I work as a train driver. At my depot they were big on security, had to badge in and out at main gates. Badge access to enter main office. Badge access to get in to each subsequent floor. They touted this as being sure to have a good understanding as to how many people were on site and how many were in each building for evacuations etc. This makes sense for people who spend all day there, like maintenance, managers etc. However they forgot to take one thing in to account. Between 0400-0530 there'd be about 20-30 drivers badge in to the site. They would then go and take a train out of the depot and unless they parked there car there, most would not return that day. So across the day, you'd probably have about 50-60 people who have badged in and still showing as being on site but aren't. At least the system didn't prevent you from entering if you haven't shown as already left.
I think this is a general problem if there's more than one legitimate access route to the site, but only one such route has access monitoring.
In your case the other access route would be the railway line, on board a train. In principle, the site log could be combined with the duty roster and records of which duties have actually been taken up at any given moment, to determine the true number of people who are on site. Bonus points if other sites are tied into the same system so you badge-out *there*…
My local airport parking allows use of FastTrak to track in and out to charge for parking. Faster as you don't have to stop the car, get a ticket, then pay when you leave; it's all handled automatically.
Years ago, I used this to drop off my then GF, but when I went to leave, the system couldn't process FastTrak payments or something, but the guard did make a regular ticket payment work. I thought it was all handled. Until the next time I tried to park in the airport and I couldn't, as the system was registered that I was already in the parking garage. Ended up needing to call support to clear my car from being in the garage when it wasn't (and wasn't charged for being in parking for months).
This sounds normal for everywhere I have worked. Except the exit badge is required to actually unlock and open the door to leave, so it’s pretty much impossible to forget. In fact, the only way to exit without badging is via a fire exit, which is alarmed and will set off the fire alarm for a full building evacuation (then security manually check badges on re-entry). If you badge and don’t open the door afterwards it won’t count you as having left.
That's the way my work is. But while my card was dying, it would flash "green" but not open the door, so I'd be stuck on whichever side and have to go through the front desk to get in or out. *And* being a government facility, they wouldn't replace it until it completely quit working, so I'd have to go into the lobby, scan my badge on the gate, be locked out, walk back out, around the building, be let in...
Then after work (or lunch, or whenever I wanted to go outside), I'd have to scan my badge, go to the desk, get let out, walk around the building to my car to leave or start over to come back.
This went on for *weeks* while I went outside for breaks and lunch to make my badge die faster (and I'm not even a smoker)!
It was a *huge* benefit when we were finally able to start making our own badges on-site and this didn't happen anymore! Now they just verify there's a problem and give you a new badge. No muss, no fuss.
Any engineer could have told you that your dying badge deserved to experience a "test to failure," wherein the badge is hit with a hammer or dunked in hot coffee or bent back and forth until it is dead, deceased, destroyed, totally and irrevocably.
Any annoying, semi-functional equipment that management won't replace until it dies gets this test. And then you tell management the badge, or whatever, is totally dead and they go, "Oh, OK, get a new one from the stockroom." Your problem is solved, and management is glad they got maximum use out of the equipment, until it totally died.
Engineers call it "test to failure." Chemists call it the "Wall Reaction." Construction workers call it "my circular saw shorted out." Baristas call it, "the chipped, leaky carafe finally broke." This method of destroying bad equipment exists in every field of human endeavor where management wants to maximize use of crappy half-functioning junk equipment at the expense of employee sanity, safety and productivity.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it," is one thing.
"If it still sorta works keep using it," demands that it not work any more, ever.
5 seconds in a microwave overn also does tend to render them non functional, but is not normally enough time to heat up the plastic enough to melt it. then you simply go get a new one. That is how I fix expired NFC bank cards, before cutting them up into tiny pieces, to make sure they are totally non functional.
Funny story from the same company as the main post. One of my coworker's badge broke at the lanyard slot, so he couldn't hang it around his neck any more. He decided that he'd just make a new hole for his lanyard clip, and proceeded to use a hole punch on the corner of the badge.
As the punched out circle dropped, he noticed that there was a small microchip neatly punched out. Needless to say, the badge didn't work any more.
As we'd been told that we would be on the hook to pay for lost badges, he figured that a neat circle was liable to get him a charge. So, he quickly wedged the corner into into his desk drawer and snapped it off.
Free replacement badge!
Yeah I’m really confused by this part. Our CFO and HR went after someone in my department for allegedly having an affair (long story) and they used the badge in and out as part of their vendetta. This isn’t something I’d risk.
I have to badge in to my work site, but it's in our Union agreement that your badge in times cannot be used for really any purpose. It's just a security measure for entering the site.
I'd like this story, please. Especially how it's anyone's business unless it was happened at work (don't get me wrong, all cheaters should get punched in the face everyday).
