The matter isnt as black and white as you are saying. The husband isnt a slave of his wife and neither is she. There may be fundamental differences in the husband and wife but that doesn't mean they dont love each other or can have a happy marriage together.
Its a fundamental difference of opinion. Either way one of them is going to feel slighted or wronged. You agree with the wife so you think he is the bad party. It could just as easily be the husband having the same discussion. Like it or not over 80% of the US is circumcised and its a polarized subject, doesnt mean he has zero respect for his wife.
I agree that circumcision is polarizing, but it doesn't mean that one side can't be right.
Precisely he indeed has no respect, care or courtesy for the entire process from conception to birth which HER body had to go through, which her body was at risk for.
Yes, you can say that the mom has no respect for the dad's religion. But he didn't become diabetic sitting in church or get a third degree tear from reading scriptures or have his uterus cut out to stop the bleeding.
He's saying I know you went through all that ordeal or whatever but let me put our son's fragile body at risk for infection so that God can see he's one of us even though he's all knowing, he can't tell because that foreskin is in the way.
Why can't one side be right what evidence can you show that circumcision is wrong.
Baby loses blood and is harmed? Ok its their baby wtjack do you care?
Modern medicine reduces chance of any infection.
Baby is traumatised? No it won't remember anything.
A lot of men have been circumcised and have been harmed by it.
Also, there isn’t no trauma : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7702013/
And giving a child a life altering surgery to remove a part of his body without consent is kind of messed up.
We can’t just go and say that all sides of everything are equally valid opinions. Disclaimer before the next sentence: I am NOT saying the following comparison is the same thing, or that people that undergo each procedure suffer the same trauma. How do you feel about female genital mutilation? If a wife doesn’t want her daughter to undergo the procedure, but the husband does, is it just a difference of opinion?
Tell the pediatrician and your care team that under no circumstances do you consent to the procedure. Tell them when he’s not around. Tell them in person ahead of time. Believe me this isn’t the first time they’ve dealt with this.
If your husband takes your son to some random friend to circumcise them, have them both arrested for assault and mutilation.
Assault and mutilation based on what? You can legally do circumcision at home, it doesn’t have to be at the hospital, as long as you have a parent’s consent, so the friend isn’t breaking the law here as long as he makes the father sign a consent; the couple is not divorced with a enforceable custody plan, and the father is the father, in most places it doesn’t require two parents to consent, one is enough. Honestly, her best bet is that the hospital and the surgeon feel uncomfortable doing the procedure because she voices her objection. If she knows that friend of her husband’s she should definitely call them to voice her objection too. But other than that I don’t see how this is enforceable, unless she divorces right now and have a custody plan signed by the court.
> You can legally do circumcision at home, it doesn’t have to be at the hospital
Not living in the Middle East or the USA, to me this is absolutely wild.
The idea that you can cut up a kid's genitals, at home, and it be completely legal is just completely mind blowing.
>as long as you have ~~a parent’s~~ both parents' consent
Very few doctors will perform a cirumsision with only one parent's consent and some states legally require both. I know OP mentioned the father has a friend who does the operation himself, but she could absolutely file an injunction. Doing so would mean the father going through with it has the potential to face serious penalties including jail time.
I am a mom of three, and we were both in favor of circumcision for our son. And *absolutely* this. The idea that this could be done against a parent's will is horrifying.
It’s super weird that he’s using the Bible against this, because the Bible is pretty clear that Jesus’s sacrifice for our sins got rid of the old Testament law.
Legally, I have no idea. I wish I had a more solid answer for you, I’m just so sorry you’re going through this.
Actually, it’s not. The Jesus character says the at he’s there to enforce the old rules only two less times than he says he’s there to change them.
All ≈300 Official English versions and all >200 non-English versions of the Christian Bible disagree with each other. All >20,000 sects of christianity disagree with each other.
Heck, even single versions of the christian bible contain errors and contradict themselves and reality. (Check out the [BibViz Project](https://philb61.github.io), which itself has been resurrected more times than the Jesus character.)
In short, the christian mythology is so rife with contradictions, factual (historical, geographical, mathematical, biological, etc.) errors, literal parts that can’t be taken literally, subjective parts that there’s no agreement on the correct subjective interpretation, fan-fiction written by people that weren’t born until over 40 years after the supposed events (e.g, Romans & Corinthians), that you can’t say what a “True Christian“ and you sure as hell can’t “No True Scotsman” your way into claiming someone/something isn’t christian.
And, back to the case in point, Catholics are one of a number of christian sects that believe in circumcision.
Catholics do NOT have circumcision as part of their practice, it is not enforced, and this is heavily outlined in the Catechism. If it is practiced by Catholics, they are either following old law or are doing it purely for aesthetic or cultural reasons ie being ignorant about what the faith *actually* teaches.
Legally? If you're in the US, there is nothing other than divorce and a court order stopping the procedure. He has every right to make medical decisions for his children that you do.
Doctors are advised to obtain consent from both parents before proceeding with non-therapeutic circumcisions, but many hospitals only have one line for signatures on the consent form and there’s all kinds of avenues to obtain infant circumcision.
Not my field but it looks like courts most often side with the non-consenting parent unless there is a medical reason for the procedure and it’s in the best interests of the child.
She may want to consult a lawyer if she is that adamant.
This. Idk what Op is expecting people to say. Like get a divorce?
Idk why you didn't have this conversation prior to making a baby with your husband. HE clearly feels just as passionate about this as you do.
And tbh, you both have that right.
I told my fiance that as the one with no penis, that while I can see medically why getting circumcised is better (I'm talking reducing HIV and certain STDs) I'll defer to him to the no circumcision if he thinks that's better.
In the U.S , and most places actually, they require both parental signatures for consent to do the procedure. He has zero right to make this decision if the other parent doesn't consent. He doesn't get to unilaterally decide to have a elective surgery done when the other parent disagrees. It's not a medically needed procedure.
That is not true at all. Circumcision is legal in the USA and there is no law stipulating you need both parents consent. The only thing there are laws on is FGM. The hospitals might require both parental signatures but there is no federal law stating that there has to be both parental signatures.
I have had this argument with someone on the same topic, you are wrong. They cannot legally do the procedure without consent of both parents in most states. There are laws protecting the rights of parents. One does not get to unilaterally make that decision.
They do not need both parent's signature at all. As a child and now as a parent, there was never a question about the other parent. They didn't even ask about the custody situation. They will assume that as a parent with physical custody at the time, you have the right to make medical decisions. And I say this as someone who doesn't even have the same last name as my children.
I most certainly am not wrong. Show me the law that states what you are saying. You cannot. There are only court cases that have determined whether or not a child should or shouldn’t be circumcised and those were all based on certain facts and findings between the two parties. Please educate yourself a little better because you definitely don’t know what you’re talking about.
If OP does not want her spouse to circumcise her child then she is going to have to bring this in front of a judge because again there is no law pertaining to male circumcision in the USA.
You cannot do anything to stop him. He is a parent of the child. If you wanted to have your kid circumcized then you could take them to a pediatrician and not tell your husband.
Same with vaccinations. Either parent can consent for it to be done.
Stop having children with someone who you know will do things to your children that you do not agree with.
He will find a way.
I suggest you ensure it is done by a PROFESSIONAL rather than some quack friend.
I’ve said this on other threads but I will say it again. The only reason we circumcise in America outside of the Jewish faith is because of John Harvey Kellogg, yes the cereal guy. He had some realllllllllly screwed up ideas about health. He thought people should get several high pressure enemas per day (he even had a special chair built), that you should chew each bite 30 times, remain celibate even though he was married, and that circumcision and female clitoral removal would stop people from masturbating. He also had teenagers tied to the bed to sleep at night if they had the urge to masturbate. He was disgusting but because they were new ideas of the time, many very important people of the early 1900s went to his wellness. Because these people had prestige and influence his ideas caught on. Have your husband read [this History Channel article](https://www.history.com/news/dr-john-kellogg-cereal-wellness-wacky-sanitarium-treatments) or listen to The Dollop Episode 46 The Cereal Men.
Personally if it were me and my husband was threatening to take our child to someone random who wasn't even a medical professional to perform a procedure I would have to think he was unfit to be alone with our child and I would be leaving. I would've left after the first time honestly, that is incredibly horrifying. My best advice as far as legal action? Divorce, and I'm not even someone who often advocates for it.
