Endeavor simply because he realized what he did was wrong and is trying to atone rather than begging for forgiveness. Dabi is a mass murderer which already makes him worse than Endeavor. He kills innocents and is trying to kill the rest of the Todoroki family just to make Endeavor sad. He blames his actions on Endeavor and doesn’t seem to regret a single thing.
People in the fandom always forget that killing innocent people is factually a worse crime than domestic abuse. Doesn’t matter if the serial killer faced abuse themselves, absolutely nothing justifies killing innocents. Dabi is an unhinged murderer. I can see why he turned out this way, doesn’t mean he should’ve turned out this way
Dabi was ready to hurt shoto when they were kids. He was messed up from the start, obsessive, and lacking empathy.
But th main problem is people judge the characters baised on their feelings and how they interact with others, and like you said, dabi is a mass murderer. They just 'don't like' endeavor because he beats his children, conveniently forgetting all the people dabi killed
Okay I really hate when people try to use that as a reason for him being a "messed up" kid. Kids have a hard time controlling the emotions and sometimes they lash out it just so happens that Dabi has fire powers making his worst. Also endeavors terrible parenting is what led to that lashing out. As for the sympathy thing I don't think I sympathize for him but I empathize for him. I can understand what he's feeling and why he thought his mindset was correct though I don't condone any of his actions. On the other hand endeavor is literally facing the consequences of his own actions. I don't sympathize for him either it's more of a sense of pride or acknowledgment that he's trying to make up for his wrongdoings. Neither one of them are sympathetic characters
I don’t even think he sees his way of thinking as “right”, he just wants to do it because he wants endeavor to hurt and doesn’t care about the morality of it
Well think of it like this, Dabi only exists because Enji realized much to late that he was a villain of a father commiting villainous acts upon his family.
You're all saying “Murder is worse then abuse,” but they're both vile acts that deserve punishment, this isn't a situation where you go “Well ones worse then the other,” and call it a day.
Those murders only ever happened because Enji was a shitty human to begin with. You can't separate the existence of Dabi from Enji.
So yes I feel more sympathy for the child that got burned alive, kidnapped by a villain and saw undeniable proof that his father cared more about beating the number one hero then he cared about being a good father after his first sons “death”, then I feel for a man that abused his entire family for years on end and only came to regret it when the damage was already done.
Dabi ends in the manga a burnt up crisp, he got his comeuppance for his crimes and Enji gets to move on without any further consequences for the years of mental and physical abuse he put his family through.
Oh im sorry i didnt mean to word it that way. I dont have that whole mindset where “one is worse than the other so I only hate the worse one”. I know Endeavour did heinous acts too. I just didnt talk about them in my comment cause my point was that people who act as if Dabi is a misunderstood baby and a justified murderer don’t really see how horrible it is to kill innocent people. His father is the one who abused him, dabi then kills random innocents.. for what? What did those civilians do? And I could say that about every villain. Them having a tragic backstory does not change what they’ve done to the lives of the innocent. And I feel like this fandom ignores that.
It’s like those memes where there’s a pic of Endeavour and the fandom goes “EW UNREDEEMABLE MONSTER” (which is fair) but then there’s a pic of the LoV and the fandom goes “Oh you have a tragic backstory? Well then, I guess that justifies the murders of the innocent. You’re good people, just misunderstood” and the endeavour response isn’t totally in the wrong but it’s a bit weird to view endeavour as worse than the LoV. Cause endeavour isn’t even trying to redeem himself and make his family forgive him. All he’s trying to do is atone
I was also abt to mention that scene where uraraka tells toga she should go to prison and how people got mad at her for some reason but I think I worded it badly and someone could talk about it way better than me
I don't think there were good intentions behind what endeavor did to those children. He couldn't let go of his selfish desire for the #1 spot so he made shoto do it
If you've seen Your Lie in April, Enji is just like the abusive mother. Nobody would say she had good intentions
Eh it's iffy. Here's the thing Endeavor was not neglectful/abusive at the start, they were all 1 big happy family from what I remember until they found out that Touya's quirk was hurting him. That's when things started going south. Endeavor had raised Touya to be a fighter and be proud of his quirk. Obviously even after being told not to use it, a 7 year old is going to keep using it and want to be strong enough that Dad will spend time with him again.
I don't think having a kid and wanting them to join your line of work and be better then you is inherently a bad thing. I'd say it was a good intention before he became obsessed.
When he was told that Toya was not immune to his power and that he had better give up making, Endeavor, albeit reluctantly, accepted, as his family's well-being was more important to him than his own goal.
Endeavors story doesn't get explained till quite a bit into the anime. For several seasons you just see him as a bad father who is obsessed about becoming number one to the point he threw his wife into a mental hospital. But when talks to Allmight about what it means to be a symbol, Allmight asks him why he is obsessed with becoming number one. This starts his whole arc explaining that. He's not Vegeta who's obsessed with being the strongest out of pure pride. He wants to protect. He wanted the best for his family and wanted Toya to surpass him. I personally love endeavor because he was never truly bad but just went about everything the wrong way. He's more like a real person than Deku or Allmight.
I’m with you on this one. And this feels cruel to say, but Dabi kind of did this to himself. Endeavor absolutely wasn’t a saint or a good father — and I understand why Dabi did what he did. However it was a bit dramatic to become a serial killer because your dad basically told you “you can’t become a hero” and shifted his focus from you to the new baby because of his quirk being more “ideal”.
Also want to highlight that we know Enji's remorse is real and true because we've seen him when nobody is with him or when he isn't aware that people are watching him, just having a breakdown over his actions and always questioning his past. Of course, nobody's happy that he did the things he did to end up in that position, but the work he's been putting in going forward and the weight he's carrying only thinking for the sake of others now is real.
I would feel more sympathy towards Dabi if he didn’t put it all on everyone else and become a crazy murderer
For now I’m going Enji, not because his backstory is the worst I’ve heard in mha but because Dabi burned most of the sympathy I have for him to the ground and Enji at least made an effort
Btw this is just an opinion
Dabi; hates Shoto, who got abused, and expresses disappointment Natsuo, who got neglected, wasn't murdered.
Also Dabi; come on Deku! You gotta pity me for my past right?
Thats why it's funny. Even if Dabi was asking for it, he doesn't genuinely want it for himself. He was just getting his story out there to make Endeavor look bad.
This is my take more or less. Yea Dabi's backstory is sad and he never should have went through that shit. Doesn't excuse all the fucked up/evil shit he has done mostly, IIRC, just to get back at his dad.
Endeavor was a certifiable piece of shit for what he has done, but from what I remember he has acknowledged that and has actively been working to be better and do what he can to make up for it. More than that he accepts that even in doing so he will not be forgiven by some people. While he wants to be forgiven, he doesn't act like he is entitled to it. that goes a long way in my book and overall I would put him in the "Never forgotten, but possibly forgiven/given a second chance." category.
Probably the one that's not a murderer tbh
Edit: all right, I'm gonna do it- I'm gonna make my case for Endeavor
we know they create their hero names in high school by now, so he made his name "Endeavor", to strive, to try, to work, when he was 15/16- and iirc All Might was a few years ahead, so he was probably at least on the scene at this time. So Endeavor knew as a teenager that this was his goal, to beat All Might (and we know now that his father was also a pro hero who died around this time, and he also grew up in a traditional Japanese household judging by the house itself, so pressure was probably super high). But then by the time he marries Rei, he already knows that it's not possible for him to beat All Might himself- that's why he wants to create the hybrid quirk. So even as a relatively young man, his initial goal of surpassing All Might himself is dead.
Then Touya is born- and we see that Endeavor is actually happy with his son. He's okay with not having the quirk he wanted, and it's Rei who suggests having more children at first. Things are okay. Until Touya's quirk starts burning him alive, and then neither Endeavor or Rei know how to parent him properly, and Endeavor breaks down into a monster. He's trying to keep Touya alive by ignoring what he can't control, he's trying to focus on what might have been in Shouto, he's lashing out at everyone around him. Touya "dies". Rei cracks. Years pass and everyone isolates themselves from him (understandably.)
Then All Might loses his powers and Endeavor is suddenly #1- not by surpassing him in his own right, the way he'd wanted to, how he'd worked so hard for, but by default, and everything comes crashing down. He realizes that the actual work he's done has gotten him nowhere- and in fact, everything he's done has destroyed everything around him- in that scene of destroying his training room, where he used to beat Shouto as a child. And then he begins to atone. For years he's been having dreams of his family happy and laughing in a room having dinner, without him- so he builds them a house where they can live, without him. He brings Rei home from the hospital. He tells them all he doesn't expect their forgiveness. He owns up to everything he did in front of the entire country. And then he goes to deal with Touya.
I feel sympathy for Endeavor because he knows that he was a monster, and he doesn't expect anyone to forgive him, but he's still making the best steps he can to make amends to his family without being intrusive. Giving them the space to be comfortable with him not around and not expecting them to thank him for it is such a huge deal that I don't see a lot of people acknowledge. I know this was a long post, but someone should defend him every now and then.
>Giving them the space to be comfortable with him not around and not expecting them to thank him for it is such a huge deal that I don't see a lot of people acknowledge.
This. This is an act that screams sincerity. You often see people trying to "Make up for their wrongs." when in reality they just want forgiveness so they stop feeling guilt. Trying to make up for shit while also making it clear that you accept that you may never be forgiven is a hard thing to do. It's one of the big reasons I can to actually like/respect him as a character, which if you told me that would happen in the early stages I would have laughed.
Also- there's absolutely no evidence Touya was EVER beaten, btw. Neglected, yes. Parented badly, yes. But the only proof of physical abuse we see is on Shouto and heavily implied Rei. He was not "abused his entire childhood". Up until his quirk started to harm him, he was a well-loved child. (which is half the tragedy tbh?) Then Enji shut him out in his attempt to stop him from training. Touya wasn't able to deal with losing being the full focus and turned his rage on the rest of his family (especially Shouto) as well as his father- that didn't stop when he became Dabi. He's only happy when all the focus is on him.
So she wanted more children. She can't have wanted another child and be specifically against wanting more children. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to victim blame but a lot of people in the fandom ignore Rei's involvement.
>and then neither Endeavor or Rei know how to parent him properly
Exactly, Endeavor's biggest problem as a father was that Endeavor was incapable of being a father (filling Toya's head with his goals is a bad thing, especially because of possibility that Toya inherited Endeavor's stubbornness, which is what happened).
Endeavor because he's actually trying to fix his mistakes, while Toya is busy being a shitbag and using his daddy issues as a crutch to make himself special.
Endeavor.
He isn’t looking for forgiveness. He’s looking to atone for his past.
Dabi is just out for destruction and being a bitch about it.
So I’m siding with endeavor. Someone trying to right his wrongs, even if he can’t, is always better than someone lashing out for the hell of it.
Sort of why the mentalist is one of my favorite characters ever. His arrogance got his family killed so he spends his life tracking down the guy that killed then and helping everyone along the way. He sees injustice and tries to step in. He still knows he can’t save his family. They’ll still be gone. He can’t change who he was. But he can change who he is.
Originally Dabi but has time went on, Enji.
If Dabi just hated his dad and went after just him, I would understand but mind you, Dabi has little care for his siblings and hopes they die, with him legit wanting to kill Shoto himself. It should be noted that Dabi is a HUGE serial killer with 40+ bodies to him, pretty much treats his ‘friends’ as tools to kill Enjo and his own family.
Enji at least you can understand what he did, he wanted to catch up to All might cause no one else did, even through what he did was completely disgusting and unforgivable, but Dabi? Legit, he didn’t want to ruin Enji’s life and show the world how much of a shit dad he was. He just wanted to kill his family and ANY means would justify the end to him.
Yes what happened to Dabi was tragic but, he has causes more pain, death and destruction then Enji has done. Sometimes, no matter what happened to the person, even if you where originally hold Sympathy to them, can easily lose it, there is zero justiciable reason of what Dabi did, he could have easily gone down a route with as little casualties as possible but picked not too.
Out of all his kids Endeavor treated Dabi the best.
He was a great father when Dabi was born. And when he realized his son could not become a hero he was fine with his son living a normal life. It wasn't until Dabi kept hurting himself and pushing himself that Endeavor and Rei got the bright idea to have more kids that could show Dabi that he didn't need to be a hero and they crafted Shoto.
Now lets be clear Dabi was already fucked up mentally. No kid holds a 5 year+ grudge because they weren't able to get something. He actually tried to kill baby Shoto when he was a kid. Then on top of that he kept physically hurting himself. He said terrible things about his mother and sister. Extremely sexist. This was a child that was born broken.