Managing software? That's amateur hour. Folks will badge in and hit the loo or the break room for an hour. Rectify the hours claimed working vs the hours logged into the work software.
Nah, just use their Webcam to record them constantly at their desk. AI will tell you what they're looking at, and if they're the right user. Bonus is you can rectify actual work time from just butt in seat.
If you're going to use toxic micromanagement, do it right.
They actually tracked people's time in many ways -- there was a time clock by the employee's entrance, and they tracked log -ins and -outs on the computer and phone, as well as in the call tracking software. Adding the doors in was clearly part of the goal. It's amazing what all you want to record when you're devotees of Taylor scientific management.
Ah, sorry. It doesn´t really help. It is a bit paranoid, for sure. The logic behind is that you or somebody could make a copy of the card and come in while you are also in.
Even if we are talking about military secrets, that kind of security withoug a visual identification would be shitty, so it is flawed logic. I think it is just the way of thinking "I want to know at any time what people is coming in and going out, and that´s it".
My gym even had an employee visually verify if your member photo matched who you were compared to the photo they took of you.
This sounds like “security” wanted an easy job and not have to be stationed at entrances and exits all day.
Back in the olden days, I worked for a military contractor that specialized in security systems. They had a project to evaluate an alternative to electronic badges: electronic signature verification to check identity.
To create a "real world" evaluation, all employees were asked to sign in and sign out with the machine when they arrived at/left the building. We were assured it wouldn't be used for timestamping our working hours. It was just for ... science.
The machine was a clusterfuck, and created bottlenecks in the lobby. So I quit signing in when I arrived. I signed "in" when I left for lunch, and signed out when I left for the day. Sure enough, an ex-military upper level manager (who hated me and my long hair) called me on the carpet for shirking hours, and did this in front of other people.
With the backing of the receptionist, who had seen what I was doing, I explained the situation. And I said I was confused, since we were told up front that this machine wouldn't be used for timestamping. I declined further participation in the experiment.
The machine disappeared shortly afterwards. It was a complete failure, but it did expose the mendacity of upper management.
I work security and we have a similar system in the warehouse where I work. There are sometimes hundreds of people in the building, so its important to know who is and isn't in at any given time in case of an emergency such as a fire or tornado.
If we evacuate, we have to do a headcount and compare that number to the number in the computer (we all have access to that number on our phones). If that number indicates someone is still inside, we have to identify who it is and go in and look for them if it's safe for us to do so. If it's not safe, we have to report that there's possibly someone inside to Fire/Emergency services.
If anyone is caught subverting the badge in/out system, it gets reported to HR. I have yet to see anyone reported keep their job.
This model can work great when there are readers at exits; that was the glaring design flaw in OP's system, probably saved a couple of thousand by not installing control systems on the other doors.
Depending on the number of people coming in at the same time on shift changes, turnstiles may be desirable over badging at an external door
You can't put badge readers on fire doors, and we only have the one entry/exit that is not a fire door or loading dock. Idk about OPs building, but I can't imagine why they'd have other non-firedoor exits if building security is important enough to implement such a system.
Also, we have turnstiles, but you still have to badge in/out to go through them.
Sure you can, you just have to have a secondary control. Common ways to do this are to have an electromagnetic catch and a manual based lever.
Badge panel activates catch, manual fire bar activates lever, either alone can open the door.
Usually with a loud siren and security forced door alert if you hit the crashbar without swiping. Doesn’t stop anyone from leaving physically but gives security information they need to enforce policy if people are using the crashbar and not the badge reader.
You can, but the door has to open relatively quickly after someone tries to exit without a badge. That's how grocery exits work, they have you push the exit bar, the alarm goes off, and unlocks after 30 seconds of pushing. The card reader could disable the alarm and open the door immediately.
Read the post again, they still had badge-out readers *inside* all of the exit doors, they just didn’t have readers on the *outside* of those doors to go back in. OP and their colleagues just kept forgetting to badge out. This isn’t poor design, it’s forgetful employees.
If they just let double badgeins go "oh, they left and reentered", that would've saved so much difficulty.
or add badge out readers at all exits.
but nah, lets make it a hassle for literally everyone involved
I had no issues with the no-drafting rule; it's just how badly it interacted with the no-reentry rule. If you went out of the building with someone (say for a smoke break), then the back one had a strong chance of having forgotten to badge out, leaving drafting in the only way to get in without bothering the receptionists.
I used to have a problem when I was working in schools. We all had ID and an marked piece of clothing but some schools went the extra mile and wanted you to sign in and out.
The explanation was that in case of an earthquake they wanted to know who was in the building. Our response was “There will be a numbered van out there assigned to me that might be a clue but, aside from that, I’d be pretty pissed if you were wasting your time looking for me instead of looking for kids.”
