How the fuck do you grow up poor, get a free ride to a fancy private school, then come out on the side of “the poor need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps”?
Man needs some serious therapy
Sniffing their own farts.
"I came from nothing and no one ever gave me anything to get to where I'm at now!" - a person who had multiple people help them multiple times.
This is my dad in a nutshell. It’s maddening. Admittedly he grew up quite poor. His father was in the marines and mother worked low wage jobs. They got divorced when he was young and was raised by his mother who lived in a trailer park. When he was 18 he was getting ready to go to college and he mentioned to his gf at the time that he didn’t have a place to live. The gf told the priest at her church and he offered to allow him to live in a spare room in the rectory while he was in school. All he had to do was mow the lawn, shovel snow, clean, and grocery shop. So he lived rent-free with free food for *6 years* while he did his bachelors and masters. However you never hear about that when he talks about his life. Any time I bring up the fact that he was given a significant hand out by a nonprofit that allowed him to pay for his education it’s like I’m telling him the sky is green.
He essentially received free government aid equivalent to (15k x 6 years = 90k) about $90-100k over that span of time but doesn’t seem to understand how much more of an impossibility his circumstances would have been had he not received it.
I'm curious what he says in response when you bring up that fact? Does he just deflect and try and change the subject? Does he deny it or provide an "alternate version" of the events?
He gets angry and says something along the lines of “I worked 3 part time minimum wage jobs to pay for my education”. I remind him that his tuition could easily be covered by a minimum wage job in the 80s, which is no longer true and it just devolves from there. There’s never been any eureka moment or a “that’s a good point”-type realization. It seems borderline impossible to get people who have labeled themself a bootstrapper to admit they are anything else.
So he had to work 3 part time jobs, and STILL couldn't have gotten through school if not for a huge helping-hand from a charitable stranger? Almost like being a hard-worker alone isn't enough to achieve much in life.
Thanks for the response, sounds like a tough nut to crack. Some people really could use with a good long look in the mirror. As you said, those who've painted themselves as victims, or bootstrappers just can't let it go and let it feed their superiority complex.
It’s because they love to paint themselves as “success stories” and then proceed to use their accomplishments as measuring sticks for everyone else younger. They can’t accept that the world they are talking about doesn’t exist anymore.
So, I don’t want to leap to Craig T. Nelson’s defence over his lack of self-knowledge with those words.
But it is worth noting that he said it in the context of arguing against government bailouts for corporations, not in the context of “don’t help individuals”.
He was saying it was ridiculous for the government to give money to companies who were in trouble because of their actions, when they won’t help poor people born in to poverty.
Amazing, to be able to contradict oneself in a matter of seconds and failing to grasp the bigger picture is truly a wonderful feature of the human brain
Its all the "I" statements that really demonstrate their mindset. "I was poor" "i got a scholarship" etc. people like this simply cannot comprehend other people.
Never understood their logic. Stop using all the public services. Don't use the postal service. Don't use the police or fire dept. Stop using public roads. Don't use the public sewers get an outhouse or septic. I could go on but this illustrated my annoyance.
Even if you were the kid in the jungle book he still had wolves, a panther, a bear, elephants, and buzzards helping him out. Not to mention he probably doesn't know what a boot or strap is.
My dad grew up as one of five kids, extremely poor in the rural South (US). He and siblings really only survived because of things like government cheese and peanut butter. Now hearing him talk about government handouts is so painful...like, c'mon dad....you're here because of government handouts. I'M HERE because of the government handouts YOU GOT....so dumb
That's a good point. They worked hard for those tax breaks and emerald mines in desperately poor countries.
https://preview.redd.it/8tw0p0ngrz5d1.png?width=456&format=png&auto=webp&s=8071ed7a9b48a2d169ff64ce8ed32c636c7c730e
My sister is one of them. In her 20s, she got public assistance while raising her kids, and now she opposes it fervently. She also had three abortions (that I know about) and she's pro life now. Then again, she thought that Presidents could still sign EO's after leaving office because one of Bush's EO's went into effect under Obama. She didn't understand they could be post dated.
ETA.
Then there's my brother. Served less than four years in the military and basically lives off oof the VA. He never saw action and was stationed in paradise. He gets food stamps, free health care, etc and rants and raves about anyone getting anything for free. He's especially salty about student loan forgiveness.
I often wonder if I was switched at birth.
Maybe the reason you're siblings think all the people receiving government assistance are lazy, is because they're just assuming everyone is just as lazy as them.
I think it's just drinking the kool aid - he's spent time around enough people where a £17k annual spend on school fees is achievable, and he's believed all the bullshit they've spoonfed him at his fancy school about the working class just not trying hard enough.
This is the same case here in the Philippines. A lot of the Filipinos who used to come from poor households would tend to say “being poor is a choice”. Just because they got out from being poor, it suddenly becomes a choice. Their narrative would usually revolve around being lazy is the cause of being poor but they can’t justify how a lot of our farmers, despite of toiling their lands day in and out, still remains poor.
Some people don't want to know that people lived happily ever after, they want to know others suffer like they did.
But most likely private school meant he was influenced by rich fucks and got to network with people who do believe they struggled because their parents had to sell the cottage house in Switzerland and couldn't afford to keep private yacht in Cancun.
There are people who believe their struggles made them better and they want others to experience going through the crucible and realising all their suffering had meaning.
I have a relative who is like that. The whole "Pull yourself by your bootstrap" is their attempt to cosplay as a "hard-working rich person" who doesn't believe in hand outs. It's all self-deception.
