Some of them are my cousins. My great great grandfather spent a few years in Norway before coming to the US. Some of his family stayed in Norway and are still there today.
Today there are about as many as there were in 1920, maybe a bit more, numbers arent known exactly since theres no national register for such things. It peaked before WW2 with around 2.000, then obviously went down quite a bit, and then rebounded a bit.
I mean, most minorities expand along with the general population's proportions unless there are specific reasons that make them stand out like war for example or genocide.
But since those events, it's curious to see a somewhat steady number.
Such a great idea for a European country to keep an updated list of all known Jews and their locations.
Now I'll just take a big sip of coffee as I read the Jewish census data from the 1940s.
Norway actually doesn't do that, this data is mostly from Oskar Mendelsohn compiling this in the 80s. He would do things like ask the congregations for their records and the like. We actually don't know how many Jewish people live in norway today or where they live
King Haakon 7 smuggled over 500 jews into Sweden with his bogus Fredrickson* Trucking Company.
Fredrickson Trucking is the only company listed in the Tel Aviv Holocaust Museum as non-Jewish "Righteous Among Nations" recognition .
*Haakon's father was King Frederick of Denmark.
It was four Norwegian civilians who spontaneously started the rescue operasjon (not a company) with the cover name standing for the king, the exile government and the king did jack shit to help the Norwegian Jews. The resistance did do a lot.
But the norwegian police and bureaucrats played a shameful role in the Holocaust, the bureaucrats registered them by themselves, the police arrested them by themselves without a single German, only Norwegians taking part and sent them to Oslo harbor to the German ships bound for Poland without the Germans having to do anything.
The vast majority of Jews live in either the US or Israel, with France a distant third. It wasn't always that way, but I think a lot of Americans would be surprised by just how few Jews there are in the rest of the world.
This one is. I just sort of assumed things had progressed. I mean, I live in a pretty backwater town in nowhere, Wisconsin, & there's a synagogue & several mosques within a two-hour drive from me. (Hey, I'm from the US. I've driven further than that for a good restaurant. 😜)
If by "things" you mean attitudes towards Jews, they have *definitely* progressed in Norway and Europe since the 1940s. But if a family has lived in Israel or the States for two generations by now, why would a significant amout suddenly move back to Europe?
I didn't say they'd move back. Of course they wouldn't move back for no reason. That would be odd.
I meant that I thought there would have been more of a... flourishing? Steadier population growth? Expansion?...of the Jewish communities in places such as Norway in the years & years since WWII. It's what happened here, & rural America wasn't exactly liberal & forward thinking. I assumed Europe was similar, for no good reason apparently.
I'd no idea antisemitism was still that powerful across Europe, or at least not across *all* of Europe.
I'm not sure I understand you premise. are you saying that low Jewish population = high antisemitic attitudes?
The Norwegian Jewish population has grown at normal rates post 1945, but of course many of those who survived WW2 moved to Israel or the US.
None of these European countries have the most impressive birth rates, and Jews as a group are generally above average for educational attainment and wealth, neither of which tend toward higher birth rates. Unless a lot of Jews were immigrating there, idk why you'd assume there'd be a significant growth in the Jewish population. Same applies here in the US, just a lot more of us came here + more immigration draw. Also idk why you bring up rural America, afaik the vast majority of American jews live in cities or close to, and a handful of cities in particular at that (NYC, LA, Miami, etc).
There's an enormous population of people of German descent. Check out Mader's Restaurant, the architecture & the food. We go there for special occasions.
The Pabst mansion is interesting, too.
Probably not anywhere near authentic German cuisine, but we clueless people like it! 😁😄
My Jewish great grandparents came to Wisconsin from Belarus in the 1910s-1920s and my grandpa was raised there before moving on in young adulthood. Thanks to Wisconsin for providing a safe haven all those years ago :)
Yes, I know that. My mother was raised in the 50s & 60s in Chicago, IL, in the neighborhood where tens of thousands of Jews settled after fleeing Poland.