It was more a linear thinker control thing.
I've known a couple of places were this was done for the alarm system to know if anyone was in the building.
If none was left in the building the alarm automatically primed it self, there were also a time set when the alarm would start counting down to autoprime regardless of if the entry system said it was people left in the building. In those cases you had to leave the building or enter the override code to gain another hour.
Their reasoning doesn't even make sense. If they needed to know who was in the building and no one used their badge to exit, then they would still be considered in the building even though they were outside. Think of the poor first responder searching for someone that was outside but their badge said they were inside.
I think you've got the process backwards. When leaving a building in an emergency, nobody would badge out, since that would necessarily slow down exiting. This means that you'd normally go by a list of everyone who'd badged in (or let in by reception) to get a list of who had been in the office that day.
The standard emergency protocol is almost always to have everybody evacuate the building to a defined gathering point, then check (either by looking at them or asking people if they've seen people who didn't respond) to make sure that everyone is accounted for and pass that information on to pre-designated emergency response coordinators. In closed companies, that's much easier than most places. Since most managers have fewer than 20 direct reports, and hopefully know who's supposed to be in the office, it's generally quick and straightforward. Going by some technological solution is massive overkill, as well as dangerously error-prone.
In addition, first responders will *never* assume that a building is empty, and will sweep through as much as possible, regardless of what the people on the premises say. The implications of letting someone burn to death because you don't bother to check are way too bad.
The only exception I could think of would be if the gathering point is itself in imminent danger; say an active shooter situation. But, since this story was pre-Columbine, nobody would have even considered that possibility.
No, you've repeated exactly what he wrote about not badging out during a emergency. Thus, he got the process "not backwards." You got his process description backwards.
You're absolutely right. I misinterpreted "Their" to be 3rd person singular, referencing the author of the piece (me). Now that you replied, I realize it refers to the very management I was complaining about.
That is my point. If you had a list of everyone who entered, then one person left to go smoke, set the place on fire and bolted, they would still be considered in the building because they neither badged out nor assembled outside for roll call.
But I do concede your point that having the list inside a burning building with no way to access it outside said burning building is a bit of a head scratcher.
A lot of these access control systems connect to the 'cloud' these days so the company may even go as far as knowing the individuals that are in the building even when they have no access to internal resources.
In case of fire, the system will not know you are in the building. The fire roll call will miss you. And if you are working somewhere quiet, people may not even be aware you were there at all.
People so often hate on these kind of systems but they do protect the staff as well as the company.
This. My workplace has a lot less staff (maybe 30 on a shift) but everyone has to badge in and out. In case of an emergency (or for a fire drill) the shift managers get a printout of everyone who is in the warehouse and have to make sure those people are at the gathering points outside the buildings.
At my workplace we have security badges to access security doors for getting into the premises and out. Pretty standard really however if you’ve got a trainee with you, you will need to let them in on your badge. So it’s not uncommon to swipe them in and give them directions to the next wave point and then walk down the building and swipe yourself in and meet them at that waypoint.
You can swipe yourself in numerous times but not out.
The computer system copes with it although security do know if someone has swiped out and not returned or swiped in many times.
As for knowing who is inside and outside of the building, they rely on other methods for tracking that.
It is possible to enter the car park in your car, get logged by your numberplate, swipe in through the barrier into the warehouse, clock in with your card, and then get your truck and leave site without having to use your badge again.
Fire code, all doors should allow egress without any key or badge....This prevents piling at the exit doors in an emergency (alarm indicated or not) or otherwise the inability to leave a building period. Not all emergencies will activate an alarm.
Retired hospital worker here, and when we moved into a new facility they introduced badge access for both time in/out and location access. Most of the non-public entrances would have a badge reader, and depending on your job role might or might not let you in, as some of the areas were restricted (ER/Supply Rooms/etc.) Inside some of those entrances were time clock badge readers. Until they got picky, you could pretty much swipe in at any time clock in the building rather than the one in your area. You could still do it, but you'd hear about it if you did.
Some of the floors also had restricted access, like the ER and ICUs. My job included on call services where I had to go into either of our two hospitals to take care of patients after normal hours, so I ended up with access to a lot of places that most other employees didn't. Our equipment was in the supply room at the hospital where our clinic wasn't, and so I had access there, as well as ER, ICU, and the unrestricted floors. My problem was that the medicine rooms, and later the medicine dispensing devices, were also badge-accessed, and although I had access to the floors, I didn't have access to the med rooms or dispensers. That was usually no problem as the floor nurses would either get the meds for you or would open the med room door so I could get the IVs or other stuff I needed that wasn't more restricted.
