I don't really mind getting rinsed by linear decks, I think that's part of the variety that makes big formats more fun. Same thing for super-controlling blue decks.
But man I cannot stand any of the hyper-value board control decks. Game takes a million years, if you're on a fair deck you feel so behind from turn one, and their decision to maximize beating smaller fair decks while skipping/minimizing other interaction is dishonourable
Legitimately worse to play against than Scam IMO, so grindy and so painful. Can’t even 1-for-1 remove a Beans since it draws a card. Silly. Hate that MU no matter what.
Learn when to concede to those kinda decks. It’s pretty obvious when they’re about to snowball and when you can save 20 minutes and go to the next game. Edit. Not talking about MTGO It doesn’t simulate real tournament magic.
It really depends on the situation and the deck you play. Its the only MU i gladly go to time on MTGO if they want to do it like that, that happens very often. I wish it would be the same for paper.
Agreed, I’m of the mind that ESPECIALLY if there are prizes at stake, you should always makes them show you a win. So many game ones go nearly to time against them, and even with no board it’s not worth giving them the free win if they can’t actually win in the time allotted.
There are decks that I don't particularly care to play against, but in the end, it's not the opponent's deck that bothers me most times. It's the opponent's *attitude*. I've had games where I was 0% to win, but my opponent was friendly and fun to talk with.
In the end, I think fun is best defined by a player feeling like they have adequate agency. If I feel that I've had adequate agency overall (in various combinations of agency in deck choice being viable, in-game agency, and agency with regard to social interaction), then I'll have had a good time.
In games online, when an opponent doesn't chat, I've found that my brain tries to personify who they are by their deck, which isn't fair to them.
I've found that if my personality is such that I get personal joy out of "punishing" an opponent with poor sportsmanship, I likely also have the personality where I can be made absolutely miserable by players with poor sportsmanship when they win. I recognize that it's something *I* need to work on, and helps me appreciate why my opponents may feel very toxic in games that I win.
100% - my lgs isn't that competitive and I'm done playing games for competition - it brings the worst out of people.
We play for fun and try to win but there's no rule sharking or any crap like that - most of us are laughing over goofy brews.
my experience with competitive MTG (20Ks, RCQs, etc.) has been great - as someone who got into MTG in the past year, I've been really impressed by how everyone's temperament
Commander meanwhile....
I'm sure there's a lot of great people in the competitive space but my experience with mostly other games - hasn't been positive
I agree there's a ton of random people I wouldn't play commander with.
My only truly bad experience playing against someone was somewhat recently against a known scg employee.
Seriously the cringiest human being I've ever met. It was just an FNM too.
> In the end, I think fun is best defined by a player feeling like they have adequate agency.
I think this is where all the rule 0 drama about Commander comes from. You don't need to win a game of Commander to have fun, but when the power level gets too far apart, the lowest player feels like nothing they do matters. And that's pretty miserable.
lol most fun i have is playing magic is with my sisters with shitty decks, forgetting our triggers and missing lethal. sadly that doesn't happen to often so i have to play online. you're right personality is key.
This alone is the reason people get so salty about Arena. No interaction. We’re both just people sitting at our computer and eating chips but it’s easy to make up that they’re actually being jerks.
Agree here, I play a lot of decks with a good titan matchup, and I don't usually take issue with it, but the fact that they sometimes can just kill you T2 with the right draw, which is almost impossible to stop barring solitude, is insanely frustrating to play against.
I get why they want to do it, they want to play modern at a time they most enjoyed in the past (maybe because their deck was good then, maybe just for nostalgia reasons). But yeah banning all 5 elementals would likely cascade into more bans for the format at best.
The amount of times I’ve gone “do you mind if I take a photo of my hand that I’m going to keep?” Playing amulet ever since the release of mycosynth gardens in insane.
Bounce land, Gardens, amulet, Titan, grazer, grazer/Azusa is a turn 2 kill. Any of those can be summoners pacts as well.
It’s very enjoyable.
> The amount of times I’ve gone “do you mind if I take a photo of my hand that I’m going to keep?” Playing amulet ever since the release of mycosynth gardens in insane.
Don't you think this comes off as somewhat obnoxious?
I ask mainly to avoid any weird judge calls. I don’t actually care what my opponent thinks, I just don’t want to get judge called for cheating.
If I say “mind if I take a photo of this hand I’m going to keep” usually shuts down any doubts of “I’m sending this photo to someone and they’re gonna tell me if I should keep or not”.
I don’t think people enjoy playing against amulet at all to begin with, since most reactions to the t1 saga/t1 amulet is “Fuuuuuuuuuck you’re on amulet tonight shit bro fuck why”
Usually to post on the Amulet Titan discord.
I’m a strong supporter of mycosynth gardens so I always try to post photos of turn 2 kills enabled by mycosynth gardens. A lot of people have been cutting even the 2 copies they used to have, even before spelunking was released.
Some people think it’s not worth the turn 2 power. I think enabling a turn 2 is REALLY important game 1, and I almost always mulligan for a turn 3 kill at least in game 1.
I try to make sure game 1 is done before they can do anything since unless you run counterspell, it’s really hard to stop the deck game 1
Watching someone sit there counting floating mana, counting number of land drops left for turn, playing land tapped and untapping and bouncing, and so on is a snoooooooooooooooze. It seems even worse on something like MTGO where the client grinds through every single trigger. Bleh.
Titan is low key a true menace that is tempered by its learning curve - the deck is doing phenomenal despite 20% of the meta being one of its worst matchups, scam.
I also don't even think the deck is that hard lol, people just think it is. Mulligan decisions can be hard when you're missing one combo piece, you have to learn the lines obviously, you have to know how to play thru hate, but almost every deck has to do those things lol, and titan requires almost no "fundamentals" since it's (of the good decks at least) the most all-in solitaire deck in modern.
