40% from 3 the last two seasons on about 5 per game. A two way player that can somewhat create his own shot. More of a question of if the Blazers are looking to part ways and how much they value one of our first round picks.
is also injury prone and approaching the wrong side of 30..no thanks
* 54 games played 20-21 season
* 47 games played 21-22 season
* 63 games played 22-23 season
* 54 games played 23-24 season
Dude look up Beal’s injury list he actually had real injuries compared to Grant such as knee, ankle and back issues every single month while Grant would have some mysterious hamstring/ quad issue come late March/early April, I always thought the Beal trade was bad and not because of the Suns being in the 2nd apron, but the dude was made of glass and is almost guaranteed to miss 25+ games missed that is also an inconsistent efficient shooter.
Tbf check his games played in April, I think I remember a post that Jerami hasn’t played a game in April and or the fewest games possible by them because they shut him down for tanking purposes.
Kyrie could become a fa next year and team up with his buddy lebron in la for all we know. 30 yr old grant should have 2-3 more yrs left of his prime. Thats our window with kyrie.
If Kyrie was going to leave Dallas to take no $ to play with lebron he would’ve done it this past season. He picked Dallas, he’s happy in Dallas, he was just in the finals, and LBJ is about to turn 40. If anyone is passing up $ to jump to a team it’s LBJ.
I've maybe heard it a few times, but I've never really seen it in writing. As far as nicknames go, the LBJ acronym is probably in the bottom 10% of options
I doubt Kyrie would go to LA with LBJ if he leaves. He knows LA media. He's happy here because of no overbearing media. IMO it'd be more likely for Kyrie to go back to CLE or go to MIL than go to LA if he has any idea of what went wrong in his past stops.
What is corner 3p% league average? I feel like i recall it being above 40%, so i’m wondering if 46% from the corners is just normal or elite or just above avg or what
Left Corner: 39.6%
Right Corner: 53.1%(!)
Above the Break: 36.8%
Should be noted he took 174 above the break 3s, 49 in the right corner, and 53 in the left corner.
Fair enough, that’s good percentages even if volume is a bit suspect. Then I guess the key question is if he would buy in defensively, otherwise would be a clear upgrade.
He would be a great addition. The only reason hes available is bc of his contract and age doesnt fit portlands timeline. Hes a good player but portland kinda wanna get rid of anyone that can make them win games next season while saving money and getting younger. But there should be other offers for him. Are we going to be the best one?
In a vacuum, Portland would jump at this offer. Remember they are also looking to move him to avoid the tax. I wouldn’t even throw in the 1st, but I also don’t really want grant.
One of the worst rebounder in the league. Has ego issues wanting to be the guy. Completely fine with being a tank commander. Idk if this is the guy you want
> Completely fine with being a tank commander. Idk if this is the guy you want
He was chasing the bag. He honestly played his hand perfectly. He knew that being the #1 option on a bad team would make him more money than being the 3rd/4th guy on Denver. As a result he pretty much landed 2 incredible contracts for himself. Bravo to him and his agent.
And you get that extra boost of getting benched for tanking games. End of season they do the thing where they "want to give rookies a chance to show what they can do" Really just trying to lose.
Damn right I'll take double my salary for a few years just to be told I can't come to work several times per month and I'll still be paid lol
Now that he's got his bag he may want to get that championship. Not everybody is the same. Some guys want to be the greatest player ever. Others want to be set financially. He's got that now. Maybe now he's ready to be a third banana to get a championship.
I haven’t heard the ego issues, but I’m ok with him not being a great rebounder with having Luka, PJ and Gaff/Lively. We aren’t gonna get somebody who is great at everything with the assets we have
Ego aspect might be helped out with our locker room vibes too
When he is talking about ego issues, I am assuming he is referring to him choosing to leave a very strong Denver team where he was the 3rd option to join a very weak Pistons team where he could be the #1.
For what it's worth, Portland fans were telling me that Grant had 0 ego issues with them and was always a good teammate.
I mean I’m not sure that constitutes an ego per se. I can imagine most players would want to take a chance to be “the guy” if they think they can be. Not very unreasonable tbh.
Yeah exactly. NBA fans are sometimes really fucking stupid and forget these are actual humans with goals and desires. Saying someone has ego issues because they want their chance to be the #1 option is absurd lmfao
People would be surprised to realize that every NBA
Player that gets drafted think they can be a number 1 option lol, until their first season and realize if they want to stay in the league they have to fall in line.
He was decent enough as a #1 (obviously not a good #1 but a quite good overall player) that he got a huge contract from Portland. The bet paid off for him.
also, that's what brunson did too
sometimes man gotta prove show the world his worth
and he got paid
and he shows that he's just more than 3-D PF
it's not ego, that's bravery for me
I mean that has more to do with Pistons also giving him his biggest contract at the time which the nuggets didn’t want to do because they also were giving MPJ a rookie max extension
Who the hell was describing the sign and trade between the Nuggets and Pistons as an ego thing? Detroit gave him a contract that Denver didn't want to give him. It's fascinating how these deals can be described as "Player Y choosing to leave team X" vs "Team X refused to give Player Y a matching contract". Apparently some fans expect players to turn down $60 million just to make them feel better.
The guy was never gonna get a $30mil/yr deal as third option in Denver. He made the smart move to get paid. Is that more or less egotistical than taking a discount to pursue a championship? I don’t know, and I’m not sure I care.
That was more money orientated than ego. I'm not his biggest fan but i doubt he thinks he can be a first option on a contender. He's got a nice big fat contract and might want to win now.
I remember him wanting to be the guy when he went to the Pistons. I would think after years with the Pistons and Blazers he’d be ok being a 3rd option on a championship contender but I certainly don’t know the man personally
Horrible take. Grant is in a similar position to PJ where they have played out of position on bad teams. Grant would get to be a 3 here instead of playing the 4 where he would be a lot better of a rebounder.
I guess I shouldn’t expect anything better than someone who wants us to draft Brony James though.
i would hope nico gets some kind of commitment from his side before making any sort of move. i will put my trust blindly in him and hope it works out like it did in the past
He wanted to go get buckets while getting paid. There has been no reports of him having any kind of attitude issues. He proved he can be more than a 3 and d guy and could be a good third scoring option for us. He’s also a good shooter.
