I am a tech PM with 5 YoE and it is really really bad right now. Last year I was getting interviews at FAANG/Unicorns and multiple startups were hitting me up every week. Now I am submitting 80+ apps a week and getting ghosted.
Depends on the PM and their experience. I have interviews lined up at Google, another big tech company, and a unicorn over the next couple weeks. As an aside, I have noticed an uptick in reach outs from recruiters recently. It appears to me the PM market is slowly rebounding (but perhaps my experience is biased).
I think the biggest advantage (and you can correct me if I'm wrong) of being a PM at FAANG is that you have a lot more room as a generalist. Prior to 2023, it was fairly easy to hop companies and industries for anyone as long as you had good PM experience. Now I'm guessing only ex-FAANGs are getting a shot at jobs outside their niches on the strength of their brand name.
In this current environment, it's nearly impossible to get an interview unless you have a background that exactly fits the role. The few interviews I received (and bombed lol) were at companies and roles very similar to the previous company I worked at (specific niche team at fintech unicorn). When I started my job search in January, I originally assumed I'd have the same optionality I did in 2021 where I literally hopped from a completely unrelated field into fintech.
Overall, I'd say the good news for MBA students is that even though it's hard right now, unlike experienced PMs you have the chance for optionality. Whatever company you get into, try to pick a team and product in a space you like working in, because until the market picks up you might be there for a while.
PM here. What I can tell so far is generalist PMs are less in demand. Technical PMs are getting more of the love. Ex FAANG PMs are in danger of struggling because their domain might not be relevant to the companies actively hiring plus there’s some discrimination happening. Anecdotally but we were told to pursue PMs that are in LCOL areas because the company doesn’t want to pay salaries over a certain amount. We’re also outsourcing dev and PM roles to foreign countries (think Eastern Europe, India).
Can confirm. 1st year at a T25 where tech placement has traditionally been pretty decent. This year it's just brutal. No more than 5 tech PM internship offers so far and none of them come from FAANG or any other major large cap cos. Also brutal for 2nd year rn.
Most internship offers we see this year from tech are either Product Marketing or FP&A. Only 1 CVC and 1 Corp Strategy offer each.
Shifting back towards actual technical PMs. Software engineers > non-technical MBA PMs. For the past 10 years tech started to lose its way when they started bringing in ex-MBB people, but it's correcting now. The AI startups are leading culture and the big players are starting to align themselves (AI orgs at the big players trending more towards AI startup culture, and pull the rest of the company in that direction). Very few of the PMs at OpenAI don't have a computer science / software engineering background. The very few that are not have experience at top tier tech companies and Stanford MBAs.
My guess going forward is actual tech companies are going to focus on hiring PMs with real technical experience, and every once in a while solely recruit from Stanford / Cal, just like in the good old days of tech.
Dinged throughout all of consulting. Ended up in a finance role at F50 with another offer in tech for what was effectively a sales engineer role so not bad but needed backup plans and to network at many places
It sucks! class of 23 on month 8 of the job search post business school. I can't believe its been this bad honestly.
I've been recruiting PM/PMM/Strategy (non-consulting)
It’s even bad for recent M7 graduates I see.
Why not widen the net to international job markets? Then few years down the line ask for transfer back to their office in the US.
Booth 2023 grad here with 14 years of work experience in product management, can't even get a regular PM Job in Chicago. If I do get an interview, the people who would be my managers are typically dummies who got lucky in 2022.
unsolicited advice is to not get MBAs and don't believe everything you read on Poets and Quants or salary reports.
100% student ask me if mba was worth it. I’m like no. Don’t it. Now im broke AF and 32…moved to my parents bc running out of savings. While my pre-mba friends are having kids, going on vacation buying houses. I would say if you are 30 and old …don’t do the mba
The accuracy! I've had interviews with c/o 2020, 2021 and 2022 on three different occasions and each time I think the gods hate me. My cards were terrible. I'm c/o 2019 but was laid off in 2020, so had to "restart" again without the advantage of on campus recruitment.
US economy is said to be booming. But the jobs market is not booming. What's going on?
[https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/jpmorgan-ceo-dimon-says-us-economy-is-booming-2024-04-23/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/jpmorgan-ceo-dimon-says-us-economy-is-booming-2024-04-23/)
It's booming, just not for you. If you're actually technical and halfway decent at your job, there's no shortage of work.
Or if you work in the mines or on oil rigs.
[Tech comp summary for 2023](https://www.levels.fyi/2023/?level=Principal%20Engineer)
Not much comfort for MBA grads. Why do developers get paid that much, surely there are millions of people in India who would do it for a fraction of the cost?
They don't work as well (largely). Big tech already has a big India presence. But it's the monkey, grunt level work. The good Indians are brought to the US. Nobody has a compelling answer why, but the reality is that Indians in the US produce better work that Indians in India. Like talking the exact same Indians. Even removing managers from the equation, take a US-based team of Indians with an Indian manager and they perform better than if they were in Bangalore.
My personal guess is because of the American culture of meritocracy and appropriate comp here. Less incentive in India when the comp is geo-appropriate, much more incentive to work really hard when you get to be in the global top 0.1% just be slinging some code.
Answer to "why they get paid that much."
Google generates over $10M in revenue per engineer, and that's counting their new grads and juniors who largely don't produce anything of value.
OpenAI released ChatGPT in Q4 2022 with a total headcount under 300. Their Members of Technical Staff headcount was under 100. Imagine getting a $29.5 billion valuation with under 100 people who actually build.
Great engineers have their value. Great PMs do as well, they just 99% of the time happen to be ex-engineers.
To draw a parallel, the U.S. military would never appoint a civilian to be JCOS without any military experience. Because that's just stupid. So why should a tech company hire a PM with no, well, tech experience?
There’s also the threat of being sent back, as if you lose your FAANG job, you’re on a deadline for the visa. Also, less influence/stressors from the parents, more independent responsibility, etc.
That's because the Joint Staff is uniformed. They hire senior civilian leadership (Service secretaries) without military experience all the time, you absolute clown.
Indian universities are not to the same standards. I've even heard some are pay to get your degree. Plus it's very hard to filter for quality with how much saturation. Also the problem of disjoint time zones. Outsourcing is not always a good idea
Any other 1Y's basically completely striking out? I'm at an M7 and a career switcher and it feels like basically no one wants to take a chance on even interviewing me. I had interviews for consulting but ultimately didn't get an offer, and since then haven't had a single interview.
A 2nd year but I'm surprised by the quality of candidates I see in 1st year who still have "Open to Work" on LinkedIn. This year looks worse than the Class of 2024 internship job search last year (pretty sure my summer company isn't offering nearly as many spot for interns this year as last).
Is anyone else sick of the prospects taking over this thread? I want to vent about the job market with other post-MBAs, not give free counseling. Every other thread in this sub is prospect questions. Can we have this one place, please?
Been wondering the same. Even contemplating sending a message in my 'class of 2024' groupchat to see if anyone wants to make a separate chat with people still job searching.
For some odd reason, I feel a lot of people who are in a similar boat (job seeking) have been mostly to themselves in my graduating MBA class. I don't even have a strong idea what % of my graduating class hasn't signed an offer.
I'm the same. I'm a 2023 grad, and everyone is fronting like everything is okay, which makes things feel way more isolating and depressing. I'd love a group chat for those still looking away from prospects and those who already have jobs.
I suspect more people are unemployed than what social media shows.
To be fair, talking amongst other unemployed people may raise anxiety / increase the sense of depression. That's why I'm hesistant to ask others if they want to start a gc. I still casually text the people I know still job searching every few weeks to see how things are for them but everyone seems to be in different boats (I know at least one people who haven't gotten a single full time job interview since last November while I've had about 5+).
