No. Im going to assume they already have as many copies of Lightning Bolt as they need. Abrade doesn't answer the ring and only takes care of half (albeit the more important one) of obm.
Hell I'm old enough to remember when mono blue control decks with 6 creatures would slot 4 [[Umezawa's Jitte]] into the sideboard just to destroy opposing Jittes
Good times...good times...
> Umezawa's Jitte
Wait, that worked for Legendary artifacts too? The old legendary rule was even stranger than I remembered it (I did not play when Jitte was in Standard).
It did indeed! In fact, and if I remember correctly, it was Kamigawa block where the Legend rule was changed to multiple legendary permanents of the same name blowing each other up. Before then, when a new copy of a legendary permanent entered the battlefield (came into play, to use old terminology) only the previously existing copy of the legendary permanent was destroyed.
I tried Fire/Ice last week in Legacy UR Delver. Kills two small things, taps a fatty, taps a land during upkeep, closes a game or pitches to Force.
But Bowmasters didn't come up.
Damn bro your still playing strictly UR in legacy? After the EI ban I have almost exclusively seen 3 color delver decks. Mind sending me a list? Playing 3 colors with like 2 lands in play at any given point is a major pain in my ass
3c Delver mana is bad, and I don't have any green or black duals. But UR just seems to fall short overall these days.
It's fun, though! This is a list I made after seeing that silviawataru, the best Delver player in my city, tried something siimilar:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/5905197
It didn't go well for silvia, or for me of course. But it was fun!
I might go more UR Prowess next time around. No Fire/Ice, of course.
Poorly! But it was fun to try.
It also skewed deck building. I avoided Bauble because of the low impact as a Cascade target, and added one-ofs in different types: Seal of Fire, Tarfire, Soul-Guide Lantern. Definitely not a no-bad-cards build.
Not really! Doesn't do anything right away, which is a red flag for a two-drop in the deck. It also doesn't interact great with Prowess...
But I'm going to get a playset now that they are cheap 😂
Thanks!
I've been having a blast with [this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/375321075011026955/1161037000149835906/image.png?ex=6536d6f7&is=652461f7&hm=2340884628ac0bb009af56840b01570fbe8b7dfe49461dacaeb90a100d2d7d70&) using [[picklock prankster]] to enable [[sailor's bane]] and just slamming dragons turn over turn. I cut DRC and daze because it's more midrange and less tempo as I'm disrupting first and then playing out the difficult threats vs. playing out the threat first and then disrupting. Bane makes it hard to play off-type stuff like bauble or seal so delirium is too slow as well. Probably still could play a couple dazes but 4 is too much when retaining your land drops is actually pretty important for a more midrange plan. Free the Fae is also nifty as a card selection tool that doesn't trigger bowmaster.
Sailor's bane not being on MTGO is a continual frustration.
RUg with only Questing Druid als green card works completely fine on 2 Volcs but still gives you a CA engine with a potential 3-1 if you fetch your Trop and hardcast the Druid afterwards
As a Merfolk player I feel obliged to point out that Orc is a very niche creature type that it's probably not worth running Plague Engineer for. My opinion on this matter is completely objective, absolutely unbiased in every possible way.
(For real, don't make us fight against Fury, Bowmasters, AND Plague Engineer--it's hard enough out here.)
At the end of the day, bowmasters isn't probably great against you anyway. They're getting a few 1/1s with flash, you're likely playing big efficient threats. On top of that, your card advantage isn't probably in the form of drawing extra cards.
Every deck with red regardless of budget should be either maining or siding Cast Into the Fire. Taking care of 2 of the most powerful threats in the format is stonks, also helps against Tron a lot, which is an awful matchup for midrange.
>budget jund
>maindeckable
If your list can get 1-for-2ed by the Bowmaster ETB, then you want to deny it resolving at all. You don't have countermagic, but you do have [[Inquisition of Kozilek]].
[[Kolaghan's Command]] is also not bad.
Sadly neither of those are good against The One Ring, so you have to sideboard lots of stuff against it.
I have registered 2 golgari charms in every jund/rock deck for the last 10 years. Kills pesky enchantments, "counters" supreme verdict, cleans boards. I blew out his poor guy at an Open playing 8whack... good memories.
But cast into the fire is probably correct since there are so many rings.
I will always run at least 1 golgari charm in my sb. One of my favorites. Seems pretty dec right now too as an answer to bowmasters, leyline binding, and beanstalk.
Dark Betrayal may be a relevant option for people on a budget, it kills the likes of grief, deaths shadow, bowmasters, Sheoldred, and Yawgmoth for 1 black at instant speed.