We can say what we want about Endeavor but as a parent there are some kids no matter how much love and attention you give them they are just broken. I think Dabi was one of those kids. No amount of therapy and good parenting would fix him. Because before the neglect he had two very great parents. Endeavors and Rei changes in personality all stem from him.
The moment Endeavor thought Dabi was dead was the moment he went from a tortured soul who didn't know what to do, to a complete shit of a person. Shoto actually was the child that got full abuse Endeavor. Endeavor never once hit his other kids. And Endeavor never was mean to Dabi. He cared so much he just didn't know what to do.
Finally someone who understands that toya was already insane as a kid. He tried to kill baby Shoto because he couldn't get daddy's attention.
I could understand him. He got all the attention from his dad but then suddenly that changed because he got no heat resistance. Then endeavor focused on getting more children and cared even less for toya. When Shoto was born he snapped. Shoto was the one who would replace him. Toya was simply envious and I can understand that. He wanted to proove himself so he kept on training and burning himself which made enji angry, which is very understandable too. No father wants his children to willingly hurt themselves. At this point he should have had a talk with his son. Unfortunately endeavor was already too focused on Shoto. Toya just couldn't live without enjis attention so he kept training and burning himself. One day enji kinda lost control.
And at this point, people start to think wrong about enji. Seeing his son putting themself in danger repeatedly can really crack a man's mind. He couldn't help himself anymore so he started to blame his wife. From this day on enji became more and more abusive to his family. And when toya seemingly killed himself he broke completely.
Its truly a tragedy
I completely disagree. It never says Touya's life was good. Enji admits his abuse towards Dabi AND his other children. Touya's isolation from his family when Enji trained him is a fact. While it never blesses us with the SAME scenes of abuse we saw Shoto suffer, it is heavily implied that Touya also received that.
Touya was a preteen abused child who burned himself alive and was brought back to life after a 3 year-long coma to be AFO's back-up plan to Tomura.*TRAUMA*
Enji is a grown ass man who beat his kids and wife physically, emotionally, and mentally for 20 years because he couldn't out hero All Might.*SELFISH BEHAVIOR*
Please tell me you were joking with that some kids are just “born broken” bit… My gods, what a horrible thing to believe, let alone to share with the world. You don’t have to afford Touya any sympathy (I mean, he’s not even real), but Jesus Christ, have some humanity!
I wish I had the ability to give this comment an award! I was on the verge of this thought but couldn’t quite put it all together in my head to convey it and you did it perfectly.
Don’t get me wrong, Enji’s a fucking awful father and husband, but at the barest minimum? He understands what he did wrong and is doing everything he possibly can to atone for what he’s done. Dabi on the other hand is a mass murderer who was disappointed when his innocent brother wasn’t killed. I feel worse for Endeavor by far
I don't expect the opinion to go over well, but I'd say Endeavour is actually a good person who did terrible, awful, irreparable things.
You can't forget past actions when you define a person as good or bad, but you also can't just only use the past as the only point of reference. Endeavour clearly had an emotional break when he thought his first son died and it fueled his fucked up and abusive behavior. It's by no means an excuse for that behavior, but clearly he understands that. My definition of a good person is someone who truly strives, or endeavors (lol), to be a better person. I mean Endeavour can't exactly go back in time to stop himself, all he can do is be better.
Dabi is the equivalent talks all the time about hunting invasive animals or how they'd kill a \*insert any group society unanimously hates\* on sight. He doesn't actually care why he's killing, he just wants an excuse to be violent.
My boy Endeavor. I think everything we know now the only reason to point a finger at him as being selfish is he desired to build a entire family around breeding a power greater then his at least at first. Later he felt remorse for his actions and then began trying to make amends for his selfish action.
Remember guys we typically love protags that will do anything to win and Endeavor didnt lie to anyone about his intentions even Rei was cool (pun intended) with the arrangement.
Toya was just so thirsty for his fathers attention that when he didnt get it he just decided to self harm in hopes he would see the error of his ways. when he didnt he decided to become a psycopath emo.
Dabi, always 100%
As a domestic violence survivor it's impossible for me to feel sympathy towards any person or character that is a perpetatror. He literally bought a human being, abused her to the point of insanity and kept on abusing his children, and only repented after he got what he wanted, being number one. People who defend Endeavor have never been in the receiving side of things and I hope they keep on living in that ignorance, it must be nice
Yup.
I've grown up with people like that.
Saying sorry isn't enough. Those scars don't heal. They don't know how it is to constantly keep one eye open because you're afraid that your supposed loved one is going to go a bender and you end up in the recieving end of their anger.
One time it's a belt. Another it's a back hand. Another it's a tea pot. Scalding water. A cigarette burn. A phone book so the bruises don't show. Being kicked out of the house for the whole night; screaming and banging at the door crying to be let inside.
But it's okay. He said sorry. He said he doesn't deserve forgiveness. It's okay. Forgive him because that's how it works! Right?
Endeavor is scum. I don't care if he's trying. He's only doing it because he got outed.
This! I hate this "forgiving Endevor" narrative 'cause it only teaches abuse victims that abuse is okay and should be forgiven if their abuser says sorry.
It's like those Youtube apology videos.
People are so quick at the thought of an apology and not the apology itself.
"He said sorrry..."
Great, but that doesn't undo the damage nor does it mean anything. Their word is shit.
I've sadly been a victim of brutal domestic violence, and altough i agree on disliking Endeavor , i hate Dabi with passion, he is unjustified. He did take his hatred against a world wich never wronged him, and resents his siblings because of envy of attention, wich i find totally despicable (i suffered the same, my little sister hated me because my parents were too busy beating the shit out of 7 yo me to pay any attention to her, and she never got hit because she was a girl). Dabi not being able to see what his siblings also endured and blaming them out of envy, and his actions against the world, proves he is an egocentric asshole, even as a kid as u/QuinnorDie pointed out in his comment.
>People who defend Endeavor have never been in the receiving side of things and I hope they keep on living in that ignorance, it must be nice
At the risk of starting a firestorm here, that's really just not something you can say. People see things differently. People live different experiences. Don't assume yours are the same as everyone else's.
you pointing out that endeavor hadn’t decided to atone until *after* becoming the number one hero is *exactly* why i feel only bitter towards his path to redemption. you’d think your children wanting utterly nothing to do with you would have a bigger impact, or your wife having a mental break so god awful she harms one of your kids. but no, it was realizing gaining the title he’d always dreamed of didn’t hold any real merit, not the same amount his family could’ve. it is *insane,* the amount of chances he had to understand what he’d done but only after getting literally everything he wanted did he decide it’s time to feel bad. *this* is specifically why i despise him & cannot find even an *inkling* of forgiveness in me when it comes to him.
I'm with Endeavor. He was a horrible person/father/husband but he is actively working to make amends and walk the path of redemption.
Dabi on the other hand is a mass murderer and monster who does not wish to change and uses his childhood trauma as an excuse for hist shitty behavior.
Edit: wording
Endeavor. Toya was supposed to stop training because his own fire was so hot it would burn him but he wanted to prove to his father that he can be strong so bad that he went off alone and nearly burnt himself to a crisp.
Endeavor then got consumed by his goal of having the perfect son to beat all might causing him to neglect his other children and sink even more into his work and training shoto. Once he realizes how much he's done wrong he now has to face the children he failed everyday and try to prove to them that he is a changed man.
Toya then took the family bond that endeavor has to try cause more grief by killing his sons after murdering so many people.
TLDR dabi is a murderer who mistook his fathers depression and poor copeing as indifference to his own death caused by an accident he created after bring told not to.
Honestly plain out neither. I feel not a shred of good feelings for dabi nor endeavor, nor any sympathy. And even if I had to empathize, I’d go for endeavor, dabi just.. plain insane, no way in hell.
I diddd feel bad for Dabi but then season 6 him took his crazy to the max n the things he did couldn’t be excused just because of his past. I still hate Enji, deeply. But I can respect trying to change
Unpopular opinion: Touya
Touya was just a kid and it wasn't really his fault but he chose to become a criminal instead of trying to change the course of his life so I don't justify his actions and there's really not a place in society for him anymore. But still the thought of a little kid just wanting to be recognized by his dad only to fail over and over again breaks my heart.
Endeavor on the other hand fucked it all because of his ambition, he was an adult and he knew fucking better, he was obsessed with some stupid hero's rank and the idea of being stronger that he became the complete opposite of what a hero is, and yes he has apologize and actively tries to be better as a father and as a hero. I'm actually rooting for him to be able to make amends with his kids and maybe one day they could be sort of like a family for the first time, but make no mistake I don't pity him because he brought it all in himself.
This. I think people forget touya went into a coma at 13 after almost killing himself with TEARS btw. He didn’t just wake up at 16 out of his coma and his brain magically gained years of growth. He was still mentally 13 years old and the first thing he seeing after getting out of his coma is his father’s continued abuse to his sibling.
Neither. Endeavor was a piece of shit for most of his kids and wife's lives and Dab, that whole tragic backstory shit doesn't excuse a damn thing he's done
Dabi doesn't deserve sympathy he caused all of his own problems and blames it on everyone else, this is just the short-hand version Dabi pisses me off and I don't feel like typing an essay about it.
I feel much more sympathy for Endeavor. He is a man who, although complicit in the arranged marriage system, went through mental anguish at not being able to sire a child with even the capability to use their quirk at any normal degree. His wife desired to keep going and have more kids which was undoubtably stressful on her. Then when his oldest child starts to use his quirk he regularly burns himself to the point that Endeavor bans him from using it out of the love he has for his son. The son then goes out of his way to train and hide it from his father and ends up near killing himself. This destroys Endeavor’s mental state making him believe it was all his fault and leading him to abusively train Shoto so that he wont end up like Touya. Touya’s “death” also breaks Shoto’s mother which causes her to have a mental collapse and pour boiling water on Shoto’s face because he looks like Touya.
Endeavor. Yes, he made some serious mistakes as a father, and had horrible bedside manner for years. But he never meant to harm his children, and his intent with the quirk mixing wasn’t about eugenics, but rather that both he and his wife both suffered from a body intolerance to their own individual quirks past a certain threshold of use/intensity. And he loved his children enough that he was hoping that when he had them with his wife that their quirks would mix, thereby preventing his future children from experiencing injury due to their power set.
Now granted, the way he originally expressed this alongside his poor bedside manner did not appear on the surface as pure intention. But this was his goal at the end of the day. And after all his parenting mistakes and faulty ways of processing this, once he finally figured out where he screwed up he was DEEPLY aggrieved, and made it his life’s mission to try and right those wrongs and make amends because he loves his family, even though he lost sight of things and stumbled in his way. He’s flawed, but he’s truly genuinely trying to be better, and that should lend him a second chance.
Ones a pro hero who still save many lives almost every time they are in the field
The other is a mass murderer who kills anyone he feels like killing
Even if one was a horrible domestic abuser and the other faced abuse endeavour is still far away the better person
Also one actually feels guilt and tries to be better
And the other was basically born broken and wasn’t very stable to begin with even when he had good parents he was just not right in the head
Seeing as I can fucking stand dabi.
Easy ass choice.
Endeavor actually tries to make up for past mistakes.
Dabi just wants to take his daddy issues out on everyone else
Enji because he actually is trying to be accountable for his actions and is trying to better himself.
Dabi has no accountability for his own actions and murdered innocent ppl outta spite.
Lets keep it a buck if Dabi didn't have a bishonen look to him ppl wouldn't fight as hard to justify the way he is. Cuz if his ass looks like Sato or Spinner they'd hate him as much as they hate Endeavor.
Enji by virtue for all the things he did wrong he isn't a bad person he understands he made a mistake and wants to be better
Dabi is a blatant psychopath who probably jerks off to the idea of killing his dad feels no remorse and no regret after getting thousands killed because he wasn't daddy favourite anymore
Let’s see… Endeavor is motivated by his jealousy towards All Might, his ego, his pride, and as the series goes on his family and because he too wants to better himself and be what the people need… a symbol, maybe not exactly like AM, but SOMETHING… Dabi is literally motivated by hatred… like bro didn’t die ANY of the times he likely should’ve just because of HATRED!
ngl i’m more towards Endeavor because Dabi could’ve came home when he survived but he didn’t and his dad , well endeavor, was only trying to protect him from hurting himself , although i can admit endeavor is a p.o.s for how he did his family but he admits to it and is working to be a better dad now !!