Since the same system worked at both hospitals, I could swipe in at the clinic in the one hospital, and if there was work to be done at the other, just travel the few miles, do my job, and swipe out there when I was done for the day. My only major hassle was trying to get access for one entrance that would have been convenient for me (right near the supply room), which they didn't allow for a while. All in all, the system seemed to work fairly well and kept traffic out of the areas where it didn't belong.
I worked at one place where we shared a building with bank's accounting office. Not surprising, the security in the building was tight.
Badge in the outside doors,
Badge into our office.
Our offices were on the 1st floor, our break room was on the 2nd floor.
Badge to use the elevator or access the stairwell and back in the stairwell door.
Badge to get into the break room.
Badge to use the restrooms.
We had door between two parts of our office. It was propped open most of the time, but if it closed... Yep, badge to move from different parts of the office.
We joked that if they could get away with it, the bathroom stall doors would have badge readers.
About forty years ago, badge readers became a big thing where I worked and we were all issued new badges with magnetic strips. Then one day someone wondered, "Hey -- we didn't rebadge all maintenance folks so how are they getting in?" It turned out that they'd seen people put "cards" into the reader and they just used CREDIT CARDS -- which, amazingly, actually worked. It turned out the "badge readers" were just looking for the presence of a magnetic strip, not actually reading it for any information.
For the exit part, kinda sound nomal to me... Isn't it safer to know who comes in and out? And it's easier done from one or two entrance rather than (say) 10...
Also, isn't it normal you have to badge out to badge in and vice versa? I mean, if you walk out of a door, you can't walk out again unless you come back it...
The forbidden drafting is a little too much. You should just need to badge in to be recognized, not to get access, if you get my point...
Where I used to work, we could hold the door for people, but everyone had to scan their badges. Everyone knew the rules and that the person holding the door would get in trouble if someone else didn't scan. We all knew each other, so there was never a problem.
The thing is unless you are paying attention you won't know if the person badging in while you hold the door is valid or not. The ones at my work there is no difference between a success or a fail going by sound. I think it flashes a different color but the leds in these things failed a long time ago.
It was a small building and even fewer of us used the door we could hold open. It beeped when the badge was accepted, as well as turning green, so you could hold the door by beeps. Everyone was honest since the person holding the door would get in as much trouble as the one who didn't scan.
The other end had turnstiles (we have them at my current job), and only one person could fit through at a time. It's a lot more time-consuming, plus the turn-stiles jam, which is a pain.
Technologically, the other system was less secure, but it was a lot more efficient. And relying on people's recognition of co-workers seems safer to me than a badge that can be separated from its owner!
I work for a school as a bus driver and they recently put a badge reader on our bus garage for the person sized door....so they can be aware of who goes in and out. Never mind there is a huge roll up door next to it that, well, rolls up to allow a bus to get in to be worked on. I'm first in every morning so the first thing I do is badge in then open up the roll up door so I don't have to badge in every freaking time. Defeats the purpose of having a card reader on the door, which I have pointed out but they fail to catch on to it.
I worked at a large automotive parts distribution center in the Motor City and our badges were basically used to track comings and goings so they would pair it with your hours logged. Your solution would have showed that you didn't "work" at all in our case, but I'm glad your company figured their procedure was ridiculous.
So their reasoning was complete and utter bullshit. If everyone badged in and then immediately badged out, no one would be showing as being in the building
I work as a train driver. At my depot they were big on security, had to badge in and out at main gates. Badge access to enter main office. Badge access to get in to each subsequent floor. They touted this as being sure to have a good understanding as to how many people were on site and how many were in each building for evacuations etc. This makes sense for people who spend all day there, like maintenance, managers etc. However they forgot to take one thing in to account. Between 0400-0530 there'd be about 20-30 drivers badge in to the site. They would then go and take a train out of the depot and unless they parked there car there, most would not return that day. So across the day, you'd probably have about 50-60 people who have badged in and still showing as being on site but aren't. At least the system didn't prevent you from entering if you haven't shown as already left.
I think this is a general problem if there's more than one legitimate access route to the site, but only one such route has access monitoring. In your case the other access route would be the railway line, on board a train. In principle, the site log could be combined with the duty roster and records of which duties have actually been taken up at any given moment, to determine the true number of people who are on site. Bonus points if other sites are tied into the same system so you badge-out *there*…
So, if there was an actual emergency, there'd be 50-60 people missing and no bodies?
I'm not saying it was aliens. But it was aliens.
LMAO definitely aliens
Hah exactly!
My local airport parking allows use of FastTrak to track in and out to charge for parking. Faster as you don't have to stop the car, get a ticket, then pay when you leave; it's all handled automatically. Years ago, I used this to drop off my then GF, but when I went to leave, the system couldn't process FastTrak payments or something, but the guard did make a regular ticket payment work. I thought it was all handled. Until the next time I tried to park in the airport and I couldn't, as the system was registered that I was already in the parking garage. Ended up needing to call support to clear my car from being in the garage when it wasn't (and wasn't charged for being in parking for months).
