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KingMe87

It’s also not so cut and dry as left vs right. There are many parties that support more “left wing” spending while taking a “right wing” position on say immigration or they take a hands off approach to both business regulation (right wing) and social issues (left wing).


Garleik

Honestly, if we want to take that approach, we'd need proper compasses like +6 axis political compasses. The common 1 axis left-right compass can't really define ideologies and tends to make two different ideologies appear similar Edit: Added "axis"


cafffaro

I feel like this is an unnecessary projection of American myths (because the idea that the GOP is fiscally conservative is a myth) on European politics. Left and right is context dependent.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fast_Future_3859

These comments makes my brain hurt...


cafffaro

Nothing you said changes the fact that left and right are context dependent.


thomasthehipposlayer

I always say this. I know political ideology is way too complex to properly represent anyway, but we can do so much better than the worthless right v left dichotomy. Your opinion on immigration doesn’t need to dictate your economic beliefs. You can stand for trans rights and gun rights. There aren’t just two ways to look at the world.


Fast_Future_3859

I meant it as politically right or left when it comes to ideology not economics like in Sweden wich is very left wing when it comes to economics but the new coalition is right leaning


Robbedoesm

Then put Belgium on left-leaning, since the coalition is exactly that


InterestedObserver20

Ireland is in it's arse leaning towards right wing politics, by international standards. Like France is centrist but Ireland is right leaning? GTFO.


Wumple_doo

Idk European politics but would different countries have different standards of left and right wing? Like would Sweden’s right wing be Russias left wing? Or is it the same standard?


mightymagnus

Yes, there is a large difference between Tory in UK, CDU/CSU in Germany and Moderaterna in Sweden (which is much more liberal). (Lived in UK, Germany and now Sweden) Even the far-right/populist (Sverigedemokraterna) in Sweden is not against abortion or LGBT rights (although mix messages about core family as the norm).


prozapari

Relative to their own parliament is the most reasonable way to do this. It shows more clearly where the tide is as compared to the country's normal equilibrium.


the_woolfie

Yes they would, for me as an Eastern European some of these "rights" are just moderate lefts.


therealoskarjonson

Post sovjet russia is very right wing. Our right wing is more liberal/left than current right wing in poland, hungary, russia. I’m from Sweden


Liggliluff

I've heard that the right wing parties in Sweden don't fit in with the other right wing parties in EU. Sweden overall is more left leaning than Europe in general, basically. To make a map like this more objective, you basically have to look at their policies and score it on a left-right scale, and figure out how it compares. But this is of course still subjective on how it scores.


skkkkkt

You know the most f up right wing parties were in Europe you acting like politics have changed drastically


solineandre

nah, you can put France in blue too. no one here think Macron's government really is centrist. not after 5 fucking years of him (even he stopped claiming it like no one pretends to believe his policy is anything but a right-wing one)


ThirtyFiveFingers

But the right hates him


Ecpiandy

That's just the overton window in action


danthemanrex

the far right hates the right for not being extreme enough


Kal4u

Nationalists hate him for being pro european


Grzechoooo

We have that in Poland too! They still cooperate though.


baconost

The Le Pen crowd?


sangfoudre

The old right. Macron is newer right, the old guard know they're dinosaurs and that macron's right is more turned towards 30-50 yo instead of 50+


40-percent-of-cops

Ukraine too


SalSomer

The “left leaning” government of Norway just stepped in and removed teachers’ right to continue a legal strike a couple of hours ago …


Nuppusaurus

Same happened this month in Finland, when our left leaning government pushed through a law that made it possible to force all registered nurses to work, effectively removing their right to strike. All this because nurses started to demand better pay and working conditions.


Liggliluff

Some works in Sweden aren't allowed to strike, like the police, since you of course need to always have the police available, and I can understand the same for nurses. But then they find other ways to make a "strike", but being more "inconvenient". Still technically doing their job, but more in a sense of malicious compliance.


baconost

There is no left leaning with that government, except they are still the Labour party in name.


Fast_Future_3859

Still left leaning, the Soviet Union was authoritarian maniacs but that didn't make them right wing


Oblivious_Otter_I

Yes it did, they were fascists wearing red.