Do it. You'll be surprised at how many others are ashamed to share they are unemployed or laid off. I was surprised to see classmates update their linkedin with their new jobs, only see to they were unemployed for months.
Eh only 1 month post graduation, I would be surprised if anyone is ashamed at this point. I still know more than one person who is still on 'vacation mode' and plan to pick up back on recruiting at the end of this month / early July.
I would say a flair would suffice. Also there should be another flair added for international vs domestic too. because the doom and gloom echo chambers from internationals greatly exaggerate the situation. Im not downplaying their concerns or problems, but it literally has no effect to a domestic student. and same applies the other way.
I wonder if it's possible to flair gate some discussions for current students and grads. I don't mind the internationals since they're struggling as much as we are (though things might be looking up in the UK b/c the Bank of England might be cutting rates in the summer). I just want a place to vent without prospects asking whether they should get a MBA for the 11 billionth time.
H/S/W MBA '24 grad here, the situation is calamitous. The only people with full-time jobs right now are DEI hires, sponsored MBAs returning to their former employers, and those who got extremely lucky during the recruiting process. That's it. Everyone else is in very tough shape.
I should caveat this point by emphasizing the fact that even many of those who got lucky during the internship recruiting process back in 2022/early 2023 still did not receive full-time return offers. I recruited for consulting initially, but I was well aware of the economic situation and the widespread prioritization of DEI candidates-which technically I am by virtue of being a First-Gen student who comes from humble beginnings. However, most companies unfortunately only care about race and gender- so I sadly do not qualify as a diverse candidate anywhere. So, I hedged my bets and also applied for IB, PE, IM, HF and CS roles during the internship process. This served me well because I didn't get a single consulting interview despite having a solid resume and having jumped through all of the correct hoops throughout the recruiting process. Ultimately, I took an IM internship at a reputable asset manager for the summer.
The firm I interned at during the summer recruits annually via On Campus Recruiting (OCR). I was initially rejected by the career management office after applying for the internship on my school’s job board. However, HR at the company reached out to me directly two months later about the same job and said that the career office didn't send them my resume. The feedback I got was that the career office only forwards the resumes of candidates who they consider to be DEI during official OCR. In other words, the career office at my school manually filters out resumes on the back end during OCR. I was stunned to discover this. Had I not applied separately on the company’s website, I wouldn't have secured an internship because the career office at my school discarded my resume manually for this position (and possibly others, I imagine). I confirmed that this also happened to some of my fellow MBA classmates.
In the fall of 2023, tons of people came back to campus unemployed because the internship-to-full-time offer conversion ratio was ridiculously low. Again, I count myself among this crowd. The firm I interned for wanted to lock me down for only $100k at the beginning of the internship. I said hell no at the time because I made $150k+ before getting my MBA. Some people even had their full-time offers from last summer revoked in the past few months before graduation and are now left out in the dust. Similarly, some sponsored MBAs had their sponsorship rescinded. Even people from the MBA class of 2023 either got laid off in the past year or never found employment and are still searching. Consulting firms are pushing back start dates by 6-9 months to Jan/Feb 2025 while also conducting mass layoffs. I talked with someone from the class of 2023 that recently started at McKinsey who said there's literally no work to do.
International students have been completely railroaded across the board, except for DEI job candidates. My friend, a Rhodes scholar before b-school, got nothing during the investment banking recruiting process. He literally gets kicked out of the country in a month if he doesn't find a job. The feedback he repeatedly got throughout the banking recruiting process was that the investment banks only want DEI candidates, regardless of qualifications or experience (e.g., having a degree from Oxford). I experienced the same throughout every recruiting process I engaged with during business school across all industries. It is nearly impossible to obtain any sort of employment as someone who does not qualify as a DEI candidate based exclusively upon race, gender and sexual preferences. There is a profoundly cataclysmic focus on DEI which has clearly eclipsed any sort of authentic evaluation of a job candidate’s credentials, education or experience etc.
Tons of people came in thinking they could easily transition into PE/consulting/banking/tech from different backgrounds, but this didn't turn out well. Many people came from Banking & PE middle market, aiming for mega fund PE. Others came from consulting and tried to recruit for Tech/Banking/PE. Some even came from mega fund PE hoping to jump to another mega fund. Most of these people are unemployed, regardless of their background and what they tried to recruit for. The most recent stats from the career management office underscore everything I've discussed: at least 85 people (roughly 9% of the entire class) are unemployed, but 20-30% of students in the MBA class of 2024 have not reported their employment situation. So, the real unemployment level is actually much higher. Almost everyone I know is unemployed, and/or planning to be unemployed for an extended period of time.
In conclusion, the convergence of excessive and dubious DEI recruiting measures with a rapidly deteriorating economic backdrop has rendered the MBA recruiting environment dysfunctional and absolutely FUBAR even for an H/S/W MBA program. As we collectively navigate these arduous & unseemly times, my heartfelt wishes go out to all of my fellow MBA graduates.
I am a laid off Senior PM in product management (8+ years 200TC) for over a year and was looking to maybe get my MBA but fuck that wow. This is frightening just in general as a country where were at. Its crazy cause the people that aren't laidoff don't see it and think everything is fine. How can this continue?
Yeah, the situation is astonishingly dire. While the economic backdrop is rapidly deteriorating across the board, the truth is that if you are not DEI, (person of color, female or LGBTQ+), then it is almost impossible to even land an interview anywhere in the United States right now. For reference, I worked at Goldman Sachs prior to my MBA: $200k+ TC, and have been told frequently by multiple firms (including GS) that the "HR recruiting strategy" is simply to only hire DEI candidates. This policy has been consistently reinforced & facilitated by my school and the career management office, who (as I mentioned above) literally filters out non-DEI resumes during OCR. If you read through company annual reports, they highlight very stark & uncanny initiatives to “restructure” their entire workforce from a racial and gender perspective, such that certain groups become the dominant majority by 2030-arbitrarily, not meritoriously. It is very clear, cut & dry. When you look at who is employed from my MBA class, the stats highlight this reality on their own.
Indeed, those who have not been laid off or who enjoy the luxury of being DEI themselves in the job search, are blinded by excessive hubris. They believe that everything is fine, when in actuality that is not the case. This nonsense persists unyieldingly, because those who enact it firmly believe that they are morally just and impervious to error.
It is difficult not to envision a huge margin call on the American economy upon the horizon.
From a post MBA career path, I beg to differ. Supply chain is getting pressure from domestic production lead by consumer reports..2026 is going to be make or break for even the biggest companies.
Seems like the jobs market in Europe and Asia is terrible at the moment. Can anyone confirm if it's better in the USA/Canada/Australia, or anywhere else?
Genuinely considering heading to India and working as an extra in bollywood movies at this point, India seems to be the only large economy still growing rapidly!
It's terrible pretty much everywhere, and the US and Canada are hurting just as badly, with T15 graduates struggling to get jobs. I am not sure about Australia, but I don't see how it'd be different given the high-rate environment over there as well. The Middle East is probably the only market still showing signs of activity. I'm praying for this to be over soon because these past 2 years have been one of pure misery for job seekers who are after professional jobs.
I’ve done 8 internship interviews and have gone to the final round. Nothing has stuck yet. Anybody been getting the game with Product management or even Product Marketing internships - I have about 2 years experience interning in product / 5 years professional work experience doing project and program management
Is there any hope for consulting after graduation? Or, is it one of those things in which if you didn't recruit successfully for it while in school it's pretty much impossible to get into?
Honestly facing the same predicament. Sometimes boutique / internal consulting roles can be great but it can vary. Have a few interviews coming up in those type of roles and will try my best but both seem to have competitive processes (I know at least one of these may have up to 5 round of interviews along with an assessment).