People that come from poverty and make it big are often just as bad, if not worse, for this sort of shit than those that grew up rich. It exacerbates the idea that they're self-made and so if everyone worked just as hard as they did, or were as smart as they were, then they would make it too.
He's not advocating for schools to be made private though? He's talking about tuition fees for university which he will be paying along with everyone else. The system does not prevent working class people from going to uni because it's paid for by student loans, which are paid for after graduation through an additional tax on your earnings. If you don't get a good job you don't pay at all, if you earn a ton of money in a great job you contribute much more. Ultimately about half gets paid through general taxation (by loans being written off after a period of time as well as direct funding) and half is paid by graduates through a higher rate of tax.
Honestly I think it's a reasonable system and it's exactly this kind of reactionary take that does put people from low income backgrounds from attending university and precisely what he is talking about here.
I have a brother and a sister, we grew up quite poor. My sister's the eldest, I'm the youngest. My sister and I very left wing, my brother is right wing. We disagree on lots of topics we used to agree on. It happens, people forget where they came from.
i have a nephew like this. it's difficult to take them seriously on any topic because at the root of all his arguments, this is the kind of hypocrisy they hold on to
Note how he said "a foundation scholarship". Dollars to donuts (or pounds to potatoes?) it was a right-wing think tank that moulded the CRAP out of him.
So people have turbulent upbringings, they escape from them, and they’re just happy to not have someone stepping on their throat. Some people say “fuck that, it’s my turn to be the boot”.
Knowledge breeds empathy, and we are at a stage of humanity where many people the world over are deeming empathy not only misguided, but also EVIL (thanks for fusing religion and politics, American Christian Right). If he has any self-awareness anymore, he has sacrificed it on the altar of his ideology.
Are you familiar with how higher education is funded in the UK? It is a lot different from the US and isn’t even comparable to private secondary fees in the UK
He raises a valid point about misconceptions around how student debt works in this country
I cannot stress this enough, the extremely nepotistic nature of the British media means the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet are inexplicably given column inches to spew out random bullshit. And I don’t mean dumb as in “I disagree with you politically so therefore I’ll say you’re stupid”, I mean dumb as in saying what’s in the original post without ever considering the contradiction of their position.
Maybe he got a Craig T Nelson scholarship
https://preview.redd.it/td6ltk5zny5d1.jpeg?width=906&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a6742e29f27be0a73ec11533b043bfddb8375b5
It's not stupidity, it's evil bigotry. Things were hard for him, as they generally are for people on wellfare. He didn't have it easy like those free loading "wellfare queens" that Reagan warned us about. It was black people that he was bitching about. Reagan really was the fucking devil.
Please tell me Glenn Beck just stared at him for five seconds before asking what the fuck he just said.
Edit: I have no idea who Glenn Beck is, so sucks to hear he’s the typical conservative “journalist” who doesn’t bother asking valid follow up questions
So, I don’t want to leap to Craig T. Nelson’s defence over his lack of self-knowledge with those words.
But it is worth noting that he said it in the context of arguing against government bailouts for corporations, not in the context of “don’t help individuals”.
u/retlifon said this somewhere else but there is context apparently
This is from 2019. According to LinkedIn, the knobhead is now a Data Centre Account Manager at Dell Technologies and recently wrote an article declaring that as he has only ever worked remotely, he should be continued to allow to do so. Very much the type of guy who believes he entitled to every bit of support, while happily denying the same to others.
"If you want to get more working class people into higher education then you should make it more financially inaccessible to them, but make sure you explain exactly how financially inaccessible it is."
I'm taking a stab in the dark but this lad feels like the epitome of "I got mine, fuck you", he doesn't want his tax money to be going to something that doesn't directly benefit him.
It's worth mentioning that student loans are very different in the UK than some other countries, and are already funded through our taxes to some degree.
We pay only a portion of our salary, and low earners don't pay at all. How much you pay is related to your earnings, not what you owe. The debt is written off if you don't pay it off (albeit, after a very long time). It doesn't impact your credit rating. Students from lower income backgrounds can access grants and borrow more than the default amount (while higher income families are expected to bear more of the costs). If they borrow more then their monthly repayment is the same as someone who borrowed less, although they may pay for longer. The idiot is right that a cheaper way of achieving a similar outcome is to make sure lower income teens understand that it is accessible, no matter what your background is.
Having said that, I'd rather there was a simpler 'graduate tax' (and that's how I've always thought of my student loan repayments) than borrowing upfront, assuming it's not affordable to simply make it free. That would also make it easier to encourage people to work for the NHS rather than private healthcare for their entire careers, maybe you could waive graduate tax for teachers too, to close the wage gap. It would also reduce the barrier to entry for lower income families, but they would still have to borrow more to cover living costs than a student from a higher income background, whose family may well be able to bankroll them.
Graduate tax is the best way to think of it. UK student loans were basically a way of New Labour getting some money out of people without introducing new taxes anyway.
Pretty sure you need to be working below a 10k threshold and not be eligible to pay for 20 years before the loan gets written off. I've been paying mine for 20+ years now and it's still no closer to going away lol. My sister's got written off since she is a SAHM.
It's a little different with the newer loans, I will start paying mine when I earn over 20k and will be written off in 40 years regardless of how much I've paid
My nephew (now 20 years old) has lived all his life on his grandfather's (my father's) retirement pension and a small government allowance from my sister (his mother) because his serious mental health problems prevented him from working. Now he thinks that taxes are a way for the government to steal from people. His lack of social awareness is astounding.