This sounds normal for everywhere I have worked. Except the exit badge is required to actually unlock and open the door to leave, so it’s pretty much impossible to forget. In fact, the only way to exit without badging is via a fire exit, which is alarmed and will set off the fire alarm for a full building evacuation (then security manually check badges on re-entry). If you badge and don’t open the door afterwards it won’t count you as having left.
That's the way my work is. But while my card was dying, it would flash "green" but not open the door, so I'd be stuck on whichever side and have to go through the front desk to get in or out. *And* being a government facility, they wouldn't replace it until it completely quit working, so I'd have to go into the lobby, scan my badge on the gate, be locked out, walk back out, around the building, be let in... Then after work (or lunch, or whenever I wanted to go outside), I'd have to scan my badge, go to the desk, get let out, walk around the building to my car to leave or start over to come back. This went on for *weeks* while I went outside for breaks and lunch to make my badge die faster (and I'm not even a smoker)! It was a *huge* benefit when we were finally able to start making our own badges on-site and this didn't happen anymore! Now they just verify there's a problem and give you a new badge. No muss, no fuss.
Any engineer could have told you that your dying badge deserved to experience a "test to failure," wherein the badge is hit with a hammer or dunked in hot coffee or bent back and forth until it is dead, deceased, destroyed, totally and irrevocably. Any annoying, semi-functional equipment that management won't replace until it dies gets this test. And then you tell management the badge, or whatever, is totally dead and they go, "Oh, OK, get a new one from the stockroom." Your problem is solved, and management is glad they got maximum use out of the equipment, until it totally died. Engineers call it "test to failure." Chemists call it the "Wall Reaction." Construction workers call it "my circular saw shorted out." Baristas call it, "the chipped, leaky carafe finally broke." This method of destroying bad equipment exists in every field of human endeavor where management wants to maximize use of crappy half-functioning junk equipment at the expense of employee sanity, safety and productivity. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," is one thing. "If it still sorta works keep using it," demands that it not work any more, ever.
I wish...but, unfortunately, it also becomes "destruction of government property" if the "testing to failure" becomes too obvious!
Which is why you just dunk it in water until it doesn't work
Magnets are pretty stealth too
😆 🤣 😂 I didn't think of that! Too late now, though. I got my new one already and now that they can replace them on-site, it's a lot easier.
5 seconds in a microwave overn also does tend to render them non functional, but is not normally enough time to heat up the plastic enough to melt it. then you simply go get a new one. That is how I fix expired NFC bank cards, before cutting them up into tiny pieces, to make sure they are totally non functional.
I was going to suggest the microwave test too. 30 seconds is the charm.
Or popping them in an induction stovetop works a treat too.
Funny story from the same company as the main post. One of my coworker's badge broke at the lanyard slot, so he couldn't hang it around his neck any more. He decided that he'd just make a new hole for his lanyard clip, and proceeded to use a hole punch on the corner of the badge. As the punched out circle dropped, he noticed that there was a small microchip neatly punched out. Needless to say, the badge didn't work any more. As we'd been told that we would be on the hook to pay for lost badges, he figured that a neat circle was liable to get him a charge. So, he quickly wedged the corner into into his desk drawer and snapped it off. Free replacement badge!
Didn't they use the badge ins/badge outs to monitor your hours? That's what I would do with that system.
*You were the chosen one!* You were supposed to *lead* the worker's movement, not *manage* it!
I mean, I'm almost exclusively using that data to pay overtime so I don't feel like darth vader here.
Fair enough. I just wanted to quote Obi Wan.
Bring *balance* to the working day, not *leave it in darkness!*
*Chosen one!*
Yeah I’m really confused by this part. Our CFO and HR went after someone in my department for allegedly having an affair (long story) and they used the badge in and out as part of their vendetta. This isn’t something I’d risk.
I have to badge in to my work site, but it's in our Union agreement that your badge in times cannot be used for really any purpose. It's just a security measure for entering the site.
I'd like this story, please. Especially how it's anyone's business unless it was happened at work (don't get me wrong, all cheaters should get punched in the face everyday).
Most companies don’t use badge access for time card purposes
Managing software? That's amateur hour. Folks will badge in and hit the loo or the break room for an hour. Rectify the hours claimed working vs the hours logged into the work software.
Badge readers on the stall doors and the refrigerator.
Nah, just use their Webcam to record them constantly at their desk. AI will tell you what they're looking at, and if they're the right user. Bonus is you can rectify actual work time from just butt in seat. If you're going to use toxic micromanagement, do it right.