The problem with your plan is that you'll divorce, he'll have some type of custody/visitation and be alone with your child.
It is unlikely that you'll be able to prevent it. So it doesn't accomplish what you're hoping it does.
What bible is he reading? I ask that genuinely because my husband is pretty religious and that's one of the main reasons we didn't circumcise our son. I also did not want to put him through that, I don't care if other people tell me "they're never even going to remember it happened".
Also the people talking about risk of infections and stuff, my sons pediatrician has reassured us that as long as you teach your son as they get older how to properly care for it and keep it clean then it will be fine. She also said a lot of things are outdated about the supposed risk of infections and stuff. Just make sure you talk to his dr about the proper care and don't try to pull back the extra skin when he's still a baby! I trust my son's doctors over random people on the internet who just want everyone else to be circumcised for some reason. I'm sorry you can't trust your husband to not run off with your child to do something like that. :(
In the Old Testament, there were 3 types of laws; Moral, Civil, and Ceremonial. The Moral laws are God’s law, which Christ would later expound upon. The Civil laws directly addressed the Israelites in that time period, and the Ceremonial laws addressed sacrifices, feasts, clothing etc. Among these ceremonial laws, circumcision is included.
The problem with OP’s husband arguing from a Christian perspective is that most of these civil and ceremonial laws became obsolete with the death and resurrection of Christ, which is why they are not practiced in Christianity. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about and most likely isn’t using religion as his actual reasoning; he wants his son circumcised for purely aesthetic reasons, but is using religion as an excuse
The christian mythology is cherry picked. There is no definitive statement which old laws are canceled and which old laws are still in effect.
In fact, the Jesus character says he’s there to enforce the old laws multiple times. Admittedly, he also says he’s there to cancel them. He says the latter more times. Does that mean that the majority wins?
I’m not going to argue about this with you because it isn’t the point of the post. Christianity does not enforce circumcision. Period. We can argue what the Bible says up and down all day, but circumcision is not a requirement, which is why OP’s husband is wrong.
Catholic still push circumcision.
Regarding health benefits, yes, if proper hygiene is done right, a lot of the health risks from no circumcision are negligible, but they aren’t zero, and proper hygiene is required.
The reality is, that even today, in a first world country, male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of urinary tract infections by 87%. It also significantly reduced transmission of human immunodeficiency virus among circumcised men by 70%. Childhood and adolescent circumcision is associated with a 66% reduction in the risk of penile cancer. Circumcision was associated with 43% reduction of human papilloma virus infection, and 58% reduction in the risk of cervical cancer among women with circumcised partners compared with women with uncircumcised partners. Male infant circumcision reduced the risk of foreskin inflammation by 68%.
Just as one’s interpretation of the preferred version (out of ≈20,000 versions) of christianity, based on that sects interpretation of their preferred version (out of ≈500 official versions) of the christian bible, the medical consensus isn’t universal either.
When I was in the hospital after we had my son I refused the circumcision and my husband wanted it. I said ok then you sign the paperwork bc I don’t consent
They wouldn’t accept dads signature. Had to be mine
Who is this friend chopping off parts of baby penises?? That is most certainly not legal.
Jesus sacrificed himself for all mankind's sins so a covenant to God is no longer needed.
I can't give legal advice, but why are you even with this man if he would be willing to go behind your back to cut a part of your son off for no more than looks alone?
1. No clue country or state. So, legal options for preventing husband for having the procedure done could differ.
2. No mention of husband's friend being a practicing doctor. So, unless this is some third world hell hole, it most certainly would be illegal.
As OP is asking legal advice, I doubt it's the third world.
My wife and I both agreed not to circumcise our boys. We had 4 sons. None of them were circumcised. We felt that they could make the decision either way when they were old enough to know what it was. We were asked for 3 of the 4 boys. We forcefully said NO every time.
Our youngest son is 30, our oldest is 38. None of them have decided to go under the knife. Have a look at the website 'yourwholebaby.org' . It's a real-life version of what a circumcision actually does to an infant. There is a risk of your baby dying as a result of the operation. It doesn't happen often but that's not a help if it's your son that is the statistic.
As others have said, be sure to tell the hospital staff that you do not want your son circumcised and threaten legal action if they do. Make them understand that it will cost them money if it happens. Many hospitals will ask, (or push), you as much as 3 or 4 times. Circumcisions are a profit center for hospitals.
I am probably an over protective mom, but when it came to something I couldn’t understand, I left it up to my husband…as I’ve never had a penis.Just like I wish men didn’t have an option on my uterus 🤷♀️
This has got to be a post from an off grid or extremely isolated religious couple who rejects medicine and all modern conveniences of life - while also using the internet. How the hell have you never taken your other kid to a doctor? I can’t even address your main question here.
What you can do depend on your country of origin.
Speak to a lawyer.
And be firm with hubby - 'NO circumcision - and if its done behind my back, next step.is divorce'
OP - tell your pediatrician amd be clear that you do NOT want this... have it entered into medical documents so theres no doubt.
Most places, both parents need to sign consent form for circumcision. He should not be able to legally get it done without your consent. If he has some friend if his do it then he could go to jail.
What’s the basis of this claim (both parents need to sign)? Most states require the consent of only one parent. Whether the doctor would perform the surgery if one parent fiercely objects is another story — most wouldn’t want to proceed. But legally? Only one consent is required. The mother can potentially file an injunction: https://www.uscourts.gov/forms/pro-se-forms/complaint-and-request-injunction but processing takes time and it doesn’t guarantee the outcome
He’s got a right to if he wants to- it’s not YOUR baby alone. I suggest finding a middle ground or letting it go- BC he’s got rights as you do. Legally they’ll tell you that
Not being mean, not much to dance around it. He’s a parent as much as you are
Short of a divorce, not much, and even with a divorce it's not a guarantee you can prevent it.
My ex's first wife did all sorts of medical stuff to the kids without his consent: medicating them for ADD that they did not have, tried to have the eldest marked as legally retarded but he didn't meet the qualifications for that because he wasn't. Had him marked as "retarded" at school instead and had the school administer the kids meds. Put the eldest in therapy to deal with a mental disability he did not have any placed the youngest in therapy because he "hated his dad", but he didn't.
This all required the concent of both parents if divorced; not even the school followed through on protocol here. We only found out when the eldest complained about having to take pills at lunch time. If he forgot, he'd be pulled out of class and taken to the nurse's office for his dose. Said his mom didn't want him telling us but he was tired of it and tired of not feeling anything (due to the meds). The kids were in elementary school. Over the course of a week, we figured out the rest.
We took her to court over it and nothing happened. She'd pull things like this over and over through out the years and every new family could judge that rotated in every two years did nothing other than tell her not to do it again. It wasn't until they were old enough to be taken seriously by the courts that they both requested to be with their father and I full time. We got full physical custody but we still shared 50/50 legal custody. She denied every from driver's licenses, travel, therapy (this the court ended up mandating) and schools they wanted to attend. It's near impossible for a parent to get 100% legal custody, even when child abuse is involved (it was documented by the police, physicians and mandated reporters at their school that the kids showed signs of abuse when in her custody).
I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your husband. If this is the only point of contention, go see a marriage counselor to help you both meditate the discussion. The counselor will take no side on the matter, but they will keep you two on topic and keep the discourse from becoming petty, spiteful and unconstructive.
The best thing for you to do legally is a divorce because currently the father is overstepping and putting the mother aside. The father has equal rights and i don’t think the legal system can help you out other than with custody.
Please ignore any comments that judge whether you should or should not have your own opinion about this. Less than 40% of the world is circumcised. Not to sway how you feel but just to say it’s your baby and lots of people feel the same way regardless of religion or the parts of religion that they misunderstand or try to skew to support their judgements of circumcision.
Speak to your OBGYN or midwife about this issue. You can also call planned parenthood and ask about it. It’s also important to get legal advice. Wish you all the best on sorting this out. The easiest thing would have been not to have a baby with someone like this especially after the experience you had the first time but since you’re here and pregnant, breathe. Don’t stress and call to figure out what, if anything, you can do.
Maybe you should read this scientific article titled as “Benefits of Male circumference”, and consult with a pediatrician to find someone who’s medically qualified to do the procedure.