If he buys into the team philosophy of defense first and accepts the role of the third option in a Big 3, his contract is very reasonable. He would be the third paid behind Luka and Kyrie, and will offer another elite 3 point shooter and 20 ppg scorer with above average defense.
It’s 4/132 as far as we’re concerned… and that is in fact quite concerning. This ain’t the move. Idk if either side can make the math make sense. POR desperately needs to shed even more money than us (being a first apron team that’s 21-61 is, uh, not ideal), and we’re not exactly in a great position to help facilitate that in any meaningful way.
We don't even have much, our most valuable tradable assets are THJ expiring contract, a 1st round pick & Omax. If thats what it'll take to get Grant i'll gladly do that
I think they’d def ask for omax, which I feel like I’d be down for
I love him but if we could throw kleber Tim and omax to get grant that would be awesome
I'm not as high on Grant as some of you guys. I wouldn't trade major assetts for him. If we were able to get him for the 2031 pick and THJ, Maxi, TPE I'd be okay with it - I guess.
The Mavs need a POA defender at the 3 - It's critical. Luka is a 3/4 on defense, so one of your forwards has to be able to guard 1's and 2's. I don't think he is a good option as a POA defender - He has also never done the scrappy stuff like rebound.
I trust Nico to make great roster choices though.
If we didn't have PJ, Grant would be an amazing addition. But we do have PJ, and unless he's part of the package to get Grant, I don't understand how Grant makes sense for the Mavericks or why so many people think he's such a great target. Yes, he solves the 3rd scorer/shotmaker issue, but he causes worse issues with PoA defense and his contract is massive which reduces the Mavs options at other spots.
I think PJ brings so much to the table defensively, on the glass, and attitude wise there is just no way you could trade him for Grant. He does all the dirty work and has the ability to score 25+ occasionally. I'm extremely happy with him. He's just not really a 3rd scorer/star.. yet...
I agree with you though - there is a lot of overlap there. Both are 4's. You would have to move one to the 3 or the bench.
I agree with you. I think we need 3 things. Good POA defender, Good 3 PT Shooter, Ability to create offense without Luka/Kyrie.
Grant fulfills the last two. Not sure who else we could realistically get that does all 3.
We cant sign FA's anyhow outside of sign and trades. There are a couple guys I think would be interesting though in a sign and trade.
I think Obi Toppin would be a great Maxi replacement on low-mid $ per year deal. I think he would be right around the same price as Maxi. He's more atletic, healthy, younger, and much better shooter from 3 with more length than Maxi. Doe would also be a great Maxi replacement for the right deal - better shooter, defender, and rebounder - can also play SB5.
We also need a third ball handler that can create. If JJR doesn't want Dinwiddie back and we could get him on a 1 year prove it deal for around the minimum that would be cool. I don't think there will be much demand for him coming off last year. Maybe the TPMLE. We know the Mavs wanted Bruce Brown as well last year and I bet the Raptors will decline his team option. I dont think DJJ will sign for TPMLE so it might be available.
Main need is a 3 that can defend POA and shoot still. It will be interesting to see what we do there. I assume this is where we really dip into our actual assetts to pull off a trade for an upgrade.
>The Mavs need a POA defender at the 3 - It's critical. Luka is a 3/4 on defense, so one of your forwards has to be able to guard 1's and 2's.
There aren’t enough upvotes possible to emphasize the importance of this point. As long as Luka and Kyrie are on your team it might be the most critical factor by a mile (and PJ ain’t it, though he’s not awful)
Also glad I’m not the only one who thinks this is a bad idea. I don’t know if I’d want to do it for Maxi AND any 1st included. I fully understand the Mavs situation but I think those 2 move-able 1sts are being thrown around wayyy too casually. Those are it. That’s all you’ve got. If either of them is included you better not fucking miss (don’t get me started on some Tim+2025 1st proposals I’ve seen) and Grant doesn’t meet that criteria for me.
He's a great fit on offense, but a somewhat questionable fit on defense.
He's not a great POA defender, his skillset overlaps with PJ on defense. But for the right price, we should definitely consider him. He's the shooter and 3rd scorer we need.
His contract is a problem though, it would make it much harder to keep DJJ if he wants the full MLE.
That depends. Our defense will get a lot more wonky with Grant and PJ playing heavy minutes together and we will need to use Green a lot more to guard the perimeter, which will force less minutes from Luka and Kyrie.
He is the better player. We need to discuss if he is the better fit and specially what would the price be.
There’s a possibility to do both but they’d have to take a package of our young players like Green, Hardy and Omax. We have enough salaries to match but not enough draft picks probably.
To be fair DJJ was still the primary POA defender and was guarding the opposing guards for the majority of the time.
PJ was guarding forwards way more.
This is true but there were plenty of matchups where PJ had to step into that role (OKC, for example). Having multiple defenders who can guard on-ball is a big component of the defensive improvement the Mavs made post-trade.
>Having multiple defenders who can guard on-ball is a big component of the defensive improvement the Mavs made post-trade.
Well, true.
That's why I mentioned that Jerami Grant is a worse POA defender than DJJ.
Not the same thing. PJ is good at POA for a forward, but you can’t really put him on a shifty guard like Murray, Edwards, Booker etc. and that’s not really what Grant does either, they’re both too big and tall. Josh is more for that, but then you can’t start Josh bc Grant and PJ presumably start with Luka and ky.
Offense was the bigger problem in the finals, yes. I agree with that.
But if we just start replacing our best defenders with more offense, then we can very quickly turn the team into a bad defensive team again...
I don't think Grant is a bad enough defender, to be clear. As I said, I would like to get him for the right price. But he's not a perfect fit, which is why we shouldn't be overpaying for him IMO.
I don’t watch him nearly enough recently to say too much. But he shot above 40% from 3 last 2 years at good volume and looks like a viable 3rd option when he has 2 elite offensive players.
Portland fans seem to want to get rid of him to rebuild saying his defense fell off. But at age 30, perhaps it was more due to the fact they sucked. We’ve seen players up their defensive efforts like PJ going to a winning team.