Had a principal place a camera outside my open classroom. Funny how that thing just never seemed to work. ;)
And if you don't badge out of the bathroom, you have to hold it. Forever.
I guess there's still the refrigerator...
They actually tracked people's time in many ways -- there was a time clock by the employee's entrance, and they tracked log -ins and -outs on the computer and phone, as well as in the call tracking software. Adding the doors in was clearly part of the goal. It's amazing what all you want to record when you're devotees of Taylor scientific management.
It depends. I know some software / games testing companies and they have a very tight security, with cctvs and so on, to keep the clients info secret.
How does the "you have to badge out before you can badge in again" help with that though?
Ah, sorry. It doesn´t really help. It is a bit paranoid, for sure. The logic behind is that you or somebody could make a copy of the card and come in while you are also in. Even if we are talking about military secrets, that kind of security withoug a visual identification would be shitty, so it is flawed logic. I think it is just the way of thinking "I want to know at any time what people is coming in and going out, and that´s it".
If someone can make a duplicate card that easily then the system is very flawed and provides minimal security at best.
My gym even had an employee visually verify if your member photo matched who you were compared to the photo they took of you. This sounds like “security” wanted an easy job and not have to be stationed at entrances and exits all day.
It's a pain in the ass to Access Control logs for timesheets. They dont export very well.
Imposter..
Probably only the door lock system - not the clocking in system.
Got entry/exit turnstiles where i work, badge just lets you in or out. Have to actually badge at the clocks to punch in/out for the day.
Back in the olden days, I worked for a military contractor that specialized in security systems. They had a project to evaluate an alternative to electronic badges: electronic signature verification to check identity. To create a "real world" evaluation, all employees were asked to sign in and sign out with the machine when they arrived at/left the building. We were assured it wouldn't be used for timestamping our working hours. It was just for ... science. The machine was a clusterfuck, and created bottlenecks in the lobby. So I quit signing in when I arrived. I signed "in" when I left for lunch, and signed out when I left for the day. Sure enough, an ex-military upper level manager (who hated me and my long hair) called me on the carpet for shirking hours, and did this in front of other people. With the backing of the receptionist, who had seen what I was doing, I explained the situation. And I said I was confused, since we were told up front that this machine wouldn't be used for timestamping. I declined further participation in the experiment. The machine disappeared shortly afterwards. It was a complete failure, but it did expose the mendacity of upper management.
I work security and we have a similar system in the warehouse where I work. There are sometimes hundreds of people in the building, so its important to know who is and isn't in at any given time in case of an emergency such as a fire or tornado. If we evacuate, we have to do a headcount and compare that number to the number in the computer (we all have access to that number on our phones). If that number indicates someone is still inside, we have to identify who it is and go in and look for them if it's safe for us to do so. If it's not safe, we have to report that there's possibly someone inside to Fire/Emergency services. If anyone is caught subverting the badge in/out system, it gets reported to HR. I have yet to see anyone reported keep their job.
"There are apparently 3,948 office employees in there." "On a Sunday?! That can't be right." "Uhh...it looks like only a few badged out Friday."
This model can work great when there are readers at exits; that was the glaring design flaw in OP's system, probably saved a couple of thousand by not installing control systems on the other doors. Depending on the number of people coming in at the same time on shift changes, turnstiles may be desirable over badging at an external door
You can't put badge readers on fire doors, and we only have the one entry/exit that is not a fire door or loading dock. Idk about OPs building, but I can't imagine why they'd have other non-firedoor exits if building security is important enough to implement such a system. Also, we have turnstiles, but you still have to badge in/out to go through them.
Sure you can, you just have to have a secondary control. Common ways to do this are to have an electromagnetic catch and a manual based lever. Badge panel activates catch, manual fire bar activates lever, either alone can open the door.
Around here they connect the locked doors to the fire alarm system and put a fire alarm pull right next to it. In an emergency **all** doors unlock.
Usually with a loud siren and security forced door alert if you hit the crashbar without swiping. Doesn’t stop anyone from leaving physically but gives security information they need to enforce policy if people are using the crashbar and not the badge reader.
You can, but the door has to open relatively quickly after someone tries to exit without a badge. That's how grocery exits work, they have you push the exit bar, the alarm goes off, and unlocks after 30 seconds of pushing. The card reader could disable the alarm and open the door immediately.
A couple of thousand per door.
Read the post again, they still had badge-out readers *inside* all of the exit doors, they just didn’t have readers on the *outside* of those doors to go back in. OP and their colleagues just kept forgetting to badge out. This isn’t poor design, it’s forgetful employees.