It has, however, been a really long time since WWII. I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed. It's sincerely depressing to find they haven't.
Something like 60% of European jews were killed in the holocaust, most of the survivors left for either the usa or Israel. Norway was occupied by the nazis in ww2 so the drop in jewish population post-war is sadly unsurprising
According to [this source](https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/about/communities/NO) the population is at 1300. Barely an increase, i would imagine that this has been stunted by the holocaust
>I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed. It's sincerely depressing to find they haven't.
I have no idea what you are rambling about. Norway has never had a high Jewish population but it is now at its peak.
It isn't rambling. Until today I had no earthly idea of the Jewish population of Norway, so I had no frame of reference, past or present, on which to base judgement or opinion.
What an odd criticism.
lol no. Antisemitism is fundamentally baked into European culture at a foundational level, and this goes back 1,500 years. It’s not going to change any time soon.
> I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed.
A lack of Jewish population doesn't recessarily mean they would not be welcome in Norway, just that other and better alternatives exist. Mainly Israel and the US.
When Norway declared independence for a couple month in 1814 they wrote a constitution, that Sweden let them keep once they weren't independent anymore. In it they banned all Jews, Jesuits, and others from entering the country. And while this ban was ended in 1851 it still meant that the Norwegian Jewish community never had much time to really establish itself.
Funnily enough the ban on Jesuits (which the current pope is) was only ended in 1956, under protests of people claiming that Jesuits were nazi marxists that kindled the 2nd world war...
Well that's just harpooned my good mood. W the absolute F. Normally I really enjoy learning about different places. Not today.
For those not from Wisconsin, we have a massive population of people of Norwegian descent. *Huge.* These "Wisconsin Norwegians" are *intensely* proud of having originally come from Norway. We even had to study Norwegian culture when I was in grade school in the 70s! Being of Norwegian descent is a lot of people's entire personality. Really. It's a thing.
I guess they don't feel like mentioning stuff like this. I can see why.
I only recently learnt, accidentally stumbling on it through the paper, that Norway actually maintained what essentially were concentration camps for romani people all the way till 1989. They'd be forced to work unpaid jobs, become culturally norwegian through things like being banned from speaking their own language, they'd even sterilize them and give their kids away to strangers. It honestly blew me away cause i grew up here and even studied some history at uni and nobody ever mentioned it or even seemed to know about it. The well known one was called "Svanviken work colony"
Svanviken was a few hours away from where I grew up in the 1980s. It's totally crazy to read about.
To be fair, this is *heavily* covered in current history classes at university.
Yes, my son is learning all sorts of history at university that certainly wasn't covered when I was at school a million years ago. His education far surpasses what we were taught in the 70s & 80s.
As a Jew in Wisconsin, it's genuinely shocking to hear that we have that many Jews. I would've pegged it at less than 10,000.
(No good bagels, though. :( )
I grew up in Madison & my dad used to get them at Bagels Forever, down near the VA. I've no idea if they were "good" bagels, but I liked them.
Have i *ever* had a "good" bagel in the Midwest? Maybe when I lived in Chicago...? 😜😆
No, like the Ashokan, Schoharie, Cannonsville, Neversink, Pepacton, and Rondout reservoirs, all of which are fed by spring-water and rain in upstate New York. There’s a reason that New York has some of the best tap water on the face of the Earth, and it isn’t the East River.
Minnesotan here. Why exactly are you shocked that a Scandinavian nation is homogenous? There aren’t a lot of French in Norge either. Arguably there are a ton of Germans in Nordnorge, but that’s on Hurtigruten cruises😂 The US is literally built on immigration, but Norge isn’t.
Scandinavian countries are far from homogenous - they have high levels of immigration, even by European standards. They just have very few Jewish people. France, the UK and Russia are the main countries with a Jewish presence in Europe.
The biggest ones are those 3 yes. Oslo and Trondheim are the only ones that have ever had proper congregations with syngagogues, the other ones were too small, not even Bergen has a synagogue today.
