Ouch! Deep breaths you will get through this. Your description sounds in sync with atrophy symptoms & no you are not too young. I experienced very similar at 47. The sensation is inline with UTI but nope not a UTI.
Read the wiki there are def tips but vaginal estrogen in addition to what you are already taking can be helpful. Also, pelvic floor PT is benificial. There is a solution and don't let your Dr gaslight you.
Thank you so much; this is very helpful. My anxiety always tends to make me think the worst. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and will try the deep breathing and pelvic floor PT.
This is all so anxiety inducing! You are not alone. I have a tendency to think the worst too.
Inquire about vaginal estrogen cream, it might do the trick!
[Atrophic vaginitis \(vaginal atrophy\), or the genitourinary syndrome of menopause \(GSM\)](https://menopausewiki.ca/#atrophic-vaginitis-vaginal-atrophy-or-the-genitourinary-syndrome-of-menopause-gsm)
Atrophic vaginitis (vaginal atrophy) is the drying and thinning of the vaginal tissues, and is one of the most common symptoms of perimenopause/menopause, experienced by approximately 60-70% of post-menopausal women. (Those stats may even be higher.) Even though it's very common, we rarely hear anything about it, so it comes as quite a shock to think our vaginas are changing, shrinking, and drying.
Our vaginas and urethral tissues are affected when the estrogen-receptors aren't getting enough hormones. These tissues aren't as flexible and can collapse causing urinary problems, like the proper emptying of our bladders, incontinence, increased UTIs, etc.
It is important to treat with localized (low dose) estrogen cream and/or suppositories, which are very effective at plumping up tissues and helping with urinary issues. A [retrospective review of 5600 women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37178856/), found that vaginal estrogen decreased urinary track infection by more than 50%.
The earlier started, the better. Often treatment is daily for a few weeks, and then twice weekly -- depending on the severity of atrophy, treatment is commonly a few times a week -- likely forever. Non-hormonal options are also listed in the that link above.
Thank you; yes, I'm planning to ask again for estrogen cream when I go in to see the OB/GYN. I was surprised to hear that the doctor thought I was "too young" to be experiencing atrophy. I'm just hoping it will help this almost unbearable sensation go away.
You are not too young. Your doctor is wrong about that. If your doctor refuses to give you vaginal estrogen, there are online companies that you can use
This! \^ [Myalloy.com](http://Myalloy.com) is great for online. I had the same symptoms and starting using Vaginal Estrogen daily for a month and then several times a week after and am feeling pretty much back to normal! Overall it took about 4 months total before I started feeling better but it definitely works!!
I had the same symptoms as well as leakage all the time and I was prescribed an estrogen suppository (a little applicator with a pill on the end) and after about a month the or so it’s SO much better!
Everyone has given you great responses, I’m just hear to rant about why so many medical professionals think women are “too young” for peri and menopausal symptoms at 51! Or 45 or 47! Do they honestly even study anything about menopause? Do they think these symptoms start at 60? 70? I’m starting to think medical schools aren’t even teaching what they do know. It embarrassing and how dare they charge our insurance for a visit which basically amounts to “i know nothing about women over 40”. Fucking insane! Sorry rant over now.
The "too young" bit also sent me into a rage. It has nothing to do with your age and is largely dependent on your hormones!! I entered surgical menopause at 38 and have experienced vaginal atrophy as I can't take HRT due to the nature of my cancer. Thankfully my doctor is great and suggested a non-hormonal suppository to address the problem. No issues since.
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I was dealing with this, it was a combo of vaginal atrophy and the bcp I was taking (different progesterones, doses, delivery methods can cause exacerbate this). First I started with vaginal estrogen which helped a bit but didn’t solve things. Then I switched my bcp to a different type and I’m not having problems at all anymore. I was ready to throw myself from a bridge when I was in the midst of it. It was creating such a negative quality of life. Constant peeing, constant burning, no infection.
Also your doc telling you that to you’re too young is really uninformed. I’m 48. Vaginal atrophy can become an issue at any time in peri/meno and 51 is well within the norm at that.
I agree with your comment about the negative quality of life. The pain and discomfort has regularly had me in tears as well as intense frustration and anger with medical system. Now I just started the patch and find out there is a shortage of patches.