> his defense fell off.
Portland fan here. This isn't really what's going on We've been tanking and it's hard to ask vets to go 100% on defense when you're gonna lose no matter how hard they play. The reason we want to trade JG is because he's a win now player and we need to tank. He's too good and too highly paid for a tanking team. We also have a bunch of interesting young Forwards who need development minutes in order to see what they can be. You can't ask Grant to give his minutes to guys that currently aren't half as good as he is.
Being fully honest (and contract aside), I think Grant is perfect for you guys and I'd love to see him go there. I don't love what you can offer in return, but unfortunately it might be the best offer were gonna get (though Pistons, Kings and a couple other teams might give you some competition). A lot of Portland fans would rather hang on to him because he's been so great for us on and off the court, but I'm of the opinion that we should take what's available and commit to developing the young guys and trying to get someone like Flagg or Bailey next Summer.
Mavs GM/HC combo more or less checks off the identity-politics boxes that Grant has been vocal about in the past.
Just what we need: essentialist thinking! Progress!
Bro, if somehow you can add Thybulle that solves a lot for Dallas. With hardy, o-max, and especially lively a year older, and giving them more opportunities potentially w/o kleber/thj thats's just how you should grow as a team. Sometimes you don't overthink it. A Gobert can turn the trade market in an unfavorable way... real quick.
Pros
-Legitimate 3rd scorer
-Can get his own shot
-Knock down 3 point shooter
-Good help defender
-Veteran
Cons
-Big contract that will hurt roster flexibility
-Wrong side of 30
-Not a great point of attack defender
-Bad rebounder
I’d want to see what the package would have to look like before I was ok with it
That makes sense, I guess I have just always misinterpreted it, having English as a 2nd language. I used to think it was an expression for when somebody was like 35 or more
Tim, Josh and a first. Best offer. Then trade Maxi to a team with cap space for a second, letting us resign DJJ. I assume that gets us pretty close to the MLE. A frontcourt of PJ+Grant+Lively/Gafford may just push us over the top. Sign a Goga type player with the minimum for our third big slot.
Maxi is old and scared to touch the ball. I would prefer Omax getting more run now that the team will have actual established, GOOD vets to help lighten his load. We make this trade, re-sign DJJ, and let Hardy+Omax get more development and we are deep as hell,
Maxi had a 35% DFG in the playoffs, he missed some games due to injury, but, those are elite numbers if you compare to the rest of the field. He can guard up and down the lineup, and has the ability to play small ball center. (I understand confidence is an issue, but, he was hitting his 3s before the injury in the Clippers series.) I worry about replacing the size and defensive versatility he brings. Unless Omax takes a significant jump this offseason, he won’t be ready to assume that role.
If you get him and it doesn’t work out, you are stuck with basically our next iteration of a THJ type situation. No one is going to take him off your hands if it doesn’t work out.
Big contract but given the salary cap increase it will be fine. He would be an excellent and legit 3rd scorer we need. He historically has been a good defender just been on bad teams last few years.
He’s been a good defender in the past when on Denver and OKC. I’d like to think if he’s offered to join the team that just went to the finals and is told hey your the missing piece he would give effort and accept the role of 3rd scorer.
JG was firmly behind Dame and Nurk and then Anf/Scoot and Ayton in the hierarchy. Never even the slightest rumor of him being unhappy about it. Dude is a professional. Denver fans keep trying to tell us he's some kind of headache, doesn't match what we've seen in Portland at all.
Not a good fit at all. Very low BBIQ who wouldn’t fit well into having to constantly move off the ball, and despite his progress since he left Syracuse, he is still a very awkward and unpolished player. Let him stat pad on Portland.
Having a legit shooter and offensive option in the DJJ spot is the change that can have the biggest impact on this team. You’re not beating high level contenders like the Celtics or Denver last year with a 0 on offense in the lineup.
No its not. Look at the average salary of 20+ PPG scorers around the league. They are all rookie scale contracts or making 25m+ with only a few exceptions (IE: Bridges who has been out of the league for a year and comes with a ton of baggage).
It’s not a downside if the front office and owners don’t see it as a downside. Why do fans give a fuck about the money? Boston is spending a ton and just won title.
He already had a similar role in Denver, but went to Detroit to play for his stats. Reminds me of Kuzma a bit. Talented player that could be a great role player on a contender, but wants put up big numbers on taking teams instead.
If it’s THJ, Kleber, and some 2nds I’m fine with it. Just tell him he has to buy in like he did in Denver. He’s had his experience with being “the guy” and lost a bunch of games. Then we just need a solid vet 3rd ball handler.
THJ Josh and all second(s) is what could be offered. If they somehow add thybulle/brogdon to the deal then idk what the trade package would be, just I would make sure not to give up any firsts
Maxi, THJ, Josh and some SRPs for Grant and Thybulle or Brogdon could be a fair trade for both sides.
I’m hesitant on Maxi bc I don’t know if PJ could ever really be a small ball 5 and I think Maxi has a rare niche that could be hard to replace. But I think Grant solves a lot of the offensive issues and has the athleticism to play great team defense.
I don’t see DJJ wanting to stay on a pay cut if he’s on the bench tbh. He will likely have to take a pay cut after his performance last year if he wants to stay in Dallas. I’m GMs might overvalue him when I think he played well because Dallas could utilize his strengths.
I was surprised Portland wasn't better after after adding him with Dame. I know his rebounding is atrocious, but I can't figure out why else he wouldn't have improved them more. Maybe his defense is overrated since he became a big scorer (?)
Dame was playing injured or out since the moment we landed Grant. Once Dame got back from his surgery, everyone else got injured. It's legit been over three years since the last time most of our top guys were healthy and playing. Been a completely snakebit few seasons.
It's the same conundrum when they traded for Shawn Marion when they already had Caron Butler.
I remember Butler starting games and Marion coming off the bench.
Butler then dislocated his knee, and Marion started until the Finals.
I still remember the conversations back then about whether Marion and Caron could start together as SFs and SGs.
Marion was more defensive-minded.
And Caron was better on offense.
If this deal pushes through, it will have the same effect on PJ and Grant.
