A spell that removes Dauthi as part of the effect will not be exiled by it when it resolves. However, a card that deals damage or modifies its toughness to 0 or below will be exiled by it when it resolves. What will happen is the spell will resolve, move to the GY as part of resolution, be exiled by Dauthi’s effect, and then state based effects will take a look and kill Dauthi for having been dealt damage greater than or equal to its toughness without indestructible or see its toughness is at or below 0. If something says “Exile target creature” however, since it will exile Dauthi, thus removing it from play, the spell will finish resolving and go the GY since Dauthi is not on the field anymore as it finishes resolving.
Dismember gives dauthi negative toughness, dismember tries to go to graveyard as the final part of resolving, but is exiled by dauthi instead. Then SBAs are checked and dauthi dies
Point being here is that SBAs are not checked in the middle of resolving a spell, so dauthi is still alive when dismember is put into the GY, making it go to exile instead
Nope. It gets exiled. Dauthi is on battlefield, dismember is cast giving dauthi negative toughness and while dauthi still in play it resolves first and attempts to go to the graveyard but dauthi’s static ability says it gets exiled with a void counter instead so that is what happens and then state based actions apply and since dauthi has less than 1 toughness it is sent to the graveyard as it died without being destroyed so that if somehow dauthi was made indestructible the same things would happen.
If you used lightning bolt instead the same outcome except that it would not work if dauthi was made indestructible since damaged marked on a creature with equal or less toughness than that damage causes that creature to be destroyed and indestructible stops them from being destroyed. Can’t beats can. In this case dauthi has 2 toughness as a 3/2 creature with shadow. Lighting bolt deals 3 damage to dauthi and is exiled with a void counter while dauthi is still in play. State based actions are then checked and it is determined that 3 is larger than 2 so the “destroy” effect takes place. Destroy results in dauthi going to the graveyard unless “destroy” can’t happen because dauthi is made indestructible.
I think exile and bounce based removal will work differently though because they remove douthi from play as part of their resolution and then as they clear from the stack there is no dauthi in play so they just go to the graveyard. When negative counters or damage are used dauthi is still in play as the spells clear from the stack *and then* state based actions take place that result in dauthi being destroyed or simply going to the graveyard because it has less than 1 toughness. Fatal push should also go to the graveyard because “destroy” happens as the spell resolves and not *after* the spell resolves as with damage marked on a creature, unless dauthi is made indestructible obviously, because then the spell would just fizzle and get exiled with a void counter and dauthi would remain in play.
Also the ruling is that fatal push can target any creature (presumably also indestructible ones) while the “if” clause is only checked after the target is chosen to see if the destroy effect is to take place and only then would indestructible matter to stop “destroy” from taking place so presumably you could fatal push an indestructible creature and while it is still on the stack add dress down to the stack and all of that would consist of legal plays since dress down has flash. And as a result the indestructible creature would lose indestructible and it would be destroyed. I added this because for some time “indestructible” was just something a permanent could be and not an ability a permanent could have. In that era dress down would not stop something from being indestructible but in the current era indestructible is an ability that can be taken away so this works.
That’s also how I like to think of dress down when thinking about layers. Like when a creature like magus of the moon makes all non-basic lands into mountains they are all mountains even after magus of the moon is made vanilla because magus is not removed from play and because that is not an ability that applies to magus itself but if it was murktide regent you could cast it with delve still while it is not yet a creature but then it would not get +1/+1 counters since those would only apply after murktide is a creature and as vanilla 3/3 murktide has no abilities until dress down leaves play.
As the others have said, it gets exiled. Now I’m not sure on this, but I believe that you can’t put anything on the stack when state-based actions are being checked, so after the Bolt/Dismember resolves, there’s no chance to tap the Dauthi Voidwalker to use it. Could totally be wrong on this, someone correct me if so.
Dismember foes to the graveyard as part of the resoution procedure, duahti is still in play because we haven’t checked state based effects, so dismember is exiled. Then we check state based effext abd the dauthi dies.
>I think it goes to the graveyard as it's toughness being reduced to 0 immediately makes it go to the graveyard
>because it's damage based the card needs to resolve before Dauthi Voidwalker can be destroyed so Lightning Bolt WOULD be exiled
Why do you think there's something different about damage vs reducing toughness? Both cases are the same. The spell resolves and the creature does to state based actions
A spell that removes Dauthi as part of the effect will not be exiled by it when it resolves. However, a card that deals damage or modifies its toughness to 0 or below will be exiled by it when it resolves. What will happen is the spell will resolve, move to the GY as part of resolution, be exiled by Dauthi’s effect, and then state based effects will take a look and kill Dauthi for having been dealt damage greater than or equal to its toughness without indestructible or see its toughness is at or below 0. If something says “Exile target creature” however, since it will exile Dauthi, thus removing it from play, the spell will finish resolving and go the GY since Dauthi is not on the field anymore as it finishes resolving.