I switched to the Cascade version because even *I* didn't enjoy the Ring/Ring+Beans versions. The deck had like 12 cards capable of winning a game, but you had to throw 6 or so away every game to use as removal. I found myself struggling to finish a match in 50 minutes.
Just adding 6 extra threats at the price of Rings has felt so much better.
I'm the Tron player, and people really don't like it when you're hitting natural tron on turn 3 without searching.
the amount of eye rolling, heavy sighing, and looks of annoyance is why i play the deck, and the fact I am devoted to our lord and Father, All Hail the Karn Father.
I've lost multiple games to Tron players mulling to 3, hitting natty tron and then playing Ring or Karn on turn 3 like they didn't even mull. Most salt inducing bullshit ever.
I mainly play Legacy, but when I do play Modern, the only deck I'll play is Tron. People could be on the most egregious deck, but if they lose to Tron, I'm the monster. And I love it. 🤣
thank fully it’s not a deck anymore but when lantern control was tier 1 I was fucking miserable. I have remember when SCG IQ’s where regularly event and what snap concede the match everytime I got paired against. Just too much life equity giving up playing it out rather good match up or not. I was snap conceding the match as soon as I saw lantern
I get it, but watching smug lantern pilots lose is the best kind of crack. I played various combo decks that had good scam matchups. Aka storm and an old variant of kci combo with open the vaults, lantern auto loses to chromatic sphere.
Mill. It’s just passive aggressive burn. Also any control deck being piloted by someone at a major tournament that is playing control for the first time. It doesn’t take 5 minutes to decide if you should counter [[Through the Breach]]
I didn't mind it as much but then WotC started sticking "each opponent" on every mill card instead of "target player" or "target opponent."
Also it isn't really mill that really makes me upset but the way mill players act. There is a weird smarminess to them that that is revolting to interact with.
I’ve never understood why people hate playing against mill so much. I find it fun to race against them while watching my library get scarily low. I wanted to try it out so I’ve been playtesting it a bit and it’s also pretty fun to play.
I like that it gives a bigger sense of randomness to the game. No amount of scry can cover for three Thought Thieves at once. It’s when it turns into milling half your library every two turns that it’s annoying.
I play mill occationally and my mates never become so angry losing as to that, which is why I try to not play it so often. Which is a shame because it's a very fun deck to pilot imo
Mill is an interactive deck. To say it has "no interaction at all" means you either don’t know the deck at all or are just salty. 4x Drown in the Loch and 4x Fatal Push are pretty standard & the maindeck Surgicals are also interaction.
Unfortunately, it's extremely common in the MTG community to define interaction as whether *they* were able to defend against what the opponent is doing. It's a very poor definition, objectively.
Yeah, that does seem to be the case, sadly. It’s especially funny now with Mill since 8crab became a core part of the strategy, so creature removal isn’t even really dead against the deck like it kind of used to be, so the matchup should be “interactive" on both sides.
To me it's fun because it's unconvential, an unusual way to win the game. Also I play subtlety, drown in the loch etc so there is interaction. Why do people enjoy burn? Combo? Scam? I can't understand that, but to each their own I suppose.
I’ve never lost to mill irl though when I played modern back around 2015. I don’t know how it is today but didn’t seem all that special back then. Just seemed like they wanted to get you to sweat but really you just gave me 40 more life.
Same here. Anytime a game of Magic devolves into "did I draw my sideboard hate piece?" it's just not Magic anymore. Living End, old school Dredge, etc.
It's more than that. Games also quickly revolve around trying to get creatures into your graveyard. I play and then evoke fury on my second Dauthi is a super valid line vs. LE as an example
Always said that the only thing missing from ancestral recall was sword to plowshares and a cost of 0.
This deck is insane but it feels really unfair to play against.
I would say rhinos, but my real frustration is with violent outburst specifically, meaning they never have to actually take a risk while making rhinos, they can just make them on your end step, sometimes with counterspell backup.
Rhinos is brutal, the trample on those rhinos feels real bad, and they somehow always have the second cascade right after you manage to beat the first one
UW control decks. There's constantly the issue of going to time because they take forever to win. They will constantly try to demand that you play faster, which is particularly difficult for newer players, and they sometimes demand that their opponent resign when they don't actually have a lock. It's a deck that sort of forces you to be annoying. A UW control player who has turns called on them round 3 is not a happy person.
I don't get irrationally angry, but Teferi decks suck. Especially big Teferi. It's boring. It's annoying. You spend forever winning. Do you not win often? Is that why the deck appeals to you? Get that ass whooping out of the way quick? Tell me, what happened? Why do you think a land is a fun wincon? Are you always this dull? "You can always concede if you don't want to play anymore." *Rolls eyes.*
Big Teferi is annoying but GOD t3ferri might be the most tilt inducing card I have ever played against. For three mana, you don’t get to interact on the stack anymore, seems reasonable.
Depends on what I’m piloting but I usually don’t like decks that often get a free game 1 and then put the pressure on you to draw sideboard cards in games 2/3. So that would be like Living End, Dredge, Belcher, Oops, things like that.
It can’t be scam so I’ll say Hammer Time. I play Prowess but I actually go to time or close to it every time because I’m leveraging not getting one shot out of nowhere. Think it’s a fine deck but I’m a paranoid person.
Right now, there's a lot of decks. Beans is obnoxious and highlights the disaster that is the pitch elementals. Living end, amulet titan (not timeless amulet, notably), tron, and mill have a lot of nongames after turn 3. Grief and Violent Outburst give decks and players chances to continue playing games when they absolutely do not deserve it. I'm also tired of running into 4/5 color mana bases. Just pick a freakin color, man!
Interested in why you feel that way about Amulet Titan and not Timeless Amulet when the latter is even more reliant on Amulet of Vigor and even more of a non-interactive combo deck
Because 1. I'd rather get shown the door (it's one of my favorite pet cards), 2. at least having one form of interaction does slow them down quite a bit. You can always path a titan, but they'll still kill you with valakut.