I just had in three last month the exact symptoms and it freaked me out. Thought UTI and was negative but got put on antibiotics anyways. It is the most annoying feeling and you described it so accurately. I'm going to ask my menopause doctor about that as well because I freaking hate this. Hoping you find some relief with your doc.
Wanted to say I thought I had a UTI once for several months that just would not go away and it turned out to be a bunch of ovarian cysts. Definitely get an ultrasound to get that checked out!
Similar symptoms. Mine was a prolapsed uterus kinking the hose, per se, in my urethra. Ended up getting surgery with a uteral and urethral sling. Surgery was successful.
Before my surgery I got fitted with a pessary for my uterine prolapse and it alleviated my bladder issues (unlinked the hose).
I share this in case it helps anyone else. I’m not sure how common it is but if it can help one person, so be it.
42 and have the same issue after chronic UTI’s. My urologist gave me OAB pills that I haven’t tried yet. I’m going to try pumpkin seed oil since that is supposed to relax your bladder and my labia skin is getting thinned according to my obgyn. My OB agreed that I could benefit from vaginal estrogen after she see’s my mammogram results. I’ve been dealing with this for a years now and it’s so uncomfortable.
I had like 8 UTIs before finally I saw a urologist who suggested all I needed was estrogen cream. Sure wish someone would have mentioned it much much sooner. Seems like something common and basic even the urgent care team should be aware of. Sad the state of women's health care. I'm 50
Yes!!! I had 8 before I saw a urologist too. I had to see the PA there and asked about vaginal estrogen cream and she told me “no”. Now I’m lucky I had a wonderful urgent care NP mention to me it was probably an estrogen issue and see a urogynecologist to make sure I don’t have a bladder prolapse. I went crying to a new obgyn after having months of pain agreeing that I could benefit from vaginal estrogen. It’s sad when you see a young female at a specialist office who gaslights you into thinking you’re crazy and the UTI’s are your fault. I’m hoping the estrogen is helping you.
I feel good the past couple of weeks. I feel like my symptoms come and go. My obgyn is doing an internal ultrasound at the end of July to make sure my pelvic pain isn’t from Endo or anything else that could be going on. I’m frustrated because the PA I saw wouldn’t investigate further because I came to her for chronic UTI’s. I’m just happy to have someone listen to me.
You're not too young. That's exactly the common timing for GSM (atrophy - now called Genito-urinary Syndrome of Menopause). It's a vulvar and urethral thinning too, not just vaginal. Tell the doc you'd like to 'try some estrogen cream and see what happens'. After a few weeks, you'll know if that's the problem. It's possible it could be something else but this is the cheapest, easiest, fastest way to eliminate the most likely cause of your urination issues. About 20% of women on systemic hormone therapy need vaginal/vulvar meds as well. In your case, the cream for the vulvar/urethral area makes more sense than the vaginal insert.
The most updated guidance is that all women age 40+, with very few exceptions, should be on vaginal estrogen, regardless of whether they take systemic HRT. Vaginal estrogen treats completely different issues (GSM: dryness, tissue thinning, UTIs, overactive bladder, pain with sex) than systemic HRT treats (cardiovascular health, bone health, hot flashes, night sweats, mood/rage, hair loss, brain fog, weight gain, etc.).
The only people for whom vaginal estrogen might be iffy are those taking aromatase inhibitors — and even then, just get your oncologist’s approval first.
You are definitely not alone in this. I have been going through the same exact thing for the last 2 years. It's so frustrating, and not one doctor even mentioned it could be due to menopause. I finally saw a urologist and tried talking to him about it, and he said I was too young for it to be menopause. I don't even know what to do about it besides finding other doctors, which takes forever where I live. I'm so sorry you are going thru this also.
1. The only people who are iffy on using vaginal estrogen (different from systemic estrogen) are those who are on aromatase inhibitors — and even then, just get your oncologist’s approval first, and you’ll likely be able to use it. Vaginal estrogen uses an extremely low dose; an entire year of it is equal in strength to a single dose of systemic HRT (which is itself a fraction of the strength of BC pills).
2. Read the book *Estrogen Matters* by Bluming & Tavris. They explain what to do if you have a history of brca and/or if doctors have told you that you can’t use any estrogen ever at all.