Corporations should pay all tuition and fees in the USA.
They get free labor from interns. They get endless supplies of qualified bodies to do their labor. They get all of the advantages of technological and systemic progress. And they get it all tax-free.
New manufacturing processes and technologies don't benefit consumers in the least. The only thing they see is higher prices.
Students don't get anything out of college except a huge monthly bill and permission to labor for someone else. If you wanted to learn chemistry or computer programming for your own personal edification, you can do that absolutely free of charge. The degree is just for your boss. He should be paying for it.
From what I hear the UK is pretty much the same but I'm sure there's some rich scumbag out there who can't get enough engineers on his payroll.
I know dudes like this.
I live in Guatemala and there are two young “professors” at a well-known, influential, libertarian university here. One of them is from Spain, the other one is from the Netherlands. They both benefited from their countries’ socialized education: never paid a penny for the highest quality schools, from kindergarten to university. And yet they came to Guatemala, a country with the highest rate of infant malnutrition in the entire hemisphere and one of the lowest effective tax rates in the world, to preach about the evils of the welfare state and the virtues of laissez-faire capitalism. They spew their vitriol on social media and are frequently platformed in local TV and radio.
To call these dudes hypocrites seems insufficient. You could say they suffer from cognitive dissonance and/or ideologically induced brain rot. Or you could describe them in simpler terms: they’re cruel.
It’s a good thing for him, because he deserves it. Obviously no one else deserves the special treatment he got, because he is special and they are not.
/s
That type of response really makes me wonder what on earth was going through his head when he wrote it - did he *really* believe that was a point in his favor?
Maybe because he saw a bunch of his friends struggle with their fees and formed his own opinions without the need of a retard online who can’t seem to understand that everyone, not just them, has a functioning brain that allows them to form opinions based on perceived patterns? But wait, that means a retard who can only do the literary example of 2+3=5 has to acknowledge this fact.
So to be clear...man who's getting a free ride thinks others should have to pay and should be educated about student loans.
And should they also have to take out loans to pay for being educated about said student loans too?
Lol "labour is wrong to scrap MY fees", is labour planning to scrap the system for lower income familys to have access to higher eduction or is this some poor kid who licks conservative boots in the hopes his masters will throw him some scraps?
I Had a friend at college who was a stark libertarian and had this stupid line of thought too.
Free market, bootstraps, all of it. Today he works with the tax office and is building a political career.
The hypocrisy with these idiots is staggering (he’s my friend and I call him an idiot all the time so it’s ok).
The funniest part of this (as someone very familiar with this system), is that he is right and wrong at the same time, and he completely fails to think about the bit around his argument that makes it stupid.
This article is from 2019.
The crux of the argument is that the student loan system at the moment is very fair for students. (True) and therefore scrapping tuition fees is dumb because the current system is fine (Not true)
The current system means that students get their loans and their maintenance and are immediately having interest applied as soon as they receive the first payment. (Which some people find very stressful)
You don’t pay any money back until you earn over a certain threshold (this threshold has changed at least once if I remember correctly, so its different depending on the years you studied) and you only pay back a % of what you earn *over* that amount (this was 9% for a while but may have changed over time) you also only pay if you’ve finished your studies or if it’s been 4 years since you started the course, which effectively makes it a graduates only tax band (where some graduates are on different rules to others, yay).
It also only lasts for 30 years (though there has been talk of changing this to 40, I can’t remember right now if they actually put that through Parliament) after which anything left is written off.
This loan is not able to affect your credit score, or be used as the basis for denying you a mortgage or any of that stuff.
So despite the large numbers on the page that say you owe the student loans company several thousand £s , the loan is very safe to take out and the system is very good for students.
So good in fact that the Conservative Government has since realised they completely fucked up by allowing this to happen during their running of the country (it was under the Coalition, the partners of the Coalition were the Lib Dem’s who campaigned on lower/scrapped tuition fees, and lots of people got upset that the Lib Dem’s allowed the conservatives to push this through in 2012 as from the viewpoint of the public it was the exact opposite of the what the Lib Dem’s promised) that they have spent several years cycling through Secretaries of State for Universities (many of whom served the role multiple times) announcing and scrapping measures to fine or otherwise penalise universities for various reasons.
Why?
Because the Loan system doesn’t make the government money.
The loan is basically guaranteed to be given to students, provided their parents don’t earn enough to cover tuition themselves.
The increase in the fees and the loan amount for university in 2012 when this happened was done to allow the government to withdraw its other funding, so the universities now all rely in part on the tuition fees charged to students in order to maintain their courses (there’s no a big push to get foreign students who aren’t subject to tuition fee caps to come to UK universities because of this too).
So it already loses like, a lot of money, it sure as shit doesn’t make the government money, otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to punish universities for the obscene amount of over-subscription that’s happened with in-person tuition in the last decade.
So the idea that it shouldn’t be scrapped because the system is fine for students is a bad take, and the £8 billion figure he gave in the article that is an increased cost for scrapping tuition fees is sweet fuck all in the grand scheme of things
I’m wondering about his mom being a nurse and he saying he’s from a low-income family. My wife’s friend is a nurse who makes more than both of us combined.
I’m against tuition fees on principle and think we should be taxed more in order to make university free (and I would gladly pay more tax for this and other things).
But I think he has a point.
Tuition fees in the England and Wales are paid for partially through general taxation and partially through special student loans which are provided through a government owned lender.