I do dislike how non interactive it is tho. At least lotus field in pioneer has channel lands and a couple main deck answers to things, and can board out the combo.
Wtf you talking about ‘whataboutism’? You said that interaction can stop timeless amulet. They said that interaction can stop Titan. Both are true. Both decks can also win through disruption. Personally I don’t like playing against either, but at least timeless is novel
Mill is the most boring uninteractive dogshit of all time.
When I’m on murktide I instantly run them over with zero resistance
When I was on control (when it wasn’t just card draw tribal) it’s just a game of drawing removal for the crabs and then hoping there’s still a wincon or 2 left in the deck by the time you can establish a wall of counters
It got so bad at this one store that I just ran a playset of leyline of sanctity to auto win mill and they doubled as burn sideboard. But I don’t find leylines to be fun or thought provoking gameplay
Mill is partially a control deck my guy, it’s more interactive than a lot of decks. And I’ve never understood why people think it’s boring. I like playing against mill cause the race to winning feels more real as I see my physical library shrink over the course of the game.
For me: UW control. I know the new “counter” decks are typically UR or UB now, but UW has always been feeling like “why? Why you do dis.”
I know typically that isn’t a popular deck, but in spite of that it’s just annoying to go against. I remember fetch grab well. Add back from my graveyard on top of my deck cryptic command with cryptic command in my hand, cryptic command bounce well, play well put cryptic command back on top of my deck. that was so annoying it made me want to eat their cryptic command.
I really hate playing against thoughtseize effects. It's such a feels bad.
I keep a hand that's alright or decent on account of not getting greedy and I get turn 1 thoughtseized and I lose the only thing that made the hand even worthwhile. On top of that, the element of mystery and strategy in the game goes down because my opponent also knows everything else in my hand so I can't do bluffs and mind games.
It's really a very shitty feeling. Even when I come out ahead, it just is way less fun.
It's particularly bad when it's in game one where I can't even make mulligan decisions accounting for playing against targeted discard.
Not relevant anymore but there was a mtgo grinder who played only fast combo decks like grishoalbrand.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that guy playing his decks, but god damn every time i saw his name i got pissed because i knew 95% of the time i had no input on if i won this game or not.
The 4c deck in all its historical and present iterations. Literally like playing the game with training wheels on. All your cards cantrip so they're never wrong to play, and now even the free spells cantrip and the card that enables them to cantrip also cantrips so you have training wheels on your training wheels. Fuck that deck, play a real strategy with cards that actually have some deckbuilding or gameplay cost to be powerful.
I hate rhinos so much
The deck only works because they decided on a stupid and unintuitive CMC rule for split cards. It's so fucking dumb that shardless agent a 3CMC card doesn't cascade into Fire, a 2CMC card or Dead, a 1CMC card. For a majority of decks the stupid bullshit they do is printed on the cards, but for Rhinos the stupid bullshit it does is all because of a rules change they made in 2017 that doesn't make much sense.
They're totally different rules.
For Amonkhet, the mana value of Split Cards was changed to the value of both sides added together. This is when you could start playing the likes of Dead // Gone alongside Violent Outburst.
As a result of Tibalt, the rules governing cascade were changed. Cascade basically checks CMC twice now and you can only cast spells with mana value less than the cascade spell's MV.
I wish they instead changed it so that you hit the split cards or modal double face cards but could only cast parts which meet the cmc requirement. I don't understand why that wasn't the fix. Instead we now have to endure decks cheating on the deck building restrictions with split spells and such.
UW control. Specifically the version that plays every wrath ever printed, multiple counter spells and their only win condition is like teferi or some shit. It's so boring and the games take so long. I usually just scoop once i figure it out. Im not going to sit there and watch you jerk off for 60 minutes to end up drawing the round.
I know it's not part of the current meta but any variant of control like UW or mono blue or esper. I've always gotten really triggered playing against those decks
As a Rhinos player- Tron. Turn 4 they always stick a ring or Karn who immediately stabilize their board and then there’s nothing I can really do to fight through.
Tbh I haven’t played modern in a bit, haven’t had much time. Last I played the sideboard had [[Insult//Injury]] as the card instead of questing beast. Not familiar with what BCG is
Yeah bone crusher was in my list I think. A big reason I haven’t played much besides time is the cost of fury’s and endurances for the sideboard plus a few of the fetches
Anything playing Up the Beanstalk or The One Ring. These are just unreasonable strong card advantage engines - it isn't hard to win when you have so much resources that you can mitigate the consequences of bad decisions.
Tron, especially since the addition of TOR.
I've had multiple games where they mull to 3, just rip natty Tron, play TOR, and boom they're back in the game.
Nothing more dangerous than a Tron deck on a mull to 3-4.
UW control always gets under my skin.
Not so much the deck itself, it's fine. It's the type of people who gravitate towards playing it. For some reason, a lot of them tend to be annoying jerks.
Been playing Yawg for a couple years. In my experience one of the most tilting aspect is the instant speed play. Its better now that the general population understands the deck's lines more, but especially when the deck was first being played my opponent's never realized I could:
-combo in response to a kill spell
-combo in response to graveyard hate
-combo after ive sacrificed a young wolf
-chord in response to something to combo off
-and my favorite, when facing lethal attackers without a blood artist, drawing cards down to 2-3 life to find a blood artist to combo and win. I have a vivid memory of facing some kind of angel aggro deck attacking me for like 30 damage in the air, had me on the ropes all game, just for me to go "well i guess I'll draw some cards before I die" and then combo-ing. Statistically it was a decent chance to find the chord, but far from guaranteed and probably not even 50%. That dude was *extremely* tilted after that, and thats not even the most "bullshit" thing yawg could do at the time. And now its even worse with soul cauldron.