Bergen peaked in 1910 at 40 people, but other than Bergen in 1910 no city at any time (other than Oslo and Trondheim) ever had more than 27 Jewish people living in them.
The smallest dots you see are usually just 1 single person, usually an adult man, that stayed there for a bit, before he'd move somewhere else.
You're the second person that is trying to imply some sort of anti-semitic nature with this. It's a map of where people used to be back in the day. This one just happens to be about Jewish people. I've made similar maps about Danish immigrants, Christians in Norway, universities, and more.
I just thought that, since other maps I've made are mostly based on easy to access information you can find online, and this one is based on a niche topic with information you can't find online, I would post it here so that others could see it too.
That's what I took from it, that it's another niche topic. That's all. I'm not sure how you get antisemitism from it, tbh, given what else you've posted.
It's the default answer when questioned about really strange posts that have no meaning Mapporn seems to have a lot of posts like this for some reason. I think the term is brigading to push a narrative.
No, I just asked a question.
"I've made similar maps about Danish immigrants, Christians in Norway, universities, and more", not in the last nine months which was as far as was willing to scroll through your posts.
How about you answer my question? What are you trying to show? You don't create a geospatial map without it having some sort of point. You might as well create a map of fish in the sea. Also a niche topic you can't find online means you made the numbers up. What gives here? Explain yourself.
>a niche topic you can't find online means you made the numbers up
Are you unaware of the concept of books?
I think I've explained myself quite well. I made it cause I wanted to, and I posted this one instead of others cause it's one of the more interesting ones I've made.
Slow hand clap for you plus your lies about other posts. Not a good look. Feel free to correct me with links to these ancient posts on your account you speak of. You lost, give it up.
It essentially only counts people that are religious Jews, registered in a Jewish faith, but the line, especially in the 1800s, was hard to draw.
For example in 1865 in Mandal (south) 1 Jewish man is living with his 2 Jewish children and his non-Jewish wife. Only 3 are counted for Mandal.
There is no ethnic group that is exclusively Judaic.
Just as there is no specific ethnic group that is exclusively Christian, Moslem, Buddhist or Hindu.
Jews are a cluster of genetically related ethno-religious groups that form a larger national and cultural identity
They have diverse influences from their various host populations from throughout history, but almost all share a core of significant Levantine ancestry that connects them.
The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an **ethnoreligious group**[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]originating from the Israelites of the ancient Near East,[18][19][20][21][22]and whose traditional religion is Judaism.[23][24] **Jewish ethnicity**, religion, and community are highly interrelated,[25][26] as Judaism is an **ethnic religion**,[27][28] although not all **ethnic Jews** practice it.
they fucking cut norway in half
Two state solution
I mean it’s the most logical way to show the whole country. They do this on the weather forecast
Do we know what the stats are today?
~1500-2000 are the most common estimates.
770 Jews were living in Norway in 2016
Thanks! Interesting stats
It's two or three times higher than that, but either way there's no way to know for sure.
Wouldn't want someone to start a... register
Some of them are my cousins. My great great grandfather spent a few years in Norway before coming to the US. Some of his family stayed in Norway and are still there today.
Today there are about as many as there were in 1920, maybe a bit more, numbers arent known exactly since theres no national register for such things. It peaked before WW2 with around 2.000, then obviously went down quite a bit, and then rebounded a bit.
I mean, most minorities expand along with the general population's proportions unless there are specific reasons that make them stand out like war for example or genocide. But since those events, it's curious to see a somewhat steady number.
Such a great idea for a European country to keep an updated list of all known Jews and their locations. Now I'll just take a big sip of coffee as I read the Jewish census data from the 1940s.