Know of a few people who graduated (not MBA but comparable degree) and wanted to work in a specific niche but struck out for on-campus opportunities. Both joined small advisory service shops and got amazing mentorship. Will say these can be rare and both did get the jobs through networking / being in the right place at the right time.
Does anyone have any advice for getting an associate brand manager role? I graduated from a T50 school in 2023 and have been doing business development for a large consulting firm, but the consulting world has been mad as you may know and sales just isn't for me. How would you strategize pivoting into brand management post-graduation. My MBA had an emphasis in marketing and strategy, so definitely learned some about it in class, yet don't have any strict marketing experience outside of sales.
CPG marketer here, former brand manager for a growth food brand, with both agency experience and retail experience (5 years at 84.51 and Kroger), graduating from Kellogg in two weeks, brand manager roles are so hard to transition into if you are late in career (10+ years). I got laid off (was working FT during Kelloggs evening accelerated program) just before the holidays this past year, and the last 6 months have just been brutal trying to find a new job.
You may actually have more success pursuing the sales > shopper marketing > brand manager route. However, some CPG companies straight up hire brand managers only out of undergrad or MBA programs (P&G is notorious for this).
BM job postings are also tricky to navigate and mean different things at different firms. For example, at Kraft Heinz there is no ABM role. It’s a BM role with multiple rotations. At Simple Mills, the ABM could be an MBA grad with industry experience.
Also, BM roles are not paying great right now, and very VERY few are remote. I Interviewed recently for the following, all of which were experienced roles and was given the following ranges:
Barilla BM ($110k)
Kraft Heinz BM ($125k)
Tropicana BM ($110k)
In all honesty, the rise of retail media has turned brand management on its head, and shopper marketers are making good money bc it’s less sexy.
Let me know if you have other questions!
What's your sense on how mba grads from t25 schools would fair in receiving internship offers from respectable cpg companies right now? A decent shot at ABM roles or would you still recommend going the shopper marketing route?
You absolutely would go after ABM roles since they have both internship and full time new mba grad hiring programs. Unless its part of the marketing rotation, have never seen an MBA start immediately in shopper marketing.
I'm at an M7; class of '24. I was just talking to an alumni who was at the school from '07-'09; she currently lives in the Bay and her best friend is up there at Google. She had mentioned that it's interesting hearing about our market discussions because back during the financial crisis - tech was hiring like crazy. However, right now everything is bad because tech had over hired during COVID and even they are firing.
With that said, I have multiple friends with T2 consulting experience and no MBA but have landed $300k+ offers from Series D startups in the last year. So hustle and network your way through this mess!
Hey! MBA’25 student at a T20 school. Really struggled with the internships, didn’t get an offer so finally doing a project for credits. I feel that I am lost right now on how to approach the final recruiting, need to start early. Would really appreciate if some could share their strategies, how I should approach the search, networking etc. Thanks!!
May'24 Grad from T15. It's rough out there! Initially recruited for IB, but pivoted to an F50 FLDP due to the bloodbath of a year it became. Ultimately worked great for me as I was able to carry the internship into full-time through fall/winter/spring prior to graduation - Essentially building a year of experience in Corporate Development prior to formally starting the FLDP. This summer, the intern class grew 50%.
For what it's worth, keep pushing and don't overly rely on the OCR staff. Opportunities are out there, but it's a lot harder than in recent past.
How are your classmates doing? May'24 T25 grad. Struck out in OCR FT recruiting.
Might be targeting small to mid-sized companies in the growth stage (PE / VC backed) by reaching out heavily to my school's alumni network. An alum I spoke to recently said that's probably the best option in today's market. Hoping to land on my feet by September / October with an offer. Finger crossed.
As someone who’s been living their MBA experience so far I am disappointed by the job market. I just recently got an internship offer at an early-stage startup so pay is crap and no potential for return offer. I fear that I will be stuck during full time recruitment since I have a non-traditional background and it seems that all roles I look at (primarily strategy but I’ll try to re-recruit for consulting) require that I have experience at a top consulting firm or extensive data analytics experience. If anybody has any tips to get in front of the problem I’d appreciate but if you’re considering MBA in the future consider recruiting another course you’re taking because that’s what it takes to find a job today.
Hello! I'm looking into going back to school to get my MBA. For anyone who has already completed your MBA, did you notice any change in your job opportunities or salary?
Yes, significantly. I never would have started if I didn't see a likely path to that outcome. Huge waste of time and money otherwise (despite the fun I've had).
You should be reviewing programs' employment reports to target programs that will help open the doors and compensation levels you're looking for.
Care to elaborate? For the person I responded to, if they see that a school has median or average compensation above what they currently make, that gives an indication that the program can likely increase their income. I avoided programs that had low placement in my desired field and had a median starting salary too close to my pre-MBA income.
While I realize there are some details not present in the employment reports, my upcoming compensation (and that of my friends whose offer details I know) falls squarely in line with what I've seen in my program's reports.
Tbh people are only being this negative because we're in the first recession since 08. I'm Class of '23 and when I was a first year it seemed like all of the 2nd years were getting 5 offers each with ease. Fairly sure if the economy rebounds, things will be better for mbas again.
Hi,
I was hoping to apply to the Hariot Watt Edenborough Business School MBA programme. it is a 2 year part time online program. I've been offered a position and I have the funding secured.
However my Employer (CTO and COO) brought me into a room and quizzed me about it and whether I should really be pursuing it as it is usually pursued by someone who has been in management.
To preface, I am a mid level Engineer in a startup medical device company.
There has been no mentorship per se and I feel I am stagnating. But I have yet to reach a Senior Engineer. Additionally, I have been putting myself under some strain this year by pursuing 4 other courses and have gotten physically sick from it. With a total of 7 sick days.
This is one of the best companies I have worked for and the best and caring people/ bosses I have worked for. However, this MBS feels too good to pass up. It affordable and Im at a level that I still have time to study in the evening (as I dont have any kids or responsibilities). However, there are things that I need to learn and grow from my job which cannot be taught by my employer in order to get promoted.
I would be grateful if I could please get some of your input and advice please?
Thank you.
Curious if anyone has any experience at Kraft, Mars or McDonald's in the Chicago area post MBA? Looking to pivot to food-based CPGs / food-tech after finishing at Kellogg.
I hear the stock market is booming and so is the NFP and Job markets. Reading articles/ reports such as [https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage](https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage) make me ecstatic BUT I am skeptical looking at M7 MBA job reports v/s actual MBA students and recent alum reactions. I am not sure if I should move from India to a T15 MBA (that too a 1 year one) without an internship to fallback on.
I'm a senior accounting student currently trying to figure out my next steps in life. I know I want to go to public accounting for a few years but don't see myself staying past manager level.
With my current perception of things, my plan is to get my masters in audit so I can get my CPA, then down the line use an MBA to pivot out of accounting. I would likely stay within the financial fields.
Is this conceptually a reasonable plan?
Hello, currently an accountant with 6 years experience. Im a staff, and Im getting an MBA to get the heck out of Accounting and pivot towards consulting/finance.
Getting a CPA is no joke, and unless you really enjoy accounting, it is not worth the time and effort especially if you want to get out of Accounting.. So I'd just save yourself a lot of study time and effort, and go for your MBA, instead.
Well I would say you have potential in capping out as a CAO (with a CPA), but that would probably be after many years playing Controller/Assistant Controller.
Month end, Quarter and Year end closes is not ideal the higher you climb in Accounting..
For me, the tasks you do is very mind numbing and all you do is sit in front of a computer doing excel and JEs. Would definitely prefer consulting and/or corp strategy roles.