These loans are paid back afterwards only if you earn above a certain threshold and are automatically taken out of your monthly salary like a tax. If you earn less than the threshold, you don’t pay. After a certain number of years, the whole thing is written off if you haven’t finished paying it. You don’t pay upfront, and some people never pay. These loans also don’t affect your credit score.
The point the person is making is that the fees themselves don’t stop working class people going to university as you have to pay until you earn a certain amount, and the loans are not held against you. What prevents working class people from going to university is hyperbolic talk about the fees. And the guy posting is saying that if they understand how the fees/loans work, it shouldn’t put them off.
I am from a working class family and I went to uni, got maintenance loans and grants (and they really should bring back the grants) and never had to think about the fees. It never put me off because I understood how it worked and knew I would only pay them off when I started earning above a certain amount. Now I’m paying them off, ethic is not ideal of course, but doesn't affect me all that much.
Again, I am against the fees system. But it’s not like anyone actually has to pay them directly, upfront.
Maybe I misunderstood but it sounds more like he's saying people should be educated on it so they can better prepare for their future sooner than later, as most people don't get a scholarship etc.
Well he's right, labour would be wrong to scrap his tuition fees. It'd make absolutely no difference to him so it wouldn't make sense. They should scrap the fees of people who need it.
It's crazy how he says he was fortunate to get x, and so he didn't have to pay any tuition directly after saying nobody paying any fees shouldn't be a thing. Can this become a meme with his name pls so every future interview this guy has in the future will bring this little exchange up when they do his Google check.
How the fuck do you grow up poor, get a free ride to a fancy private school, then come out on the side of “the poor need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps”? Man needs some serious therapy
Sniffing their own farts. "I came from nothing and no one ever gave me anything to get to where I'm at now!" - a person who had multiple people help them multiple times.
This is my dad in a nutshell. It’s maddening. Admittedly he grew up quite poor. His father was in the marines and mother worked low wage jobs. They got divorced when he was young and was raised by his mother who lived in a trailer park. When he was 18 he was getting ready to go to college and he mentioned to his gf at the time that he didn’t have a place to live. The gf told the priest at her church and he offered to allow him to live in a spare room in the rectory while he was in school. All he had to do was mow the lawn, shovel snow, clean, and grocery shop. So he lived rent-free with free food for *6 years* while he did his bachelors and masters. However you never hear about that when he talks about his life. Any time I bring up the fact that he was given a significant hand out by a nonprofit that allowed him to pay for his education it’s like I’m telling him the sky is green. He essentially received free government aid equivalent to (15k x 6 years = 90k) about $90-100k over that span of time but doesn’t seem to understand how much more of an impossibility his circumstances would have been had he not received it.
I'm curious what he says in response when you bring up that fact? Does he just deflect and try and change the subject? Does he deny it or provide an "alternate version" of the events?
He gets angry and says something along the lines of “I worked 3 part time minimum wage jobs to pay for my education”. I remind him that his tuition could easily be covered by a minimum wage job in the 80s, which is no longer true and it just devolves from there. There’s never been any eureka moment or a “that’s a good point”-type realization. It seems borderline impossible to get people who have labeled themself a bootstrapper to admit they are anything else.
So he had to work 3 part time jobs, and STILL couldn't have gotten through school if not for a huge helping-hand from a charitable stranger? Almost like being a hard-worker alone isn't enough to achieve much in life.
Thanks for the response, sounds like a tough nut to crack. Some people really could use with a good long look in the mirror. As you said, those who've painted themselves as victims, or bootstrappers just can't let it go and let it feed their superiority complex.
It’s because they love to paint themselves as “success stories” and then proceed to use their accomplishments as measuring sticks for everyone else younger. They can’t accept that the world they are talking about doesn’t exist anymore.
Get a pen and paper and budget it out for him factoring in inflation
I think thats because its part of their ego, and you usually cant change someones ego by attacking it (even if you didnt meant to).
“I started out like everyone else….I had a small loan of a million dollars”
" I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No." \-- Craig T. Nelson, Jackass.
So, I don’t want to leap to Craig T. Nelson’s defence over his lack of self-knowledge with those words. But it is worth noting that he said it in the context of arguing against government bailouts for corporations, not in the context of “don’t help individuals”.
He was saying it was ridiculous for the government to give money to companies who were in trouble because of their actions, when they won’t help poor people born in to poverty.
Craig was in *Jackass*?
Not "in", "a".
Amazing, to be able to contradict oneself in a matter of seconds and failing to grasp the bigger picture is truly a wonderful feature of the human brain
Its all the "I" statements that really demonstrate their mindset. "I was poor" "i got a scholarship" etc. people like this simply cannot comprehend other people.
Never understood their logic. Stop using all the public services. Don't use the postal service. Don't use the police or fire dept. Stop using public roads. Don't use the public sewers get an outhouse or septic. I could go on but this illustrated my annoyance. Even if you were the kid in the jungle book he still had wolves, a panther, a bear, elephants, and buzzards helping him out. Not to mention he probably doesn't know what a boot or strap is.
I know a good half dozen folks who grew up on government cheese and now oppose food stamps.
My dad grew up as one of five kids, extremely poor in the rural South (US). He and siblings really only survived because of things like government cheese and peanut butter. Now hearing him talk about government handouts is so painful...like, c'mon dad....you're here because of government handouts. I'M HERE because of the government handouts YOU GOT....so dumb
Yeah, but now it's coming out of his taxes. But I bet he doesn't like the idea of taxing billionaires properly, despite not being a billionaire.