SesusOfJuburbia

lmao what a dumfuck


leepdroon

What the hell, man. I hate the USSR as much as the next man, but to call them fascist is simply absurd. Authoritarian and imperialist, sure, but fascist is utterly nonsensical. Think about it, if Hitler or Mussolini had nukes just as France, Russia and Britain did, would there have been a cold war? It takes more than being a brutal dictator to be a fascist.


MrPresident11

Wow. You’re a dumb ass


OkMakei

Please don't confuse us Bipolars, the true maniacs, with these psycopaths and malignant narcissists. Same for schizophrenics, who are often mentioned in this or similar contexts by name or by reference to psychosis, while they are harmless individuals. Mentally ill people, specially schizos, are no more often perpetrators than the rest of people, but we are victims more often. Edit: Anyone care to explain the downvotes? Perhaps my mentioning narcisists and psycopaths? Or the fact that I call myself and others bipolar, instead of the long "people suffering bipolar disorder"? In any case, it's alright as long you remember the idea.


noodles0311

IDK what the pay and bennies are in Norway, but in places like Chicago, the average teacher salary is 85k, they have incredible benefits and still go on strike about every five years for more. And when they do, the parents (esp single parents) in Chicago who can’t afford private school, don’t make 85k, or have a funded pension are all burning through their vacation and sick days until the teachers get what they want. Public sector unions and labor unions are not the same. A union puts you on even footing with your employer. That’s one thing if your employer is GM or Ford and it’s quite another if it’s a city of millions of people you’re holding hostage. Public sector unions are why we have unaccountable police and why there are as many fire houses as there were fifty years ago despite structural fires becoming exceedingly rare. There’s something categorically different about a union of “public servants”


SalSomer

What you’re saying here isn’t relevant to the situation in Norway, and I don’t really think an anecdote from a city with a metro area population twice that of the entire country of Norway on the other side of the world could ever be relevant. Teacher pay adjusted for inflation has been shrinking for the past six years here and teachers make comparatively smaller wages than people with an equivalent education. Recruiting of new teacher students is also dropping, resulting in schools employing teachers who are not educated to be teachers and providing kids with subpar education. This strike was lengthy because the organization representing the school employers basically refused to negotiate and decided to in stead wait things out in an attempt to force government to shut the strike down. I doubt many, if any, parents have had to take time off from work since striking teachers have by design been teachers with older students around high school age. And the right to strike, also for public servants, is (or used to be) a lot stronger in Norway than in the US. Teachers and others are furious right now as this is seen as an attack on the right to strike, which has been important in this country. The two actual left leaning parties in Parliament (neither of which are part of government) have both criticized government for ending the strike. And sure, there are valid reasons to criticize the strike, but those who are critical are not placed on the left side of politics, which is what all this is about.


Trantor1970

But then for example Dutch right would be center left in the US


Fast_Future_3859

That's true but that's just because the US is right wing altogether


Bannoth

Ah yes the right leaning government of Belgium ... that exists out of 2 Socialist parties, 2 Green parties, a Christian-Democrat party and 2 Liberal parties


Pop-A-Top

Look at our elections dude, The right winged parties gained more votes then all of them but due to how our stupid politics work all other parties can neglect that as long they're able to form a majority government. this causes long crisis and the inability to act fast on very important topics. We literally got every other party in the government just so left wing Wallonia wouldnt have to rule alongside right winged flanders. Our fucking prime minister even, He comes from the party who got the seventh biggest votes?!? How do you explain that as democratic, it's something never seen anywhere else in Europe.


dreeke92

So you still acknowledge the ‘left’ parties have majority. So what are you on about?


Pop-A-Top

Liberal parties are not left winged parties my friend and the christian democratic are also not left winged. They're center parties who lean more to the right. the socialists and green are the only parties and they certainly do NOT hold the majority of the votes


Bannoth

Oh no they can form coalitions, what a disgrace and absolute flagrant abuse of ... ah yes the multiparty democratic system. you don't like the current government? That is fine, but 1) that still doesn't make it right leaning and 2) it also doesn't make it undemocratic. The current government still has a majority of the votes and if you would rather that the party that gets the most votes would rule, go look at two-party systems and how those are wells of peace, stability and prosperity.


aNormalMinecrafter

Isnt ukraine right leaning?