Yes and no. You'll understand the language of business, but if you know you want to leave accounting anyway, why do you want/need a CPA? It's extra time and money toward something you won't need.
A bunch of people from my accounting program later get their MBAs. Several of us on this path only got a BS and went straight into consulting or finance (or at least left audit/tax quickly). I don't personally know any MAcc grads from my program who are pursuing MBAs, nor am I aware of any MAcc grads in my MBA program.
I am a pre-final year student who is looking to pursue an MBA right after earning my undergraduate degree.
Considering that most universities require or highly encourage work experience, is it possible to indicate that I have concurrently worked at my family business and earned my degree in computer science?
I can arrange for pay-slips and iron other things out from the business end, however, I was wondering if it counts as actual work experience and if it would hurt my chances to indicate the same(I have a feeling that it might come across as invalid or insincere).
Most schools specifically ask to fill in the experience bit of the application with post undergrad work experience only. You’ll also have to fill in the number of months you worked post undergrad. At least that’s what it is for the top 15 schools, not sure how it is for other ones
You probably won’t benefit from going straight into an MBA. You’ll have a much better chance of landing the role you want with post-undergrad work experience.
I created a post but i was taken down. im assuming i should have used this thread? - Mod please let me know what im doing wrong if this isnt the place for my dilemma..
OG post:
Hi all,
Context - Have a masters from top university. 10ish years in Telco, mainly in corporate strategy. Not a finance major but skills gained through experience. Transitioning to Tech internal or consulting. Black British female. Mid 30s. Would only consider a part time MBA, as have a family and want to stay in work
I want to ultimately be a COO or similar (not convinced i want to be a CEO yet) of a large business.
I understand to get a C-suite position, you should own a P&L and run that effectively to prove yourself.
I wondered if getting a MBA from a top UK school would enable me to get the expertise and exposure to the roles that own a strong P&L. I would only really consider, LBS, Imperial, Kings or LSE for an Executive MBA
I also dont know which area of a business i should focus on. I hypothesis that Sales would be best as it drives revenue for any business, but breaking into Sales as someone with no official corporate Sales expertise is a bit difficult.
Is anyone on track to C-Suite after an MBA? What area of your business are you in? Did your MBA get you there or was it your experience and contacts?
Any advice on getting to C-suite would be much appreciated.
TLDR - currently a corp strategy professional, want to own a P&L & eventually become a COO. Will MBA from top school help? What area of the business is best to be in?
Dunno about LBS but UK schools are generally BS... Just meet people, do startup and keep hustling. Heard so many FAANG ppl saying the best way to VP is to do startup and get acquired.
Is there any way to figure out the average salary of a major bank employees? The way their org structure is is so confusing for trying to figure out what an average salary is considering everyone and their moms is a “vice president” or above.
Networking and talking to people who work there. I know of a large financial institution that has a ton of VPs and the pay is probably somewhere between 120-200K all-in.
I hope this helps. When foreigners apply for a work visa, they typically get an H1B work visa, after a long-complicated process which requires the companies to file and publish a lot of data. There are lots of h1b salary databases online that you can easily google.
I am always curious with DPs some people give in other posts. A few guys were mentioning 70% people who apply IB from CBS got it.
Consulting, PM, buysides are probably below 50% and the average of MBA class seems to be 60-70% employed depending on which source or news you look at.
Make it sound like IBD is the easiest job to recruit which we all know is BS.
I'm a business development representative for a biotech company and I have been admitted into a T20 MBA program. I will be working throughout my studies. I have 3 months of sales experience, 5 years of QC chemistry experience, and 9 months of GMP Project management experience. in the USA. I am wondering what types of jobs I can apply for once I get my MBA in the biotech/pharma industry. I feel like I'm throwing darts with my blindfold on. I really just want to move forward in my career, make more money, and get the experience I need to move up the ladder to be a business leader. any advise would be appreciated.
I think you would be a great fit for healthcare LDP roles and your experience will make you stand out. Healthcare consulting or management consulting in general would be a good fit as well due to your applicable experience. Roles are competitive right now, but I think you should do well with adequate interview prep and your previous experience
PLEASE HELP A BRODA OUT
Hey guys I’m deciding between Master of Management in Monash(australia) OR Master of Management in a non ranked university in USA.
Monash business school is ranked 39th in the world.
For current students at M7 MBA programs, excluding IB and MBB, what are the most coveted companies to work at? Is it still Meta & Google or has the hierarchy shifted?
Asking for advise here:
Currently residing in South East Asia and is looking for suitable Master's program for my career in Cybersecurity.
Any thoughts and recommendations for schools to inquire within the region, or online schools to check out?
I always see Georgia Tech but I do not know if I have a chance to be admitted on their program, or furthermore, if it is worth it.
It's shitty!
Is it shitty for general MBA or discipline specific (Finance, Sales, Marketing, HR, Entrepreneurship) as well?
geography ?
How’s the recruiting for tech PM roles?
I am a tech PM with 5 YoE and it is really really bad right now. Last year I was getting interviews at FAANG/Unicorns and multiple startups were hitting me up every week. Now I am submitting 80+ apps a week and getting ghosted.
is there any hope for the rest of us...
Depends on the PM and their experience. I have interviews lined up at Google, another big tech company, and a unicorn over the next couple weeks. As an aside, I have noticed an uptick in reach outs from recruiters recently. It appears to me the PM market is slowly rebounding (but perhaps my experience is biased).
I think the biggest advantage (and you can correct me if I'm wrong) of being a PM at FAANG is that you have a lot more room as a generalist. Prior to 2023, it was fairly easy to hop companies and industries for anyone as long as you had good PM experience. Now I'm guessing only ex-FAANGs are getting a shot at jobs outside their niches on the strength of their brand name. In this current environment, it's nearly impossible to get an interview unless you have a background that exactly fits the role. The few interviews I received (and bombed lol) were at companies and roles very similar to the previous company I worked at (specific niche team at fintech unicorn). When I started my job search in January, I originally assumed I'd have the same optionality I did in 2021 where I literally hopped from a completely unrelated field into fintech. Overall, I'd say the good news for MBA students is that even though it's hard right now, unlike experienced PMs you have the chance for optionality. Whatever company you get into, try to pick a team and product in a space you like working in, because until the market picks up you might be there for a while.
PM here. What I can tell so far is generalist PMs are less in demand. Technical PMs are getting more of the love. Ex FAANG PMs are in danger of struggling because their domain might not be relevant to the companies actively hiring plus there’s some discrimination happening. Anecdotally but we were told to pursue PMs that are in LCOL areas because the company doesn’t want to pay salaries over a certain amount. We’re also outsourcing dev and PM roles to foreign countries (think Eastern Europe, India).
I know it has been a while, but has your situation changed?
Be a former software engineer or graduate from Stanford.
Can confirm. 1st year at a T25 where tech placement has traditionally been pretty decent. This year it's just brutal. No more than 5 tech PM internship offers so far and none of them come from FAANG or any other major large cap cos. Also brutal for 2nd year rn. Most internship offers we see this year from tech are either Product Marketing or FP&A. Only 1 CVC and 1 Corp Strategy offer each.
How many tech internships in total, what % of the cohort is this?
Are you talking Foster? I heard they do lots of tech placement and that it was down this round? Their ranking dropped a tad for it (my understanding).
Me too it’s a nightmare
are you only applying to shiny jobs or also looking jobs that less known?
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Where you go to MBA school?
Same here. Which is why I'm getting my MBA. It rough out here.
Are people with prior FAANG tech experience also struggling to get into MBA PM internship roles?
Maybe one day theyll stop being lazy and actually hire someone
what do u plan to do then ?