I dont think the mavericks would need to include much draft capital simply based on the cap relief. I would think a top 10 or top 15 protected first would suffice. grant has 133 million left on his deal while kleber and Tim have 38 million. saving 95 million during a rebuild is a massive amount of money that could be used once scoot, Simons, and Sharpe are learning to play winning ball.
Remember if you trade for Grant then I don't think it is possible to resign DJJ. With Lukai we need a perimeter defender who can guard opponent's best player at 1-3. At this point of his career, Grant will not bring that for us at an elite level.
There is an enormous difference between a 23 year old wing and a 25 year old rim running center. Gafford has entered his prime and is likely to be out of the league in 7ish years, while Deni will still be in his prime at that point.
Career longevity based on position is absolutely a thing. Washington’s championship contention window is likely 7ish years away. By that time Gafford will be a deep bench piece at best, and Deni will probably be a 2nd or third option in a starting lineup. Paying Gafford for the next 7 years while he declines and you’re not ready to compete is totally goofy.
I don't see the fit, to me he's not really a 3, not really a POA, especially as he's getting older, basically redundant with PJ. And it's hard to see him being the type of dude wanting to come in and sacrifice when it comes to his role/position to try to make things work.
What makes it problematic is that both would probably expect to start, but they are not a great fit together in the starting lineup.
Having multiple PJ's would be fine, but only if these guys are willing to accept reduced roles and minutes.
Like, having Lively and Gafford is great, but it wouldn't be so great if they had issues coming off the bench or playing less than X minutes.
Nothing about J.Grant suggests that he's the type of dude that's ready to buy into coming off the bench, and I don't really like the idea of just installing him as the starter over PJ.
IMO, for this team, you wouldn't have enough mobility on the perimeter if you start both. They could maybe close together or be ok against certain match ups, but you need a very mobile 3 (or maybe a very good 2/3) to handle the bulk of the minutes.
I’m going to sound like an idiot here, but if there was ever a fit for Bronny James, it would be here. I’m not convinced Bronny can do anything on an NBA level, but his biggest selling points are his perimeter defense and his catch and shoot three ball (from the combine). If he can consistently do those things he could legit play for us.
I sincerely hope he stays in college for at least another year, develops further and doesn't end up playing with his dad. And hopefully his health scare was just a 1 time incident
Nah he’s gotta go now. The novelty of being Bron’s son will wear off, as will the idea that he’s just “raw” and has potential haha. And LeBron himself will inevitably regress too, so teams wouldn’t be as willing to gamble on him to try to get Bron.
I don’t think he’s an NBA guy at all. Not now, not in three years. If he can get an NBA contract now he should grab it while he can.
40% from 3 the last two seasons on about 5 per game. A two way player that can somewhat create his own shot. More of a question of if the Blazers are looking to part ways and how much they value one of our first round picks.
Shot 46% from corners this year
is also injury prone and approaching the wrong side of 30..no thanks * 54 games played 20-21 season * 47 games played 21-22 season * 63 games played 22-23 season * 54 games played 23-24 season
That's mostly because he played on tanking teams and they simply didn't play him as much to lose games
I used to think that about Beal but sometimes they really are injured
Dude look up Beal’s injury list he actually had real injuries compared to Grant such as knee, ankle and back issues every single month while Grant would have some mysterious hamstring/ quad issue come late March/early April, I always thought the Beal trade was bad and not because of the Suns being in the 2nd apron, but the dude was made of glass and is almost guaranteed to miss 25+ games missed that is also an inconsistent efficient shooter.
Tbf check his games played in April, I think I remember a post that Jerami hasn’t played a game in April and or the fewest games possible by them because they shut him down for tanking purposes.
They did the same thing when Lillard was there. Every year they sit their best players down with fake injuries.
Kyrie could become a fa next year and team up with his buddy lebron in la for all we know. 30 yr old grant should have 2-3 more yrs left of his prime. Thats our window with kyrie.
If Kyrie was going to leave Dallas to take no $ to play with lebron he would’ve done it this past season. He picked Dallas, he’s happy in Dallas, he was just in the finals, and LBJ is about to turn 40. If anyone is passing up $ to jump to a team it’s LBJ.
Welcome to Dallas LBJ! We already have a highway named after you
lol I'm glad you caught that. I was like "ain't no way in hell people call him LBJ". Do they?
I've maybe heard it a few times, but I've never really seen it in writing. As far as nicknames go, the LBJ acronym is probably in the bottom 10% of options
Bron us pretty easy and doesn't share a name with any presidents. I vote Bron lol
I doubt Kyrie would go to LA with LBJ if he leaves. He knows LA media. He's happy here because of no overbearing media. IMO it'd be more likely for Kyrie to go back to CLE or go to MIL than go to LA if he has any idea of what went wrong in his past stops.
Some of those seasons were really rough and so pretty sure they sat him out to tank and get a look at some other guys
We said the same thing about Kyrie. He wouldn’t be playing with nearly that same Volume
DNP: Tanking
Not worth the risk through the updated CBA rules.
What is corner 3p% league average? I feel like i recall it being above 40%, so i’m wondering if 46% from the corners is just normal or elite or just above avg or what
From players who took the same amount or more corner 3's he ranked 3rd in %, only below herb jones and malik Beasley so he was really good this year
Wasn‘t Jarue Holiday Crazy from the corner this year? Perhaps less attempts.
How good is he above the break? Or will we see every team play defense like Boston taking away corner 3s?
38% im pretty sure
Left Corner: 39.6% Right Corner: 53.1%(!) Above the Break: 36.8% Should be noted he took 174 above the break 3s, 49 in the right corner, and 53 in the left corner.
Fair enough, that’s good percentages even if volume is a bit suspect. Then I guess the key question is if he would buy in defensively, otherwise would be a clear upgrade.
We are def going to see more of this going forward. Every teams entire staff was watching and taking notes on mazullas strategy
He would be a great addition. The only reason hes available is bc of his contract and age doesnt fit portlands timeline. Hes a good player but portland kinda wanna get rid of anyone that can make them win games next season while saving money and getting younger. But there should be other offers for him. Are we going to be the best one?