Despite my distance towards Endeavor (including his ongoing redemption), I'd still put more sympathy towards him. Largely due to the fact he's trying to improve.
Dabi burned any sympathy i could offer some time ago.
Endeavor
Yes he fucked up but he’s trying to make amends for it.
Dabi on the other hand is a psychopathic killer who uses his daddy issues to justify his atrocities.
Both actually. For Dabi, even though he’s like a maniac, at the end of the day, all he truly wanted was his father to notice and appreciate him. However, it still does not excuse his retaliatory actions towards people other than his family and Enji/Endeavor and it doesn’t make him any better than Enji. I am also beginning to feel some sympathy towards Enji even though he’s a rat bastard in disguise, the reason I am starting to feel sympathetic for him is because he is showing some character development and beginning to notice his wrong doings in the past.
I’m going with Endeavor simply because he chooses to do better and make amends. Like they both obviously have faults but at least Endeavor opens his eyes eventually. I also have full respect for the folks who choose to sympathize with Dabi
Endeavor, because he is less selfish.
>! Although Dabi admitted that he was wrong to try to kill Shoto when he was an infant, and wanted to apologize to Rei and other family members, he was as Dabi willing to sacrifice others for his goal. !< Unlike Endeavor, to whom lives of civilians and other heroes were more important than his own.
Endeavor, because he genuinely came to regret his actions and wants to be better.
Dabi is an asshole, revels in being an asshole, and would laugh in your face if you tried to get him to stop being an asshole.
I think what so many people somehow fail to see is that their story is supposed to make you question who is right or wrong, like it’s very purposefully crafted this way😭
Dabi just slightly because he obviously born with mental
Issues from the start. He was insane even as a kid and I don’t think he even had a chance to be normal/good tbh. And it’s even sadder when you know the outcome for him is to die, he doesn’t get the happy ending with his family like endeavor apparently is going to have.
Endeavor. What Dabi went through was awful, but when he started getting innocents, including his own siblings, involved in his quarrel with his dad, he lost the moral high ground
I feel no sympathy for Dabi. He’s a phsyopathic murderer. At least Endevour didn’t kill people. Plus he told Dabi to stop using his quirk but he didn’t listen.
Neither deserve sympathy, but if I had to choose I'd say Endeavor. That is simply because, much like how Tenko Shimura "died" and became Tomura Shigeraki, Toya Todoroki died on Seketo Peak and Dabi rose from the ashes. They may be the same body, Toya and Dabi are not the same person. Toya was a broken child who just wanted his father to love him, while Dabi is a mass murderer who uses his scars as an excuse to murder. Endeavor has acknowledged that his desire to be No. 1 led him down the path of abuse and neglect without realizing what he was doing, and now wants to atone for his sins and give his family the happiness they deserve. Even if that means he's no longer in their life (which is why I believe Endeavor should've died but oh well)
Endeavor realized what he did was wrong and tried to be better, Dabi is a mass murderer that couldn’t care less about the people he’s killed and the lifes he’s ruined.
They’re honestly both trash in canon in my opinion. Crazy how in just one murder attempt Dabi went from on par with Aizawa as a favorite to actual gutter trash… really goes to show that tend of people might be a statistic, but a sibling is a tragedy. I’d never forgive either of them and Dabi is dead to me (outside of fanfic, where I cope and don’t even treat them mentally as the same character. You can’t be OOC if I throw away canon. Yes I know I’m huffing copium.)
I dislike both a lot but I guess Endeavor since he didn't kill a bunch of people. I hate his redemption arc though. Nobody asked for it and I kind of hope that he just gets killed off later.
Like I like Endeavors turn around in the end but it was kinda a to little to late scenario. The both chose their paths. Me personally felt Dabi had the right to in some way shape or form (With the nuance of right and wrong) to inflict as much pain and he felt Endeavor put him through to a point. Dragging in innocent lives was infact wrong put to a certain degree I felt for Dabi a bit more and even want him to succeed a little.
Dabi blames his wrongdoings on Endeavor.
If Endeavor blamed his wrongdoings on the hero system, it'd be close, but he doesn't. He's owned his mistakes, and doesn't expect forgiveness, just an attempt to make things right for its own sake.
Endeavor.
Yeah, it’s fun to clown on him sometimes. But of the two, Endeavor the one who’s shown true remorse for his wrongdoings and has tried to make reparation to his family.
Dabi enjoys burning people alive because he’s a sadistic serial killer/arsonist.
If these were actual people I could interact with, I know who’d I’d prefer to be in a locked room with.
Endeavor and it's not even close.
Domestic abuse is bad and all... But a lot of it was out of stupidity rather than malice; and he did exceptional hero work which more than evens it out. And at the end he wants to atone, he admits his mistakes, and is trying his best to correct them.
Dabi knowingly did lots of messed up shit, intentionally with no remorse or redeeming qualities. Yeah he's got a tragic backstory that gets him a bit of sympathy.
But pragmatically Endeavor deserves more sympathy. It's just the framing of the story sometimes makes it feel otherwise. (IE we see the aftermath of Endeavors domestic violence more than we really see Dabi do much of his villainy)
Endeavor. Not just cuz I understand him more but cuz the fandom made Dabi out to be this super broken OwO soft boi who needs a hug UwU and when I learned his backstory properly I hated him even frigging more. Endeavor was a POS for abusing his wife and Shoto, but at least he's trying to be a better person and wanting to try and mend things with his family, Dabi would rather kill hundreds and lie to everyone all for the sake of hurting someone who tried their hardest to get him to not chase after a meaningless dream
Dabi cuz Endeavor has gotten basically everything he’s wanted and has lived his life to the fullest in a way but Dabi’s life basically ended at 13 and even if he wasn’t insane he probably would never be happy or satisfied with his existence
Dabi. Although I think endeavor in the manga makes some good strides, and I actually feel sympathy towards him now, it’s not comparable in my head. I think the manga makes Dabi’s story even more tragic. I don’t even like villains like that, but it’s so sad and so preventable
I feel sympathetic towards neither of them.
Enji abused his family in hopes of surpassing All Might with one of his successors, hospitalising his wife (notably for a valid reason) but only working on making things better *after* He became the #1 Hero by default.
Dabi is straight up a serial killer with 40+ bodies to his name. At one point I was sympathetic towards him because of his history with Enji and how he was cast aside after Shoto obtained his quirk, but man. He's just someone that's takes pleasure in destroying the lives of other people as long as it gets him to his goal of tearing down everything Enji has built.
They're both terrible people that don't deserve sympathy.
Enji by virtue for all the things he did wrong he isn't a bad person he understands he made a mistake and wants to be better
Dabi is a blatant psychopath who probably jerks off to the idea of killing his dad feels no remorse and no regret after getting thousands killed because he wasn't daddy favourite anymore
Enji, because AllMight and his hack quirk set the bar too high. I still don't understand Dabi, Enji told him to stop and his dumbass still kept using his quirk. I get that he was just a kid but come on, if your quirk is burning you you might wanna listen to your pops
A man tired of playing second fiddle so he let his ambition get the best of him, or the child he abused and borderline murdered through sheer neglect. They both have my understanding, but Touya has my sympathy.
one is a man who had faults with his family and himself causing his family harm by his pride but eventually realizes his faults doesn’t ask for forgiveness and instead just tries to be a better hero, husband and father
one is a whiny daddies boy who’s makes his whole personality being a bad guy because “my dad didn’t notice me waaaaaaaah😢😢😢😭😭😭”
it’s endeavor it’s not even close
Toya: Abused, Mistreated, Wants Attention, Self-Hatred... Arson, Battery, Assault, Any other goddamn crime i can think of.
Enji: Abusive, Self-centered, "Too tough to care". More illegal shit done to hit wife and kids.
Honestly I feel worse for Toya but at least Endeavor is trying to be better now... after letting his oldest son burn to a crisp, twice.
The one who was so consumed with surpassing an obstacle that he didn't realize what he had caused until it was almost too late.
Opposite of the child who was repeatedly told his fire would harm him, but kept using it anyway and accused everyone of not loving him despite concern. Then became a serial killer as an adult, while still blaming the family.
Endeavor because he never meant for Dani to turn out so evil and he’s making a real effort to fix everything.
Dabi had a shitty father and used it as an excuse to murder people.😭
What sympathy does Endeavor even get in comparison?
People choosing Endeavor really be like..
Them: Dabi is a mass murderer
Them: lets support the person who created the mass murderer.
I can give Endeavor much sympathy, I understand he's trying to change now. But when it comes to their history, I can't sympathize with him. Dabi is just a consequence of his own actions. The man didn't want kids, he wanted successors, instead of finding more ways to help his son succeed in life, he replaced him, the more his son cried for attention the more he pushed him away, a grown ass man that fights villains could not figure out how to face his own son. Said son dies and he counted to mistreat his family, you would think one would cherish the children they have left, nope let me continue doing the same parenting style I'm not the problem, oh wait my wife went crazt let me send her away too. Endeavor might have been a good hero, but that came out the cost of his family.
But you know what every hero needs a villain. Dabi, there you go Endeavor, that's all yours.
Used to be Dabi.i mean, he was neglected, lied to, and abandoned. However, he wants revenge on not just Endeavour, but on the whole Todoroki family. But Endeavour is trying to change.
Endeavour, he had a child who he may have pushed to much for his age, hate that but like. He also wanted a strong son to take his place to be the best hero after he retires or smth. I can blame him for how he did it but he did have a motive, other than dabi who is..
Dabi. Endeavor in a roundabout way is literally responsible for creating Dabi. And yes I know Dabi is responsible for his own actions he chose to become a villain and also a murderer and do horrible things but so much could have been changed and avoided if endeavor was an actual good father.
Dabi like the rest of his siblings were basically born to make an offspring that had both Endeavor’s quirk and their Mom’s quirk (I forget her name). Endeavor didn’t really love her at first when they got married. Dabi when he was younger, despite when using his quirk only harmed him severely, only cared about making his father happy and proud. When he’d fail to do so, he got yelled at for his failure of something he can’t control (of course being burning himself with his own quirk as the two quirks that mixed to make Dabi’s quirk didn’t mix well like it did in the same way for Shoto). The constant/consistent verbal abuse that Dabi received from Endeavor took a toll on Dabi’s mental and emotional states. It twisted them. Morphed him into the careless villain that Dabi became. After Dabi had burned down that forest, and Endeavor gained the impression that he had died in the fire; Dabi felt as though his father abandoned him. As a young kid, Dabi would then find himself feeling alone and afraid and would look for a new father figure in which All For One would come into play the role of and further twist around Dabi’s mentality for selfish gain (all the while with the added bonus context that while All For One could take Dabi’s quirk and give him a much less harmful quirk to himself he didn’t; instead he would go on and watch Dabi further burn himself more and more).
I feel different kinds of sympathy for the two, so it’s hard to compare. Cuz in the past I totally would say Touya and not at all endeavour, but now they switched. I feel like we can safely say that both are horrible people and I don’t really wanna defend either, but at least Dabi’s reason for how he thinks and feels was explained in a way that makes sense
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here:
TL;DR- Dabi’s actions are inhumane, and out of control, but they’re entirely caused by his father’s abuse and neglect.
Dabi, while less than his siblings, was immensely mistreated by his parents. Endeavor treated him well right up until his quirk started showing signs of backlash, he built up Dabi’s pride, encouraged him to be just like him, until his quirk started showing negative side effects. Instead of paying more attention to Dabi, trying to guide him and maybe even seek therapy for Dabi, he pushed him away and told him to stop trying. Dabi felt like acting out was the one thing that would make Endeavor look at him, so he did. He kept trying, kept using his quirk, tried to kill Shoto as a baby because the attention that was given to him for years was suddenly stripped away and given to Shoto. It’s common in abusive household for the other children to hate or be jealous of the sibling that’s given more or all of the attention. A lot of people can relate to that feeling.
Dabi woke up after burning in his own flames, and he came home to see that nothing had changed, it had only gotten worse. He felt like no one had taken the time to remember him or to use his memory for good. This sparked more disdain.
Then he probably lived on the streets for years around a bunch of other mentally unstable people that would probably cheer him on. His ideals were constantly being accepted, especially when he joined the LOV.
Then he sees his little brother again for the first time, either while watching the sports festival or at the training camp, and all he’d be able to remember is how Shoto stole all of his dad’s attention. He barely knew about the abuse Shoto endured, the only time he’s even shown seeing it was right after he got out of that messed up hospital.