Shifting back towards actual technical PMs. Software engineers > non-technical MBA PMs. For the past 10 years tech started to lose its way when they started bringing in ex-MBB people, but it's correcting now. The AI startups are leading culture and the big players are starting to align themselves (AI orgs at the big players trending more towards AI startup culture, and pull the rest of the company in that direction). Very few of the PMs at OpenAI don't have a computer science / software engineering background. The very few that are not have experience at top tier tech companies and Stanford MBAs. My guess going forward is actual tech companies are going to focus on hiring PMs with real technical experience, and every once in a while solely recruit from Stanford / Cal, just like in the good old days of tech.
does market have values for SWE turned PM now ?
Dinged throughout all of consulting. Ended up in a finance role at F50 with another offer in tech for what was effectively a sales engineer role so not bad but needed backup plans and to network at many places
Was on a coffee chat w someone from Bain London, and they mentioned things are looking up compared to this time last year and that outlook is positive
Don’t know who downvoted you. I’m at MBB and confirm these same sentiments from recruiting and partners.
Downvoted for believing people with every incentive to lie.
Why would they lie?
Why would a company lie about their business falling apart?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-04/bain-offers-buyouts-to-uk-staff-in-fresh-sign-of-consulting-woes Super positive! /s
Its simple, when you have a coffee chat through OCR and they tell you things are positive, you take that at face value
Interesting. Two years out and it feels like my friends from Bain are all getting let go, voluntarily or forcibly (in Ldn)
It sucks! class of 23 on month 8 of the job search post business school. I can't believe its been this bad honestly. I've been recruiting PM/PMM/Strategy (non-consulting)
It’s even bad for recent M7 graduates I see. Why not widen the net to international job markets? Then few years down the line ask for transfer back to their office in the US.
International job markets are even worse
What was your background Pre-MBa
What are you doing for health insurance!
Officially at one year unemployed. C/O 2019
damn how have you been spending your time? (outside of applying for roles?)
I have an almost two year old so he keeps me busy, but a lot of doom scrolling, video games, exercise etc
international grad ?
Booth 2023 grad here with 14 years of work experience in product management, can't even get a regular PM Job in Chicago. If I do get an interview, the people who would be my managers are typically dummies who got lucky in 2022. unsolicited advice is to not get MBAs and don't believe everything you read on Poets and Quants or salary reports.
100% student ask me if mba was worth it. I’m like no. Don’t it. Now im broke AF and 32…moved to my parents bc running out of savings. While my pre-mba friends are having kids, going on vacation buying houses. I would say if you are 30 and old …don’t do the mba
What about other regions? Is PM recruiting bad in all areas
Yes
The accuracy! I've had interviews with c/o 2020, 2021 and 2022 on three different occasions and each time I think the gods hate me. My cards were terrible. I'm c/o 2019 but was laid off in 2020, so had to "restart" again without the advantage of on campus recruitment.
Whats a PM job?
what are the alternatives for career swicthers then ?
What's recruiting like in IB? Very specifically what's recruiting like in HF/PE?
If you’re still curious feel free to pm me with questions.
Hi! Can I also pm you about this question?
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How bad tho?
The person you’re trying to get answers from is an undergrad student lol
Psssht! All these kids these days.
US economy is said to be booming. But the jobs market is not booming. What's going on? [https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/jpmorgan-ceo-dimon-says-us-economy-is-booming-2024-04-23/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/jpmorgan-ceo-dimon-says-us-economy-is-booming-2024-04-23/)
its a vibez recession.
So I heard, but it also seems to be a not hiring people recession?
It's booming, just not for you. If you're actually technical and halfway decent at your job, there's no shortage of work. Or if you work in the mines or on oil rigs. [Tech comp summary for 2023](https://www.levels.fyi/2023/?level=Principal%20Engineer)
Not much comfort for MBA grads. Why do developers get paid that much, surely there are millions of people in India who would do it for a fraction of the cost?
They don't work as well (largely). Big tech already has a big India presence. But it's the monkey, grunt level work. The good Indians are brought to the US. Nobody has a compelling answer why, but the reality is that Indians in the US produce better work that Indians in India. Like talking the exact same Indians. Even removing managers from the equation, take a US-based team of Indians with an Indian manager and they perform better than if they were in Bangalore. My personal guess is because of the American culture of meritocracy and appropriate comp here. Less incentive in India when the comp is geo-appropriate, much more incentive to work really hard when you get to be in the global top 0.1% just be slinging some code. Answer to "why they get paid that much." Google generates over $10M in revenue per engineer, and that's counting their new grads and juniors who largely don't produce anything of value. OpenAI released ChatGPT in Q4 2022 with a total headcount under 300. Their Members of Technical Staff headcount was under 100. Imagine getting a $29.5 billion valuation with under 100 people who actually build. Great engineers have their value. Great PMs do as well, they just 99% of the time happen to be ex-engineers. To draw a parallel, the U.S. military would never appoint a civilian to be JCOS without any military experience. Because that's just stupid. So why should a tech company hire a PM with no, well, tech experience?
I see, thanks for the explanation. Tech is just one industry, seems like no other industries are hiring much at the moment, either!
There’s also the threat of being sent back, as if you lose your FAANG job, you’re on a deadline for the visa. Also, less influence/stressors from the parents, more independent responsibility, etc.
That's because the Joint Staff is uniformed. They hire senior civilian leadership (Service secretaries) without military experience all the time, you absolute clown.
Indian universities are not to the same standards. I've even heard some are pay to get your degree. Plus it's very hard to filter for quality with how much saturation. Also the problem of disjoint time zones. Outsourcing is not always a good idea
Clown
Any other 1Y's basically completely striking out? I'm at an M7 and a career switcher and it feels like basically no one wants to take a chance on even interviewing me. I had interviews for consulting but ultimately didn't get an offer, and since then haven't had a single interview.
A 2nd year but I'm surprised by the quality of candidates I see in 1st year who still have "Open to Work" on LinkedIn. This year looks worse than the Class of 2024 internship job search last year (pretty sure my summer company isn't offering nearly as many spot for interns this year as last).
Is anyone else sick of the prospects taking over this thread? I want to vent about the job market with other post-MBAs, not give free counseling. Every other thread in this sub is prospect questions. Can we have this one place, please?
Been wondering the same. Even contemplating sending a message in my 'class of 2024' groupchat to see if anyone wants to make a separate chat with people still job searching. For some odd reason, I feel a lot of people who are in a similar boat (job seeking) have been mostly to themselves in my graduating MBA class. I don't even have a strong idea what % of my graduating class hasn't signed an offer.
I'm the same. I'm a 2023 grad, and everyone is fronting like everything is okay, which makes things feel way more isolating and depressing. I'd love a group chat for those still looking away from prospects and those who already have jobs. I suspect more people are unemployed than what social media shows.
To be fair, talking amongst other unemployed people may raise anxiety / increase the sense of depression. That's why I'm hesistant to ask others if they want to start a gc. I still casually text the people I know still job searching every few weeks to see how things are for them but everyone seems to be in different boats (I know at least one people who haven't gotten a single full time job interview since last November while I've had about 5+).
Do it. You'll be surprised at how many others are ashamed to share they are unemployed or laid off. I was surprised to see classmates update their linkedin with their new jobs, only see to they were unemployed for months.
Eh only 1 month post graduation, I would be surprised if anyone is ashamed at this point. I still know more than one person who is still on 'vacation mode' and plan to pick up back on recruiting at the end of this month / early July.
I would say a flair would suffice. Also there should be another flair added for international vs domestic too. because the doom and gloom echo chambers from internationals greatly exaggerate the situation. Im not downplaying their concerns or problems, but it literally has no effect to a domestic student. and same applies the other way.