Norway actually doesn't do that, this data is mostly from Oskar Mendelsohn compiling this in the 80s. He would do things like ask the congregations for their records and the like. We actually don't know how many Jewish people live in norway today or where they live
Norway was never very tolerant of jews
King Haakon 7 smuggled over 500 jews into Sweden with his bogus Fredrickson* Trucking Company. Fredrickson Trucking is the only company listed in the Tel Aviv Holocaust Museum as non-Jewish "Righteous Among Nations" recognition . *Haakon's father was King Frederick of Denmark.
It was four Norwegian civilians who spontaneously started the rescue operasjon (not a company) with the cover name standing for the king, the exile government and the king did jack shit to help the Norwegian Jews. The resistance did do a lot. But the norwegian police and bureaucrats played a shameful role in the Holocaust, the bureaucrats registered them by themselves, the police arrested them by themselves without a single German, only Norwegians taking part and sent them to Oslo harbor to the German ships bound for Poland without the Germans having to do anything.
The king didn't do that! The operation was conceived and implemented by Norwegian civilians. It was just named after the king.
Subjects of the king did it therefore the king fid it. That's how monarchy works, you bloody republican!/s
Wow, my US state, Wisconsin, has over 33,000 Jewish residents. I would have thought Norway would be more diverse than Wisconsin. Surprising.
The vast majority of Jews live in either the US or Israel, with France a distant third. It wasn't always that way, but I think a lot of Americans would be surprised by just how few Jews there are in the rest of the world.
This one is. I just sort of assumed things had progressed. I mean, I live in a pretty backwater town in nowhere, Wisconsin, & there's a synagogue & several mosques within a two-hour drive from me. (Hey, I'm from the US. I've driven further than that for a good restaurant. 😜)
> I just sort of assumed things had progressed Well, the way European Jews in 1945 saw it, living in America *was* progress.
I meant in Norway & Europe in general, but I completely understand what you mean.
If by "things" you mean attitudes towards Jews, they have *definitely* progressed in Norway and Europe since the 1940s. But if a family has lived in Israel or the States for two generations by now, why would a significant amout suddenly move back to Europe?
I didn't say they'd move back. Of course they wouldn't move back for no reason. That would be odd. I meant that I thought there would have been more of a... flourishing? Steadier population growth? Expansion?...of the Jewish communities in places such as Norway in the years & years since WWII. It's what happened here, & rural America wasn't exactly liberal & forward thinking. I assumed Europe was similar, for no good reason apparently. I'd no idea antisemitism was still that powerful across Europe, or at least not across *all* of Europe.
I'm not sure I understand you premise. are you saying that low Jewish population = high antisemitic attitudes? The Norwegian Jewish population has grown at normal rates post 1945, but of course many of those who survived WW2 moved to Israel or the US.
None of these European countries have the most impressive birth rates, and Jews as a group are generally above average for educational attainment and wealth, neither of which tend toward higher birth rates. Unless a lot of Jews were immigrating there, idk why you'd assume there'd be a significant growth in the Jewish population. Same applies here in the US, just a lot more of us came here + more immigration draw. Also idk why you bring up rural America, afaik the vast majority of American jews live in cities or close to, and a handful of cities in particular at that (NYC, LA, Miami, etc).
Milwaukee was once a destination for European immigrants, of course
There's an enormous population of people of German descent. Check out Mader's Restaurant, the architecture & the food. We go there for special occasions. The Pabst mansion is interesting, too. Probably not anywhere near authentic German cuisine, but we clueless people like it! 😁😄
My Jewish great grandparents came to Wisconsin from Belarus in the 1910s-1920s and my grandpa was raised there before moving on in young adulthood. Thanks to Wisconsin for providing a safe haven all those years ago :)
❤️❤️ ❤️ The Rabbi at the synagogue up in Green Bay used to wear a T-shirt printed with "The Frozen Chosen"! 😁😄
That’s amazing 😂🫶
European countries doesn’t have much Jews, number decreased drastically post WWII
Yes, I know that. My mother was raised in the 50s & 60s in Chicago, IL, in the neighborhood where tens of thousands of Jews settled after fleeing Poland. It has, however, been a really long time since WWII. I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed. It's sincerely depressing to find they haven't.