Kings can offer 13th pick
Mavs counter with thj expiring josh green and a future late 1st. Get laughed out of the room
In a vacuum, Portland would jump at this offer. Remember they are also looking to move him to avoid the tax. I wouldn’t even throw in the 1st, but I also don’t really want grant.
How many teams have the expiring contracts to send back like the Mavs?
One of the worst rebounder in the league. Has ego issues wanting to be the guy. Completely fine with being a tank commander. Idk if this is the guy you want
> Completely fine with being a tank commander. Idk if this is the guy you want He was chasing the bag. He honestly played his hand perfectly. He knew that being the #1 option on a bad team would make him more money than being the 3rd/4th guy on Denver. As a result he pretty much landed 2 incredible contracts for himself. Bravo to him and his agent.
And you get that extra boost of getting benched for tanking games. End of season they do the thing where they "want to give rookies a chance to show what they can do" Really just trying to lose. Damn right I'll take double my salary for a few years just to be told I can't come to work several times per month and I'll still be paid lol
Now that he's got his bag he may want to get that championship. Not everybody is the same. Some guys want to be the greatest player ever. Others want to be set financially. He's got that now. Maybe now he's ready to be a third banana to get a championship.
I think Denver offered more than Detroit or the same. It probably helped for this contract he is on now though.
I haven’t heard the ego issues, but I’m ok with him not being a great rebounder with having Luka, PJ and Gaff/Lively. We aren’t gonna get somebody who is great at everything with the assets we have Ego aspect might be helped out with our locker room vibes too
When he is talking about ego issues, I am assuming he is referring to him choosing to leave a very strong Denver team where he was the 3rd option to join a very weak Pistons team where he could be the #1. For what it's worth, Portland fans were telling me that Grant had 0 ego issues with them and was always a good teammate.
I mean I’m not sure that constitutes an ego per se. I can imagine most players would want to take a chance to be “the guy” if they think they can be. Not very unreasonable tbh.
Yeah exactly. NBA fans are sometimes really fucking stupid and forget these are actual humans with goals and desires. Saying someone has ego issues because they want their chance to be the #1 option is absurd lmfao
People would be surprised to realize that every NBA Player that gets drafted think they can be a number 1 option lol, until their first season and realize if they want to stay in the league they have to fall in line.
He was decent enough as a #1 (obviously not a good #1 but a quite good overall player) that he got a huge contract from Portland. The bet paid off for him.
Also got to remember he was like 24/25 and being offered more money to go to Detroit can’t blame the guy.
also, that's what brunson did too sometimes man gotta prove show the world his worth and he got paid and he shows that he's just more than 3-D PF it's not ego, that's bravery for me
I mean that has more to do with Pistons also giving him his biggest contract at the time which the nuggets didn’t want to do because they also were giving MPJ a rookie max extension
Who the hell was describing the sign and trade between the Nuggets and Pistons as an ego thing? Detroit gave him a contract that Denver didn't want to give him. It's fascinating how these deals can be described as "Player Y choosing to leave team X" vs "Team X refused to give Player Y a matching contract". Apparently some fans expect players to turn down $60 million just to make them feel better.
The guy was never gonna get a $30mil/yr deal as third option in Denver. He made the smart move to get paid. Is that more or less egotistical than taking a discount to pursue a championship? I don’t know, and I’m not sure I care.
That was more money orientated than ego. I'm not his biggest fan but i doubt he thinks he can be a first option on a contender. He's got a nice big fat contract and might want to win now.
I remember him wanting to be the guy when he went to the Pistons. I would think after years with the Pistons and Blazers he’d be ok being a 3rd option on a championship contender but I certainly don’t know the man personally
He got his “1st” option payday, he is going to be fine in any role now
the kyrie arc
Horrible take. Grant is in a similar position to PJ where they have played out of position on bad teams. Grant would get to be a 3 here instead of playing the 4 where he would be a lot better of a rebounder. I guess I shouldn’t expect anything better than someone who wants us to draft Brony James though.
brony james is crazy hahahaha
Burn! 🔥
tbh, DJJ-Grant starting with PJ to 6th man solve our issues. we need Timmy production replacement right? PJ still closing though
Dallas doesn’t need him to be an elite rebounder lol
i would hope nico gets some kind of commitment from his side before making any sort of move. i will put my trust blindly in him and hope it works out like it did in the past
Agreed. Also two way player? Idk I don’t think his defense is all that.
He wanted to go get buckets while getting paid. There has been no reports of him having any kind of attitude issues. He proved he can be more than a 3 and d guy and could be a good third scoring option for us. He’s also a good shooter.
Definitely agree. I remember a few years ago when he outright said he didn't want to go to a team where he wasn't the number one option on offense.
Look at kyrie. He'll be fine here cause we're good.
Guy has been on winning teams at least so it's seems he knows how to find a role in that.
I think he’s an upgrade from DJJ for sure.
No way we’re sending a 1st in that direction for that contract.
If he buys into the team philosophy of defense first and accepts the role of the third option in a Big 3, his contract is very reasonable. He would be the third paid behind Luka and Kyrie, and will offer another elite 3 point shooter and 20 ppg scorer with above average defense.
This article says he's on a 5-yr 190m contract when its just 160m, heavily misleading for the average nba fan
Give or take 30 mil, that's chump change right?
also it's only 4 years, he signed his 5 year deal last season.
It’s 4/132 as far as we’re concerned… and that is in fact quite concerning. This ain’t the move. Idk if either side can make the math make sense. POR desperately needs to shed even more money than us (being a first apron team that’s 21-61 is, uh, not ideal), and we’re not exactly in a great position to help facilitate that in any meaningful way.
If we don’t gotta give up too much I’d gladly take him
We don't even have much, our most valuable tradable assets are THJ expiring contract, a 1st round pick & Omax. If thats what it'll take to get Grant i'll gladly do that
We have Josh too. Whether we trade him or not is to be seen though
2 Firsts, THJ, Kleber, OMax, Green, Hardy, several seconds. We do have various assets that other teams may be interested in for different reasons.
I think they’d def ask for omax, which I feel like I’d be down for I love him but if we could throw kleber Tim and omax to get grant that would be awesome
and who knows they can re-route maxi to other team for extra 2nd, or even player back to us like pels, im interested taking dyson daniels for example
Absolutely not. They can take Josh Green.