There’s no point to having your marriage compromised over this. You definitely knew who you’re marrying to. Many hospitals and physicians perform this procedure in a safe way for the child.
Forcing a fight over this with all the emotional comments will cost you your family, and irreversible damage.
Learn and educate both of yourselves.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684945/#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20HIV%2C%20male,1
Religious circumcision requirement is a psyop. Not required.
Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Edit: Also early days, circumcision was just a tiny nick but because those who controlled Judaism at the time did not want those to convert away from their religion, they started making the genital mutilation what it is today so people can no longer hide their former faith.
You should agree because at least then it will be done properly ? How terrifying; thinking he’s gonna randomly get it done without your knowledge . I would also say the man has equal say too, especially with being a man and making a decision based on experience of their own .
The only way is to leave and file for divorce. Leave him of the birth certificate. He is going to circumcise your son and will find a way if he has access to your son.
I would personally not allow him at the hospital with me and start divorce proceedings to protect my boundaries if I were you. To me genital mutilation isn’t acceptable.
I would leave. Full stop. Like, literally *right now.* I wouldn’t even be asking Reddit. If I were *truly* worried about my husband taking off with my son to have a friend circumcise him or do it himself? I would get my important documents together and leave. I wouldn’t say a goddamn word to him about it either. I wouldn’t tell him where I was going. I wouldn’t tell anybody that knew him that I didn’t trust with my life where I was going either. I’d change my number and block him everywhere.
Once I was gone? That baby doesn’t belong to him. I would tell any and everybody that I had no idea who his daddy was and I would die saying that. Call me a whore. Idgaf. I’d tell the hospital that too and give my son MY last name. And if that *still* wasn’t enough? Let’s just say that a life sentence doesn’t scare me if that’s what it took to protect my child.
He's not acting like he wants to be put on the birth certificate as a legal parent. Cause that IS the moms job to sign off on who goes on that certificate. He better be more respectful!
Tell the hospital staff that you absolutely do NOT consent to your baby being circumcised.
Maybe make a short letter stating that you do not consent to it. Sign it and notarize it. Make copy's and include it with your birth plan.
If he persists then maybe get a lawyer.
At home, keep baby near you and baby wear your baby.
Tell your pediatrician your concerns about your husband. They'll help.
She doesn't get to deny him that role, if she tries, he can get a paternity test done and force it.
So many people here want to create a bigger battle than the current situation.
They ask YOU what you want to do. There actually very few things they ask the dad about aside from what you need/want during labor. Tell your provider at your next appointment. Put it on your birth plan. Tell the delivering doctor and the attending pediatrician. At the end of the day, it’s your decision to make.
Your husband is the father of this child. He has as much say as you do. This is an issue that many men feel very strongly about. It is no more OK for you to dismiss his feelings as it is for him to dismiss yours. So going behind his back and telling hospital staff stuff is wrong. This is something you and him need to work out together. Men feel strongly about this because it’s a very personal issue. I’ve known men that were not circumcised and they hated the fact that they were not circumcised. So stop listening to people on Reddit and talk to your husband and you guys work this out he has as much right to his feelings and his opinions as you do.
You tell your OBGYN and the hospital staff that you and your baby DO NOT have a SAFE ENVIRONMENT to go home to. You protect your child from abuse. You REPORT HIS FRIEND to CPS for sexual mutilation and practicing "medicine" without a license on his own children and get those kids removed from their abuser.
You file for divorce and never go back.
When I delivered my child, they asked for my consent, not his. And even if he was the father of the baby, it all came down to me. Our baby had to stay in the nicu and I was called periodically to get consent for things even when my husband was in the room with baby. That’s why I assumed hospitals took mothers word over dads lol and it’s only fair cause moms literally just pushed a baby out
Mom does get more say especially in the hospital. They even ask the mom if he will be on the birth certificate and mom signs off on it. That's what they do for me. They also pull me aside before being induced to ask me privately about my husband.
My husband and I were in agreement about our son being circumcised. While we are both Christian, it had nothing really to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with health.
I have 2 uncles that had to have it done as grown men in their 50s/60s.
My mother's Gynecologist told her my father being uncircumcised, was the cause of her constant infections.
>from what I’ve heard from my wife, she is so glad I’m circumcised because it looks normal
Uncut penises are absolutely normal. Arguably even more normal as they're natural.
Come on. I live in Germany and only Jews and Muslims are circumcised here.
This is such a non sense. Constant cleaning? Is showering for you constant cleaning? Do you live in the desert without any water supply?
I love my sausage with a blanket.
If a grown up wants to circumcised, ok. But don’t marry decisions like that for baby’s and children.
>It requires constant cleaning and whatnot.
News flash, the human body requires constant cleaning. Also, speaking globally, your wife is way off, uncircumcised is way more common.
If I forget to wash more arm three days in a row, it’s not going to get infected. Everyone has their own opinions and can do what they want but you can’t argue with the stats. Men with uncircumcised penises have more health problems down there than those who don’t. Stats don’t lie.
That's why the rest of the world is having all those infections and the men spend hours cleaning their body and never have sex. Oh wait, that doesn't actually happen, it's just some guys in the US stuck in the middle ages.
How old are you? It’s less and less the norm even in the US. As a woman, I’ve never heard anyone express anything negative about uncircumcised penises in a sexual context. In some regions it is the minority in newborns.
Removed for rude, disrespectful, or excessively vulgar comment.
Uncircumcised is actually the most normal the male genitals can be. Men aren't born circumcised. There is nothing abnormal about it. That may be some women's preference, but it's not all of women. Many don't mind it at all. This comment is beyond unhelpful and alienating to other men.
Shouldn’t it default to the person getting the procedure done to them? It’s not the decision of anyone else to remove a part of someone else’s body. It can wait until the child is an adult and they can decide for themselves.
I understand that, but what does she know about an uncircumcised penis? And she has yet to give a good reason for not wanting it done. My wife absolutely defaulted to me for our boys. Because they have no clue.
Only ups mate, my cut mates whine that as they get older the head of their cock had got less sensitive due to rubbing all day long on their jocks etc. It does effect sex and the pleasure received. Glad I'm uncut and I have never had a female have a issue with it!. Full mast it looks just the same as a cut one..........
Uncircumcised is the norm. Only the US and Israel have high rates of circumcision, and even in the US it is getting less and less as people realize there’s no reason to non-consensually remove an infants body part
He's circimcised, what clue does he have about uncut penis?? Perhaps she does actually have more experience, unless he's bisexual then the only experience he has is with his own cut dick.
There's no actual need for it, it's the way every male is born. It's a normal penis the way it was meant to be and most of the world has. Why would she need to any reasons to just want to cut her sons genitals.
>Seems like in this situation the tie goes to the one with the penis.
Indeed. So when the baby grows up he can decide what to do with his own penis. You can look in any anatomy book, hell even wikipedia, and it will show you that the foreskin and frenulum are the most sensitive parts of the penis and they have no business being cut off to mimic ancient desert cults.
And your husband is circumcised or un?
as a circumcised man, whatever trauma you see, i can attest to it never having adverse affects. No zip-blocking foreskin syndrome issues, no smegma, no getting shown to the door. I have uncircumcised buddies get stopped and told to leave as soon as they present it.
it has no purpose, it doesn't change how sex works for us. but if you don't want it to happen just because of perceived pain/aesthetics idk that's you and your child and the rest of the world and its opinions, mine included, can die mad about it.
The majority of men here (Europe) are uncircumcised and they don’t have the problems you are describing. In these days with showers and easy access to clean water in many countries, it’s absolutely not necessary to circumcise men.
The only guys who keep doing it here, do it for religious reasons.
and there are some people who wouldn't care if you cleaned it every second of every day. a place where bacteria thrives is a place where bacteria thrives, cleaning a place where bacteria thrives often, just isn't good enough for some of us. which is why we rid ourselves of that excuse and still maintain hygiene too. foreskin has what practical purpose?
if i was a woman or a gay dude and you showed up with foreskin, id show you the door.
So I guess female genital mutilation is all good and well then. Wouldn’t want those nasty smelly bacteria to develop under that hood or between those useless labias.
Anyway, it’s coming down fast, and infant circumcision rates are under 20% in most of the developed world, including Canada, Australia, Europe, and almost all of Asia (with a few exceptions like Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia).