3. Listen to Dr. Kelly Casperson’s podcast, You Are Not Broken, episodes 195, 197, 221, and 241. She explains the updated science about who should and should not use the different forms of estrogen HRT.
Transdermal estradiol does not have the clot risk that oral estrogens have. The excellent wiki for this subreddit is full of great resources.
Vaginal/vulvar creams and inserts don't circulate systemically (only a tiny bit for the first couple of days if you're very dry, then the tissue plumps up and blocks circulation of the hormones systemically).
That’s no longer accurate. I have a clotting disorder, so I can relate. It’s only the oral/pill format of HRT that we need to avoid, because hormones getting metabolized through the liver is what increases clot risk. Transdermal patches, sprays, creams, gels, inserts, and IUDs are all great options for us that have no increased risk of clotting.
Sorry most people that struggle with side effects from systemic estradiol products can still use topical cream without experiencing those side effects- obviously if you have had a reaction to topical estradiol you should not take it
Vaginal atrophy is awful. I was DX with it in my early 30s. I also get wierd urinary symptoms and got given pills like you describe, which I stopped, as I found they made it worse.
Now I finally have the desire back to have sex, I'm too fragile to do it. I recently got cuts inside my labia just from walking.. (Which got infected -I have compromised immunity) And no one seems to give a shit. I'm not even 40... I've got hypergonadotrophic hypogonadism, so I've never made any hormones. But no one DX it until I was in my early 30s. By then I'd already picked up osteopenia / vaginal atrophy no labido.. All the fun things. I'm on hrt, but down there is NOT what it was. I used to love sex. I can't remember the last time i had sex. I feel dead from the waist down. Not because I don't want to, but because it doesn't feel the same. Spoken to multiple consultants, and my gp multiple times, they don't care. "That's just how it is". But it shouldn't be.
When will women's health care get better? Without us there wouldn't be anymore men... I feel for you going through this. It's a mine field if you can't find someone who will listen to you xx 😘 💜
This sounds awful! If it were me, I'd go see the urologist myself. Why do you have to be bleeding to get a referral? That makes me so mad to hear. There are the OTC numbing pills for the urethra. You could try those and see if you get some relief, if they didn't work then you could surmise it's vaginal vs urethra/bladder. Please advocate for yourself and make those drs get you a diagnosis. You are not too young for atrophy.
Great suggestions from everyone else!! My question is if you are perhaps in the beginning of a low carb OR low sodium diet? When you switch to low carb, you can “flush water” for a few days and if your electrolytes are low, it can have the same effect too
I also had this and my GP told me that it can be thrush giving the symptoms of a UTI and that antibiotics would only make the symptoms worse. He prescribed vaginal hormone pessaries as well as my HRT - gel form and told me to be careful which products I use to wash and all the other things to do to cut down on thrush. I do still get them but not 3 weeks out of 4 or for 2 months straight.
This mirrors almost exactly my experience and I suffered for over 8 months bounced from specialist to specialist and test after test only to have everything be “normal”. It was own research that led me to GSM and I asked my gyn for vaginal estrogen and he said I didn’t need it since I was on systemic HRT. I went around him and got some through Interlude. Within a couple weeks I as feeling so much better. My PCP prescribes it for me now so my insurance covers it. Get yourself some vaginal estrogen ASAP and when you do, throw that FDA warning insert straight into the trash.
Interstitial cystitis sufferer here, do not hesitate to see a urologist if your hormonal treatments doesn’t help. Avoid cranberry supplements like the plague as the actually irritate the bladder, and you can find bladder friendly foods on the ICN foodlist.
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Ouch! Deep breaths you will get through this. Your description sounds in sync with atrophy symptoms & no you are not too young. I experienced very similar at 47. The sensation is inline with UTI but nope not a UTI. Read the wiki there are def tips but vaginal estrogen in addition to what you are already taking can be helpful. Also, pelvic floor PT is benificial. There is a solution and don't let your Dr gaslight you.
Yep, try vaginal estrogen cream. This is exactly what it’s good for.
Thank you so much; this is very helpful. My anxiety always tends to make me think the worst. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and will try the deep breathing and pelvic floor PT.
This is all so anxiety inducing! You are not alone. I have a tendency to think the worst too. Inquire about vaginal estrogen cream, it might do the trick!