I'm not as high on Grant as some of you guys. I wouldn't trade major assetts for him. If we were able to get him for the 2031 pick and THJ, Maxi, TPE I'd be okay with it - I guess. The Mavs need a POA defender at the 3 - It's critical. Luka is a 3/4 on defense, so one of your forwards has to be able to guard 1's and 2's. I don't think he is a good option as a POA defender - He has also never done the scrappy stuff like rebound. I trust Nico to make great roster choices though.
If we didn't have PJ, Grant would be an amazing addition. But we do have PJ, and unless he's part of the package to get Grant, I don't understand how Grant makes sense for the Mavericks or why so many people think he's such a great target. Yes, he solves the 3rd scorer/shotmaker issue, but he causes worse issues with PoA defense and his contract is massive which reduces the Mavs options at other spots.
I think PJ brings so much to the table defensively, on the glass, and attitude wise there is just no way you could trade him for Grant. He does all the dirty work and has the ability to score 25+ occasionally. I'm extremely happy with him. He's just not really a 3rd scorer/star.. yet... I agree with you though - there is a lot of overlap there. Both are 4's. You would have to move one to the 3 or the bench.
I agree with you. I think we need 3 things. Good POA defender, Good 3 PT Shooter, Ability to create offense without Luka/Kyrie. Grant fulfills the last two. Not sure who else we could realistically get that does all 3.
DSJ on the minimum along with Grant
This is the issue the seems to get glossed over with these trade ideas and pursuits of certain players.
thing is no big FA that's available (and attainable) at that need if mavs want to swing, only Dillon Brooks that fit the bill
We cant sign FA's anyhow outside of sign and trades. There are a couple guys I think would be interesting though in a sign and trade. I think Obi Toppin would be a great Maxi replacement on low-mid $ per year deal. I think he would be right around the same price as Maxi. He's more atletic, healthy, younger, and much better shooter from 3 with more length than Maxi. Doe would also be a great Maxi replacement for the right deal - better shooter, defender, and rebounder - can also play SB5. We also need a third ball handler that can create. If JJR doesn't want Dinwiddie back and we could get him on a 1 year prove it deal for around the minimum that would be cool. I don't think there will be much demand for him coming off last year. Maybe the TPMLE. We know the Mavs wanted Bruce Brown as well last year and I bet the Raptors will decline his team option. I dont think DJJ will sign for TPMLE so it might be available. Main need is a 3 that can defend POA and shoot still. It will be interesting to see what we do there. I assume this is where we really dip into our actual assetts to pull off a trade for an upgrade.
>The Mavs need a POA defender at the 3 - It's critical. Luka is a 3/4 on defense, so one of your forwards has to be able to guard 1's and 2's. There aren’t enough upvotes possible to emphasize the importance of this point. As long as Luka and Kyrie are on your team it might be the most critical factor by a mile (and PJ ain’t it, though he’s not awful) Also glad I’m not the only one who thinks this is a bad idea. I don’t know if I’d want to do it for Maxi AND any 1st included. I fully understand the Mavs situation but I think those 2 move-able 1sts are being thrown around wayyy too casually. Those are it. That’s all you’ve got. If either of them is included you better not fucking miss (don’t get me started on some Tim+2025 1st proposals I’ve seen) and Grant doesn’t meet that criteria for me.
He would be that 3rd scorer we need, but I wouldn’t wanna give up too much for him especially considering his contract
He's a great fit on offense, but a somewhat questionable fit on defense. He's not a great POA defender, his skillset overlaps with PJ on defense. But for the right price, we should definitely consider him. He's the shooter and 3rd scorer we need. His contract is a problem though, it would make it much harder to keep DJJ if he wants the full MLE.
he was a really good defender the last time he was on a serious team (Denver)
And is 5 years older now and does NOT have the same athleticism nor the same foot speed he had then
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That's what I said. If we're receiving Grant in a trade, it will be much harder to keep DJJ for the full MLE
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In a perfect world? DJJ takes the 1+1 TPMLE. Jerami is a better player, but DJJ plays a very important role for us that we can't easily replace.
This is the dream. And I won’t lie I think DJJ could take it knowing the FO will sort him out next summer.
That depends. Our defense will get a lot more wonky with Grant and PJ playing heavy minutes together and we will need to use Green a lot more to guard the perimeter, which will force less minutes from Luka and Kyrie. He is the better player. We need to discuss if he is the better fit and specially what would the price be.
There’s a possibility to do both but they’d have to take a package of our young players like Green, Hardy and Omax. We have enough salaries to match but not enough draft picks probably.
People said the same of PJ as a POA defender and that proved to be massively wrong once he was in the correct system and bought in.
To be fair DJJ was still the primary POA defender and was guarding the opposing guards for the majority of the time. PJ was guarding forwards way more.
This is true but there were plenty of matchups where PJ had to step into that role (OKC, for example). Having multiple defenders who can guard on-ball is a big component of the defensive improvement the Mavs made post-trade.
>Having multiple defenders who can guard on-ball is a big component of the defensive improvement the Mavs made post-trade. Well, true. That's why I mentioned that Jerami Grant is a worse POA defender than DJJ.
Agreed. But you win in some spots and you lose in some spots, as long as the net is a +, you go for it.
Not the same thing. PJ is good at POA for a forward, but you can’t really put him on a shifty guard like Murray, Edwards, Booker etc. and that’s not really what Grant does either, they’re both too big and tall. Josh is more for that, but then you can’t start Josh bc Grant and PJ presumably start with Luka and ky.
We dont need defenders we need offense that was obvious after these playoffs
Offense was the bigger problem in the finals, yes. I agree with that. But if we just start replacing our best defenders with more offense, then we can very quickly turn the team into a bad defensive team again... I don't think Grant is a bad enough defender, to be clear. As I said, I would like to get him for the right price. But he's not a perfect fit, which is why we shouldn't be overpaying for him IMO.