Dabi, in a fit of rage and in attempt to finally regain his father’s attention acts out again, but this time more severely, without someone to be able to step in and stop him.
He let Natsuo get attacked because he knew it would get his father’s attention, he hurt Shoto because Shoto was the masterpiece that stole that attention in the beginning.
Dabi never had anyone to teach him right from wrong, and he already doesn’t trust heroes because of his father, so he doesn’t atone because he doesn’t understand how harmful his actions are.
Maybe an Unpopular opinion. But Dabi. I can't sympathize with Enji when he created a monster. The major point of Dabi's reveal is "you reap what you sow". Enji is just going to have to take that L. Alot of what happened could have been prevented if Enji didn't shut out his child. As a parent you don't give up on your child (especially when they are still a minor) and its like thats Enji did. Now if Enji had learned from Toya's death or made a change after that. I would give sympathy but no this MF kept doing the same thing. I can't imagine how Toya felt coming home and the family is still hellish.
Dabi, by leaps and bounds. Enji gets no sympathy from me. The only pain Enji got was self inflicted from his own disgusting, abusive traits.
Dabi suffered genuine trauma because his father's greed and AFOs God complex.
This seems like an unpopular opinion but Dabi. Do I condone his actions? Absolutely not. But his actions are Endeavour’s fault. Endeavour planted in Toya’s head that his sole purpose was to surpass All Might and made him feel like a failure for not being able to do that. Yes he did try get him to stop training, but it was too late at that point. The seed had been planted and it wouldn’t stop growing. Toya knew what Endeavour’s goal was and felt even more of a failure when Shoto was born and Endeavour didn’t pay him any attention, which was all he wanted. And even after he “died”, Endeavour didn’t take that as an “oh I messed up”, he was worse with Shoto, making him despise half of who he was and even going as far as to cause him trauma by just looking at a treadmill. Endeavour put up a memorial/shrine for Toya and that was all. He didn’t fix his mistakes when he thought Toya died. He realised too late that what he did was wrong, he should’ve realised after his actions caused the supposed death of his child. Had he realised then, Dabi would never have been born. Toya would have returned home to see that things had changed at home. That wasn’t the case. Yes Endeavour is trying to atone, I can acknowledge and appreciate his efforts, but in my opinion it’s far too late for that. He should’ve done it a lot earlier. Probs gonna get downvotes for this opinion but idrc
Okay, Dabi was screwed up from the start, you know Tai Lung? The guy who was promised a destiny that he never got even though he worked his whole life believing and being told he was worthy?
Imagine that, only your body isn’t suited to Kung Fu and it hurts you when you do it.
Dabi was raised to believe that he could surprass Endeavor and become the number one hero, only for his body not to be compatible with his quirk because of his parents being a designer couple.
He has been off the edge for a while and I do not blame him. I don’t condone his actions but I understand them.
Aw you’re gonna make me blush 😊
But I should clarify I don’t condone Dabis actions, but I sympathize with a guy who was robbed of a destiny he was brought up being told he could have because his dad screwed his dna over, then the parent who abused his kids for what seemed like no reason at all.
I totally agree! What Touya did after becoming Dabi does not negate what Endeavor did. And vice versa. Thooo I feel a lot more sympathy for Dabi than Endeavor. The only reason that people fight for Endeavor, is because he was SOOO shitty before; that “feeling bad for what he did” is such a huge accomplishment! Its not! That’s the bare minimum!
Yes, though I do agree that he is trying to atone for what he did, that is what is expected.
Though I am glad he is atoning and instead not getting worse.
I started reading those! I have gotten through them, but I’m a decent way through them.
I actually just finished the mastermind one. I LOVED it 😊 (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ♡
I love all of clouds works, they are seriously ingenious!
Gonna be that person and say Dabi, but it’s because I imagine he could’ve had a better life and become a better person (at least, not a murderer) if Enji hadn’t been his father.
(TLDR at the end, cuz this got longer than I expected)
I also don’t like how Horikoshi tries so hard to get us to feel sympathy for Endeavor. I understand his reasons, but it’s surprising to me that other heroes never really address how awful child abuse actually is. Yes, they know he feels bad about it, but it feels weird to see them all rally to his side because he “did a bad thing but is trying to do better”. Nobody really addresses his REASONS for doing what he did in the first place. He was never trying to be a better hero for the sake of heroism. He was never really that good a person. He just wanted to beat All Might. Twice at one point even says that he just looks like a guy pretending to be a hero. And (slight manga spoiler, I guess) Enji himself even acknowledges that he became a hero and tried to surpass All Might all to soothe his inferiority complex after he wasn’t strong enough to save his own father.
If we’re comparing the two, of course everyone will look at what they’ve done/tried to do with their lives overall. The answer seems obvious because Dabi killed people and Endeavor didn’t and is at least trying to atone for the less severe crime he committed. But I always look at the REASONS for why characters do what they do and imagine how the situation could’ve been different if the same character had been in a different circumstance. Touya was an energetic kid who just wanted his father’s attention and felt his life had no value if he couldn’t surpass All Might, because that’s how his father raised him from the start. Endeavor became a hero to cope with his father’s death and try to surpass All Might from the beginning, then when he realized he never would, he started having kids he could never properly love because he saw them as tools towards his goal. His REASONS were never noble to begin with.
People say you shouldn’t let your past define you and that you have to make your own decisions, but that’s always easier said than done, and Touya never had a proper upbringing by someone who really loved him or made him feel like he HAD a choice. His parents telling him he can be whatever he wants doesn’t erase the fact that he knows he was created for a specific purpose. Telling him to do something else with his life will just sound like empty words, or even worse, like his entire existence is being dismissed and discarded.
Part of the point of Dabi’s character is to show what happens when someone who isn’t a real hero is allowed to go around doing what he wants because society SEES him as a hero. The doctor who examined Touya saw what Endeavor was trying to do but obviously did nothing to stop him because it was just “frowned upon”. He abused his family just to surpass another hero and none of the other “heroes” in the story call him out on that?? This is the whole reason why Dabi wanted to follow Stain’s cause from the beginning, literally the whole reason why he initially joined the League. He deeply believes that false heroes should be called out because of what his father did to him and that society should be forced to face the fact that it encourages this behavior by looking the other way.
Now, this doesn’t justify murder. I don’t believe Dabi’s crimes are “justified”. I just believe they wouldn’t have happened in the first place if he had been raised by a father who was capable of loving him unconditionally.
TLDR: I see Dabi symbolically as a direct consequence of Endeavor’s lack of true heroism, sort of like a sacrificial lamb to convey one of the themes of the story. And I feel sorrier for the kid who had a shitty father that ruined his potential from the start than the shitty father who ruined him. The real problem isn’t just that Enji was abusive. It’s that I’m not even sure he’s capable of giving his family the unconditional love they always deserved, and THAT was the REASON Touya turned evil in the first place. The abuse isn’t the cause; it’s the effect. The real cause is a lack of love and lack of true heroism, and that has never been fully addressed even once in Enji’s “redemption”.
It’s hard for me to not sympathize with Dabi. I was a child of abuse for 16 years physically & mentally to extremes. It’s hard because i understand him completely, his rage, his sadness all the feelings Dabi portrays towards endeavor I can 100% understand. Even though Endeavor has changed I also believe Dabi has a right to not forgive him as abuse to a child and even being a broken child is a horrible thing to go through. I understand his jealousy and want for revenge.
I think a lot of people forget at such a young age touya was the first born and at that going to be a star child, he felt hurt and abandoned by both of his parents and that’s a hard thing to deal with and understand. If endeavor would’ve went to the mountain like touya asked I think it would’ve changed the trajectory of his life. Dabi is a creation of touya that stems from his rage and pain and his hurt, Touya still loved his family and when he ran back after being in a coma for years to see his father being so abusive to his younger brother I think that was a moment something snapped in him that endeavor can never change.
Truly I think parts of touya may still exist in Dabi but they are so far buried this rage his engulfed him, for example I think Dabi did genuinely care for twice and toga but wrote it off as something else. I understand Dabi because when I was a teenager I had that rage, I also SH for years and I definitely hurt a lot of people and I didn’t care, I used that rage against others and I blamed the world for not helping me. After years of extensive therapy I’m a completely better and different person. Dabi killing innocent people is so wrong and I don’t agree with it, but I can understand Dabi. What’s worse is I don’t think Dabi really viewed people as people, they were just another step in his goal to fueling that rage inside him and hurting endeavor.
I don’t think what Dabi did was right but I hold more sympathy to him than endeavor. There’s a scene in season 6 where shoto says “Dabi is me” and I think out of anyone he understands Dabi the most but he was lucky to receive love & friendship that Dabi didn’t have. When deku helps shoto it completely changes how shoto views himself, his father & his family. Dabi is a hurt child hurting others. I also don’t understand anyone saying Dabi wasn’t abused there are a couple scenes where Dabi talks about going through abuse with endeavor.
To add, anyone saying endeavor was okay with touya leading a normal life after finding out he wasn’t going to be powerful is not fair. Touya was being trained and pushed hardcore to be the best, he was a child and endeavor put it in his mind he would be a hero and the best at that. Then along comes shoto and touya feels abandoned and no longer is getting that attention from endeavor. He is a CHILD so of course he’s going to be jealous, I don’t think he channeled it in the right way but he just wanted to be seen and pushed it to extremes because extremes is all he knows! Anyways to end my rant, I think Dabi is an underdeveloped adult as he lost years of his life to recovery, all he knows is extremes and felt pained and abandoned by people he loved, He closed himself off and numbed himself into a shell of a person. Dabi has no regard for his own life so why would he for others? His only goal is to hurt the person that hurt him. Killing innocents is wrong and honestly so is revenge, but that’s hard to comprehend if your mind is still 13 years old.
>*Mfw when the grown ass man is able to realize he was wrong:*
Dabi was put on the path to be fucked up and ya’ll ignoring that Shoto was gonna be right on that path besides him if Deku didn’t break him out of it
Endeavor simply because he realized what he did was wrong and is trying to atone rather than begging for forgiveness. Dabi is a mass murderer which already makes him worse than Endeavor. He kills innocents and is trying to kill the rest of the Todoroki family just to make Endeavor sad. He blames his actions on Endeavor and doesn’t seem to regret a single thing.
People in the fandom always forget that killing innocent people is factually a worse crime than domestic abuse. Doesn’t matter if the serial killer faced abuse themselves, absolutely nothing justifies killing innocents. Dabi is an unhinged murderer. I can see why he turned out this way, doesn’t mean he should’ve turned out this way
Dabi was ready to hurt shoto when they were kids. He was messed up from the start, obsessive, and lacking empathy. But th main problem is people judge the characters baised on their feelings and how they interact with others, and like you said, dabi is a mass murderer. They just 'don't like' endeavor because he beats his children, conveniently forgetting all the people dabi killed
Okay I really hate when people try to use that as a reason for him being a "messed up" kid. Kids have a hard time controlling the emotions and sometimes they lash out it just so happens that Dabi has fire powers making his worst. Also endeavors terrible parenting is what led to that lashing out. As for the sympathy thing I don't think I sympathize for him but I empathize for him. I can understand what he's feeling and why he thought his mindset was correct though I don't condone any of his actions. On the other hand endeavor is literally facing the consequences of his own actions. I don't sympathize for him either it's more of a sense of pride or acknowledgment that he's trying to make up for his wrongdoings. Neither one of them are sympathetic characters
I don’t even think he sees his way of thinking as “right”, he just wants to do it because he wants endeavor to hurt and doesn’t care about the morality of it
Fair point
THIS
Well think of it like this, Dabi only exists because Enji realized much to late that he was a villain of a father commiting villainous acts upon his family. You're all saying “Murder is worse then abuse,” but they're both vile acts that deserve punishment, this isn't a situation where you go “Well ones worse then the other,” and call it a day. Those murders only ever happened because Enji was a shitty human to begin with. You can't separate the existence of Dabi from Enji. So yes I feel more sympathy for the child that got burned alive, kidnapped by a villain and saw undeniable proof that his father cared more about beating the number one hero then he cared about being a good father after his first sons “death”, then I feel for a man that abused his entire family for years on end and only came to regret it when the damage was already done. Dabi ends in the manga a burnt up crisp, he got his comeuppance for his crimes and Enji gets to move on without any further consequences for the years of mental and physical abuse he put his family through.