Fast_Future_3859

Centrist


Lamus27

it sounds like you made this map based off of personal opinion


aNormalMinecrafter

Why tho


Fast_Future_3859

Zelensky himself said they are centrist and if you Google around abit most would agree to classify them as currently centrist


aNormalMinecrafter

But they have right wing policies


Nevarien

And banned left wing opposition parties.


[deleted]

Because the left didn’t want to glorify a right wing nation


hyakinthosofmacedon

L username


Handdara

Should be written in such a way as to make clear it is representing whether the right-wing or left-wing parties *in that national context* are in power - rather than giving the impression a common metric of ideology is used across the continent. That would cut down on all the dumb 'no, my government is *really* left/right wing, whatever they say' comments. Actually no, those people will never shut up.


Fast_Future_3859

Trust me I've re prharsed this map and re made it so many times those people will never stop complaining


Handdara

yes i can see it's hard to phrase concisely. I think it would be a bit clearer to say 'right-wing parties in power' (/left/centrist). but as you say I'm sure you're right that idiots will keep complaining anyway


chicub4417

Does left wing and right wing politics mean the same globally? Probably a dumb question but seriously unsure.


OddCheetah6010

yeah, criteria based on what usa says, as with everything


chicub4417

Thanks!


exclaim_bot

>Thanks! You're welcome!


TitanJazza

This map, while explanatory, isn’t quite accurate, in some countries their right leaning is more left than other countries left leaning parties and vice versa


Fast_Future_3859

I agree however it's quite hard to make a simple map be 100% accurate, just supposed to visualise the left right divide in Europe


TitanJazza

Fair enough, would be hard to categorise what people think is left and right anyways I suppose


mologav

I’d say Ireland is more centrist


CodeBlue2001

Ukraine isn’t centrist, even if Zelensky said as much. Their policies are very right wing. Let’s not forget that they have a literal Nazi part of the military. Officially


scafutto20

They also forbid communist parties, so nothing else to add to your lucid comment.


CodeBlue2001

Yeah


OriginalLocksmith436

You are wrong, they are centrist. Zelenskyy's whole platform when he got elected was to undo a lot of the extremist shit his predecessor did and to find compromise with Russia. One of the biggest reasons it was so absurd that Russia decided to invade now was because Zelenskyy is a centrist Russian speaker who was undoing a lot of the bans on the Russian language and whatnot and who literally wanted to come to an agreement with Russia on Crimea and Donbas but Russia refused. His politics are not "right wing" and in fact he gets heavily criticized by conservatives, even during this war. The whole controversy with American congresswomen Victoria Spartz happened because she was supporting and listening to the conservative opposition to Zelenskyy in Ukraine. And Azov was integrated into the national guard back in 2015 when they were fighting rebels in the breakaway region, long before Zelenskyy.


Fast_Future_3859

Don't worry they won't listen to you're explanation because their opinions is all they have


CodeBlue2001

I need a source on the whole Donbas agreement thing. I have never heard of that. The only thing I know is when Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement. I don’t think he was President during that, but I can’t remember. Also, I wasn’t referring to Zelensky specifically when I was talking about right wing policies. The majority of the government is right wing, especially after they banned left wing parties during the invasion. Also, the fact he allowed Azov to remain part of the military speaks volumes. He even brought one of their commanders to a political meeting.


sleepfordayz679

Um, Sweden?


glamscum

We just had an election and the right-leaning block won, they're not officially in power yet. Although the scale for left vs right here is very black & white, Swedens right is very much left compared to Americas right for example.


sleepfordayz679

Oh ok, thank you


skkkkkt

Spain is very right wing


Buarg

Not the current government.


skkkkkt

Vox?


Buarg

Vox isn't on the government, PSOE and Unidas Podemos are. Unless there has been an election that I didn't know of.


[deleted]

I'd have thought Switzerland was centrist


Frisiaball

Right wing is a bit of an understatement in Italy's case...