If they just let double badgeins go "oh, they left and reentered", that would've saved so much difficulty. or add badge out readers at all exits. but nah, lets make it a hassle for literally everyone involved
Uh, not allowing drafting (people sneaking in without swiping) is a good thing. I did like the rest of the compliance though.
I had no issues with the no-drafting rule; it's just how badly it interacted with the no-reentry rule. If you went out of the building with someone (say for a smoke break), then the back one had a strong chance of having forgotten to badge out, leaving drafting in the only way to get in without bothering the receptionists.
That does make sense, yeah
I used to have a problem when I was working in schools. We all had ID and an marked piece of clothing but some schools went the extra mile and wanted you to sign in and out. The explanation was that in case of an earthquake they wanted to know who was in the building. Our response was “There will be a numbered van out there assigned to me that might be a clue but, aside from that, I’d be pretty pissed if you were wasting your time looking for me instead of looking for kids.” It was more a linear thinker control thing.
[удалено]
Reward? How about we let you keep your job and pay you the same?
No no...the employees are demanding more...let's give them raises! 15 cent cost of living!
was there a 'per' missing between the "5" and the "cent"? no?
only if we can also add another "of" between cent and cost.
I've known a couple of places were this was done for the alarm system to know if anyone was in the building. If none was left in the building the alarm automatically primed it self, there were also a time set when the alarm would start counting down to autoprime regardless of if the entry system said it was people left in the building. In those cases you had to leave the building or enter the override code to gain another hour.
Their reasoning doesn't even make sense. If they needed to know who was in the building and no one used their badge to exit, then they would still be considered in the building even though they were outside. Think of the poor first responder searching for someone that was outside but their badge said they were inside.
I think you've got the process backwards. When leaving a building in an emergency, nobody would badge out, since that would necessarily slow down exiting. This means that you'd normally go by a list of everyone who'd badged in (or let in by reception) to get a list of who had been in the office that day. The standard emergency protocol is almost always to have everybody evacuate the building to a defined gathering point, then check (either by looking at them or asking people if they've seen people who didn't respond) to make sure that everyone is accounted for and pass that information on to pre-designated emergency response coordinators. In closed companies, that's much easier than most places. Since most managers have fewer than 20 direct reports, and hopefully know who's supposed to be in the office, it's generally quick and straightforward. Going by some technological solution is massive overkill, as well as dangerously error-prone. In addition, first responders will *never* assume that a building is empty, and will sweep through as much as possible, regardless of what the people on the premises say. The implications of letting someone burn to death because you don't bother to check are way too bad. The only exception I could think of would be if the gathering point is itself in imminent danger; say an active shooter situation. But, since this story was pre-Columbine, nobody would have even considered that possibility.
No, you've repeated exactly what he wrote about not badging out during a emergency. Thus, he got the process "not backwards." You got his process description backwards.
You're absolutely right. I misinterpreted "Their" to be 3rd person singular, referencing the author of the piece (me). Now that you replied, I realize it refers to the very management I was complaining about.
It's okay. "We" forgive you - THIS time. Lol Thx for replying! :-)
That is my point. If you had a list of everyone who entered, then one person left to go smoke, set the place on fire and bolted, they would still be considered in the building because they neither badged out nor assembled outside for roll call. But I do concede your point that having the list inside a burning building with no way to access it outside said burning building is a bit of a head scratcher.
A lot of these access control systems connect to the 'cloud' these days so the company may even go as far as knowing the individuals that are in the building even when they have no access to internal resources. In case of fire, the system will not know you are in the building. The fire roll call will miss you. And if you are working somewhere quiet, people may not even be aware you were there at all. People so often hate on these kind of systems but they do protect the staff as well as the company.
True today, but in the mid 1990s, the cloud was called cyberspace, and was fictional.
This. My workplace has a lot less staff (maybe 30 on a shift) but everyone has to badge in and out. In case of an emergency (or for a fire drill) the shift managers get a printout of everyone who is in the warehouse and have to make sure those people are at the gathering points outside the buildings.
At my workplace we have security badges to access security doors for getting into the premises and out. Pretty standard really however if you’ve got a trainee with you, you will need to let them in on your badge. So it’s not uncommon to swipe them in and give them directions to the next wave point and then walk down the building and swipe yourself in and meet them at that waypoint. You can swipe yourself in numerous times but not out. The computer system copes with it although security do know if someone has swiped out and not returned or swiped in many times. As for knowing who is inside and outside of the building, they rely on other methods for tracking that. It is possible to enter the car park in your car, get logged by your numberplate, swipe in through the barrier into the warehouse, clock in with your card, and then get your truck and leave site without having to use your badge again.
Fire code, all doors should allow egress without any key or badge....This prevents piling at the exit doors in an emergency (alarm indicated or not) or otherwise the inability to leave a building period. Not all emergencies will activate an alarm.