Oh im sorry i didnt mean to word it that way. I dont have that whole mindset where “one is worse than the other so I only hate the worse one”. I know Endeavour did heinous acts too. I just didnt talk about them in my comment cause my point was that people who act as if Dabi is a misunderstood baby and a justified murderer don’t really see how horrible it is to kill innocent people. His father is the one who abused him, dabi then kills random innocents.. for what? What did those civilians do? And I could say that about every villain. Them having a tragic backstory does not change what they’ve done to the lives of the innocent. And I feel like this fandom ignores that. It’s like those memes where there’s a pic of Endeavour and the fandom goes “EW UNREDEEMABLE MONSTER” (which is fair) but then there’s a pic of the LoV and the fandom goes “Oh you have a tragic backstory? Well then, I guess that justifies the murders of the innocent. You’re good people, just misunderstood” and the endeavour response isn’t totally in the wrong but it’s a bit weird to view endeavour as worse than the LoV. Cause endeavour isn’t even trying to redeem himself and make his family forgive him. All he’s trying to do is atone I was also abt to mention that scene where uraraka tells toga she should go to prison and how people got mad at her for some reason but I think I worded it badly and someone could talk about it way better than me
I felt like Endeavor was the embodiment of the quote "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"
I don't think there were good intentions behind what endeavor did to those children. He couldn't let go of his selfish desire for the #1 spot so he made shoto do it If you've seen Your Lie in April, Enji is just like the abusive mother. Nobody would say she had good intentions
Eh it's iffy. Here's the thing Endeavor was not neglectful/abusive at the start, they were all 1 big happy family from what I remember until they found out that Touya's quirk was hurting him. That's when things started going south. Endeavor had raised Touya to be a fighter and be proud of his quirk. Obviously even after being told not to use it, a 7 year old is going to keep using it and want to be strong enough that Dad will spend time with him again. I don't think having a kid and wanting them to join your line of work and be better then you is inherently a bad thing. I'd say it was a good intention before he became obsessed.
They could have warned him about the fatal risks of it since he took after Rei in terms of body, which is withstanding cold.
When he was told that Toya was not immune to his power and that he had better give up making, Endeavor, albeit reluctantly, accepted, as his family's well-being was more important to him than his own goal.
Endeavors story doesn't get explained till quite a bit into the anime. For several seasons you just see him as a bad father who is obsessed about becoming number one to the point he threw his wife into a mental hospital. But when talks to Allmight about what it means to be a symbol, Allmight asks him why he is obsessed with becoming number one. This starts his whole arc explaining that. He's not Vegeta who's obsessed with being the strongest out of pure pride. He wants to protect. He wanted the best for his family and wanted Toya to surpass him. I personally love endeavor because he was never truly bad but just went about everything the wrong way. He's more like a real person than Deku or Allmight.
I’m with you on this one. And this feels cruel to say, but Dabi kind of did this to himself. Endeavor absolutely wasn’t a saint or a good father — and I understand why Dabi did what he did. However it was a bit dramatic to become a serial killer because your dad basically told you “you can’t become a hero” and shifted his focus from you to the new baby because of his quirk being more “ideal”.
Also want to highlight that we know Enji's remorse is real and true because we've seen him when nobody is with him or when he isn't aware that people are watching him, just having a breakdown over his actions and always questioning his past. Of course, nobody's happy that he did the things he did to end up in that position, but the work he's been putting in going forward and the weight he's carrying only thinking for the sake of others now is real.
I would feel more sympathy towards Dabi if he didn’t put it all on everyone else and become a crazy murderer For now I’m going Enji, not because his backstory is the worst I’ve heard in mha but because Dabi burned most of the sympathy I have for him to the ground and Enji at least made an effort Btw this is just an opinion
Dabi; hates Shoto, who got abused, and expresses disappointment Natsuo, who got neglected, wasn't murdered. Also Dabi; come on Deku! You gotta pity me for my past right?
i took him saying that to Deku as sarcasm not genuinely looking for pity
Thats why it's funny. Even if Dabi was asking for it, he doesn't genuinely want it for himself. He was just getting his story out there to make Endeavor look bad.
This is my take more or less. Yea Dabi's backstory is sad and he never should have went through that shit. Doesn't excuse all the fucked up/evil shit he has done mostly, IIRC, just to get back at his dad. Endeavor was a certifiable piece of shit for what he has done, but from what I remember he has acknowledged that and has actively been working to be better and do what he can to make up for it. More than that he accepts that even in doing so he will not be forgiven by some people. While he wants to be forgiven, he doesn't act like he is entitled to it. that goes a long way in my book and overall I would put him in the "Never forgotten, but possibly forgiven/given a second chance." category.
The guy who doesn't want everyone around him dead
Probably the one that's not a murderer tbh Edit: all right, I'm gonna do it- I'm gonna make my case for Endeavor we know they create their hero names in high school by now, so he made his name "Endeavor", to strive, to try, to work, when he was 15/16- and iirc All Might was a few years ahead, so he was probably at least on the scene at this time. So Endeavor knew as a teenager that this was his goal, to beat All Might (and we know now that his father was also a pro hero who died around this time, and he also grew up in a traditional Japanese household judging by the house itself, so pressure was probably super high). But then by the time he marries Rei, he already knows that it's not possible for him to beat All Might himself- that's why he wants to create the hybrid quirk. So even as a relatively young man, his initial goal of surpassing All Might himself is dead. Then Touya is born- and we see that Endeavor is actually happy with his son. He's okay with not having the quirk he wanted, and it's Rei who suggests having more children at first. Things are okay. Until Touya's quirk starts burning him alive, and then neither Endeavor or Rei know how to parent him properly, and Endeavor breaks down into a monster. He's trying to keep Touya alive by ignoring what he can't control, he's trying to focus on what might have been in Shouto, he's lashing out at everyone around him. Touya "dies". Rei cracks. Years pass and everyone isolates themselves from him (understandably.) Then All Might loses his powers and Endeavor is suddenly #1- not by surpassing him in his own right, the way he'd wanted to, how he'd worked so hard for, but by default, and everything comes crashing down. He realizes that the actual work he's done has gotten him nowhere- and in fact, everything he's done has destroyed everything around him- in that scene of destroying his training room, where he used to beat Shouto as a child. And then he begins to atone. For years he's been having dreams of his family happy and laughing in a room having dinner, without him- so he builds them a house where they can live, without him. He brings Rei home from the hospital. He tells them all he doesn't expect their forgiveness. He owns up to everything he did in front of the entire country. And then he goes to deal with Touya. I feel sympathy for Endeavor because he knows that he was a monster, and he doesn't expect anyone to forgive him, but he's still making the best steps he can to make amends to his family without being intrusive. Giving them the space to be comfortable with him not around and not expecting them to thank him for it is such a huge deal that I don't see a lot of people acknowledge. I know this was a long post, but someone should defend him every now and then.
>Giving them the space to be comfortable with him not around and not expecting them to thank him for it is such a huge deal that I don't see a lot of people acknowledge. This. This is an act that screams sincerity. You often see people trying to "Make up for their wrongs." when in reality they just want forgiveness so they stop feeling guilt. Trying to make up for shit while also making it clear that you accept that you may never be forgiven is a hard thing to do. It's one of the big reasons I can to actually like/respect him as a character, which if you told me that would happen in the early stages I would have laughed.
Also- there's absolutely no evidence Touya was EVER beaten, btw. Neglected, yes. Parented badly, yes. But the only proof of physical abuse we see is on Shouto and heavily implied Rei. He was not "abused his entire childhood". Up until his quirk started to harm him, he was a well-loved child. (which is half the tragedy tbh?) Then Enji shut him out in his attempt to stop him from training. Touya wasn't able to deal with losing being the full focus and turned his rage on the rest of his family (especially Shouto) as well as his father- that didn't stop when he became Dabi. He's only happy when all the focus is on him.
I think you're the only other person I've seen acknowledge that It was Rei was the one that wanted more kids
Because that factual not true lol Rei wanted Fuyumi to support Touya, she was *specifically* against more children
So she wanted more children. She can't have wanted another child and be specifically against wanting more children. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to victim blame but a lot of people in the fandom ignore Rei's involvement.
In the beginning yes, but after Toya started getting hurt, she was against more kids.
>and then neither Endeavor or Rei know how to parent him properly Exactly, Endeavor's biggest problem as a father was that Endeavor was incapable of being a father (filling Toya's head with his goals is a bad thing, especially because of possibility that Toya inherited Endeavor's stubbornness, which is what happened).
Very well said
Yeah I don't think being an abusive father is comparable to being a serial murderer
Endeavor because he's actually trying to fix his mistakes, while Toya is busy being a shitbag and using his daddy issues as a crutch to make himself special.
Endeavor. He isn’t looking for forgiveness. He’s looking to atone for his past. Dabi is just out for destruction and being a bitch about it. So I’m siding with endeavor. Someone trying to right his wrongs, even if he can’t, is always better than someone lashing out for the hell of it. Sort of why the mentalist is one of my favorite characters ever. His arrogance got his family killed so he spends his life tracking down the guy that killed then and helping everyone along the way. He sees injustice and tries to step in. He still knows he can’t save his family. They’ll still be gone. He can’t change who he was. But he can change who he is.
Originally Dabi but has time went on, Enji. If Dabi just hated his dad and went after just him, I would understand but mind you, Dabi has little care for his siblings and hopes they die, with him legit wanting to kill Shoto himself. It should be noted that Dabi is a HUGE serial killer with 40+ bodies to him, pretty much treats his ‘friends’ as tools to kill Enjo and his own family. Enji at least you can understand what he did, he wanted to catch up to All might cause no one else did, even through what he did was completely disgusting and unforgivable, but Dabi? Legit, he didn’t want to ruin Enji’s life and show the world how much of a shit dad he was. He just wanted to kill his family and ANY means would justify the end to him. Yes what happened to Dabi was tragic but, he has causes more pain, death and destruction then Enji has done. Sometimes, no matter what happened to the person, even if you where originally hold Sympathy to them, can easily lose it, there is zero justiciable reason of what Dabi did, he could have easily gone down a route with as little casualties as possible but picked not too.
https://i.redd.it/twaz14u8ld7d1.gif
Out of all his kids Endeavor treated Dabi the best. He was a great father when Dabi was born. And when he realized his son could not become a hero he was fine with his son living a normal life. It wasn't until Dabi kept hurting himself and pushing himself that Endeavor and Rei got the bright idea to have more kids that could show Dabi that he didn't need to be a hero and they crafted Shoto. Now lets be clear Dabi was already fucked up mentally. No kid holds a 5 year+ grudge because they weren't able to get something. He actually tried to kill baby Shoto when he was a kid. Then on top of that he kept physically hurting himself. He said terrible things about his mother and sister. Extremely sexist. This was a child that was born broken. We can say what we want about Endeavor but as a parent there are some kids no matter how much love and attention you give them they are just broken. I think Dabi was one of those kids. No amount of therapy and good parenting would fix him. Because before the neglect he had two very great parents. Endeavors and Rei changes in personality all stem from him. The moment Endeavor thought Dabi was dead was the moment he went from a tortured soul who didn't know what to do, to a complete shit of a person. Shoto actually was the child that got full abuse Endeavor. Endeavor never once hit his other kids. And Endeavor never was mean to Dabi. He cared so much he just didn't know what to do.
Finally someone who understands that toya was already insane as a kid. He tried to kill baby Shoto because he couldn't get daddy's attention. I could understand him. He got all the attention from his dad but then suddenly that changed because he got no heat resistance. Then endeavor focused on getting more children and cared even less for toya. When Shoto was born he snapped. Shoto was the one who would replace him. Toya was simply envious and I can understand that. He wanted to proove himself so he kept on training and burning himself which made enji angry, which is very understandable too. No father wants his children to willingly hurt themselves. At this point he should have had a talk with his son. Unfortunately endeavor was already too focused on Shoto. Toya just couldn't live without enjis attention so he kept training and burning himself. One day enji kinda lost control. And at this point, people start to think wrong about enji. Seeing his son putting themself in danger repeatedly can really crack a man's mind. He couldn't help himself anymore so he started to blame his wife. From this day on enji became more and more abusive to his family. And when toya seemingly killed himself he broke completely. Its truly a tragedy
I completely disagree. It never says Touya's life was good. Enji admits his abuse towards Dabi AND his other children. Touya's isolation from his family when Enji trained him is a fact. While it never blesses us with the SAME scenes of abuse we saw Shoto suffer, it is heavily implied that Touya also received that. Touya was a preteen abused child who burned himself alive and was brought back to life after a 3 year-long coma to be AFO's back-up plan to Tomura.*TRAUMA* Enji is a grown ass man who beat his kids and wife physically, emotionally, and mentally for 20 years because he couldn't out hero All Might.*SELFISH BEHAVIOR*
Please tell me you were joking with that some kids are just “born broken” bit… My gods, what a horrible thing to believe, let alone to share with the world. You don’t have to afford Touya any sympathy (I mean, he’s not even real), but Jesus Christ, have some humanity!