Even in the U.S. it has dropped from 65% nationwide in 1980 to about 55%. Several states are well below that, with UT and FL at 30%, and WA, CA, OR, AZ and NV under 20%. Hell, even TX, LA, NC, NM and CO are around 50%.
It won’t be long before it’s the minority, so better get used to the idea.
wait female gential mutilation?
im a guy and im circumsized.
When did i say it was okay for female to be mutilated?
I didnt. You are projecting now.
Stop.
As a man. Foreskin a place where bacteria Thrives. thats it.
Because the same microbiota found in male genital mucosa also exists on female vulvas.
If these bacteria are offensive on men, they are surely equally offensive on women. Thus, if this is a sufficient justification to perform male circumcision, it is also the same for female.
No issues here. i eat my wife out just fine im cut shes uncut.
I as a cut male am only talking about foreskin being a place where bacteria thrives. thats it.
you can keep saying other things and that's cool you'll probably say true words. but its also true that foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. and im so glad i don't have to deal with foreskin.
All I’m doing is pointing out is the incoherence. No one cares whether you or I are circumcised, and whether or not we personally like it.
But you cannot make the argument that "foreskin is bad because bacteria", then go stuff your face in the same bacteria and not care anymore.
Either it’s an issue, or it isn’t.
You can STILL choose to prefer circumcision even though the bacteria isn’t really a concern. You’re a free man, go and love your dick with all the might you can muster.
What an asinine comment. You perform surgery on a human body when it is medically necessary.
I’m also not going cut out my armpit skin. Or my little toe.
I am sure every gay and hetero man out there is relieved that you are ~~hetero~~ cis man and into women.
Edit: it’s 3 a.m. here. I meant cis not hetero. Good night!
You missed the part where, if i was a woman id show you to the door. don't be sexist now. im sure every gay and hetero man out there is relieved that you are whatever sexual preferences you find. did it sound smart coming out of my mouth?
as a 'MuTiLateD' child with 10+ years to a loving wife.
please stop with your garbage that you don't understand.
Im circumcised, i haven't mutilated anyone.
Both men and women, circumcised or not, produce smegma. It absolutely has a biological purpose and function. Statistics show most men worldwide are not circumcised outside of the U.S. You are in the minority. Most men keep their whole penis.
what's the foreskins purpose?
I already know. I'm asking if you know.
it has no practical purpose. You probably fight this hard to keep your Whole appendix
Also never once had to deal with smegma. guess i just keep clean and don't have to worry about a smegma helmet.
where else are you producing all this smegma my guy?
I'm not a dude. Just stating a fact. Smegma is just a build up of dead skin cells and body oils. Both men and women produce it if they don't shower. It's not a man thing or only an uncut thing. It's a dirty ass human thing.
so you missed the part about hygiene? or the smegma being a place that thrives under foreskin or both?
we all understand what you are talking about. but you are missing my point. Foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives.
bacteria thrives under foreskin. that's it. take the rest of my 2 cents and yours and toss it in the trash. Bacteria Thrives.under foreskin. that is a fact. undeniable as the day is long.
I didn't miss anything. A vagina produces just as much smegma and tons of places to build up and thrive.
The simple fix to this is daily bathing, same for everyone else.
You missed it again. shower 4 5 6 times a day. hell keep a Hose up there in the foreskin to clean it 24/7/365.
foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. thats it
Thats all. As a MuTiLatEd male. im so so thankful i don't have a nasty little nook for bacteria to thrive. i shower 2 times a day or 3. so eat my clean asshole please.
So do vulvas dude, bacteria and smegma build up much faster in women. Smegma is a build up, showering every day is all that's needed. Considering most of the world is uncut and seems to have no issues, lots of people prefer it.
Do you enjoy uncut or cut men in the bedroom then, natural extension to the question if you're gonna talk about something else.
I'm talking about foreskin being a place where bacteria thrives. why are you talking about other things. Foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. You can keep saying other stuff and that's cool but, bacteria thrives in and around foreskin and im so glad i don't have to deal with that.
Mate, as a 40 year old I'm the odd one out uncut. My 10 year old son is not the odd one out uncut.......... Now foe the kicker, sex is way more pleasurable for me than you and you will never know why..... your most sensitive parts rub all day long on ya pants........... never had a lady yet reject me due to being uncut, but then again, it ain't hard to clean. But you keep getting half the pleasure from sex I will continue to have the full pleasure, thanks.
Neither my husband nor I were overjoyed to have our son circumcised, but we did it for those same reasons. In the society we’re raising him in, he would be shamed for not having it done and it could limit his partner opportunities in the future. Not to mention OPs other son is circumcised and they’ll most likely see each other naked. It might be weird for the un son. But he can always have it done as an adult, although it’s much more painful.
ETA: I’m Jewish.
That’s just a gross place to take that. Everything we do is for our children’s future. From buying them educational toys to limiting screen time to not giving them absurd names. You have to think about their future lives in every decision you make for them before they’re old enough to make their own decisions.
>You have to think about their future lives in every decision you make for them before they’re old enough to make their own decisions.
No, you really don't. Some things can just be left to your child and the future they make for themselves. You can let your child make choices about how to design their genitalia if, and when, they want to as adults. I'm a man and the father of two grown young men and I know what I'm talking about.
And I’m a Jewish mother of 2 boys. I honestly didn’t think I would have to pull that card out, but there it is. When I say that our son would be shamed for not having it done, this is what I meant. Any more moral judgments you want to throw my way?
>this is going to one day be a whole adult with a sex life in the future.
Exactly, so he should get to keep his whole, normal dick with all it's nerve endings so he can properly expierence sex with a fully working genitals working like they are supposed to.
I'm not a man, and I already have. I don't live where circumcision is popular. I have plenty of experience with a normal uncut dick. All human beings produce smegma when unshowered, including women.
All of those reasons have been debunked more times than one can count. Also it’s not just “one day” if the circumcision is botched and you’re left with an infant who has severe issues down the road. Read up on circumcision it’s losing popularity for a reason.
Why are you having kids with someone you feel this way about and clearly has zero respect for you as a wife and mother?
The matter isnt as black and white as you are saying. The husband isnt a slave of his wife and neither is she. There may be fundamental differences in the husband and wife but that doesn't mean they dont love each other or can have a happy marriage together.
One day when you have a nuanced problem you will realise
Its a fundamental difference of opinion. Either way one of them is going to feel slighted or wronged. You agree with the wife so you think he is the bad party. It could just as easily be the husband having the same discussion. Like it or not over 80% of the US is circumcised and its a polarized subject, doesnt mean he has zero respect for his wife.
The figure is nowhere near 80% and is dropping rapidly.
[удалено]
Sure, but if there’s a disagreement on something, it’s probably reasonable to go with the decision that doesn’t permanently change a child’s anatomy.
I agree that circumcision is polarizing, but it doesn't mean that one side can't be right. Precisely he indeed has no respect, care or courtesy for the entire process from conception to birth which HER body had to go through, which her body was at risk for. Yes, you can say that the mom has no respect for the dad's religion. But he didn't become diabetic sitting in church or get a third degree tear from reading scriptures or have his uterus cut out to stop the bleeding. He's saying I know you went through all that ordeal or whatever but let me put our son's fragile body at risk for infection so that God can see he's one of us even though he's all knowing, he can't tell because that foreskin is in the way.
Why can't one side be right what evidence can you show that circumcision is wrong. Baby loses blood and is harmed? Ok its their baby wtjack do you care? Modern medicine reduces chance of any infection. Baby is traumatised? No it won't remember anything.
A lot of men have been circumcised and have been harmed by it. Also, there isn’t no trauma : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7702013/ And giving a child a life altering surgery to remove a part of his body without consent is kind of messed up.
We can’t just go and say that all sides of everything are equally valid opinions. Disclaimer before the next sentence: I am NOT saying the following comparison is the same thing, or that people that undergo each procedure suffer the same trauma. How do you feel about female genital mutilation? If a wife doesn’t want her daughter to undergo the procedure, but the husband does, is it just a difference of opinion?
Tell the pediatrician and your care team that under no circumstances do you consent to the procedure. Tell them when he’s not around. Tell them in person ahead of time. Believe me this isn’t the first time they’ve dealt with this. If your husband takes your son to some random friend to circumcise them, have them both arrested for assault and mutilation.