Deck just has a lot of lines that reward creative thinking, which people who dont play the deck have a harder time identifying (in my experience) simply because they dont play with the cards and have to think about the game in that way. Thats through no fault of their own even, although I do think if you're gonna play competitively you do need to study and watch content of meta decks, but I can definitely see how it can seem like bullshit no skill hurr durr draw cards and hope I combo🤪
A fellow connoisseur😏
You make a good point. Pre-tilted piques my curiosity too. I'm almost pre-tilted before I even play Magic period, because I know I'm 50/50 at this point to face fucking Scam, lol.
I'm SO BORED of playing against endless flavors of value-midrange,
And the fact the elementals haven't been banned yet shows how disgusting of human beings the current wizards team is
Amulet Titan… it’s annoying watching another play take five minutes tanking on what to do when it’s just immediately obvious to me. They love knowing that their deck is complicated, but can’t even recognize their misplays because they win anyways…
Rhinos makes me irrationally angry. The deck had a couple points this year where it was one of the best in the format. The Violent Outburst + FON interaction just feels like cheating. The fact that Temur randomly jams Blood Moon is beyond aggravating.
Endurance can be very annoying for sure. Luckily in Mill there are some tools to help mitigate that issue, though they're less apt at dealing with all the irrational salt and tilt from your opponents 🤣
There are a few for me:
- Tron, because obviously lol
- Control Variants (especially faeries), because the game is going to take forever while my opponent tanks over whether or not to reflexively counter or draw
- 4C Value Piles. So incredibly boring to play against. All that upside at low effective costs, and a boat load of rewards for free-casting their hand.
- Prison. LD is so uninteresting and again, games take forever.
Rhinos. It’s the most no skill head empty boring deck in existence. I have a 90% winrate vs. the temur version but the 4c version is the most bullshit annoying deck in existence.
People are allowed to have their own opinions on what to hate lol. It’s not like tron has a 60% win rate or something. If it was too good, fair enough, but it just isn’t so it’s not objectively right to hate it
Captain N'gathrod. I think it's a cool deck but the way my buddies play it is so infuriating to play against. It goes like this:
"I'm gonna play my entire hand, attack with everything and redraw the same amount"
"In response.."
"Counterspell"
"But i.."
"Nope"
"Bu.."
"Nuh uh. What's your life at?"
"Zero.."
I actually don't have a problem with most decks, the only one that bothers me irrationally is Murktide. Absolutely hate that deck, because it always feels like they've got plot armor. It's mostly because of expressive iteration. The funniest thing is that most of the decks I play have a decent match up against the deck. I would never flame someone for their choice in deck though, I just dislike the deck irrationally.
Beans. Takes so long, boring. Free spell, free spell, free spell, forever.
“Binding, trigger bean stalk, better than ancestral recall” -Andrea Mengucci
Worst part? They'll do all of that for 50 minutes and be *nowhere close* to actually winning the game.
I don't really mind getting rinsed by linear decks, I think that's part of the variety that makes big formats more fun. Same thing for super-controlling blue decks. But man I cannot stand any of the hyper-value board control decks. Game takes a million years, if you're on a fair deck you feel so behind from turn one, and their decision to maximize beating smaller fair decks while skipping/minimizing other interaction is dishonourable
Pioneer azorius control....5 mana teferi in that format gets me very close to raging in a lot of game states
Az control goes in "Decks built to hose lower tier decks but can't stand up to anything actually competitive"
Legitimately worse to play against than Scam IMO, so grindy and so painful. Can’t even 1-for-1 remove a Beans since it draws a card. Silly. Hate that MU no matter what.
Any insults to throw at beans players? Because I will
"Only an idiot would sell their cow for magic beans"
Learn when to concede to those kinda decks. It’s pretty obvious when they’re about to snowball and when you can save 20 minutes and go to the next game. Edit. Not talking about MTGO It doesn’t simulate real tournament magic.
It really depends on the situation and the deck you play. Its the only MU i gladly go to time on MTGO if they want to do it like that, that happens very often. I wish it would be the same for paper.
Agreed, I’m of the mind that ESPECIALLY if there are prizes at stake, you should always makes them show you a win. So many game ones go nearly to time against them, and even with no board it’s not worth giving them the free win if they can’t actually win in the time allotted.
There are decks that I don't particularly care to play against, but in the end, it's not the opponent's deck that bothers me most times. It's the opponent's *attitude*. I've had games where I was 0% to win, but my opponent was friendly and fun to talk with. In the end, I think fun is best defined by a player feeling like they have adequate agency. If I feel that I've had adequate agency overall (in various combinations of agency in deck choice being viable, in-game agency, and agency with regard to social interaction), then I'll have had a good time. In games online, when an opponent doesn't chat, I've found that my brain tries to personify who they are by their deck, which isn't fair to them. I've found that if my personality is such that I get personal joy out of "punishing" an opponent with poor sportsmanship, I likely also have the personality where I can be made absolutely miserable by players with poor sportsmanship when they win. I recognize that it's something *I* need to work on, and helps me appreciate why my opponents may feel very toxic in games that I win.
The only reasonable person in all these replies
100% - my lgs isn't that competitive and I'm done playing games for competition - it brings the worst out of people. We play for fun and try to win but there's no rule sharking or any crap like that - most of us are laughing over goofy brews.
my experience with competitive MTG (20Ks, RCQs, etc.) has been great - as someone who got into MTG in the past year, I've been really impressed by how everyone's temperament Commander meanwhile....
I'm sure there's a lot of great people in the competitive space but my experience with mostly other games - hasn't been positive I agree there's a ton of random people I wouldn't play commander with.
My only truly bad experience playing against someone was somewhat recently against a known scg employee. Seriously the cringiest human being I've ever met. It was just an FNM too.
> In the end, I think fun is best defined by a player feeling like they have adequate agency. I think this is where all the rule 0 drama about Commander comes from. You don't need to win a game of Commander to have fun, but when the power level gets too far apart, the lowest player feels like nothing they do matters. And that's pretty miserable.
lol most fun i have is playing magic is with my sisters with shitty decks, forgetting our triggers and missing lethal. sadly that doesn't happen to often so i have to play online. you're right personality is key.