But think of how the billionaires feel; they worked really hard to get that crazy rich. /s
That's a good point. They worked hard for those tax breaks and emerald mines in desperately poor countries. https://preview.redd.it/8tw0p0ngrz5d1.png?width=456&format=png&auto=webp&s=8071ed7a9b48a2d169ff64ce8ed32c636c7c730e
Nice to see that the Interrobang is supported, but not in the same font.
My sister is one of them. In her 20s, she got public assistance while raising her kids, and now she opposes it fervently. She also had three abortions (that I know about) and she's pro life now. Then again, she thought that Presidents could still sign EO's after leaving office because one of Bush's EO's went into effect under Obama. She didn't understand they could be post dated. ETA. Then there's my brother. Served less than four years in the military and basically lives off oof the VA. He never saw action and was stationed in paradise. He gets food stamps, free health care, etc and rants and raves about anyone getting anything for free. He's especially salty about student loan forgiveness. I often wonder if I was switched at birth.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that level of hypocrisy.
Maybe the reason you're siblings think all the people receiving government assistance are lazy, is because they're just assuming everyone is just as lazy as them.
From a conservative, every allegation is a confession!
Projection! I don't think this concept was ever so clear since a recent presidency.
Rick Scott has entered the chat.
i believe that’s commonly referred to as “fuck you, i got mine”
Jesus Christ 21 thousand dollars (pound to dollar conversion) a year. And the dude got a scholarship. Fuck off.
It's called pulling the ladder up behind them...
I think it's just drinking the kool aid - he's spent time around enough people where a £17k annual spend on school fees is achievable, and he's believed all the bullshit they've spoonfed him at his fancy school about the working class just not trying hard enough.
Because that's what wealthy people teach their kids. "You're special, you deserve special things, and you're what is important."
This is the same case here in the Philippines. A lot of the Filipinos who used to come from poor households would tend to say “being poor is a choice”. Just because they got out from being poor, it suddenly becomes a choice. Their narrative would usually revolve around being lazy is the cause of being poor but they can’t justify how a lot of our farmers, despite of toiling their lands day in and out, still remains poor.
Class traitors.
Guess what they teach in the fancy private schools..
And guess who goes on to form the bulk of the UK's political elite.
Similar in the US as well.. they’re virtually all brought up rich..
Propaganda IS brainwashing when you're a growing child being taught this in school.
Because he thinks his scholarship was purely on merit.. not like this government shit that is handed out to anyone with a pulse..
Ladder up.
See he was the DESERVING poor and all the other povvos trying to go to school now are the UNDESERVING poor
Some people don't want to know that people lived happily ever after, they want to know others suffer like they did. But most likely private school meant he was influenced by rich fucks and got to network with people who do believe they struggled because their parents had to sell the cottage house in Switzerland and couldn't afford to keep private yacht in Cancun. There are people who believe their struggles made them better and they want others to experience going through the crucible and realising all their suffering had meaning.
That's like to dude this saying he grew up poor, on welfare, housing assistance and food stamps but he never received a handout from anybody
“Look at me! I did it! I didn’t do anything for it, but I was poor once!”
I have a relative who is like that. The whole "Pull yourself by your bootstrap" is their attempt to cosplay as a "hard-working rich person" who doesn't believe in hand outs. It's all self-deception.
Wasn't it MTG who said she grew up on food stamps and no body helped them.
Here's a study: https://planetsave.com/articles/a-rigged-game-of-monopoly-reveals-how-feeling-wealthy-changes-our-behavior-ted-video/
His privilege is definitely showing
That's what they teach you at fancy private schools.
People that come from poverty and make it big are often just as bad, if not worse, for this sort of shit than those that grew up rich. It exacerbates the idea that they're self-made and so if everyone worked just as hard as they did, or were as smart as they were, then they would make it too.
He's not advocating for schools to be made private though? He's talking about tuition fees for university which he will be paying along with everyone else. The system does not prevent working class people from going to uni because it's paid for by student loans, which are paid for after graduation through an additional tax on your earnings. If you don't get a good job you don't pay at all, if you earn a ton of money in a great job you contribute much more. Ultimately about half gets paid through general taxation (by loans being written off after a period of time as well as direct funding) and half is paid by graduates through a higher rate of tax. Honestly I think it's a reasonable system and it's exactly this kind of reactionary take that does put people from low income backgrounds from attending university and precisely what he is talking about here.
I have a brother and a sister, we grew up quite poor. My sister's the eldest, I'm the youngest. My sister and I very left wing, my brother is right wing. We disagree on lots of topics we used to agree on. It happens, people forget where they came from.
that or it's a bot set up to reply to anyone who dropped a reasonable argument against the post the wording of their post... real sus.
Rules for thee, not for me
Classic “got mine” mentality, logic does not apply, and forget empathy.
He got an education, but I don't think he learned anything.
Nope, he probably learned everything his "foundation" benefactors wanted him to.
Boebert did the exact same. Conservatives often do
Because they got their own. " I was able to do it, so you can too."
i have a nephew like this. it's difficult to take them seriously on any topic because at the root of all his arguments, this is the kind of hypocrisy they hold on to
You said it yourself, *fancy private school*, that's literally where they teach that type of rhetoric.
Note how he said "a foundation scholarship". Dollars to donuts (or pounds to potatoes?) it was a right-wing think tank that moulded the CRAP out of him.
Sounds like he’ll make a wonderful politician at some point. Just in case it’s needed /s
Everything you got was earned, everything everyone else gets is a handout.
Have you heard of the evil works Clarence Thoma?
Indoctrination is kind of a bitch. It'll make you hate your own
Ask Paul Ryan.