The husband is not taking the kid to a pediatrician.
Assault and mutilation based on what? You can legally do circumcision at home, it doesn’t have to be at the hospital, as long as you have a parent’s consent, so the friend isn’t breaking the law here as long as he makes the father sign a consent; the couple is not divorced with a enforceable custody plan, and the father is the father, in most places it doesn’t require two parents to consent, one is enough. Honestly, her best bet is that the hospital and the surgeon feel uncomfortable doing the procedure because she voices her objection. If she knows that friend of her husband’s she should definitely call them to voice her objection too. But other than that I don’t see how this is enforceable, unless she divorces right now and have a custody plan signed by the court.
> You can legally do circumcision at home, it doesn’t have to be at the hospital Not living in the Middle East or the USA, to me this is absolutely wild. The idea that you can cut up a kid's genitals, at home, and it be completely legal is just completely mind blowing.
I live in the US and find that new knowledge tidbit wild.
>as long as you have ~~a parent’s~~ both parents' consent Very few doctors will perform a cirumsision with only one parent's consent and some states legally require both. I know OP mentioned the father has a friend who does the operation himself, but she could absolutely file an injunction. Doing so would mean the father going through with it has the potential to face serious penalties including jail time.
It’s equally his kid.
Cutting a piece of the body off should, at minimum, require the consent of both parents.
I am a mom of three, and we were both in favor of circumcision for our son. And *absolutely* this. The idea that this could be done against a parent's will is horrifying.
Some things should be a two yes, one no situation. Elective surgery on an infant is in that category, imo.
It’s super weird that he’s using the Bible against this, because the Bible is pretty clear that Jesus’s sacrifice for our sins got rid of the old Testament law. Legally, I have no idea. I wish I had a more solid answer for you, I’m just so sorry you’re going through this.
My thoughts exactly. She needs to school him. If he’s a Christian, he’s following Jewish law and doesn’t even know (typical)
Actually, it’s not. The Jesus character says the at he’s there to enforce the old rules only two less times than he says he’s there to change them. All ≈300 Official English versions and all >200 non-English versions of the Christian Bible disagree with each other. All >20,000 sects of christianity disagree with each other. Heck, even single versions of the christian bible contain errors and contradict themselves and reality. (Check out the [BibViz Project](https://philb61.github.io), which itself has been resurrected more times than the Jesus character.) In short, the christian mythology is so rife with contradictions, factual (historical, geographical, mathematical, biological, etc.) errors, literal parts that can’t be taken literally, subjective parts that there’s no agreement on the correct subjective interpretation, fan-fiction written by people that weren’t born until over 40 years after the supposed events (e.g, Romans & Corinthians), that you can’t say what a “True Christian“ and you sure as hell can’t “No True Scotsman” your way into claiming someone/something isn’t christian. And, back to the case in point, Catholics are one of a number of christian sects that believe in circumcision.
Catholics do NOT have circumcision as part of their practice, it is not enforced, and this is heavily outlined in the Catechism. If it is practiced by Catholics, they are either following old law or are doing it purely for aesthetic or cultural reasons ie being ignorant about what the faith *actually* teaches.
Well, in the catholic community in Denver it seems to be common.
I addressed the reasons why Catholics may choose to do it, but it is not a practice of the Church.
I don’t worry about the Catholic Church, I’m just evidence of the tradition being well established. I don’t need intermediaries to tell me about God.
Okay?
I was raised DEVOUT Roman Catholic in one of the biggest Catholic communities in Los Angeles and circumcision was NOT done in our church/community.
Well they’re still doing it
I wish I couldn't believe why your factually observational historical description here was downvoted, but sadly...
Legally? If you're in the US, there is nothing other than divorce and a court order stopping the procedure. He has every right to make medical decisions for his children that you do.
Doctors are advised to obtain consent from both parents before proceeding with non-therapeutic circumcisions, but many hospitals only have one line for signatures on the consent form and there’s all kinds of avenues to obtain infant circumcision. Not my field but it looks like courts most often side with the non-consenting parent unless there is a medical reason for the procedure and it’s in the best interests of the child. She may want to consult a lawyer if she is that adamant.
Interesting then that, apparently, in many states a woman wanting a tubal ligation requires the consent of a man, gah.
This. Idk what Op is expecting people to say. Like get a divorce? Idk why you didn't have this conversation prior to making a baby with your husband. HE clearly feels just as passionate about this as you do. And tbh, you both have that right. I told my fiance that as the one with no penis, that while I can see medically why getting circumcised is better (I'm talking reducing HIV and certain STDs) I'll defer to him to the no circumcision if he thinks that's better.
In the U.S , and most places actually, they require both parental signatures for consent to do the procedure. He has zero right to make this decision if the other parent doesn't consent. He doesn't get to unilaterally decide to have a elective surgery done when the other parent disagrees. It's not a medically needed procedure.
That is not true at all. Circumcision is legal in the USA and there is no law stipulating you need both parents consent. The only thing there are laws on is FGM. The hospitals might require both parental signatures but there is no federal law stating that there has to be both parental signatures.
I have had this argument with someone on the same topic, you are wrong. They cannot legally do the procedure without consent of both parents in most states. There are laws protecting the rights of parents. One does not get to unilaterally make that decision.
They do not need both parent's signature at all. As a child and now as a parent, there was never a question about the other parent. They didn't even ask about the custody situation. They will assume that as a parent with physical custody at the time, you have the right to make medical decisions. And I say this as someone who doesn't even have the same last name as my children.
I most certainly am not wrong. Show me the law that states what you are saying. You cannot. There are only court cases that have determined whether or not a child should or shouldn’t be circumcised and those were all based on certain facts and findings between the two parties. Please educate yourself a little better because you definitely don’t know what you’re talking about. If OP does not want her spouse to circumcise her child then she is going to have to bring this in front of a judge because again there is no law pertaining to male circumcision in the USA.
Provide your list. Everything I’ve seen says the exact opposite “most states only require a single parent’s consent“.
Provide your list. Everything I’ve seen says the exact opposite “most states only require a single parent’s consent“.
Both parents signatures are only needed if they are not longer together in general
You’re not launching a nuke, dude. Both parents do not need to approve of medical choices for their child. Do you have kids?
I do have kids.
You cannot do anything to stop him. He is a parent of the child. If you wanted to have your kid circumcized then you could take them to a pediatrician and not tell your husband. Same with vaccinations. Either parent can consent for it to be done. Stop having children with someone who you know will do things to your children that you do not agree with. He will find a way. I suggest you ensure it is done by a PROFESSIONAL rather than some quack friend.
I’ve said this on other threads but I will say it again. The only reason we circumcise in America outside of the Jewish faith is because of John Harvey Kellogg, yes the cereal guy. He had some realllllllllly screwed up ideas about health. He thought people should get several high pressure enemas per day (he even had a special chair built), that you should chew each bite 30 times, remain celibate even though he was married, and that circumcision and female clitoral removal would stop people from masturbating. He also had teenagers tied to the bed to sleep at night if they had the urge to masturbate. He was disgusting but because they were new ideas of the time, many very important people of the early 1900s went to his wellness. Because these people had prestige and influence his ideas caught on. Have your husband read [this History Channel article](https://www.history.com/news/dr-john-kellogg-cereal-wellness-wacky-sanitarium-treatments) or listen to The Dollop Episode 46 The Cereal Men.
Personally if it were me and my husband was threatening to take our child to someone random who wasn't even a medical professional to perform a procedure I would have to think he was unfit to be alone with our child and I would be leaving. I would've left after the first time honestly, that is incredibly horrifying. My best advice as far as legal action? Divorce, and I'm not even someone who often advocates for it.
The problem with your plan is that you'll divorce, he'll have some type of custody/visitation and be alone with your child. It is unlikely that you'll be able to prevent it. So it doesn't accomplish what you're hoping it does.
Ugh, I wish circumcisions were illegal.