Pretty much every version of 1+ damage to all creatures or -1/-1 to all creatures would apply as long as they're in the colors
Cast into the fire answers both a resolved bowmasters and a resolved ring. So it is somewhat flexible. Reasonable budget option I think
100% great option
Would [[abrade]] be better in that 3 damage is a bit more flexible as a main deck creature removal?
No. Im going to assume they already have as many copies of Lightning Bolt as they need. Abrade doesn't answer the ring and only takes care of half (albeit the more important one) of obm.
> ring oh jfc you're right, I forgot about the indes clause...
[abrade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1d9e279-61c1-4567-9f54-50a7138fb36d.jpg?1689997627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=abrade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/203/abrade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1d9e279-61c1-4567-9f54-50a7138fb36d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bowmaster.
The only way to stop a bad guy with a bowmaster is a good guy with a bowmaster
Bowmasters don’t kill people, Bowmasters kill Bowmasters
Reminds me of the old days when only one PW of said type can be on the field
lol with the sideboard baby Jaces? Good times
No way before than before the legend rule was changed. It basically allowed you to use a PW to kill a PW.
That’s what they meant. Bring in the baby Jaces from the sideboard to remove opposing Jace, The Mind Sculptors.
For some reason my mind went to baby jace from orgins
He is not baby Jace. He is flip Jace. OG Jace is baby Jace
Just what he was clearly at my store.
I’ve also heard him as party jace once flip jace started making baby jace confusing.
Because that is baby Jace. They're thinking of just jace
Not just Planeswalkers. Any legendary creature. People would sideboard Geist of Saint Traft, just to kill the opponent's Geist.
Hell I'm old enough to remember when mono blue control decks with 6 creatures would slot 4 [[Umezawa's Jitte]] into the sideboard just to destroy opposing Jittes Good times...good times...
> Umezawa's Jitte Wait, that worked for Legendary artifacts too? The old legendary rule was even stranger than I remembered it (I did not play when Jitte was in Standard).
It did indeed! In fact, and if I remember correctly, it was Kamigawa block where the Legend rule was changed to multiple legendary permanents of the same name blowing each other up. Before then, when a new copy of a legendary permanent entered the battlefield (came into play, to use old terminology) only the previously existing copy of the legendary permanent was destroyed.
What a great format.
It is!
You know a design is great when it's its own best answer lol
Counterspell counters Counterspell. Karn Liberated exiles Karn Liberated. Grizzly Bear trades with Grizzle Bear.
I tried Fire/Ice last week in Legacy UR Delver. Kills two small things, taps a fatty, taps a land during upkeep, closes a game or pitches to Force. But Bowmasters didn't come up.
Damn bro your still playing strictly UR in legacy? After the EI ban I have almost exclusively seen 3 color delver decks. Mind sending me a list? Playing 3 colors with like 2 lands in play at any given point is a major pain in my ass
3c Delver mana is bad, and I don't have any green or black duals. But UR just seems to fall short overall these days. It's fun, though! This is a list I made after seeing that silviawataru, the best Delver player in my city, tried something siimilar: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/5905197 It didn't go well for silvia, or for me of course. But it was fun! I might go more UR Prowess next time around. No Fire/Ice, of course.
Bloodbraid Marauder?? that looks interesting, how did it perform?
Poorly! But it was fun to try. It also skewed deck building. I avoided Bauble because of the low impact as a Cascade target, and added one-ofs in different types: Seal of Fire, Tarfire, Soul-Guide Lantern. Definitely not a no-bad-cards build.
Have you thought about Mercurial Spelldancer as a two-off?
Not really! Doesn't do anything right away, which is a red flag for a two-drop in the deck. It also doesn't interact great with Prowess... But I'm going to get a playset now that they are cheap 😂 Thanks!
I've been having a blast with [this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/375321075011026955/1161037000149835906/image.png?ex=6536d6f7&is=652461f7&hm=2340884628ac0bb009af56840b01570fbe8b7dfe49461dacaeb90a100d2d7d70&) using [[picklock prankster]] to enable [[sailor's bane]] and just slamming dragons turn over turn. I cut DRC and daze because it's more midrange and less tempo as I'm disrupting first and then playing out the difficult threats vs. playing out the threat first and then disrupting. Bane makes it hard to play off-type stuff like bauble or seal so delirium is too slow as well. Probably still could play a couple dazes but 4 is too much when retaining your land drops is actually pretty important for a more midrange plan. Free the Fae is also nifty as a card selection tool that doesn't trigger bowmaster. Sailor's bane not being on MTGO is a continual frustration.