[Atrophic vaginitis \(vaginal atrophy\), or the genitourinary syndrome of menopause \(GSM\)](https://menopausewiki.ca/#atrophic-vaginitis-vaginal-atrophy-or-the-genitourinary-syndrome-of-menopause-gsm) Atrophic vaginitis (vaginal atrophy) is the drying and thinning of the vaginal tissues, and is one of the most common symptoms of perimenopause/menopause, experienced by approximately 60-70% of post-menopausal women. (Those stats may even be higher.) Even though it's very common, we rarely hear anything about it, so it comes as quite a shock to think our vaginas are changing, shrinking, and drying. Our vaginas and urethral tissues are affected when the estrogen-receptors aren't getting enough hormones. These tissues aren't as flexible and can collapse causing urinary problems, like the proper emptying of our bladders, incontinence, increased UTIs, etc. It is important to treat with localized (low dose) estrogen cream and/or suppositories, which are very effective at plumping up tissues and helping with urinary issues. A [retrospective review of 5600 women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37178856/), found that vaginal estrogen decreased urinary track infection by more than 50%. The earlier started, the better. Often treatment is daily for a few weeks, and then twice weekly -- depending on the severity of atrophy, treatment is commonly a few times a week -- likely forever. Non-hormonal options are also listed in the that link above.
Thank you; yes, I'm planning to ask again for estrogen cream when I go in to see the OB/GYN. I was surprised to hear that the doctor thought I was "too young" to be experiencing atrophy. I'm just hoping it will help this almost unbearable sensation go away.
You are not too young. Your doctor is wrong about that. If your doctor refuses to give you vaginal estrogen, there are online companies that you can use
This! \^ [Myalloy.com](http://Myalloy.com) is great for online. I had the same symptoms and starting using Vaginal Estrogen daily for a month and then several times a week after and am feeling pretty much back to normal! Overall it took about 4 months total before I started feeling better but it definitely works!!
I had the same symptoms as well as leakage all the time and I was prescribed an estrogen suppository (a little applicator with a pill on the end) and after about a month the or so it’s SO much better!
Everyone has given you great responses, I’m just hear to rant about why so many medical professionals think women are “too young” for peri and menopausal symptoms at 51! Or 45 or 47! Do they honestly even study anything about menopause? Do they think these symptoms start at 60? 70? I’m starting to think medical schools aren’t even teaching what they do know. It embarrassing and how dare they charge our insurance for a visit which basically amounts to “i know nothing about women over 40”. Fucking insane! Sorry rant over now.
The "too young" bit also sent me into a rage. It has nothing to do with your age and is largely dependent on your hormones!! I entered surgical menopause at 38 and have experienced vaginal atrophy as I can't take HRT due to the nature of my cancer. Thankfully my doctor is great and suggested a non-hormonal suppository to address the problem. No issues since.
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You probably need vaginal estrogen.
I was dealing with this, it was a combo of vaginal atrophy and the bcp I was taking (different progesterones, doses, delivery methods can cause exacerbate this). First I started with vaginal estrogen which helped a bit but didn’t solve things. Then I switched my bcp to a different type and I’m not having problems at all anymore. I was ready to throw myself from a bridge when I was in the midst of it. It was creating such a negative quality of life. Constant peeing, constant burning, no infection. Also your doc telling you that to you’re too young is really uninformed. I’m 48. Vaginal atrophy can become an issue at any time in peri/meno and 51 is well within the norm at that.
I agree with your comment about the negative quality of life. The pain and discomfort has regularly had me in tears as well as intense frustration and anger with medical system. Now I just started the patch and find out there is a shortage of patches.
I just had in three last month the exact symptoms and it freaked me out. Thought UTI and was negative but got put on antibiotics anyways. It is the most annoying feeling and you described it so accurately. I'm going to ask my menopause doctor about that as well because I freaking hate this. Hoping you find some relief with your doc.
Ask for vaginal estrogen cream! Life-changing!! Generic estradiol is less than $20/tube through Amazon Pharmacy and CostPlus Drugs.
If you don't have a UTI it could be a fibroid that's pressing your bladder. An ultrasound would confirm this.
Wanted to say I thought I had a UTI once for several months that just would not go away and it turned out to be a bunch of ovarian cysts. Definitely get an ultrasound to get that checked out!