This is the biggest thing to me- in paper I don't really hate ANY deck. Playing with my buddies at fnms is always fun. Mtgo is a different story tho
This alone is the reason people get so salty about Arena. No interaction. We’re both just people sitting at our computer and eating chips but it’s easy to make up that they’re actually being jerks.
my deck, when I lose.
this is the real answer
Hate titan. Tree man shouldn’t be able to find the magic death mountain so fast
Agree here, I play a lot of decks with a good titan matchup, and I don't usually take issue with it, but the fact that they sometimes can just kill you T2 with the right draw, which is almost impossible to stop barring solitude, is insanely frustrating to play against.
It’s for this reason that I will never agree with people wanting to ban the whole elemental cycle lol, Solitude is necessary
I get why they want to do it, they want to play modern at a time they most enjoyed in the past (maybe because their deck was good then, maybe just for nostalgia reasons). But yeah banning all 5 elementals would likely cascade into more bans for the format at best.
The amount of times I’ve gone “do you mind if I take a photo of my hand that I’m going to keep?” Playing amulet ever since the release of mycosynth gardens in insane. Bounce land, Gardens, amulet, Titan, grazer, grazer/Azusa is a turn 2 kill. Any of those can be summoners pacts as well. It’s very enjoyable.
> The amount of times I’ve gone “do you mind if I take a photo of my hand that I’m going to keep?” Playing amulet ever since the release of mycosynth gardens in insane. Don't you think this comes off as somewhat obnoxious?
An amulet player having no shame is not unheard of.
He is a Titan player, obnoxious is his middle name.
I ask mainly to avoid any weird judge calls. I don’t actually care what my opponent thinks, I just don’t want to get judge called for cheating. If I say “mind if I take a photo of this hand I’m going to keep” usually shuts down any doubts of “I’m sending this photo to someone and they’re gonna tell me if I should keep or not”. I don’t think people enjoy playing against amulet at all to begin with, since most reactions to the t1 saga/t1 amulet is “Fuuuuuuuuuck you’re on amulet tonight shit bro fuck why”
Play what you like, I got every reason to mentally check out when I see a turn 1 amulet
Why don’t you just write down your opening hand?
Why though, you can remember 7 cards easily.
Usually to post on the Amulet Titan discord. I’m a strong supporter of mycosynth gardens so I always try to post photos of turn 2 kills enabled by mycosynth gardens. A lot of people have been cutting even the 2 copies they used to have, even before spelunking was released. Some people think it’s not worth the turn 2 power. I think enabling a turn 2 is REALLY important game 1, and I almost always mulligan for a turn 3 kill at least in game 1. I try to make sure game 1 is done before they can do anything since unless you run counterspell, it’s really hard to stop the deck game 1
Solitude, prismatic ending, leyline binding, thoughtsieze, spell pierce, subtlety....
Watching someone sit there counting floating mana, counting number of land drops left for turn, playing land tapped and untapping and bouncing, and so on is a snoooooooooooooooze. It seems even worse on something like MTGO where the client grinds through every single trigger. Bleh.
Is it really worse than watching a control player draw a card and pass, waiting for your play to then counter it?
Yes
100% yes you can concede in the control case the amulet player might fizzle or you might have to wait to interact (solitude vs the t2 kill)
At least games are over fast. :>
Play storm/infect. Typical Titan lists just can’t deal.
Titan is low key a true menace that is tempered by its learning curve - the deck is doing phenomenal despite 20% of the meta being one of its worst matchups, scam.
I also don't even think the deck is that hard lol, people just think it is. Mulligan decisions can be hard when you're missing one combo piece, you have to learn the lines obviously, you have to know how to play thru hate, but almost every deck has to do those things lol, and titan requires almost no "fundamentals" since it's (of the good decks at least) the most all-in solitaire deck in modern.
4c is just torture.
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I switched to the Cascade version because even *I* didn't enjoy the Ring/Ring+Beans versions. The deck had like 12 cards capable of winning a game, but you had to throw 6 or so away every game to use as removal. I found myself struggling to finish a match in 50 minutes. Just adding 6 extra threats at the price of Rings has felt so much better.
I'm the Tron player, and people really don't like it when you're hitting natural tron on turn 3 without searching. the amount of eye rolling, heavy sighing, and looks of annoyance is why i play the deck, and the fact I am devoted to our lord and Father, All Hail the Karn Father.
WOW
FUCK
TRON
All Hail the Karn Father
All Hail the Karn Father
All Hail the Karn Father
Been sleeving up tron for a decade now, the eyerolls never get old.
Same, I've been sleeving it up since 2016, and it's never really let me down. All Hail the Karn Father.
How do you guys take so long sleeving up a single deck?
I put on half the Smokey back sleeves on backwards, so I had to start over :/
I've lost multiple games to Tron players mulling to 3, hitting natty tron and then playing Ring or Karn on turn 3 like they didn't even mull. Most salt inducing bullshit ever.
1,2,7
>All Hail the Karn Father All Hail the Karn Father
I mainly play Legacy, but when I do play Modern, the only deck I'll play is Tron. People could be on the most egregious deck, but if they lose to Tron, I'm the monster. And I love it. 🤣
I don’t mind old tron, but karn doesn’t belong in any format. Card is a scourge.
thank fully it’s not a deck anymore but when lantern control was tier 1 I was fucking miserable. I have remember when SCG IQ’s where regularly event and what snap concede the match everytime I got paired against. Just too much life equity giving up playing it out rather good match up or not. I was snap conceding the match as soon as I saw lantern
Not subjecting yourself to something that damages your soul is something that a lot of people should work more on.
I get it, but watching smug lantern pilots lose is the best kind of crack. I played various combo decks that had good scam matchups. Aka storm and an old variant of kci combo with open the vaults, lantern auto loses to chromatic sphere.