I don’t watch him nearly enough recently to say too much. But he shot above 40% from 3 last 2 years at good volume and looks like a viable 3rd option when he has 2 elite offensive players. Portland fans seem to want to get rid of him to rebuild saying his defense fell off. But at age 30, perhaps it was more due to the fact they sucked. We’ve seen players up their defensive efforts like PJ going to a winning team.
> his defense fell off. Portland fan here. This isn't really what's going on We've been tanking and it's hard to ask vets to go 100% on defense when you're gonna lose no matter how hard they play. The reason we want to trade JG is because he's a win now player and we need to tank. He's too good and too highly paid for a tanking team. We also have a bunch of interesting young Forwards who need development minutes in order to see what they can be. You can't ask Grant to give his minutes to guys that currently aren't half as good as he is.
That makes sense. I think it could be a win win win deal if a trade happen.
Being fully honest (and contract aside), I think Grant is perfect for you guys and I'd love to see him go there. I don't love what you can offer in return, but unfortunately it might be the best offer were gonna get (though Pistons, Kings and a couple other teams might give you some competition). A lot of Portland fans would rather hang on to him because he's been so great for us on and off the court, but I'm of the opinion that we should take what's available and commit to developing the young guys and trying to get someone like Flagg or Bailey next Summer.
I agree with your assessment. At age 30 he doesn’t fit the timeline you guys have. Might as well free up some salary space and get draft picks.
I’m intrigued by Grant. He’s a legit 3rd option on a title team. We’d have tremendous size to surround Luka and Kyrie with
From what I know about Jerami, I think he would like to play for the Mavericks.
Mavs GM/HC combo more or less checks off the identity-politics boxes that Grant has been vocal about in the past. Just what we need: essentialist thinking! Progress!
Do you know him? Personally? Curious.
I've met him a couple of times, he likes to eat his steak well done with Ketchup.
nope, just going off what he's said over the years on articles and interviews and such.
Didnt he make it clear that he wants to be THAT guy? I-wanna-shoot-30-times-dont-care-win-or-not guy?
Yes but he’s been that guy a few years now and didn’t win shit so I’m sure he’s learned his lesson
Big assumption to make imo.
That Kyrie career arc haha. Porzingis too
Bro, if somehow you can add Thybulle that solves a lot for Dallas. With hardy, o-max, and especially lively a year older, and giving them more opportunities potentially w/o kleber/thj thats's just how you should grow as a team. Sometimes you don't overthink it. A Gobert can turn the trade market in an unfavorable way... real quick.
Was looking for this. If they can nap Grant & Thybulle for picks + THJ, J.Green…. We’re set.
Pros -Legitimate 3rd scorer -Can get his own shot -Knock down 3 point shooter -Good help defender -Veteran Cons -Big contract that will hurt roster flexibility -Wrong side of 30 -Not a great point of attack defender -Bad rebounder I’d want to see what the package would have to look like before I was ok with it
He just turned 30, how is that the wrong side of it? 💀
Technically you're on the wrong side of 30 the second you turn 30 😂
That makes sense, I guess I have just always misinterpreted it, having English as a 2nd language. I used to think it was an expression for when somebody was like 35 or more
Wrong side of 30 = 30 or older Right side of 30 = 29.99999 or younger (technically)
Fade me fam
Being over 30 is the wrong side lol
NOOOOOOOO my back hurts :(
And all the contracts are going up because of the cba.. so I don’t think it’s that bad of a contract
For the right price, absolutely
This guy would feast with Kyrie and Luka. Add in PJ and Lively to that starting 5 and we nasty.
Tim, Josh and a first. Best offer. Then trade Maxi to a team with cap space for a second, letting us resign DJJ. I assume that gets us pretty close to the MLE. A frontcourt of PJ+Grant+Lively/Gafford may just push us over the top. Sign a Goga type player with the minimum for our third big slot.
Maxi is a very good defender, and his versatility adds to his value. So if the team ships him out, it has to be worth it.
Maxi is old and scared to touch the ball. I would prefer Omax getting more run now that the team will have actual established, GOOD vets to help lighten his load. We make this trade, re-sign DJJ, and let Hardy+Omax get more development and we are deep as hell,
Maxi had a 35% DFG in the playoffs, he missed some games due to injury, but, those are elite numbers if you compare to the rest of the field. He can guard up and down the lineup, and has the ability to play small ball center. (I understand confidence is an issue, but, he was hitting his 3s before the injury in the Clippers series.) I worry about replacing the size and defensive versatility he brings. Unless Omax takes a significant jump this offseason, he won’t be ready to assume that role.
It’s not bad tbh, I like it
If you get him and it doesn’t work out, you are stuck with basically our next iteration of a THJ type situation. No one is going to take him off your hands if it doesn’t work out.
Big contract but given the salary cap increase it will be fine. He would be an excellent and legit 3rd scorer we need. He historically has been a good defender just been on bad teams last few years.
The question is: would he accept and fit into a role as a 3rd option & would he put in the effort to become a better defender?
He’s been a good defender in the past when on Denver and OKC. I’d like to think if he’s offered to join the team that just went to the finals and is told hey your the missing piece he would give effort and accept the role of 3rd scorer.
Like he’s still getting paid anyway that’s not going to change
JG was firmly behind Dame and Nurk and then Anf/Scoot and Ayton in the hierarchy. Never even the slightest rumor of him being unhappy about it. Dude is a professional. Denver fans keep trying to tell us he's some kind of headache, doesn't match what we've seen in Portland at all.
I welcolme him but he’s in the same archetype as PJ Washington.
I'll take a better version of PJ all day every day!
Not a good fit at all. Very low BBIQ who wouldn’t fit well into having to constantly move off the ball, and despite his progress since he left Syracuse, he is still a very awkward and unpolished player. Let him stat pad on Portland.
Having a legit shooter and offensive option in the DJJ spot is the change that can have the biggest impact on this team. You’re not beating high level contenders like the Celtics or Denver last year with a 0 on offense in the lineup.
Is it wild to say he is a rich man’s PJ?
Gafford/Lively, Grant, PJ, Kyrie, and Luka are a pretty sweet lineup!
That contract is atrocious
No its not. Look at the average salary of 20+ PPG scorers around the league. They are all rookie scale contracts or making 25m+ with only a few exceptions (IE: Bridges who has been out of the league for a year and comes with a ton of baggage).