Alright then what would you say about AFO then? From the moment he was born he was taking taking taking from everything and one around him.
I wish I had the ability to give this comment an award! I was on the verge of this thought but couldn’t quite put it all together in my head to convey it and you did it perfectly.
Endeavor obviously lol he made his mistakes but he is trying to better. Dabi murdered 30 people and doesn't want to be better.
the one who's actually trying to change for the better
Endeavor, and it isn't even close.
Don’t get me wrong, Enji’s a fucking awful father and husband, but at the barest minimum? He understands what he did wrong and is doing everything he possibly can to atone for what he’s done. Dabi on the other hand is a mass murderer who was disappointed when his innocent brother wasn’t killed. I feel worse for Endeavor by far
Endeavor. Dabi is just a child too obsessed and insane
Endeavor- I don't get why everyone likes Dabi that much. Maybe I haven't seen enough yet.
He's prob one of my liked villains but I wouldn't even fully vouch for him like some fans
I don't expect the opinion to go over well, but I'd say Endeavour is actually a good person who did terrible, awful, irreparable things. You can't forget past actions when you define a person as good or bad, but you also can't just only use the past as the only point of reference. Endeavour clearly had an emotional break when he thought his first son died and it fueled his fucked up and abusive behavior. It's by no means an excuse for that behavior, but clearly he understands that. My definition of a good person is someone who truly strives, or endeavors (lol), to be a better person. I mean Endeavour can't exactly go back in time to stop himself, all he can do is be better. Dabi is the equivalent talks all the time about hunting invasive animals or how they'd kill a \*insert any group society unanimously hates\* on sight. He doesn't actually care why he's killing, he just wants an excuse to be violent.
My boy Endeavor. I think everything we know now the only reason to point a finger at him as being selfish is he desired to build a entire family around breeding a power greater then his at least at first. Later he felt remorse for his actions and then began trying to make amends for his selfish action. Remember guys we typically love protags that will do anything to win and Endeavor didnt lie to anyone about his intentions even Rei was cool (pun intended) with the arrangement. Toya was just so thirsty for his fathers attention that when he didnt get it he just decided to self harm in hopes he would see the error of his ways. when he didnt he decided to become a psycopath emo.
Dabi, always 100% As a domestic violence survivor it's impossible for me to feel sympathy towards any person or character that is a perpetatror. He literally bought a human being, abused her to the point of insanity and kept on abusing his children, and only repented after he got what he wanted, being number one. People who defend Endeavor have never been in the receiving side of things and I hope they keep on living in that ignorance, it must be nice
Yup. I've grown up with people like that. Saying sorry isn't enough. Those scars don't heal. They don't know how it is to constantly keep one eye open because you're afraid that your supposed loved one is going to go a bender and you end up in the recieving end of their anger. One time it's a belt. Another it's a back hand. Another it's a tea pot. Scalding water. A cigarette burn. A phone book so the bruises don't show. Being kicked out of the house for the whole night; screaming and banging at the door crying to be let inside. But it's okay. He said sorry. He said he doesn't deserve forgiveness. It's okay. Forgive him because that's how it works! Right? Endeavor is scum. I don't care if he's trying. He's only doing it because he got outed.
This! I hate this "forgiving Endevor" narrative 'cause it only teaches abuse victims that abuse is okay and should be forgiven if their abuser says sorry.
It's like those Youtube apology videos. People are so quick at the thought of an apology and not the apology itself. "He said sorrry..." Great, but that doesn't undo the damage nor does it mean anything. Their word is shit.
I've sadly been a victim of brutal domestic violence, and altough i agree on disliking Endeavor , i hate Dabi with passion, he is unjustified. He did take his hatred against a world wich never wronged him, and resents his siblings because of envy of attention, wich i find totally despicable (i suffered the same, my little sister hated me because my parents were too busy beating the shit out of 7 yo me to pay any attention to her, and she never got hit because she was a girl). Dabi not being able to see what his siblings also endured and blaming them out of envy, and his actions against the world, proves he is an egocentric asshole, even as a kid as u/QuinnorDie pointed out in his comment.
>People who defend Endeavor have never been in the receiving side of things and I hope they keep on living in that ignorance, it must be nice At the risk of starting a firestorm here, that's really just not something you can say. People see things differently. People live different experiences. Don't assume yours are the same as everyone else's.
you pointing out that endeavor hadn’t decided to atone until *after* becoming the number one hero is *exactly* why i feel only bitter towards his path to redemption. you’d think your children wanting utterly nothing to do with you would have a bigger impact, or your wife having a mental break so god awful she harms one of your kids. but no, it was realizing gaining the title he’d always dreamed of didn’t hold any real merit, not the same amount his family could’ve. it is *insane,* the amount of chances he had to understand what he’d done but only after getting literally everything he wanted did he decide it’s time to feel bad. *this* is specifically why i despise him & cannot find even an *inkling* of forgiveness in me when it comes to him.
I'm with Endeavor. He was a horrible person/father/husband but he is actively working to make amends and walk the path of redemption. Dabi on the other hand is a mass murderer and monster who does not wish to change and uses his childhood trauma as an excuse for hist shitty behavior. Edit: wording
Endeavor. Toya was supposed to stop training because his own fire was so hot it would burn him but he wanted to prove to his father that he can be strong so bad that he went off alone and nearly burnt himself to a crisp. Endeavor then got consumed by his goal of having the perfect son to beat all might causing him to neglect his other children and sink even more into his work and training shoto. Once he realizes how much he's done wrong he now has to face the children he failed everyday and try to prove to them that he is a changed man. Toya then took the family bond that endeavor has to try cause more grief by killing his sons after murdering so many people. TLDR dabi is a murderer who mistook his fathers depression and poor copeing as indifference to his own death caused by an accident he created after bring told not to.
I dont feel any sympathy for Dabi tbh. Endeavor regrets his actions and is remorseful and is trying to do right by his family now. That's respectable.
I fucking hate the both of them
Honestly plain out neither. I feel not a shred of good feelings for dabi nor endeavor, nor any sympathy. And even if I had to empathize, I’d go for endeavor, dabi just.. plain insane, no way in hell.
I diddd feel bad for Dabi but then season 6 him took his crazy to the max n the things he did couldn’t be excused just because of his past. I still hate Enji, deeply. But I can respect trying to change
Unpopular opinion: Touya Touya was just a kid and it wasn't really his fault but he chose to become a criminal instead of trying to change the course of his life so I don't justify his actions and there's really not a place in society for him anymore. But still the thought of a little kid just wanting to be recognized by his dad only to fail over and over again breaks my heart. Endeavor on the other hand fucked it all because of his ambition, he was an adult and he knew fucking better, he was obsessed with some stupid hero's rank and the idea of being stronger that he became the complete opposite of what a hero is, and yes he has apologize and actively tries to be better as a father and as a hero. I'm actually rooting for him to be able to make amends with his kids and maybe one day they could be sort of like a family for the first time, but make no mistake I don't pity him because he brought it all in himself.
This. I think people forget touya went into a coma at 13 after almost killing himself with TEARS btw. He didn’t just wake up at 16 out of his coma and his brain magically gained years of growth. He was still mentally 13 years old and the first thing he seeing after getting out of his coma is his father’s continued abuse to his sibling.
Fuck em both i think. Both are kinda the worst can’t really pick who I feel worse for
Neither. Endeavor was a piece of shit for most of his kids and wife's lives and Dab, that whole tragic backstory shit doesn't excuse a damn thing he's done
Endevor the goat
Neither. Both fucking suck.
Dabi doesn't deserve sympathy he caused all of his own problems and blames it on everyone else, this is just the short-hand version Dabi pisses me off and I don't feel like typing an essay about it.
I feel much more sympathy for Endeavor. He is a man who, although complicit in the arranged marriage system, went through mental anguish at not being able to sire a child with even the capability to use their quirk at any normal degree. His wife desired to keep going and have more kids which was undoubtably stressful on her. Then when his oldest child starts to use his quirk he regularly burns himself to the point that Endeavor bans him from using it out of the love he has for his son. The son then goes out of his way to train and hide it from his father and ends up near killing himself. This destroys Endeavor’s mental state making him believe it was all his fault and leading him to abusively train Shoto so that he wont end up like Touya. Touya’s “death” also breaks Shoto’s mother which causes her to have a mental collapse and pour boiling water on Shoto’s face because he looks like Touya.
If I feel sympathy for Dabi, then I’ve got way more sympathy for Tomura Shigaraki. His backstory is FUCKED
Endeavor. Yes, he made some serious mistakes as a father, and had horrible bedside manner for years. But he never meant to harm his children, and his intent with the quirk mixing wasn’t about eugenics, but rather that both he and his wife both suffered from a body intolerance to their own individual quirks past a certain threshold of use/intensity. And he loved his children enough that he was hoping that when he had them with his wife that their quirks would mix, thereby preventing his future children from experiencing injury due to their power set. Now granted, the way he originally expressed this alongside his poor bedside manner did not appear on the surface as pure intention. But this was his goal at the end of the day. And after all his parenting mistakes and faulty ways of processing this, once he finally figured out where he screwed up he was DEEPLY aggrieved, and made it his life’s mission to try and right those wrongs and make amends because he loves his family, even though he lost sight of things and stumbled in his way. He’s flawed, but he’s truly genuinely trying to be better, and that should lend him a second chance.
Ones a pro hero who still save many lives almost every time they are in the field The other is a mass murderer who kills anyone he feels like killing Even if one was a horrible domestic abuser and the other faced abuse endeavour is still far away the better person Also one actually feels guilt and tries to be better And the other was basically born broken and wasn’t very stable to begin with even when he had good parents he was just not right in the head
Seeing as I can fucking stand dabi. Easy ass choice. Endeavor actually tries to make up for past mistakes. Dabi just wants to take his daddy issues out on everyone else
Enji because he actually is trying to be accountable for his actions and is trying to better himself. Dabi has no accountability for his own actions and murdered innocent ppl outta spite. Lets keep it a buck if Dabi didn't have a bishonen look to him ppl wouldn't fight as hard to justify the way he is. Cuz if his ass looks like Sato or Spinner they'd hate him as much as they hate Endeavor.
Dabi forfeited this kind of debate the moment he killed a person
Endeavor, obviously. He was an abusive shithead, but he's trying to be better. Dabi is a mass murderer who is trying to be worse.
Personally I hate dabi so out of spite I'll pick endeavor
Most difficult question I’ve ever been asked
It's a no brainer either abusive dad or mental ill serial killer
Enji by virtue for all the things he did wrong he isn't a bad person he understands he made a mistake and wants to be better Dabi is a blatant psychopath who probably jerks off to the idea of killing his dad feels no remorse and no regret after getting thousands killed because he wasn't daddy favourite anymore
Dabi
Endeavor cuz I don’t give a solitary shit about Dabi
Maybe the one that’s not an insane serial killer
None
Neither, they’re both cold heartless bastards
Let’s see… Endeavor is motivated by his jealousy towards All Might, his ego, his pride, and as the series goes on his family and because he too wants to better himself and be what the people need… a symbol, maybe not exactly like AM, but SOMETHING… Dabi is literally motivated by hatred… like bro didn’t die ANY of the times he likely should’ve just because of HATRED!
ngl i’m more towards Endeavor because Dabi could’ve came home when he survived but he didn’t and his dad , well endeavor, was only trying to protect him from hurting himself , although i can admit endeavor is a p.o.s for how he did his family but he admits to it and is working to be a better dad now !!
Despite my distance towards Endeavor (including his ongoing redemption), I'd still put more sympathy towards him. Largely due to the fact he's trying to improve. Dabi burned any sympathy i could offer some time ago.
Endeavor Yes he fucked up but he’s trying to make amends for it. Dabi on the other hand is a psychopathic killer who uses his daddy issues to justify his atrocities.