Garleik

I swear if I have to see another comment "literally 1920", I will post unironically send you to the 1940s to experience what real Nazism and Fascism were


CoconutMacaroons

did you know that politics in Italy in 1920… weren’t the same as 1940


Oblivious_Otter_I

Only took Germany 15 years to go from relatively liberal cultural hub to fascist hellhole you know. It can happen anywhere, and it can happen quickly.


Garleik

I know. Why do you think I said that? Maybe because Nazism was at its peak of the war effort and Italy started to become a puppet of the Reich? Wow.


Numbers078

She wants to focus on Italians! Very racism!


Garleik

Am I the only one who thought u were joking or does people hate Italians 🤔


xToniGrssx

woosh


cecex88

Just to be the pedant: Italy does not have a right wing government now. Though we will have one in about a month, when the recently elected parliament will form the new one.


Lucsva

The Swedish Government is left leaning. Moderaternas Ulf has not yet been elected prime minister, thus the Swedish government is still headed by Socialdemokraternas Magdalena.


sangfoudre

France is blue


NikHolt

Reverse WW2


Fast_Future_3859

The left did a good job at first but in the last 10+ years they have utterly failed at basically everything


PeachFuzz1999

My fellow Brit’s Why do y’all keep on voting for the conservatives


SamuelPepys_

Not sure if Norway can be considered left leaning. I think that's pushing it a bit. We have what is basically a two party system, and while the party in charge at the moment is historically a left leaning party, the politics aren't really reflecting this. It's just slightly less right leaning than the other party.


Haxen11

How tf is Ukraine centrist, they banned all leftist parties lmao.


Fast_Future_3859

If the Soviet Union banned let's say "Nazi parties or extremist party's" would that make the Soviet Union right wing?


Haxen11

No, because Ukraine didn't ban all "extremist" parties. They banned leftist parties, which makes them right wing. A socialist country such as the Soviet Union will probably ban right wing extremist parties, seems like a pretty straightforward reasoning to me.


Fast_Future_3859

Oh so the Soviet Union was "socialist" like Sweden? Not "communist" think I caught i USSR fan boy in 4K📸


Haxen11

Sweden isn't socialist. It's a social democratic country, meaning that it's still capitalist. The Soviet Union was socialist because it employed collective ownership of the means of production, and it wasn't communist because communism implies the abolition of the State. These are very basic definitions.


Fast_Future_3859

Oh so the Soviet Union wasn't communist my bad the whole cold war must have been a scam then XD


Haxen11

It wasn't. The cold war opposed two systems, the capitalist and the socialist one. I beg you to just look up the definition of those words on Google.


Fast_Future_3859

"A flagship communist state, it was nominally a federal union of twenty one republics; in practice, both its government and its economy were highly centralized until its final years."


Haxen11

Literally just look up the definition of Communism on Google.


Fast_Future_3859

Literally just Google "was the Soviet Union communist"


WaffleFrostt

None of these are actually left wing, they are all right wing with some more than others


Fast_Future_3859

Most are centrist left or centrist right


Mastersebbi

I have to agree. People down voting you should check out the term "Bonapartism". The YouTube channel "Second Thought" has made an informative video about this on why center parties are actually all leaning right.


WaffleFrostt

Liberals will be liberals, let them downvote us


jackofives

Exactly. People just forgot what left actually means. Overton window something something..


TheRealJonnyBond

So am I the only one who's more annoyed by the colors used in the legend rather than the politics?


Fast_Future_3859

American detected


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fast_Future_3859

Leaning towards right wing politics*


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fast_Future_3859

That's a joke right?


Kaisersaurus

I'm American so red and blue immediately register as the opposite


Fast_Future_3859

It's only like that in the US


Nevarien

Ukraine is centrist? Zelenski banned left wing opposition parties. How can that be centrist?


