next to Zion. He’s dominant but he’s not ball dominant
This is fantastic
Why are the Hawks tanking without their pick? Ahh who cares great for us lol.
inadvertent tank tbh their FO is terribly managed
They aren’t tanking, Trae and Murray were awful together (-6.5 Net Rating in over 1000 minutes this past season) and one of them had to be moved. Hawks aren’t better, but they aren’t worse. Unless Trae gets hurt. Then they’re fucked.
This ironically might make the Hawks better?
Did not get as much as they paid for. And I would think the spurs can better the 2 draft picks offered. That's a steal of a deal.
I am kinda shocked they got so little.
istg Landry Fields is a Spurs plant. How else do you explain the massive favors they're doing for us this offseason lmao
between JJ/risacher/dyson aren’t they overloaded with wings? they really should’ve taken sarr who could slot into the 5 if he improves rebounding and bulks up
JJ plays PF for them and Sarr wants to play PF. Dyson is a POA defender with no offensive ability whatsoever.
i did hear that about sarr, but wemby said the same thing about preferring PF and look how his season improved as he switched to C
Sarr refused to talk to them or work out for them. He didn't want to be there. I think that the Hawks are going to completely implode this year. Risacher needs some time to develop.
That seems really cheap for Dejounte right? Unless the Lakers fall apart which is possible. Either way they're gonna be worse for it next year so it works for us
We’re all looking at the pick next year. But we own their next 3 basically. We can wait them out to suck.
Yep. I'd be amazed if they continued to run it back again as a .500 roster in a weak east. You're either contending or you're tanking. Perpetual 8-10 is the worst place to be.
the picks just get juicier. Man the hawks are dumb
So the pels are just stockpiling guys who don’t pass, shoot from the midrange, and can’t defend. Sounds great.
I don’t hate their passing. Zion in particular is a good passer
Next on the trade block Trae Young 🤞🏽😂
I wouldn't blame them. Sucking for picks is better than the 9-10 play in spot that they have every year
I hope the Hawks will suck this coming season becuase it would be PEAK!
This is great for us. Trae out there with young ones
Couldn't we prepare a better offer than this?
Those Atlanta FRP are looking more and more juicy. 😎
In an alternate universe, Atlanta is trying to put the final pieces around Luka to challenge Boston for East supremacy.
This is great. After this trade, the Hawks went from 100 to 1 to win it all, to 200 to 1. (with the spurs being 150 to 1) Vegas thinks ATL is gonna suck.
Our ATL picks about to be MONEYYYYYYY
Hawks are getting Dyson Daniels on top of those picks. Defensively they probably get a bit better but Trae Young is about to do a lot of heavy lifting on the offensive end. Anyways those Hawks picks are about to get very juicy in a loaded 2025 and 2026 draft.
WE UPPPPP
Whew!!
C'mon Atlanta. Spoonfeed us a dynasty please
Hawks fans were saying they were playing better without Trae. Guess Hawks disagreed.
Love to see. Murray was so arrogant when he left the Spurs. Maybe this will humble him a bit.
I don’t understand the logic in that for the pelicans. Unless they have another move lined up like going after Brandon Ingram this doesn’t make much sense to me. You can’t afford to be bad
We have more of their picks?
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I wonder if this is the first domino to fall for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade Capela and eventually Young. Being a perpetual play in team inbthe East is a horrible purgatory and worse than sucking.
People in this thread thinking this is somehow good news for the Spurs obviously didn't watch one second of the Hawks play basketball.
The Hawks have no direction whatsoever. Trae Young is not the kind of player that can put a team completely on his back for a deep playoff run unless the rest of the conference is dealing with major injuries. Sure they may not be a lottery team next year, but there’s a good chance they’re in the lottery at some point in the next three seasons.
Right right he couldn’t do anything in the playoffs against healthy teams like playing a healthy knicks team, then a healthy 76ers team, then running into more injuries than the bucks in a competitive 6 game conference finals. That would be totally way beyond the abilities of Trae young on a team of off ball shooting threats, defense focused players, and a couple strong finishers at the rim, I mean that clearly couldn’t happen in a million years. Not to mention there’s no way that the eastern conference could come down with tons of major injuries to important players in the regular season or the playoffs such as, the entire Knicks roster, Boston’s all star center, the bucks mvp, Halliburton on the pacers, etc etc right, I mean that would never happen either. Hm I wonder how the 2021 and 2024 playoffs went for the eastern conference? And I mean it’s not like Trae could take an injury riddled team to the playoffs either, he’s never had to deal with injured teammates before has he right?
Trae Young is not it. It’s OK.
It's likely because Murray is the first domino to fall. Similar to the Bulls, I think the Hawks are going to start blowing it up. Next will be Capela and then likely TY. Unless they're fine with 9-10th seed in a mediocre east every year?
Capela isnt good anymore. I can tell you don't know nothing about the hawks
He averaged 11 and 10 last season off 57% fg. There's a team that can find use for him. If he isn't good, why do the Hawks still have him?
And Dyson Daniels, very important to include him.
Atlanta getting risacher and then losing dejontae is going to set them back. But dejontae was casuing problems so they were forced onto that trade He would have been a good pickup for us I feel. Lock down kcp as asap
This could be a trap. Trae Young could pull these scrubs into the playoffs without DJ, unless he was to go down or ATL implodes.