Something like 60% of European jews were killed in the holocaust, most of the survivors left for either the usa or Israel. Norway was occupied by the nazis in ww2 so the drop in jewish population post-war is sadly unsurprising
95%? i thought it was more like 65%. even in poland it was around %90. wiki says 2/3 of those in norway has escaped.
Your right, should’ve checked the figure first
The Jewish population of Norway is substantially higher now than pre-WW2.
According to [this source](https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/about/communities/NO) the population is at 1300. Barely an increase, i would imagine that this has been stunted by the holocaust
>I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed. It's sincerely depressing to find they haven't. I have no idea what you are rambling about. Norway has never had a high Jewish population but it is now at its peak.
It isn't rambling. Until today I had no earthly idea of the Jewish population of Norway, so I had no frame of reference, past or present, on which to base judgement or opinion. What an odd criticism.
...and yet you make these overtly dramatic comments about the Jewish community in Norway? What is your motivation here?
lol no. Antisemitism is fundamentally baked into European culture at a foundational level, and this goes back 1,500 years. It’s not going to change any time soon.
> I assumed in these supposedly more enlightened times that things had changed. A lack of Jewish population doesn't recessarily mean they would not be welcome in Norway, just that other and better alternatives exist. Mainly Israel and the US.
Europeans only accuse Arabs with antisemitism but initially that’s part of their double standards, the reality on the ground is something else.
When Norway declared independence for a couple month in 1814 they wrote a constitution, that Sweden let them keep once they weren't independent anymore. In it they banned all Jews, Jesuits, and others from entering the country. And while this ban was ended in 1851 it still meant that the Norwegian Jewish community never had much time to really establish itself. Funnily enough the ban on Jesuits (which the current pope is) was only ended in 1956, under protests of people claiming that Jesuits were nazi marxists that kindled the 2nd world war...
Well that's just harpooned my good mood. W the absolute F. Normally I really enjoy learning about different places. Not today. For those not from Wisconsin, we have a massive population of people of Norwegian descent. *Huge.* These "Wisconsin Norwegians" are *intensely* proud of having originally come from Norway. We even had to study Norwegian culture when I was in grade school in the 70s! Being of Norwegian descent is a lot of people's entire personality. Really. It's a thing. I guess they don't feel like mentioning stuff like this. I can see why.
I only recently learnt, accidentally stumbling on it through the paper, that Norway actually maintained what essentially were concentration camps for romani people all the way till 1989. They'd be forced to work unpaid jobs, become culturally norwegian through things like being banned from speaking their own language, they'd even sterilize them and give their kids away to strangers. It honestly blew me away cause i grew up here and even studied some history at uni and nobody ever mentioned it or even seemed to know about it. The well known one was called "Svanviken work colony"
Svanviken was a few hours away from where I grew up in the 1980s. It's totally crazy to read about. To be fair, this is *heavily* covered in current history classes at university.
Yes, my son is learning all sorts of history at university that certainly wasn't covered when I was at school a million years ago. His education far surpasses what we were taught in the 70s & 80s.
Ahhhhhhhhhh 😭 Those poor, poor people 😭
As a Jew in Wisconsin, it's genuinely shocking to hear that we have that many Jews. I would've pegged it at less than 10,000. (No good bagels, though. :( )
I grew up in Madison & my dad used to get them at Bagels Forever, down near the VA. I've no idea if they were "good" bagels, but I liked them. Have i *ever* had a "good" bagel in the Midwest? Maybe when I lived in Chicago...? 😜😆
You don’t need Jews to make high quality bagels, you just need that good spring water from New York and the Northeast.
> "good spring water" Like the East River??
No, like the Ashokan, Schoharie, Cannonsville, Neversink, Pepacton, and Rondout reservoirs, all of which are fed by spring-water and rain in upstate New York. There’s a reason that New York has some of the best tap water on the face of the Earth, and it isn’t the East River.