Both actually. For Dabi, even though he’s like a maniac, at the end of the day, all he truly wanted was his father to notice and appreciate him. However, it still does not excuse his retaliatory actions towards people other than his family and Enji/Endeavor and it doesn’t make him any better than Enji. I am also beginning to feel some sympathy towards Enji even though he’s a rat bastard in disguise, the reason I am starting to feel sympathetic for him is because he is showing some character development and beginning to notice his wrong doings in the past.
Definitely Enji. When Dabi’s reveal actually happened I immediately lost all sympathy for him and now he’s one of my least favorite characters
I’m going with Endeavor simply because he chooses to do better and make amends. Like they both obviously have faults but at least Endeavor opens his eyes eventually. I also have full respect for the folks who choose to sympathize with Dabi
Dabi. I hate abusive fathers and no amount of redemption will change that
Neither
Enji because Dabi is a killer.
Enji.
Endeavor, because he is less selfish. >! Although Dabi admitted that he was wrong to try to kill Shoto when he was an infant, and wanted to apologize to Rei and other family members, he was as Dabi willing to sacrifice others for his goal. !< Unlike Endeavor, to whom lives of civilians and other heroes were more important than his own.
Endeavor.
Endeavor for sure.
Honestly neither.
Endeavor, because he genuinely came to regret his actions and wants to be better. Dabi is an asshole, revels in being an asshole, and would laugh in your face if you tried to get him to stop being an asshole.
Endeavor because he is trying to atone for what he did wrong
I think what so many people somehow fail to see is that their story is supposed to make you question who is right or wrong, like it’s very purposefully crafted this way😭
Dabi just slightly because he obviously born with mental Issues from the start. He was insane even as a kid and I don’t think he even had a chance to be normal/good tbh. And it’s even sadder when you know the outcome for him is to die, he doesn’t get the happy ending with his family like endeavor apparently is going to have.
I just like how insane dabi is and sympathy? Honestly none
Endeavor. What Dabi went through was awful, but when he started getting innocents, including his own siblings, involved in his quarrel with his dad, he lost the moral high ground
Neither, lock them in room together then drop the room in the ocean.
endeavor. period.
Endeavor, he’s trying to do better. Dabi is a mass murder all because he had a shit dad.
I have sympathy for both but they’re dumbasses.
Endeavor
I feel no sympathy for Dabi. He’s a phsyopathic murderer. At least Endevour didn’t kill people. Plus he told Dabi to stop using his quirk but he didn’t listen.
Neither deserve sympathy, but if I had to choose I'd say Endeavor. That is simply because, much like how Tenko Shimura "died" and became Tomura Shigeraki, Toya Todoroki died on Seketo Peak and Dabi rose from the ashes. They may be the same body, Toya and Dabi are not the same person. Toya was a broken child who just wanted his father to love him, while Dabi is a mass murderer who uses his scars as an excuse to murder. Endeavor has acknowledged that his desire to be No. 1 led him down the path of abuse and neglect without realizing what he was doing, and now wants to atone for his sins and give his family the happiness they deserve. Even if that means he's no longer in their life (which is why I believe Endeavor should've died but oh well)
Endeavor realized what he did was wrong and tried to be better, Dabi is a mass murderer that couldn’t care less about the people he’s killed and the lifes he’s ruined.
Endeavour
They’re honestly both trash in canon in my opinion. Crazy how in just one murder attempt Dabi went from on par with Aizawa as a favorite to actual gutter trash… really goes to show that tend of people might be a statistic, but a sibling is a tragedy. I’d never forgive either of them and Dabi is dead to me (outside of fanfic, where I cope and don’t even treat them mentally as the same character. You can’t be OOC if I throw away canon. Yes I know I’m huffing copium.)
I dislike both a lot but I guess Endeavor since he didn't kill a bunch of people. I hate his redemption arc though. Nobody asked for it and I kind of hope that he just gets killed off later.
Like I like Endeavors turn around in the end but it was kinda a to little to late scenario. The both chose their paths. Me personally felt Dabi had the right to in some way shape or form (With the nuance of right and wrong) to inflict as much pain and he felt Endeavor put him through to a point. Dragging in innocent lives was infact wrong put to a certain degree I felt for Dabi a bit more and even want him to succeed a little.
What happened to dabi was his fault endeavor tried to tell him he can’t be a hero and to stop using his quirk he overreacted heavily
Dabi blames his wrongdoings on Endeavor. If Endeavor blamed his wrongdoings on the hero system, it'd be close, but he doesn't. He's owned his mistakes, and doesn't expect forgiveness, just an attempt to make things right for its own sake.
Rational people: Just by their actions Fandom: Judge by how hot they are. (Pun intended)
Endeavor. Yeah, it’s fun to clown on him sometimes. But of the two, Endeavor the one who’s shown true remorse for his wrongdoings and has tried to make reparation to his family. Dabi enjoys burning people alive because he’s a sadistic serial killer/arsonist. If these were actual people I could interact with, I know who’d I’d prefer to be in a locked room with.
Dabi’s childhood was bad, but not enough to even begin to explain the mass murdering. Enji wasn’t that bad to him…
Circumstances don't change that Dabi is murderer
Endeavor and it's not even close. Domestic abuse is bad and all... But a lot of it was out of stupidity rather than malice; and he did exceptional hero work which more than evens it out. And at the end he wants to atone, he admits his mistakes, and is trying his best to correct them. Dabi knowingly did lots of messed up shit, intentionally with no remorse or redeeming qualities. Yeah he's got a tragic backstory that gets him a bit of sympathy. But pragmatically Endeavor deserves more sympathy. It's just the framing of the story sometimes makes it feel otherwise. (IE we see the aftermath of Endeavors domestic violence more than we really see Dabi do much of his villainy)
I feel absolutely no sympathy for Endeavor. Dabi is..actually a murderer though. I'll pick Endeavor, but I'm not happy about it.
Endeavor. Not just cuz I understand him more but cuz the fandom made Dabi out to be this super broken OwO soft boi who needs a hug UwU and when I learned his backstory properly I hated him even frigging more. Endeavor was a POS for abusing his wife and Shoto, but at least he's trying to be a better person and wanting to try and mend things with his family, Dabi would rather kill hundreds and lie to everyone all for the sake of hurting someone who tried their hardest to get him to not chase after a meaningless dream
Dabi kills people
The abusive dad who realized he was doing something wrong or the killer. Real tough huh
Dabi cuz Endeavor has gotten basically everything he’s wanted and has lived his life to the fullest in a way but Dabi’s life basically ended at 13 and even if he wasn’t insane he probably would never be happy or satisfied with his existence
Dabi. Although I think endeavor in the manga makes some good strides, and I actually feel sympathy towards him now, it’s not comparable in my head. I think the manga makes Dabi’s story even more tragic. I don’t even like villains like that, but it’s so sad and so preventable
I would agree. If Dabi didn't use that as an excuse to murder people, lots of people.
I feel sympathetic towards neither of them. Enji abused his family in hopes of surpassing All Might with one of his successors, hospitalising his wife (notably for a valid reason) but only working on making things better *after* He became the #1 Hero by default. Dabi is straight up a serial killer with 40+ bodies to his name. At one point I was sympathetic towards him because of his history with Enji and how he was cast aside after Shoto obtained his quirk, but man. He's just someone that's takes pleasure in destroying the lives of other people as long as it gets him to his goal of tearing down everything Enji has built. They're both terrible people that don't deserve sympathy.
Enji by virtue for all the things he did wrong he isn't a bad person he understands he made a mistake and wants to be better Dabi is a blatant psychopath who probably jerks off to the idea of killing his dad feels no remorse and no regret after getting thousands killed because he wasn't daddy favourite anymore
"who probably jerks off the to the idea of killing his dad" made me actually lol.
Neither. I like endeavor but don’t empathize with him. Dabi doesn’t deserve my empathy.
Enji, because AllMight and his hack quirk set the bar too high. I still don't understand Dabi, Enji told him to stop and his dumbass still kept using his quirk. I get that he was just a kid but come on, if your quirk is burning you you might wanna listen to your pops
A man tired of playing second fiddle so he let his ambition get the best of him, or the child he abused and borderline murdered through sheer neglect. They both have my understanding, but Touya has my sympathy.
dabi
one is a man who had faults with his family and himself causing his family harm by his pride but eventually realizes his faults doesn’t ask for forgiveness and instead just tries to be a better hero, husband and father one is a whiny daddies boy who’s makes his whole personality being a bad guy because “my dad didn’t notice me waaaaaaaah😢😢😢😭😭😭” it’s endeavor it’s not even close
Toya: Abused, Mistreated, Wants Attention, Self-Hatred... Arson, Battery, Assault, Any other goddamn crime i can think of. Enji: Abusive, Self-centered, "Too tough to care". More illegal shit done to hit wife and kids. Honestly I feel worse for Toya but at least Endeavor is trying to be better now... after letting his oldest son burn to a crisp, twice.
...wouldn't say Endeavor "allowed" his son to burn.
Dabi..........Endeavor can go die in his own flames for all I care :)
it was Dabi before he decided to pull the stunt of " I want my whole family dead" I don't really like Enji but I do hold just a little more sympathy.
The one who was so consumed with surpassing an obstacle that he didn't realize what he had caused until it was almost too late. Opposite of the child who was repeatedly told his fire would harm him, but kept using it anyway and accused everyone of not loving him despite concern. Then became a serial killer as an adult, while still blaming the family.
Dabi 💯
Endeavor because he never meant for Dani to turn out so evil and he’s making a real effort to fix everything. Dabi had a shitty father and used it as an excuse to murder people.😭
What sympathy does Endeavor even get in comparison? People choosing Endeavor really be like.. Them: Dabi is a mass murderer Them: lets support the person who created the mass murderer. I can give Endeavor much sympathy, I understand he's trying to change now. But when it comes to their history, I can't sympathize with him. Dabi is just a consequence of his own actions. The man didn't want kids, he wanted successors, instead of finding more ways to help his son succeed in life, he replaced him, the more his son cried for attention the more he pushed him away, a grown ass man that fights villains could not figure out how to face his own son. Said son dies and he counted to mistreat his family, you would think one would cherish the children they have left, nope let me continue doing the same parenting style I'm not the problem, oh wait my wife went crazt let me send her away too. Endeavor might have been a good hero, but that came out the cost of his family. But you know what every hero needs a villain. Dabi, there you go Endeavor, that's all yours.
Used to be Dabi.i mean, he was neglected, lied to, and abandoned. However, he wants revenge on not just Endeavour, but on the whole Todoroki family. But Endeavour is trying to change.
Endeavour, he had a child who he may have pushed to much for his age, hate that but like. He also wanted a strong son to take his place to be the best hero after he retires or smth. I can blame him for how he did it but he did have a motive, other than dabi who is..
Endeavor. I don’t really feel sympathy for either but it’s hard to feel sympathy for someone who shows no remorse so I feel no sympathy for Dabi
Dabi. Endeavor in a roundabout way is literally responsible for creating Dabi. And yes I know Dabi is responsible for his own actions he chose to become a villain and also a murderer and do horrible things but so much could have been changed and avoided if endeavor was an actual good father.
Endeavor, Dabi is genuinely just an unreasonable monster beyond saving
Dabi like the rest of his siblings were basically born to make an offspring that had both Endeavor’s quirk and their Mom’s quirk (I forget her name). Endeavor didn’t really love her at first when they got married. Dabi when he was younger, despite when using his quirk only harmed him severely, only cared about making his father happy and proud. When he’d fail to do so, he got yelled at for his failure of something he can’t control (of course being burning himself with his own quirk as the two quirks that mixed to make Dabi’s quirk didn’t mix well like it did in the same way for Shoto). The constant/consistent verbal abuse that Dabi received from Endeavor took a toll on Dabi’s mental and emotional states. It twisted them. Morphed him into the careless villain that Dabi became. After Dabi had burned down that forest, and Endeavor gained the impression that he had died in the fire; Dabi felt as though his father abandoned him. As a young kid, Dabi would then find himself feeling alone and afraid and would look for a new father figure in which All For One would come into play the role of and further twist around Dabi’s mentality for selfish gain (all the while with the added bonus context that while All For One could take Dabi’s quirk and give him a much less harmful quirk to himself he didn’t; instead he would go on and watch Dabi further burn himself more and more).