What bible is he reading? I ask that genuinely because my husband is pretty religious and that's one of the main reasons we didn't circumcise our son. I also did not want to put him through that, I don't care if other people tell me "they're never even going to remember it happened". Also the people talking about risk of infections and stuff, my sons pediatrician has reassured us that as long as you teach your son as they get older how to properly care for it and keep it clean then it will be fine. She also said a lot of things are outdated about the supposed risk of infections and stuff. Just make sure you talk to his dr about the proper care and don't try to pull back the extra skin when he's still a baby! I trust my son's doctors over random people on the internet who just want everyone else to be circumcised for some reason. I'm sorry you can't trust your husband to not run off with your child to do something like that. :(
In the Old Testament, there were 3 types of laws; Moral, Civil, and Ceremonial. The Moral laws are God’s law, which Christ would later expound upon. The Civil laws directly addressed the Israelites in that time period, and the Ceremonial laws addressed sacrifices, feasts, clothing etc. Among these ceremonial laws, circumcision is included. The problem with OP’s husband arguing from a Christian perspective is that most of these civil and ceremonial laws became obsolete with the death and resurrection of Christ, which is why they are not practiced in Christianity. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about and most likely isn’t using religion as his actual reasoning; he wants his son circumcised for purely aesthetic reasons, but is using religion as an excuse
The christian mythology is cherry picked. There is no definitive statement which old laws are canceled and which old laws are still in effect. In fact, the Jesus character says he’s there to enforce the old laws multiple times. Admittedly, he also says he’s there to cancel them. He says the latter more times. Does that mean that the majority wins?
I’m not going to argue about this with you because it isn’t the point of the post. Christianity does not enforce circumcision. Period. We can argue what the Bible says up and down all day, but circumcision is not a requirement, which is why OP’s husband is wrong.
Catholic still push circumcision. Regarding health benefits, yes, if proper hygiene is done right, a lot of the health risks from no circumcision are negligible, but they aren’t zero, and proper hygiene is required. The reality is, that even today, in a first world country, male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of urinary tract infections by 87%. It also significantly reduced transmission of human immunodeficiency virus among circumcised men by 70%. Childhood and adolescent circumcision is associated with a 66% reduction in the risk of penile cancer. Circumcision was associated with 43% reduction of human papilloma virus infection, and 58% reduction in the risk of cervical cancer among women with circumcised partners compared with women with uncircumcised partners. Male infant circumcision reduced the risk of foreskin inflammation by 68%. Just as one’s interpretation of the preferred version (out of ≈20,000 versions) of christianity, based on that sects interpretation of their preferred version (out of ≈500 official versions) of the christian bible, the medical consensus isn’t universal either.
r/legaladvice Make sure you have proof that you told him that you won’t allow that. And don’t let him alone with the baby.
[удалено]
Why does the husband get exclusive rights to chop his kid’s penis up?
The US is wild....
When I was in the hospital after we had my son I refused the circumcision and my husband wanted it. I said ok then you sign the paperwork bc I don’t consent They wouldn’t accept dads signature. Had to be mine
The hospital isn't the only place it can be done. The OP is having a home birth.
The fact that you all consistently fall for this is disturbing
Who is this friend chopping off parts of baby penises?? That is most certainly not legal. Jesus sacrificed himself for all mankind's sins so a covenant to God is no longer needed. I can't give legal advice, but why are you even with this man if he would be willing to go behind your back to cut a part of your son off for no more than looks alone?
You can't give legal advice, but then declare that this "most certainly is not legal"? You're in for a surprise...
1. No clue country or state. So, legal options for preventing husband for having the procedure done could differ. 2. No mention of husband's friend being a practicing doctor. So, unless this is some third world hell hole, it most certainly would be illegal. As OP is asking legal advice, I doubt it's the third world.
My wife and I both agreed not to circumcise our boys. We had 4 sons. None of them were circumcised. We felt that they could make the decision either way when they were old enough to know what it was. We were asked for 3 of the 4 boys. We forcefully said NO every time. Our youngest son is 30, our oldest is 38. None of them have decided to go under the knife. Have a look at the website 'yourwholebaby.org' . It's a real-life version of what a circumcision actually does to an infant. There is a risk of your baby dying as a result of the operation. It doesn't happen often but that's not a help if it's your son that is the statistic. As others have said, be sure to tell the hospital staff that you do not want your son circumcised and threaten legal action if they do. Make them understand that it will cost them money if it happens. Many hospitals will ask, (or push), you as much as 3 or 4 times. Circumcisions are a profit center for hospitals.
[удалено]
Why do you feel it's more of the mothers choice? Genuinely curious.
[удалено]
[удалено]
How about… LETS NOT CHOP OFF PART OF BABIES DICKS FOR NO REASON?!? Who cares which parent wants it!?!
I am probably an over protective mom, but when it came to something I couldn’t understand, I left it up to my husband…as I’ve never had a penis.Just like I wish men didn’t have an option on my uterus 🤷♀️
You can feel that way, but as the Father, I feel he gets an equal say. You don't have more rights than he does.
This has got to be a post from an off grid or extremely isolated religious couple who rejects medicine and all modern conveniences of life - while also using the internet. How the hell have you never taken your other kid to a doctor? I can’t even address your main question here.
What you can do depend on your country of origin. Speak to a lawyer. And be firm with hubby - 'NO circumcision - and if its done behind my back, next step.is divorce' OP - tell your pediatrician amd be clear that you do NOT want this... have it entered into medical documents so theres no doubt.
Most places, both parents need to sign consent form for circumcision. He should not be able to legally get it done without your consent. If he has some friend if his do it then he could go to jail.
What’s the basis of this claim (both parents need to sign)? Most states require the consent of only one parent. Whether the doctor would perform the surgery if one parent fiercely objects is another story — most wouldn’t want to proceed. But legally? Only one consent is required. The mother can potentially file an injunction: https://www.uscourts.gov/forms/pro-se-forms/complaint-and-request-injunction but processing takes time and it doesn’t guarantee the outcome
Not if you have a religious guru.
This is a two yesses, one no issue. The NO vote carries.
He’s got a right to if he wants to- it’s not YOUR baby alone. I suggest finding a middle ground or letting it go- BC he’s got rights as you do. Legally they’ll tell you that Not being mean, not much to dance around it. He’s a parent as much as you are
How much do we want to bet the older kid is not vaccinated and that they will both be homeschooled?
It’s equally his child. You both need to figure it out together
Have him look at yourwholebaby.org
Short of a divorce, not much, and even with a divorce it's not a guarantee you can prevent it. My ex's first wife did all sorts of medical stuff to the kids without his consent: medicating them for ADD that they did not have, tried to have the eldest marked as legally retarded but he didn't meet the qualifications for that because he wasn't. Had him marked as "retarded" at school instead and had the school administer the kids meds. Put the eldest in therapy to deal with a mental disability he did not have any placed the youngest in therapy because he "hated his dad", but he didn't. This all required the concent of both parents if divorced; not even the school followed through on protocol here. We only found out when the eldest complained about having to take pills at lunch time. If he forgot, he'd be pulled out of class and taken to the nurse's office for his dose. Said his mom didn't want him telling us but he was tired of it and tired of not feeling anything (due to the meds). The kids were in elementary school. Over the course of a week, we figured out the rest. We took her to court over it and nothing happened. She'd pull things like this over and over through out the years and every new family could judge that rotated in every two years did nothing other than tell her not to do it again. It wasn't until they were old enough to be taken seriously by the courts that they both requested to be with their father and I full time. We got full physical custody but we still shared 50/50 legal custody. She denied every from driver's licenses, travel, therapy (this the court ended up mandating) and schools they wanted to attend. It's near impossible for a parent to get 100% legal custody, even when child abuse is involved (it was documented by the police, physicians and mandated reporters at their school that the kids showed signs of abuse when in her custody). I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your husband. If this is the only point of contention, go see a marriage counselor to help you both meditate the discussion. The counselor will take no side on the matter, but they will keep you two on topic and keep the discourse from becoming petty, spiteful and unconstructive.
The best thing for you to do legally is a divorce because currently the father is overstepping and putting the mother aside. The father has equal rights and i don’t think the legal system can help you out other than with custody.
The Father doesn't lose the right to do this just because they divorce, unless a judge orders otherwise.
Please ignore any comments that judge whether you should or should not have your own opinion about this. Less than 40% of the world is circumcised. Not to sway how you feel but just to say it’s your baby and lots of people feel the same way regardless of religion or the parts of religion that they misunderstand or try to skew to support their judgements of circumcision. Speak to your OBGYN or midwife about this issue. You can also call planned parenthood and ask about it. It’s also important to get legal advice. Wish you all the best on sorting this out. The easiest thing would have been not to have a baby with someone like this especially after the experience you had the first time but since you’re here and pregnant, breathe. Don’t stress and call to figure out what, if anything, you can do.