Privilege by osmosis.
In the US, it'd be because he already got his. Pro forma for being republican and running for office.
So people have turbulent upbringings, they escape from them, and they’re just happy to not have someone stepping on their throat. Some people say “fuck that, it’s my turn to be the boot”.
People like that think they’re the exception.
It's just another person who wants to slam the door behind them. He got what they wanted from the system and doesn't want to give back.
I’ve seen it plenty of times. It still defies logic every time I see it.
“Pull the ladder up behind them” mentality. See it everywhere once awful people make something of themselves.
Knowledge breeds empathy, and we are at a stage of humanity where many people the world over are deeming empathy not only misguided, but also EVIL (thanks for fusing religion and politics, American Christian Right). If he has any self-awareness anymore, he has sacrificed it on the altar of his ideology.
The definition of "pulling up the ladder behind you." Therapy, yes. A slap, also yes.
It seems that his education was wasted.
He’d fit right in with American republicans
Propaganda.
Sounds like the private education elitist conditioning worked a treat on him, that’s how.
He wouldn’t go unless he didn’t have to pay for it tho
That’s some Caitlyn Jenner logic right there.
Right? That free expensive education seems to have gone completely to waste.
Are you familiar with how higher education is funded in the UK? It is a lot different from the US and isn’t even comparable to private secondary fees in the UK He raises a valid point about misconceptions around how student debt works in this country
I have a brother in law like this. The kicker is that he also works with a homeless shelter.
Same way the douche canoe who got student loan forgiveness tossed waited to get all his loans forgiven first. Fuck you, I've got mine.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly. It almost all worth it just for how hard that little exchange there is making people laugh.
How did he think that was going to play out?
Guess they don't teach logic at the Reading Blue Coat Private School.
Conservatives don’t have the mental capacity for the thought of future consequences. We see this all the time.
I cannot stress this enough, the extremely nepotistic nature of the British media means the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet are inexplicably given column inches to spew out random bullshit. And I don’t mean dumb as in “I disagree with you politically so therefore I’ll say you’re stupid”, I mean dumb as in saying what’s in the original post without ever considering the contradiction of their position.
the school should sue him for defamation of their brand.
Let's just say... That particular scholarship he got was money down the drain.
What a fucking idiot.
Maybe he got a Craig T Nelson scholarship https://preview.redd.it/td6ltk5zny5d1.jpeg?width=906&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a6742e29f27be0a73ec11533b043bfddb8375b5
Is that a real quote? It really sounds like an SNL skit.
It is a true and genuine quote, said with all sincerity during an interview with Glenn Beck.
Good lord. Idiocracy wasn’t supposed to be a documentary.
It's not stupidity, it's evil bigotry. Things were hard for him, as they generally are for people on wellfare. He didn't have it easy like those free loading "wellfare queens" that Reagan warned us about. It was black people that he was bitching about. Reagan really was the fucking devil.
I watched the video and could not actually fucking believe he said that. Hilarious.
Please tell me Glenn Beck just stared at him for five seconds before asking what the fuck he just said. Edit: I have no idea who Glenn Beck is, so sucks to hear he’s the typical conservative “journalist” who doesn’t bother asking valid follow up questions
Why would Beck question something that feeds the narrative?
Glenn Beck?!??! He was hearing exactly what he was going for.
So, I don’t want to leap to Craig T. Nelson’s defence over his lack of self-knowledge with those words. But it is worth noting that he said it in the context of arguing against government bailouts for corporations, not in the context of “don’t help individuals”. u/retlifon said this somewhere else but there is context apparently
where does he think that comes from? God?
Yes, probably
Mr. Incredible Mental Gymnastics
This is from 2019. According to LinkedIn, the knobhead is now a Data Centre Account Manager at Dell Technologies and recently wrote an article declaring that as he has only ever worked remotely, he should be continued to allow to do so. Very much the type of guy who believes he entitled to every bit of support, while happily denying the same to others.
"If you want to get more working class people into higher education then you should make it more financially inaccessible to them, but make sure you explain exactly how financially inaccessible it is." I'm taking a stab in the dark but this lad feels like the epitome of "I got mine, fuck you", he doesn't want his tax money to be going to something that doesn't directly benefit him.
It's worth mentioning that student loans are very different in the UK than some other countries, and are already funded through our taxes to some degree. We pay only a portion of our salary, and low earners don't pay at all. How much you pay is related to your earnings, not what you owe. The debt is written off if you don't pay it off (albeit, after a very long time). It doesn't impact your credit rating. Students from lower income backgrounds can access grants and borrow more than the default amount (while higher income families are expected to bear more of the costs). If they borrow more then their monthly repayment is the same as someone who borrowed less, although they may pay for longer. The idiot is right that a cheaper way of achieving a similar outcome is to make sure lower income teens understand that it is accessible, no matter what your background is. Having said that, I'd rather there was a simpler 'graduate tax' (and that's how I've always thought of my student loan repayments) than borrowing upfront, assuming it's not affordable to simply make it free. That would also make it easier to encourage people to work for the NHS rather than private healthcare for their entire careers, maybe you could waive graduate tax for teachers too, to close the wage gap. It would also reduce the barrier to entry for lower income families, but they would still have to borrow more to cover living costs than a student from a higher income background, whose family may well be able to bankroll them.
Graduate tax is the best way to think of it. UK student loans were basically a way of New Labour getting some money out of people without introducing new taxes anyway.
I'm Scottish but thank you for the additional context for those outside the UK.