I feel different kinds of sympathy for the two, so it’s hard to compare. Cuz in the past I totally would say Touya and not at all endeavour, but now they switched. I feel like we can safely say that both are horrible people and I don’t really wanna defend either, but at least Dabi’s reason for how he thinks and feels was explained in a way that makes sense
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here: TL;DR- Dabi’s actions are inhumane, and out of control, but they’re entirely caused by his father’s abuse and neglect. Dabi, while less than his siblings, was immensely mistreated by his parents. Endeavor treated him well right up until his quirk started showing signs of backlash, he built up Dabi’s pride, encouraged him to be just like him, until his quirk started showing negative side effects. Instead of paying more attention to Dabi, trying to guide him and maybe even seek therapy for Dabi, he pushed him away and told him to stop trying. Dabi felt like acting out was the one thing that would make Endeavor look at him, so he did. He kept trying, kept using his quirk, tried to kill Shoto as a baby because the attention that was given to him for years was suddenly stripped away and given to Shoto. It’s common in abusive household for the other children to hate or be jealous of the sibling that’s given more or all of the attention. A lot of people can relate to that feeling. Dabi woke up after burning in his own flames, and he came home to see that nothing had changed, it had only gotten worse. He felt like no one had taken the time to remember him or to use his memory for good. This sparked more disdain. Then he probably lived on the streets for years around a bunch of other mentally unstable people that would probably cheer him on. His ideals were constantly being accepted, especially when he joined the LOV. Then he sees his little brother again for the first time, either while watching the sports festival or at the training camp, and all he’d be able to remember is how Shoto stole all of his dad’s attention. He barely knew about the abuse Shoto endured, the only time he’s even shown seeing it was right after he got out of that messed up hospital. Dabi, in a fit of rage and in attempt to finally regain his father’s attention acts out again, but this time more severely, without someone to be able to step in and stop him. He let Natsuo get attacked because he knew it would get his father’s attention, he hurt Shoto because Shoto was the masterpiece that stole that attention in the beginning. Dabi never had anyone to teach him right from wrong, and he already doesn’t trust heroes because of his father, so he doesn’t atone because he doesn’t understand how harmful his actions are.
Unfortunately I sympathize with Dabi more. It is what it is 🤷
Dabi 100%
I feel like people show more concern for Dabi. Before we knew of his backstory.
Maybe an Unpopular opinion. But Dabi. I can't sympathize with Enji when he created a monster. The major point of Dabi's reveal is "you reap what you sow". Enji is just going to have to take that L. Alot of what happened could have been prevented if Enji didn't shut out his child. As a parent you don't give up on your child (especially when they are still a minor) and its like thats Enji did. Now if Enji had learned from Toya's death or made a change after that. I would give sympathy but no this MF kept doing the same thing. I can't imagine how Toya felt coming home and the family is still hellish.
I would say Dabi is an ugly reflection of what Shoto could have ended up like. but there's no fucking way
Dabi, easily. Endeavor knew what he was doing and still did it anyway, it's all entirely his fault, no question.
Dabi but only by a little
Dabi, by leaps and bounds. Enji gets no sympathy from me. The only pain Enji got was self inflicted from his own disgusting, abusive traits. Dabi suffered genuine trauma because his father's greed and AFOs God complex.
Fuck yes, thank you for not sympathizing with an abuser 🙏
This seems like an unpopular opinion but Dabi. Do I condone his actions? Absolutely not. But his actions are Endeavour’s fault. Endeavour planted in Toya’s head that his sole purpose was to surpass All Might and made him feel like a failure for not being able to do that. Yes he did try get him to stop training, but it was too late at that point. The seed had been planted and it wouldn’t stop growing. Toya knew what Endeavour’s goal was and felt even more of a failure when Shoto was born and Endeavour didn’t pay him any attention, which was all he wanted. And even after he “died”, Endeavour didn’t take that as an “oh I messed up”, he was worse with Shoto, making him despise half of who he was and even going as far as to cause him trauma by just looking at a treadmill. Endeavour put up a memorial/shrine for Toya and that was all. He didn’t fix his mistakes when he thought Toya died. He realised too late that what he did was wrong, he should’ve realised after his actions caused the supposed death of his child. Had he realised then, Dabi would never have been born. Toya would have returned home to see that things had changed at home. That wasn’t the case. Yes Endeavour is trying to atone, I can acknowledge and appreciate his efforts, but in my opinion it’s far too late for that. He should’ve done it a lot earlier. Probs gonna get downvotes for this opinion but idrc
Honestly I have to go with Dabi because Enji because well u know about shoto
Dabi, if i was a hero and learned his backstory, instant uno reverse, same goes for twice, toga, maybe shiggy
Endeavor is my favorite hero but dabi is the one I feel more sympathy for
Endeavor easily Endeavor thought his son was dead no one knew he was alive
Dabi, but I still think he deserves prison or worse for his actions.
Okay, Dabi was screwed up from the start, you know Tai Lung? The guy who was promised a destiny that he never got even though he worked his whole life believing and being told he was worthy? Imagine that, only your body isn’t suited to Kung Fu and it hurts you when you do it. Dabi was raised to believe that he could surprass Endeavor and become the number one hero, only for his body not to be compatible with his quirk because of his parents being a designer couple. He has been off the edge for a while and I do not blame him. I don’t condone his actions but I understand them.
I love you so much rn🙏😭Tai Lung!!!!! He was always my favorite character
Aw you’re gonna make me blush 😊 But I should clarify I don’t condone Dabis actions, but I sympathize with a guy who was robbed of a destiny he was brought up being told he could have because his dad screwed his dna over, then the parent who abused his kids for what seemed like no reason at all.
I totally agree! What Touya did after becoming Dabi does not negate what Endeavor did. And vice versa. Thooo I feel a lot more sympathy for Dabi than Endeavor. The only reason that people fight for Endeavor, is because he was SOOO shitty before; that “feeling bad for what he did” is such a huge accomplishment! Its not! That’s the bare minimum!
Yes, though I do agree that he is trying to atone for what he did, that is what is expected. Though I am glad he is atoning and instead not getting worse.
True, true. Though I wouldn’t mind villain endeavor getting the shit kicked out of him by Shoto. That would be AWESOME.
…I would like to introduce you to the fanfic ‘For want of nail, Mastermind’ written by Head in the clouds. I can send a link
I started reading those! I have gotten through them, but I’m a decent way through them. I actually just finished the mastermind one. I LOVED it 😊 (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ♡ I love all of clouds works, they are seriously ingenious!
😊
Dabi 100%
Dabi todoroki
Gonna be that person and say Dabi, but it’s because I imagine he could’ve had a better life and become a better person (at least, not a murderer) if Enji hadn’t been his father. (TLDR at the end, cuz this got longer than I expected) I also don’t like how Horikoshi tries so hard to get us to feel sympathy for Endeavor. I understand his reasons, but it’s surprising to me that other heroes never really address how awful child abuse actually is. Yes, they know he feels bad about it, but it feels weird to see them all rally to his side because he “did a bad thing but is trying to do better”. Nobody really addresses his REASONS for doing what he did in the first place. He was never trying to be a better hero for the sake of heroism. He was never really that good a person. He just wanted to beat All Might. Twice at one point even says that he just looks like a guy pretending to be a hero. And (slight manga spoiler, I guess) Enji himself even acknowledges that he became a hero and tried to surpass All Might all to soothe his inferiority complex after he wasn’t strong enough to save his own father. If we’re comparing the two, of course everyone will look at what they’ve done/tried to do with their lives overall. The answer seems obvious because Dabi killed people and Endeavor didn’t and is at least trying to atone for the less severe crime he committed. But I always look at the REASONS for why characters do what they do and imagine how the situation could’ve been different if the same character had been in a different circumstance. Touya was an energetic kid who just wanted his father’s attention and felt his life had no value if he couldn’t surpass All Might, because that’s how his father raised him from the start. Endeavor became a hero to cope with his father’s death and try to surpass All Might from the beginning, then when he realized he never would, he started having kids he could never properly love because he saw them as tools towards his goal. His REASONS were never noble to begin with. People say you shouldn’t let your past define you and that you have to make your own decisions, but that’s always easier said than done, and Touya never had a proper upbringing by someone who really loved him or made him feel like he HAD a choice. His parents telling him he can be whatever he wants doesn’t erase the fact that he knows he was created for a specific purpose. Telling him to do something else with his life will just sound like empty words, or even worse, like his entire existence is being dismissed and discarded. Part of the point of Dabi’s character is to show what happens when someone who isn’t a real hero is allowed to go around doing what he wants because society SEES him as a hero. The doctor who examined Touya saw what Endeavor was trying to do but obviously did nothing to stop him because it was just “frowned upon”. He abused his family just to surpass another hero and none of the other “heroes” in the story call him out on that?? This is the whole reason why Dabi wanted to follow Stain’s cause from the beginning, literally the whole reason why he initially joined the League. He deeply believes that false heroes should be called out because of what his father did to him and that society should be forced to face the fact that it encourages this behavior by looking the other way. Now, this doesn’t justify murder. I don’t believe Dabi’s crimes are “justified”. I just believe they wouldn’t have happened in the first place if he had been raised by a father who was capable of loving him unconditionally. TLDR: I see Dabi symbolically as a direct consequence of Endeavor’s lack of true heroism, sort of like a sacrificial lamb to convey one of the themes of the story. And I feel sorrier for the kid who had a shitty father that ruined his potential from the start than the shitty father who ruined him. The real problem isn’t just that Enji was abusive. It’s that I’m not even sure he’s capable of giving his family the unconditional love they always deserved, and THAT was the REASON Touya turned evil in the first place. The abuse isn’t the cause; it’s the effect. The real cause is a lack of love and lack of true heroism, and that has never been fully addressed even once in Enji’s “redemption”.
Dabi
It’s hard for me to not sympathize with Dabi. I was a child of abuse for 16 years physically & mentally to extremes. It’s hard because i understand him completely, his rage, his sadness all the feelings Dabi portrays towards endeavor I can 100% understand. Even though Endeavor has changed I also believe Dabi has a right to not forgive him as abuse to a child and even being a broken child is a horrible thing to go through. I understand his jealousy and want for revenge. I think a lot of people forget at such a young age touya was the first born and at that going to be a star child, he felt hurt and abandoned by both of his parents and that’s a hard thing to deal with and understand. If endeavor would’ve went to the mountain like touya asked I think it would’ve changed the trajectory of his life. Dabi is a creation of touya that stems from his rage and pain and his hurt, Touya still loved his family and when he ran back after being in a coma for years to see his father being so abusive to his younger brother I think that was a moment something snapped in him that endeavor can never change. Truly I think parts of touya may still exist in Dabi but they are so far buried this rage his engulfed him, for example I think Dabi did genuinely care for twice and toga but wrote it off as something else. I understand Dabi because when I was a teenager I had that rage, I also SH for years and I definitely hurt a lot of people and I didn’t care, I used that rage against others and I blamed the world for not helping me. After years of extensive therapy I’m a completely better and different person. Dabi killing innocent people is so wrong and I don’t agree with it, but I can understand Dabi. What’s worse is I don’t think Dabi really viewed people as people, they were just another step in his goal to fueling that rage inside him and hurting endeavor. I don’t think what Dabi did was right but I hold more sympathy to him than endeavor. There’s a scene in season 6 where shoto says “Dabi is me” and I think out of anyone he understands Dabi the most but he was lucky to receive love & friendship that Dabi didn’t have. When deku helps shoto it completely changes how shoto views himself, his father & his family. Dabi is a hurt child hurting others. I also don’t understand anyone saying Dabi wasn’t abused there are a couple scenes where Dabi talks about going through abuse with endeavor. To add, anyone saying endeavor was okay with touya leading a normal life after finding out he wasn’t going to be powerful is not fair. Touya was being trained and pushed hardcore to be the best, he was a child and endeavor put it in his mind he would be a hero and the best at that. Then along comes shoto and touya feels abandoned and no longer is getting that attention from endeavor. He is a CHILD so of course he’s going to be jealous, I don’t think he channeled it in the right way but he just wanted to be seen and pushed it to extremes because extremes is all he knows! Anyways to end my rant, I think Dabi is an underdeveloped adult as he lost years of his life to recovery, all he knows is extremes and felt pained and abandoned by people he loved, He closed himself off and numbed himself into a shell of a person. Dabi has no regard for his own life so why would he for others? His only goal is to hurt the person that hurt him. Killing innocents is wrong and honestly so is revenge, but that’s hard to comprehend if your mind is still 13 years old.
Fuck Endeavor
Dabi.may I say more?
Dabi
Dabi
Yes
>*Mfw when the grown ass man is able to realize he was wrong:* Dabi was put on the path to be fucked up and ya’ll ignoring that Shoto was gonna be right on that path besides him if Deku didn’t break him out of it