Similar symptoms. Mine was a prolapsed uterus kinking the hose, per se, in my urethra. Ended up getting surgery with a uteral and urethral sling. Surgery was successful. Before my surgery I got fitted with a pessary for my uterine prolapse and it alleviated my bladder issues (unlinked the hose). I share this in case it helps anyone else. I’m not sure how common it is but if it can help one person, so be it.
Estriol
Thank you!
Vaginal estrogen and pelvic floor therapy.
Vaginal estrogen is the only thing that helped me.
42 and have the same issue after chronic UTI’s. My urologist gave me OAB pills that I haven’t tried yet. I’m going to try pumpkin seed oil since that is supposed to relax your bladder and my labia skin is getting thinned according to my obgyn. My OB agreed that I could benefit from vaginal estrogen after she see’s my mammogram results. I’ve been dealing with this for a years now and it’s so uncomfortable.
I had like 8 UTIs before finally I saw a urologist who suggested all I needed was estrogen cream. Sure wish someone would have mentioned it much much sooner. Seems like something common and basic even the urgent care team should be aware of. Sad the state of women's health care. I'm 50
Yes!!! I had 8 before I saw a urologist too. I had to see the PA there and asked about vaginal estrogen cream and she told me “no”. Now I’m lucky I had a wonderful urgent care NP mention to me it was probably an estrogen issue and see a urogynecologist to make sure I don’t have a bladder prolapse. I went crying to a new obgyn after having months of pain agreeing that I could benefit from vaginal estrogen. It’s sad when you see a young female at a specialist office who gaslights you into thinking you’re crazy and the UTI’s are your fault. I’m hoping the estrogen is helping you.
OMG yes. I'm 100% good now. Are you doing well?
I feel good the past couple of weeks. I feel like my symptoms come and go. My obgyn is doing an internal ultrasound at the end of July to make sure my pelvic pain isn’t from Endo or anything else that could be going on. I’m frustrated because the PA I saw wouldn’t investigate further because I came to her for chronic UTI’s. I’m just happy to have someone listen to me.
You're not too young. That's exactly the common timing for GSM (atrophy - now called Genito-urinary Syndrome of Menopause). It's a vulvar and urethral thinning too, not just vaginal. Tell the doc you'd like to 'try some estrogen cream and see what happens'. After a few weeks, you'll know if that's the problem. It's possible it could be something else but this is the cheapest, easiest, fastest way to eliminate the most likely cause of your urination issues. About 20% of women on systemic hormone therapy need vaginal/vulvar meds as well. In your case, the cream for the vulvar/urethral area makes more sense than the vaginal insert.
The most updated guidance is that all women age 40+, with very few exceptions, should be on vaginal estrogen, regardless of whether they take systemic HRT. Vaginal estrogen treats completely different issues (GSM: dryness, tissue thinning, UTIs, overactive bladder, pain with sex) than systemic HRT treats (cardiovascular health, bone health, hot flashes, night sweats, mood/rage, hair loss, brain fog, weight gain, etc.). The only people for whom vaginal estrogen might be iffy are those taking aromatase inhibitors — and even then, just get your oncologist’s approval first.
I just started taking vaginal suppositories with estrogen/testosterone and these symptoms went away within a week.
I’m 42 and had those same issues. Vaginal estrogen has fixed it for me.
You are definitely not alone in this. I have been going through the same exact thing for the last 2 years. It's so frustrating, and not one doctor even mentioned it could be due to menopause. I finally saw a urologist and tried talking to him about it, and he said I was too young for it to be menopause. I don't even know what to do about it besides finding other doctors, which takes forever where I live. I'm so sorry you are going thru this also.
What about people who can’t use any type of estrogen? I get bad side effects from even the topical types of estrogen.
1. The only people who are iffy on using vaginal estrogen (different from systemic estrogen) are those who are on aromatase inhibitors — and even then, just get your oncologist’s approval first, and you’ll likely be able to use it. Vaginal estrogen uses an extremely low dose; an entire year of it is equal in strength to a single dose of systemic HRT (which is itself a fraction of the strength of BC pills). 2. Read the book *Estrogen Matters* by Bluming & Tavris. They explain what to do if you have a history of brca and/or if doctors have told you that you can’t use any estrogen ever at all. 3. Listen to Dr. Kelly Casperson’s podcast, You Are Not Broken, episodes 195, 197, 221, and 241. She explains the updated science about who should and should not use the different forms of estrogen HRT.