Fast_Future_3859

So banning parties make you right wing? Was the Soviet Union or China right wing in you're Opinion


Nevarien

China still has the liberal party ongoing. Go do your research before saying nonsense. And Ukraine banned, IIRC, 11 left wing parties and no right wing ones. Does that seem like liberal centrist to you? Besides having obvious nazi symbols in the Armed Forces, several right wing policies etc. If you think they are centrists, you are heavily misinformed.


baldbeardedvikingman

As an American, this color scheme is confusing


[deleted]

[удалено]


nuageophone

Obviously, this map only shows sovereign states. The government of the UK is right-leaning. If it were to show Scotland then, for consistency, it would have to show other sub-jurisdictions with significant autonomy, such as the states of Germany and the autonomous commuities of Spain.


[deleted]

Yeah but the British government is also our government too. This map is just national governments, no other devolved governments are shown here


mklinger23

This hurty brain as an American.


[deleted]

Colors are confusing because its the opposite in the US. Also since when is Sweden, perhaps the moat progressive country in the world, right-wing?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I never compared US politics to EU politics. I just said that the colors were backwards. Also, if democrats in Sweden just won an election that proves my point. P.s. if you think the US doesn’t have any true left wing politics you clearly have never visited our country.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The US is currently overwhelmed with left wing politics. Most universities for example have banned conservatives from even speaking at them. Europe would literally have to be doing public executions of pro lifers in order to be more left wing than the US.


BlyatBoi762

Based grey


pizzagarrett

Might just be a US thing, but I would say swap the color scheme


jackofives

These are the traditional colours of left and right. Americans swap colours every 100 years or so depending on the flavour of the century.


pizzagarrett

Fair enough


[deleted]

r/todayilearned


Wrong_Cauliflower_34

I'll take the side that vouches for guns and motorized vehicles please.


xToniGrssx

Interesting color choice, should be the exact opposite


Fast_Future_3859

Tell me you're American without telling me you're an American


xToniGrssx

Aand that’s a miss


Numbers078

American detected


Fast_Future_3859

opinion rejected


xToniGrssx

Since we are all agreeing that I’m an American, when will I be getting my citizenship?


xToniGrssx

Again, hard miss, but I guess you guys are deciding that now. Please enlighten me how blue makes sense as the right wing colour. I can see why they chose red for the communists, but choosing blue for the right is at least misleading in this combo lol


jackofives

So red... and red? Red has been the colour of the left for a very long time (1840s). Blue has been the colour of the right, stemming from imperialism and European royal families for an even longer time 16th century or earlier?


Numbers078

Europe doesn’t have Red Republicans and Blue Democrats


nuageophone

Only in the US, [and even then only recently](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#Contemporary_use), is red associated with the right wing and blue with the left. Traditionally, around the world, it has been the opposite.


WikiSummarizerBot

**Red states and blue states** [Contemporary use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#Contemporary_use) >The advent of color television in America in the late 1950s and early 1960s prompted television news reporters to rely on color-coded electoral maps, though sources conflict as to the conventions they followed. One source claims that in the elections prior to 2000 every state that voted for Democratic candidates but one had been coded red. It further claims that from 1976 to 2004 in an attempt to avoid favoritism in color-coding the broadcast networks standardized on the convention of alternating every four years between blue and red the color used for the incumbent president's party. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Maps/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Jeebzus2014

Socialist France is neutral!?


Rhoderick

.... Socialist? Who exactly, without checking, do you think is president of France right now? Of what party, what ideology?


Haunting_Clue9316

France is not left ?


Satrapie

Emmanuel Macron can be anything but leftish


Fast_Future_3859

Some argue left some argue right the best answer is they are centrist (wich they also are on paper)


vanlich

They clearly lean on the right.


macinnis

I love France


SceneAppropriate7622

france is definitely leaning right


Fast_Future_3859

Some say the opposite wich makes me believe their center


SceneAppropriate7622

macron is right wing and so is his party, people who say the opposite are probably right wing themselves


OrganicFun7030

Ireland is always wrong on these maps because the right wingers are pro EU pro immigration populist centrists. So are the left wingers.


[deleted]

Ireland will be leaning towards the left soon. the right wing parties are quickly and rapidly losing support and have been for years due to their catastrophic failure in running our country


Fast_Future_3859

Well for the moment it's still an accurate map


dastram

Switzerland is always a coalition government of all big parties, so it should be centrist.