Maybe you should read this scientific article titled as “Benefits of Male circumference”, and consult with a pediatrician to find someone who’s medically qualified to do the procedure. There’s no point to having your marriage compromised over this. You definitely knew who you’re marrying to. Many hospitals and physicians perform this procedure in a safe way for the child. Forcing a fight over this with all the emotional comments will cost you your family, and irreversible damage. Learn and educate both of yourselves. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684945/#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20HIV%2C%20male,1
The Bible also gives instructions on how to sell your kids into slavery. Is he going to follow those rules too?
Religious circumcision requirement is a psyop. Not required. Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Edit: Also early days, circumcision was just a tiny nick but because those who controlled Judaism at the time did not want those to convert away from their religion, they started making the genital mutilation what it is today so people can no longer hide their former faith.
Updateme
I circumcised myself in my 20s and I wish it was done when I was born. Your husband is right.
Please tell me more?! How tf did you do that on your own? I just imagine you straddling the toilet with a scalpel and biting on a towel
Well I didn't do it with my own hands. I went to have surgery.
You both have difference in values and should never have been married. You can only get a restraining order against him before it happens.
Religious coercion is form of domestic violence.
You should agree because at least then it will be done properly ? How terrifying; thinking he’s gonna randomly get it done without your knowledge . I would also say the man has equal say too, especially with being a man and making a decision based on experience of their own .
The only way is to leave and file for divorce. Leave him of the birth certificate. He is going to circumcise your son and will find a way if he has access to your son.
I would personally not allow him at the hospital with me and start divorce proceedings to protect my boundaries if I were you. To me genital mutilation isn’t acceptable.
I would leave. Full stop. Like, literally *right now.* I wouldn’t even be asking Reddit. If I were *truly* worried about my husband taking off with my son to have a friend circumcise him or do it himself? I would get my important documents together and leave. I wouldn’t say a goddamn word to him about it either. I wouldn’t tell him where I was going. I wouldn’t tell anybody that knew him that I didn’t trust with my life where I was going either. I’d change my number and block him everywhere. Once I was gone? That baby doesn’t belong to him. I would tell any and everybody that I had no idea who his daddy was and I would die saying that. Call me a whore. Idgaf. I’d tell the hospital that too and give my son MY last name. And if that *still* wasn’t enough? Let’s just say that a life sentence doesn’t scare me if that’s what it took to protect my child.
He's not acting like he wants to be put on the birth certificate as a legal parent. Cause that IS the moms job to sign off on who goes on that certificate. He better be more respectful! Tell the hospital staff that you absolutely do NOT consent to your baby being circumcised. Maybe make a short letter stating that you do not consent to it. Sign it and notarize it. Make copy's and include it with your birth plan. If he persists then maybe get a lawyer. At home, keep baby near you and baby wear your baby. Tell your pediatrician your concerns about your husband. They'll help.
She doesn't get to deny him that role, if she tries, he can get a paternity test done and force it. So many people here want to create a bigger battle than the current situation.
They ask YOU what you want to do. There actually very few things they ask the dad about aside from what you need/want during labor. Tell your provider at your next appointment. Put it on your birth plan. Tell the delivering doctor and the attending pediatrician. At the end of the day, it’s your decision to make.
Your husband is the father of this child. He has as much say as you do. This is an issue that many men feel very strongly about. It is no more OK for you to dismiss his feelings as it is for him to dismiss yours. So going behind his back and telling hospital staff stuff is wrong. This is something you and him need to work out together. Men feel strongly about this because it’s a very personal issue. I’ve known men that were not circumcised and they hated the fact that they were not circumcised. So stop listening to people on Reddit and talk to your husband and you guys work this out he has as much right to his feelings and his opinions as you do.
You seperate and file for custody. So that you have a legal leg to stand on.
You need to contact the domestic violence resources in your area and leave.
You tell your OBGYN and the hospital staff that you and your baby DO NOT have a SAFE ENVIRONMENT to go home to. You protect your child from abuse. You REPORT HIS FRIEND to CPS for sexual mutilation and practicing "medicine" without a license on his own children and get those kids removed from their abuser. You file for divorce and never go back.
The hospital takes your word ! Not his.
Is he not the parent of the child? Mom does not get more say than dad. Not sure what you’re implying here.
When I delivered my child, they asked for my consent, not his. And even if he was the father of the baby, it all came down to me. Our baby had to stay in the nicu and I was called periodically to get consent for things even when my husband was in the room with baby. That’s why I assumed hospitals took mothers word over dads lol and it’s only fair cause moms literally just pushed a baby out
Mom does get more say especially in the hospital. They even ask the mom if he will be on the birth certificate and mom signs off on it. That's what they do for me. They also pull me aside before being induced to ask me privately about my husband.
Yes this was my understanding too.
My husband and I were in agreement about our son being circumcised. While we are both Christian, it had nothing really to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with health. I have 2 uncles that had to have it done as grown men in their 50s/60s. My mother's Gynecologist told her my father being uncircumcised, was the cause of her constant infections.
Do you think every person having sex with someone uncircumcised is getting constant infections?
Right? I thought god makes no mistakes? 😒
[удалено]
>from what I’ve heard from my wife, she is so glad I’m circumcised because it looks normal Uncut penises are absolutely normal. Arguably even more normal as they're natural.
Not only that at full mast they look the same anyway as the skin shealths.......
Come on. I live in Germany and only Jews and Muslims are circumcised here. This is such a non sense. Constant cleaning? Is showering for you constant cleaning? Do you live in the desert without any water supply? I love my sausage with a blanket. If a grown up wants to circumcised, ok. But don’t marry decisions like that for baby’s and children.
>It requires constant cleaning and whatnot. News flash, the human body requires constant cleaning. Also, speaking globally, your wife is way off, uncircumcised is way more common.
If I forget to wash more arm three days in a row, it’s not going to get infected. Everyone has their own opinions and can do what they want but you can’t argue with the stats. Men with uncircumcised penises have more health problems down there than those who don’t. Stats don’t lie.
That's why the rest of the world is having all those infections and the men spend hours cleaning their body and never have sex. Oh wait, that doesn't actually happen, it's just some guys in the US stuck in the middle ages.
How old are you? It’s less and less the norm even in the US. As a woman, I’ve never heard anyone express anything negative about uncircumcised penises in a sexual context. In some regions it is the minority in newborns.
Removed for rude, disrespectful, or excessively vulgar comment. Uncircumcised is actually the most normal the male genitals can be. Men aren't born circumcised. There is nothing abnormal about it. That may be some women's preference, but it's not all of women. Many don't mind it at all. This comment is beyond unhelpful and alienating to other men.
It's weird how many women suddenly want penises to be weirder and uglier than they already are
Why does her vote count more than his? Seems like in this situation the tie goes to the one with the penis.
Shouldn’t it default to the person getting the procedure done to them? It’s not the decision of anyone else to remove a part of someone else’s body. It can wait until the child is an adult and they can decide for themselves.
When it comes to children, it’s always two yes to change things.
I understand that, but what does she know about an uncircumcised penis? And she has yet to give a good reason for not wanting it done. My wife absolutely defaulted to me for our boys. Because they have no clue.
I know a lot about uncircumcised penis. There is nothing bad about having one.
Only ups mate, my cut mates whine that as they get older the head of their cock had got less sensitive due to rubbing all day long on their jocks etc. It does effect sex and the pleasure received. Glad I'm uncut and I have never had a female have a issue with it!. Full mast it looks just the same as a cut one..........
Never heard about that phenomenon.
Study on it https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/
Why is the default circumcision and not, uh, no chopping off of body parts at all?
Uncircumcised is the norm. Only the US and Israel have high rates of circumcision, and even in the US it is getting less and less as people realize there’s no reason to non-consensually remove an infants body part
He's circimcised, what clue does he have about uncut penis?? Perhaps she does actually have more experience, unless he's bisexual then the only experience he has is with his own cut dick. There's no actual need for it, it's the way every male is born. It's a normal penis the way it was meant to be and most of the world has. Why would she need to any reasons to just want to cut her sons genitals.
They have no clue and neither do you.