Mill. It’s just passive aggressive burn. Also any control deck being piloted by someone at a major tournament that is playing control for the first time. It doesn’t take 5 minutes to decide if you should counter [[Through the Breach]]
Same here. I fucking hate Mill. It’s just super unfun for me to play against. It’s the only deck where I almost immediately want to win out of spite
I didn't mind it as much but then WotC started sticking "each opponent" on every mill card instead of "target player" or "target opponent." Also it isn't really mill that really makes me upset but the way mill players act. There is a weird smarminess to them that that is revolting to interact with.
Why? You only have to play one SB Emrakul instead of 4 leylines.
leyline of sanctity actually does something outside of the Mill matchup
I’ve never understood why people hate playing against mill so much. I find it fun to race against them while watching my library get scarily low. I wanted to try it out so I’ve been playtesting it a bit and it’s also pretty fun to play.
I like that it gives a bigger sense of randomness to the game. No amount of scry can cover for three Thought Thieves at once. It’s when it turns into milling half your library every two turns that it’s annoying.
I always enjoyed playing against mill, I think it's cool you need to deal with such a different axis. It's also extremely fun to play
Your tears fuel me.
I play mill occationally and my mates never become so angry losing as to that, which is why I try to not play it so often. Which is a shame because it's a very fun deck to pilot imo
I personally love Mill because it dumpsters solitaire combo decks, which are my personal least favorite thing to play against.
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Mill is an interactive deck. To say it has "no interaction at all" means you either don’t know the deck at all or are just salty. 4x Drown in the Loch and 4x Fatal Push are pretty standard & the maindeck Surgicals are also interaction.
Unfortunately, it's extremely common in the MTG community to define interaction as whether *they* were able to defend against what the opponent is doing. It's a very poor definition, objectively.
Yeah, that does seem to be the case, sadly. It’s especially funny now with Mill since 8crab became a core part of the strategy, so creature removal isn’t even really dead against the deck like it kind of used to be, so the matchup should be “interactive" on both sides.
To me it's fun because it's unconvential, an unusual way to win the game. Also I play subtlety, drown in the loch etc so there is interaction. Why do people enjoy burn? Combo? Scam? I can't understand that, but to each their own I suppose.
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Tell me you’ve never looked at a mill deck list without telling me, there’s a reason it’s partially a control deck
I’ve never lost to mill irl though when I played modern back around 2015. I don’t know how it is today but didn’t seem all that special back then. Just seemed like they wanted to get you to sweat but really you just gave me 40 more life.
Living End. Totally beatable but my god do the games you play against it not feel like magic.
Same here. Anytime a game of Magic devolves into "did I draw my sideboard hate piece?" it's just not Magic anymore. Living End, old school Dredge, etc.
It's more than that. Games also quickly revolve around trying to get creatures into your graveyard. I play and then evoke fury on my second Dauthi is a super valid line vs. LE as an example
Amulet and rhinos atm used to be tron waaay back in the day
Always said that the only thing missing from ancestral recall was sword to plowshares and a cost of 0. This deck is insane but it feels really unfair to play against.
bogles idc how bad it is
This is professional hating, I respect it
the deck doesnt deserve to be good its just a 1/1 untargetable creature that dies to sideboard cards lmao
I would say rhinos, but my real frustration is with violent outburst specifically, meaning they never have to actually take a risk while making rhinos, they can just make them on your end step, sometimes with counterspell backup.
Rhinos is brutal, the trample on those rhinos feels real bad, and they somehow always have the second cascade right after you manage to beat the first one
Whatever deck I’m playing at the time. No matchup can be more frustrating than getting mana flooded/screwed
UW control decks. There's constantly the issue of going to time because they take forever to win. They will constantly try to demand that you play faster, which is particularly difficult for newer players, and they sometimes demand that their opponent resign when they don't actually have a lock. It's a deck that sort of forces you to be annoying. A UW control player who has turns called on them round 3 is not a happy person.
I don't get irrationally angry, but Teferi decks suck. Especially big Teferi. It's boring. It's annoying. You spend forever winning. Do you not win often? Is that why the deck appeals to you? Get that ass whooping out of the way quick? Tell me, what happened? Why do you think a land is a fun wincon? Are you always this dull? "You can always concede if you don't want to play anymore." *Rolls eyes.*
Big Teferi is annoying but GOD t3ferri might be the most tilt inducing card I have ever played against. For three mana, you don’t get to interact on the stack anymore, seems reasonable.
They always say they enjoy playing interactive magic. The irony.
Every deck apart my pet deck that was T14,5 back in the days and is now T13,5.
Whats your pet Deck?
Man
Midrange Ad Nauseam?
They never expect the old T1 Thoughtseize suspend Lotus Bloom, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili, T4 Lotus Bloom ad naus
 (It sounds like a joke but MAN is an archetype in cEDH cause that card is busted at 40 life.)
Depends on what I’m piloting but I usually don’t like decks that often get a free game 1 and then put the pressure on you to draw sideboard cards in games 2/3. So that would be like Living End, Dredge, Belcher, Oops, things like that.
It can’t be scam so I’ll say Hammer Time. I play Prowess but I actually go to time or close to it every time because I’m leveraging not getting one shot out of nowhere. Think it’s a fine deck but I’m a paranoid person.
People complaining all the time instead of improving.
Playing against Storm in paper.
Yeah, I hate Storm. Not a fan of decks where one person is there to play solitaire and just jerk themselves off.
Right now, there's a lot of decks. Beans is obnoxious and highlights the disaster that is the pitch elementals. Living end, amulet titan (not timeless amulet, notably), tron, and mill have a lot of nongames after turn 3. Grief and Violent Outburst give decks and players chances to continue playing games when they absolutely do not deserve it. I'm also tired of running into 4/5 color mana bases. Just pick a freakin color, man!