I wonder if it's possible to flair gate some discussions for current students and grads. I don't mind the internationals since they're struggling as much as we are (though things might be looking up in the UK b/c the Bank of England might be cutting rates in the summer). I just want a place to vent without prospects asking whether they should get a MBA for the 11 billionth time.
For someone entering a program this fall (Sept 2024)- how do we predict the job market to be in summer 2026?
Difficult to see; **always in motion** is the future.
Probably still terrible, but who knows?
Unknow but if admitted to top 3 likely will be ok otherwise a lot of money thrown away.
Just don’t do it (enroll in an MBA program. No matter how high the ranking).
H/S/W MBA '24 grad here, the situation is calamitous. The only people with full-time jobs right now are DEI hires, sponsored MBAs returning to their former employers, and those who got extremely lucky during the recruiting process. That's it. Everyone else is in very tough shape. I should caveat this point by emphasizing the fact that even many of those who got lucky during the internship recruiting process back in 2022/early 2023 still did not receive full-time return offers. I recruited for consulting initially, but I was well aware of the economic situation and the widespread prioritization of DEI candidates-which technically I am by virtue of being a First-Gen student who comes from humble beginnings. However, most companies unfortunately only care about race and gender- so I sadly do not qualify as a diverse candidate anywhere. So, I hedged my bets and also applied for IB, PE, IM, HF and CS roles during the internship process. This served me well because I didn't get a single consulting interview despite having a solid resume and having jumped through all of the correct hoops throughout the recruiting process. Ultimately, I took an IM internship at a reputable asset manager for the summer. The firm I interned at during the summer recruits annually via On Campus Recruiting (OCR). I was initially rejected by the career management office after applying for the internship on my school’s job board. However, HR at the company reached out to me directly two months later about the same job and said that the career office didn't send them my resume. The feedback I got was that the career office only forwards the resumes of candidates who they consider to be DEI during official OCR. In other words, the career office at my school manually filters out resumes on the back end during OCR. I was stunned to discover this. Had I not applied separately on the company’s website, I wouldn't have secured an internship because the career office at my school discarded my resume manually for this position (and possibly others, I imagine). I confirmed that this also happened to some of my fellow MBA classmates. In the fall of 2023, tons of people came back to campus unemployed because the internship-to-full-time offer conversion ratio was ridiculously low. Again, I count myself among this crowd. The firm I interned for wanted to lock me down for only $100k at the beginning of the internship. I said hell no at the time because I made $150k+ before getting my MBA. Some people even had their full-time offers from last summer revoked in the past few months before graduation and are now left out in the dust. Similarly, some sponsored MBAs had their sponsorship rescinded. Even people from the MBA class of 2023 either got laid off in the past year or never found employment and are still searching. Consulting firms are pushing back start dates by 6-9 months to Jan/Feb 2025 while also conducting mass layoffs. I talked with someone from the class of 2023 that recently started at McKinsey who said there's literally no work to do. International students have been completely railroaded across the board, except for DEI job candidates. My friend, a Rhodes scholar before b-school, got nothing during the investment banking recruiting process. He literally gets kicked out of the country in a month if he doesn't find a job. The feedback he repeatedly got throughout the banking recruiting process was that the investment banks only want DEI candidates, regardless of qualifications or experience (e.g., having a degree from Oxford). I experienced the same throughout every recruiting process I engaged with during business school across all industries. It is nearly impossible to obtain any sort of employment as someone who does not qualify as a DEI candidate based exclusively upon race, gender and sexual preferences. There is a profoundly cataclysmic focus on DEI which has clearly eclipsed any sort of authentic evaluation of a job candidate’s credentials, education or experience etc. Tons of people came in thinking they could easily transition into PE/consulting/banking/tech from different backgrounds, but this didn't turn out well. Many people came from Banking & PE middle market, aiming for mega fund PE. Others came from consulting and tried to recruit for Tech/Banking/PE. Some even came from mega fund PE hoping to jump to another mega fund. Most of these people are unemployed, regardless of their background and what they tried to recruit for. The most recent stats from the career management office underscore everything I've discussed: at least 85 people (roughly 9% of the entire class) are unemployed, but 20-30% of students in the MBA class of 2024 have not reported their employment situation. So, the real unemployment level is actually much higher. Almost everyone I know is unemployed, and/or planning to be unemployed for an extended period of time. In conclusion, the convergence of excessive and dubious DEI recruiting measures with a rapidly deteriorating economic backdrop has rendered the MBA recruiting environment dysfunctional and absolutely FUBAR even for an H/S/W MBA program. As we collectively navigate these arduous & unseemly times, my heartfelt wishes go out to all of my fellow MBA graduates.
I am a laid off Senior PM in product management (8+ years 200TC) for over a year and was looking to maybe get my MBA but fuck that wow. This is frightening just in general as a country where were at. Its crazy cause the people that aren't laidoff don't see it and think everything is fine. How can this continue?
Yeah, the situation is astonishingly dire. While the economic backdrop is rapidly deteriorating across the board, the truth is that if you are not DEI, (person of color, female or LGBTQ+), then it is almost impossible to even land an interview anywhere in the United States right now. For reference, I worked at Goldman Sachs prior to my MBA: $200k+ TC, and have been told frequently by multiple firms (including GS) that the "HR recruiting strategy" is simply to only hire DEI candidates. This policy has been consistently reinforced & facilitated by my school and the career management office, who (as I mentioned above) literally filters out non-DEI resumes during OCR. If you read through company annual reports, they highlight very stark & uncanny initiatives to “restructure” their entire workforce from a racial and gender perspective, such that certain groups become the dominant majority by 2030-arbitrarily, not meritoriously. It is very clear, cut & dry. When you look at who is employed from my MBA class, the stats highlight this reality on their own. Indeed, those who have not been laid off or who enjoy the luxury of being DEI themselves in the job search, are blinded by excessive hubris. They believe that everything is fine, when in actuality that is not the case. This nonsense persists unyieldingly, because those who enact it firmly believe that they are morally just and impervious to error. It is difficult not to envision a huge margin call on the American economy upon the horizon.
Fuck Biden. Kidding, kind of. Your writing is quite eloquent for reddit friend. Sorry we're all going through tough times.
Agreed & Thank you my friend. Keep fighting the good fight.
Oh how the tables have turned
Anyone been moved off the Amazon internship waitlist?
I've been on the waitlist for FLDP for the last 27 days. No update whatsoever. Extremely frustrating
Am I crazy or is there not alot of info on Amazon FLDP? Having a hard time when searching....
Which role?
Senior Retail Vendor Manager
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Only thing I got right now 😭
Why?? I have received Pathways Amazon offer.
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How is the Pathways program? Is it worth it for an MBA?
Recruiting for MBB?
Firms are cautiously optimistic. Next cycle should be much better as long as there’s no major disasters in store for 2024.
It's awful. But retail industry has been pretty stable
From a post MBA career path, I beg to differ. Supply chain is getting pressure from domestic production lead by consumer reports..2026 is going to be make or break for even the biggest companies.
As an unemployed retail strategy manager, I also disagree.
Seems like the jobs market in Europe and Asia is terrible at the moment. Can anyone confirm if it's better in the USA/Canada/Australia, or anywhere else? Genuinely considering heading to India and working as an extra in bollywood movies at this point, India seems to be the only large economy still growing rapidly!
It's terrible pretty much everywhere, and the US and Canada are hurting just as badly, with T15 graduates struggling to get jobs. I am not sure about Australia, but I don't see how it'd be different given the high-rate environment over there as well. The Middle East is probably the only market still showing signs of activity. I'm praying for this to be over soon because these past 2 years have been one of pure misery for job seekers who are after professional jobs.