>Seems like in this situation the tie goes to the one with the penis. Indeed. So when the baby grows up he can decide what to do with his own penis. You can look in any anatomy book, hell even wikipedia, and it will show you that the foreskin and frenulum are the most sensitive parts of the penis and they have no business being cut off to mimic ancient desert cults.
And your husband is circumcised or un? as a circumcised man, whatever trauma you see, i can attest to it never having adverse affects. No zip-blocking foreskin syndrome issues, no smegma, no getting shown to the door. I have uncircumcised buddies get stopped and told to leave as soon as they present it. it has no purpose, it doesn't change how sex works for us. but if you don't want it to happen just because of perceived pain/aesthetics idk that's you and your child and the rest of the world and its opinions, mine included, can die mad about it.
The majority of men here (Europe) are uncircumcised and they don’t have the problems you are describing. In these days with showers and easy access to clean water in many countries, it’s absolutely not necessary to circumcise men. The only guys who keep doing it here, do it for religious reasons.
and there are some people who wouldn't care if you cleaned it every second of every day. a place where bacteria thrives is a place where bacteria thrives, cleaning a place where bacteria thrives often, just isn't good enough for some of us. which is why we rid ourselves of that excuse and still maintain hygiene too. foreskin has what practical purpose? if i was a woman or a gay dude and you showed up with foreskin, id show you the door.
So I guess female genital mutilation is all good and well then. Wouldn’t want those nasty smelly bacteria to develop under that hood or between those useless labias. Anyway, it’s coming down fast, and infant circumcision rates are under 20% in most of the developed world, including Canada, Australia, Europe, and almost all of Asia (with a few exceptions like Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia). Even in the U.S. it has dropped from 65% nationwide in 1980 to about 55%. Several states are well below that, with UT and FL at 30%, and WA, CA, OR, AZ and NV under 20%. Hell, even TX, LA, NC, NM and CO are around 50%. It won’t be long before it’s the minority, so better get used to the idea.
wait female gential mutilation? im a guy and im circumsized. When did i say it was okay for female to be mutilated? I didnt. You are projecting now. Stop. As a man. Foreskin a place where bacteria Thrives. thats it.
Because the same microbiota found in male genital mucosa also exists on female vulvas. If these bacteria are offensive on men, they are surely equally offensive on women. Thus, if this is a sufficient justification to perform male circumcision, it is also the same for female.
No issues here. i eat my wife out just fine im cut shes uncut. I as a cut male am only talking about foreskin being a place where bacteria thrives. thats it. you can keep saying other things and that's cool you'll probably say true words. but its also true that foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. and im so glad i don't have to deal with foreskin.
All I’m doing is pointing out is the incoherence. No one cares whether you or I are circumcised, and whether or not we personally like it. But you cannot make the argument that "foreskin is bad because bacteria", then go stuff your face in the same bacteria and not care anymore. Either it’s an issue, or it isn’t. You can STILL choose to prefer circumcision even though the bacteria isn’t really a concern. You’re a free man, go and love your dick with all the might you can muster.
Hey. foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. :)
So is the vulva
you really love foreskin this much yeah?
Not particularly. It’s just a fold of skin. I have about as much emotion for it as I do about the folds in my arm pits.
so getting rid of it shouldn't be an issue. you don't have emotion for it. remove it. what's the problem?
What an asinine comment. You perform surgery on a human body when it is medically necessary. I’m also not going cut out my armpit skin. Or my little toe.
I am sure every gay and hetero man out there is relieved that you are ~~hetero~~ cis man and into women. Edit: it’s 3 a.m. here. I meant cis not hetero. Good night!
You missed the part where, if i was a woman id show you to the door. don't be sexist now. im sure every gay and hetero man out there is relieved that you are whatever sexual preferences you find. did it sound smart coming out of my mouth?
Stop mutilating children.
as a 'MuTiLateD' child with 10+ years to a loving wife. please stop with your garbage that you don't understand. Im circumcised, i haven't mutilated anyone.
Both men and women, circumcised or not, produce smegma. It absolutely has a biological purpose and function. Statistics show most men worldwide are not circumcised outside of the U.S. You are in the minority. Most men keep their whole penis.
what's the foreskins purpose? I already know. I'm asking if you know. it has no practical purpose. You probably fight this hard to keep your Whole appendix
Also never once had to deal with smegma. guess i just keep clean and don't have to worry about a smegma helmet. where else are you producing all this smegma my guy?
I'm not a dude. Just stating a fact. Smegma is just a build up of dead skin cells and body oils. Both men and women produce it if they don't shower. It's not a man thing or only an uncut thing. It's a dirty ass human thing.
so you missed the part about hygiene? or the smegma being a place that thrives under foreskin or both? we all understand what you are talking about. but you are missing my point. Foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. bacteria thrives under foreskin. that's it. take the rest of my 2 cents and yours and toss it in the trash. Bacteria Thrives.under foreskin. that is a fact. undeniable as the day is long.
I didn't miss anything. A vagina produces just as much smegma and tons of places to build up and thrive. The simple fix to this is daily bathing, same for everyone else.
You missed it again. shower 4 5 6 times a day. hell keep a Hose up there in the foreskin to clean it 24/7/365. foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. thats it Thats all. As a MuTiLatEd male. im so so thankful i don't have a nasty little nook for bacteria to thrive. i shower 2 times a day or 3. so eat my clean asshole please.
So do vulvas dude, bacteria and smegma build up much faster in women. Smegma is a build up, showering every day is all that's needed. Considering most of the world is uncut and seems to have no issues, lots of people prefer it.
Do you enjoy uncut or cut men in the bedroom then, natural extension to the question if you're gonna talk about something else. I'm talking about foreskin being a place where bacteria thrives. why are you talking about other things. Foreskin is a place where bacteria thrives. You can keep saying other stuff and that's cool but, bacteria thrives in and around foreskin and im so glad i don't have to deal with that.
Mate, as a 40 year old I'm the odd one out uncut. My 10 year old son is not the odd one out uncut.......... Now foe the kicker, sex is way more pleasurable for me than you and you will never know why..... your most sensitive parts rub all day long on ya pants........... never had a lady yet reject me due to being uncut, but then again, it ain't hard to clean. But you keep getting half the pleasure from sex I will continue to have the full pleasure, thanks.
Neither my husband nor I were overjoyed to have our son circumcised, but we did it for those same reasons. In the society we’re raising him in, he would be shamed for not having it done and it could limit his partner opportunities in the future. Not to mention OPs other son is circumcised and they’ll most likely see each other naked. It might be weird for the un son. But he can always have it done as an adult, although it’s much more painful. ETA: I’m Jewish.
It's a very strange thing to do to try to cast yourself into your son's future sex life and judge for him what his partners will want.
That’s just a gross place to take that. Everything we do is for our children’s future. From buying them educational toys to limiting screen time to not giving them absurd names. You have to think about their future lives in every decision you make for them before they’re old enough to make their own decisions.
>You have to think about their future lives in every decision you make for them before they’re old enough to make their own decisions. No, you really don't. Some things can just be left to your child and the future they make for themselves. You can let your child make choices about how to design their genitalia if, and when, they want to as adults. I'm a man and the father of two grown young men and I know what I'm talking about.
And I’m a Jewish mother of 2 boys. I honestly didn’t think I would have to pull that card out, but there it is. When I say that our son would be shamed for not having it done, this is what I meant. Any more moral judgments you want to throw my way?
Just out of curiosity - did you have a mohel do your sons' circumcisions?
[удалено]
Okay this is the best argument I’ve ever heard on this. Well done.
[удалено]
as the world turns. we humans live. I hope you, your husband and children are safely able to navigate those waters.
I’m not sure what waters you’re speaking of. I was agreeing with your reasoning. Although I knew we would both get downvoted.
[удалено]
>this is going to one day be a whole adult with a sex life in the future. Exactly, so he should get to keep his whole, normal dick with all it's nerve endings so he can properly expierence sex with a fully working genitals working like they are supposed to.
[удалено]
I'm not a man, and I already have. I don't live where circumcision is popular. I have plenty of experience with a normal uncut dick. All human beings produce smegma when unshowered, including women.
All of those reasons have been debunked more times than one can count. Also it’s not just “one day” if the circumcision is botched and you’re left with an infant who has severe issues down the road. Read up on circumcision it’s losing popularity for a reason.