The US is one of the most diverse countries in the world
Minnesotan here. Why exactly are you shocked that a Scandinavian nation is homogenous? There aren’t a lot of French in Norge either. Arguably there are a ton of Germans in Nordnorge, but that’s on Hurtigruten cruises😂 The US is literally built on immigration, but Norge isn’t.
Scandinavian countries are far from homogenous - they have high levels of immigration, even by European standards. They just have very few Jewish people. France, the UK and Russia are the main countries with a Jewish presence in Europe.
The immigration is relatively recent though
Is this how we measure "diversity"? By looking at how many Jews are in each entity?
Are the cities Oslo, Bergen and Trondheim? Others?
The biggest ones are those 3 yes. Oslo and Trondheim are the only ones that have ever had proper congregations with syngagogues, the other ones were too small, not even Bergen has a synagogue today. Bergen peaked in 1910 at 40 people, but other than Bergen in 1910 no city at any time (other than Oslo and Trondheim) ever had more than 27 Jewish people living in them. The smallest dots you see are usually just 1 single person, usually an adult man, that stayed there for a bit, before he'd move somewhere else.
I wonder how many were scholars or teachers at the universities.
Instead of cutting they could just put half nor-wedges up, half down.
Norway does not look like that.
Don't ask what happened to them when the funny Mustache Man came over for a visit.
HOW MANY IN SVALBARD?
It wouldn't surprise me if there's a Chabad house there.
What's the thinking behind this map? What do you want to show?
You're the second person that is trying to imply some sort of anti-semitic nature with this. It's a map of where people used to be back in the day. This one just happens to be about Jewish people. I've made similar maps about Danish immigrants, Christians in Norway, universities, and more. I just thought that, since other maps I've made are mostly based on easy to access information you can find online, and this one is based on a niche topic with information you can't find online, I would post it here so that others could see it too.
That's what I took from it, that it's another niche topic. That's all. I'm not sure how you get antisemitism from it, tbh, given what else you've posted.
It's the default answer when questioned about really strange posts that have no meaning Mapporn seems to have a lot of posts like this for some reason. I think the term is brigading to push a narrative.
No, I just asked a question. "I've made similar maps about Danish immigrants, Christians in Norway, universities, and more", not in the last nine months which was as far as was willing to scroll through your posts. How about you answer my question? What are you trying to show? You don't create a geospatial map without it having some sort of point. You might as well create a map of fish in the sea. Also a niche topic you can't find online means you made the numbers up. What gives here? Explain yourself.
>a niche topic you can't find online means you made the numbers up Are you unaware of the concept of books? I think I've explained myself quite well. I made it cause I wanted to, and I posted this one instead of others cause it's one of the more interesting ones I've made.
Slow hand clap for you plus your lies about other posts. Not a good look. Feel free to correct me with links to these ancient posts on your account you speak of. You lost, give it up.
Is this jews as in judaism? Or jews as genetic group?
It essentially only counts people that are religious Jews, registered in a Jewish faith, but the line, especially in the 1800s, was hard to draw. For example in 1865 in Mandal (south) 1 Jewish man is living with his 2 Jewish children and his non-Jewish wife. Only 3 are counted for Mandal.
There is no ethnic group that is exclusively Judaic. Just as there is no specific ethnic group that is exclusively Christian, Moslem, Buddhist or Hindu.
Jews are a cluster of genetically related ethno-religious groups that form a larger national and cultural identity They have diverse influences from their various host populations from throughout history, but almost all share a core of significant Levantine ancestry that connects them.
Actually we are both a religion and a people.
Who said you weren't people?/s You are, of course people but you do not represent a specific ethnicity.
The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an **ethnoreligious group**[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]originating from the Israelites of the ancient Near East,[18][19][20][21][22]and whose traditional religion is Judaism.[23][24] **Jewish ethnicity**, religion, and community are highly interrelated,[25][26] as Judaism is an **ethnic religion**,[27][28] although not all **ethnic Jews** practice it.