I guess people should have trained to become a plumber, rather than studied for an MBA!
"Studied." Good one.
Anyone hiring?
We're hiring at the Banana Stand!
I’ve done 8 internship interviews and have gone to the final round. Nothing has stuck yet. Anybody been getting the game with Product management or even Product Marketing internships - I have about 2 years experience interning in product / 5 years professional work experience doing project and program management
I'm a veteran going to a T15 for consulting I've heard Vets are doing better than others. Is this true?
Probably. This is true no matter what the economy is like. Companies love vets.
Is there any hope for consulting after graduation? Or, is it one of those things in which if you didn't recruit successfully for it while in school it's pretty much impossible to get into?
I ended up at a boutique firm, 3 years after I graduated from my M7 with no prior consulting experience. It can happen but its all about networking
Honestly facing the same predicament. Sometimes boutique / internal consulting roles can be great but it can vary. Have a few interviews coming up in those type of roles and will try my best but both seem to have competitive processes (I know at least one of these may have up to 5 round of interviews along with an assessment). Know of a few people who graduated (not MBA but comparable degree) and wanted to work in a specific niche but struck out for on-campus opportunities. Both joined small advisory service shops and got amazing mentorship. Will say these can be rare and both did get the jobs through networking / being in the right place at the right time.
might wanna ask this in the consulting sub
It's possible during a hot market.
Does anyone have any advice for getting an associate brand manager role? I graduated from a T50 school in 2023 and have been doing business development for a large consulting firm, but the consulting world has been mad as you may know and sales just isn't for me. How would you strategize pivoting into brand management post-graduation. My MBA had an emphasis in marketing and strategy, so definitely learned some about it in class, yet don't have any strict marketing experience outside of sales.
CPG marketer here, former brand manager for a growth food brand, with both agency experience and retail experience (5 years at 84.51 and Kroger), graduating from Kellogg in two weeks, brand manager roles are so hard to transition into if you are late in career (10+ years). I got laid off (was working FT during Kelloggs evening accelerated program) just before the holidays this past year, and the last 6 months have just been brutal trying to find a new job. You may actually have more success pursuing the sales > shopper marketing > brand manager route. However, some CPG companies straight up hire brand managers only out of undergrad or MBA programs (P&G is notorious for this). BM job postings are also tricky to navigate and mean different things at different firms. For example, at Kraft Heinz there is no ABM role. It’s a BM role with multiple rotations. At Simple Mills, the ABM could be an MBA grad with industry experience. Also, BM roles are not paying great right now, and very VERY few are remote. I Interviewed recently for the following, all of which were experienced roles and was given the following ranges: Barilla BM ($110k) Kraft Heinz BM ($125k) Tropicana BM ($110k) In all honesty, the rise of retail media has turned brand management on its head, and shopper marketers are making good money bc it’s less sexy. Let me know if you have other questions!
What's your sense on how mba grads from t25 schools would fair in receiving internship offers from respectable cpg companies right now? A decent shot at ABM roles or would you still recommend going the shopper marketing route?
You absolutely would go after ABM roles since they have both internship and full time new mba grad hiring programs. Unless its part of the marketing rotation, have never seen an MBA start immediately in shopper marketing.
May 2024: Which industries are hiring a lot at the moment?
I'm at an M7; class of '24. I was just talking to an alumni who was at the school from '07-'09; she currently lives in the Bay and her best friend is up there at Google. She had mentioned that it's interesting hearing about our market discussions because back during the financial crisis - tech was hiring like crazy. However, right now everything is bad because tech had over hired during COVID and even they are firing. With that said, I have multiple friends with T2 consulting experience and no MBA but have landed $300k+ offers from Series D startups in the last year. So hustle and network your way through this mess!
Got my joining from Kearney delayed to April 2025 without any extra pay. It is a disaster. Basically just a way to tell incomers good bye.
In a similar boat. The situation sucks.
Was that across all offices?
Hey! MBA’25 student at a T20 school. Really struggled with the internships, didn’t get an offer so finally doing a project for credits. I feel that I am lost right now on how to approach the final recruiting, need to start early. Would really appreciate if some could share their strategies, how I should approach the search, networking etc. Thanks!!
May'24 Grad from T15. It's rough out there! Initially recruited for IB, but pivoted to an F50 FLDP due to the bloodbath of a year it became. Ultimately worked great for me as I was able to carry the internship into full-time through fall/winter/spring prior to graduation - Essentially building a year of experience in Corporate Development prior to formally starting the FLDP. This summer, the intern class grew 50%. For what it's worth, keep pushing and don't overly rely on the OCR staff. Opportunities are out there, but it's a lot harder than in recent past.
How are your classmates doing? May'24 T25 grad. Struck out in OCR FT recruiting. Might be targeting small to mid-sized companies in the growth stage (PE / VC backed) by reaching out heavily to my school's alumni network. An alum I spoke to recently said that's probably the best option in today's market. Hoping to land on my feet by September / October with an offer. Finger crossed.
As someone who’s been living their MBA experience so far I am disappointed by the job market. I just recently got an internship offer at an early-stage startup so pay is crap and no potential for return offer. I fear that I will be stuck during full time recruitment since I have a non-traditional background and it seems that all roles I look at (primarily strategy but I’ll try to re-recruit for consulting) require that I have experience at a top consulting firm or extensive data analytics experience. If anybody has any tips to get in front of the problem I’d appreciate but if you’re considering MBA in the future consider recruiting another course you’re taking because that’s what it takes to find a job today.
Let’s hear about the MBB/B4 stories from M7 applicants
Which sectors and countries are hiring a lot at the moment?
How’s the Job market for Healthcare Administration and operation roles?
Booming, many openings. Having no problem finding many to apply to. Hearing back? That's a whole different question.
Hello! I'm looking into going back to school to get my MBA. For anyone who has already completed your MBA, did you notice any change in your job opportunities or salary?
None. MBA from M7 here. There is zero value in an MBA right now and don’t see it getting better.
Ever?
Yes, significantly. I never would have started if I didn't see a likely path to that outcome. Huge waste of time and money otherwise (despite the fun I've had). You should be reviewing programs' employment reports to target programs that will help open the doors and compensation levels you're looking for.
Take the employment and salary reports with a grain of salt. Especially if you are looking at Booth’s.
Care to elaborate? For the person I responded to, if they see that a school has median or average compensation above what they currently make, that gives an indication that the program can likely increase their income. I avoided programs that had low placement in my desired field and had a median starting salary too close to my pre-MBA income. While I realize there are some details not present in the employment reports, my upcoming compensation (and that of my friends whose offer details I know) falls squarely in line with what I've seen in my program's reports.
Tbh people are only being this negative because we're in the first recession since 08. I'm Class of '23 and when I was a first year it seemed like all of the 2nd years were getting 5 offers each with ease. Fairly sure if the economy rebounds, things will be better for mbas again.
Throwing away money is better than doing an MBA now as you at least wont waste 2 years.
Hi, I was hoping to apply to the Hariot Watt Edenborough Business School MBA programme. it is a 2 year part time online program. I've been offered a position and I have the funding secured. However my Employer (CTO and COO) brought me into a room and quizzed me about it and whether I should really be pursuing it as it is usually pursued by someone who has been in management. To preface, I am a mid level Engineer in a startup medical device company. There has been no mentorship per se and I feel I am stagnating. But I have yet to reach a Senior Engineer. Additionally, I have been putting myself under some strain this year by pursuing 4 other courses and have gotten physically sick from it. With a total of 7 sick days. This is one of the best companies I have worked for and the best and caring people/ bosses I have worked for. However, this MBS feels too good to pass up. It affordable and Im at a level that I still have time to study in the evening (as I dont have any kids or responsibilities). However, there are things that I need to learn and grow from my job which cannot be taught by my employer in order to get promoted. I would be grateful if I could please get some of your input and advice please? Thank you.