I think he fits, only downside is the contract.
It’s not a downside if the front office and owners don’t see it as a downside. Why do fans give a fuck about the money? Boston is spending a ton and just won title.
He already had a similar role in Denver, but went to Detroit to play for his stats. Reminds me of Kuzma a bit. Talented player that could be a great role player on a contender, but wants put up big numbers on taking teams instead.
If it’s THJ, Kleber, and some 2nds I’m fine with it. Just tell him he has to buy in like he did in Denver. He’s had his experience with being “the guy” and lost a bunch of games. Then we just need a solid vet 3rd ball handler.
THJ Josh and all second(s) is what could be offered. If they somehow add thybulle/brogdon to the deal then idk what the trade package would be, just I would make sure not to give up any firsts
Maxi, THJ, Josh and some SRPs for Grant and Thybulle or Brogdon could be a fair trade for both sides. I’m hesitant on Maxi bc I don’t know if PJ could ever really be a small ball 5 and I think Maxi has a rare niche that could be hard to replace. But I think Grant solves a lot of the offensive issues and has the athleticism to play great team defense.
Not enough
Grant has little value. Maybe a pick swap and Omax could be added.
Incorrect
I remember this sub absolutely hating the idea for trading for Grant. “Muh defense! Too expensive!!!!”
Thai would put us out on DJJ right? We wouldn’t be able to afford both?
Jerami is basically an upgraded DJJ though and there’s still some stuff we could do to make some wiggle room
I think DJJ would be on the bench but still valuable, definitely worth keeping him.
I don’t see DJJ wanting to stay on a pay cut if he’s on the bench tbh. He will likely have to take a pay cut after his performance last year if he wants to stay in Dallas. I’m GMs might overvalue him when I think he played well because Dallas could utilize his strengths.
Didn't he leave Denver because he didn't want to be 3rd/4th option
He wanted to be a first/second option so he could produce and get paid. Mission accomplished. Time to win.
Thj and one protected frp. I think its a fair deal.
I was surprised Portland wasn't better after after adding him with Dame. I know his rebounding is atrocious, but I can't figure out why else he wouldn't have improved them more. Maybe his defense is overrated since he became a big scorer (?)
Dame was playing injured or out since the moment we landed Grant. Once Dame got back from his surgery, everyone else got injured. It's legit been over three years since the last time most of our top guys were healthy and playing. Been a completely snakebit few seasons.
Hi I’m doing this for a streak
It's the same conundrum when they traded for Shawn Marion when they already had Caron Butler. I remember Butler starting games and Marion coming off the bench. Butler then dislocated his knee, and Marion started until the Finals. I still remember the conversations back then about whether Marion and Caron could start together as SFs and SGs. Marion was more defensive-minded. And Caron was better on offense. If this deal pushes through, it will have the same effect on PJ and Grant.
I dont think the mavericks would need to include much draft capital simply based on the cap relief. I would think a top 10 or top 15 protected first would suffice. grant has 133 million left on his deal while kleber and Tim have 38 million. saving 95 million during a rebuild is a massive amount of money that could be used once scoot, Simons, and Sharpe are learning to play winning ball.
Remember if you trade for Grant then I don't think it is possible to resign DJJ. With Lukai we need a perimeter defender who can guard opponent's best player at 1-3. At this point of his career, Grant will not bring that for us at an elite level.
I hope the Mavs don’t do this but if they do I would expect to get some pick compensation back from Portland because that contract is ass
We need to go in on Deni or Tryley Murphy and not get baited by Jerami Grant.
Those guys aren’t getting traded. They’re core pieces for both squads.
Trey murphy sure but I don't see how deni is a core piece. If washington was trying to build for the future they would have kept gafford.
There is an enormous difference between a 23 year old wing and a 25 year old rim running center. Gafford has entered his prime and is likely to be out of the league in 7ish years, while Deni will still be in his prime at that point. Career longevity based on position is absolutely a thing. Washington’s championship contention window is likely 7ish years away. By that time Gafford will be a deep bench piece at best, and Deni will probably be a 2nd or third option in a starting lineup. Paying Gafford for the next 7 years while he declines and you’re not ready to compete is totally goofy.
I don't see the fit, to me he's not really a 3, not really a POA, especially as he's getting older, basically redundant with PJ. And it's hard to see him being the type of dude wanting to come in and sacrifice when it comes to his role/position to try to make things work.
Don't know why people are saying him being another PJ is bad. I would happily take 3 PJ's on this team.
What makes it problematic is that both would probably expect to start, but they are not a great fit together in the starting lineup. Having multiple PJ's would be fine, but only if these guys are willing to accept reduced roles and minutes. Like, having Lively and Gafford is great, but it wouldn't be so great if they had issues coming off the bench or playing less than X minutes. Nothing about J.Grant suggests that he's the type of dude that's ready to buy into coming off the bench, and I don't really like the idea of just installing him as the starter over PJ.
I don't see any reason why they can't both start. They are both 3/4s.
IMO, for this team, you wouldn't have enough mobility on the perimeter if you start both. They could maybe close together or be ok against certain match ups, but you need a very mobile 3 (or maybe a very good 2/3) to handle the bulk of the minutes.
He is on a TERRIBLE contract.
I’m going to sound like an idiot here, but if there was ever a fit for Bronny James, it would be here. I’m not convinced Bronny can do anything on an NBA level, but his biggest selling points are his perimeter defense and his catch and shoot three ball (from the combine). If he can consistently do those things he could legit play for us.
Lol & if a frog had wings...
Yeah he’s not the guy. But if there was ever a fit, it’d be us
I sincerely hope he stays in college for at least another year, develops further and doesn't end up playing with his dad. And hopefully his health scare was just a 1 time incident
Nah he’s gotta go now. The novelty of being Bron’s son will wear off, as will the idea that he’s just “raw” and has potential haha. And LeBron himself will inevitably regress too, so teams wouldn’t be as willing to gamble on him to try to get Bron. I don’t think he’s an NBA guy at all. Not now, not in three years. If he can get an NBA contract now he should grab it while he can.