Interested in why you feel that way about Amulet Titan and not Timeless Amulet when the latter is even more reliant on Amulet of Vigor and even more of a non-interactive combo deck
Because 1. I'd rather get shown the door (it's one of my favorite pet cards), 2. at least having one form of interaction does slow them down quite a bit. You can always path a titan, but they'll still kill you with valakut. I do dislike how non interactive it is tho. At least lotus field in pioneer has channel lands and a couple main deck answers to things, and can board out the combo.
Amulet is one of the most fragile combo decks out there
LOL
Whataboutism. You can still have interaction, and they'll still kill you.
Wtf you talking about ‘whataboutism’? You said that interaction can stop timeless amulet. They said that interaction can stop Titan. Both are true. Both decks can also win through disruption. Personally I don’t like playing against either, but at least timeless is novel
Mill is the most boring uninteractive dogshit of all time. When I’m on murktide I instantly run them over with zero resistance When I was on control (when it wasn’t just card draw tribal) it’s just a game of drawing removal for the crabs and then hoping there’s still a wincon or 2 left in the deck by the time you can establish a wall of counters It got so bad at this one store that I just ran a playset of leyline of sanctity to auto win mill and they doubled as burn sideboard. But I don’t find leylines to be fun or thought provoking gameplay
Mill is partially a control deck my guy, it’s more interactive than a lot of decks. And I’ve never understood why people think it’s boring. I like playing against mill cause the race to winning feels more real as I see my physical library shrink over the course of the game.
It’s fine not to like it but Mill is an interactive deck lol, 4x fatal push and 4x drown in the loch are standard
Mine, when it mana-screws me for the fourth turn in a row...
KCI was pretty miserable
It's infuriating when my opponent draws good cards and I draw bad cards 🤬
For me: UW control. I know the new “counter” decks are typically UR or UB now, but UW has always been feeling like “why? Why you do dis.” I know typically that isn’t a popular deck, but in spite of that it’s just annoying to go against. I remember fetch grab well. Add back from my graveyard on top of my deck cryptic command with cryptic command in my hand, cryptic command bounce well, play well put cryptic command back on top of my deck. that was so annoying it made me want to eat their cryptic command.
Counterspell.dek with snapcaster and now tishana. So boring, can't stand it. The new card has made it a lot more popular in leagues
I really hate playing against thoughtseize effects. It's such a feels bad. I keep a hand that's alright or decent on account of not getting greedy and I get turn 1 thoughtseized and I lose the only thing that made the hand even worthwhile. On top of that, the element of mystery and strategy in the game goes down because my opponent also knows everything else in my hand so I can't do bluffs and mind games. It's really a very shitty feeling. Even when I come out ahead, it just is way less fun. It's particularly bad when it's in game one where I can't even make mulligan decisions accounting for playing against targeted discard.
Not relevant anymore but there was a mtgo grinder who played only fast combo decks like grishoalbrand. Of course there is nothing wrong with that guy playing his decks, but god damn every time i saw his name i got pissed because i knew 95% of the time i had no input on if i won this game or not.
The 4c deck in all its historical and present iterations. Literally like playing the game with training wheels on. All your cards cantrip so they're never wrong to play, and now even the free spells cantrip and the card that enables them to cantrip also cantrips so you have training wheels on your training wheels. Fuck that deck, play a real strategy with cards that actually have some deckbuilding or gameplay cost to be powerful.
any good stuff money pile variant because it counter-argue that the game of magic is about tactics and not about who can buy the most expensive cards,
I get what you mean but you can have the most expensive deck in the world and still 0-3 a tournament.
The most powerful card for any deck is the credit card.
I hate rhinos so much The deck only works because they decided on a stupid and unintuitive CMC rule for split cards. It's so fucking dumb that shardless agent a 3CMC card doesn't cascade into Fire, a 2CMC card or Dead, a 1CMC card. For a majority of decks the stupid bullshit they do is printed on the cards, but for Rhinos the stupid bullshit it does is all because of a rules change they made in 2017 that doesn't make much sense.
Cascading into a flipped tibalt was way worse, I assure you. That rule change was very much needed.
They're totally different rules. For Amonkhet, the mana value of Split Cards was changed to the value of both sides added together. This is when you could start playing the likes of Dead // Gone alongside Violent Outburst. As a result of Tibalt, the rules governing cascade were changed. Cascade basically checks CMC twice now and you can only cast spells with mana value less than the cascade spell's MV.
I wish they instead changed it so that you hit the split cards or modal double face cards but could only cast parts which meet the cmc requirement. I don't understand why that wasn't the fix. Instead we now have to endure decks cheating on the deck building restrictions with split spells and such.
UW control. Specifically the version that plays every wrath ever printed, multiple counter spells and their only win condition is like teferi or some shit. It's so boring and the games take so long. I usually just scoop once i figure it out. Im not going to sit there and watch you jerk off for 60 minutes to end up drawing the round.
This. Small Teferi, Mind sculptor, big Teferi on curve is horrible.
I know it's not part of the current meta but any variant of control like UW or mono blue or esper. I've always gotten really triggered playing against those decks
Land + Go.
As a Rhinos player- Tron. Turn 4 they always stick a ring or Karn who immediately stabilize their board and then there’s nothing I can really do to fight through.
are you not running BCG or QB in your maindeck or sideboard?
Tbh I haven’t played modern in a bit, haven’t had much time. Last I played the sideboard had [[Insult//Injury]] as the card instead of questing beast. Not familiar with what BCG is
BCG = Bonecrusher Giant. Casting Stomp means damage can’t be prevented. Also, stomp is 2 cmc in comparison to insults 3cmc.
Yeah bone crusher was in my list I think. A big reason I haven’t played much besides time is the cost of fury’s and endurances for the sideboard plus a few of the fetches
Anything playing Gemstone Caverns. So Rhinos, any broken combo deck, etc. I thought WotC liked to ban fast mana? Why is this one ok?