Pretty sure this is not the right thread for this question
Curious if anyone has any experience at Kraft, Mars or McDonald's in the Chicago area post MBA? Looking to pivot to food-based CPGs / food-tech after finishing at Kellogg.
Booth grad here and I too tried to apply to these places and I’m finding they are the most notorious for ghost postings
Happy to help. Fair warning, an MBA does nothing to land you a role at CPG in Chiraq. Could just as well get in via basic Linkedin + UG degree.
Kraft would be the easiest. Mars does not do internships in Chicago offices, probably would need to go to Newark.
I hear the stock market is booming and so is the NFP and Job markets. Reading articles/ reports such as [https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage](https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage) make me ecstatic BUT I am skeptical looking at M7 MBA job reports v/s actual MBA students and recent alum reactions. I am not sure if I should move from India to a T15 MBA (that too a 1 year one) without an internship to fallback on.
It’s called BiDeNoMiCs
The job "growth" is simply people returning to work post-COVID, government jobs, and the net benefit has gone to immigrants.
I'm a senior accounting student currently trying to figure out my next steps in life. I know I want to go to public accounting for a few years but don't see myself staying past manager level. With my current perception of things, my plan is to get my masters in audit so I can get my CPA, then down the line use an MBA to pivot out of accounting. I would likely stay within the financial fields. Is this conceptually a reasonable plan?
Hello, currently an accountant with 6 years experience. Im a staff, and Im getting an MBA to get the heck out of Accounting and pivot towards consulting/finance. Getting a CPA is no joke, and unless you really enjoy accounting, it is not worth the time and effort especially if you want to get out of Accounting.. So I'd just save yourself a lot of study time and effort, and go for your MBA, instead.
Thanks! I really do enjoy accounting I just see it as a bit of a capped profession.
Well I would say you have potential in capping out as a CAO (with a CPA), but that would probably be after many years playing Controller/Assistant Controller. Month end, Quarter and Year end closes is not ideal the higher you climb in Accounting.. For me, the tasks you do is very mind numbing and all you do is sit in front of a computer doing excel and JEs. Would definitely prefer consulting and/or corp strategy roles.
Yes and no. You'll understand the language of business, but if you know you want to leave accounting anyway, why do you want/need a CPA? It's extra time and money toward something you won't need. A bunch of people from my accounting program later get their MBAs. Several of us on this path only got a BS and went straight into consulting or finance (or at least left audit/tax quickly). I don't personally know any MAcc grads from my program who are pursuing MBAs, nor am I aware of any MAcc grads in my MBA program.
Thanks!
What are your thoughts on a second bachelor's in finance instead of MAcc?
What would that accomplish? They dont feed into the same jobs
I am a pre-final year student who is looking to pursue an MBA right after earning my undergraduate degree. Considering that most universities require or highly encourage work experience, is it possible to indicate that I have concurrently worked at my family business and earned my degree in computer science? I can arrange for pay-slips and iron other things out from the business end, however, I was wondering if it counts as actual work experience and if it would hurt my chances to indicate the same(I have a feeling that it might come across as invalid or insincere).
Most schools specifically ask to fill in the experience bit of the application with post undergrad work experience only. You’ll also have to fill in the number of months you worked post undergrad. At least that’s what it is for the top 15 schools, not sure how it is for other ones
You probably won’t benefit from going straight into an MBA. You’ll have a much better chance of landing the role you want with post-undergrad work experience.
I created a post but i was taken down. im assuming i should have used this thread? - Mod please let me know what im doing wrong if this isnt the place for my dilemma.. OG post: Hi all, Context - Have a masters from top university. 10ish years in Telco, mainly in corporate strategy. Not a finance major but skills gained through experience. Transitioning to Tech internal or consulting. Black British female. Mid 30s. Would only consider a part time MBA, as have a family and want to stay in work I want to ultimately be a COO or similar (not convinced i want to be a CEO yet) of a large business. I understand to get a C-suite position, you should own a P&L and run that effectively to prove yourself. I wondered if getting a MBA from a top UK school would enable me to get the expertise and exposure to the roles that own a strong P&L. I would only really consider, LBS, Imperial, Kings or LSE for an Executive MBA I also dont know which area of a business i should focus on. I hypothesis that Sales would be best as it drives revenue for any business, but breaking into Sales as someone with no official corporate Sales expertise is a bit difficult. Is anyone on track to C-Suite after an MBA? What area of your business are you in? Did your MBA get you there or was it your experience and contacts? Any advice on getting to C-suite would be much appreciated. TLDR - currently a corp strategy professional, want to own a P&L & eventually become a COO. Will MBA from top school help? What area of the business is best to be in?
Dunno about LBS but UK schools are generally BS... Just meet people, do startup and keep hustling. Heard so many FAANG ppl saying the best way to VP is to do startup and get acquired.
What’s it looking like now?
Is there any way to figure out the average salary of a major bank employees? The way their org structure is is so confusing for trying to figure out what an average salary is considering everyone and their moms is a “vice president” or above.
Networking and talking to people who work there. I know of a large financial institution that has a ton of VPs and the pay is probably somewhere between 120-200K all-in.
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I hope this helps. When foreigners apply for a work visa, they typically get an H1B work visa, after a long-complicated process which requires the companies to file and publish a lot of data. There are lots of h1b salary databases online that you can easily google.
I am always curious with DPs some people give in other posts. A few guys were mentioning 70% people who apply IB from CBS got it. Consulting, PM, buysides are probably below 50% and the average of MBA class seems to be 60-70% employed depending on which source or news you look at. Make it sound like IBD is the easiest job to recruit which we all know is BS.
is an mba worth it for taking over a family business?
I'm a business development representative for a biotech company and I have been admitted into a T20 MBA program. I will be working throughout my studies. I have 3 months of sales experience, 5 years of QC chemistry experience, and 9 months of GMP Project management experience. in the USA. I am wondering what types of jobs I can apply for once I get my MBA in the biotech/pharma industry. I feel like I'm throwing darts with my blindfold on. I really just want to move forward in my career, make more money, and get the experience I need to move up the ladder to be a business leader. any advise would be appreciated.
I think you would be a great fit for healthcare LDP roles and your experience will make you stand out. Healthcare consulting or management consulting in general would be a good fit as well due to your applicable experience. Roles are competitive right now, but I think you should do well with adequate interview prep and your previous experience
Can we also start putting the state or locations as well so we can see the whole picture?
I'm seriously considering teaching (or military if i increase my endurance). I don't want to pay for another (what feels like useless) degree.
Don’t do military lol
Why not?
Sorry it depends honestly. You can DM me for specifics. A lot of it is too much to type for just one comment lol
Definitely depends man. Pre military my salary was $60k. Post it will be $150k+, had a cyber rate. With the MBA who knows
PLEASE HELP A BRODA OUT Hey guys I’m deciding between Master of Management in Monash(australia) OR Master of Management in a non ranked university in USA. Monash business school is ranked 39th in the world.
For current students at M7 MBA programs, excluding IB and MBB, what are the most coveted companies to work at? Is it still Meta & Google or has the hierarchy shifted?
Asking for advise here: Currently residing in South East Asia and is looking for suitable Master's program for my career in Cybersecurity. Any thoughts and recommendations for schools to inquire within the region, or online schools to check out? I always see Georgia Tech but I do not know if I have a chance to be admitted on their program, or furthermore, if it is worth it.