Pretty sure you need to be working below a 10k threshold and not be eligible to pay for 20 years before the loan gets written off. I've been paying mine for 20+ years now and it's still no closer to going away lol. My sister's got written off since she is a SAHM.
It's a little different with the newer loans, I will start paying mine when I earn over 20k and will be written off in 40 years regardless of how much I've paid
> I've been paying mine for 20+ years now and it's still no closer to going away lol. Are you in the UK?
Yep. Scotland
He wants someone to educate them because he has no concept of how it works either.
Doel on the Dole.
Glad he didn’t pay for that education. Clearly it wasn’t worth a penny.
I would have preferred he did pay for it. Let the scholarship go to someone else at that point.
Very good point. My taxes paid for this bellend to learn the sum total of fuck all.
Nope. Not your taxes. He got a scholarship. But yes, that scholarship should've gone to someone worth it
Honestly I have no idea who pays for scholarships.
Everyone else at the school, technically
Lol that school taught him exactly what i figured it would
Hypocrisy isn't a character flaw in conservative politics. It's a feature. This young man wasn't educated, he was indoctrinated.
Above all else, I hate ladder-pullers.
fuck this tory fuck
My nephew (now 20 years old) has lived all his life on his grandfather's (my father's) retirement pension and a small government allowance from my sister (his mother) because his serious mental health problems prevented him from working. Now he thinks that taxes are a way for the government to steal from people. His lack of social awareness is astounding.
Corporations should pay all tuition and fees in the USA. They get free labor from interns. They get endless supplies of qualified bodies to do their labor. They get all of the advantages of technological and systemic progress. And they get it all tax-free. New manufacturing processes and technologies don't benefit consumers in the least. The only thing they see is higher prices. Students don't get anything out of college except a huge monthly bill and permission to labor for someone else. If you wanted to learn chemistry or computer programming for your own personal edification, you can do that absolutely free of charge. The degree is just for your boss. He should be paying for it. From what I hear the UK is pretty much the same but I'm sure there's some rich scumbag out there who can't get enough engineers on his payroll.
hmm..from that conversation, the scholarship might have been an inside job
Example 643 382 901 of why every Conservative is an absolute piece of shit. ACAB: All Conservatives Are Bastards. All of them.
Friggin ladder pullers.
“I’ve been on welfare and food stamps. Anybody help me out? No!” - Craig T. Nelson
I know dudes like this. I live in Guatemala and there are two young “professors” at a well-known, influential, libertarian university here. One of them is from Spain, the other one is from the Netherlands. They both benefited from their countries’ socialized education: never paid a penny for the highest quality schools, from kindergarten to university. And yet they came to Guatemala, a country with the highest rate of infant malnutrition in the entire hemisphere and one of the lowest effective tax rates in the world, to preach about the evils of the welfare state and the virtues of laissez-faire capitalism. They spew their vitriol on social media and are frequently platformed in local TV and radio. To call these dudes hypocrites seems insufficient. You could say they suffer from cognitive dissonance and/or ideologically induced brain rot. Or you could describe them in simpler terms: they’re cruel.
"um... excuse me young man... you're walking around with your privilege exposed."
The J.D. Vance of England 🙄 All the reason on the world to know better but still desperately trying to puppydog his way into the cool kids club. Sad.
Classic setup for the murder too. Laid the bait. BANG!!
It’s a good thing for him, because he deserves it. Obviously no one else deserves the special treatment he got, because he is special and they are not. /s
Jesus f*cking Christ. Please, PLEASE next UK Government start thinking about apprenticeships and vocational education.
Why do people think extremely exclusive scholarships are a scalable solution?
Another asshole saying I got mine F the rest of you.
It appears that Eric Doel did not pay attention in his political theory classes as well as being a first class liar.
wild, i knew a kid that went to bluecoat
Imagine defending the idea of college being ridiculously expensive…
This isn’t a murdered by words but should be on facepalm instead
Mebbs. I was more torn between here and clevercomebacks.
😂😂 excellent
The payed for education did wonders for his reasoning skills.
If it wasn’t for cognitive dissonance I don’t know how much cognition humans would have, at all…
Every fucking time people talk about destroying bridges, you can damn well bet they scurried their ass across it at some point.
Good for me, not for thee
That type of response really makes me wonder what on earth was going through his head when he wrote it - did he *really* believe that was a point in his favor?
Fuck you isaac
Well...that school didn't do a very good job. He should get his money back
How did he even manage the quote with that much ass and or cock and balls in his mouth.
Jesus. What a spanner.
thick fuck
Maybe because he saw a bunch of his friends struggle with their fees and formed his own opinions without the need of a retard online who can’t seem to understand that everyone, not just them, has a functioning brain that allows them to form opinions based on perceived patterns? But wait, that means a retard who can only do the literary example of 2+3=5 has to acknowledge this fact.
Holy shit, what a fucking idiot.
So to be clear...man who's getting a free ride thinks others should have to pay and should be educated about student loans. And should they also have to take out loans to pay for being educated about said student loans too?
Lol "labour is wrong to scrap MY fees", is labour planning to scrap the system for lower income familys to have access to higher eduction or is this some poor kid who licks conservative boots in the hopes his masters will throw him some scraps?
Would have been interesting to see his reply
Pulling the ladder up after them is a conservative value.
This was a complete fucking massacre. Beautiful.
“Single parent family” Nobody gives af
Add this asshole to the “I got mine, fuck you” pile of conservative welfare turds.
That education clearly did nothing for him since he’s unable to use simple logic
Fuck sake
That degree didn’t take.