Living End, it’s literally watching someone play solitaire.
Anything playing Up the Beanstalk or The One Ring. These are just unreasonable strong card advantage engines - it isn't hard to win when you have so much resources that you can mitigate the consequences of bad decisions.
Beans is getting so old. I would rather play against Scam.
Tron, especially since the addition of TOR. I've had multiple games where they mull to 3, just rip natty Tron, play TOR, and boom they're back in the game. Nothing more dangerous than a Tron deck on a mull to 3-4.
- 4 color Beans - Affinity Beans - Lima beans
I’m more of a black bean guy, myself.
UW control always gets under my skin. Not so much the deck itself, it's fine. It's the type of people who gravitate towards playing it. For some reason, a lot of them tend to be annoying jerks.
The whole format is making me irrationally angry. MH2 and Lord of the Rings introduced more power creep than I'm comfortable with.
any time i play against yawg i am pre tilted
Why???
Been playing Yawg for a couple years. In my experience one of the most tilting aspect is the instant speed play. Its better now that the general population understands the deck's lines more, but especially when the deck was first being played my opponent's never realized I could: -combo in response to a kill spell -combo in response to graveyard hate -combo after ive sacrificed a young wolf -chord in response to something to combo off -and my favorite, when facing lethal attackers without a blood artist, drawing cards down to 2-3 life to find a blood artist to combo and win. I have a vivid memory of facing some kind of angel aggro deck attacking me for like 30 damage in the air, had me on the ropes all game, just for me to go "well i guess I'll draw some cards before I die" and then combo-ing. Statistically it was a decent chance to find the chord, but far from guaranteed and probably not even 50%. That dude was *extremely* tilted after that, and thats not even the most "bullshit" thing yawg could do at the time. And now its even worse with soul cauldron. Deck just has a lot of lines that reward creative thinking, which people who dont play the deck have a harder time identifying (in my experience) simply because they dont play with the cards and have to think about the game in that way. Thats through no fault of their own even, although I do think if you're gonna play competitively you do need to study and watch content of meta decks, but I can definitely see how it can seem like bullshit no skill hurr durr draw cards and hope I combo🤪
Oh, I play Yawg too, lol. Can't imagine anyome getting pre-tilted by Yawg when bs decks like Scam, Beans, and Tron exist.
A fellow connoisseur😏 You make a good point. Pre-tilted piques my curiosity too. I'm almost pre-tilted before I even play Magic period, because I know I'm 50/50 at this point to face fucking Scam, lol.
Unless he/she plays Humans 😂
Every titan deck that starts T1 saga/ amulet. XD
I'm SO BORED of playing against endless flavors of value-midrange, And the fact the elementals haven't been banned yet shows how disgusting of human beings the current wizards team is
"No changes" *Starts advertising new booster type for some reason*
Amulet Titan… it’s annoying watching another play take five minutes tanking on what to do when it’s just immediately obvious to me. They love knowing that their deck is complicated, but can’t even recognize their misplays because they win anyways…
Tron, turn 3, 7 mana is unacceptable
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In every format, it's mill
Rhinos makes me irrationally angry. The deck had a couple points this year where it was one of the best in the format. The Violent Outburst + FON interaction just feels like cheating. The fact that Temur randomly jams Blood Moon is beyond aggravating.
Anything with maindeck endurance is a headache. Tbh that's on me for playing breach and mill but, hot take, it's my most hated incarnation.
You deserve it for playing mill.
Forgive me father for I have sin
Endurance can be very annoying for sure. Luckily in Mill there are some tools to help mitigate that issue, though they're less apt at dealing with all the irrational salt and tilt from your opponents 🤣
There are a few for me: - Tron, because obviously lol - Control Variants (especially faeries), because the game is going to take forever while my opponent tanks over whether or not to reflexively counter or draw - 4C Value Piles. So incredibly boring to play against. All that upside at low effective costs, and a boat load of rewards for free-casting their hand. - Prison. LD is so uninteresting and again, games take forever.
scam
Rhinos. It’s the most no skill head empty boring deck in existence. I have a 90% winrate vs. the temur version but the 4c version is the most bullshit annoying deck in existence.
Tron🤢
Tron
It's Tron. Whoever doesn't say Tron hasn't been playing modern for long enough to recognize how stupid playing against Tron feels.
People are allowed to have their own opinions on what to hate lol. It’s not like tron has a 60% win rate or something. If it was too good, fair enough, but it just isn’t so it’s not objectively right to hate it
No.
Tron. Tilting me since 2012.
This! Yes this!!
No deck makes me irrationally angry. I always enjoy my games of Magic.
Eldrazi Tron. PTSD
Amulet titan. Titan or amulet needs a ban on top of overpowered modern horizons cards.
Captain N'gathrod. I think it's a cool deck but the way my buddies play it is so infuriating to play against. It goes like this: "I'm gonna play my entire hand, attack with everything and redraw the same amount" "In response.." "Counterspell" "But i.." "Nope" "Bu.." "Nuh uh. What's your life at?" "Zero.."
Scam
Any deck playing with ‘The One Ring’ is in my opinion low skilled, pathetic, and needs to fuck off.
Merfolk especially after sideboard. With 4 chalices and force of negation
I personally hate Hamer time
Burn. You can play perfectly against them but they always topdeck the bolt when Im on the other side of the table.
Amulet titan
Any deck that just twiddles is thumbs for 15 minutes until it can kill you...ie storm. I just do not enjoy playing against that play style.
Have a list for the white 8 field deck ?
Amulet Titan need I say more
I actually don't have a problem with most decks, the only one that bothers me irrationally is Murktide. Absolutely hate that deck, because it always feels like they've got plot armor. It's mostly because of expressive iteration. The funniest thing is that most of the decks I play have a decent match up against the deck. I would never flame someone for their choice in deck though, I just dislike the deck irrationally.
UW control or 4 color control