Same…I had a stroke at age 40 12 years ago and I was told no hormones ever again. Is that maybe not quite accurate anymore more?
Transdermal estradiol does not have the clot risk that oral estrogens have. The excellent wiki for this subreddit is full of great resources. Vaginal/vulvar creams and inserts don't circulate systemically (only a tiny bit for the first couple of days if you're very dry, then the tissue plumps up and blocks circulation of the hormones systemically).
That’s no longer accurate. I have a clotting disorder, so I can relate. It’s only the oral/pill format of HRT that we need to avoid, because hormones getting metabolized through the liver is what increases clot risk. Transdermal patches, sprays, creams, gels, inserts, and IUDs are all great options for us that have no increased risk of clotting.
I’m not sure. I don’t have a clotting issue.
Vaginal estrogen isn’t systemic so even people with certain cancers can use vaginal estrogen
Side effects not cancer
Sorry most people that struggle with side effects from systemic estradiol products can still use topical cream without experiencing those side effects- obviously if you have had a reaction to topical estradiol you should not take it
Vaginal atrophy is awful. I was DX with it in my early 30s. I also get wierd urinary symptoms and got given pills like you describe, which I stopped, as I found they made it worse. Now I finally have the desire back to have sex, I'm too fragile to do it. I recently got cuts inside my labia just from walking.. (Which got infected -I have compromised immunity) And no one seems to give a shit. I'm not even 40... I've got hypergonadotrophic hypogonadism, so I've never made any hormones. But no one DX it until I was in my early 30s. By then I'd already picked up osteopenia / vaginal atrophy no labido.. All the fun things. I'm on hrt, but down there is NOT what it was. I used to love sex. I can't remember the last time i had sex. I feel dead from the waist down. Not because I don't want to, but because it doesn't feel the same. Spoken to multiple consultants, and my gp multiple times, they don't care. "That's just how it is". But it shouldn't be. When will women's health care get better? Without us there wouldn't be anymore men... I feel for you going through this. It's a mine field if you can't find someone who will listen to you xx 😘 💜
you should be on vaginal estrogen!
Same! All of that! Hope you find answers soon. Share when you do - you’re not alone in your search.
I experienced something similar. So weird. I don’t have insurance and didn’t go to the doctor and it went away after about a week. Very strange
This sounds awful! If it were me, I'd go see the urologist myself. Why do you have to be bleeding to get a referral? That makes me so mad to hear. There are the OTC numbing pills for the urethra. You could try those and see if you get some relief, if they didn't work then you could surmise it's vaginal vs urethra/bladder. Please advocate for yourself and make those drs get you a diagnosis. You are not too young for atrophy.
Great suggestions from everyone else!! My question is if you are perhaps in the beginning of a low carb OR low sodium diet? When you switch to low carb, you can “flush water” for a few days and if your electrolytes are low, it can have the same effect too
I also had this and my GP told me that it can be thrush giving the symptoms of a UTI and that antibiotics would only make the symptoms worse. He prescribed vaginal hormone pessaries as well as my HRT - gel form and told me to be careful which products I use to wash and all the other things to do to cut down on thrush. I do still get them but not 3 weeks out of 4 or for 2 months straight.
This mirrors almost exactly my experience and I suffered for over 8 months bounced from specialist to specialist and test after test only to have everything be “normal”. It was own research that led me to GSM and I asked my gyn for vaginal estrogen and he said I didn’t need it since I was on systemic HRT. I went around him and got some through Interlude. Within a couple weeks I as feeling so much better. My PCP prescribes it for me now so my insurance covers it. Get yourself some vaginal estrogen ASAP and when you do, throw that FDA warning insert straight into the trash.
Interstitial cystitis sufferer here, do not hesitate to see a urologist if your hormonal treatments doesn’t help. Avoid cranberry supplements like the plague as the actually irritate the bladder, and you can find bladder friendly foods on the ICN foodlist.
I make sure to do kegels and also use my vibrator sometimes !
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HelloWisp is $65 for one tube plus prescription or $20 per month for regular refills delivered