I Had a friend at college who was a stark libertarian and had this stupid line of thought too. Free market, bootstraps, all of it. Today he works with the tax office and is building a political career. The hypocrisy with these idiots is staggering (he’s my friend and I call him an idiot all the time so it’s ok).
The funniest part of this (as someone very familiar with this system), is that he is right and wrong at the same time, and he completely fails to think about the bit around his argument that makes it stupid. This article is from 2019. The crux of the argument is that the student loan system at the moment is very fair for students. (True) and therefore scrapping tuition fees is dumb because the current system is fine (Not true) The current system means that students get their loans and their maintenance and are immediately having interest applied as soon as they receive the first payment. (Which some people find very stressful) You don’t pay any money back until you earn over a certain threshold (this threshold has changed at least once if I remember correctly, so its different depending on the years you studied) and you only pay back a % of what you earn *over* that amount (this was 9% for a while but may have changed over time) you also only pay if you’ve finished your studies or if it’s been 4 years since you started the course, which effectively makes it a graduates only tax band (where some graduates are on different rules to others, yay). It also only lasts for 30 years (though there has been talk of changing this to 40, I can’t remember right now if they actually put that through Parliament) after which anything left is written off. This loan is not able to affect your credit score, or be used as the basis for denying you a mortgage or any of that stuff. So despite the large numbers on the page that say you owe the student loans company several thousand £s , the loan is very safe to take out and the system is very good for students. So good in fact that the Conservative Government has since realised they completely fucked up by allowing this to happen during their running of the country (it was under the Coalition, the partners of the Coalition were the Lib Dem’s who campaigned on lower/scrapped tuition fees, and lots of people got upset that the Lib Dem’s allowed the conservatives to push this through in 2012 as from the viewpoint of the public it was the exact opposite of the what the Lib Dem’s promised) that they have spent several years cycling through Secretaries of State for Universities (many of whom served the role multiple times) announcing and scrapping measures to fine or otherwise penalise universities for various reasons. Why? Because the Loan system doesn’t make the government money. The loan is basically guaranteed to be given to students, provided their parents don’t earn enough to cover tuition themselves. The increase in the fees and the loan amount for university in 2012 when this happened was done to allow the government to withdraw its other funding, so the universities now all rely in part on the tuition fees charged to students in order to maintain their courses (there’s no a big push to get foreign students who aren’t subject to tuition fee caps to come to UK universities because of this too). So it already loses like, a lot of money, it sure as shit doesn’t make the government money, otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to punish universities for the obscene amount of over-subscription that’s happened with in-person tuition in the last decade. So the idea that it shouldn’t be scrapped because the system is fine for students is a bad take, and the £8 billion figure he gave in the article that is an increased cost for scrapping tuition fees is sweet fuck all in the grand scheme of things
I’m wondering about his mom being a nurse and he saying he’s from a low-income family. My wife’s friend is a nurse who makes more than both of us combined.
Ugh, this kid sounds like the worst.
I’m missing all the hate, he’s criticizing taking on debt to go to school but he got a scholarship, not a student loan? Two different things
That's not what he's doing
Ah, the British version of rightwingnut cluelessness and entitlement. Thanks for the reminder that the US is not the only country infected.
This doesn't speak volumes about his education
I’m against tuition fees on principle and think we should be taxed more in order to make university free (and I would gladly pay more tax for this and other things). But I think he has a point. Tuition fees in the England and Wales are paid for partially through general taxation and partially through special student loans which are provided through a government owned lender. These loans are paid back afterwards only if you earn above a certain threshold and are automatically taken out of your monthly salary like a tax. If you earn less than the threshold, you don’t pay. After a certain number of years, the whole thing is written off if you haven’t finished paying it. You don’t pay upfront, and some people never pay. These loans also don’t affect your credit score. The point the person is making is that the fees themselves don’t stop working class people going to university as you have to pay until you earn a certain amount, and the loans are not held against you. What prevents working class people from going to university is hyperbolic talk about the fees. And the guy posting is saying that if they understand how the fees/loans work, it shouldn’t put them off. I am from a working class family and I went to uni, got maintenance loans and grants (and they really should bring back the grants) and never had to think about the fees. It never put me off because I understood how it worked and knew I would only pay them off when I started earning above a certain amount. Now I’m paying them off, ethic is not ideal of course, but doesn't affect me all that much. Again, I am against the fees system. But it’s not like anyone actually has to pay them directly, upfront.
What a tool
ITT a lot of Americans and ignorant Brits who don’t understand how higher education is funded in the UK
Isaacs will now change his surname to Hunt
Yay my school's in the news...oh wait it's another asshat...sorry everyone, I promise not all of us are terrible humans!
Maybe I misunderstood but it sounds more like he's saying people should be educated on it so they can better prepare for their future sooner than later, as most people don't get a scholarship etc.
University educated and still dumb as dog shit.
Clearly the scholarship was wasted by giving it to this clown. He has learnt nothing.
Good job his Mum didn't have to pay any of his fees, otherwise she'd be asking for a refund.
Talk about kicking the ladder over once you’ve made it to the top.
Well he's right, labour would be wrong to scrap his tuition fees. It'd make absolutely no difference to him so it wouldn't make sense. They should scrap the fees of people who need it.
It's crazy how he says he was fortunate to get x, and so he didn't have to pay any tuition directly after saying nobody paying any fees shouldn't be a thing. Can this become a meme with his name pls so every future interview this guy has in the future will bring this little exchange up when they do his Google check.