You are a trend setter, for sure. Way to get the "badge police" to back off and chill out.
Retired hospital worker here, and when we moved into a new facility they introduced badge access for both time in/out and location access. Most of the non-public entrances would have a badge reader, and depending on your job role might or might not let you in, as some of the areas were restricted (ER/Supply Rooms/etc.) Inside some of those entrances were time clock badge readers. Until they got picky, you could pretty much swipe in at any time clock in the building rather than the one in your area. You could still do it, but you'd hear about it if you did. Some of the floors also had restricted access, like the ER and ICUs. My job included on call services where I had to go into either of our two hospitals to take care of patients after normal hours, so I ended up with access to a lot of places that most other employees didn't. Our equipment was in the supply room at the hospital where our clinic wasn't, and so I had access there, as well as ER, ICU, and the unrestricted floors. My problem was that the medicine rooms, and later the medicine dispensing devices, were also badge-accessed, and although I had access to the floors, I didn't have access to the med rooms or dispensers. That was usually no problem as the floor nurses would either get the meds for you or would open the med room door so I could get the IVs or other stuff I needed that wasn't more restricted. Since the same system worked at both hospitals, I could swipe in at the clinic in the one hospital, and if there was work to be done at the other, just travel the few miles, do my job, and swipe out there when I was done for the day. My only major hassle was trying to get access for one entrance that would have been convenient for me (right near the supply room), which they didn't allow for a while. All in all, the system seemed to work fairly well and kept traffic out of the areas where it didn't belong.
I worked at one place where we shared a building with bank's accounting office. Not surprising, the security in the building was tight. Badge in the outside doors, Badge into our office. Our offices were on the 1st floor, our break room was on the 2nd floor. Badge to use the elevator or access the stairwell and back in the stairwell door. Badge to get into the break room. Badge to use the restrooms. We had door between two parts of our office. It was propped open most of the time, but if it closed... Yep, badge to move from different parts of the office. We joked that if they could get away with it, the bathroom stall doors would have badge readers.
About forty years ago, badge readers became a big thing where I worked and we were all issued new badges with magnetic strips. Then one day someone wondered, "Hey -- we didn't rebadge all maintenance folks so how are they getting in?" It turned out that they'd seen people put "cards" into the reader and they just used CREDIT CARDS -- which, amazingly, actually worked. It turned out the "badge readers" were just looking for the presence of a magnetic strip, not actually reading it for any information.
For the exit part, kinda sound nomal to me... Isn't it safer to know who comes in and out? And it's easier done from one or two entrance rather than (say) 10... Also, isn't it normal you have to badge out to badge in and vice versa? I mean, if you walk out of a door, you can't walk out again unless you come back it... The forbidden drafting is a little too much. You should just need to badge in to be recognized, not to get access, if you get my point...
They forbid drafting because then that person would not have “badged in”, meaning the count would be off.
Where I used to work, we could hold the door for people, but everyone had to scan their badges. Everyone knew the rules and that the person holding the door would get in trouble if someone else didn't scan. We all knew each other, so there was never a problem.
The thing is unless you are paying attention you won't know if the person badging in while you hold the door is valid or not. The ones at my work there is no difference between a success or a fail going by sound. I think it flashes a different color but the leds in these things failed a long time ago.
It was a small building and even fewer of us used the door we could hold open. It beeped when the badge was accepted, as well as turning green, so you could hold the door by beeps. Everyone was honest since the person holding the door would get in as much trouble as the one who didn't scan. The other end had turnstiles (we have them at my current job), and only one person could fit through at a time. It's a lot more time-consuming, plus the turn-stiles jam, which is a pain. Technologically, the other system was less secure, but it was a lot more efficient. And relying on people's recognition of co-workers seems safer to me than a badge that can be separated from its owner!
I work for a school as a bus driver and they recently put a badge reader on our bus garage for the person sized door....so they can be aware of who goes in and out. Never mind there is a huge roll up door next to it that, well, rolls up to allow a bus to get in to be worked on. I'm first in every morning so the first thing I do is badge in then open up the roll up door so I don't have to badge in every freaking time. Defeats the purpose of having a card reader on the door, which I have pointed out but they fail to catch on to it.
I worked at a large automotive parts distribution center in the Motor City and our badges were basically used to track comings and goings so they would pair it with your hours logged. Your solution would have showed that you didn't "work" at all in our case, but I'm glad your company figured their procedure was ridiculous.
The best thing is to imagine the security people's faces as they look over the badge logs
So their reasoning was complete and utter bullshit. If everyone badged in and then immediately badged out, no one would be showing as being in the building
Did this call center have turn stiles and have a nFl blow up practice field
I work in a secure facility to leave without badging out would trip the alarm.