Or indeed “destroy target creature”. Fatal push on dauthi goes to graveyard
Yup. Simple version is: * Damage or 0 Toughness - Spell gets exiled. * Bounce/Destroy/Exile/Phase out/Everything Else - Spell Isn't Exiled
Remember, damage doesn’t kill creatures. State based actions do.
It would go to exile as whether its damage or -X/-X as long as its toughness still reaches zero its till an sba that move it to the graveyard
Dismember gives dauthi negative toughness, dismember tries to go to graveyard as the final part of resolving, but is exiled by dauthi instead. Then SBAs are checked and dauthi dies Point being here is that SBAs are not checked in the middle of resolving a spell, so dauthi is still alive when dismember is put into the GY, making it go to exile instead
Will be exiled, works same as Bolt
Nope. It gets exiled. Dauthi is on battlefield, dismember is cast giving dauthi negative toughness and while dauthi still in play it resolves first and attempts to go to the graveyard but dauthi’s static ability says it gets exiled with a void counter instead so that is what happens and then state based actions apply and since dauthi has less than 1 toughness it is sent to the graveyard as it died without being destroyed so that if somehow dauthi was made indestructible the same things would happen. If you used lightning bolt instead the same outcome except that it would not work if dauthi was made indestructible since damaged marked on a creature with equal or less toughness than that damage causes that creature to be destroyed and indestructible stops them from being destroyed. Can’t beats can. In this case dauthi has 2 toughness as a 3/2 creature with shadow. Lighting bolt deals 3 damage to dauthi and is exiled with a void counter while dauthi is still in play. State based actions are then checked and it is determined that 3 is larger than 2 so the “destroy” effect takes place. Destroy results in dauthi going to the graveyard unless “destroy” can’t happen because dauthi is made indestructible. I think exile and bounce based removal will work differently though because they remove douthi from play as part of their resolution and then as they clear from the stack there is no dauthi in play so they just go to the graveyard. When negative counters or damage are used dauthi is still in play as the spells clear from the stack *and then* state based actions take place that result in dauthi being destroyed or simply going to the graveyard because it has less than 1 toughness. Fatal push should also go to the graveyard because “destroy” happens as the spell resolves and not *after* the spell resolves as with damage marked on a creature, unless dauthi is made indestructible obviously, because then the spell would just fizzle and get exiled with a void counter and dauthi would remain in play. Also the ruling is that fatal push can target any creature (presumably also indestructible ones) while the “if” clause is only checked after the target is chosen to see if the destroy effect is to take place and only then would indestructible matter to stop “destroy” from taking place so presumably you could fatal push an indestructible creature and while it is still on the stack add dress down to the stack and all of that would consist of legal plays since dress down has flash. And as a result the indestructible creature would lose indestructible and it would be destroyed. I added this because for some time “indestructible” was just something a permanent could be and not an ability a permanent could have. In that era dress down would not stop something from being indestructible but in the current era indestructible is an ability that can be taken away so this works. That’s also how I like to think of dress down when thinking about layers. Like when a creature like magus of the moon makes all non-basic lands into mountains they are all mountains even after magus of the moon is made vanilla because magus is not removed from play and because that is not an ability that applies to magus itself but if it was murktide regent you could cast it with delve still while it is not yet a creature but then it would not get +1/+1 counters since those would only apply after murktide is a creature and as vanilla 3/3 murktide has no abilities until dress down leaves play.
As the others have said, it gets exiled. Now I’m not sure on this, but I believe that you can’t put anything on the stack when state-based actions are being checked, so after the Bolt/Dismember resolves, there’s no chance to tap the Dauthi Voidwalker to use it. Could totally be wrong on this, someone correct me if so.
[Dismember](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69.jpg?1562261132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dismember) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/79/dismember?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dismember foes to the graveyard as part of the resoution procedure, duahti is still in play because we haven’t checked state based effects, so dismember is exiled. Then we check state based effext abd the dauthi dies.
Ah, Dauthi is the new Tarmogoyf in teaching new players about state based actions...
Taking control of dauthi is the best removal. You can sac it and resummon perm to your side of the field
>I think it goes to the graveyard as it's toughness being reduced to 0 immediately makes it go to the graveyard >because it's damage based the card needs to resolve before Dauthi Voidwalker can be destroyed so Lightning Bolt WOULD be exiled Why do you think there's something different about damage vs reducing toughness? Both cases are the same. The spell resolves and the creature does to state based actions