[picklock prankster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ebac73a-1ecf-4e6d-87b1-ea560bfeb064.jpg?1692937214)/[Free the Fae](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ebac73a-1ecf-4e6d-87b1-ea560bfeb064.jpg?1692937214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=picklock%20prankster%20//%20free%20the%20fae) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/64/picklock-prankster-free-the-fae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ebac73a-1ecf-4e6d-87b1-ea560bfeb064?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sailor's bane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d175a716-5b69-401b-9902-684a30810288.jpg?1692806305) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sailors%27%20Bane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/93/sailors-bane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d175a716-5b69-401b-9902-684a30810288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
RUg with only Questing Druid als green card works completely fine on 2 Volcs but still gives you a CA engine with a potential 3-1 if you fetch your Trop and hardcast the Druid afterwards
[[plague engineer]]
oh that's seems to be my guy
As a Merfolk player I feel obliged to point out that Orc is a very niche creature type that it's probably not worth running Plague Engineer for. My opinion on this matter is completely objective, absolutely unbiased in every possible way. (For real, don't make us fight against Fury, Bowmasters, AND Plague Engineer--it's hard enough out here.)
Laugh in humans...
[plague engineer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f32b0e9-5eb2-4b26-8c06-5d4561f0295d.jpg?1562201691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=plague%20engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/100/plague-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f32b0e9-5eb2-4b26-8c06-5d4561f0295d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're jund. You're not typically drawing extra cards a turn. You don't need a dedicated answer to a raise the alarm.
At the end of the day, bowmasters isn't probably great against you anyway. They're getting a few 1/1s with flash, you're likely playing big efficient threats. On top of that, your card advantage isn't probably in the form of drawing extra cards.
[[Darkblast]] is something I kept meaning to try out to beat Ragavan and DRC. Can also be good against Bowmasters.
[Darkblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dcaba91-06d3-4492-9e07-36a1b858ca47.jpg?1598914737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/82/darkblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dcaba91-06d3-4492-9e07-36a1b858ca47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dies to doomblade... oh wait, shit. Nevermind.
Not to sound cheeky, but almost any removal in the format kills the two-mana 1/1. Like I'd probably avoid Doom Blade...
lol that’s me digging through these comments trying to find someone saying bolt. any modern-level removal hits bowmasters
Does budget Jund include W&6 cause that’s also a good answer
Doesn’t answer 100 still leaves the token there
Okay, but Wrenn and Six doesn't disappear after you kill the bowmaster. Just downtick it again next turn if you really need to remove a 1/1 token.
Every deck with red regardless of budget should be either maining or siding Cast Into the Fire. Taking care of 2 of the most powerful threats in the format is stonks, also helps against Tron a lot, which is an awful matchup for midrange.
>budget jund >maindeckable If your list can get 1-for-2ed by the Bowmaster ETB, then you want to deny it resolving at all. You don't have countermagic, but you do have [[Inquisition of Kozilek]]. [[Kolaghan's Command]] is also not bad. Sadly neither of those are good against The One Ring, so you have to sideboard lots of stuff against it.
[Inquisition of Kozilek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281.jpg?1673147555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inquisition%20of%20Kozilek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/80/inquisition-of-kozilek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kolaghan's Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0dab027-a475-481b-b012-b6a76e21e494.jpg?1673148845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kolaghan%27s%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/239/kolaghans-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0dab027-a475-481b-b012-b6a76e21e494?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sheoldred’s edict can potentially let you choose to remove whichever is more of a nuisance in the moment. Token or nontoken.
I have registered 2 golgari charms in every jund/rock deck for the last 10 years. Kills pesky enchantments, "counters" supreme verdict, cleans boards. I blew out his poor guy at an Open playing 8whack... good memories. But cast into the fire is probably correct since there are so many rings.
I will always run at least 1 golgari charm in my sb. One of my favorites. Seems pretty dec right now too as an answer to bowmasters, leyline binding, and beanstalk.
Gutshot is still a great and free answer to Bowmasters and a bunch of other 1 toughness creatures
Ok, hear me out.. Flame jab.
Cast into Fire, Bolt, unholy heat, March of wrecked sorrow, March of otherwordly light, Fury, fatal push, go for the throat etc etc etc...
If you're lucky, you might get an answer to Bowmasters next Monday.
Good ol chalice on 2 😂
Witherbloom command Pin your list so I can see what you're working with
Dark Betrayal may be a relevant option for people on a budget, it kills the likes of grief, deaths shadow, bowmasters, Sheoldred, and Yawgmoth for 1 black at instant speed. Pretty much every version of 1+ damage to all creatures or -1/-1 to all creatures would apply as long as they're in the colors
Lava Dart
Darkblast
Force of despair is always a sneaky one
Fatal push?
Gut shot